[DeTomaso] Coming POCA Registry
Peter Havlik
peterhavlik at me.com
Fri Mar 4 00:38:45 EST 2016
The documentation I have compiled on 9000 series Panteras remains available to POCA unconditionally. I have been doing this work purely as a hobby and to try to repay some of the help and wisdom I have received from others in the De Tomaso community over the years. Consequently, I would be pleased if my work was put to some constructive use to benefit everyone.
I periodically send all my data not only to POCA, but also to the other clubs that have been kind enough to provide their endorsement (which I find helpful when approaching suspicious/paranoid owners). These are PI, UK DTDC and the Svenska De Tomaso Klubben.
The data is a mass of emails, telephone conversation notes, and material pulled from the web. It contains 9000 photographs and 9.58GB of data. As such, it would be a nightmare of biblical proportions to try to sort out the copyright and privacy protection issues alone, not to mention synthesizing it all into standardized entries for each car. Therefore, it is not suitable for wide distribution and certainly not suitable for putting up on a web site.
By the way, I long ago incorporated all the website information from Ben Tyler’s QV500 registry as well as all the Bill Van Ess data into my database, so there should be no worry about the 9000 series information from those sources being lost.
I understand there is a debate about what a proper registry should be, and recognize that what I have done does not qualify. Nonetheless, my “registry" is of use and interest to anyone interested in where 9000 series cars are in the world, who owns them, what their provenance is, and what variations there were in factory equipment. It is, therefore, primarily a resource for historians.
Much or most of the work I have done cannot be duplicated. That is why I periodically send copies of everything to others for safe-keeping. I shudder to think what would happen if Chuck were hit by a bus because his work makes anything I have accomplished seem insignificant by comparison. Regardless of how this debate turns out, it is my hope that arrangements can be made to ensure Chuck's ProvaMo registry data will be preserved as a legacy for our marque.
I would urge POCA and the rest of the international De Tomaso community to work together to provide Chuck with whatever incentive he needs to ensure his work survives him and remains perpetually available.
- Peter Havlik
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 17:42:56 -0500
From: jderyke at aol.com <mailto:jderyke at aol.com>
To: detomaso at poca.com <mailto:detomaso at poca.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Coming POCA Registry
Message-ID: <153397f9606-3408-6015 at webprd-a87.mail.aol.com <mailto:153397f9606-3408-6015 at webprd-a87.mail.aol.com>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Let's keep in mind that there are now at least 3 Registries- Chuck's in N. California for DeTomasos, the post-Ford '9000-Series Pantera Registry' maintained by Peter Havlik in British Columbia and the 'Gr-3 Registry' maintained by Anders Hellberg in Sweden. Chuck's may overlap the others a little but all are essentially non-interfering. At one time, there were also a Mangusta Registry for those 402 cars, and I think I remember an informal one in So-Cal exclusively for the (maybe) 384 pushbutton Panteras. Both these last two disappeared years ago without fanfare. In the late '90s, Martin Kreici in Switzerland started a List of DeTomasos (mostly GR-4 & GT-4 Panteras, with serial numbers and drivers) known to be involved in sanctioned World Sportscar Racing, which I helped complete, but Martin no longer maintains this List. Fortunately, I have that one in my archives. Rene Killer at the DeTomaso Museum in Geneva also has an updated copy that I sent him.
There were at one point three more earlier DeTomaso Registries- the first known was Bill Van Ess (Michigan)'s original self-funded Registry dating from the early '90s, which I helped get started and which was then taken over by Bill Milburn of Texas until about year 2000, and one in England for mostly Euro DeTomasos run by Ben Tyle- once described as "The European Gary Hall". That website also quietly disappeared a few years ago. NONE of these Registries were ever adopted or sponsored by POCA or any big Clubs, except that I gave both Bill Van Ess and Bill Milburn years of free ads in the POCA Newsletter to try and get them more entries. Response was disappointing. And being one-man efforts not officially noticed or subsidized by POCA, PI or the DTDC in England, the maintainers all eventually got tired of paddling by themselves and folded.
What Michael Shortt is attempting to do is make sure that all the colllected info from the previous 25-or-so years is not once again lost. Being on-line, there are no known paper copies of most of the Lists past or present; Pater Havlik's 9000-series Pantera list on DVD (again, funded entirely by himself) is the exception. While Chuck has apparently done a decent job on his own, there's NO guarantee how long he will continue to host his offering, from his own billfold- note the recorded lifespan so far for self-run DeTomaso Registries is not good. Hence POCA is finally attempting to do something to preserve what knowledge all these people have collected. Escalating prices for the cars may be helping by focusing more attention on Panteras & Mangustas.
