[DeTomaso] Which axles on which side?
Guido deTomaso
guido_detomaso at prodigy.net
Fri May 27 14:24:20 EDT 2016
Late to this party.
Pretty hard to imagine skidding to a stop and having the left side lug nuts spin off because of angular momentum, the hub stopped but the lugs kept spinning. Similarly hard to imagine the lightweight Pantera axle nut continuing to spin even if not tightened since it has a friction feature. Any fastener tightened at all is going to produce enough friction to be impervious to angular momentum / angular velocity changes.
The self-tightening phenomenon is somewhat easy to predict where there's a rotating load and a thread. A bicycle pedal is a good example, if you can visualize the weight of the rider's foot going around a loose thread, visualize the male thread of the pedal shaft "walking" around the female thread of the crank arm, you may be able to predict which side will be self-tightening with a LH thread.
Similarly British car knock off caps, if the hubs are put on the wrong side of the car, or the car is towed backwards, good chance the wheels will fall off, hasn't happened to me but I've heard several 1st person accounts. Again if you look at the weight of the car, visualize it walking around the thread, you can predict that the right side of the car will get the LH thread. ( Hit the top of the knock off toward the rear of the car to tighten ). LH threaded lug nuts, still used I believe on heavy-duty trucks, same principle.
Other times reverse thread seems to be there only in case of catastrophe: Witness every VW and Porsche I'm aware of, they put a LH thread on the left side front spindle. Now this has no weight on the thread ... in order for the nut to want to turn, first the outside bearing would have to start spinning on the spindle, then the d-shape washer would have to fail, and the cotter pin or clamping feature would have to fail, ONLY THEN the reverse thread would save the day, until the heat build up snaps the spindle anyway.
On the Pantera ... I don't see any path for the weight of the car to walk around the thread of the axle nut ... maybe it's there but I can't see it. However if under acceleration the flange spline failed, the nuts would tighten if they followed the flange, yes ? Perhaps this is the only reason for the handed thread in this application.
Or so it seems to me, I could be wrong.
GD
From: B Hower via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
To: Vinh Ly <vinh.d.ly at gmail.com>; Larry Stock <larrys at panteraparts.com>
Cc: Mike Drew <MikeLDrew at aol.com>; "detomaso at detomasolist.com" <detomaso at detomasolist.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2016 12:44 PM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Which axles on which side?
You would probably never notice a problem.
Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow -- for there may not be
! )
__________________________________________________________________
From: Vinh Ly <vinh.d.ly at gmail.com>
To: Larry Stock <larrys at panteraparts.com>
Cc: Mike Drew <MikeLDrew at aol.com>; detomaso at detomasolist.com
Sent: Friday, May 20, 2016 12:56 PM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Which axles on which side?
Question, what would be the ramifications if the axles were
incorrectly
installed on the wrong side?
Thanks,
Vinh Ly
#7445
On Fri, May 20, 2016 at 1:48 PM, Larry Stock
<[1][1]larrys at panteraparts.com> wrote:
S= Sinestro or Left (the Sinister hand that holds the sword when
dueling
with the Romans) that goes on the Left side (drivers side)
Mike, you win the prize for getting this one correct
Larry
On 5/20/16, 10:33 AM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Mike Drew via
DeTomaso"
<[2][2]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com on behalf of
[3][3]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
>Hi guys,
>
>I thought I would lead off with he first technical question on the
new
>forum.
>
>The rear axles are marked S and D, for 'left' and 'right'
respectively.
>But that speaks to the thread direction (one of them is reverse
thread,
>left to tighten)
>
>It's my belief that the S or left-tighten axle goes on the left side
of
>the car but I can't remember for sure. Can somebody confirm or deny?
>
>Thanks!
>
>And welcome back!
>
>Mike
>
>Sent from my iPhone
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>
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-------------- next part --------------
Late to this party.
