[DeTomaso] High Torque Mini Starters - Need a Recommendation

[MikeLDrew at aol.com]

In a message dated 6/20/16 5:36:39 PM, mbefthomas at comcast.net writes:


> You may recall some time ago I posted about a hard start issue when the 
> car
> was warm.  The two most common solutions offered were timing adjustment 
> and
> bad solenoid on the starter.  I've adjusted the timing and she's running
> like raped ape, but still has the hard start.  So, I need to replace my 
> mini
> starter (solenoid is integral).  I see a number of them on Ebay for prices
> that only say "too good to be true".
> 
> What does the collective have as a recommendation?
> 

>>>First of all, don't suspect your starter as the culprit until you've 
eliminated all other possibilities, all of which are more likely.  The fact 
that you already have a mini starter tells me that your problem almost 
assuredly lies elsewhere, as your starter has probably only seen a fraction of the 
use that one would expect before a problem would normally crop up.

The first and most obvious question is:   how is your battery?   A weak 
battery will start a cold engine just fine, but struggle with a hot engine.   
An old battery might show 12V or greater but have relatively few amps 
available when you need them.   I just went through this on one of my Sciroccos 
which has a relatively new battery, good charging system, but the 650 CCA (cold 
cranking amps) battery only had about 350 amps available when tested.   
After a long stint with a trickle charger it went up to 625 CCA.   I don't know 
how long that's going to last though.

Batteries suffer from lack of use, and chances are you don't drive your 
Pantera often enough to 'exercise' the battery enough to prolong its life.   
Having a battery disconnect to isolate it from the electrical system will (for 
reasons I don't pretend to understand) greatly increase its lifespan, but 
eventually even the best battery will succomb to old age.

How are your connections?   The battery cable has a very long path which 
makes its job much harder.   Checking your battery ground (short cable or 
strap from the negative terminal to the chassis in the front trunk) is an 
obvious first step.   There is also a ground strap from the back of the gearbox to 
the chassis.   It's also recommended to run yet another ground strap from 
one of the starter studs to one of the bolts securing the aluminum motor 
mount to the chassis.   More grounds is better grounds. :>)

Once you have positively eliminated ANY of those possible conditions, then 
and only then should you consider the prospect of a bad starter.   Lots and 
lots of people have had great luck with the units from DB Electrical:

http://www.dbelectrical.com/p-11368-ford-mini-pmgr-starter-302-351-manual-tr
ansmissions-3223-sfd0012.aspx

Normally you would have to ask for the included aux wiring kit, but since 
you already have a mini-starter I'm assuming you've already rewired the car 
to accomodate it?   If not it certainly doesn't hurt to ask for the free 
wiring kit (they won't include it unless you ask).

The flange is a fair bit thicker than the stock Ford starter, so I normally 
install longer studs in the bellhousing.   I also use small-diameter nuts 
for easier socket access.   The standard size for a nut with that thread 
size/pitch is 17mm; you can get flange nuts that use a 15mm socket, and ARP 
makes super-duper 12mm nuts that use a 12-point socket.   Of course you have to 
be sure you have a 12mm deep socket or else you can't install them!

Mike
-------------- next part --------------
   In a message dated 6/20/16 5:36:39 PM, mbefthomas at comcast.net writes:

     You may recall some time ago I posted about a hard start issue when
     the car
     was warm.  The two most common solutions offered were timing
     adjustment and
     bad solenoid on the starter.  I've adjusted the timing and she's
     running
     like raped ape, but still has the hard start.  So, I need to replace
     my mini
     starter (solenoid is integral).  I see a number of them on Ebay for
     prices
     that only say "too good to be true".
     What does the collective have as a recommendation?

   >>>First of all, don't suspect your starter as the culprit until you've
   eliminated all other possibilities, all of which are more likely. The
   fact that you already have a mini starter tells me that your problem
   almost assuredly lies elsewhere, as your starter has probably only seen
   a fraction of the use that one would expect before a problem would
   normally crop up.
   The first and most obvious question is:  how is your battery?  A weak
   battery will start a cold engine just fine, but struggle with a hot
   engine.  An old battery might show 12V or greater but have relatively
   few amps available when you need them.  I just went through this on one
   of my Sciroccos which has a relatively new battery, good charging
   system, but the 650 CCA (cold cranking amps) battery only had about 350
   amps available when tested.  After a long stint with a trickle charger
   it went up to 625 CCA.  I don't know how long that's going to last
   though.
   Batteries suffer from lack of use, and chances are you don't drive your
   Pantera often enough to 'exercise' the battery enough to prolong its
   life.  Having a battery disconnect to isolate it from the electrical
   system will (for reasons I don't pretend to understand) greatly
   increase its lifespan, but eventually even the best battery will
   succomb to old age.
   How are your connections?  The battery cable has a very long path which
   makes its job much harder.  Checking your battery ground (short cable
   or strap from the negative terminal to the chassis in the front trunk)
   is an obvious first step.  There is also a ground strap from the back
   of the gearbox to the chassis.  It's also recommended to run yet
   another ground strap from one of the starter studs to one of the bolts
   securing the aluminum motor mount to the chassis.  More grounds is
   better grounds. :>)
   Once you have positively eliminated ANY of those possible conditions,
   then and only then should you consider the prospect of a bad starter.
   Lots and lots of people have had great luck with the units from DB
   Electrical:
   http://www.dbelectrical.com/p-11368-ford-mini-pmgr-starter-302-351-manu
   al-transmissions-3223-sfd0012.aspx
   Normally you would have to ask for the included aux wiring kit, but
   since you already have a mini-starter I'm assuming you've already
   rewired the car to accomodate it?  If not it certainly doesn't hurt to
   ask for the free wiring kit (they won't include it unless you ask).
   The flange is a fair bit thicker than the stock Ford starter, so I
   normally install longer studs in the bellhousing.  I also use
   small-diameter nuts for easier socket access.  The standard size for a
   nut with that thread size/pitch is 17mm; you can get flange nuts that
   use a 15mm socket, and ARP makes super-duper 12mm nuts that use a
   12-point socket.  Of course you have to be sure you have a 12mm deep
   socket or else you can't install them!
   Mike