The main problem is, given the inordinate amount of work involved in keeping a List up to date, the 'owners' are reluctant to simply hand over their 'babies' to someone else for a smile and a handshake and step away. But IMHO, that's the only long-term solution. Another problem may be, some of these Lists have been copywrited so while individuals can obtain a single copy for personal use, organizations cannot.
J DeRyke
Message: 12
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 20:30:40 -0600
From: Jeff Detrich <jjdetrich at gmail.com <mailto:jjdetrich at gmail.com>>
To: Michael Shortt <michaelsavga at gmail.com <mailto:michaelsavga at gmail.com>>
Cc: scott black <timepiecepr2 at yahoo.com <mailto:timepiecepr2 at yahoo.com>>, detomaso at poca.com <mailto:detomaso at poca.com>,
"jderyke at aol.com <mailto:jderyke at aol.com>" <jderyke at aol.com <mailto:jderyke at aol.com>>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Coming POCA Registry
Message-ID:
<CANX29aWHr68_WojMsvE5Grff5kqVVcCYq_N=fJHgM8ziy=-zkg at mail.gmail.com <mailto:CANX29aWHr68_WojMsvE5Grff5kqVVcCYq_N=fJHgM8ziy=-zkg at mail.gmail.com>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
There was also the pushbutton registry and the qv500 registry for the later
cars.
For things that used to be on the internet, they still are courtesy of the
"wayback machine." http://archive.org/web/web.php <http://archive.org/web/web.php>
Take a look at this one http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://qv500.com <http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://qv500.com> -
I'd look circa 2010-11 for the best stuff.
https://web.archive.org/web/20110902134749/http://www.qv500.com/de-tomaso-registry/ <https://web.archive.org/web/20110902134749/http://www.qv500.com/de-tomaso-registry/>
<https://web.archive.org/web/20110902134749/http:/www.qv500.com/de-tomaso-registry/ <https://web.archive.org/web/20110902134749/http:/www.qv500.com/de-tomaso-registry/>>
The other really neat thing about this site is the descriptions and
pictures of many of the DeTomaso race cars. They would make an excellent
start to a section of the website to help document a big part of the
DeTomaso story.
https://web.archive.org/web/20110820194030/http://www.qv500.com/car-guide/de-tomaso/ <https://web.archive.org/web/20110820194030/http://www.qv500.com/car-guide/de-tomaso/>
<https://web.archive.org/web/20110820194030/http:/www.qv500.com/car-guide/de-tomaso/ <https://web.archive.org/web/20110820194030/http:/www.qv500.com/car-guide/de-tomaso/>>
I'm sure it wouldn't be too difficult to resurrect the pushbutton directory
as well.
And I'm kind of disappointed as I sent you all sorts of this kind of info
for the new website that apparently hasn't been looked at it. I know you've
been been busy but you really need to have someone who knows what they are
doing, not a tech guy but a really experienced Pantera guy, take charge of
the website. I get the sense it is going 150mph but without a roadmap. That
kind of development project is really dangerous. You may get something that
is technically proficient but sorely lacking in user friendliness, really
getting at user needs, and so forth. Kind of a waste; there was a lot of
good info in there, including ways on how to make the Registry work easily.
Oh well, no one's listening. See attached memo I sent you with the info.
I really have sympathy for you, however, it's really hard to find good
help, esp volunteer help. It's one of the reasons I think the Board needs
to be expanded to bring on some people whose main job it is to actually
bring the club forward. Right now, each board member but Vice President,
who doesn't really do anything, has a specific and time consuming job to
do. And one that they are doing very well, by the way. But there isn't
anyone for the other important stuff like the website/registry.
My 2cents worth, to quote Jack.
