[DeTomaso] DeTomaso Digest, Vol 144, Issue 9
Owen Cooke
owen at tadhgcooke.com
Thu Jun 9 12:15:04 EDT 2016
If you cannot get a brake pressure switch that fits you have two options
fit a contact switch above the brake pedal or use another pressure
switch as used in most older british and european casrs
you just need to get fittings to match but you fit them to any part of
the main brake lines
owen dublin
On 09/06/2016 17:00, detomaso-request at server.detomasolist.com wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Shout out (Forest Goodhart)
> 2. Re: Techno Question: How to check U joints integrity? (B Hower)
> 3. Re: POCA business on this forum (Dave)
> 4. Re: POCA business on this forum (Ken Green)
> 5. Re: POCA business on this forum (Dave)
> 6. Re: NPC - Processed some vintage race in-car footage (Kurt Byrnes)
> 7. Anybody know.... (Tom Shinrock)
> 8. FW: Anybody know.... (The DeTomaso Registry Guy)
> 9. Re: Anybody know.... (cengles at cox.net)
> 10. Re: POCA (cengles at cox.net)
> 11. Re: NPC - Processed some vintage race in-car footage
> (Gray Gregory)
> 12. Re: POCA (Stephen)
> 13. Re: POCA (audionut at hushmail.com)
> 14. Re: POCA (Ken Green)
> 15. Re: POCA (Effie Richards)
> 16. Re: POCA (scottcouchman at yahoo.com)
> 17. Re: POCA (fastgrandma)
> 18. Re: POCA Now, Off his meds? (Ken Green)
> 19. New POCA video (Ed Mendez)
> 20. Re: POCA business on this forum (Ed Mendez)
> 21. Re: POCA Now, Off his meds? (Dave)
> 22. Re: POCA Now, Off his meds? (Ed Mendez)
> 23. Re: POCA Now, Off his meds? (Himes, Terry (397C))
> 24. Re: Anybody know.... (Judith McCartney)
> 25. Re: POCA (Charles Engles)
> 26. Re: POCA (Will Kooiman)
> 27. Re: POCA (Scott Mead Photography)
> 28. Re: POCA business on this forum (Will Kooiman)
> 29. Re: POCA business on this forum (Ed Mendez)
> 30. Re: POCA business on this forum (Will Kooiman)
> 31. Yellow Goose for sale (Nolan)
> 32. Re: New POCA video (Pantdino)
> 33. Re: POCA (Douglas Kelm)
> 34. Re: Yellow Goose for sale (The DeTomaso Registry Guy)
> 35. Re: POCA business on this forum (Jack Donahue)
> 36. Re: POCA business on this forum (Konrad Szwab)
> 37. Re: POCA business on this forum (Charles Engles)
> 38. Re: POCA business on this forum (James coyne)
> 39. 2511 and State Farm (Larry Finch)
> 40. Re: 2511 and State Farm (L GRAY)
> 41. Re: 2511 and State Farm (Tom Shinrock)
> 42. Re: 2511 and State Farm (Effie Richards)
> 43. Re: POCA business on this forum (Effie Richards)
> 44. Re: POCA (Effie Richards)
> 45. Re: 2511 and State Farm (Larry Finch)
> 46. Re: POCA (MyCars)
> 47. Re: 2511 and State Farm (Dennis Valdez)
> 48. Re: 2511 and State Farm (Bill Moore)
> 49. Re: POCA (Effie Richards)
> 50. Re: Shout out (Thomas Tornblom)
> 51. Re: 2511 and State Farm (Richard Greenblum)
> 52. Re: POCA business on this forum (Robert Pink)
> 53. Hooking an MSD 6AL Rev Limiter to disengage the A/C
> Compressor (Rob Dumoulin)
> 54. Again with the threats! (Kurt Byrnes)
> 55. Re: 2511 and State Farm (Larry - Ohio Time)
> 56. Re: Again with the threats! (Konrad Szwab)
> 57. Re: POCA business on this forum (Dave)
> 58. Re: Again with the threats! (cengles at cox.net)
> 59. Re: Hooking an MSD 6AL Rev Limiter to disengage the A/C
> Compressor (Charles McCall)
> 60. Re: Again with the threats! (Charles McCall)
> 61. Re: Hooking an MSD 6AL Rev Limiter to disengage the A/C
> Compressor (Rob Dumoulin)
> 62. Re: Hooking an MSD 6AL Rev Limiter to disengage the A/C
> Compressor (bill gaino)
> 63. Re: Again with the threats! (Joseph F. Byrd, Jr.)
> 64. Re: Again with the threats! (Stephen)
> 65. Great things that have happened because of This List (many
> moons ago) (Charles McCall)
> 66. Re: 2511 and State Farm (Mark Charlton)
> 67. Re: Great things that have happened because of This List
> (many moons ago) (Bill Lewis)
> 68. Re: Again with the threats! (Mark Charlton)
> 69. NPC: BBC item (cengles at cox.net)
> 70. Re: Great things that have happened because of This List
> (many moons ago) (Effie Richards)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 16:44:39 +0000 (UTC)
> From: Forest Goodhart <forestg at att.net>
> To: Mike Drew <MikeLDrew at aol.com>, Thomas Tornblom <thomas at hax.se>
> Cc: "detomaso at server.detomasolist.com"
> <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Shout out
> Message-ID:
> <620137675.488296.1465404279356.JavaMail.yahoo at mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Actually it is not a tapered pipe thread. It is a straight thread with an inverted flare seat. I have not measured the thread pitch but I think it is?SAE as opposed to metric.?Forest
>
> From: Mike Drew via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> To: Thomas Tornblom <thomas at hax.se>
> Cc: "detomaso at server.detomasolist.com" <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>; Forest Goodhart <forestg at att.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 8:52 AM
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Shout out
>
> Thomas,
>
> I think it's a tapered pipe thread?
>
> Mike
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jun 7, 2016, at 23:43, Thomas Tornblom <thomas at hax.se> wrote:
>
>> I would be very surprised if it had any thread other than M10x1.
>>
>> Thomas
>>
>> Den 2016-06-07 kl. 22:36, skrev Mike Drew:
>>> Thomas,
>>>
>>> The valve block is almost assuredly a Euro Ford part, maybe common with a Transit van or something like that...
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Jun 7, 2016, at 13:00, thomas <thomas at hax.se> wrote:
>>>
>>>> ? The shuttle valve looks very similar to late 1960:s early 1970:s Volvo.
>>>> ? However they did not have a hydraulic switch.
>>>>
>>>> ? Many European cars of the era had switches that look very similar.
>>>> ? Earlier single circuit Volvos, VW, Saab could be potential donors.
>>>>
>>>> ? What
>>>> ? about: [1]http://www.napaonline.com/napa/en/search/?text=Brake+light+sw
>>>> ? itch
>>>>
>>>> ? Thomas
>>>>
>>>> ? 7 juni 2016 kl. 21:36 skrev Forest Goodhart <[2]forestg at att.net>:
>>>>
>>>> ? ? Tom,
>>>> ? ? ? I've never found a brake light switch anywhere other than a Pantera
>>>> ? ? vendor. I have tried NAPA and other parts stores but without luck. If
>>>> ? ? the source of the shuttle valve could be determined you might then be
>>>> ? ? able to source one.
>>>> ? ? Forest
>>>> ? ? ? __________________________________________________________________
>>>> ? ? From: Tom Shinrock via DeTomaso <[3]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
>>>> ? ? To: [4]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>> ? ? Sent: Tuesday, June 7, 2016 10:41 AM
>>>> ? ? Subject: [DeTomaso] Shout out
>>>> ? ? ? All,
>>>> ? ? ? I drove my Pantera from Iowa to St. Charles, IL to attend the Great
>>>> ? ? ? Lakes Pantera chapter's Spring Fling.? I've attended all of these
>>>> ? ? since
>>>> ? ? ? the first one three years ago.? As usual, it was good to see old
>>>> ? ? ? friends and meet new ones.? I believe Jon Haas has attended all of
>>>> ? ? ? these events to showcase his electronic products designed for the
>>>> ? ? ? Pantera.
>>>> ? ? ? It is always enjoyable to talk to Jon and see him demonstrate his
>>>> ? ? ? stuff.
>>>> ? ? ? This year it was fortuitous for me to have Jon attend because for
>>>> ? the
>>>> ? ? ? first time in 30 years I had car trouble.? The car ran great on the
>>>> ? ? ? drive to St. Charles and it ran with no problems to the cars and
>>>> ? ? coffee
>>>> ? ? ? event we attended on Saturday morning.? Come Sunday morning when we
>>>> ? ? are
>>>> ? ? ? getting ready to leave the hotel for breakfast, my car wouldn't
>>>> ? stay
>>>> ? ? ? running.? It started immediately and then died.? Lots of cranking
>>>> ? ? ? followed with no start.
>>>> ? ? ? Dave Doddek (GLP chapter president)? immediately came to my aid to
>>>> ? ? ? diagnose the problem, as he is prone to do.? He pulled a plug wire
>>>> ? ? and
>>>> ? ? ? determined there was no spark. He checked for moisture in the
>>>> ? ? ? distributor cap (there was none), he checked for loose connections
>>>> ? on
>>>> ? ? ? the firewall (there were none)? he looked at the fuse box for
>>>> ? ? anything
>>>> ? ? ? out of the ordinary (there wasn't).? By this time Jon joined in the
>>>> ? ? ? investigation (after all....I was holding everybody up to go to
>>>> ? ? ? breakfast).
>>>> ? ? ? During Dave and Jon's troubleshooting, I was able to start the car
>>>> ? a
>>>> ? ? ? couple of times but then it wouldn't start afterwards.? Dave had
>>>> ? ? ? mentioned that the terminal block under the steering wheel column
>>>> ? can
>>>> ? ? ? cause problems and after looking at it, it was determined that that
>>>> ? ? was
>>>> ? ? ? the source of my intermittent ignition problem.? My terminal block
>>>> ? ? was
>>>> ? ? ? corroded so bad that the screws holding the wires could not be
>>>> ? ? turned.
>>>> ? ? ? Jon said he usually carries that terminal block with him but he
>>>> ? left
>>>> ? ? in
>>>> ? ? ? such a hurry for the event he didn't pack any.? He then proceeded
>>>> ? to
>>>> ? ? ? make a field repair using a combination of a smaller connector and
>>>> ? ? ? spade connectors to connect the wires without the terminal block so
>>>> ? I
>>>> ? ? ? could drive the four hours home.
>>>> ? ? ? As you are all aware, working under the steering column with the
>>>> ? seat
>>>> ? ? ? in is not very comfortable and there is not much room to work with
>>>> ? ? the
>>>> ? ? ? short length of wire.? Jon spent at least 30 to 40 minutes on his
>>>> ? ? back
>>>> ? ? ? fixing my car, which worked perfectly after he was done and got me
>>>> ? ? home
>>>> ? ? ? without incident.
>>>> ? ? ? The help and assistance offered by Dave and Jon were greatly
>>>> ? ? ? appreciated by me and demonstrate why I love being a part of the
>>>> ? ? ? Pantera family.
>>>> ? ? ? Oh...and by the way.? Jon also diagnosed that my brake switch on
>>>> ? the
>>>> ? ? ? shuttle valve was the reason my brake lights didn't work (as I
>>>> ? found
>>>> ? ? ? out driving to the cars and coffee) by another Pantera owner
>>>> ? driving
>>>> ? ? ? behind me.? Is this switch special to the point I need to get it
>>>> ? from
>>>> ? ? ? an vendor or is it a common NAPA part?
>>>> ? ? ? Tom
>>>> ? ? ? 5186
>>>> ? ? _______________________________________________
>>>> ? ? Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
>>>> ? ? Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>>>> ? ? DeTomaso mailing list
>>>> ? ? [1][5]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>> ? ? [2][6]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>> ? ? To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
>>>> ? ? use the links above.
>>>> ? ? Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
>>>> ? any
>>>> ? ? message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
>>>> ? ? list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
>>>> ? archive
>>>> ? ? or approve the archiving of list messages.
>>>> ? References
>>>> ? ? 1. [7]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>> ? ? 2. [8]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ? _______________________________________________
>>>> ? Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
>>>> ? Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>>>> ? DeTomaso mailing list
>>>> ? [9]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>> ? [10]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>> ? To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
>>>> ? use the links above.
>>>> ? Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
>>>> ? message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
>>>> ? list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
>>>> ? or approve the archiving of list messages.
>>>> ? !DSPAM:5757223b106691209923907!
>>>>
>>>> References
>>>>
>>>> ? 1. http://www.napaonline.com/napa/en/search/?text=Brake+light+switch
>>>> ? 2. mailto:forestg at att.net
>>>> ? 3. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>> ? 4. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>> ? 5. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>> ? 6. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>> ? 7. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>> ? 8. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>> ? 9. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>> ? 10. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
>>>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>>
>>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>>>>
>>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
>>>
>>> !DSPAM:5757305712516274799312!
>>
>> --
>> Real life:? Thomas T?rnblom? ? ? ? ? ? Email:? ? ? thomas at hax.se
>> Snail mail:? Banvallsv?gen 14? ? ? ? ? ? Phone:? ? +46 18 32 31 18
>> ? ? ? ? ? ? S - 754 40 Uppsala, Sweden? Mobile:? +46 76 209 8320
>>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
>
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> Actually it is not a tapered pipe thread. It is a straight thread with
> an inverted flare seat. I have not measured the thread pitch but I
> think it is SAE as opposed to metric.
>
> Forest
> __________________________________________________________________
>
> From: Mike Drew via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> To: Thomas Tornblom <thomas at hax.se>
> Cc: "detomaso at server.detomasolist.com"
> <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>; Forest Goodhart <forestg at att.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 8:52 AM
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Shout out
> Thomas,
> I think it's a tapered pipe thread?
> Mike
> Sent from my iPhone
> On Jun 7, 2016, at 23:43, Thomas Tornblom <[1]thomas at hax.se> wrote:
> > I would be very surprised if it had any thread other than M10x1.
> >
> > Thomas
> >
> > Den 2016-06-07 kl. 22:36, skrev Mike Drew:
> >> Thomas,
> >>
> >> The valve block is almost assuredly a Euro Ford part, maybe common
> with a Transit van or something like that...
> >>
> >> Mike
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >> On Jun 7, 2016, at 13:00, thomas <[2]thomas at hax.se> wrote:
> >>
> >>> The shuttle valve looks very similar to late 1960:s early 1970:s
> Volvo.
> >>> However they did not have a hydraulic switch.
> >>>
> >>> Many European cars of the era had switches that look very similar.
> >>> Earlier single circuit Volvos, VW, Saab could be potential donors.
> >>>
> >>> What
> >>> about:
> [1][3]http://www.napaonline.com/napa/en/search/?text=Brake+light+sw
> >>> itch
> >>>
> >>> Thomas
> >>>
> >>> 7 juni 2016 kl. 21:36 skrev Forest Goodhart
> <[2][4]forestg at att.net>:
> >>>
> >>> Tom,
> >>> I've never found a brake light switch anywhere other than a
> Pantera
> >>> vendor. I have tried NAPA and other parts stores but without
> luck. If
> >>> the source of the shuttle valve could be determined you might
> then be
> >>> able to source one.
> >>> Forest
> >>>
> __________________________________________________________________
> >>> From: Tom Shinrock via DeTomaso
> <[3][5]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> >>> To: [4][6]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, June 7, 2016 10:41 AM
> >>> Subject: [DeTomaso] Shout out
> >>> All,
> >>> I drove my Pantera from Iowa to St. Charles, IL to attend the
> Great
> >>> Lakes Pantera chapter's Spring Fling. I've attended all of
> these
> >>> since
> >>> the first one three years ago. As usual, it was good to see
> old
> >>> friends and meet new ones. I believe Jon Haas has attended
> all of
> >>> these events to showcase his electronic products designed for
> the
> >>> Pantera.
