[DeTomaso] Which axles on which side?

Guido deTomaso guido_detomaso at prodigy.net
Fri May 27 14:24:20 EDT 2016


Late to this party.
Pretty hard to imagine skidding to a stop and having the left side lug nuts spin off because of angular momentum, the hub stopped but the lugs kept spinning.  Similarly hard to imagine the lightweight Pantera axle nut continuing to spin even if not tightened since it has a friction feature.  Any fastener tightened at all is going to produce enough friction to be impervious to angular momentum / angular velocity changes.
The self-tightening phenomenon is somewhat easy to predict where there's a rotating load and a thread.  A bicycle pedal is a good example, if you can visualize the weight of the rider's foot going around a loose thread, visualize the male thread of the pedal shaft "walking" around the female thread of the crank arm, you may be able to predict which side will be self-tightening with a LH thread.
Similarly British car knock off caps, if the hubs are put on the wrong side of the car, or the car is towed backwards, good chance the wheels will fall off, hasn't happened to me but I've heard several 1st person accounts.  Again if you look at the weight of the car, visualize it walking around the thread, you can predict that the right side of the car will get the LH thread.  ( Hit the top of the knock off toward the rear of the car to tighten ).  LH threaded lug nuts, still used I believe on heavy-duty trucks, same principle.
Other times reverse thread seems to be there only in case of catastrophe: Witness every VW and Porsche I'm aware of, they put a LH thread on the left side front spindle.  Now this has no weight on the thread ... in order for the nut to want to turn, first the outside bearing would have to start spinning on the spindle, then the d-shape washer would have to fail, and the cotter pin or clamping feature would have to fail, ONLY THEN the reverse thread would save the day, until the heat build up snaps the spindle anyway.
On the Pantera ... I don't see any path for the weight of the car to walk around the thread of the axle nut ... maybe it's there but I can't see it.  However if under acceleration the flange spline failed, the nuts would tighten if they followed the flange, yes ?  Perhaps this is the only reason for the handed thread in this application.
Or so it seems to me, I could be wrong.
GD


      From: B Hower via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
 To: Vinh Ly <vinh.d.ly at gmail.com>; Larry Stock <larrys at panteraparts.com> 
Cc: Mike Drew <MikeLDrew at aol.com>; "detomaso at detomasolist.com" <detomaso at detomasolist.com>
 Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2016 12:44 PM
 Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Which axles on which side?
   

  You would probably never notice a problem.
  Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow -- for there may not be
  ! )
    __________________________________________________________________

