[DeTomaso] Oil temperature
Tomas Gunnarsson
guson at home.se
Sun Jun 12 16:07:47 EDT 2016
I'm rather confident that the Ford units are the same interior core
diameter, possibly a different length, as the universal coolers sold by
Mocal and others.
Tomas
<-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
From: Jeff Cobb [jeffcobb1 at me.com]
Sent: 12/6/2016 8:17:14 PM
To: kenn_green at yahoo.com
Cc:
jeffcobb1 at me.com;ehpantera at yahoo.com;MikeLDrew at aol.com;guson at home.se;det
omaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil temperature
Ken,
Laminovas do a great job of heat rejection.
The Laminovas I have and would like to use are about 43mm exterior core
dia by 332 long.
I would believe the Fords are smaller.
Their best use would be to have, as used in some cars, an dynamic a/c
freon/oil or coolant or
turbo/supercharged pressured intake interface.
Here is some info,
http://97.74.32.155/files/laminova.pdf
Jeff Cobb
On Jun 12, 2016, at 12:22 PM, Ken Green < kenn_green at yahoo.com
<mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com> > wrote:
Jeff,
Do you think the "Laminova" type oil coolers the Ford used
do a very good job? I don't think the Ford coolers have the cooling
capacity of the coolers made by Laminova? Seems like they also restrict
coolant flow.
Ken
_____
From: Jeff Cobb < jeffcobb1 at me.com <mailto:jeffcobb1 at me.com> >
To: mark skwarek < ehpantera at yahoo.com
<mailto:ehpantera at yahoo.com> >; Mike Drew < MikeLDrew at aol.com
<mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com> >; Tomas Gunnarsson < guson at home.se
<mailto:guson at home.se> >; " detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
<mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> " <
detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
<mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> >
Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2016 9:14 AM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil temperature
Interesting thread.
It has been documented many decades back in the aircraft
industry that heat exchangers
were more efficient if the exchangers airflow speed was much
lower than the vehicles speed.
Cooling air needs time to conduct air from the cooling
fins/coils surfaces otherwise the fins
boundary air allows the laminar air rushing through to not touch
the hot metal fins.
So the ducts entry area needs to be less than the coolers
surface area, maybe by 1/4th.
Oil temps should always be warmer than the coolant up to about
coolants 210 F, though the oil
heat rejection reserve capacity must be greater than that of the
coolants so that at extreme temps
the oils temp does not rise quicker nor higher than the coolant.
After 230F + -, oil temps under load will rise much quicker than coolant
temps so a larger reserve
heat rejection option relative to coolants reserve design must
be present so to not allow dangerous
oil temps, ie; 280F.
The oil is primary in cooling all the interior heated parts
directly whereas coolant takes heat from
surfaces that are secondary heat conductors, are a slave to
radiated heat or metals that capture/hold
heat from friction.
Large oil coolers with a thermostatic controlled variable duct
nozzle entry and thermostatically controlled
oil flow may work the best in heat rejection to air.
Whereas a Laminova tubular coolers work the best in a cooling
liquid because of the high surface area
and has a better ability to keep both temp closer together.
Keep cool,
Jeff Cobb
On Jun 12, 2016, at 8:26 AM, mark skwarek via DeTomaso <
detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
<mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> > wrote:
> My oil cooler is mounted horizontally in front of the right
rear wheel.
> I have a separate oil pump to circulate the oil. Last year I
ran some
> ducting from my front spoiler to the oil cooler. While
running at SSCC
> last year 140 to 160 my oil temp was at 190 if I left the oil
pump
> running. I'm changing back to a scoop in front of the wheel
to see what
> happens this year.
> Mark
> 5481
> On Sunday, June 12, 2016 4:47 AM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso
> < detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
<mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> > wrote:
> Agreed--I think the wheel well-mounted air-oil cooler was a
> monumental
> act of wishful thinking....