> >>> It is always enjoyable to talk to Jon and see him demonstrate
> his
> >>> stuff.
> >>> This year it was fortuitous for me to have Jon attend because
> for
> >>> the
> >>> first time in 30 years I had car trouble. The car ran great
> on the
> >>> drive to St. Charles and it ran with no problems to the cars
> and
> >>> coffee
> >>> event we attended on Saturday morning. Come Sunday morning
> when we
> >>> are
> >>> getting ready to leave the hotel for breakfast, my car
> wouldn't
> >>> stay
> >>> running. It started immediately and then died. Lots of
> cranking
> >>> followed with no start.
> >>> Dave Doddek (GLP chapter president) immediately came to my
> aid to
> >>> diagnose the problem, as he is prone to do. He pulled a plug
> wire
> >>> and
> >>> determined there was no spark. He checked for moisture in the
> >>> distributor cap (there was none), he checked for loose
> connections
> >>> on
> >>> the firewall (there were none) he looked at the fuse box for
> >>> anything
> >>> out of the ordinary (there wasn't). By this time Jon joined
> in the
> >>> investigation (after all....I was holding everybody up to go
> to
> >>> breakfast).
> >>> During Dave and Jon's troubleshooting, I was able to start the
> car
> >>> a
> >>> couple of times but then it wouldn't start afterwards. Dave
> had
> >>> mentioned that the terminal block under the steering wheel
> column
> >>> can
> >>> cause problems and after looking at it, it was determined that
> that
> >>> was
> >>> the source of my intermittent ignition problem. My terminal
> block
> >>> was
> >>> corroded so bad that the screws holding the wires could not be
> >>> turned.
> >>> Jon said he usually carries that terminal block with him but
> he
> >>> left
> >>> in
> >>> such a hurry for the event he didn't pack any. He then
> proceeded
> >>> to
> >>> make a field repair using a combination of a smaller connector
> and
> >>> spade connectors to connect the wires without the terminal
> block so
> >>> I
> >>> could drive the four hours home.
> >>> As you are all aware, working under the steering column with
> the
> >>> seat
> >>> in is not very comfortable and there is not much room to work
> with
> >>> the
> >>> short length of wire. Jon spent at least 30 to 40 minutes on
> his
> >>> back
> >>> fixing my car, which worked perfectly after he was done and
> got me
> >>> home
> >>> without incident.
> >>> The help and assistance offered by Dave and Jon were greatly
> >>> appreciated by me and demonstrate why I love being a part of
> the
> >>> Pantera family.
> >>> Oh...and by the way. Jon also diagnosed that my brake switch
> on
> >>> the
> >>> shuttle valve was the reason my brake lights didn't work (as I
> >>> found
> >>> out driving to the cars and coffee) by another Pantera owner
> >>> driving
> >>> behind me. Is this switch special to the point I need to get
> it
> >>> from
> >>> an vendor or is it a common NAPA part?
> >>> Tom
> >>> 5186
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
> >>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> >>> DeTomaso mailing list
> >>> [1][5][7]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> >>>
> [2][6][8]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
> etc.)
> >>> use the links above.
> >>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to
> forward
> >>> any
> >>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
> the
> >>> list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
> >>> archive
> >>> or approve the archiving of list messages.
> >>> References
> >>> 1. [7]mailto:[9]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> >>> 2.
> [8][10]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
> >>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> >>> DeTomaso mailing list
> >>> [9][11]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> >>> [10][12]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
> etc.)
> >>> use the links above.
> >>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
> any
> >>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
> >>> list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
> archive
> >>> or approve the archiving of list messages.
> >>> !DSPAM:5757223b106691209923907!
> >>>
> >>> References
> >>>
> >>> 1.
> [13]http://www.napaonline.com/napa/en/search/?text=Brake+light+switch
> >>> 2. mailto:[14]forestg at att.net
> >>> 3. mailto:[15]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> >>> 4. mailto:[16]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> >>> 5. mailto:[17]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> >>> 6. [18]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >>> 7. mailto:[19]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> >>> 8. [20]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >>> 9. mailto:[21]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> >>> 10. [22]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
> >>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> >>> DeTomaso mailing list
> >>> [23]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> >>> [24]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >>>
> >>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
> etc.) use the links above.
> >>>
> >>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
> any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
> list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
> or approve the archiving of list messages.
> >>
> >>
> >> !DSPAM:5757305712516274799312!
> >
> >
> > --
> > Real life: Thomas TAP:rnblom Email:
> [25]thomas at hax.se
> > Snail mail: BanvallsvACURgen 14 Phone: +46 18 32 31 18
> > S - 754 40 Uppsala, Sweden Mobile: +46 76 209 8320
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [26]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> [27]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> use the links above.
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
> list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
> or approve the archiving of list messages.
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:thomas at hax.se
> 2. mailto:thomas at hax.se
> 3. http://www.napaonline.com/napa/en/search/?text=Brake+light+sw
> 4. mailto:forestg at att.net
> 5. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 6. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 7. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 8. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 9. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 10. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 11. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 12. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 13. http://www.napaonline.com/napa/en/search/?text=Brake+light+switch
> 14. mailto:forestg at att.net
> 15. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 16. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 17. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 18. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 19. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 20. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 21. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 22. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 23. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 24. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 25. mailto:thomas at hax.se
> 26. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 27. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 16:51:41 +0000 (UTC)
> From: B Hower <b.hower3400 at yahoo.com>
> To: Larry - Ohio Time <Larry at ohiotimecorp.com>, 'Charles Engles'
> <cengles at cox.net>, "detomaso at server.detomasolist.com"
> <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno Question: How to check U joints
> integrity?
> Message-ID:
> <1118235930.632102.1465404701553.JavaMail.yahoo at mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Once upon a time in the Land of Oz, I had a LTD on jack stands in preparation of transmission removal. The engine ran fine until the transmission was put into drive.? The 390 engine could not pull the car to highway speed. While removing the drive shaft it was discovered a U-joint was tight, tight, tight. After joint replacement car ran fine again. I would not have believed it had I not seen it for myself. ?Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow -- for there may not be ! )
>
> From: Larry - Ohio Time <Larry at ohiotimecorp.com>
> To: 'Charles Engles' <cengles at cox.net>; detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 8:22 AM
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno Question: How to check U joints integrity?
>
> Hi Chuck,
>
> You are correct the U-Joints will usually show wear fore and aft. Generally
> you hold / lock one end of the shaft and then move the other end fore and
> aft to look for play. I see no reason this could not be done by jacking up
> the wheel to do it, but our sense of feel in our hands is important too. If
> it feels good at the wheel also check it at the shaft by hand (and eye).
>
> I must say the best way is to have it off the car. A U-Joint can be tight
> fore and aft but yet feel "clickie" when mover around from being dry or
> rusty.
>
> Larry (never been in the joint) - Cleveland
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf
> Of Charles Engles
> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 10:33 PM
> To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Techno Question: How to check U joints integrity?
>
> Dear Forum,
>
>
>
>
>
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? The issue of loose or not U joints has come up.? The
> C clips and paint are intact without bare metal showing.? I can't remember
> the simple drill that, I think, begins with jacking up the rear of the
> Pantera and then..rotating the wheel back and forth???? ? Clarification is
> welcome.
>
>
>
>
>
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
>
>
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> Once upon a time in the Land of Oz, I had a LTD on jack stands in
> preparation of transmission removal. The engine ran fine until the
> transmission was put into drive. The 390 engine could not pull the car
> to highway speed. While removing the drive shaft it was discovered a
> U-joint was tight, tight, tight. After joint replacement car ran fine
> again. I would not have believed it had I not seen it for myself.
>
> Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow -- for there may not be
> ! )
> __________________________________________________________________
>
> From: Larry - Ohio Time <Larry at ohiotimecorp.com>
> To: 'Charles Engles' <cengles at cox.net>;
> detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 8:22 AM
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno Question: How to check U joints
> integrity?
> Hi Chuck,
> You are correct the U-Joints will usually show wear fore and aft.
> Generally
> you hold / lock one end of the shaft and then move the other end fore
> and
> aft to look for play. I see no reason this could not be done by jacking
> up
> the wheel to do it, but our sense of feel in our hands is important
> too. If
> it feels good at the wheel also check it at the shaft by hand (and
> eye).
> I must say the best way is to have it off the car. A U-Joint can be
> tight
> fore and aft but yet feel "clickie" when mover around from being dry or
> rusty.
> Larry (never been in the joint) - Cleveland
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso [mailto:[1]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On
> Behalf
> Of Charles Engles
> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 10:33 PM
> To: [2]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Techno Question: How to check U joints integrity?
> Dear Forum,
> The issue of loose or not U joints has come up.
> The
> C clips and paint are intact without bare metal showing. I can't
> remember
> the simple drill that, I think, begins with jacking up the rear of the
> Pantera and then..rotating the wheel back and forth??? Clarification
> is
> welcome.
> Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [3]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> [4]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> use the links above.
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
> list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
> or approve the archiving of list messages.
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
> 2. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 3. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 4. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 13:18:31 -0400
> From: Dave <dave at damardirect.com>
> To: The DeTomaso Registry Guy <detomasoregistry at gmail.com>
> Cc: DeTomaso List <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum
> Message-ID:
> <BF2E96FA630B704D89F8B22E4284D550048C532F4F at tbfg-dc-vm028.bgdc3.local>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Thank you Chuck for letting me know what has transpired within the organization. Thank you Kurt for the resurrection.
>
> It is interesting that the new POCA website forum is far behind this forum as far as popularity. It is also worth noting that technology, the "better", new format of the POCA, is suffering a lack of attendance or participation, compared to this site. The phrase "build it & they will come running" certainly does not sound like it is happening. So why is the old guard allowing this to happen? It seems so flagrant. I think I read a sentiment that in essence said, if you don't like the new structure, you are not needed. This is a car group, how do you censor or better, why would you threaten anyone who disagrees with expulsion?
>
> Seems there is the dominate group forcing the subordinate group to leave, the very definition of expulsion.
> I agree Chuck, so very sad. I would think change is needed sooner than later.
> Dave
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: The DeTomaso Registry Guy [mailto:detomasoregistry at gmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 2:27 PM
> To: Dave
> Cc: DeTomaso List
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum
>
>
>
> Can someone enlighten me, please?
> I am/was under the impression this email list or forum was rescued from being dissolved by Kurt. (thank you Kurt) I was also under the impression this site was not part of or controlled by POCA..
> Is this true?
> Thanks
> IndyDave
>
> Dave,
>
> You missed someone's good explanation of the list history. It was started long ago, and when it was time for the guy to move on, he allowed POCA to 'manage' it under certain conditions.
>
> Then recently MS decided it should be killed, favoring the POCA Board-like forum.
>
> Kurt Byrnes (sp ?) took responsibility and restarted it.
> Now, the list is 'freed from POCA'... THANKS Kurt!
>
> To use the POCA forum requires membership ($75 annually), it is censored for anti-POCA content, is no better than the GREAT (and free) PI Forum, actually much LESS than the PI Forum, and thus is not really used.
>
> And when newly-freed spirits discuss things 'here' some POCA people feel compelled to answer.
>
> Perhaps the POCA propaganda machine should re-evaluate their communications method.
>
> Or maybe Dave, you are adding your commentary too subtly for me (big grin).
> (Read between the lines ?!? What lines ?!? GRIN)
>
> Now...
>
> What caught my attention was a statement was made by the POCA-propaganda machine (PPM) regarding evaluation of alternate printers.
> How this was presented did seem reasonable (at first!). Yet Judy DeRyke (and/or others) commented on how the decision was actually made. This was refuted by the PPM. So someone felt it necessary to post just how POCA makes its decisions (well how Michael Shortt makes decisions for ALL POCA members) using an actual e-mail message as the fact/source/evidence. What better way to form an opinion than with facts, right?
>
> The posting of the facts was made by a non-POCA officer.
> He was then threatened with censure and being kicked out of the club for posting the evidence. WOW !
>
> First, I do not believe the person posting the facts can or should be punished. He did not sign a statement or agree to ANY terms that he is in violation of. Challenging a lie is the right thing to do. If Mr. Shortt wants to try to punish anyone, it should be himself for not conveying the truth in the first place.
>
> While I am not passing judgment on any one suggestion for improvement of POCA, I do object to HOW things are done, and HOW people are being treated.
> More specifically how people who are not in full agreement with the current POCA president are being treated. Let everyone focus on that >one< issue. Correct that problem first, otherwise it will taint any and all (otherwise possibly good) suggestions for change within POCA.
>
> With the leak of this document, POCA members and non-members alike have been given insight into just how POCA is currently being run. How the PPM will respond will also be enlightening!
>
> Sad, quite sad.
>
> Here is an idea mentioned to me recently, perhaps if POCA wants to respond to statements, they could do so, but on their own website, and from their elected Public Relations guy (only), isn't that what the PR job entails?
>
> (Sorry to poke at Ed Mendez the current POCA PR guy, as he must have a REALLY tough job, being elected to be the official POCA voice, but having less-than-accurate statements made by the current POCA president as IF he is the sole POCA voice.)
>
> What a mess for the PR guy to be stuck with...
>
>
>
>
> Chuck
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 17:51:12 +0000 (UTC)
> From: Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>
> To: Dave <dave at damardirect.com>, The DeTomaso Registry Guy
> <detomasoregistry at gmail.com>
> Cc: DeTomaso List <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum
> Message-ID:
> <1675166871.628036.1465408272813.JavaMail.yahoo at mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> You mean do something before someone burns though the cash reserve playing with their ideas of what a club should be.? I heard the POCA cash reserve is over $100,000.? I don't know anything about the typical size of cash reserves for car clubs, but that seems like a lot?
> Ken
>
> From: Dave <dave at damardirect.com>
> To: The DeTomaso Registry Guy <detomasoregistry at gmail.com>
> Cc: DeTomaso List <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 10:18 AM
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum
>
> Thank you Chuck for letting me know what has transpired within the organization. Thank you Kurt for the resurrection.
>
> It is interesting that the new POCA website forum is far behind this forum as far as popularity. It is also worth noting that technology, the "better", new format of the POCA, is suffering a lack of attendance or participation, compared to this site. The phrase "build it & they will come running" certainly does not sound like it is happening. So why is the old guard allowing this to happen? It seems so flagrant. I think I read a sentiment that in essence said, if you don't like the new structure, you are not needed. This is a car group, how do you censor or better, why would you threaten anyone who disagrees with expulsion?
>
> Seems there is the dominate group forcing the subordinate group to leave, the very definition of expulsion.
> I agree Chuck, so very sad. I would think change is needed sooner than later.
> Dave
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: The DeTomaso Registry Guy [mailto:detomasoregistry at gmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 2:27 PM
> To: Dave
> Cc: DeTomaso List
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum
>
>
>
> Can someone enlighten me, please?
> I am/was under the impression this email list or forum was rescued from being dissolved by Kurt. (thank you Kurt) I was also under the impression this site was not part of or controlled by POCA..
> Is this true?
> Thanks
> IndyDave
>
> Dave,
>
> You missed someone's good explanation of the list history.? It was started long ago, and when it was time for the guy to move on, he allowed POCA to 'manage' it under certain conditions.
>
> Then recently MS decided it should be killed, favoring the POCA Board-like forum.
>
> Kurt Byrnes (sp ?) took responsibility and restarted it.
> Now, the list is 'freed from POCA'...? THANKS Kurt!
>
> To use the POCA forum requires membership ($75 annually), it is censored for anti-POCA content, is no better than the GREAT (and free) PI Forum, actually much LESS than the PI Forum, and thus is not really used.
>
> And when newly-freed spirits discuss things 'here' some POCA people feel compelled to answer.
>
> Perhaps the POCA propaganda machine should re-evaluate their communications method.
