[DeTomaso] Oil Temperatures
jderyke at aol.com
jderyke at aol.com
Wed Jun 22 14:34:38 EDT 2016
FWIW, I ran across an article written by a major oil company some years ago. They had fully instrumented a modified 350 engine on a dyno, and found that the oil IN THE MAIN BEARINGS ran an average of 20F HOTTER than what was shown by pan sensor.s So 275F pan temp may mean nearly 300F in the bearings! This is in the 'char' temp range for regular oil, and even with synthetics, it means the oil is so badly thinned out as to vastly reduce its load carrying capacity. In this test, pan temps were the coolest oil temps found while main bearing temps were highest
10 yrs ago, I installed a water-to-oil tubular Laminova used by Ford for heavy-duty applications. This is NOT the small thing that fits between the block & filter. It can be disassembled for cleaning. It substitutes for 13" of one of the big water tubes under the Pantera floor so oil lines are short and no extra water lines are needed. Ground clearance is not reduced. The Ford/Laminova has a front and a back- don't plumb it in backward or efficiency suffers. Fluidyne makes a welded rectangular water-to-oil cooler, but it is a little more bulky and is welder into one piece, making cleaning near-impossible if you lose an engine to any cause. Slver State racers found that both coolers will take about 15-18F off your worst-case loaded oil temp. I also added a MOCAL oil thermostat to ensure the cooler does NOT kick in during cool winter temps. The only other thing necessary is AT LEAST dash-8 areoquip oil lines for adequate oil flow; dash-10 is better. Note that ANY plastic parts such as check valves etc in lines, coolers or thermostats will melt at 275F & above. To my knowlege, no one has instrumented an ALUMINUM Fluidyne 10-qt oil pan but I wouldn't expect more than a 5F oil temp drop-if that.
J DeRyke
-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen <steve at snclocks.com>
To: 'Jack Donahue' <demongusta at gmail.com>
Cc: detomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Wed, Jun 22, 2016 10:49 am
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil Temperatures
Jack - yup, to my mind, the oil flows through the gaps in the bearings and helps to remove heat - as in the heat generated by the bearings doing their thing - keeping pieces of metal from making contact. Without the flow the bearings would get pretty toasty.Stephen Nelson-----Original Message-----From: Jack Donahue [mailto:demongusta at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 9:03 AMTo: Stephen <steve at snclocks.com>Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.comSubject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil TemperaturesStephan - thanks for more input, but did you mean the bearings are cooled with oil? I had an XKE - 64 - it ran a wee bit hot - needed an oil cooler. Age - the great equalizer. We fight it, but it always wins out - still looking for that watch/clock that runs CCW. But then again, I’m glad to have made it this far, unfortunately, a lot don’t. Jack#4348> On Jun 22, 2016, at 8:51 AM, Stephen <steve at snclocks.com> wrote:> > Good morning Jack. Years ago my dad explained to me that oil is the primary heat transfer agent in an engine. It is the closest to the things that get hot. OK - the heads are filled with water, which gets pretty hot, but the bearings, the pistons, the rings all get cooled with water.> > Just bought a SPC Daytona - with a 351 Dart block bored and stroked to 427. It came with an oil temperature gauge. Yup, oil runs 20 or 30 degrees F hotter. The Daytona also has an oil-cooler built into the radiator. > > I also have a '70 XKE. I added a factory oil cooler that I was lucky enough to snap up when a Jag aftermarket outfit found the cooler at a dealership they bought out. Overall - makes the engine just plain bulletproof when it comes to cooling.> > So, sounds like I am a big fan of oil coolers, eh? But, really, no. Modern multi-vis oils significantly extend the effectiveness of oils - I would, and do watch the water temperature in our Pantera, but honestly, I give no thoughts to the oil temperature. But then, as with you, I am probably on the old-man side of my driving. I don't track my cars but I do put miles on them.> > Thoughts of an old man contemplating cleaning up a car for a show tonight.> > Stephen Nelson> > > -----Original Message-----> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Jack Donahue> Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 8:16 AM> To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> Subject: [DeTomaso] Oil Temperatures> > Just wanted to thank everyone for their input on oil temperatures. The List and the participants are unique and indispensable, in my book. The thoughts and ideas are just great. In my case, the first thing I need is an oil temp gauge to see if it’s even an issue - so logical. I judge from my driving habits (old-man-style driving) I may not have to worry about it. But I do. I guess it’s a “Pantera-thing” to drive down the road in “readiness” for the next issue, because it WILL be there - Just a matter of time. "Upgrading Unlimited” - I love it. I get so “educated by The List. It’s like asking the workshop manual questions, and getting answers. > #4348> _______________________________________________> > > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso> > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.> > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.> _______________________________________________Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCAPosted emails must not exceed 1.5 MegabytesDeTomaso mailing listDeTomaso at server.detomasolist.comhttp://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomasoTo manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
-------------- next part --------------
FWIW, I ran across an article written by a major oil company some years
ago. They had fully instrumented a modified 350 engine on a dyno, and
found that the oil IN THE MAIN BEARINGS ran an average of 20F HOTTER
than what was shown by pan sensor.s So 275F pan temp may mean nearly
300F in the bearings! This is in the 'char' temp range for regular oil,
and even with synthetics, it means the oil is so badly thinned out as
to vastly reduce its load carrying capacity. In this test, pan temps
were the coolest oil temps found while main bearing temps were highest
10 yrs ago, I installed a water-to-oil tubular Laminova used by Ford
for heavy-duty applications. This is NOT the small thing that fits
between the block & filter. It can be disassembled for cleaning. It
substitutes for 13" of one of the big water tubes under the Pantera
floor so oil lines are short and no extra water lines are needed.