> Mike
> Sent from my iPad
> On Jun 12, 2016, at 1:43 AM, Tomas Gunnarsson <[1][1]
guson at home.se <mailto:guson at home.se> >
> wrote:
> What makes an air/oil cooler work is airflow through the
cooler fins.
> I
> doubt that the pressure difference over an oil cooler in
that
> position
> is significant, so it has limited effect on oil temp.
> Tomas
> <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
> From: Scott Mead Photography
> [[2][2] scott at scottmeadphotography.com
<mailto:scott at scottmeadphotography.com> ]
> Sent: 11/6/2016 11:56:18 PM
> To: [3][3] demongusta at gmail.com
<mailto:demongusta at gmail.com> ;[4][4] MikeLDrew at aol.com
<mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com>
> Cc: [5][5] detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
<mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil temperature
> Many moons ago, I saw a setup at Gary Hall's shop: He had
installed a
> reverse-louvered, splash panel on the right rear with an
oil cooler
> mounted to the inside (non-tire side) of the shield. The
philosophy
> was
> that the spinning tire would provide a constant stream of
air through
> the louvers at speed, cooling the oil. Whether it
effectively worked,
> I
> have no idea, but it was a clean setup.
> FWIW,
> Scott
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso
> [[6]mailto:[6] detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
<mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> ] On
> Behalf Of Jack Donahue
> Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2016 10:55 AM
> To: Mike Drew
> Cc: [7][7] detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
<mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil temperature
> Out of curiosity, where would you add an oil cooler? And
would it be
> an
> air-to-liquid - or - liquid-to-liquid cooler? Having moved
the A/C
> condenser to the front, I was thinking of using the
original
> condenser-space for an air-to-liquid cooler with a pusher
fan. I get
> the feeling, however, that it's a waste of time, which
sounds
> good/great to me. The old "track-pushing-hard" syndrome
left me a few
> years back. Always looking for a way to NOT look at the
temp gauge on
> hot days in traffic.
>> On Jun 11, 2016, at 1:40 PM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso
> <[8][8] detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
<mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> > wrote:
>>
>> AJ,
>>
>> Since you had instrumentation, what were your temps when
driving at
> freeway speeds?
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jun 11, 2016, at 13:18, Asa Jay Laughton
> <[9][9] asajay at asajay.com <mailto:asajay at asajay.com> >
> wrote:
>>
>>> Talking with another open road racer a few years ago about
this
> topic, I was told you want about 230 degrees F and nothing
near 290.
> That's a nearly 60 degree difference. But the way he gave
me the
> information makes me think you want to make sure you stay
down around
> 230. People smarter than me will know a lot more than me. I
also run
> Amsoil full synthetic and there is a temp for viscocity
breakdown but
> I
> don't have the spec in front of me.
>>>
>>> For open road racing, depnding on the engine build and
speed, a
> racer will definitely want an oil cooler. Last year I ran
the 120
> class
> and spent a good amount of time near 130. My oil temp ran
right
> around
> 230, so I knew if I wanted to move up to the 130-140 class,
I'd need
> to
> add an oil cooler.
>>>
>>> Your mileage may vary,
>>> Asa Jay
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Quoting Jack Donahue <[10][10] demongusta at gmail.com
<mailto:demongusta at gmail.com> >:
>>>
>>>> Once again, as summer approaches, cooling becomes an issue
and
> topic of some discussion. Rather than beating the radiator,
water
> pump,
> thermostat, and pressure cap horses to death, I thought I
would
> pursue
> the oil temperature. So, all you gurus, what is the normal
range of
> an
> oil temperature in these beautiful beasts? My next little
project
> (get
> in line) is to install an oil temp gauge. Waste of time? I
guess I
> need
> some feedback. All input is appreciated.
>>>> #4348
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must
not
>>>> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list
>>>> [11][11] DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
<mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
>>>> [12][12]
http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>>
>>>> To manage your subscription (change email address,
unsubscribe,
> etc.) use the links above.