>
> Or maybe Dave, you are adding your commentary too subtly for me (big grin).
> (Read between the lines ?!?? What lines ?!?? GRIN)
>
> Now...
>
> What caught my attention was a statement was made by the POCA-propaganda machine (PPM) regarding evaluation of alternate printers.
> How this was presented did seem reasonable (at first!). Yet Judy DeRyke (and/or others) commented on how the decision was actually made.? This was refuted by the PPM. So someone felt it necessary to post just how POCA makes its decisions (well how Michael Shortt makes decisions for ALL POCA members) using an actual e-mail message as the fact/source/evidence. What better way to form an opinion than with facts, right?
>
> The posting of the facts was made by a non-POCA officer.
> He was then threatened with censure and being kicked out of the club for posting the evidence.? WOW !?
>
> First, I do not believe the person posting the facts can or should be punished.? He did not sign a statement or agree to ANY terms that he is in violation of. Challenging a lie is the right thing to do. If Mr. Shortt wants to try to punish anyone, it should be himself for not conveying the truth in the first place.
>
> While I am not passing judgment on any one suggestion for improvement of POCA, I do object to HOW things are done, and HOW people are being treated.
> More specifically how people who are not in full agreement with the current POCA president are being treated.? Let everyone focus on that >one< issue.? Correct that problem first, otherwise it will taint any and all (otherwise possibly good) suggestions for change within POCA.
>
> With the leak of this document, POCA members and non-members alike have been given insight into just how POCA is currently being run.? How the PPM will respond will also be enlightening!
>
> Sad, quite sad.
>
> Here is an idea mentioned to me recently, perhaps if POCA wants to respond to statements, they could do so, but on their own website, and from their elected Public Relations guy (only), isn't that what the PR job entails?
>
> (Sorry to poke at Ed Mendez the current POCA PR guy, as he must have a REALLY tough job, being elected to be the official POCA voice, but having less-than-accurate statements made by the current POCA president as IF he is the sole POCA voice.)
>
> What a mess for the PR guy to be stuck with...
>
>
>
>
> Chuck
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
>
>
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> You mean do something before someone burns though the cash reserve
> playing with their ideas of what a club should be. I heard the POCA
> cash reserve is over $100,000. I don't know anything about the typical
> size of cash reserves for car clubs, but that seems like a lot?
> Ken
> __________________________________________________________________
>
> From: Dave <dave at damardirect.com>
> To: The DeTomaso Registry Guy <detomasoregistry at gmail.com>
> Cc: DeTomaso List <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 10:18 AM
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum
> Thank you Chuck for letting me know what has transpired within the
> organization. Thank you Kurt for the resurrection.
> It is interesting that the new POCA website forum is far behind this
> forum as far as popularity. It is also worth noting that technology,
> the "better", new format of the POCA, is suffering a lack of attendance
> or participation, compared to this site. The phrase "build it & they
> will come running" certainly does not sound like it is happening. So
> why is the old guard allowing this to happen? It seems so flagrant. I
> think I read a sentiment that in essence said, if you don't like the
> new structure, you are not needed. This is a car group, how do you
> censor or better, why would you threaten anyone who disagrees with
> expulsion?
> Seems there is the dominate group forcing the subordinate group to
> leave, the very definition of expulsion.
> I agree Chuck, so very sad. I would think change is needed sooner than
> later.
> Dave
> -----Original Message-----
> From: The DeTomaso Registry Guy [mailto:[1]detomasoregistry at gmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 2:27 PM
> To: Dave
> Cc: DeTomaso List
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum
> Can someone enlighten me, please?
> I am/was under the impression this email list or forum was rescued from
> being dissolved by Kurt. (thank you Kurt) I was also under the
> impression this site was not part of or controlled by POCA..
> Is this true?
> Thanks
> IndyDave
> Dave,
> You missed someone's good explanation of the list history. It was
> started long ago, and when it was time for the guy to move on, he
> allowed POCA to 'manage' it under certain conditions.
> Then recently MS decided it should be killed, favoring the POCA
> Board-like forum.
> Kurt Byrnes (sp ?) took responsibility and restarted it.
> Now, the list is 'freed from POCA'... THANKS Kurt!
> To use the POCA forum requires membership ($75 annually), it is
> censored for anti-POCA content, is no better than the GREAT (and free)
> PI Forum, actually much LESS than the PI Forum, and thus is not really
> used.
> And when newly-freed spirits discuss things 'here' some POCA people
> feel compelled to answer.
> Perhaps the POCA propaganda machine should re-evaluate their
> communications method.
> Or maybe Dave, you are adding your commentary too subtly for me (big
> grin).
> (Read between the lines ?!? What lines ?!? GRIN)
> Now...
> What caught my attention was a statement was made by the
> POCA-propaganda machine (PPM) regarding evaluation of alternate
> printers.
> How this was presented did seem reasonable (at first!). Yet Judy DeRyke
> (and/or others) commented on how the decision was actually made. This
> was refuted by the PPM. So someone felt it necessary to post just how
> POCA makes its decisions (well how Michael Shortt makes decisions for
> ALL POCA members) using an actual e-mail message as the
> fact/source/evidence. What better way to form an opinion than with
> facts, right?
> The posting of the facts was made by a non-POCA officer.
> He was then threatened with censure and being kicked out of the club
> for posting the evidence. WOW !
> First, I do not believe the person posting the facts can or should be
> punished. He did not sign a statement or agree to ANY terms that he is
> in violation of. Challenging a lie is the right thing to do. If Mr.
> Shortt wants to try to punish anyone, it should be himself for not
> conveying the truth in the first place.
> While I am not passing judgment on any one suggestion for improvement
> of POCA, I do object to HOW things are done, and HOW people are being
> treated.
> More specifically how people who are not in full agreement with the
> current POCA president are being treated. Let everyone focus on that
> >one< issue. Correct that problem first, otherwise it will taint any
> and all (otherwise possibly good) suggestions for change within POCA.
> With the leak of this document, POCA members and non-members alike have
> been given insight into just how POCA is currently being run. How the
> PPM will respond will also be enlightening!
> Sad, quite sad.
> Here is an idea mentioned to me recently, perhaps if POCA wants to
> respond to statements, they could do so, but on their own website, and
> from their elected Public Relations guy (only), isn't that what the PR
> job entails?
> (Sorry to poke at Ed Mendez the current POCA PR guy, as he must have a
> REALLY tough job, being elected to be the official POCA voice, but
> having less-than-accurate statements made by the current POCA president
> as IF he is the sole POCA voice.)
> What a mess for the PR guy to be stuck with...
> Chuck
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [2]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> [3]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> use the links above.
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
> list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
> or approve the archiving of list messages.
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:detomasoregistry at gmail.com
> 2. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 3. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 13:58:53 -0400
> From: Dave <dave at damardirect.com>
> To: Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>, The DeTomaso Registry Guy
> <detomasoregistry at gmail.com>
> Cc: DeTomaso List <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum
> Message-ID:
> <BF2E96FA630B704D89F8B22E4284D550048C532F56 at tbfg-dc-vm028.bgdc3.local>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Excellent point.
> Dave
>
> From: Ken Green [mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 1:51 PM
> To: Dave; The DeTomaso Registry Guy
> Cc: DeTomaso List
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum
>
> You mean do something before someone burns though the cash reserve playing with their ideas of what a club should be. I heard the POCA cash reserve is over $100,000. I don't know anything about the typical size of cash reserves for car clubs, but that seems like a lot?
>
> Ken
>
> ________________________________
> From: Dave <dave at damardirect.com<mailto:dave at damardirect.com>>
> To: The DeTomaso Registry Guy <detomasoregistry at gmail.com<mailto:detomasoregistry at gmail.com>>
> Cc: DeTomaso List <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 10:18 AM
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum
>
> Thank you Chuck for letting me know what has transpired within the organization. Thank you Kurt for the resurrection.
>
> It is interesting that the new POCA website forum is far behind this forum as far as popularity. It is also worth noting that technology, the "better", new format of the POCA, is suffering a lack of attendance or participation, compared to this site. The phrase "build it & they will come running" certainly does not sound like it is happening. So why is the old guard allowing this to happen? It seems so flagrant. I think I read a sentiment that in essence said, if you don't like the new structure, you are not needed. This is a car group, how do you censor or better, why would you threaten anyone who disagrees with expulsion?
>
> Seems there is the dominate group forcing the subordinate group to leave, the very definition of expulsion.
> I agree Chuck, so very sad. I would think change is needed sooner than later.
> Dave
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: The DeTomaso Registry Guy [mailto:detomasoregistry at gmail.com<mailto:detomasoregistry at gmail.com>]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 2:27 PM
> To: Dave
> Cc: DeTomaso List
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum
>
>
>
> Can someone enlighten me, please?
> I am/was under the impression this email list or forum was rescued from being dissolved by Kurt. (thank you Kurt) I was also under the impression this site was not part of or controlled by POCA..
> Is this true?
> Thanks
> IndyDave
>
> Dave,
>
> You missed someone's good explanation of the list history. It was started long ago, and when it was time for the guy to move on, he allowed POCA to 'manage' it under certain conditions.
>
> Then recently MS decided it should be killed, favoring the POCA Board-like forum.
>
> Kurt Byrnes (sp ?) took responsibility and restarted it.
> Now, the list is 'freed from POCA'... THANKS Kurt!
>
> To use the POCA forum requires membership ($75 annually), it is censored for anti-POCA content, is no better than the GREAT (and free) PI Forum, actually much LESS than the PI Forum, and thus is not really used.
>
> And when newly-freed spirits discuss things 'here' some POCA people feel compelled to answer.
>
> Perhaps the POCA propaganda machine should re-evaluate their communications method.
>
> Or maybe Dave, you are adding your commentary too subtly for me (big grin).
> (Read between the lines ?!? What lines ?!? GRIN)
>
> Now...
>
> What caught my attention was a statement was made by the POCA-propaganda machine (PPM) regarding evaluation of alternate printers.
> How this was presented did seem reasonable (at first!). Yet Judy DeRyke (and/or others) commented on how the decision was actually made. This was refuted by the PPM. So someone felt it necessary to post just how POCA makes its decisions (well how Michael Shortt makes decisions for ALL POCA members) using an actual e-mail message as the fact/source/evidence. What better way to form an opinion than with facts, right?
>
> The posting of the facts was made by a non-POCA officer.
> He was then threatened with censure and being kicked out of the club for posting the evidence. WOW !
>
> First, I do not believe the person posting the facts can or should be punished. He did not sign a statement or agree to ANY terms that he is in violation of. Challenging a lie is the right thing to do. If Mr. Shortt wants to try to punish anyone, it should be himself for not conveying the truth in the first place.
>
> While I am not passing judgment on any one suggestion for improvement of POCA, I do object to HOW things are done, and HOW people are being treated.
> More specifically how people who are not in full agreement with the current POCA president are being treated. Let everyone focus on that >one< issue. Correct that problem first, otherwise it will taint any and all (otherwise possibly good) suggestions for change within POCA.
>
> With the leak of this document, POCA members and non-members alike have been given insight into just how POCA is currently being run. How the PPM will respond will also be enlightening!
>
> Sad, quite sad.
>
> Here is an idea mentioned to me recently, perhaps if POCA wants to respond to statements, they could do so, but on their own website, and from their elected Public Relations guy (only), isn't that what the PR job entails?
>
> (Sorry to poke at Ed Mendez the current POCA PR guy, as he must have a REALLY tough job, being elected to be the official POCA voice, but having less-than-accurate statements made by the current POCA president as IF he is the sole POCA voice.)
>
> What a mess for the PR guy to be stuck with...
>
>
>
>
> Chuck
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com<mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> Excellent point.
>
> Dave
>
>
> From: Ken Green [mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 1:51 PM
> To: Dave; The DeTomaso Registry Guy
> Cc: DeTomaso List
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum
>
>
> You mean do something before someone burns though the cash reserve
> playing with their ideas of what a club should be. I heard the POCA
> cash reserve is over $100,000. I don't know anything about the typical
> size of cash reserves for car clubs, but that seems like a lot?
>
>
> Ken
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
>
> From: Dave <[1]dave at damardirect.com>
> To: The DeTomaso Registry Guy <[2]detomasoregistry at gmail.com>
> Cc: DeTomaso List <[3]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 10:18 AM
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum
>
> Thank you Chuck for letting me know what has transpired within the
> organization. Thank you Kurt for the resurrection.
> It is interesting that the new POCA website forum is far behind this
> forum as far as popularity. It is also worth noting that technology,
> the "better", new format of the POCA, is suffering a lack of attendance
> or participation, compared to this site. The phrase "build it & they
> will come running" certainly does not sound like it is happening. So
> why is the old guard allowing this to happen? It seems so flagrant. I
> think I read a sentiment that in essence said, if you don't like the
> new structure, you are not needed. This is a car group, how do you
> censor or better, why would you threaten anyone who disagrees with
> expulsion?
> Seems there is the dominate group forcing the subordinate group to
> leave, the very definition of expulsion.
> I agree Chuck, so very sad. I would think change is needed sooner than
> later.
> Dave
> -----Original Message-----
> From: The DeTomaso Registry Guy [mailto:[4]detomasoregistry at gmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 2:27 PM
> To: Dave
> Cc: DeTomaso List
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum
> Can someone enlighten me, please?
> I am/was under the impression this email list or forum was rescued from
> being dissolved by Kurt. (thank you Kurt) I was also under the
> impression this site was not part of or controlled by POCA..
> Is this true?
> Thanks
> IndyDave
> Dave,
> You missed someone's good explanation of the list history. It was
> started long ago, and when it was time for the guy to move on, he
> allowed POCA to 'manage' it under certain conditions.
> Then recently MS decided it should be killed, favoring the POCA
> Board-like forum.
> Kurt Byrnes (sp ?) took responsibility and restarted it.
> Now, the list is 'freed from POCA'... THANKS Kurt!
> To use the POCA forum requires membership ($75 annually), it is
> censored for anti-POCA content, is no better than the GREAT (and free)
> PI Forum, actually much LESS than the PI Forum, and thus is not really
> used.
> And when newly-freed spirits discuss things 'here' some POCA people
> feel compelled to answer.
> Perhaps the POCA propaganda machine should re-evaluate their
> communications method.
> Or maybe Dave, you are adding your commentary too subtly for me (big
> grin).
> (Read between the lines ?!? What lines ?!? GRIN)
> Now...
> What caught my attention was a statement was made by the
> POCA-propaganda machine (PPM) regarding evaluation of alternate
> printers.
> How this was presented did seem reasonable (at first!). Yet Judy DeRyke
> (and/or others) commented on how the decision was actually made. This
> was refuted by the PPM. So someone felt it necessary to post just how
> POCA makes its decisions (well how Michael Shortt makes decisions for
> ALL POCA members) using an actual e-mail message as the
> fact/source/evidence. What better way to form an opinion than with
> facts, right?
> The posting of the facts was made by a non-POCA officer.
> He was then threatened with censure and being kicked out of the club
> for posting the evidence. WOW !
> First, I do not believe the person posting the facts can or should be
> punished. He did not sign a statement or agree to ANY terms that he is
> in violation of. Challenging a lie is the right thing to do. If Mr.
> Shortt wants to try to punish anyone, it should be himself for not
> conveying the truth in the first place.
> While I am not passing judgment on any one suggestion for improvement
> of POCA, I do object to HOW things are done, and HOW people are being
> treated.
> More specifically how people who are not in full agreement with the
> current POCA president are being treated. Let everyone focus on that
> >one< issue. Correct that problem first, otherwise it will taint any
> and all (otherwise possibly good) suggestions for change within POCA.
> With the leak of this document, POCA members and non-members alike have
> been given insight into just how POCA is currently being run. How the
> PPM will respond will also be enlightening!
