[DeTomaso] Coming POCA Registry
jderyke at aol.com
jderyke at aol.com
Wed Mar 2 17:42:56 EST 2016
Let's keep in mind that there are now at least 3 Registries- Chuck's in N. California for DeTomasos, the post-Ford '9000-Series Pantera Registry' maintained by Peter Havlik in British Columbia and the 'Gr-3 Registry' maintained by Anders Hellberg in Sweden. Chuck's may overlap the others a little but all are essentially non-interfering. At one time, there were also a Mangusta Registry for those 402 cars, and I think I remember an informal one in So-Cal exclusively for the (maybe) 384 pushbutton Panteras. Both these last two disappeared years ago without fanfare. In the late '90s, Martin Kreici in Switzerland started a List of DeTomasos (mostly GR-4 & GT-4 Panteras, with serial numbers and drivers) known to be involved in sanctioned World Sportscar Racing, which I helped complete, but Martin no longer maintains this List. Fortunately, I have that one in my archives. Rene Killer at the DeTomaso Museum in Geneva also has an updated copy that I sent him.
There were at one point three more earlier DeTomaso Registries- the first known was Bill Van Ess (Michigan)'s original self-funded Registry dating from the early '90s, which I helped get started and which was then taken over by Bill Milburn of Texas until about year 2000, and one in England for mostly Euro DeTomasos run by Ben Tyle- once described as "The European Gary Hall". That website also quietly disappeared a few years ago. NONE of these Registries were ever adopted or sponsored by POCA or any big Clubs, except that I gave both Bill Van Ess and Bill Milburn years of free ads in the POCA Newsletter to try and get them more entries. Response was disappointing. And being one-man efforts not officially noticed or subsidized by POCA, PI or the DTDC in England, the maintainers all eventually got tired of paddling by themselves and folded.
What Michael Shortt is attempting to do is make sure that all the colllected info from the previous 25-or-so years is not once again lost. Being on-line, there are no known paper copies of most of the Lists past or present; Pater Havlik's 9000-series Pantera list on DVD (again, funded entirely by himself) is the exception. While Chuck has apparently done a decent job on his own, there's NO guarantee how long he will continue to host his offering, from his own billfold- note the recorded lifespan so far for self-run DeTomaso Registries is not good. Hence POCA is finally attempting to do something to preserve what knowledge all these people have collected. Escalating prices for the cars may be helping by focusing more attention on Panteras & Mangustas.
The main problem is, given the inordinate amount of work involved in keeping a List up to date, the 'owners' are reluctant to simply hand over their 'babies' to someone else for a smile and a handshake and step away. But IMHO, that's the only long-term solution. Another problem may be, some of these Lists have been copywrited so while individuals can obtain a single copy for personal use, organizations cannot.
J DeRyke
-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Dumoulin <rob at dumoulins.net>
To: The DeTomaso Registry Guy <detomasoregistry at gmail.com>
Cc: Pantera - DeTomaso Mail List <detomaso at poca.com>; Dick Koch <redcatman74 at gmail.com>
Sent: Wed, Mar 2, 2016 11:12 am
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Coming POCA Registry
Chuck, sorry, I did not receive or read the posts you made on the
subject.A I have just read them. A
Thoughts, for what they are worth, are strictly to help come to a
mutual solution...
You clearly state that you do not have the time to do the job justice.
Nor would I.A Not many people do, but if we allow the community to
each own portions of their own entries, we spread that workload out.A
For those not members of POCA, maybe they can be thought of as
'prospects' and be encouraged to post the information already in the
registry on the POCA site.
I think the goal stated was to include and expand on the information
over what you have in your registry. Could the POCA site do that and
link to your site for the rest.A Maybe, but it may not be a seamless
experience.A Anybody else know of a technology that could make that
work?
Rob DuMoulin
904.476.8744
[1]rob at dumoulins.net
[2]www.kbsi.co
[3]http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
On Wed, Mar 2, 2016 at 1:21 PM, The DeTomaso Registry Guy
<[4]detomasoregistry at gmail.com> wrote:
Like other people, I am getting mail, well out of sequence.
I already sent out an answer regarding being the POCA registry guy,
and I have to decline, as I do not have the time to do the job
justice.
I might be willing to be an advisor, but that is all.
Now if you received and read my message "the numbers", you
understand that a
POCA-only registry would be a bad idea.A About 4,000 existing users
would
NOT be allowed to use a POCA-only registry, just the 1,000 POCA
members.
My questions for the POCA board still stand.A How can POCA improve
the registry? (for all)
I made just two suggestions.
If you missed my registry messages, see the forum archives, I just
confirmed they are present.
[5]http://poca.com/pipermail/detomaso_poca.com/2016-February/date.ht
ml
scroll to the bottom.
Chuck
Chuck, would you be open to such an arrangement?A A Not the hookers in
Vegas
part.I won't ask you to go on record about that.A You know what they
say,
"What happens in Vegas, can usually be cleared up by antibiotics".A
The
part that you could manage the registry hosted on a POCA site.A The
only
difference is that you would not have to pay for hosting yourself and
design and content could be enhanced and linked to other content.
Rob DuMoulin
[6]904.476.8744
[7]rob at dumoulins.net
[8]www.kbsi.co
[9]http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 4:26 PM, Dick Koch <[10]redcatman74 at gmail.com>
wrote:
> In my opinion, Rob states the case for POCA to "house" the registry.
> However, since someone needs to be in charge of creating and managing
the
> registry, I would think that the club should create a "registry
management"
> position in which I would think Chuck would be the logical person to
> manage.
>
> He would be able to maintain his "banner" as the originator of the
> registry, and get additional resources to maintain and expand it.
>
> I can't believe I am saying this, but the only thing Chuck would have
to
> give up is complete control "for the greater good."
> On Feb 26, 2016 5:39 PM, "Rob Dumoulin" <[11]rob at dumoulins.net>
wrote:
>
>>A A I really do not understand the issue. This should not be about
Chuck
>>A A vs. POCA.AA This should be about what is best for the marque.
Chuck has
>>A A and is doing a wonderful and financially thankless service for
the
>>A A marque. There is nothing short of praise and/or lots of cash to
make up
>>A A for it. I cannot speak for you, Chuck, but this could be a
welcomed
>>A A burden lifted even though I am confident this is not considered
a
>>A A burden to you, but a passion.AA If I could buy you a drink,
hooker in
>>A A Vegas (hey, it's legal there), or whatever I could to show
appreciation
>>A A when I get a chance to meet you in person, I would.