>>>>
>>&g
=== message truncated ===
-------------- next part --------------
I'm rather confident that the Ford units are the same interior core
diameter, possibly a different length, as the universal coolers sold by
Mocal and others.
Tomas
<-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
From: Jeff Cobb [jeffcobb1 at me.com]
Sent: 12/6/2016 8:17:14 PM
To: kenn_green at yahoo.com
Cc:
jeffcobb1 at me.com;ehpantera at yahoo.com;MikeLDrew at aol.com;guson at home.se;de
tomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil temperature
Ken,
Laminovas do a great job of heat rejection.
The Laminovas I have and would like to use are about 43mm exterior core
dia by 332 long.
I would believe the Fords are smaller.
Their best use would be to have, as used in some cars, an dynamic a/c
freon/oil or coolant or
turbo/supercharged pressured intake interface.
Here is some info,
[1]http://97.74.32.155/files/laminova.pdf
Jeff Cobb
On Jun 12, 2016, at 12:22 PM, Ken Green <[2]kenn_green at yahoo.com>
wrote:
Jeff,
Do you think the "Laminova" type oil coolers the Ford used do a
very good job? I don't think the Ford coolers have the cooling
capacity of the coolers made by Laminova? Seems like they also
restrict coolant flow.
Ken
__________________________________________________________________
From: Jeff Cobb <[3]jeffcobb1 at me.com>
To: mark skwarek <[4]ehpantera at yahoo.com>; Mike Drew
<[5]MikeLDrew at aol.com>; Tomas Gunnarsson <[6]guson at home.se>;
"[7]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com"
<[8]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2016 9:14 AM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil temperature
Interesting thread.
It has been documented many decades back in the aircraft industry that
heat exchangers
were more efficient if the exchangers airflow speed was much lower than
the vehicles speed.
Cooling air needs time to conduct air from the cooling fins/coils
surfaces otherwise the fins
boundary air allows the laminar air rushing through to not touch the
hot metal fins.
So the ducts entry area needs to be less than the coolers surface area,
maybe by 1/4th.
Oil temps should always be warmer than the coolant up to about coolants
210 F, though the oil
heat rejection reserve capacity must be greater than that of the
coolants so that at extreme temps
the oils temp does not rise quicker nor higher than the coolant.
After 230F + -, oil temps under load will rise much quicker than
coolant temps so a larger reserve
heat rejection option relative to coolants reserve design must be
present so to not allow dangerous
oil temps, ie; 280F.
The oil is primary in cooling all the interior heated parts directly
whereas coolant takes heat from
surfaces that are secondary heat conductors, are a slave to radiated
heat or metals that capture/hold
heat from friction.
Large oil coolers with a thermostatic controlled variable duct nozzle
entry and thermostatically controlled
oil flow may work the best in heat rejection to air.
Whereas a Laminova tubular coolers work the best in a cooling liquid
because of the high surface area
and has a better ability to keep both temp closer together.
Keep cool,
Jeff Cobb
On Jun 12, 2016, at 8:26 AM, mark skwarek via DeTomaso
<[9]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
> My oil cooler is mounted horizontally in front of the right rear
wheel.
> I have a separate oil pump to circulate the oil. Last year I ran
some
> ducting from my front spoiler to the oil cooler. While running at
SSCC
> last year 140 to 160 my oil temp was at 190 if I left the oil pump
> running. I'm changing back to a scoop in front of the wheel to see
what
> happens this year.
> Mark
> 5481
> On Sunday, June 12, 2016 4:47 AM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso
> <[10]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
> Agreed--I think the wheel well-mounted air-oil cooler was a
> monumental
> act of wishful thinking....
> Mike
> Sent from my iPad
> On Jun 12, 2016, at 1:43 AM, Tomas Gunnarsson
<[1][1][11]guson at home.se>
> wrote:
> What makes an air/oil cooler work is airflow through the cooler
fins.