Message: 14
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 08:09:21 -0600
From: gow2 at rc-tech.net <mailto:gow2 at rc-tech.net>
To: "Jeff Detrich" <jjdetrich at gmail.com <mailto:jjdetrich at gmail.com>>
Cc: "Michael Shortt" <michaelsavga at gmail.com <mailto:michaelsavga at gmail.com>>, detomaso at poca.com <mailto:detomaso at poca.com>,
"jderyke at aol.com <mailto:jderyke at aol.com>" <jderyke at aol.com <mailto:jderyke at aol.com>>, "scott black"
<timepiecepr2 at yahoo.com <mailto:timepiecepr2 at yahoo.com>>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Coming POCA Registry
Message-ID:
<7f57a597b2f0cbb1a2a9a4c5ef38a74d.squirrel at sm.webmail.pair.com <mailto:7f57a597b2f0cbb1a2a9a4c5ef38a74d.squirrel at sm.webmail.pair.com>>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8
I think the first thing POCA needs to do is define what is a legitimate
registry. If the POCA wants to spend hours searching the internet for
information to load in the registry then I would not call it a registry.
There were about 7000 cars made so if POCA has 5000 entries it would be
more fiction then legit.
Pantera owners need a legitimate registry from a legitimate Pantera
organization to represent them. It should be a registration and not a
google-wikepedea document. I would not say that a site like that is not
valuable for investigative research but I would not call it a registry.
Making a legitimate registry is all about how the information is gathered.
Being represented by a key organization is key too. I would limit the
sources of information to come into the registry. The most valuable
information would be from those who chose to participate.
The information should be listed as "reported by owner as of date xyz". I
would allow very few other sources of information. If the Marti Report
allows you to copy their info then it would be referenced as "by the Marti
Report". I would only allow official information from say the DeTomaso
factory if found, perhaps Hall if he had a list of converted cars if they
could get that info from Bev, but that's about it. Even then if a car
shows information it's not registered.
There is a huge benefit from owners/cars who register their cars with
legitimate organization backed registries. The goal should NOT be 5000 of
the 7000 cars. That can only be fiction. If 500-1000 cars are in the
registry after several years, I would say that's a real accomplishment. It
will be a significant differentiator for cars and car owners if
legitimate.
I have 2 cars, #1905 and #1280. I have not entered them in any legitimate
registry which exist today. I live in a very rural Midwest town and I know
of half a dozen Panteras which are in no legitimate registry. If a
legitimate registry is created, and I enter it, lets say I sell the car
and the car ends up at an exotic dealership.
I bought one of my cars from an exotic dealership. I have done google
research and found the original owner but it's not an official record from
the original owner. Even if I found a copy of that info in a document
where they did the same google research there is nothing official about
it.
So I think the big question is, what makes an official legit registry that
POCA would put their name on? Anything less only muddies the marquee.
Having a non legit gogle-wikepedea type of site and calling it a registry
could really damage the brand.
Message: 15
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 09:39:30 -0500
From: Michael Shortt <michaelsavga at gmail.com <mailto:michaelsavga at gmail.com>>
To: GW <gow2 at rc-tech.net <mailto:gow2 at rc-tech.net>>
Cc: detomaso at poca.com <mailto:detomaso at poca.com>, "jderyke at aol.com <mailto:jderyke at aol.com>" <jderyke at aol.com <mailto:jderyke at aol.com>>, Jeff
Detrich <jjdetrich at gmail.com <mailto:jjdetrich at gmail.com>>, scott black <timepiecepr2 at yahoo.com <mailto:timepiecepr2 at yahoo.com>>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Coming POCA Registry
Message-ID:
<CAEWtxWqHXu5UeqNxo6ewn1YKYqDo-qb=QF2dEFfJWjQv_unjog at mail.gmail.com <mailto:CAEWtxWqHXu5UeqNxo6ewn1YKYqDo-qb=QF2dEFfJWjQv_unjog at mail.gmail.com>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Gary,
You are correct and have essentially modeled the Registry I will be
creating.
25-40 data points for the car as new plus 15-20 data points as the car
exists today as reported by the current owners.
The exact number of Panteras produced seems nebulous, yet we do know that
5,244 were imported by Ford.
> From MartiReports, I know yearly totals, colors, serial numbers and dates
for 150 cars.
The only kind of Registry that matters to me is one that is 100% correct
with verifiable, detailed content. We are not building this for ourselves
as much as we are for those in the future.
Sure it will be fun to see exactly when changes were made, right down to
the First car with the new seats, a ribbed decklid or the solid engine
screen. I'm sure bragging rights will come to many as we review the records
in the years to come.
I appreciate your grasp of a proper Registry.
Michael Shorttalexa
-------------- next part --------------
The documentation I have compiled on 9000 series Panteras remains
available to POCA unconditionally. I have been doing this work purely
as a hobby and to try to repay some of the help and wisdom I have
received from others in the De Tomaso community over the years.