>>A A But I see both sides. A
>>A A If something, God forbid, would happen to Chuck or his
registry, or if
>>A A Chuck decides he now wants to change his passion to collecting
hummels
>>A A of Italian street peasants instead, we would have to start
over. It
>>A A makes sense for the marque to carry this burden.
>>A A Flipside
>>A A Without Chuck's help or persuasion, we lack the non-POCA cars
in the
>>A A registry.
>>A A Is there not some way to do this together?AA Look, I've
personally been
>>A A in this situation professional before. I conceived, designed,
built,
>>A A and supported software that quickly was used all over the
world.AA The
>>A A first 3 years, I was the only support and took calls from
Australia at
>>A A 2 AM Monday morning when I was supposed to be on a plane at 6
AM to
>>A A travel for work. It was the hardest thing to turn over support
for my
>>A A 'baby' to an Indian team, but I did because it was really the
best way
>>A A to keep it growing and me sleeping at night.AA This should be
bigger
>>A A than us. It's hard, but we need to look at a big picture.
>>A A Rob DuMoulin
>>A A [12]904.476.8744
>>A A [1][13]rob at dumoulins.net
>>A A [2][14]www.kbsi.co
>>A A [3][15]http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
>>A A On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 1:58 PM, James coyne
>>A A <[4][16]tecnosound at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>A A A AA A Well stated Julian .
>>A A A AA A From: [5][17]julian_kift at hotmail.com
>>A A A AA A To: [6][18]michaelsavga at gmail.com;
[7][19]cengles at cox.net
>>A A A AA A Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2016 16:25:53 +0000
>>A A A AA A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Coming POCA Registry
>>A A A AA A CC: [8][20]detomaso at poca.com;
[9][21]garth_rodericks at yahoo.com
>>A A A Well I don't know the details of what Chuck was offered to
integrate
>>A A A his registr
>>A A A y with the new POCA one, but I am sympathetic to his stance
given
>>A A A that he's put
>>A A A years of hard work, long hours and money into something that
no one
>>A A A else wanted
>>A A A to take on for the longest time. He also provides free
access to
>>A A A that registry f
>>A A A or the simple task of a submission, a tactic which has
allowed him
>>A A A to amass well
>>A A A A over 4,000 entries. POCA has what, less than 1,000 members
to
>>A A A enter their detai
>>A A A ls? I think it will be some time before you can
categorically state
>>A A A that 'yours'
>>A A A A will be better, and as you state it "will be for the other
>>A A A registry members use
>>A A A A only" that predicates a POCA membership, thus to say it is
not for
>>A A A monetary gai
>>A A A n is a contradiction in terms.
>>A A A The Shelby American Automobile Club is licensed from Carrol
Shelby,
>>A A A they don't t
>>A A A heoretically own anything and it took law suits to get it
all
>>A A A straightened out.
>>A A A We are lucky that Santiago De Tomaso or whoever owns the De
Tomaso
>>A A A marque never
>>A A A chooses to get involved!
>>A A A I respectfully disagree that POCA needs to own the registry
and it
>>A A A hasn't seen t
>>A A A hat need for the past 45 years. If your vision is truly to
break
>>A A A down divisions
>>A A A within the marque then you I recommend you embrace what
Chuck and
>>A A A others before
>>A A A him have achieved and not be bickering over who owns what
and is
>>A A A bigger and bett
>>A A A er. The Provamo registry is currently THE foremost
collection of
>>A A A Pantera informa
>>A A A tion anywhere, period and should be recognized as such.
>>A A A Don't forget this is an open forum not POCA, if you want the
forum
>>A A A that 'needed'
>>A A A A to be owned by POCA it's on their website and the last
post was 3
>>A A A months ago...
>>A A A .. so I will continue to us my time how I see fit to voice
my
>>A A A opinions, even if
>>A A A I am the 1% minority, when everyone conforms it is no longer
a
>>A A A democracy.
>>A A A Julian
>>A A A ________________________________
>>A A A From: Michael Shortt <[10][22]michaelsavga at gmail.com>
>>A A A Sent: Friday, February 26, 2016 6:56 AM
>>A A A To: Charles Engles
>>A A A Cc: Julian Kift; [11][23]detomaso at poca.com; Garth Rodericks
>>A A A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Coming POCA Registry
>>A A A Chuck was asked ( 4 times ) and declined to work with us or
>>A A A integrate his with o
>>A A A urs.
>>A A A Furthermore, ours will be much better, with far more
information (
>>A A A if you choose
>>A A A A to upload yours )
>>A A A The Registry needs to be owned by POCA and carry on long
after we
>>A A A are all dead,
>>A A A Shelby owns theirs, as does every marque club.
>>A A A It is not a business, it is not a money maker, and it will
be for
>>A A A the other regi
>>A A A stry members to use only.
>>A A A Things are going to be changing for the better, perhaps if
everyone
>>A A A would use th
>>A A A eir time
>>A A A to improve the process ( like offer items to include ), it
would go
>>A A A better.
>>A A A I can tell you that once the final version comes out for
members to
>>A A A use, it prob
>>A A A ably won't be changed
>>A A A for two reasons, 1) those whom have already submitted their
car(s)
>>A A A out would hav
>>A A A e to do it again, 2) the expense
>>A A A of making those changes.AA I am not going to punish those
who comply
>>A A A and contribu
>>A A A te, nor am I going to be fiscally irresponsible.
>>A A A Michael Shortt
>>A A A On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 9:27 AM,
>>A A A <[12][24]cengles at cox.net<mailto:[13][25]cengles at cox.net>>
wrote
>>A A A :
>>A A A Dear Julian:AA Precisely.AA AA AA AA Warmest
regards,AA Chuck Engles
>>A A A On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 9:39 PM, Julian Kift wrote:
>>A A A You could add a link to Provamo.com and save a lot of
repetition
>>A A A work, just sayi
>>A A A ng....
>>A A A ________________________________________
>>A A A From: DeTomaso
>>A A A
<[14][26]detomaso-bounces at poca.com<mailto:[15][27]detomaso-bounces at poca
.com>
>>A A A > on
>>A A A behalf of marshall smith
>>A A A
<[16][28]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net<mailto:[17]marshallgsmith at sbc
>>A A A [18][29]global.net>>
>>A A A Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2016 3:17 PM
>>A A A To: DeTomaso Mail List; Garth Rodericks
>>A A A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Coming POCA Registry
>>A A A You could add Pushbutton!