Pretty hard to imagine skidding to a stop and having the left side lug
nuts spin off because of angular momentum, the hub stopped but the lugs
kept spinning. Similarly hard to imagine the lightweight Pantera axle
nut continuing to spin even if not tightened since it has a friction
feature. Any fastener tightened at all is going to produce enough
friction to be impervious to angular momentum / angular velocity
changes.
The self-tightening phenomenon is somewhat easy to predict where
there's a rotating load and a thread. A bicycle pedal is a good
example, if you can visualize the weight of the rider's foot going
around a loose thread, visualize the male thread of the pedal shaft
"walking" around the female thread of the crank arm, you may be able to
predict which side will be self-tightening with a LH thread.
Similarly British car knock off caps, if the hubs are put on the wrong
side of the car, or the car is towed backwards, good chance the wheels
will fall off, hasn't happened to me but I've heard several 1st person
accounts. Again if you look at the weight of the car, visualize it
walking around the thread, you can predict that the right side of the
car will get the LH thread. ( Hit the top of the knock off toward the
rear of the car to tighten ). LH threaded lug nuts, still used I
believe on heavy-duty trucks, same principle.
Other times reverse thread seems to be there only in case of
catastrophe: Witness every VW and Porsche I'm aware of, they put a LH
thread on the left side front spindle. Now this has no weight on the
thread ... in order for the nut to want to turn, first the outside
bearing would have to start spinning on the spindle, then the d-shape
washer would have to fail, and the cotter pin or clamping feature would
have to fail, ONLY THEN the reverse thread would save the day, until
the heat build up snaps the spindle anyway.
On the Pantera ... I don't see any path for the weight of the car to
walk around the thread of the axle nut ... maybe it's there but I can't
see it. However if under acceleration the flange spline failed, the
nuts would tighten if they followed the flange, yes ? Perhaps this is
the only reason for the handed thread in this application.
Or so it seems to me, I could be wrong.
GD
__________________________________________________________________
From: B Hower via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
To: Vinh Ly <vinh.d.ly at gmail.com>; Larry Stock
<larrys at panteraparts.com>
Cc: Mike Drew <MikeLDrew at aol.com>; "detomaso at detomasolist.com"
<detomaso at detomasolist.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2016 12:44 PM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Which axles on which side?
You would probably never notice a problem.
Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow -- for there may not
be
! )
__________________________________________________________________
From: Vinh Ly <[1]vinh.d.ly at gmail.com>
To: Larry Stock <[2]larrys at panteraparts.com>
Cc: Mike Drew <[3]MikeLDrew at aol.com>; [4]detomaso at detomasolist.com
Sent: Friday, May 20, 2016 12:56 PM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Which axles on which side?
Question, what would be the ramifications if the axles were
incorrectly
installed on the wrong side?
Thanks,
Vinh Ly
#7445
On Fri, May 20, 2016 at 1:48 PM, Larry Stock
<[1][1][5]larrys at panteraparts.com> wrote:
S= Sinestro or Left (the Sinister hand that holds the sword when
dueling
with the Romans) that goes on the Left side (drivers side)
Mike, you win the prize for getting this one correct
Larry
On 5/20/16, 10:33 AM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Mike Drew via
DeTomaso"
<[2][2][6]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com on behalf of
[3][3][7]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
>Hi guys,
>
>I thought I would lead off with he first technical question on the
new
>forum.
>
>The rear axles are marked S and D, for 'left' and 'right'
respectively.
>But that speaks to the thread direction (one of them is reverse
thread,
>left to tighten)
>
>It's my belief that the S or left-tighten axle goes on the left
side
of
>the car but I can't remember for sure. Can somebody confirm or
deny?
>
>Thanks!
>
>And welcome back!
>
>Mike
>
>Sent from my iPhone
>_______________________________________________
>
>Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
>Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>DeTomaso mailing list
>[4][4][8]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>[5][5][9]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
>To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
etc.)
use
>the links above.
>
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