[DeTomaso] Coming POCA Registry

Mike Drew MikeLDrew at aol.com
Wed Mar 2 18:51:54 EST 2016


Scott,

Good news. Those records were NOT burned. They were turned over to Kevin Marti and are still readily available. Just go to Marti Auto Works at www.martiauto.com, enter your VIN and transfer a few bucks to him and you can have all the info on any specific USA-market car. 

Cheers!

Mike

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 2, 2016, at 15:30, scott black via DeTomaso <detomaso at poca.com> wrote:

>   All,
>   I've never shared this sad story, but this thread seemed the
>   appropriate place.
>   A few years ago when I was on the POCA board, I went searching for the
>   FMC records through my contacts at Ford. I spoke to Bob Adams, who was
>   in the import office for Lincoln as part of his first job.
>   Bob said he saw the records for every Pantera that entered the USA. The
>   documents included the VIN and dealer the car was to go to in North
>   America.
>   At my request, he went to the FMC document warehouse in search of the
>   documents that he had personally seen. A month later he called with bad
>   news. The documents had been burned about a year before under the
>   standard Ford protocol. They were gone.
>   I tried to see if Butfoy had any via another friend who worked for him
>   when he was hired to go "fix" cars by FMC. But those records were not
>   available, either.
>   I was pretty disappointed and never shared how close the Pantera world
>   was to having at least an accurate record of the cars imported to the
>   USA from FMC.
>   Best regards,
>   Scott Black
>   TimePiece Public Relations & Marketing Marketing Acceleration
>   www.tprm-usa.com
>   On Wednesday, March 2, 2016 4:44 PM, Jack DeRyke via DeTomaso
>   <detomaso at poca.com> wrote:
>     Let's keep in mind that there are now at least 3 Registries- Chuck's
>   in
>     N. California for DeTomasos, the post-Ford '9000-Series Pantera
>     Registry' maintained by Peter Havlik in British Columbia and the
>   'Gr-3
>     Registry' maintained by Anders Hellberg in Sweden. Chuck's may
>   overlap
>     the others a little but all are essentially non-interfering. At one
>     time, there were also a Mangusta Registry for those 402 cars, and I
>     think I remember an informal one in So-Cal exclusively for the
>   (maybe)
>     384 pushbutton Panteras.  Both these last two disappeared years ago
>     without fanfare. In the late '90s, Martin Kreici in Switzerland
>   started
>     a List of DeTomasos (mostly GR-4 & GT-4 Panteras, with serial numbers
>     and drivers) known to be involved in sanctioned World Sportscar
>   Racing,
>     which I helped complete, but Martin no longer maintains this List.
>     Fortunately, I have that one in my archives. Rene Killer at the
>     DeTomaso Museum in Geneva also has an updated copy that I sent him.
>     There were at one point three more earlier DeTomaso Registries- the
>     first known was Bill Van Ess (Michigan)'s original self-funded
>   Registry
>     dating from the early '90s, which I helped get started and which was
>     then taken over by Bill Milburn of Texas until about year 2000, and
>   one
>     in England for mostly Euro DeTomasos run by Ben Tyle- once described
>   as
>     "The European Gary Hall". That website also quietly disappeared a few
>     years ago. NONE of these Registries were ever adopted or sponsored by
>     POCA or any big Clubs, except that I gave both Bill Van Ess and Bill
>     Milburn years of free ads in the POCA Newsletter to try and get them
>     more entries. Response was disappointing. And being one-man efforts
>   not
>     officially noticed or subsidized by POCA, PI or the DTDC in England,
>     the maintainers all eventually got tired of paddling by themselves
>   and
>     folded.
>     What Michael Shortt is attempting to do is make sure that all the
>     colllected info from the previous 25-or-so years is not once again
>     lost. Being on-line, there are no known paper copies of most of the
>     Lists past or present; Pater Havlik's 9000-series Pantera list on DVD
>     (again, funded entirely by himself) is the exception.  While Chuck
