[DeTomaso] State of POCA address

Will Kooiman will.kooiman at gmail.com
Sun May 22 19:32:18 EDT 2016


Hi Guys,

If it isn¹t still relevant, please drop it and move on.  I¹m specifically
referring to the discussion about MS purging archived e-mail.  Basically,
it doesn¹t matter anymore.  Okay to discuss in private, but not a good
idea in public.

If the survey is being used to make decisions about the direction of the
club, it should be handled just like an election.  Include the survey in
the newsletter, let the entire board compose the questions/responses, etc.
 Many of the questions are valid and important.  There are only 4 or 5
that are extremely biased.

I forwarded the survey to this list, but it probable only works from my
e-mail.

I have attached it as a PDF, and here it is in text:

1. I fully support the direction the club is headed in under the new
President and the progressive  BOD members.who support moving the club
forward.

Absolutely, the change was long over due, I can already see the difference.
Not at all, please stop improving things and leave it alone.

2. Should those reluctant to change accept it or step aside?

Yes
No

3. Is it important to you that the club save money whenever possible?

Yes
No

4. The POCA monthly newsletter consumes 55% of the club's net revenue, I
feel..

I like the printed newsletter that we have now, even if it costs $8000
more to get Black and White
I like a printed newsletter and I would like a FULL COLOR printed
newsletter and Profiles even more.
Use the money for other projects, let's get with the 21st century, save
trees and put the newsletter online already.
What newsletter and What Profiles, I haven't received either one in years.


5. Do you feel the club should be Chapter Driven?

Yes
No

6. Do you support a $10 dues increase to retain a printed newsletter?

Yes
No

7. Do you feel that Rally events should be Chapter hosted and rotate?

Yes
No?


8. Have you visited the new website, if so, first impression?

Have not seen it
Loved it
No better than the old website.
Hated it

9. Do you feel positive change is possible within POCA?

Yes
No

10. In the email, the phrase "POCA Membership Experience" was used several
times, how do you feel yours has been in the last 5 months?

Awesome
Getting better with each new update
Remains the same as it always was
I feel it is getting worse as a result of changes
I'm ready to quit and I probably will not renew

11. Have you experienced an issue receiving a Profiles, newsletter or
email?

Yes
No?

12. Have you paid your dues but you are still getting a late notice?

Yes
No

13. Have you expereinced issues in the past with a membership dues check
taking a very long time to clear your bank?

Yes
No

14. How do you feel about tastefully placed ad or feature spaces in the
Newsletter and Profiles

I hate features and ads
I like ads and features, they help keep me informed.
I want to know which vendors to support and i'll buy from those who
support my club

15. Did you realize there was chaos was going on behind the scenes?

I had no idea
I heard a little about it
I knew and chose to ignore it
It is ruining my membership experience, make it stop.

16. A survey like this one seems like an extreme measure, do you feelŠ

It was inevitable, tension between long term members and newer members has
been building for years
newer members are the future of the club and should be the ones making
decisions
long term members built the club and should be able to do whatever that
want
I suspect the club will dwindle down to so few members that it will go
defunct


17. In the final analysis, I feel this situation will be resolved because

this survey will spell it out for everyone and appropriate actions will be
taken
those who are passionate about working for the club will just quit because
of the turmoil
the club will revert to what it was before, this was an experiment that
failed
those working for progressive change will eventually succeed


18. If the only way to stop a problem person is to remove them as a
member, I feel

That is never an acceptable option
It's unfortunate it would have to go that far, but I would support it
We have a lot of work to do and there is no room for troublemakers, glad
to see them gone
What are we waiting for ...NEXT.


19. Please post your comments here if you have anything of value to add to
the conversation.

I have nothing to contribute
I have no idea where to begin
Check Please!
Other (please specify)


20. The State of the Club email which went out earlier mentioned 4
Regional Rallies called NEWS ( North, East, West and South) Do you like
the idea of all POCA members having the same opportunity to enjoy a
gathering like the 35 year old Fun Rally, but closer to home so more can
participate?

Yes, all members are entitled to the same membership experiences, let's
drive and party on all four corners of the USA.
Nope, The Fun Rally should be the only event, the club started in
California, they need to come to us.


21. BONUS QUESTION:  2021 will be the 50th anniversary of the 1971
Pantera, a proposal not yet released would call for a Central USA Location
(Oklahoma, Texas, Kansas) Giant DeTomaso Celebration, planning for an
event such as this would take years.  It would last 4-5 days and include
track days, racing, autocross, shows, banquets, entertainment, Rally
drives and more, I thinkŠ.