> Sad, quite sad.
> Here is an idea mentioned to me recently, perhaps if POCA wants to
> respond to statements, they could do so, but on their own website, and
> from their elected Public Relations guy (only), isn't that what the PR
> job entails?
> (Sorry to poke at Ed Mendez the current POCA PR guy, as he must have a
> REALLY tough job, being elected to be the official POCA voice, but
> having less-than-accurate statements made by the current POCA president
> as IF he is the sole POCA voice.)
> What a mess for the PR guy to be stuck with...
> Chuck
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [5]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> [6]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> use the links above.
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
> list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
> or approve the archiving of list messages.
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:dave at damardirect.com
> 2. mailto:detomasoregistry at gmail.com
> 3. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 4. mailto:detomasoregistry at gmail.com
> 5. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 6. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 14:07:11 -0400
> From: Kurt Byrnes <kdb at kbyrnes.com>
> To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC - Processed some vintage race in-car
> footage
> Message-ID: <49d1def6-ac32-9e57-41d8-1a9bf467312b at kbyrnes.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>
> Thanks everyone. I'm driving my 1951 MG TD. This was the second
> feature race for our group. The first race was won by an Elva Mk II. I
> took second place. They handicapped the Elva back to fourth place so I
> was on the pole for the second race. Everyone, including me, expected
> him to overtake me in the first lap so I had made plans to swap
> positions a few times with a friend as long as we held the Elva off.
> Put on a show and all that. The Elva passed him almost immediately so I
> was just trying to stay in front. Fortunately for me, every time he
> would get close to me, we would be lapping traffic and I was able to
> pass at full throttle and he would have to wait to get through a corner.
>
> Larry, I'll be at the event again this year so come on out.
>
> Another event any east coast folks should really consider is the
> Pittsburgh Vintage Grand Prix at Schenley Park. In addition to being
> the only U.S. vintage race held on city streets, there is a HUGE car
> show all around the race course. This year's marque for the Italian
> section is DeTomaso! See http://www.pvgp.org/
>
> Kurt
>
> On 6/8/2016 12:30 AM, Mike Drew wrote:
>> Kurt,
>>
>> Looks to me like there was a race and somebody forgot to tell everyone else they were in it!!!
>>
>> Well done!
>>
>> What is it you're driving? Looks like a Morgan maybe?
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>> On Jun 7, 2016, at 9:00 PM, Kurt Byrnes <kdb at kbyrnes.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Here's a few bits of a race I did last summer at Put-In-Bay Ohio. Back in the 50's, there were road races on the island. A few years ago, some friends wanted to honor the old races and restart racing on the island. Put-In-Bay Road Race Reunion was born. There are round table discussions with old racers who raced back in the day, a re-enactment of the old course, rocker cover races, etc. The website is http://pibroadrace.com/
>>>
>>>
>>> The races are now run at the airport. For two days, they close it down in the morning, build the course with hay bales, we race, and they tear it all back down so planes can land by evening.
>>>
>>>
>>> They have an exhibition class that may let Pantera's in so if you're looking for something to do in late August, come on out. Races are held during the week since PIB is supposed to be the adult version of spring break every weekend in the summer.
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JerjbkhmBCU
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
>>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>
>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>>>
>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 14:14:46 -0400
> From: Tom Shinrock <tmshinro at aol.com>
> To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Anybody know....
> Message-ID: <15531394994-6d3-b225 at webprd-m28.mail.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I met a guy in a new golf group I started playing with that said when he lived in Denver he knew a guy named Jay Popp who had several Panteras and attended the Fun Rallys in Vegas.
>
>
> I looked for his name in the POCA directory and saw that he wasn't listed.
>
>
> I was just curious if anybody knew Jay and if he is still in the Pantera circle.
>
>
> Tom
> 5186
> -------------- next part --------------
> I met a guy in a new golf group I started playing with that said when
> he lived in Denver he knew a guy named Jay Popp who had several
> Panteras and attended the Fun Rallys in Vegas.
>
> I looked for his name in the POCA directory and saw that he wasn't
> listed.
>
> I was just curious if anybody knew Jay and if he is still in the
> Pantera circle.
>
> Tom
>
> 5186
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 11:38:14 -0700
> From: The DeTomaso Registry Guy <detomasoregistry at gmail.com>
> To: "DeTomaso List" <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Subject: [DeTomaso] FW: Anybody know....
> Message-ID: <6B794A0DCD2B4BE1A95A3BDE5BC31325 at BOSS3A>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I met a guy in a new golf group I started playing with that said when he lived in Denver he knew a guy named Jay Popp who had
> several Panteras and attended the Fun Rallys in Vegas.
>
> I looked for his name in the POCA directory and saw that he wasn't listed.
>
> I was just curious if anybody knew Jay and if he is still in the Pantera circle.
>
> Tom
> 5186
>
> Tom,
>
> Jay Popp has a GT5-S in the registry, but he has not yet shared any photos.
>
> There are 2 more cars that list him as a past owner, with photos and details added
> by others.
>
> So the name is correct.
>
> Chuck
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 19:16:44 +0000 (GMT)
> From: cengles at cox.net
> To: tmshinro at aol.com
> Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Anybody know....
> Message-ID: <11f38d1.14fb.1553172058e.Webtop.0 at cox.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed; delsp=no
>
> Dear Tom,
>
>
> I do remember that name from years ago. That is all my
> fuzzy memory can recall.
>
> Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 1:14 PM, Tom Shinrock via DeTomaso wrote:
>
>> I met a guy in a new golf group I started playing with that said when
>> he lived in Denver he knew a guy named Jay Popp who had several
>> Panteras and attended the Fun Rallys in Vegas.
>>
>>
>> I looked for his name in the POCA directory and saw that he wasn't
>> listed.
>>
>>
>> I was just curious if anybody knew Jay and if he is still in the
>> Pantera circle.
>>
>> Tom
>> 5186
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>
>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
>> use the links above.
>>
>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
>> list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
>> or approve the archiving of list messages.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 19:27:53 +0000 (GMT)
> From: cengles at cox.net
> To: steve at snclocks.com
> Cc: detomaso detomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA
> Message-ID: <1de80c2.1508.155317c3e5f.Webtop.0 at cox.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed; delsp=no
>
> Dear Stephen,
>
>
>
> A philosophical response to the question:
> "....what POCA does for me.."
>
>
> What the new POCA does for you is to give you more
> value for your membership and a better membership experience.
>
>
> What the old POCA did with volunteers and
> enthusiasts in the days before the internet, was to provide a nationwide
> organization that aided and abetted information and experience about the
> difficulties and joys of owning a Pantera. The bright eyed amateurs
> would type out newsletters and mail them. The newsletters and the
> Profiles improved with time, but they both provided a framework for
> Pantera owners across the nation to benefit from their fellow members.
> Outside of southern California, it was the only therapy for being the
> "Lone Ranger" in Enid, Oklahoma, for example. With the incorporation
> of the Vegas Rally, a national meeting provided the faces to connect
> with the names and the opportunity to socialize and build relationships.
> Finally, the old Forum extended that to the internet with the results
> that we all are familiar with.
>
> Currently, the new POCA offers all the high tech
> satisfaction of digital cable attainment of various and sundry benefits.
>
> Historically, the old POCA was the foundation of
> the relationships and friendships and Pantera ownership that we have
> today.
>
>
>
> Philosophically yours, Chuck Engles
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 8:51 AM, Stephen wrote:
>
>> I believe that Thomas gets to the heart of the issue with the current
>> POCA
>> leader. There have been a number of times that MS has responded to
>> posts I
>> put out on there on the previous forum in a way that made me wonder
>> why I
>> bothered to post at all. It took me a while to distinguish between
>> the
>> several Mikes that posted on the previous forum - it was the short one
>> that
>> I figured out first - and I quit reading his responses. Especially
>> when I
>> realized that he really doesn't know it all, and that his technical
>> guidance
>> was flawed as often as it was correct.
>>
>> I know that the short is doing his best to put together his idea of a
>> better
>> POCA site. And I know it will offer a lot. No doubt. NTL, his
>> amazing
>> ability to piss folks off with his truly marginal interpersonal skills
>> is
>> well known, and totally inappropriate for a person in his position.
>> POCA is not this forum - and, well, vice versa. 3 years ago, when my
>> wife
>> and I bought 5332, I likely would have put up with the shorts crap to
>> get
>> what we needed - as I did in the past. Today - well, 5332 is a dream
>> to
>> drive, and I have this forum. Tell me again what POCA does for me -
>> other
>> than to remind me that some folk make terrible leaders?
>>
>> Stephen Nelson
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Thomas T?rnblom
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 1:36 AM
>> To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA
>>
>> 1) You can't do much about family, love it or hate it.
>>
>> 2) If you have an issue with a colleague, step away, if it is with
>> management, get a new job
>>
>> 3) If you have an issue with the current leadership in a club you pay
>> to be
>> part of, then quitting, even temporarily, would at least send a fairly
>> strong message that something is wrong, or else the club may not be
>> for you
>> anymore.
>>
>> As I've said before, I will likely not renew my POCA membership when
>> it is
>> due, and if I were ten years younger I would also get a new job.
>>
>> Life's too short to having to deal with a*holes.
>>
>> Thomas
>>
>> Den 2016-06-08 kl. 08:48, skrev Ed Mendez:
>>> Quitting is only going to hurt the club and the people in it who love
>>> you.
>> We are all family here. Quit because of one person you don't agree
>> with?
>> Quit because of a family member you don't get along with? If we all
>> did that
>> none of us would be working in our day jobs, or have a family at all.
>>> I assume punch my brother in the face, but he is still my brother and
>>> that
>> would really piss off my mom.
>>> Just saying.
>>>
>>> Better that maybe we all just step away from the computer screen for
>>> a
>> while, there's a whole big world out there.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus
>>>
>>>> On 8/06/2016, at 17:14, Stephen <steve at snclocks.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Dear GoNancy Haney - I can readily understand your letting go of
>>>> your POCA membership - right now the leadership is proving to be
>>>> just plain polarizing. Just don't let go of this forum! And, one
>>>> day, when hoof in mouth is not so rampant you can perhaps rejoin.
>>>>
>>>> Stephen Nelson
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On
>>>> Behalf Of gonancy at juno.com
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 8:38 PM
>>>> To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>> Subject: [DeTomaso] POCA
>>>>
>>>> Dear Forum,
>>>> Even though I've just been a lurker and occasional poster and
>>>> spellcheck nazi on the Forum since its inception, I wanted to put it
>>>> out to the Pantera Community that I will be letting Judy McCartney
>>>> know that I am ending my membership in POCA effective immediately.
>>>> That means my associate member, the Profiles Editor, will be leaving
>>>> also. Mike has the June issue at the printer's right now. It will be
>>>> his
>> last issue.
>>>> As an aside, Mike couldn't even put his own profile on the POCA
>>>> website, even though he's on the BOD, because he's an associate
>>>> member,
>> not a "true "
>>>> member according to whomever it was that he contacted about it. How
>>>> do you like that? Makes him sound like a second class citizen.
>>>>
>>>> It's been a great 25 years,
>>>> GoNancy Haney
>>>>
>>>> P.S. I listened in on the last BOD meeting last week and it was all
>>>> I could do to keep my mouth shut. A monumental effort on my part. I
>>>> could not believe my ears sometimes at what MS was saying. He is a
>>>> real
>> piece of work.
>>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>>> Nextiva vFAX
>>>> Why Do You Still Have An Old Fax Machine?
>>>>
>>>> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5757934166446134075b2st03vuc
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not
>>>> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list
>>>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>>
>>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
>>>> etc.) use the links above.
>>>>
>>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
>>>> any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
>>>> the
>> list.
>>>> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or
>>>> approve the archiving of list messages.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not
>>>> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list
>>>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>>
>>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
>>>> etc.) use
>> the links above.
>>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
>>>> any
>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
>> list.
>> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or
>> approve
>> the archiving of list messages.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not
>>>> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list
>>>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>>
>>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
>>>> etc.) use
>> the links above.
>>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
>>>> any
>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
>> list.
>> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or
>> approve
>> the archiving of list messages.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>
>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
>> use the links above.
>>
>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
>> list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
>> or approve the archiving of list messages.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 19:59:51 +0000
> From: Gray Gregory <rgg at gregorycook.com>
> To: Kurt Byrnes <kdb at kbyrnes.com>, "detomaso at server.detomasolist.com"
> <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC - Processed some vintage race in-car
> footage
> Message-ID:
> <SN2PR05MB24775564365DF5624A65CC1CBC5E0 at SN2PR05MB2477.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Kurt,
>
> Is there a local vintage race group in your area that you run with? What other tracks do y'all run?
>
> Gray
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Kurt Byrnes
> Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 1:07 PM
> To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC - Processed some vintage race in-car footage
>
> Thanks everyone. I'm driving my 1951 MG TD. This was the second feature race for our group. The first race was won by an Elva Mk II. I took second place. They handicapped the Elva back to fourth place so I was on the pole for the second race. Everyone, including me, expected him to overtake me in the first lap so I had made plans to swap positions a few times with a friend as long as we held the Elva off.
> Put on a show and all that. The Elva passed him almost immediately so I was just trying to stay in front. Fortunately for me, every time he would get close to me, we would be lapping traffic and I was able to pass at full throttle and he would have to wait to get through a corner.
>
> Larry, I'll be at the event again this year so come on out.
>
> Another event any east coast folks should really consider is the Pittsburgh Vintage Grand Prix at Schenley Park. In addition to being the only U.S. vintage race held on city streets, there is a HUGE car show all around the race course. This year's marque for the Italian section is DeTomaso! See http://www.pvgp.org/
>
> Kurt
>
> On 6/8/2016 12:30 AM, Mike Drew wrote:
>> Kurt,
>>
>> Looks to me like there was a race and somebody forgot to tell everyone else they were in it!!!
>>
>> Well done!
>>
>> What is it you're driving? Looks like a Morgan maybe?
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>> On Jun 7, 2016, at 9:00 PM, Kurt Byrnes <kdb at kbyrnes.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Here's a few bits of a race I did last summer at Put-In-Bay Ohio.
>>> Back in the 50's, there were road races on the island. A few years
>>> ago, some friends wanted to honor the old races and restart racing on
>>> the island. Put-In-Bay Road Race Reunion was born. There are round
>>> table discussions with old racers who raced back in the day, a
>>> re-enactment of the old course, rocker cover races, etc. The website
>>> is http://pibroadrace.com/
>>>
>>>
>>> The races are now run at the airport. For two days, they close it down in the morning, build the course with hay bales, we race, and they tear it all back down so planes can land by evening.
>>>
>>>
>>> They have an exhibition class that may let Pantera's in so if you're looking for something to do in late August, come on out. Races are held during the week since PIB is supposed to be the adult version of spring break every weekend in the summer.
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JerjbkhmBCU
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not
>>> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list
>>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>
>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>>>
>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 13:14:02 -0700
> From: "Stephen" <steve at snclocks.com>
> To: <cengles at cox.net>
> Cc: 'detomaso detomaso' <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA
> Message-ID: <009601d1c1c2$4d1ae740$e750b5c0$@snclocks.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Ahhhh - I understand so much better. Sort of like why we don't have a tv so we can focus on our friends. Good explanation!
>
> Stephen Nelson
>
> SNClocks.com
> Click here to join one of our mailing lists Contact Lists
> Click here for our new Hammered Dulcimers galleries
> Click here for my new blog on finding happiness in retirement
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cengles at cox.net [mailto:cengles at cox.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 12:28 PM
> To: steve at snclocks.com
> Cc: tipo874 at gmail.com; detomaso detomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA
>
> Dear Stephen,
>
>
>
> A philosophical response to the question:
> "....what POCA does for me.."
>
>
> What the new POCA does for you is to give you more value for your membership and a better membership experience.