Ground clearance is not reduced. The Ford/Laminova has a front and a
back- don't plumb it in backward or efficiency suffers. Fluidyne makes
a welded rectangular water-to-oil cooler, but it is a little more bulky
and is welder into one piece, making cleaning near-impossible if you
lose an engine to any cause. Slver State racers found that both coolers
will take about 15-18F off your worst-case loaded oil temp. I also
added a MOCAL oil thermostat to ensure the cooler does NOT kick in
during cool winter temps. The only other thing necessary is AT LEAST
dash-8 areoquip oil lines for adequate oil flow; dash-10 is better.
Note that ANY plastic parts such as check valves etc in lines, coolers
or thermostats will melt at 275F & above. To my knowlege, no one has
instrumented an ALUMINUM Fluidyne 10-qt oil pan but I wouldn't expect
more than a 5F oil temp drop-if that.
J DeRyke
-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen <steve at snclocks.com>
To: 'Jack Donahue' <demongusta at gmail.com>
Cc: detomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Wed, Jun 22, 2016 10:49 am
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil Temperatures
Jack - yup, to my mind, the oil flows through the gaps in the bearings
and helps to remove heat - as in the heat generated by the bearings
doing their thing - keeping pieces of metal from making contact.
Without the flow the bearings would get pretty toasty. Stephen Nelson
-----Original Message----- From: Jack Donahue
[[1]mailto:demongusta at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 9:03 AM
To: Stephen <[2]steve at snclocks.com> Cc:
[3]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil
Temperatures Stephan - thanks for more input, but did you mean the
bearings are cooled with oil? I had an XKE - 64 - it ran a wee bit hot
- needed an oil cooler. Age - the great equalizer. We fight it, but it
always wins out - still looking for that watch/clock that runs CCW. But
then again, Iam glad to have made it this far, unfortunately, a lot
donat. Jack #4348 > On Jun 22, 2016, at 8:51 AM, Stephen
<[4]steve at snclocks.com> wrote: > > Good morning Jack. Years ago my dad
explained to me that oil is the primary heat transfer agent in an
engine. It is the closest to the things that get hot. OK - the heads
are filled with water, which gets pretty hot, but the bearings, the
pistons, the rings all get cooled with water. > > Just bought a SPC
Daytona - with a 351 Dart block bored and stroked to 427. It came with
an oil temperature gauge. Yup, oil runs 20 or 30 degrees F hotter. The
Daytona also has an oil-cooler built into the radiator. > > I also have
a '70 XKE. I added a factory oil cooler that I was lucky enough to snap
up when a Jag aftermarket outfit found the cooler at a dealership they
bought out. Overall - makes the engine just plain bulletproof when it
comes to cooling. > > So, sounds like I am a big fan of oil coolers,
eh? But, really, no. Modern multi-vis oils significantly extend the
effectiveness of oils - I would, and do watch the water temperature in
our Pantera, but honestly, I give no thoughts to the oil temperature.
But then, as with you, I am probably on the old-man side of my driving.
I don't track my cars but I do put miles on them. > > Thoughts of an
old man contemplating cleaning up a car for a show tonight. > > Stephen
Nelson > > > -----Original Message----- > From: DeTomaso
[[5]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Jack
Donahue > Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 8:16 AM > To:
[6]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com > Cc:
[7]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com > Subject: [DeTomaso] Oil
Temperatures > > Just wanted to thank everyone for their input on oil
temperatures. The List and the participants are unique and
indispensable, in my book. The thoughts and ideas are just great. In my
case, the first thing I need is an oil temp gauge to see if itas even
an issue - so logical. I judge from my driving habits (old-man-style
driving) I may not have to worry about it. But I do. I guess itas a
aPantera-thinga to drive down the road in areadinessa for the next
issue, because it WILL be there - Just a matter of time. "Upgrading
Unlimiteda - I love it. I get so aeducated by The List. Itas like
asking the workshop manual questions, and getting answers. > #4348 >
_______________________________________________ > > > Detomaso Forum NO
LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
DeTomaso mailing list [8]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
[9]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To
manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use
the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant license to the
list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future
members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to
maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. >
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