Consequently, I would be pleased if my work was put to some
constructive use to benefit everyone.
I periodically send all my data not only to POCA, but also to the other
clubs that have been kind enough to provide their endorsement (which I
find helpful when approaching suspicious/paranoid owners). These are
PI, UK DTDC and the Svenska De Tomaso Klubben.
The data is a mass of emails, telephone conversation notes, and
material pulled from the web. It contains 9000 photographs and 9.58GB
of data. As such, it would be a nightmare of biblical proportions to
try to sort out the copyright and privacy protection issues alone, not
to mention synthesizing it all into standardized entries for each car.
Therefore, it is not suitable for wide distribution and certainly not
suitable for putting up on a web site.
By the way, I long ago incorporated all the website information from
Ben Tyler's QV500 registry as well as all the Bill Van Ess data into my
database, so there should be no worry about the 9000 series information
from those sources being lost.
I understand there is a debate about what a proper registry should be,
and recognize that what I have done does not qualify. Nonetheless, my
"registry" is of use and interest to anyone interested in where 9000
series cars are in the world, who owns them, what their provenance is,
and what variations there were in factory equipment. It is, therefore,
primarily a resource for historians.
Much or most of the work I have done cannot be duplicated. That is why
I periodically send copies of everything to others for safe-keeping. I
shudder to think what would happen if Chuck were hit by a bus because
his work makes anything I have accomplished seem insignificant by
comparison. Regardless of how this debate turns out, it is my hope that
arrangements can be made to ensure Chuck's ProvaMo registry data will
be preserved as a legacy for our marque.
I would urge POCA and the rest of the international De Tomaso community
to work together to provide Chuck with whatever incentive he needs to
ensure his work survives him and remains perpetually available.
- Peter Havlik
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 17:42:56 -0500
From: [1]jderyke at aol.com
To: [2]detomaso at poca.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Coming POCA Registry
Message-ID: <[3]153397f9606-3408-6015 at webprd-a87.mail.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Let's keep in mind that there are now at least 3 Registries- Chuck's in
N. California for DeTomasos, the post-Ford '9000-Series Pantera
Registry' maintained by Peter Havlik in British Columbia and the 'Gr-3
Registry' maintained by Anders Hellberg in Sweden. Chuck's may overlap
the others a little but all are essentially non-interfering. At one
time, there were also a Mangusta Registry for those 402 cars, and I
think I remember an informal one in So-Cal exclusively for the (maybe)
384 pushbutton Panteras. Both these last two disappeared years ago
without fanfare. In the late '90s, Martin Kreici in Switzerland started
a List of DeTomasos (mostly GR-4 & GT-4 Panteras, with serial numbers
and drivers) known to be involved in sanctioned World Sportscar Racing,
which I helped complete, but Martin no longer maintains this List.
Fortunately, I have that one in my archives. Rene Killer at the
DeTomaso Museum in Geneva also has an updated copy that I sent him.
There were at one point three more earlier DeTomaso Registries- the
first known was Bill Van Ess (Michigan)'s original self-funded Registry
dating from the early '90s, which I helped get started and which was
then taken over by Bill Milburn of Texas until about year 2000, and one
in England for mostly Euro DeTomasos run by Ben Tyle- once described as
"The European Gary Hall". That website also quietly disappeared a few
years ago. NONE of these Registries were ever adopted or sponsored by
POCA or any big Clubs, except that I gave both Bill Van Ess and Bill
Milburn years of free ads in the POCA Newsletter to try and get them
more entries. Response was disappointing. And being one-man efforts not
officially noticed or subsidized by POCA, PI or the DTDC in England,
the maintainers all eventually got tired of paddling by themselves and
folded.
What Michael Shortt is attempting to do is make sure that all the
colllected info from the previous 25-or-so years is not once again
lost. Being on-line, there are no known paper copies of most of the
Lists past or present; Pater Havlik's 9000-series Pantera list on DVD
(again, funded entirely by himself) is the exception. While Chuck has
apparently done a decent job on his own, there's NO guarantee how long
he will continue to host his offering, from his own billfold- note the
recorded lifespan so far for self-run DeTomaso Registries is not good.
Hence POCA is finally attempting to do something to preserve what
knowledge all these people have collected. Escalating prices for the
cars may be helping by focusing more attention on Panteras &
Mangustas.