>
>
> What the old POCA did with volunteers and
> enthusiasts in the days before the internet, was to provide a nationwide
> organization that aided and abetted information and experience about the
> difficulties and joys of owning a Pantera. The bright eyed amateurs
> would type out newsletters and mail them. The newsletters and the
> Profiles improved with time, but they both provided a framework for
> Pantera owners across the nation to benefit from their fellow members.
> Outside of southern California, it was the only therapy for being the
> "Lone Ranger" in Enid, Oklahoma, for example. With the incorporation
> of the Vegas Rally, a national meeting provided the faces to connect
> with the names and the opportunity to socialize and build relationships.
> Finally, the old Forum extended that to the internet with the results
> that we all are familiar with.
>
> Currently, the new POCA offers all the high tech
> satisfaction of digital cable attainment of various and sundry benefits.
>
> Historically, the old POCA was the foundation of
> the relationships and friendships and Pantera ownership that we have
> today.
>
>
>
> Philosophically yours, Chuck Engles
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 8:51 AM, Stephen wrote:
>
>> I believe that Thomas gets to the heart of the issue with the current
>> POCA
>> leader. There have been a number of times that MS has responded to
>> posts I
>> put out on there on the previous forum in a way that made me wonder
>> why I
>> bothered to post at all. It took me a while to distinguish between
>> the
>> several Mikes that posted on the previous forum - it was the short one
>> that
>> I figured out first - and I quit reading his responses. Especially
>> when I
>> realized that he really doesn't know it all, and that his technical
>> guidance
>> was flawed as often as it was correct.
>>
>> I know that the short is doing his best to put together his idea of a
>> better
>> POCA site. And I know it will offer a lot. No doubt. NTL, his
>> amazing
>> ability to piss folks off with his truly marginal interpersonal skills
>> is
>> well known, and totally inappropriate for a person in his position.
>> POCA is not this forum - and, well, vice versa. 3 years ago, when my
>> wife
>> and I bought 5332, I likely would have put up with the shorts crap to
>> get
>> what we needed - as I did in the past. Today - well, 5332 is a dream
>> to
>> drive, and I have this forum. Tell me again what POCA does for me -
>> other
>> than to remind me that some folk make terrible leaders?
>>
>> Stephen Nelson
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Thomas T?rnblom
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 1:36 AM
>> To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA
>>
>> 1) You can't do much about family, love it or hate it.
>>
>> 2) If you have an issue with a colleague, step away, if it is with
>> management, get a new job
>>
>> 3) If you have an issue with the current leadership in a club you pay
>> to be
>> part of, then quitting, even temporarily, would at least send a fairly
>> strong message that something is wrong, or else the club may not be
>> for you
>> anymore.
>>
>> As I've said before, I will likely not renew my POCA membership when
>> it is
>> due, and if I were ten years younger I would also get a new job.
>>
>> Life's too short to having to deal with a*holes.
>>
>> Thomas
>>
>> Den 2016-06-08 kl. 08:48, skrev Ed Mendez:
>>> Quitting is only going to hurt the club and the people in it who love
>>> you.
>> We are all family here. Quit because of one person you don't agree
>> with?
>> Quit because of a family member you don't get along with? If we all
>> did that
>> none of us would be working in our day jobs, or have a family at all.
>>> I assume punch my brother in the face, but he is still my brother and
>>> that
>> would really piss off my mom.
>>> Just saying.
>>>
>>> Better that maybe we all just step away from the computer screen for
>>> a
>> while, there's a whole big world out there.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus
>>>
>>>> On 8/06/2016, at 17:14, Stephen <steve at snclocks.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Dear GoNancy Haney - I can readily understand your letting go of
>>>> your POCA membership - right now the leadership is proving to be
>>>> just plain polarizing. Just don't let go of this forum! And, one
>>>> day, when hoof in mouth is not so rampant you can perhaps rejoin.
>>>>
>>>> Stephen Nelson
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On
>>>> Behalf Of gonancy at juno.com
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 8:38 PM
>>>> To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>> Subject: [DeTomaso] POCA
>>>>
>>>> Dear Forum,
>>>> Even though I've just been a lurker and occasional poster and
>>>> spellcheck nazi on the Forum since its inception, I wanted to put it
>>>> out to the Pantera Community that I will be letting Judy McCartney
>>>> know that I am ending my membership in POCA effective immediately.
>>>> That means my associate member, the Profiles Editor, will be leaving
>>>> also. Mike has the June issue at the printer's right now. It will be
>>>> his
>> last issue.
>>>> As an aside, Mike couldn't even put his own profile on the POCA
>>>> website, even though he's on the BOD, because he's an associate
>>>> member,
>> not a "true "
>>>> member according to whomever it was that he contacted about it. How
>>>> do you like that? Makes him sound like a second class citizen.
>>>>
>>>> It's been a great 25 years,
>>>> GoNancy Haney
>>>>
>>>> P.S. I listened in on the last BOD meeting last week and it was all
>>>> I could do to keep my mouth shut. A monumental effort on my part. I
>>>> could not believe my ears sometimes at what MS was saying. He is a
>>>> real
>> piece of work.
>>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>>> Nextiva vFAX
>>>> Why Do You Still Have An Old Fax Machine?
>>>>
>>>> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5757934166446134075b2st03vuc
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not
>>>> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list
>>>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>>
>>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
>>>> etc.) use the links above.
>>>>
>>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
>>>> any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
>>>> the
>> list.
>>>> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or
>>>> approve the archiving of list messages.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not
>>>> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list
>>>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>>
>>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
>>>> etc.) use
>> the links above.
>>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
>>>> any
>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
>> list.
>> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or
>> approve
>> the archiving of list messages.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not
>>>> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list
>>>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>>
>>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
>>>> etc.) use
>> the links above.
>>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
>>>> any
>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
>> list.
>> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or
>> approve
>> the archiving of list messages.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>
>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
>> use the links above.
>>
>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
>> list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
>> or approve the archiving of list messages.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2016 13:22:17 -0700
> From: audionut at hushmail.com
> To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA
> Message-ID: <20160608202217.85D75A0135 at smtp.hushmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Damn. Hate to see this happen. Why should anything that is going on
> personally amongst POCA members get to the point where folks are
> quitting? I mean, it's just a car club, right? If people start an
> organization out of love for a special car and the whole thing turns
> into some kind of petty battleground, what the hell is the point?
> Isn't it supposed to be fun to enjoy and preserve our cars together?
> Seems very odd to me that the simple human value of having fun, with
> the Pantera interest in particular, is not being held higher than
> nose-to-the-grindstone, hard-core business values that some feel must
> be maintained with fanatical fervor. I do not pretend to know all the
> inside details here-- I can only say that I do not give a flying
> turd if we spend too much $$ on a certain print shop or whether we
> recruit new members. I don't even understand "recruiting" anyway.
> Whenever someone tries to recruit me for anything, I feel like
> whatever it is they want me to join must suck or else they wouldn't
> feel the need to do it. Let new Pantera people come to us.
> ( I will miss the newsletter in the mail for sure. There is no chance
> that I will go digging for it on the internet.)
> So maybe we voted "Vlad The Impaler" to the POCA helm? Oops. Oh
> well, looks like we gotta ride this one out, folks. Not a big deal,
> unless you are among the politburo and are not digging it. If that
> is the case, by all means bow-out. I sure would. But, to me anyway,
> POCA is all of us Pantera lovers and that can only amount to more good
> than bad. Sorry to see someone go who was doing a great job with
> Profiles and who clearly had a passion for doing so. That job is no
> cakewalk.
> Sent using Hushmail
> On June 7, 2016 at 8:39 PM, gonancy at juno.com wrote:Dear Forum,
> Even though I've just been a lurker and occasional poster and
> spellcheck nazi on the Forum since its inception, I wanted to put it
> out to the Pantera Community that I will be letting Judy McCartney
> know that I am ending my membership in POCA effective immediately.
> That means my associate member, the Profiles Editor, will be leaving
> also. Mike has the June issue at the printer's right now. It will be
> his last issue.
> As an aside, Mike couldn't even put his own profile on the POCA
> website, even though he's on the BOD, because he's an associate
> member, not a "true " member according to whomever it was that he
> contacted about it. How do you like that? Makes him sound like a
> second class citizen.
>
> It's been a great 25 years,
> GoNancy Haney
>
> P.S. I listened in on the last BOD meeting last week and it was all I
> could do to keep my mouth shut. A monumental effort on my part. I
> could not believe my ears sometimes at what MS was saying. He is a
> real piece of work.
> ____________________________________________________________
> Nextiva vFAX
> Why Do You Still Have An Old Fax Machine?
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5757934166446134075b2st03vuc
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> use the links above.
>
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
> list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
> or approve the archiving of list messages.
> -------------- next part --------------
> Damn. Hate to see this happen. Why should anything that is going on
> personally amongst POCA members get to the point where folks are
> quitting?
>
>
>
> I mean, it's just a car club, right? If people start an organization
> out of love for a special car and the whole thing turns into some kind
> of petty battleground, what the hell is the point?
>
>
>
> Isn't it supposed to be fun to enjoy and preserve our cars together?
>
>
>
> Seems very odd to me that the simple human value of having fun, with
> the Pantera interest in particular, is not being held higher than
> nose-to-the-grindstone, hard-core business values that some feel must
> be maintained with fanatical fervor.
>
>
>
> I do not pretend to know all the inside details here-- I can only say
> that I do not give a flying turd if we spend too much $$ on a certain
> print shop or whether we recruit new members.
>
>
>
> I don't even understand "recruiting" anyway. Whenever someone tries to
> recruit me for anything, I feel like whatever it is they want me to
> join must suck or else they wouldn't feel the need to do it. Let new
> Pantera people come to us.
>
> ( I will miss the newsletter in the mail for sure. There is no chance
> that I will go digging for it on the internet.)
>
> So maybe we voted "Vlad The Impaler" to the POCA helm? Oops. Oh well,
> looks like we gotta ride this one out, folks. Not a big deal, unless
> you are among the politburo and are not digging it. If that is the
> case, by all means bow-out. I sure would. But, to me anyway, POCA is
> all of us Pantera lovers and that can only amount to more good than
> bad.
>
>
>
>
>
> Sorry to see someone go who was doing a great job with Profiles and who
> clearly had a passion for doing so. That job is no cakewalk.
>
>
>
> Sent using Hushmail
> On June 7, 2016 at 8:39 PM, gonancy at juno.com wrote:
>
> Dear Forum,
> Even though I've just been a lurker and occasional poster and
> spellcheck nazi on the Forum since its inception, I wanted to put it
> out to the Pantera Community that I will be letting Judy McCartney
> know that I am ending my membership in POCA effective immediately.
> That means my associate member, the Profiles Editor, will be leaving
> also. Mike has the June issue at the printer's right now. It will be
> his last issue.
> As an aside, Mike couldn't even put his own profile on the POCA
> website, even though he's on the BOD, because he's an associate
> member, not a "true " member according to whomever it was that he
> contacted about it. How do you like that? Makes him sound like a
> second class citizen.
> It's been a great 25 years,
> GoNancy Haney
> P.S. I listened in on the last BOD meeting last week and it was all
> I could do to keep my mouth shut. A monumental effort on my part. I
> could not believe my ears sometimes at what MS was saying. He is a
> real piece of work.
> ____________________________________________________________
> Nextiva vFAX
> Why Do You Still Have An Old Fax Machine?
> [1]http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5757934166446134075b2st0
> 3vuc
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> [2]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
> etc.) use the links above.
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
> any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
> the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
> archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
>
> References
>
> 1. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5757934166446134075b2st03vuc
> 2. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 20:32:51 +0000 (UTC)
> From: Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>
> To: Stephen <steve at snclocks.com>, "cengles at cox.net" <cengles at cox.net>
> Cc: 'detomaso detomaso' <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA
> Message-ID:
> <909857765.745525.1465417971489.JavaMail.yahoo at mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>
>
> Like buying a high tech refrigerator for an Eskimo?
>
> From: Stephen <steve at snclocks.com>
> To: cengles at cox.net
> Cc: 'detomaso detomaso' <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 1:14 PM
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA
>
> Ahhhh - I understand so much better.? Sort of like why we don't have a tv so we can focus on our friends.? Good explanation!
>
> Stephen Nelson
>
> SNClocks.com
> Click here to join one of our mailing lists Contact Lists
> Click here for our new Hammered Dulcimers galleries
> Click here for my new blog on finding happiness in retirement
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cengles at cox.net [mailto:cengles at cox.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 12:28 PM
> To: steve at snclocks.com
> Cc: tipo874 at gmail.com; detomaso detomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA
>
> Dear Stephen,
>
>
>
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? A philosophical response to the question:
> "....what POCA does for me.."
>
>
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? What the new POCA does for you is to give you more value for your membership and a better membership experience.
>
>
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? What the old POCA did with volunteers and
> enthusiasts in the days before the internet, was to provide a nationwide
> organization that aided and abetted information and experience about the
> difficulties and joys of owning a Pantera.? The bright eyed amateurs
> would type out newsletters and mail them.? The newsletters and the
> Profiles improved with time, but they both provided a framework for
> Pantera owners across the nation to benefit from their fellow members.
> Outside of southern California, it was the only therapy for being the
> "Lone Ranger" in Enid, Oklahoma, for example.? With the incorporation
> of the Vegas Rally, a national meeting provided the faces to connect
> with the names and the opportunity to socialize and build relationships.
> Finally, the old Forum extended that to the internet with the results
> that we all are familiar with.
>
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Currently, the new POCA offers all the high tech
> satisfaction of digital cable attainment of various and sundry benefits.
>
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Historically, the old POCA was the foundation of
> the relationships and friendships and Pantera ownership that we have
> today.
>
>
>
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Philosophically yours,? Chuck Engles
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 8:51 AM, Stephen wrote:
>
>> I believe that Thomas gets to the heart of the issue with the current
>> POCA
>> leader.? There have been a number of times that MS has responded to
>> posts I
>> put out on there on the previous forum in a way that made me wonder
>> why I
>> bothered to post at all.? It took me a while to distinguish between
>> the
>> several Mikes that posted on the previous forum - it was the short one
>> that
>> I figured out first - and I quit reading his responses.? Especially
>> when I
>> realized that he really doesn't know it all, and that his technical
>> guidance
>> was flawed as often as it was correct.
>>
>> I know that the short is doing his best to put together his idea of a
>> better
>> POCA site.? And I know it will offer a lot.? No doubt.? NTL, his
>> amazing
>> ability to piss folks off with his truly marginal interpersonal skills
>> is
>> well known, and totally inappropriate for a person in his position.
>> ? POCA is not this forum - and, well, vice versa.? 3 years ago, when my
>> wife
>> and I bought 5332, I likely would have put up with the shorts crap to
>> get
>> what we needed - as I did in the past.? Today - well, 5332 is a dream
>> to
>> drive, and I have this forum.? Tell me again what POCA does for me -
>> other
>> than to remind me that some folk make terrible leaders?
>>
>> Stephen Nelson
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Thomas T?rnblom
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 1:36 AM
>> To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA
>>
>> 1) You can't do much about family, love it or hate it.
>>
>> 2) If you have an issue with a colleague, step away, if it is with
>> management, get a new job
>>
>> 3) If you have an issue with the current leadership in a club you pay
>> to be
>> part of, then quitting, even temporarily, would at least send a fairly
>> strong message that something is wrong, or else the club may not be
>> for you
>> anymore.
>>
>> As I've said before, I will likely not renew my POCA membership when
>> it is
>> due, and if I were ten years younger I would also get a new job.
>>
>> Life's too short to having to deal with a*holes.
>>
>> Thomas
>>
>> Den 2016-06-08 kl. 08:48, skrev Ed Mendez:
>>> Quitting is only going to hurt the club and the people in it who love
>>> you.