>>A A A --------------------------------------------
>>A A A On Thu, 2/25/16, Garth Rodericks via DeTomaso
>>A A A <[19][30]detomaso at poca.com<mailto:[20]detomaso
>>A A A @[21][31]poca.com>> wrote:
>>A A A A Subject: [DeTomaso] Coming POCA Registry
>>A A A A To: "DeTomaso Mail List"
>>A A A
<[22][32]detomaso at poca.com<mailto:[23][33]detomaso at poca.com>>
>>
>>A A A Date: Thursday, February 25, 2016, 10:52 AM
>>A A AA AA For all the
>>A A A categories, I'd start with a hierarchical organization and
>>A A AA AA add the ability to denote stock and
>>A A A modified.AA A simple checkbox for
>>A A AA AA "Modified" in each area could allow owners
>>A A A to enter the car's original
>>A A AA AA configuration as well as the current
>>A A A configuration, such as in the
>>A A AA AA example of a car that has since been
>>A A A winged and flared and listed as a
>>A A AA AA Gr4. Just a thought
>>A A AA AA Year
>>A A AA AA -->Model:
>>A A AA AA AA AA --> pre-L
>>A A AA AA AA AA --> L
>>A A AA AA AA AA --> GTS
>>A A AA AA AA AA --> Gr4
>>A A AA AA AA AA --> Gr5
>>A A AA AA AA AA --> GT5S
>>A A AA AA AA AA --> etc.
>>A A AA AA Cheers!
>>A A AA AA Garth
>>A A A -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>>A A A _______________________________________________
>>A A A Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>A A A Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>>A A A DeTomaso mailing list
>>
>>A A A A
[24][34]DeTomaso at poca.com<mailto:[25][35]DeTomaso at poca.com>
>>A A A A
[1][26][36]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>A A A A To manage your subscription (change email address,
>>A A A A unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>>A A A _______________________________________________
>>A A A Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>A A A Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>>A A A DeTomaso mailing list
>>A A A [27][37]DeTomaso at poca.com<mailto:[28][38]DeTomaso at poca.com>
>>A A A
[2][29][39]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>A A A To manage your subscription (change email address,
unsubscribe,
>>A A A etc.) use the li
>>A A A nks above.
>>A A A _______________________________________________
>>A A A Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>A A A Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>>A A A DeTomaso mailing list
>>A A A [30][40]DeTomaso at poca.com<mailto:[31][41]DeTomaso at poca.com>
>>A A A
[3][32][42]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>A A A To manage your subscription (change email address,
unsubscribe,
>>A A A etc.) use the li
>>A A A nks above.
>>A A A _______________________________________________
>>A A A Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>A A A Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>>A A A DeTomaso mailing list
>>A A A [33][43]DeTomaso at poca.com<mailto:[34][44]DeTomaso at poca.com>
>>A A A
[4][35][45]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>A A A To manage your subscription (change email address,
unsubscribe,
>>A A A etc.) use the li
>>A A A nks above.
>>A A A --
>>A A A Michael L. Shortt
>>A A A Savannah, Georgia
>>A A A
[36][46]www.michaelshortt.com<[5][37][47]http://www.michaelshortt.com>
>>A A A
[38][48]michael at michaelshortt.com<mailto:[39][49]michael at michaelshortt.
com>
>>A A A [40]912-232-9390
>>A A A This email is protected by the Electronic Communications
Privacy
>>A A A Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be
legally
>>A A A privileged.AA If you are not the intended recipient, you
are hereby
>>A A A notified
>>A A A that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying
of this
>>A A A communication is strictly prohibited.AA Please reply to the
sender
>>A A A that you
>>A A A have received this message in error, then delete it.AA
Thank you
>>A A A AA A _______________________________________________
Detomaso Forum
>>A A A Managed
>>A A A AA A by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
DeTomaso
>>A A A mailing
>>A A A AA A list [41][50]DeTomaso at poca.com
>>A A A AA A
[42][51]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com To
>>A A A manage your
>>A A A AA A subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
use the
>>A A A links
>>A A A AA A above.
>>A A A References
>>A A A AA A 1.
[43][52]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>A A A AA A 2.
[44][53]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>A A A AA A 3.
[45][54]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>A A A AA A 4.
[46][55]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>A A A AA A 5. [47][56]http://www.michaelshortt.com/
>>A A A _______________________________________________
>>A A A Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>A A A Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>>A A A DeTomaso mailing list
>>A A A [48][57]DeTomaso at poca.com
>>A A A [49][58]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>A A A To manage your subscription (change email address,
unsubscribe,
>>A A A etc.) use the links above.
>>
>> References
>>
>>A A 1. mailto:[59]rob at dumoulins.net
>>A A 2. [60]http://www.kbsi.co/
>>A A 3. [61]http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
>>A A 4. mailto:[62]tecnosound at hotmail.com
>>A A 5. mailto:[63]julian_kift at hotmail.com
>>A A 6. mailto:[64]michaelsavga at gmail.com
>>A A 7. mailto:[65]cengles at cox.net
>>A A 8. mailto:[66]detomaso at poca.com
>>A A 9. mailto:[67]garth_rodericks at yahoo.com
>>A A 10. mailto:[68]michaelsavga at gmail.com
>>A A 11. mailto:[69]detomaso at poca.com
>>A A 12. mailto:[70]cengles at cox.net
>>A A 13. mailto:[71]cengles at cox.net
>>A A 14. mailto:[72]detomaso-bounces at poca.com
>>A A 15. mailto:[73]detomaso-bounces at poca.com
>>A A 16. mailto:[74]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
>>A A 17. mailto:[75]marshallgsmith at sbc
>>A A 18. [76]http://global.net/
>>A A 19. mailto:[77]detomaso at poca.com
>>A A 20. mailto:[78]detomaso
>>A A 21. [79]http://poca.com/
>>A A 22. mailto:[80]detomaso at poca.com
>>A A 23. mailto:[81]detomaso at poca.com
>>A A 24. mailto:[82]DeTomaso at poca.com
>>A A 25. mailto:[83]DeTomaso at poca.com
>>A A 26. [84]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>A A 27. mailto:[85]DeTomaso at poca.com
>>A A 28. mailto:[86]DeTomaso at poca.com
>>A A 29. [87]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>A A 30. mailto:[88]DeTomaso at poca.com
>>A A 31. mailto:[89]DeTomaso at poca.com
>>A A 32. [90]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>A A 33. mailto:[91]DeTomaso at poca.com
>>A A 34. mailto:[92]DeTomaso at poca.com
>>A A 35. [93]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>A A 36. [94]http://www.michaelshortt.com/
>>A A 37. [95]http://www.michaelshortt.com/
>>A A 38. mailto:[96]michael at michaelshortt.com
>>A A 39. mailto:[97]michael at michaelshortt.com
>>A A 40. tel:[98]912-232-9390
>>A A 41. mailto:[99]DeTomaso at poca.com
>>A A 42. [100]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>A A 43. [101]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>A A 44. [102]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>A A 45. [103]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>A A 46. [104]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>A A 47. [105]http://www.michaelshortt.com/
>>A A 48. mailto:[106]DeTomaso at poca.com
>>A A 49. [107]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> [108]DeTomaso at poca.com
>> [109]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
etc.) use
>> the links above.