The main problem is, given the inordinate amount of work involved in
keeping a List up to date, the 'owners' are reluctant to simply hand
over their 'babies' to someone else for a smile and a handshake and
step away. But IMHO, that's the only long-term solution. Another
problem may be, some of these Lists have been copywrited so while
individuals can obtain a single copy for personal use, organizations
cannot.
J DeRyke
Message: 12
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 20:30:40 -0600
From: Jeff Detrich <[4]jjdetrich at gmail.com>
To: Michael Shortt <[5]michaelsavga at gmail.com>
Cc: scott black <[6]timepiecepr2 at yahoo.com>, [7]detomaso at poca.com,
"[8]jderyke at aol.com" <[9]jderyke at aol.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Coming POCA Registry
Message-ID:
<[10]CANX29aWHr68_WojMsvE5Grff5kqVVcCYq_N=fJHgM8ziy=-zkg at mail.gmail.com
>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
There was also the pushbutton registry and the qv500 registry for the
later
cars.
For things that used to be on the internet, they still are courtesy of
the
"wayback machine." [11]http://archive.org/web/web.php
Take a look at this
one [12]http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://qv500.com -
I'd look circa 2010-11 for the best stuff.
[13]https://web.archive.org/web/20110902134749/http://www.qv500.com/de-
tomaso-registry/
<[14]https://web.archive.org/web/20110902134749/http:/www.qv500.com/de-
tomaso-registry/>
The other really neat thing about this site is the descriptions and
pictures of many of the DeTomaso race cars. They would make an
excellent
start to a section of the website to help document a big part of the
DeTomaso story.
[15]https://web.archive.org/web/20110820194030/http://www.qv500.com/car
-guide/de-tomaso/
<[16]https://web.archive.org/web/20110820194030/http:/www.qv500.com/car
-guide/de-tomaso/>
I'm sure it wouldn't be too difficult to resurrect the pushbutton
directory
as well.
And I'm kind of disappointed as I sent you all sorts of this kind of
info
for the new website that apparently hasn't been looked at it. I know
you've
been been busy but you really need to have someone who knows what they
are
doing, not a tech guy but a really experienced Pantera guy, take charge
of
the website. I get the sense it is going 150mph but without a roadmap.
That
kind of development project is really dangerous. You may get something
that
is technically proficient but sorely lacking in user friendliness,
really
getting at user needs, and so forth. Kind of a waste; there was a lot
of
good info in there, including ways on how to make the Registry work
easily.
Oh well, no one's listening. See attached memo I sent you with the
info.
I really have sympathy for you, however, it's really hard to find good
help, esp volunteer help. It's one of the reasons I think the Board
needs
to be expanded to bring on some people whose main job it is to actually
bring the club forward. Right now, each board member but Vice
President,
who doesn't really do anything, has a specific and time consuming job
to
do. And one that they are doing very well, by the way. But there isn't
anyone for the other important stuff like the website/registry.
My 2cents worth, to quote Jack.
Message: 14
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 08:09:21 -0600
From: [17]gow2 at rc-tech.net
To: "Jeff Detrich" <[18]jjdetrich at gmail.com>
Cc: "Michael Shortt"
<[19]michaelsavga at gmail.com>, [20]detomaso at poca.com,
"[21]jderyke at aol.com" <[22]jderyke at aol.com>, "scott black"
<[23]timepiecepr2 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Coming POCA Registry
Message-ID:
<[24]7f57a597b2f0cbb1a2a9a4c5ef38a74d.squirrel at sm.webmail.pair.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8
I think the first thing POCA needs to do is define what is a legitimate
registry. If the POCA wants to spend hours searching the internet for
information to load in the registry then I would not call it a
registry.
There were about 7000 cars made so if POCA has 5000 entries it would be
more fiction then legit.
Pantera owners need a legitimate registry from a legitimate Pantera
organization to represent them. It should be a registration and not a
google-wikepedea document. I would not say that a site like that is
not
valuable for investigative research but I would not call it a registry.
Making a legitimate registry is all about how the information is
gathered.
Being represented by a key organization is key too. I would limit the
sources of information to come into the registry. The most valuable
information would be from those who chose to participate.
The information should be listed as "reported by owner as of date xyz".
I
would allow very few other sources of information. If the Marti Report
allows you to copy their info then it would be referenced as "by the
Marti
Report". I would only allow official information from say the DeTomaso
factory if found, perhaps Hall if he had a list of converted cars if
they
could get that info from Bev, but that's about it. Even then if a car
shows information it's not registered.