>> We are all family here. Quit because of one person you don't agree
>> with?
>> Quit because of a family member you don't get along with? If we all
>> did that
>> none of us would be working in our day jobs, or have a family at all.
>>> I assume punch my brother in the face, but he is still my brother and
>>> that
>> would really piss off my mom.
>>> Just saying.
>>>
>>> Better that maybe we all just step away from the computer screen for
>>> a
>> while, there's a whole big world out there.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus
>>>
>>>> On 8/06/2016, at 17:14, Stephen <steve at snclocks.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Dear GoNancy Haney - I can readily understand your letting go of
>>>> your POCA membership - right now the leadership is proving to be
>>>> just plain polarizing.? Just don't let go of this forum!? And, one
>>>> day, when hoof in mouth is not so rampant you can perhaps rejoin.
>>>>
>>>> Stephen Nelson
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On
>>>> Behalf Of gonancy at juno.com
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 8:38 PM
>>>> To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>> Subject: [DeTomaso] POCA
>>>>
>>>> Dear Forum,
>>>> ? ? ? Even though I've just been a lurker and occasional poster and
>>>> spellcheck nazi on the Forum since its inception, I wanted to put it
>>>> out to the Pantera Community that I will be letting Judy McCartney
>>>> know that I am ending my membership in POCA effective immediately.
>>>> That means my associate member, the Profiles Editor, will be leaving
>>>> also. Mike has the June issue at the printer's right now. It will be
>>>> his
>> last issue.
>>>> ? ? As an aside, Mike couldn't even put his own profile on the POCA
>>>> website, even though he's on the BOD, because he's an associate
>>>> member,
>> not a "true "
>>>> member according to whomever it was that he contacted about it.? How
>>>> do you like that?? Makes him sound like a second class citizen.
>>>>
>>>> It's been a great 25 years,
>>>> GoNancy Haney
>>>>
>>>> P.S.? I listened in on the last BOD meeting last week and it was all
>>>> I could do to keep my mouth shut. A monumental effort on my part. I
>>>> could not believe my ears sometimes at what MS was saying. He is a
>>>> real
>> piece of work.
>>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>>> Nextiva vFAX
>>>> Why Do You Still Have An Old Fax Machine?
>>>>
>>>> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5757934166446134075b2st03vuc
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not
>>>> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list
>>>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>>
>>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
>>>> etc.) use the links above.
>>>>
>>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
>>>> any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
>>>> the
>> list.
>>>> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or
>>>> approve the archiving of list messages.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not
>>>> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list
>>>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>>
>>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
>>>> etc.) use
>> the links above.
>>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
>>>> any
>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
>> list.
>> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or
>> approve
>> the archiving of list messages.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not
>>>> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list
>>>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>>
>>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
>>>> etc.) use
>> the links above.
>>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
>>>> any
>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
>> list.
>> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or
>> approve
>> the archiving of list messages.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>
>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
>> use the links above.
>>
>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
>> list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
>> or approve the archiving of list messages.
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
>
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> Like buying a high tech refrigerator for an Eskimo?
> __________________________________________________________________
>
> From: Stephen <steve at snclocks.com>
> To: cengles at cox.net
> Cc: 'detomaso detomaso' <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 1:14 PM
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA
> Ahhhh - I understand so much better. Sort of like why we don't have a
> tv so we can focus on our friends. Good explanation!
> Stephen Nelson
> SNClocks.com
> Click here to join one of our mailing lists Contact Lists
> Click here for our new Hammered Dulcimers galleries
> Click here for my new blog on finding happiness in retirement
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [1]cengles at cox.net [mailto:[2]cengles at cox.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 12:28 PM
> To: [3]steve at snclocks.com
> Cc: [4]tipo874 at gmail.com; detomaso detomaso
> <[5]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA
> Dear Stephen,
> A philosophical response to the question:
> "....what POCA does for me.."
> What the new POCA does for you is to give you more
> value for your membership and a better membership experience.
> What the old POCA did with volunteers and
> enthusiasts in the days before the internet, was to provide a
> nationwide
> organization that aided and abetted information and experience about
> the
> difficulties and joys of owning a Pantera. The bright eyed amateurs
> would type out newsletters and mail them. The newsletters and the
> Profiles improved with time, but they both provided a framework for
> Pantera owners across the nation to benefit from their fellow members.
> Outside of southern California, it was the only therapy for being the
> "Lone Ranger" in Enid, Oklahoma, for example. With the incorporation
> of the Vegas Rally, a national meeting provided the faces to connect
> with the names and the opportunity to socialize and build
> relationships.
> Finally, the old Forum extended that to the internet with the results
> that we all are familiar with.
> Currently, the new POCA offers all the high tech
> satisfaction of digital cable attainment of various and sundry
> benefits.
> Historically, the old POCA was the foundation of
> the relationships and friendships and Pantera ownership that we have
> today.
> Philosophically yours, Chuck Engles
> On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 8:51 AM, Stephen wrote:
> > I believe that Thomas gets to the heart of the issue with the current
> > POCA
> > leader. There have been a number of times that MS has responded to
> > posts I
> > put out on there on the previous forum in a way that made me wonder
> > why I
> > bothered to post at all. It took me a while to distinguish between
> > the
> > several Mikes that posted on the previous forum - it was the short
> one
> > that
> > I figured out first - and I quit reading his responses. Especially
> > when I
> > realized that he really doesn't know it all, and that his technical
> > guidance
> > was flawed as often as it was correct.
> >
> > I know that the short is doing his best to put together his idea of a
> > better
> > POCA site. And I know it will offer a lot. No doubt. NTL, his
> > amazing
> > ability to piss folks off with his truly marginal interpersonal
> skills
> > is
> > well known, and totally inappropriate for a person in his position.
> > POCA is not this forum - and, well, vice versa. 3 years ago, when
> my
> > wife
> > and I bought 5332, I likely would have put up with the shorts crap to
> > get
> > what we needed - as I did in the past. Today - well, 5332 is a dream
> > to
> > drive, and I have this forum. Tell me again what POCA does for me -
> > other
> > than to remind me that some folk make terrible leaders?
> >
> > Stephen Nelson
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: DeTomaso [mailto:[6]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com]
> On
> > Behalf
> > Of Thomas TAP:rnblom
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 1:36 AM
> > To: [7]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA
> >
> > 1) You can't do much about family, love it or hate it.
> >
> > 2) If you have an issue with a colleague, step away, if it is with
> > management, get a new job
> >
> > 3) If you have an issue with the current leadership in a club you pay
> > to be
> > part of, then quitting, even temporarily, would at least send a
> fairly
> > strong message that something is wrong, or else the club may not be
> > for you
> > anymore.
> >
> > As I've said before, I will likely not renew my POCA membership when
> > it is
> > due, and if I were ten years younger I would also get a new job.
> >
> > Life's too short to having to deal with a*holes.
> >
> > Thomas
> >
> > Den 2016-06-08 kl. 08:48, skrev Ed Mendez:
> >> Quitting is only going to hurt the club and the people in it who
> love
> >> you.
> > We are all family here. Quit because of one person you don't agree
> > with?
> > Quit because of a family member you don't get along with? If we all
> > did that
> > none of us would be working in our day jobs, or have a family at all.
> >>
> >> I assume punch my brother in the face, but he is still my brother
> and
> >> that
> > would really piss off my mom.
> >>
> >> Just saying.
> >>
> >> Better that maybe we all just step away from the computer screen for
> >> a
> > while, there's a whole big world out there.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus
> >>
> >>> On 8/06/2016, at 17:14, Stephen <[8]steve at snclocks.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Dear GoNancy Haney - I can readily understand your letting go of
> >>> your POCA membership - right now the leadership is proving to be
> >>> just plain polarizing. Just don't let go of this forum! And, one
> >>> day, when hoof in mouth is not so rampant you can perhaps rejoin.
> >>>
> >>> Stephen Nelson
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: DeTomaso [mailto:[9]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com]
> On
> >>> Behalf Of [10]gonancy at juno.com
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 8:38 PM
> >>> To: [11]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> >>> Subject: [DeTomaso] POCA
> >>>
> >>> Dear Forum,
> >>> Even though I've just been a lurker and occasional poster and
> >>> spellcheck nazi on the Forum since its inception, I wanted to put
> it
> >>> out to the Pantera Community that I will be letting Judy McCartney
> >>> know that I am ending my membership in POCA effective immediately.
> >>> That means my associate member, the Profiles Editor, will be
> leaving
> >>> also. Mike has the June issue at the printer's right now. It will
> be
> >>> his
> > last issue.
> >>> As an aside, Mike couldn't even put his own profile on the POCA
> >>> website, even though he's on the BOD, because he's an associate
> >>> member,
> > not a "true "
> >>> member according to whomever it was that he contacted about it.
> How
> >>> do you like that? Makes him sound like a second class citizen.
> >>>
> >>> It's been a great 25 years,
> >>> GoNancy Haney
> >>>
> >>> P.S. I listened in on the last BOD meeting last week and it was
> all
> >>> I could do to keep my mouth shut. A monumental effort on my part. I
> >>> could not believe my ears sometimes at what MS was saying. He is a
> >>> real
> > piece of work.
> >>>
> >>> ____________________________________________________________
> >>> Nextiva vFAX
> >>> Why Do You Still Have An Old Fax Machine?
> >>>
> >>>
> [12]http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5757934166446134075b2st03v
> uc
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not
> >>> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list
> >>> [13]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> >>> [14]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >>>
> >>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
> >>> etc.) use the links above.
> >>>
> >>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
> >>> any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
> >>> the
> > list.
> >>> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or
> >>> approve the archiving of list messages.
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not
> >>> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list
> >>> [15]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> >>> [16]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >>>
> >>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
> >>> etc.) use
> > the links above.
> >>>
> >>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
> >>> any
> > message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
> > list.
> > They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or
> > approve
> > the archiving of list messages.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not
> >>> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list
> >>> [17]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> >>> [18]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >>>
> >>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
> >>> etc.) use
> > the links above.
> >>>
> >>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
> >>> any
> > message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
> > list.
> > They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or
> > approve
> > the archiving of list messages.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
> > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
> > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > [19]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > [20]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >
> > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> > use the links above.
> >
> > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
> any
> > message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
> > list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
> archive
> > or approve the archiving of list messages.
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [21]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> [22]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> use the links above.
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
> list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
> or approve the archiving of list messages.
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:cengles at cox.net
> 2. mailto:cengles at cox.net
> 3. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
> 4. mailto:tipo874 at gmail.com
> 5. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 6. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
> 7. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 8. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
> 9. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
> 10. mailto:gonancy at juno.com
> 11. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 12. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5757934166446134075b2st03vuc
> 13. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 14. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 15. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 16. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 17. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 18. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 19. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 20. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 21. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 22. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 13:34:01 -0700
> From: "Effie Richards" <erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com>
> To: <cengles at cox.net>, <steve at snclocks.com>
> Cc: 'detomaso detomaso' <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA
> Message-ID: <00a601d1c1c5$17a39690$46eac3b0$@zogob.sdcoxmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> I like your philosophical response, Chuck!
>
> Our first known philosophers, Aristoteles, Socrates and Sophocleous, were my ancestors!
> The Greek word means "friend (or lover) of wise thoughts" and being Greek, please, please, ignore as much as you don't like and focus on the positive of this website.
>
> Where else can you find great guys who know the DeTomaso brand so well and love the car so much, they have become experts in its challenging mechanism! Focus on your "friends of wise thoughts" - the Pantera philosophers, their wealth of knowledge and their spirit of sharing such and forget the other stuff.
>
> I have been a "victim" of bullying, discrimination and other negative actions (as many of us have at times), but I stood strong, proud and determined to learn a new language and culture at 23 and succeed in a business world that was destined for men only at the time. If I had allowed "words" to stop me, I would be nothing now.
>
> Be a part of the great group of Pantera owners who are your friends and many times mentors. You have more to gain by staying. Be patient, shift though "kaka" and focus on the CAR!
> I am amazed how quickly solutions/answers arrive from so many when you have a dilemma or a question about your car, whatever it may be. It is so impressive, isn't it?
>
> I'm not trying to convince anyone to do something they don't want to do. I am just pointing out that we can all shift through dislikes and focus on to the actual great benefits of this group.
>
> Respectfully,
> Effie Richards
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of cengles at cox.net
> Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 12:28 PM
> To: steve at snclocks.com
> Cc: detomaso detomaso
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA
>
> Dear Stephen,
>
>
>
> A philosophical response to the question:
> "....what POCA does for me.."
>
>
> What the new POCA does for you is to give you more value for your membership and a better membership experience.
>
>
> What the old POCA did with volunteers and
> enthusiasts in the days before the internet, was to provide a nationwide
> organization that aided and abetted information and experience about the
> difficulties and joys of owning a Pantera. The bright eyed amateurs
> would type out newsletters and mail them. The newsletters and the
> Profiles improved with time, but they both provided a framework for
> Pantera owners across the nation to benefit from their fellow members.
> Outside of southern California, it was the only therapy for being the
> "Lone Ranger" in Enid, Oklahoma, for example. With the incorporation
> of the Vegas Rally, a national meeting provided the faces to connect
> with the names and the opportunity to socialize and build relationships.
> Finally, the old Forum extended that to the internet with the results
> that we all are familiar with.
>
> Currently, the new POCA offers all the high tech
> satisfaction of digital cable attainment of various and sundry benefits.
>
> Historically, the old POCA was the foundation of
> the relationships and friendships and Pantera ownership that we have
> today.
>
>
>
> Philosophically yours, Chuck Engles
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 8:51 AM, Stephen wrote:
>
>> I believe that Thomas gets to the heart of the issue with the current
>> POCA
>> leader. There have been a number of times that MS has responded to
>> posts I
>> put out on there on the previous forum in a way that made me wonder
>> why I
>> bothered to post at all. It took me a while to distinguish between
>> the
>> several Mikes that posted on the previous forum - it was the short one
>> that
>> I figured out first - and I quit reading his responses. Especially
>> when I
>> realized that he really doesn't know it all, and that his technical
>> guidance
>> was flawed as often as it was correct.
>>
>> I know that the short is doing his best to put together his idea of a
>> better
>> POCA site. And I know it will offer a lot. No doubt. NTL, his
>> amazing
>> ability to piss folks off with his truly marginal interpersonal skills
>> is
>> well known, and totally inappropriate for a person in his position.
>> POCA is not this forum - and, well, vice versa. 3 years ago, when my
>> wife
>> and I bought 5332, I likely would have put up with the shorts crap to
>> get
>> what we needed - as I did in the past. Today - well, 5332 is a dream
>> to
>> drive, and I have this forum. Tell me again what POCA does for me -
>> other
>> than to remind me that some folk make terrible leaders?
>>
>> Stephen Nelson
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Thomas T?rnblom
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 1:36 AM
>> To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA
>>
>> 1) You can't do much about family, love it or hate it.
>>
>> 2) If you have an issue with a colleague, step away, if it is with
>> management, get a new job
>>
>> 3) If you have an issue with the current leadership in a club you pay
>> to be
>> part of, then quitting, even temporarily, would at least send a fairly
>> strong message that something is wrong, or else the club may not be
>> for you
>> anymore.
>>
>> As I've said before, I will likely not renew my POCA membership when
>> it is
>> due, and if I were ten years younger I would also get a new job.
>>
>> Life's too short to having to deal with a*holes.
>>
>> Thomas
>>
>> Den 2016-06-08 kl. 08:48, skrev Ed Mendez:
>>> Quitting is only going to hurt the club and the people in it who love
>>> you.
>> We are all family here. Quit because of one person you don't agree
>> with?
>> Quit because of a family member you don't get along with? If we all
>> did that
>> none of us would be working in our day jobs, or have a family at all.
>>> I assume punch my brother in the face, but he is still my brother and
>>> that
>> would really piss off my mom.