>   has
>     apparently done a decent job on his own, there's NO guarantee how
>   long
>     he will continue to host his offering, from his own billfold- note
>   the
>     recorded lifespan so far for self-run DeTomaso Registries is not
>   good.
>     Hence POCA is finally attempting to do something to preserve what
>     knowledge all these people have collected. Escalating prices for the
>     cars may be helping by focusing more attention on Panteras &
>   Mangustas.
>     The main problem is, given the inordinate amount of work involved in
>     keeping a List up to date, the 'owners' are reluctant to simply hand
>     over their 'babies' to someone else for a smile and a handshake and
>     step away.  But IMHO, that's the only long-term solution. Another
>     problem may be, some of these Lists have been copywrited so while
>     individuals can obtain a single copy for personal use, organizations
>     cannot.
>     J DeRyke
>     -----Original Message-----
>     From: Rob Dumoulin <[1]rob at dumoulins.net>
>     To: The DeTomaso Registry Guy <[2]detomasoregistry at gmail.com>
>     Cc: Pantera - DeTomaso Mail List <[3]detomaso at poca.com>; Dick Koch
>     <[4]redcatman74 at gmail.com>
>     Sent: Wed, Mar 2, 2016 11:12 am
>     Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Coming POCA Registry
>     Chuck, sorry, I did not receive or read the posts you made on the
>     subject.A I have just read them. A
>     Thoughts, for what they are worth, are strictly to help come to a
>     mutual solution...
>     You clearly state that you do not have the time to do the job
>   justice.
>     Nor would I.A Not many people do, but if we allow the community to
>     each own portions of their own entries, we spread that workload out.A
>     For those not members of POCA, maybe they can be thought of as
>     'prospects' and be encouraged to post the information already in the
>     registry on the POCA site.
>     I think the goal stated was to include and expand on the information
>     over what you have in your registry. Could the POCA site do that and
>     link to your site for the rest.A Maybe, but it may not be a seamless
>     experience.A Anybody else know of a technology that could make that
>     work?
>     Rob DuMoulin
>     904.476.8744
>     [1][1][5]rob at dumoulins.net
>     [2][2]www.kbsi.co
>     [3][3][6]http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
>     On Wed, Mar 2, 2016 at 1:21 PM, The DeTomaso Registry Guy
>     <[4][4][7]detomasoregistry at gmail.com> wrote:
>     Like other people, I am getting mail, well out of sequence.
>     I already sent out an answer regarding being the POCA registry guy,
>     and I have to decline, as I do not have the time to do the job
>     justice.
>     I might be willing to be an advisor, but that is all.
>     Now if you received and read my message "the numbers", you
>     understand that a
>     POCA-only registry would be a bad idea.A About 4,000 existing users
>     would
>     NOT be allowed to use a POCA-only registry, just the 1,000 POCA
>     members.
>     My questions for the POCA board still stand.A How can POCA improve
>     the registry? (for all)
>     I made just two suggestions.
>     If you missed my registry messages, see the forum archives, I just
>     confirmed they are present.
> 
>   [5][5][8]http://poca.com/pipermail/detomaso_poca.com/2016-February/date
>   .ht
>     ml
>     scroll to the bottom.
>     Chuck
>     Chuck, would you be open to such an arrangement?A A Not the hookers
>   in
>     Vegas
>     part.I won't ask you to go on record about that.A You know what they
>     say,
>     "What happens in Vegas, can usually be cleared up by antibiotics".A
>     The
>     part that you could manage the registry hosted on a POCA site.A The
>     only
>     difference is that you would not have to pay for hosting yourself and
>     design and content could be enhanced and linked to other content.
>     Rob DuMoulin
>     [6]904.476.8744
>     [7][6][9]rob at dumoulins.net
>     [8][7]www.kbsi.co
>     [9][8][10]http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