>>
>>
References
1. mailto:rob at dumoulins.net
2. http://www.kbsi.co/
3. http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
4. mailto:detomasoregistry at gmail.com
5. http://poca.com/pipermail/detomaso_poca.com/2016-February/date.html
6. tel:904.476.8744
7. mailto:rob at dumoulins.net
8. http://www.kbsi.co/
9. http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
10. mailto:redcatman74 at gmail.com
11. mailto:rob at dumoulins.net
12. tel:904.476.8744
13. mailto:rob at dumoulins.net
14. http://www.kbsi.co/
15. http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
16. mailto:tecnosound at hotmail.com
17. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
18. mailto:michaelsavga at gmail.com
19. mailto:cengles at cox.net
20. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
21. mailto:garth_rodericks at yahoo.com
22. mailto:michaelsavga at gmail.com
23. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
24. mailto:cengles at cox.net
25. mailto:cengles at cox.net
26. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
27. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
28. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
29. http://global.net/
30. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
31. http://poca.com/
32. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
33. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
34. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
35. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
36. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
37. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
38. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
39. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
40. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
41. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
42. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
43. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
44. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
45. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
46. http://www.michaelshortt.com/
47. http://www.michaelshortt.com/
48. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
49. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
50. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
51. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
52. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
53. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
54. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
55. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
56. http://www.michaelshortt.com/
57. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
58. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
59. mailto:rob at dumoulins.net
60. http://www.kbsi.co/
61. http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
62. mailto:tecnosound at hotmail.com
63. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
64. mailto:michaelsavga at gmail.com
65. mailto:cengles at cox.net
66. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
67. mailto:garth_rodericks at yahoo.com
68. mailto:michaelsavga at gmail.com
69. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
70. mailto:cengles at cox.net
71. mailto:cengles at cox.net
72. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
73. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
74. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
75. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbc
76. http://global.net/
77. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
78. mailto:detomaso
79. http://poca.com/
80. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
81. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
82. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
83. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
84. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
85. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
86. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
87. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
88. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
89. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
90. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
91. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
92. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
93. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
94. http://www.michaelshortt.com/
95. http://www.michaelshortt.com/
96. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
97. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
98. tel:912-232-9390
99. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
100. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
101. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
102. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
103. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
104. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
105. http://www.michaelshortt.com/
106. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
107. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
108. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
109. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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-------------- next part --------------
Let's keep in mind that there are now at least 3 Registries- Chuck's in
N. California for DeTomasos, the post-Ford '9000-Series Pantera
Registry' maintained by Peter Havlik in British Columbia and the 'Gr-3
Registry' maintained by Anders Hellberg in Sweden. Chuck's may overlap
the others a little but all are essentially non-interfering. At one
time, there were also a Mangusta Registry for those 402 cars, and I
think I remember an informal one in So-Cal exclusively for the (maybe)
384 pushbutton Panteras. Both these last two disappeared years ago
without fanfare. In the late '90s, Martin Kreici in Switzerland started
a List of DeTomasos (mostly GR-4 & GT-4 Panteras, with serial numbers
and drivers) known to be involved in sanctioned World Sportscar Racing,
which I helped complete, but Martin no longer maintains this List.
Fortunately, I have that one in my archives. Rene Killer at the
DeTomaso Museum in Geneva also has an updated copy that I sent him.
There were at one point three more earlier DeTomaso Registries- the
first known was Bill Van Ess (Michigan)'s original self-funded Registry
dating from the early '90s, which I helped get started and which was
then taken over by Bill Milburn of Texas until about year 2000, and one
in England for mostly Euro DeTomasos run by Ben Tyle- once described as
"The European Gary Hall". That website also quietly disappeared a few
years ago. NONE of these Registries were ever adopted or sponsored by
POCA or any big Clubs, except that I gave both Bill Van Ess and Bill
Milburn years of free ads in the POCA Newsletter to try and get them
more entries. Response was disappointing. And being one-man efforts not
officially noticed or subsidized by POCA, PI or the DTDC in England,
the maintainers all eventually got tired of paddling by themselves and
folded.
What Michael Shortt is attempting to do is make sure that all the
colllected info from the previous 25-or-so years is not once again
lost. Being on-line, there are no known paper copies of most of the
Lists past or present; Pater Havlik's 9000-series Pantera list on DVD
(again, funded entirely by himself) is the exception. While Chuck has
apparently done a decent job on his own, there's NO guarantee how long
he will continue to host his offering, from his own billfold- note the
recorded lifespan so far for self-run DeTomaso Registries is not good.
Hence POCA is finally attempting to do something to preserve what
knowledge all these people have collected. Escalating prices for the
cars may be helping by focusing more attention on Panteras & Mangustas.
The main problem is, given the inordinate amount of work involved in
keeping a List up to date, the 'owners' are reluctant to simply hand
over their 'babies' to someone else for a smile and a handshake and
step away. But IMHO, that's the only long-term solution. Another
problem may be, some of these Lists have been copywrited so while
individuals can obtain a single copy for personal use, organizations
cannot.
J DeRyke
-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Dumoulin <rob at dumoulins.net>
To: The DeTomaso Registry Guy <detomasoregistry at gmail.com>
Cc: Pantera - DeTomaso Mail List <detomaso at poca.com>; Dick Koch
<redcatman74 at gmail.com>
Sent: Wed, Mar 2, 2016 11:12 am
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Coming POCA Registry
Chuck, sorry, I did not receive or read the posts you made on the
subject.A I have just read them. A
Thoughts, for what they are worth, are strictly to help come to a
mutual solution...
You clearly state that you do not have the time to do the job justice.
Nor would I.A Not many people do, but if we allow the community to
each own portions of their own entries, we spread that workload out.A
For those not members of POCA, maybe they can be thought of as
'prospects' and be encouraged to post the information already in the
registry on the POCA site.
I think the goal stated was to include and expand on the information
over what you have in your registry. Could the POCA site do that and
link to your site for the rest.A Maybe, but it may not be a seamless
experience.A Anybody else know of a technology that could make that
work?