  From: Vinh Ly <vinh.d.ly at gmail.com>
  To: Larry Stock <larrys at panteraparts.com>
  Cc: Mike Drew <MikeLDrew at aol.com>; detomaso at detomasolist.com
  Sent: Friday, May 20, 2016 12:56 PM
  Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Which axles on which side?
    Question, what would be the ramifications if the axles were
  incorrectly
    installed on the wrong side?
    Thanks,
    Vinh Ly
    #7445
    On Fri, May 20, 2016 at 1:48 PM, Larry Stock
    <[1][1]larrys at panteraparts.com> wrote:
      S= Sinestro or Left (the Sinister hand that holds the sword when
      dueling
      with the Romans) that goes on the Left side (drivers side)
      Mike, you win the prize for getting this one correct
      Larry
      On 5/20/16, 10:33 AM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Mike Drew via
  DeTomaso"
      <[2][2]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com on behalf of
    [3][3]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
    >Hi guys,
    >
    >I thought I would lead off with he first technical question on the
  new
    >forum.
    >
    >The rear axles are marked S and D, for 'left' and 'right'
    respectively.
    >But that speaks to the thread direction (one of them is reverse
    thread,
    >left to tighten)
    >
    >It's my belief that the S or left-tighten axle goes on the left side
    of
    >the car but I can't remember for sure. Can somebody confirm or deny?
    >
    >Thanks!
    >
    >And welcome back!
    >
    >Mike
    >
    >Sent from my iPhone
    >_______________________________________________
    >
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  etc.)
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    >the links above.
    >
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-------------- next part --------------
   Late to this party.
   Pretty hard to imagine skidding to a stop and having the left side lug
   nuts spin off because of angular momentum, the hub stopped but the lugs
   kept spinning.  Similarly hard to imagine the lightweight Pantera axle
   nut continuing to spin even if not tightened since it has a friction
   feature.  Any fastener tightened at all is going to produce enough
   friction to be impervious to angular momentum / angular velocity
   changes.
   The self-tightening phenomenon is somewhat easy to predict where
   there's a rotating load and a thread.  A bicycle pedal is a good
   example, if you can visualize the weight of the rider's foot going
   around a loose thread, visualize the male thread of the pedal shaft
   "walking" around the female thread of the crank arm, you may be able to
   predict which side will be self-tightening with a LH thread.
   Similarly British car knock off caps, if the hubs are put on the wrong
   side of the car, or the car is towed backwards, good chance the wheels
   will fall off, hasn't happened to me but I've heard several 1st person
   accounts.  Again if you look at the weight of the car, visualize it
   walking around the thread, you can predict that the right side of the
   car will get the LH thread.  ( Hit the top of the knock off toward the
   rear of the car to tighten ).  LH threaded lug nuts, still used I
   believe on heavy-duty trucks, same principle.
   Other times reverse thread seems to be there only in case of
   catastrophe: Witness every VW and Porsche I'm aware of, they put a LH
   thread on the left side front spindle.  Now this has no weight on the
   thread ... in order for the nut to want to turn, first the outside
   bearing would have to start spinning on the spindle, then the d-shape
   washer would have to fail, and the cotter pin or clamping feature would
   have to fail, ONLY THEN the reverse thread would save the day, until
   the heat build up snaps the spindle anyway.
   On the Pantera ... I don't see any path for the weight of the car to
   walk around the thread of the axle nut ... maybe it's there but I can't
   see it.  However if under acceleration the flange spline failed, the
   nuts would tighten if they followed the flange, yes ?  Perhaps this is
   the only reason for the handed thread in this application.
   Or so it seems to me, I could be wrong.
   GD
     __________________________________________________________________

   From: B Hower via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
   To: Vinh Ly <vinh.d.ly at gmail.com>; Larry Stock
   <larrys at panteraparts.com>
   Cc: Mike Drew <MikeLDrew at aol.com>; "detomaso at detomasolist.com"
   <detomaso at detomasolist.com>
   Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2016 12:44 PM
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Which axles on which side?
     You would probably never notice a problem.
     Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow -- for there may not
   be
     ! )
       __________________________________________________________________
     From: Vinh Ly <[1]vinh.d.ly at gmail.com>
     To: Larry Stock <[2]larrys at panteraparts.com>
     Cc: Mike Drew <[3]MikeLDrew at aol.com>; [4]detomaso at detomasolist.com
     Sent: Friday, May 20, 2016 12:56 PM
     Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Which axles on which side?
       Question, what would be the ramifications if the axles were
     incorrectly
       installed on the wrong side?
       Thanks,
       Vinh Ly
       #7445
       On Fri, May 20, 2016 at 1:48 PM, Larry Stock
       <[1][1][5]larrys at panteraparts.com> wrote:
         S= Sinestro or Left (the Sinister hand that holds the sword when
         dueling
         with the Romans) that goes on the Left side (drivers side)
         Mike, you win the prize for getting this one correct
         Larry
         On 5/20/16, 10:33 AM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Mike Drew via
     DeTomaso"
         <[2][2][6]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com on behalf of
       [3][3][7]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
       >Hi guys,
       >
       >I thought I would lead off with he first technical question on the
     new
       >forum.
       >
       >The rear axles are marked S and D, for 'left' and 'right'
       respectively.
       >But that speaks to the thread direction (one of them is reverse
       thread,
       >left to tighten)
       >
       >It's my belief that the S or left-tighten axle goes on the left
   side
       of
       >the car but I can't remember for sure. Can somebody confirm or
   deny?
       >
       >Thanks!
       >
       >And welcome back!
       >
       >Mike
       >
       >Sent from my iPhone
       >_______________________________________________
       >
       >Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
       >Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
       >DeTomaso mailing list
       >[4][4][8]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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       >
       >To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
     etc.)
       use
       >the links above.
       >
       _______________________________________________
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References

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   4. mailto:detomaso at detomasolist.com
   5. mailto:larrys at panteraparts.com
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