Great Idea, let's announce it and start a preliminary planning committee
It's an OK idea, but I think it should be near my home instead
I have no interest in this idea and I would never attend it anyway.
Oh Look, something shiny......  ;-)

Done





On 5/22/16, 6:35 PM, "DeTomaso on behalf of James coyne"
<detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com on behalf of
tecnosound at hotmail.com> wrote:

>   Asa Jay , Are you aware that that on 5/18/16 Micheal Shortt , in
>   response to a comment about the Detomaso Mailing list archives on the
>   new POCA webste , stated that he was working on having them "purged" so
>   that we (he) doesnt " look like a bunch of grumpy old men " ? Are you
>   aware also that currently the archives have indeed been purged of any
>   posts deemed by Micheal Shortt to make himself look bad including his
>   racist comments about African Americans ?
>   > Date: Sun, 22 May 2016 13:49:39 -0700
>   > From: asajay at asajay.com
>   > To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>   > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] State of POCA address
>   >
>   > Something that might be dug up in the archives...
>   > When a certain someone was granted access to the old POCA server as a
>   > newly board appointed administrator, one of the first things they
>   tried
>   > to do was remove disparaging posts from the email forum that they had
>   > made regarding a Pantera Vendor. And I mean these were nasty posts.
>   > That person had since reconciled the issue and now wanted to remove
>   the
>   > posts. They eventually contacted me and I essentially told them "once
>   > on the internet... always on the internet." And in reality, it's
>   > extremely difficult to remove a post from Mailman, especially when
>   it's
>   > more than just a day or so old.
>   > I seem to recall another certain someone who also works with the
>   > aforementioned someone, who also asked for specific posts to be
>   removed
>   > from the archives sometime prior to last year's POCA election. I
>   might
>   > have that slightly wrong so don't hold me to it. I'd have to go back
>   > through my persona emails which now number just over 16,000. Yes, for
>   > those who have been counting (not that anybody has) that's down from
>   > nearly 20,000 a couple years ago. ;)
>   > I myself have made some not so flattering remarks in the past, and
>   I'm
>   > sure you can find them in the archives. And you can also find where
>   > I've made amends when it was pointed out or I came to my senses on my
>   > own.
>   > Asa Jay
>   > Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
>   > & Shelley Marie
>   > Spokane, WA
>   > ******************************
>   > [1]http://w7tsc.org
>   > [2]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
>   >
>   > On 5/22/2016 10:31 AM, Kurt Byrnes wrote:
>   >
>   > Excellent point Sean. Please keep things in prospective and remember
>   > many services potentially crawl the list and archives so anything you
>   > write, any person you disparage, etc. are potentially saved for the
>   > world to see and google.
>   > I'm CERTAIN the POCA BOD is doing what it thinks is best for the
>   club.
>   > There are many valid changes they're trying to institute. You or I
>   may
>   > agree or disagree with the changes and approach but PLEASE don't
>   write
>   > something naming specific people that you wouldn't want written about
>   > yourself. It's just a car club.
>   > Kurt
>   > On 5/22/2016 1:15 PM, Sean Korb wrote:
>   >
>   > Just a reminder, the email archives are public.A A I learned 30 years
>   > ago that local politics were not my thing except to occasionally hold
>   > my nose and vote, plus a little well placed snark :)A A I adore this
>   > list though so I'm not exactly pulling out a bucket of popcorn to
>   > watch.A Be sure not to be exclusive.A That is the real strength of
>   > this community.
>   > sean
>   >
>   > On Sun, May 22, 2016 at 12:50 PM, Julian Kift
>   > [1][3]<[1]julian_kift at hotmail.com> wrote:
>   >
>   > Well if you only send it to the people you know will provide a
>   > favorable response then the statistic become very useful as a
>   > mandate to continue ;-)
>   > ________________________________________
>   > From: DeTomaso [2][4]<[2]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on
>   > behalf of Mike Thomas [3][5]<[3]mbefthomas at comcast.net>
>   > Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2016 9:41 AM
>   > To: 'Forest Goodhart'; [[[6]4]4]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>   > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] State of POCA address
>   >
>   > Odd, seems I was not either.A Michael?
>   > Mike Thomas
>   > Pres., Panteras Northwest
>   > Yellow a74 #6328
>   > -----Original Message-----
>   > From: DeTomaso
>   [mailto:[[[7]5]5]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On
>   > Behalf Of Forest Goodhart
>   > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2016 4:46 PM
>   > To: [[[8]6]6]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>   > Subject: [DeTomaso] State of POCA address
>   > OK, I've now gotten several copies of the state address. No need to
>   > send me any more. Just wonder why I was not on the distribution list
>   > from POCA. Forest
>   > _______________________________________________
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>   > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
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>   > DeTomaso mailing list
>   > [[[11]9]9]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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>   > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
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>   >
>   > --
>   > Sean Korb [[[13]11]11]spkorb at spkorb.org
>   [12][12][14]http://www.spkorb.org
>   > '65,'68 Mustangs,'68 Cougar,'78 R100/7,'60 Metro,'59 A35,'71 Pantera
>   > #1382
>   > "The more you drive, the less intelligent you get" --Miller
>   > "Computers are useless.A They can only give you answers." -P. Picasso
>   >
>   > References
>   >
>   > 1. [13][15]mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
>   > 2. [14][16]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
>   > 3. [15][17]mailto:mbefthomas at comcast.net
>   > 4. [16][18]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>   > 5. [17][19]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