Rob DuMoulin
904.476.8744
[1][1]rob at dumoulins.net
[2][2]www.kbsi.co
[3][3]http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
On Wed, Mar 2, 2016 at 1:21 PM, The DeTomaso Registry Guy
<[4][4]detomasoregistry at gmail.com> wrote:
Like other people, I am getting mail, well out of sequence.
I already sent out an answer regarding being the POCA registry guy,
and I have to decline, as I do not have the time to do the job
justice.
I might be willing to be an advisor, but that is all.
Now if you received and read my message "the numbers", you
understand that a
POCA-only registry would be a bad idea.A About 4,000 existing users
would
NOT be allowed to use a POCA-only registry, just the 1,000 POCA
members.
My questions for the POCA board still stand.A How can POCA improve
the registry? (for all)
I made just two suggestions.
If you missed my registry messages, see the forum archives, I just
confirmed they are present.
[5][5]http://poca.com/pipermail/detomaso_poca.com/2016-February/date.ht
ml
scroll to the bottom.
Chuck
Chuck, would you be open to such an arrangement?A A Not the hookers in
Vegas
part.I won't ask you to go on record about that.A You know what they
say,
"What happens in Vegas, can usually be cleared up by antibiotics".A
The
part that you could manage the registry hosted on a POCA site.A The
only
difference is that you would not have to pay for hosting yourself and
design and content could be enhanced and linked to other content.
Rob DuMoulin
[6]904.476.8744
[7][6]rob at dumoulins.net
[8][7]www.kbsi.co
[9][8]http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 4:26 PM, Dick Koch
<[10][9]redcatman74 at gmail.com>
wrote:
> In my opinion, Rob states the case for POCA to "house" the registry.
> However, since someone needs to be in charge of creating and managing
the
> registry, I would think that the club should create a "registry
management"
> position in which I would think Chuck would be the logical person to
> manage.
>
> He would be able to maintain his "banner" as the originator of the
> registry, and get additional resources to maintain and expand it.
>
> I can't believe I am saying this, but the only thing Chuck would have
to
> give up is complete control "for the greater good."
> On Feb 26, 2016 5:39 PM, "Rob Dumoulin" <[11][10]rob at dumoulins.net>
wrote:
>
>>A A I really do not understand the issue. This should not be about
Chuck
>>A A vs. POCA.AA This should be about what is best for the marque.
Chuck has
>>A A and is doing a wonderful and financially thankless service for
the
>>A A marque. There is nothing short of praise and/or lots of cash to
make up
>>A A for it. I cannot speak for you, Chuck, but this could be a
welcomed
>>A A burden lifted even though I am confident this is not considered
a
>>A A burden to you, but a passion.AA If I could buy you a drink,
hooker in
>>A A Vegas (hey, it's legal there), or whatever I could to show
appreciation
>>A A when I get a chance to meet you in person, I would.
>>A A But I see both sides. A
>>A A If something, God forbid, would happen to Chuck or his
registry, or if
>>A A Chuck decides he now wants to change his passion to collecting
hummels
>>A A of Italian street peasants instead, we would have to start
over. It
>>A A makes sense for the marque to carry this burden.
>>A A Flipside
>>A A Without Chuck's help or persuasion, we lack the non-POCA cars
in the
>>A A registry.
>>A A Is there not some way to do this together?AA Look, I've
personally been
>>A A in this situation professional before. I conceived, designed,
built,
>>A A and supported software that quickly was used all over the
world.AA The
>>A A first 3 years, I was the only support and took calls from
Australia at
>>A A 2 AM Monday morning when I was supposed to be on a plane at 6
AM to
>>A A travel for work. It was the hardest thing to turn over support
for my
>>A A 'baby' to an Indian team, but I did because it was really the
best way
>>A A to keep it growing and me sleeping at night.AA This should be
bigger
>>A A than us. It's hard, but we need to look at a big picture.
>>A A Rob DuMoulin
>>A A [12]904.476.8744
>>A A [1][13][11]rob at dumoulins.net
>>A A [2][14][12]www.kbsi.co
>>A A [3][15][13]http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
>>A A On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 1:58 PM, James coyne
>>A A <[4][16][14]tecnosound at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>A A A AA A Well stated Julian .
>>A A A AA A From: [5][17][15]julian_kift at hotmail.com
>>A A A AA A To: [6][18][16]michaelsavga at gmail.com;
[7][19][17]cengles at cox.net
>>A A A AA A Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2016 16:25:53 +0000
>>A A A AA A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Coming POCA Registry
>>A A A AA A CC: [8][20][18]detomaso at poca.com;
[9][21][19]garth_rodericks at yahoo.com
>>A A A Well I don't know the details of what Chuck was offered to
integrate
>>A A A his registr
>>A A A y with the new POCA one, but I am sympathetic to his stance
given
>>A A A that he's put
>>A A A years of hard work, long hours and money into something that
no one
>>A A A else wanted
>>A A A to take on for the longest time. He also provides free
access to
>>A A A that registry f
>>A A A or the simple task of a submission, a tactic which has
allowed him
>>A A A to amass well
>>A A A A over 4,000 entries. POCA has what, less than 1,000 members
to
>>A A A enter their detai
>>A A A ls? I think it will be some time before you can
categorically state
>>A A A that 'yours'
>>A A A A will be better, and as you state it "will be for the other
>>A A A registry members use
>>A A A A only" that predicates a POCA membership, thus to say it is
not for
>>A A A monetary gai
>>A A A n is a contradiction in terms.
>>A A A The Shelby American Automobile Club is licensed from Carrol
Shelby,
>>A A A they don't t
>>A A A heoretically own anything and it took law suits to get it
all
>>A A A straightened out.
>>A A A We are lucky that Santiago De Tomaso or whoever owns the De
Tomaso
>>A A A marque never
>>A A A chooses to get involved!
>>A A A I respectfully disagree that POCA needs to own the registry
and it
>>A A A hasn't seen t
>>A A A hat need for the past 45 years. If your vision is truly to
break
>>A A A down divisions
>>A A A within the marque then you I recommend you embrace what
Chuck and
>>A A A others before
>>A A A him have achieved and not be bickering over who owns what
and is
>>A A A bigger and bett
>>A A A er. The Provamo registry is currently THE foremost
collection of
>>A A A Pantera informa
>>A A A tion anywhere, period and should be recognized as such.
>>A A A Don't forget this is an open forum not POCA, if you want the
forum
>>A A A that 'needed'
>>A A A A to be owned by POCA it's on their website and the last
post was 3
>>A A A months ago...