>     On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 4:26 PM, Dick Koch
>     <[10][9][11]redcatman74 at gmail.com>
>     wrote:
>> In my opinion, Rob states the case for POCA to "house" the
>   registry.
>> However, since someone needs to be in charge of creating and
>   managing
>     the
>> registry, I would think that the club should create a "registry
>     management"
>> position in which I would think Chuck would be the logical person
>   to
>> manage.
>> 
>> He would be able to maintain his "banner" as the originator of the
>> registry, and get additional resources to maintain and expand it.
>> 
>> I can't believe I am saying this, but the only thing Chuck would
>   have
>     to
>> give up is complete control "for the greater good."
>> On Feb 26, 2016 5:39 PM, "Rob Dumoulin"
>   <[11][10][12]rob at dumoulins.net>
>     wrote:
>> 
>>> A A I really do not understand the issue. This should not be about
>     Chuck
>>> A A vs. POCA.AA This should be about what is best for the marque.
>     Chuck has
>>> A A and is doing a wonderful and financially thankless service for
>     the
>>> A A marque. There is nothing short of praise and/or lots of cash to
>     make up
>>> A A for it. I cannot speak for you, Chuck, but this could be a
>     welcomed
>>> A A burden lifted even though I am confident this is not considered
>     a
>>> A A burden to you, but a passion.AA If I could buy you a drink,
>     hooker in
>>> A A Vegas (hey, it's legal there), or whatever I could to show
>     appreciation
>>> A A when I get a chance to meet you in person, I would.
>>> A A But I see both sides. A
>>> A A If something, God forbid, would happen to Chuck or his
>     registry, or if
>>> A A Chuck decides he now wants to change his passion to collecting
>     hummels
>>> A A of Italian street peasants instead, we would have to start
>     over. It
>>> A A makes sense for the marque to carry this burden.
>>> A A Flipside
>>> A A Without Chuck's help or persuasion, we lack the non-POCA cars
>     in the
>>> A A registry.
>>> A A Is there not some way to do this together?AA Look, I've
>     personally been
>>> A A in this situation professional before. I conceived, designed,
>     built,
>>> A A and supported software that quickly was used all over the
>     world.AA The
>>> A A first 3 years, I was the only support and took calls from
>     Australia at
>>> A A 2 AM Monday morning when I was supposed to be on a plane at 6
>     AM to
>>> A A travel for work. It was the hardest thing to turn over support
>     for my
>>> A A 'baby' to an Indian team, but I did because it was really the
>     best way
>>> A A to keep it growing and me sleeping at night.AA This should be
>     bigger
>>> A A than us. It's hard, but we need to look at a big picture.
>>> A A Rob DuMoulin
>>> A A [12]904.476.8744
>>> A A [1][13][11][13]rob at dumoulins.net
>>> A A [2][14][12]www.kbsi.co
>>> A A
>   [3][15][13][14]http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
>>> A A On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 1:58 PM, James coyne
>>> A A <[4][16][14][15]tecnosound at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> A A A AA A Well stated Julian .
>>> A A A AA A From: [5][17][15][16]julian_kift at hotmail.com
>>> A A A AA A To: [6][18][16][17]michaelsavga at gmail.com;
>     [7][19][17][18]cengles at cox.net
>>> A A A AA A Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2016 16:25:53 +0000
>>> A A A AA A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Coming POCA Registry
>>> A A A AA A CC: [8][20][18][19]detomaso at poca.com;
>     [9][21][19][20]garth_rodericks at yahoo.com
>>> A A A Well I don't know the details of what Chuck was offered to
>     integrate
>>> A A A his registr
>>> A A A y with the new POCA one, but I am sympathetic to his stance
>     given
>>> A A A that he's put
>>> A A A years of hard work, long hours and money into something that
>     no one
>>> A A A else wanted
>>> A A A to take on for the longest time. He also provides free
>     access to
>>> A A A that registry f
>>> A A A or the simple task of a submission, a tactic which has
>     allowed him
>>> A A A to amass well