>   > 6. [18][20]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>   > 7. [19][21]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>   > 8. [20][22]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>   > 9. [21][23]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>   > 10. [22][24]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>   > 11. [23][25]mailto:spkorb at spkorb.org
>   > 12. [24][26]http://www.spkorb.org/
>   >
>   >
>   > _______________________________________________
>   >
>   > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
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>   > [[27]25]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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>   >
>   > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
>   use the li
>   > nks above.
>   >
>   > References
>   >
>   > 1. mailto:[[29]1]julian_kift at hotmail.com
>   > 2. mailto:[[30]2]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
>   > 3. mailto:[[31]3]mbefthomas at comcast.net
>   > 4. [32]mail[33]mailto:4]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>   > 5. [34]mail[35]mailto:5]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
>   > 6. [36]mail[37]mailto:6]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>   > 7. [38]mail[39]mailto:7]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>   > 8. [40]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>   > 9. [41]mail[42]mailto:9]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>   > 10. [43]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>   > 11. [44]mail[45]mailto:11]spkorb at spkorb.org
>   > 12. [46]http://www.spkorb.org/
>   > 13. [47]mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
>   > 14. [48]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
>   > 15. [49]mailto:mbefthomas at comcast.net
>   > 16. [50]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>   > 17. [51]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
>   > 18. [52]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>   > 19. [53]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>   > 20. [54]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>   > 21. [55]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>   > 22. [56]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>   > 23. [57]mailto:spkorb at spkorb.org
>   > 24. [58]http://www.spkorb.org/
>   > 25. [59]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>   > 26. [60]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   > _______________________________________________
>   >
>   > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
>   > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>   > DeTomaso mailing list
>   > [61]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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>   >
>   > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
>   use the li
>   > nks above.
>   >
>   >
>   > -----
>   > No virus found in this message.
>   > Checked by AVG - [63]www.avg.com
>   > Version: 2016.0.7597 / Virus Database: 4568/12278 - Release Date:
>   05/22/16
>   >
>   > References
>   >
>   > 1. http://w7tsc.org/
>   > 2. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
>   > 3. mailto:[1]julian_kift at hotmail.com
>   > 4. mailto:[2]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
>   > 5. mailto:[3]mbefthomas at comcast.net
>   > 6. mailto:4]4]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>   > 7. mailto:5]5]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
>   > 8. mailto:6]6]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>   > 9. mailto:7]7]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>   > 10. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>   > 11. mailto:9]9]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>   > 12. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>   > 13. mailto:11]11]spkorb at spkorb.org
>   > 14. http://www.spkorb.org/
>   > 15. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
>   > 16. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
>   > 17. mailto:mbefthomas at comcast.net
>   > 18. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>   > 19. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
>   > 20. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>   > 21. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>   > 22. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>   > 23. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>   > 24. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>   > 25. mailto:spkorb at spkorb.org
>   > 26. http://www.spkorb.org/
>   > 27. mailto:25]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>   > 28. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>   > 29. mailto:1]julian_kift at hotmail.com
>   > 30. mailto:2]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
>   > 31. mailto:3]mbefthomas at comcast.net
>   > 32. mailto:4
>   > 33. mailto:mailto:4]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>   > 34. mailto:5
>   > 35. mailto:mailto:5]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
>   > 36. mailto:6
>   > 37. mailto:mailto:6]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>   > 38. mailto:7
>   > 39. mailto:mailto:7]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>   > 40. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>   > 41. mailto:9
>   > 42. mailto:mailto:9]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>   > 43. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>   > 44. mailto:11
>   > 45. mailto:mailto:11]spkorb at spkorb.org
>   > 46. http://www.spkorb.org/
>   > 47. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
>   > 48. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
>   > 49. mailto:mbefthomas at comcast.net
>   > 50. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>   > 51. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
>   > 52. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>   > 53. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>   > 54. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>   > 55. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>   > 56. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>   > 57. mailto:spkorb at spkorb.org
>   > 58. http://www.spkorb.org/
>   > 59. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>   > 60. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>   > 61. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>   > 62. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>   > 63. http://www.avg.com/
>   > _______________________________________________
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