>>> Just saying.
>>>
>>> Better that maybe we all just step away from the computer screen for
>>> a
>> while, there's a whole big world out there.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus
>>>
>>>> On 8/06/2016, at 17:14, Stephen <steve at snclocks.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Dear GoNancy Haney - I can readily understand your letting go of
>>>> your POCA membership - right now the leadership is proving to be
>>>> just plain polarizing. Just don't let go of this forum! And, one
>>>> day, when hoof in mouth is not so rampant you can perhaps rejoin.
>>>>
>>>> Stephen Nelson
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On
>>>> Behalf Of gonancy at juno.com
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 8:38 PM
>>>> To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>> Subject: [DeTomaso] POCA
>>>>
>>>> Dear Forum,
>>>> Even though I've just been a lurker and occasional poster and
>>>> spellcheck nazi on the Forum since its inception, I wanted to put it
>>>> out to the Pantera Community that I will be letting Judy McCartney
>>>> know that I am ending my membership in POCA effective immediately.
>>>> That means my associate member, the Profiles Editor, will be leaving
>>>> also. Mike has the June issue at the printer's right now. It will be
>>>> his
>> last issue.
>>>> As an aside, Mike couldn't even put his own profile on the POCA
>>>> website, even though he's on the BOD, because he's an associate
>>>> member,
>> not a "true "
>>>> member according to whomever it was that he contacted about it. How
>>>> do you like that? Makes him sound like a second class citizen.
>>>>
>>>> It's been a great 25 years,
>>>> GoNancy Haney
>>>>
>>>> P.S. I listened in on the last BOD meeting last week and it was all
>>>> I could do to keep my mouth shut. A monumental effort on my part. I
>>>> could not believe my ears sometimes at what MS was saying. He is a
>>>> real
>> piece of work.
>>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>>> Nextiva vFAX
>>>> Why Do You Still Have An Old Fax Machine?
>>>>
>>>> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5757934166446134075b2st03vuc
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not
>>>> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list
>>>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>>
>>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
>>>> etc.) use the links above.
>>>>
>>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
>>>> any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
>>>> the
>> list.
>>>> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or
>>>> approve the archiving of list messages.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not
>>>> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list
>>>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>>
>>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
>>>> etc.) use
>> the links above.
>>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
>>>> any
>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
>> list.
>> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or
>> approve
>> the archiving of list messages.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not
>>>> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list
>>>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>>
>>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
>>>> etc.) use
>> the links above.
>>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
>>>> any
>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
>> list.
>> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or
>> approve
>> the archiving of list messages.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>
>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
>> use the links above.
>>
>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
>> list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
>> or approve the archiving of list messages.
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 14:31:37 -0700
> From: scottcouchman at yahoo.com
> To: Effie Richards <erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com>
> Cc: detomaso detomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA
> Message-ID: <C12A4302-BDAD-4906-908A-45E0B3BED220 at yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Effie, I don't know what you do or did for a living, but I'm curious if after say 20 years of doing your job, having the respect of all your peers, they suddenly brought someone new in to manage you that treated you like KaKa ( I think that was your word), didn't listen to your recommendations, tried to take away your tools, didn't include you in the meetings to decide how you would do your job, said hateful things to you......and OBTW DIDN'T PAY YOU ANYTHING! How long would you stay in that job? These folks stayed 6 MONTHS!! I think they should get a statue erected in their honor.
>
> I don't know you.....hopefully we will get a chance to meet and hear each other's Pantera story, and I agree we need to try to find a way out of the darkness we're in right now, but I don't think it's fair to challenge these two POCA stalwarts to "shift through dislikes and focus on the actual great benefits of this group". Your Pantera Brother :-)
>
>
>
>> On Jun 8, 2016, at 1:34 PM, Effie Richards <erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I like your philosophical response, Chuck!
>>
>> Our first known philosophers, Aristoteles, Socrates and Sophocleous, were my ancestors!
>> The Greek word means "friend (or lover) of wise thoughts" and being Greek, please, please, ignore as much as you don't like and focus on the positive of this website.
>>
>> Where else can you find great guys who know the DeTomaso brand so well and love the car so much, they have become experts in its challenging mechanism! Focus on your "friends of wise thoughts" - the Pantera philosophers, their wealth of knowledge and their spirit of sharing such and forget the other stuff.
>>
>> I have been a "victim" of bullying, discrimination and other negative actions (as many of us have at times), but I stood strong, proud and determined to learn a new language and culture at 23 and succeed in a business world that was destined for men only at the time. If I had allowed "words" to stop me, I would be nothing now.
>>
>> Be a part of the great group of Pantera owners who are your friends and many times mentors. You have more to gain by staying. Be patient, shift though "kaka" and focus on the CAR!
>> I am amazed how quickly solutions/answers arrive from so many when you have a dilemma or a question about your car, whatever it may be. It is so impressive, isn't it?
>>
>> I'm not trying to convince anyone to do something they don't want to do. I am just pointing out that we can all shift through dislikes and focus on to the actual great benefits of this group.
>>
>> Respectfully,
>> Effie Richards
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of cengles at cox.net
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 12:28 PM
>> To: steve at snclocks.com
>> Cc: detomaso detomaso
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA
>>
>> Dear Stephen,
>>
>>
>>
>> A philosophical response to the question:
>> "....what POCA does for me.."
>>
>>
>> What the new POCA does for you is to give you more value for your membership and a better membership experience.
>>
>>
>> What the old POCA did with volunteers and
>> enthusiasts in the days before the internet, was to provide a nationwide
>> organization that aided and abetted information and experience about the
>> difficulties and joys of owning a Pantera. The bright eyed amateurs
>> would type out newsletters and mail them. The newsletters and the
>> Profiles improved with time, but they both provided a framework for
>> Pantera owners across the nation to benefit from their fellow members.
>> Outside of southern California, it was the only therapy for being the
>> "Lone Ranger" in Enid, Oklahoma, for example. With the incorporation
>> of the Vegas Rally, a national meeting provided the faces to connect
>> with the names and the opportunity to socialize and build relationships.
>> Finally, the old Forum extended that to the internet with the results
>> that we all are familiar with.
>>
>> Currently, the new POCA offers all the high tech
>> satisfaction of digital cable attainment of various and sundry benefits.
>>
>> Historically, the old POCA was the foundation of
>> the relationships and friendships and Pantera ownership that we have
>> today.
>>
>>
>>
>> Philosophically yours, Chuck Engles
>>
>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 8:51 AM, Stephen wrote:
>>>
>>> I believe that Thomas gets to the heart of the issue with the current
>>> POCA
>>> leader. There have been a number of times that MS has responded to
>>> posts I
>>> put out on there on the previous forum in a way that made me wonder
>>> why I
>>> bothered to post at all. It took me a while to distinguish between
>>> the
>>> several Mikes that posted on the previous forum - it was the short one
>>> that
>>> I figured out first - and I quit reading his responses. Especially
>>> when I
>>> realized that he really doesn't know it all, and that his technical
>>> guidance
>>> was flawed as often as it was correct.
>>>
>>> I know that the short is doing his best to put together his idea of a
>>> better
>>> POCA site. And I know it will offer a lot. No doubt. NTL, his
>>> amazing
>>> ability to piss folks off with his truly marginal interpersonal skills
>>> is
>>> well known, and totally inappropriate for a person in his position.
>>> POCA is not this forum - and, well, vice versa. 3 years ago, when my
>>> wife
>>> and I bought 5332, I likely would have put up with the shorts crap to
>>> get
>>> what we needed - as I did in the past. Today - well, 5332 is a dream
>>> to
>>> drive, and I have this forum. Tell me again what POCA does for me -
>>> other
>>> than to remind me that some folk make terrible leaders?
>>>
>>> Stephen Nelson
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Thomas T?rnblom
>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 1:36 AM
>>> To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA
>>>
>>> 1) You can't do much about family, love it or hate it.
>>>
>>> 2) If you have an issue with a colleague, step away, if it is with
>>> management, get a new job
>>>
>>> 3) If you have an issue with the current leadership in a club you pay
>>> to be
>>> part of, then quitting, even temporarily, would at least send a fairly
>>> strong message that something is wrong, or else the club may not be
>>> for you
>>> anymore.
>>>
>>> As I've said before, I will likely not renew my POCA membership when
>>> it is
>>> due, and if I were ten years younger I would also get a new job.
>>>
>>> Life's too short to having to deal with a*holes.
>>>
>>> Thomas
>>>
>>>> Den 2016-06-08 kl. 08:48, skrev Ed Mendez:
>>>> Quitting is only going to hurt the club and the people in it who love
>>>> you.
>>> We are all family here. Quit because of one person you don't agree
>>> with?
>>> Quit because of a family member you don't get along with? If we all
>>> did that
>>> none of us would be working in our day jobs, or have a family at all.
>>>> I assume punch my brother in the face, but he is still my brother and
>>>> that
>>> would really piss off my mom.
>>>> Just saying.
>>>>
>>>> Better that maybe we all just step away from the computer screen for
>>>> a
>>> while, there's a whole big world out there.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus
>>>>
>>>>> On 8/06/2016, at 17:14, Stephen <steve at snclocks.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Dear GoNancy Haney - I can readily understand your letting go of
>>>>> your POCA membership - right now the leadership is proving to be
>>>>> just plain polarizing. Just don't let go of this forum! And, one
>>>>> day, when hoof in mouth is not so rampant you can perhaps rejoin.
>>>>>
>>>>> Stephen Nelson
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On
>>>>> Behalf Of gonancy at juno.com
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 8:38 PM
>>>>> To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>>> Subject: [DeTomaso] POCA
>>>>>
>>>>> Dear Forum,
>>>>> Even though I've just been a lurker and occasional poster and
>>>>> spellcheck nazi on the Forum since its inception, I wanted to put it
>>>>> out to the Pantera Community that I will be letting Judy McCartney
>>>>> know that I am ending my membership in POCA effective immediately.
>>>>> That means my associate member, the Profiles Editor, will be leaving
>>>>> also. Mike has the June issue at the printer's right now. It will be
>>>>> his
>>> last issue.
>>>>> As an aside, Mike couldn't even put his own profile on the POCA
>>>>> website, even though he's on the BOD, because he's an associate
>>>>> member,
>>> not a "true "
>>>>> member according to whomever it was that he contacted about it. How
>>>>> do you like that? Makes him sound like a second class citizen.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's been a great 25 years,
>>>>> GoNancy Haney
>>>>>
>>>>> P.S. I listened in on the last BOD meeting last week and it was all
>>>>> I could do to keep my mouth shut. A monumental effort on my part. I
>>>>> could not believe my ears sometimes at what MS was saying. He is a
>>>>> real
>>> piece of work.
>>>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>>>> Nextiva vFAX
>>>>> Why Do You Still Have An Old Fax Machine?
>>>>>
>>>>> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5757934166446134075b2st03vuc
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not
>>>>> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list
>>>>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>>>
>>>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
>>>>> etc.) use the links above.
>>>>>
>>>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
>>>>> any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
>>>>> the
>>> list.
>>>>> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or
>>>>> approve the archiving of list messages.
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not
>>>>> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list
>>>>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>>>
>>>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
>>>>> etc.) use
>>> the links above.
>>>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
>>>>> any
>>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
>>> list.
>>> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or
>>> approve
>>> the archiving of list messages.
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not
>>>>> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list
>>>>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>>>
>>>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
>>>>> etc.) use
>>> the links above.
>>>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
>>>>> any
>>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
>>> list.
>>> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or
>>> approve
>>> the archiving of list messages.
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
>>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>
>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
>>> use the links above.
>>>
>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
>>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
>>> list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
>>> or approve the archiving of list messages.
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>
>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>>
>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>
>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>>
>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 17
> Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 17:42:39 -0400
> From: fastgrandma <fastgrandma at aol.com>
> To: scottcouchman at yahoo.com, erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com
> Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA
> Message-ID: <15531f7a018-3f81-747c at webstg-m09.mail.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> WELL SAID, SCOTT!! THANK YOU! You got right down to the bare bones of the issue.