> I
> doubt that the pressure difference over an oil cooler in that
> position
> is significant, so it has limited effect on oil temp.
> Tomas
> <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
> From: Scott Mead Photography
> [[2][2][12]scott at scottmeadphotography.com]
> Sent: 11/6/2016 11:56:18 PM
> To: [3][3][13]demongusta at gmail.com;[4][4][14]MikeLDrew at aol.com
> Cc: [5][5][15]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil temperature
> Many moons ago, I saw a setup at Gary Hall's shop: He had
installed a
> reverse-louvered, splash panel on the right rear with an oil
cooler
> mounted to the inside (non-tire side) of the shield. The
philosophy
> was
> that the spinning tire would provide a constant stream of air
through
> the louvers at speed, cooling the oil. Whether it effectively
worked,
> I
> have no idea, but it was a clean setup.
> FWIW,
> Scott
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso
> [[6]mailto:[6][16]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On
> Behalf Of Jack Donahue
> Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2016 10:55 AM
> To: Mike Drew
> Cc: [7][7][17]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil temperature
> Out of curiosity, where would you add an oil cooler? And would it
be
> an
> air-to-liquid - or - liquid-to-liquid cooler? Having moved the A/C
> condenser to the front, I was thinking of using the original
> condenser-space for an air-to-liquid cooler with a pusher fan. I
get
> the feeling, however, that it's a waste of time, which sounds
> good/great to me. The old "track-pushing-hard" syndrome left me a
few
> years back. Always looking for a way to NOT look at the temp gauge
on
> hot days in traffic.
>> On Jun 11, 2016, at 1:40 PM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso
> <[8][8][18]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
>>
>> AJ,
>>
>> Since you had instrumentation, what were your temps when driving at
> freeway speeds?
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jun 11, 2016, at 13:18, Asa Jay Laughton
> <[9][9][19]asajay at asajay.com>
> wrote:
>>
>>> Talking with another open road racer a few years ago about this
> topic, I was told you want about 230 degrees F and nothing near
290.
> That's a nearly 60 degree difference. But the way he gave me the
> information makes me think you want to make sure you stay down
around
> 230. People smarter than me will know a lot more than me. I also
run
> Amsoil full synthetic and there is a temp for viscocity breakdown
but
> I
> don't have the spec in front of me.
>>>
>>> For open road racing, depnding on the engine build and speed, a
> racer will definitely want an oil cooler. Last year I ran the 120
> class
> and spent a good amount of time near 130. My oil temp ran right
> around
> 230, so I knew if I wanted to move up to the 130-140 class, I'd
need
> to
> add an oil cooler.
>>>
>>> Your mileage may vary,
>>> Asa Jay
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Quoting Jack Donahue <[10][10][20]demongusta at gmail.com>:
>>>
>>>> Once again, as summer approaches, cooling becomes an issue and
> topic of some discussion. Rather than beating the radiator, water
> pump,
> thermostat, and pressure cap horses to death, I thought I would
> pursue
> the oil temperature. So, all you gurus, what is the normal range
of
> an
> oil temperature in these beautiful beasts? My next little project
> (get
> in line) is to install an oil temp gauge. Waste of time? I guess I
> need
> some feedback. All input is appreciated.
>>>> #4348
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not
>>>> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list
>>>> [11][11][21]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>>
[12][12][22]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>>
>>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
> etc.) use the links above.
>>>>
>>&g
=== message truncated ===
References
1. http://97.74.32.155/files/laminova.pdf
2. mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com
3. mailto:jeffcobb1 at me.com
4. mailto:ehpantera at yahoo.com
5. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
6. mailto:guson at home.se
7. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
8. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
9. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
10. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
11. mailto:guson at home.se
12. mailto:scott at scottmeadphotography.com
13. mailto:demongusta at gmail.com
14. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
15. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
16. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
17. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
18. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
19. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
20. mailto:demongusta at gmail.com
21. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
22. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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