>>A A A .. so I will continue to us my time how I see fit to voice
my
>>A A A opinions, even if
>>A A A I am the 1% minority, when everyone conforms it is no longer
a
>>A A A democracy.
>>A A A Julian
>>A A A ________________________________
>>A A A From: Michael Shortt <[10][22][20]michaelsavga at gmail.com>
>>A A A Sent: Friday, February 26, 2016 6:56 AM
>>A A A To: Charles Engles
>>A A A Cc: Julian Kift; [11][23][21]detomaso at poca.com; Garth Rodericks
>>A A A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Coming POCA Registry
>>A A A Chuck was asked ( 4 times ) and declined to work with us or
>>A A A integrate his with o
>>A A A urs.
>>A A A Furthermore, ours will be much better, with far more
information (
>>A A A if you choose
>>A A A A to upload yours )
>>A A A The Registry needs to be owned by POCA and carry on long
after we
>>A A A are all dead,
>>A A A Shelby owns theirs, as does every marque club.
>>A A A It is not a business, it is not a money maker, and it will
be for
>>A A A the other regi
>>A A A stry members to use only.
>>A A A Things are going to be changing for the better, perhaps if
everyone
>>A A A would use th
>>A A A eir time
>>A A A to improve the process ( like offer items to include ), it
would go
>>A A A better.
>>A A A I can tell you that once the final version comes out for
members to
>>A A A use, it prob
>>A A A ably won't be changed
>>A A A for two reasons, 1) those whom have already submitted their
car(s)
>>A A A out would hav
>>A A A e to do it again, 2) the expense
>>A A A of making those changes.AA I am not going to punish those
who comply
>>A A A and contribu
>>A A A te, nor am I going to be fiscally irresponsible.
>>A A A Michael Shortt
>>A A A On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 9:27 AM,
>>A A A
<[12][24][22]cengles at cox.net<[23]mailto:[13][25]cengles at cox.net>>
wrote
>>A A A :
>>A A A Dear Julian:AA Precisely.AA AA AA AA Warmest
regards,AA Chuck Engles
>>A A A On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 9:39 PM, Julian Kift wrote:
>>A A A You could add a link to Provamo.com and save a lot of
repetition
>>A A A work, just sayi
>>A A A ng....
>>A A A ________________________________________
>>A A A From: DeTomaso
>>A A A
<[14][26][24]detomaso-bounces at poca.com<[25]mailto:[15][27]detomaso-boun
ces at poca
.com>
>>A A A > on
>>A A A behalf of marshall smith
>>A A A
<[16][28][26]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net<[27]mailto:[17]marshallgsmith
@sbc
>>A A A [18][29]global.net>>
>>A A A Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2016 3:17 PM
>>A A A To: DeTomaso Mail List; Garth Rodericks
>>A A A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Coming POCA Registry
>>A A A You could add Pushbutton!
>>A A A --------------------------------------------
>>A A A On Thu, 2/25/16, Garth Rodericks via DeTomaso
>>A A A <[19][30][28]detomaso at poca.com<[29]mailto:[20]detomaso
>>A A A @[21][31]poca.com>> wrote:
>>A A A A Subject: [DeTomaso] Coming POCA Registry
>>A A A A To: "DeTomaso Mail List"
>>A A A
<[22][32][30]detomaso at poca.com<[31]mailto:[23][33]detomaso at poca.com>>
>>
>>A A A Date: Thursday, February 25, 2016, 10:52 AM
>>A A AA AA For all the
>>A A A categories, I'd start with a hierarchical organization and
>>A A AA AA add the ability to denote stock and
>>A A A modified.AA A simple checkbox for
>>A A AA AA "Modified" in each area could allow owners
>>A A A to enter the car's original
>>A A AA AA configuration as well as the current
>>A A A configuration, such as in the
>>A A AA AA example of a car that has since been
>>A A A winged and flared and listed as a
>>A A AA AA Gr4. Just a thought
>>A A AA AA Year
>>A A AA AA -->Model:
>>A A AA AA AA AA --> pre-L
>>A A AA AA AA AA --> L
>>A A AA AA AA AA --> GTS
>>A A AA AA AA AA --> Gr4
>>A A AA AA AA AA --> Gr5
>>A A AA AA AA AA --> GT5S
>>A A AA AA AA AA --> etc.
>>A A AA AA Cheers!
>>A A AA AA Garth
>>A A A -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>>A A A _______________________________________________
>>A A A Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>A A A Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>>A A A DeTomaso mailing list
>>
>>A A A A
[24][34][32]DeTomaso at poca.com<[33]mailto:[25][35]DeTomaso at poca.com>
>>A A A A
[1][26][36][34]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>A A A A To manage your subscription (change email address,
>>A A A A unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>>A A A _______________________________________________
>>A A A Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>A A A Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>>A A A DeTomaso mailing list
>>A A A
[27][37][35]DeTomaso at poca.com<[36]mailto:[28][38]DeTomaso at poca.com>
>>A A A
[2][29][39][37]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>A A A To manage your subscription (change email address,
unsubscribe,
>>A A A etc.) use the li
>>A A A nks above.
>>A A A _______________________________________________
>>A A A Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>A A A Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>>A A A DeTomaso mailing list
>>A A A
[30][40][38]DeTomaso at poca.com<[39]mailto:[31][41]DeTomaso at poca.com>
>>A A A
[3][32][42][40]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>A A A To manage your subscription (change email address,
unsubscribe,
>>A A A etc.) use the li
>>A A A nks above.
>>A A A _______________________________________________
>>A A A Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>A A A Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>>A A A DeTomaso mailing list
>>A A A
[33][43][41]DeTomaso at poca.com<[42]mailto:[34][44]DeTomaso at poca.com>
>>A A A
[4][35][45][43]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>A A A To manage your subscription (change email address,
unsubscribe,
>>A A A etc.) use the li
>>A A A nks above.
>>A A A --
>>A A A Michael L. Shortt
>>A A A Savannah, Georgia
>>A A A
[36][46][44]www.michaelshortt.com<[5][37][47]http://www.michaelshortt.c
om>
>>A A A
[38][48][45]michael at michaelshortt.com<[46]mailto:[39][49]michael at michae
lshortt.
com>
>>A A A [40]912-232-9390
>>A A A This email is protected by the Electronic Communications
Privacy
>>A A A Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be
legally
>>A A A privileged.AA If you are not the intended recipient, you
are hereby
>>A A A notified
>>A A A that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying
of this
>>A A A communication is strictly prohibited.AA Please reply to the
sender
>>A A A that you
>>A A A have received this message in error, then delete it.AA
Thank you
>>A A A AA A _______________________________________________
Detomaso Forum
>>A A A Managed
>>A A A AA A by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
DeTomaso
>>A A A mailing
>>A A A AA A list [41][50][47]DeTomaso at poca.com
>>A A A AA A
[42][51][48]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com To
>>A A A manage your
>>A A A AA A subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
use the
>>A A A links
>>A A A AA A above.