There is a huge benefit from owners/cars who register their cars with
legitimate organization backed registries. The goal should NOT be 5000
of
the 7000 cars. That can only be fiction. If 500-1000 cars are in the
registry after several years, I would say that's a real accomplishment.
It
will be a significant differentiator for cars and car owners if
legitimate.
I have 2 cars, #1905 and #1280. I have not entered them in any
legitimate
registry which exist today. I live in a very rural Midwest town and I
know
of half a dozen Panteras which are in no legitimate registry. If a
legitimate registry is created, and I enter it, lets say I sell the car
and the car ends up at an exotic dealership.
I bought one of my cars from an exotic dealership. I have done google
research and found the original owner but it's not an official record
from
the original owner. Even if I found a copy of that info in a document
where they did the same google research there is nothing official about
it.
So I think the big question is, what makes an official legit registry
that
POCA would put their name on? Anything less only muddies the marquee.
Having a non legit gogle-wikepedea type of site and calling it a
registry
could really damage the brand.
Message: 15
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2016 09:39:30 -0500
From: Michael Shortt <[25]michaelsavga at gmail.com>
To: GW <[26]gow2 at rc-tech.net>
Cc: [27]detomaso at poca.com, "[28]jderyke at aol.com" <[29]jderyke at aol.com>,
Jeff
Detrich <[30]jjdetrich at gmail.com>, scott black
<[31]timepiecepr2 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Coming POCA Registry
Message-ID:
<[32]CAEWtxWqHXu5UeqNxo6ewn1YKYqDo-qb=QF2dEFfJWjQv_unjog at mail.gmail.com
>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Gary,
You are correct and have essentially modeled the Registry I will be
creating.
25-40 data points for the car as new plus 15-20 data points as the car
exists today as reported by the current owners.
The exact number of Panteras produced seems nebulous, yet we do know
that
5,244 were imported by Ford.
From MartiReports, I know yearly totals, colors, serial numbers and
dates
for 150 cars.
The only kind of Registry that matters to me is one that is 100%
correct
with verifiable, detailed content. We are not building this for
ourselves
as much as we are for those in the future.
Sure it will be fun to see exactly when changes were made, right down
to
the First car with the new seats, a ribbed decklid or the solid engine
screen. I'm sure bragging rights will come to many as we review the
records
in the years to come.
I appreciate your grasp of a proper Registry.
Michael Shorttalexa
References
1. mailto:jderyke at aol.com
2. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
3. mailto:153397f9606-3408-6015 at webprd-a87.mail.aol.com
4. mailto:jjdetrich at gmail.com
5. mailto:michaelsavga at gmail.com
6. mailto:timepiecepr2 at yahoo.com
7. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
8. mailto:jderyke at aol.com
9. mailto:jderyke at aol.com
10. mailto:CANX29aWHr68_WojMsvE5Grff5kqVVcCYq_N=fJHgM8ziy=-zkg at mail.gmail.com
11. http://archive.org/web/web.php
12. http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://qv500.com
13. https://web.archive.org/web/20110902134749/http://www.qv500.com/de-tomaso-registry/
14. https://web.archive.org/web/20110902134749/http:/www.qv500.com/de-tomaso-registry/
15. https://web.archive.org/web/20110820194030/http://www.qv500.com/car-guide/de-tomaso/
16. https://web.archive.org/web/20110820194030/http:/www.qv500.com/car-guide/de-tomaso/
17. mailto:gow2 at rc-tech.net
18. mailto:jjdetrich at gmail.com
19. mailto:michaelsavga at gmail.com
20. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
21. mailto:jderyke at aol.com
22. mailto:jderyke at aol.com
23. mailto:timepiecepr2 at yahoo.com
24. mailto:7f57a597b2f0cbb1a2a9a4c5ef38a74d.squirrel at sm.webmail.pair.com
25. mailto:michaelsavga at gmail.com
26. mailto:gow2 at rc-tech.net
27. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
28. mailto:jderyke at aol.com
29. mailto:jderyke at aol.com
30. mailto:jjdetrich at gmail.com
31. mailto:timepiecepr2 at yahoo.com
32. mailto:CAEWtxWqHXu5UeqNxo6ewn1YKYqDo-qb=QF2dEFfJWjQv_unjog at mail.gmail.com
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