>>> A A A A over 4,000 entries. POCA has what, less than 1,000 members
>     to
>>> A A A enter their detai
>>> A A A ls? I think it will be some time before you can
>     categorically state
>>> A A A that 'yours'
>>> A A A A will be better, and as you state it "will be for the other
>>> A A A registry members use
>>> A A A A only" that predicates a POCA membership, thus to say it is
>     not for
>>> A A A monetary gai
>>> A A A n is a contradiction in terms.
>>> A A A The Shelby American Automobile Club is licensed from Carrol
>     Shelby,
>>> A A A they don't t
>>> A A A heoretically own anything and it took law suits to get it
>     all
>>> A A A straightened out.
>>> A A A We are lucky that Santiago De Tomaso or whoever owns the De
>     Tomaso
>>> A A A marque never
>>> A A A chooses to get involved!
>>> A A A I respectfully disagree that POCA needs to own the registry
>     and it
>>> A A A hasn't seen t
>>> A A A hat need for the past 45 years. If your vision is truly to
>     break
>>> A A A down divisions
>>> A A A within the marque then you I recommend you embrace what
>     Chuck and
>>> A A A others before
>>> A A A him have achieved and not be bickering over who owns what
>     and is
>>> A A A bigger and bett
>>> A A A er. The Provamo registry is currently THE foremost
>     collection of
>>> A A A Pantera informa
>>> A A A tion anywhere, period and should be recognized as such.
>>> A A A Don't forget this is an open forum not POCA, if you want the
>     forum
>>> A A A that 'needed'
>>> A A A A to be owned by POCA it's on their website and the last
>     post was 3
>>> A A A months ago...
>>> A A A .. so I will continue to us my time how I see fit to voice
>     my
>>> A A A opinions, even if
>>> A A A I am the 1% minority, when everyone conforms it is no longer
>     a
>>> A A A democracy.
>>> A A A Julian
>>> A A A ________________________________
>>> A A A From: Michael Shortt <[10][22][20][21]michaelsavga at gmail.com>
>>> A A A Sent: Friday, February 26, 2016 6:56 AM
>>> A A A To: Charles Engles
>>> A A A Cc: Julian Kift; [11][23][21][22]detomaso at poca.com; Garth
>   Rodericks
>>> A A A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Coming POCA Registry
>>> A A A Chuck was asked ( 4 times ) and declined to work with us or
>>> A A A integrate his with o
>>> A A A urs.
>>> A A A Furthermore, ours will be much better, with far more
>     information (
>>> A A A if you choose
>>> A A A A to upload yours )
>>> A A A The Registry needs to be owned by POCA and carry on long
>     after we
>>> A A A are all dead,
>>> A A A Shelby owns theirs, as does every marque club.
>>> A A A It is not a business, it is not a money maker, and it will
>     be for
>>> A A A the other regi
>>> A A A stry members to use only.
>>> A A A Things are going to be changing for the better, perhaps if
>     everyone
>>> A A A would use th
>>> A A A eir time
>>> A A A to improve the process ( like offer items to include ), it
>     would go
>>> A A A better.
>>> A A A I can tell you that once the final version comes out for
>     members to
>>> A A A use, it prob
>>> A A A ably won't be changed
>>> A A A for two reasons, 1) those whom have already submitted their
>     car(s)
>>> A A A out would hav
>>> A A A e to do it again, 2) the expense
>>> A A A of making those changes.AA I am not going to punish those
>     who comply
>>> A A A and contribu
>>> A A A te, nor am I going to be fiscally irresponsible.
>>> A A A Michael Shortt
>>> A A A On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 9:27 AM,
>>> A A A
> 
>   <[12][24][22][23]cengles at cox.net<[23]mailto:[13][25][24]cengles at cox.net
>     wrote
>>> A A A :
>>> A A A Dear Julian:AA Precisely.AA AA AA AA Warmest
>     regards,AA Chuck Engles
>>> A A A On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 9:39 PM, Julian Kift wrote:
>>> A A A You could add a link to Provamo.com and save a lot of
>     repetition
>>> A A A work, just sayi
>>> A A A ng....
>>> A A A ________________________________________
>>> A A A From: DeTomaso
>>> A A A
> 
>   <[14][26][24][25]detomaso-bounces at poca.com<[25]mailto:[15][27]d
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