>>A A A References
>>A A A AA A 1.
[43][52][49]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>A A A AA A 2.
[44][53][50]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>A A A AA A 3.
[45][54][51]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>A A A AA A 4.
[46][55][52]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>A A A AA A 5. [47][56][53]http://www.michaelshortt.com/
>>A A A _______________________________________________
>>A A A Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>A A A Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>>A A A DeTomaso mailing list
>>A A A [48][57][54]DeTomaso at poca.com
>>A A A [49][58][55]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>A A A To manage your subscription (change email address,
unsubscribe,
>>A A A etc.) use the links above.
>>
>> References
>>
>>A A 1. [56]mailto:[59]rob at dumoulins.net
>>A A 2. [60][57]http://www.kbsi.co/
>>A A 3. [61][58]http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
>>A A 4. [59]mailto:[62]tecnosound at hotmail.com
>>A A 5. [60]mailto:[63]julian_kift at hotmail.com
>>A A 6. [61]mailto:[64]michaelsavga at gmail.com
>>A A 7. [62]mailto:[65]cengles at cox.net
>>A A 8. [63]mailto:[66]detomaso at poca.com
>>A A 9. [64]mailto:[67]garth_rodericks at yahoo.com
>>A A 10. [65]mailto:[68]michaelsavga at gmail.com
>>A A 11. [66]mailto:[69]detomaso at poca.com
>>A A 12. [67]mailto:[70]cengles at cox.net
>>A A 13. [68]mailto:[71]cengles at cox.net
>>A A 14. [69]mailto:[72]detomaso-bounces at poca.com
>>A A 15. [70]mailto:[73]detomaso-bounces at poca.com
>>A A 16. [71]mailto:[74]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
>>A A 17. [72]mailto:[75]marshallgsmith at sbc
>>A A 18. [76][73]http://global.net/
>>A A 19. [74]mailto:[77]detomaso at poca.com
>>A A 20. [75]mailto:[78]detomaso
>>A A 21. [79][76]http://poca.com/
>>A A 22. [77]mailto:[80]detomaso at poca.com
>>A A 23. [78]mailto:[81]detomaso at poca.com
>>A A 24. [79]mailto:[82]DeTomaso at poca.com
>>A A 25. [80]mailto:[83]DeTomaso at poca.com
>>A A 26. [84][81]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>A A 27. [82]mailto:[85]DeTomaso at poca.com
>>A A 28. [83]mailto:[86]DeTomaso at poca.com
>>A A 29. [87][84]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>A A 30. [85]mailto:[88]DeTomaso at poca.com
>>A A 31. [86]mailto:[89]DeTomaso at poca.com
>>A A 32. [90][87]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>A A 33. [88]mailto:[91]DeTomaso at poca.com
>>A A 34. [89]mailto:[92]DeTomaso at poca.com
>>A A 35. [93][90]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>A A 36. [94][91]http://www.michaelshortt.com/
>>A A 37. [95][92]http://www.michaelshortt.com/
>>A A 38. [93]mailto:[96]michael at michaelshortt.com
>>A A 39. [94]mailto:[97]michael at michaelshortt.com
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References
1. [106]mailto:rob at dumoulins.net
2. [107]http://www.kbsi.co/
3. [108]http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
4. [109]mailto:detomasoregistry at gmail.com
5.
[110]http://poca.com/pipermail/detomaso_poca.com/2016-February/date.htm
l
6. tel:904.476.8744
7. [111]mailto:rob at dumoulins.net
8. [112]http://www.kbsi.co/
9. [113]http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
10. [114]mailto:redcatman74 at gmail.com
11. [115]mailto:rob at dumoulins.net
12. tel:904.476.8744
13. [116]mailto:rob at dumoulins.net
14. [117]http://www.kbsi.co/
15. [118]http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
16. [119]mailto:tecnosound at hotmail.com
17. [120]mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
18. [121]mailto:michaelsavga at gmail.com
19. [122]mailto:cengles at cox.net
20. [123]mailto:detomaso at poca.com
21. [124]mailto:garth_rodericks at yahoo.com
22. [125]mailto:michaelsavga at gmail.com
23. [126]mailto:detomaso at poca.com
24. [127]mailto:cengles at cox.net
25. [128]mailto:cengles at cox.net
26. [129]mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
27. [130]mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
28. [131]mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
29. [132]http://global.net/
30. [133]mailto:detomaso at poca.com
31. [134]http://poca.com/
32. [135]mailto:detomaso at poca.com
33. [136]mailto:detomaso at poca.com
34. [137]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
35. [138]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
36. [139]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
37. [140]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
38. [141]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
39. [142]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
40. [143]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
41. [144]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
42. [145]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
43. [146]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
44. [147]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
45. [148]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
46. [149]http://www.michaelshortt.com/
47. [150]http://www.michaelshortt.com/
48. [151]mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
49. [152]mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
50. [153]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
51. [154]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
52. [155]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
53. [156]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
54. [157]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
55. [158]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
56. [159]http://www.michaelshortt.com/
57. [160]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
58. [161]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
59. [162]mailto:rob at dumoulins.net
60. [163]http://www.kbsi.co/
61. [164]http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
62. [165]mailto:tecnosound at hotmail.com
63. [166]mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
64. [167]mailto:michaelsavga at gmail.com
65. [168]mailto:cengles at cox.net
66. [169]mailto:detomaso at poca.com
67. [170]mailto:garth_rodericks at yahoo.com
68. [171]mailto:michaelsavga at gmail.com
69. [172]mailto:detomaso at poca.com
70. [173]mailto:cengles at cox.net
71. [174]mailto:cengles at cox.net
72. [175]mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
73. [176]mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
74. [177]mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
75. [178]mailto:marshallgsmith at sbc
76. [179]http://global.net/
77. [180]mailto:detomaso at poca.com
78. [181]mailto:detomaso
79. [182]http://poca.com/
80. [183]mailto:detomaso at poca.com
81. [184]mailto:detomaso at poca.com
82. [185]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
83. [186]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
84. [187]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
85. [188]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
86. [189]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
87. [190]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
88. [191]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
89. [192]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
90. [193]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
91. [194]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
92. [195]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
93. [196]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
94. [197]http://www.michaelshortt.com/
95. [198]http://www.michaelshortt.com/
96. [199]mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
97. [200]mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
98. tel:912-232-9390
99. [201]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
100. [202]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
101. [203]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
102. [204]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
103. [205]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
104. [206]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
105. [207]http://www.michaelshortt.com/
106. [208]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
107. [209]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
108. [210]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
109. [211]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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References
1. mailto:rob at dumoulins.net
2. http://www.kbsi.co/
3. http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
4. mailto:detomasoregistry at gmail.com
5. http://poca.com/pipermail/detomaso_poca.com/2016-February/date.ht
6. mailto:rob at dumoulins.net
7. http://www.kbsi.co/
8. http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
9. mailto:redcatman74 at gmail.com
10. mailto:rob at dumoulins.net
11. mailto:rob at dumoulins.net
12. http://www.kbsi.co/
13. http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
14. mailto:tecnosound at hotmail.com
15. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
16. mailto:michaelsavga at gmail.com
17. mailto:cengles at cox.net
18. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
19. mailto:garth_rodericks at yahoo.com
20. mailto:michaelsavga at gmail.com
21. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
22. mailto:cengles at cox.net
23. mailto:[13][25]cengles at cox.net?
24. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
25. mailto:[15][27]detomaso-bounces at poca?
26. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
27. mailto:[17]marshallgsmith at sbc?
28. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
29. mailto:[20]detomaso?
30. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
31. mailto:[23][33]detomaso at poca.com?
32. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
33. mailto:[25][35]DeTomaso at poca.com?
34. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
35. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
36. mailto:[28][38]DeTomaso at poca.com?
37. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
38. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
39. mailto:[31][41]DeTomaso at poca.com?
40. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
41. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
42. mailto:[34][44]DeTomaso at poca.com?
43. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
44. http://www.michaelshortt.com<[5][37][47]http//www.michaelshortt.com
45. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
46. mailto:[39][49]michael at michaelshortt?
47. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
48. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
49. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
50. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
51. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
52. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
53. http://www.michaelshortt.com/
54. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
55. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
56. mailto:[59]rob at dumoulins.net?
57. http://www.kbsi.co/
58. http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
59. mailto:[62]tecnosound at hotmail.com?
60. mailto:[63]julian_kift at hotmail.com?
61. mailto:[64]michaelsavga at gmail.com?
62. mailto:[65]cengles at cox.net?
63. mailto:[66]detomaso at poca.com?
64. mailto:[67]garth_rodericks at yahoo.com?
65. mailto:[68]michaelsavga at gmail.com?
66. mailto:[69]detomaso at poca.com?
67. mailto:[70]cengles at cox.net?
68. mailto:[71]cengles at cox.net?
69. mailto:[72]detomaso-bounces at poca.com?
70. mailto:[73]detomaso-bounces at poca.com?
71. mailto:[74]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net?
72. mailto:[75]marshallgsmith at sbc?
73. http://global.net/
74. mailto:[77]detomaso at poca.com?
75. mailto:[78]detomaso?
76. http://poca.com/
77. mailto:[80]detomaso at poca.com?
78. mailto:[81]detomaso at poca.com?
79. mailto:[82]DeTomaso at poca.com?
80. mailto:[83]DeTomaso at poca.com?
81. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
82. mailto:[85]DeTomaso at poca.com?
83. mailto:[86]DeTomaso at poca.com?
84. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
85. mailto:[88]DeTomaso at poca.com?
86. mailto:[89]DeTomaso at poca.com?
87. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
88. mailto:[91]DeTomaso at poca.com?
89. mailto:[92]DeTomaso at poca.com?
90. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
91. http://www.michaelshortt.com/
92. http://www.michaelshortt.com/
93. mailto:[96]michael at michaelshortt.com?
94. mailto:[97]michael at michaelshortt.com?
95. mailto:[99]DeTomaso at poca.com?
96. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
97. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
98. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
99. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
100. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
101. http://www.michaelshortt.com/
102. mailto:[106]DeTomaso at poca.com?
103. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
104. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
105. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
106. mailto:rob at dumoulins.net?
107. http://www.kbsi.co/
108. http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
109. mailto:detomasoregistry at gmail.com?
110. http://poca.com/pipermail/detomaso_poca.com/2016-February/date.html
111. mailto:rob at dumoulins.net?
112. http://www.kbsi.co/
113. http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
114. mailto:redcatman74 at gmail.com?
115. mailto:rob at dumoulins.net?
116. mailto:rob at dumoulins.net?
117. http://www.kbsi.co/
118. http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
119. mailto:tecnosound at hotmail.com?
120. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com?
121. mailto:michaelsavga at gmail.com?
122. mailto:cengles at cox.net?
123. mailto:detomaso at poca.com?
124. mailto:garth_rodericks at yahoo.com?
125. mailto:michaelsavga at gmail.com?
126. mailto:detomaso at poca.com?
127. mailto:cengles at cox.net?
128. mailto:cengles at cox.net?
129. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com?
130. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com?
131. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net?
132. http://global.net/
133. mailto:detomaso at poca.com?
134. http://poca.com/
135. mailto:detomaso at poca.com?
136. mailto:detomaso at poca.com?
137. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com?
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139. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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145. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
146. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com?
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148. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
149. http://www.michaelshortt.com/
150. http://www.michaelshortt.com/
151. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com?
152. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com?
153. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com?
154. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
155. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
156. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
157. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
158. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
159. http://www.michaelshortt.com/
160. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com?
161. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
162. mailto:rob at dumoulins.net?
163. http://www.kbsi.co/
164. http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
165. mailto:tecnosound at hotmail.com?
166. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com?
167. mailto:michaelsavga at gmail.com?
168. mailto:cengles at cox.net?
169. mailto:detomaso at poca.com?
170. mailto:garth_rodericks at yahoo.com?
171. mailto:michaelsavga at gmail.com?
172. mailto:detomaso at poca.com?
173. mailto:cengles at cox.net?
174. mailto:cengles at cox.net?
175. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com?
176. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com?
177. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net?
178. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbc?
179. http://global.net/
180. mailto:detomaso at poca.com?
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182. http://poca.com/
183. mailto:detomaso at poca.com?
184. mailto:detomaso at poca.com?
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187. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
188. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com?
189. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com?
190. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
191. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com?
192. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com?
193. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
194. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com?
195. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com?
196. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
197. http://www.michaelshortt.com/
198. http://www.michaelshortt.com/
199. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com?
200. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com?
201. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com?
202. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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207. http://www.michaelshortt.com/
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210. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com?
211. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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