>
>
> Judy
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott Couchman via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> To: Effie Richards <erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com>
> Cc: detomaso detomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Sent: Wed, Jun 8, 2016 2:31 pm
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA
>
> Effie, I don't know what you do or did for a living, but I'm curious if after say 20 years of doing your job, having the respect of all your peers, they suddenly brought someone new in to manage you that treated you like KaKa ( I think that was your word), didn't listen to your recommendations, tried to take away your tools, didn't include you in the meetings to decide how you would do your job, said hateful things to you......and OBTW DIDN'T PAY YOU ANYTHING! How long would you stay in that job? These folks stayed 6 MONTHS!! I think they should get a statue erected in their honor.I don't know you.....hopefully we will get a chance to meet and hear each other's Pantera story, and I agree we need to try to find a way out of the darkness we're in right now, but I don't think it's fair to challenge these two POCA stalwarts to "shift through dislikes and focus on the actual great benefits of this group". Your Pantera Brother :-)> On Jun 8, 2016, at 1:34 PM, Effie Richards <erichards at zogo
> b.sdcoxmail.com> wrote:> > I like your philosophical response, Chuck!> > Our first known philosophers, Aristoteles, Socrates and Sophocleous, were my ancestors!> The Greek word means "friend (or lover) of wise thoughts" and being Greek, please, please, ignore as much as you don't like and focus on the positive of this website.> > Where else can you find great guys who know the DeTomaso brand so well and love the car so much, they have become experts in its challenging mechanism! Focus on your "friends of wise thoughts" - the Pantera philosophers, their wealth of knowledge and their spirit of sharing such and forget the other stuff.> > I have been a "victim" of bullying, discrimination and other negative actions (as many of us have at times), but I stood strong, proud and determined to learn a new language and culture at 23 and succeed in a business world that was destined for men only at the time. If I had allowed "words" to stop me, I would be nothing now.> > Be a part of the gre
> at group of Pantera owners who are your friends and many times mentors. You have more to gain by staying. Be patient, shift though "kaka" and focus on the CAR!> I am amazed how quickly solutions/answers arrive from so many when you have a dilemma or a question about your car, whatever it may be. It is so impressive, isn't it?> > I'm not trying to convince anyone to do something they don't want to do. I am just pointing out that we can all shift through dislikes and focus on to the actual great benefits of this group.> > Respectfully,> Effie Richards> > > > -----Original Message-----> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of cengles at cox.net> Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 12:28 PM> To: steve at snclocks.com> Cc: detomaso detomaso> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA> > Dear Stephen,> > > > A philosophical response to the question: > "....what POCA does for me.."> > > What the new POCA does for you is to give you
> more value for your membership and a better membership experience.> > > What the old POCA did with volunteers and > enthusiasts in the days before the internet, was to provide a nationwide > organization that aided and abetted information and experience about the > difficulties and joys of owning a Pantera. The bright eyed amateurs > would type out newsletters and mail them. The newsletters and the > Profiles improved with time, but they both provided a framework for > Pantera owners across the nation to benefit from their fellow members. > Outside of southern California, it was the only therapy for being the > "Lone Ranger" in Enid, Oklahoma, for example. With the incorporation > of the Vegas Rally, a national meeting provided the faces to connect > with the names and the opportunity to socialize and build relationships. > Finally, the old Forum extended that to the internet with the results > that we all are familiar with.> > Currently, t
> he new POCA offers all the high tech > satisfaction of digital cable attainment of various and sundry benefits.> > Historically, the old POCA was the foundation of > the relationships and friendships and Pantera ownership that we have > today.> > > > Philosophically yours, Chuck Engles> > >> On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 8:51 AM, Stephen wrote:>> >> I believe that Thomas gets to the heart of the issue with the current >> POCA>> leader. There have been a number of times that MS has responded to >> posts I>> put out on there on the previous forum in a way that made me wonder >> why I>> bothered to post at all. It took me a while to distinguish between >> the>> several Mikes that posted on the previous forum - it was the short one >> that>> I figured out first - and I quit reading his responses. Especially >> when I>> realized that he really doesn't know it all, and that his technical >> guidance>> was flawed as often as it was correct.>> >> I know that the short is doing his
> best to put together his idea of a >> better>> POCA site. And I know it will offer a lot. No doubt. NTL, his >> amazing>> ability to piss folks off with his truly marginal interpersonal skills >> is>> well known, and totally inappropriate for a person in his position.>> POCA is not this forum - and, well, vice versa. 3 years ago, when my >> wife>> and I bought 5332, I likely would have put up with the shorts crap to >> get>> what we needed - as I did in the past. Today - well, 5332 is a dream >> to>> drive, and I have this forum. Tell me again what POCA does for me - >> other>> than to remind me that some folk make terrible leaders?>> >> Stephen Nelson>> >> -----Original Message----->> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On >> Behalf>> Of Thomas T?rnblom>> Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 1:36 AM>> To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA>> >> 1) You can't do much about family, love it or hate it.>> >> 2) If you have an is
> sue with a colleague, step away, if it is with>> management, get a new job>> >> 3) If you have an issue with the current leadership in a club you pay >> to be>> part of, then quitting, even temporarily, would at least send a fairly>> strong message that something is wrong, or else the club may not be >> for you>> anymore.>> >> As I've said before, I will likely not renew my POCA membership when >> it is>> due, and if I were ten years younger I would also get a new job.>> >> Life's too short to having to deal with a*holes.>> >> Thomas>> >>> Den 2016-06-08 kl. 08:48, skrev Ed Mendez:>>> Quitting is only going to hurt the club and the people in it who love >>> you.>> We are all family here. Quit because of one person you don't agree >> with?>> Quit because of a family member you don't get along with? If we all >> did that>> none of us would be working in our day jobs, or have a family at all.>>> >>> I assume punch my brother in the face, but he is still my brother and >>> that>> would
> really piss off my mom.>>> >>> Just saying.>>> >>> Better that maybe we all just step away from the computer screen for >>> a>> while, there's a whole big world out there.>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus>>> >>>> On 8/06/2016, at 17:14, Stephen <steve at snclocks.com> wrote:>>>> >>>> Dear GoNancy Haney - I can readily understand your letting go of >>>> your POCA membership - right now the leadership is proving to be >>>> just plain polarizing. Just don't let go of this forum! And, one >>>> day, when hoof in mouth is not so rampant you can perhaps rejoin.>>>> >>>> Stephen Nelson>>>> >>>> -----Original Message----->>>> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On >>>> Behalf Of gonancy at juno.com>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 8:38 PM>>>> To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>>>> Subject: [DeTomaso] POCA>>>> >>>> Dear Forum,>>>> Even though I've just been a lurker and occasional poster and >>>> spellcheck nazi on the Forum since its inception,
> I wanted to put it >>>> out to the Pantera Community that I will be letting Judy McCartney >>>> know that I am ending my membership in POCA effective immediately. >>>> That means my associate member, the Profiles Editor, will be leaving >>>> also. Mike has the June issue at the printer's right now. It will be >>>> his>> last issue.>>>> As an aside, Mike couldn't even put his own profile on the POCA >>>> website, even though he's on the BOD, because he's an associate >>>> member,>> not a "true ">>>> member according to whomever it was that he contacted about it. How >>>> do you like that? Makes him sound like a second class citizen.>>>> >>>> It's been a great 25 years,>>>> GoNancy Haney>>>> >>>> P.S. I listened in on the last BOD meeting last week and it was all >>>> I could do to keep my mouth shut. A monumental effort on my part. I >>>> could not believe my ears sometimes at what MS was saying. He is a >>>> real>> piece of work.>>>> >>>> _____________________________________
> _______________________>>>> Nextiva vFAX>>>> Why Do You Still Have An Old Fax Machine?>>>> >>>> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5757934166446134075b2st03vuc>>>> _______________________________________________>>>> >>>> >>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not >>>> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list >>>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com >>>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso>>>> >>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, >>>> etc.) use the links above.>>>> >>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward >>>> any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of >>>> the>> list.>>>> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or >>>> approve the archiving of list messages.>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________>>>> >>>> >>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not >>>> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTom
> aso mailing list >>>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com >>>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso>>>> >>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, >>>> etc.) use>> the links above.>>>> >>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward >>>> any>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the >> list.>> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or >> approve>> the archiving of list messages.>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________>>>> >>>> >>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not >>>> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list >>>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com >>>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso>>>> >>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, >>>> etc.) use>> the links above.>>>> >>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward >>>> any>> message poste
> d here to all past, current, or future members of the >> list.>> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or >> approve>> the archiving of list messages.>> >> >> _______________________________________________>> >> >> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes>> DeTomaso mailing list>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso>> >> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) >> use the links above.>> >> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any >> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the >> list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive >> or approve the archiving of list messages.> _______________________________________________> > > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes> DeTomaso mailing list> DeTomaso at server.detom
> asolist.com> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso> > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.> > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.> > _______________________________________________> > > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes> DeTomaso mailing list> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso> > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.> > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the
> archiving of list messages._______________________________________________Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCAPosted emails must not exceed 1.5 MegabytesDeTomaso mailing listDeTomaso at server.detomasolist.comhttp://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomasoTo manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
> -------------- next part --------------
> WELL SAID, SCOTT!! THANK YOU! You got right down to the bare bones of
> the issue.
>
> Judy
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott Couchman via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> To: Effie Richards <erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com>
> Cc: detomaso detomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Sent: Wed, Jun 8, 2016 2:31 pm
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA
> Effie, I don't know what you do or did for a living, but I'm curious if
> after say 20 years of doing your job, having the respect of all your
> peers, they suddenly brought someone new in to manage you that treated
> you like KaKa ( I think that was your word), didn't listen to your
> recommendations, tried to take away your tools, didn't include you in
> the meetings to decide how you would do your job, said hateful things
> to you......and OBTW DIDN'T PAY YOU ANYTHING! How long would you stay
> in that job? These folks stayed 6 MONTHS!! I think they should get a
> statue erected in their honor. I don't know you.....hopefully we will
> get a chance to meet and hear each other's Pantera story, and I agree
> we need to try to find a way out of the darkness we're in right now,
> but I don't think it's fair to challenge these two POCA stalwarts to
> "shift through dislikes and focus on the actual great benefits of this
> group". Your Pantera Brother :-) > On Jun 8, 2016, at 1:34 PM, Effie
> Richards <[1]erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com> wrote: > > I like your
> philosophical response, Chuck! > > Our first known philosophers,
> Aristoteles, Socrates and Sophocleous, were my ancestors! > The Greek
> word means "friend (or lover) of wise thoughts" and being Greek,
> please, please, ignore as much as you don't like and focus on the
> positive of this website. > > Where else can you find great guys who
> know the DeTomaso brand so well and love the car so much, they have
> become experts in its challenging mechanism! Focus on your "friends of
> wise thoughts" - the Pantera philosophers, their wealth of knowledge
> and their spirit of sharing such and forget the other stuff. > > I have
> been a "victim" of bullying, discrimination and other negative actions
> (as many of us have at times), but I stood strong, proud and determined
> to learn a new language and culture at 23 and succeed in a business
> world that was destined for men only at the time. If I had allowed
> "words" to stop me, I would be nothing now. > > Be a part of the great
> group of Pantera owners who are your friends and many times mentors.
> You have more to gain by staying. Be patient, shift though "kaka" and
> focus on the CAR! > I am amazed how quickly solutions/answers arrive
> from so many when you have a dilemma or a question about your car,
> whatever it may be. It is so impressive, isn't it? > > I'm not trying
> to convince anyone to do something they don't want to do. I am just
> pointing out that we can all shift through dislikes and focus on to the
> actual great benefits of this group. > > Respectfully, > Effie Richards
> > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: DeTomaso
> [[2]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of
> [3]cengles at cox.net > Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 12:28 PM > To:
> [4]steve at snclocks.com > Cc: detomaso detomaso > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso]
> POCA > > Dear Stephen, > > > > A philosophical response to the
> question: > "....what POCA does for me.." > > > What the new POCA does
> for you is to give you more value for your membership and a better
> membership experience. > > > What the old POCA did with volunteers and
> > enthusiasts in the days before the internet, was to provide a
> nationwide > organization that aided and abetted information and
> experience about the > difficulties and joys of owning a Pantera. The
> bright eyed amateurs > would type out newsletters and mail them. The
> newsletters and the > Profiles improved with time, but they both
> provided a framework for > Pantera owners across the nation to benefit
> from their fellow members. > Outside of southern California, it was the
> only therapy for being the > "Lone Ranger" in Enid, Oklahoma, for
> example. With the incorporation > of the Vegas Rally, a national
> meeting provided the faces to connect > with the names and the
> opportunity to socialize and build relationships. > Finally, the old
> Forum extended that to the internet with the results > that we all are
> familiar with. > > Currently, the new POCA offers all the high tech >
> satisfaction of digital cable attainment of various and sundry
> benefits. > > Historically, the old POCA was the foundation of > the
> relationships and friendships and Pantera ownership that we have >
> today. > > > > Philosophically yours, Chuck Engles > > >> On Wed, Jun
> 8, 2016 at 8:51 AM, Stephen wrote: >> >> I believe that Thomas gets to
> the heart of the issue with the current >> POCA >> leader. There have
> been a number of times that MS has responded to >> posts I >> put out
> on there on the previous forum in a way that made me wonder >> why I >>
> bothered to post at all. It took me a while to distinguish between >>
> the >> several Mikes that posted on the previous forum - it was the
> short one >> that >> I figured out first - and I quit reading his
> responses. Especially >> when I >> realized that he really doesn't know
> it all, and that his technical >> guidance >> was flawed as often as it
> was correct. >> >> I know that the short is doing his best to put
> together his idea of a >> better >> POCA site. And I know it will offer
> a lot. No doubt. NTL, his >> amazing >> ability to piss folks off with
> his truly marginal interpersonal skills >> is >> well known, and
> totally inappropriate for a person in his position. >> POCA is not this
> forum - and, well, vice versa. 3 years ago, when my >> wife >> and I
> bought 5332, I likely would have put up with the shorts crap to >> get
> >> what we needed - as I did in the past. Today - well, 5332 is a dream
> >> to >> drive, and I have this forum. Tell me again what POCA does for
> me - >> other >> than to remind me that some folk make terrible
> leaders? >> >> Stephen Nelson >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From:
> DeTomaso [[5]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On >>
> Behalf >> Of Thomas TAP:rnblom >> Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 1:36
> AM >> To: [6]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com >> Subject: Re:
> [DeTomaso] POCA >> >> 1) You can't do much about family, love it or
> hate it. >> >> 2) If you have an issue with a colleague, step away, if
> it is with >> management, get a new job >> >> 3) If you have an issue
> with the current leadership in a club you pay >> to be >> part of, then
> quitting, even temporarily, would at least send a fairly >> strong
> message that something is wrong, or else the club may not be >> for you
> >> anymore. >> >> As I've said before, I will likely not renew my POCA
> membership when >> it is >> due, and if I were ten years younger I
> would also get a new job. >> >> Life's too short to having to deal with
> a*holes. >> >> Thomas >> >>> Den 2016-06-08 kl. 08:48, skrev Ed Mendez:
> >>> Quitting is only going to hurt the club and the people in it who
> love >>> you. >> We are all family here. Quit because of one person you
> don't agree >> with? >> Quit because of a family member you don't get
> along with? If we all >> did that >> none of us would be working in our
> day jobs, or have a family at all. >>> >>> I assume punch my brother in
> the face, but he is still my brother and >>> that >> would really piss
> off my mom. >>> >>> Just saying. >>> >>> Better that maybe we all just
> step away from the computer screen for >>> a >> while, there's a whole
> big world out there. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus
> >>> >>>> On 8/06/2016, at 17:14, Stephen <[7]steve at snclocks.com> wrote:
> >>>> >>>> Dear GoNancy Haney - I can readily understand your letting go
> of >>>> your POCA membership - right now the leadership is proving to
> be >>>> just plain polarizing. Just don't let go of this forum! And,
> one >>>> day, when hoof in mouth is not so rampant you can perhaps
> rejoin. >>>> >>>> Stephen Nelson >>>> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: DeTomaso
> [[8]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On >>>> Behalf Of
> [9]gonancy at juno.com >>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 8:38 PM >>>> To:
> [10]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com >>>> Subject: [DeTomaso] POCA >>>>
> >>>> Dear Forum, >>>> Even though I've just been a lurker and
> occasional poster and >>>> spellcheck nazi on the Forum since its
> inception, I wanted to put it >>>> out to the Pantera Community that I
> will be letting Judy McCartney >>>> know that I am ending my membership
> in POCA effective immediately. >>>> That means my associate member, the
> Profiles Editor, will be leaving >>>> also. Mike has the June issue at
> the printer's right now. It will be >>>> his >> last issue. >>>> As an
> aside, Mike couldn't even put his own profile on the POCA >>>> website,
> even though he's on the BOD, because he's an associate >>>> member, >>
> not a "true " >>>> member according to whomever it was that he
> contacted about it. How >>>> do you like that? Makes him sound like a
> second class citizen. >>>> >>>> It's been a great 25 years, >>>>
> GoNancy Haney >>>> >>>> P.S. I listened in on the last BOD meeting last
> week and it was all >>>> I could do to keep my mouth shut. A monumental
> effort on my part. I >>>> could not believe my ears sometimes at what
> MS was saying. He is a >>>> real >> piece of work. >>>> >>>>
> ____________________________________________________________ >>>>
> Nextiva vFAX >>>> Why Do You Still Have An Old Fax Machine? >>>> >>>>
> [11]http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5757934166446134075b2st03v
> uc >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>> >>>>
> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not >>>>
> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list >>>>
> [12]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com >>>>
> [13]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso >>>> >>>>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, >>>>
> etc.) use the links above. >>>> >>>> Members who post to this list
> grant license to the list to forward >>>> any message posted here to
> all past, current, or future members of >>>> the >> list. >>>> They
> also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or >>>>
> approve the archiving of list messages. >>>> >>>>
> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>> >>>> Detomaso
> Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not >>>> exceed 1.5
> Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list >>>>
> [14]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com >>>>
> [15]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso >>>> >>>>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, >>>>
> etc.) use >> the links above. >>>> >>>> Members who post to this list
> grant license to the list to forward >>>> any >> message posted here to
> all past, current, or future members of the >> list. >> They also grant
> the list owner permission to maintain an archive or >> approve >> the
> archiving of list messages. >>>> >>>> >>>>
> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>> >>>> Detomaso
> Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not >>>> exceed 1.5
> Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list >>>>
> [16]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com >>>>
> [17]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso >>>> >>>>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, >>>>
> etc.) use >> the links above. >>>> >>>> Members who post to this list
> grant license to the list to forward >>>> any >> message posted here to
> all past, current, or future members of the >> list. >> They also grant
> the list owner permission to maintain an archive or >> approve >> the
> archiving of list messages. >> >> >>
> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> Detomaso Forum
> NO LONGER Managed by POCA >> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
> Megabytes >> DeTomaso mailing list >>
> [18]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com >>
> [19]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso >> >> To
> manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) >>
> use the links above. >> >> Members who post to this list grant license
> to the list to forward any >> message posted here to all past, current,
> or future members of the >> list. They also grant the list owner
> permission to maintain an archive >> or approve the archiving of list
> messages. > _______________________________________________ > > >
> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > Posted emails must not
> exceed 1.5 Megabytes > DeTomaso mailing list >
> [20]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com >
> [21]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To
> manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use
> the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant license to the
> list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future
> members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to
> maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. > >
> _______________________________________________ > > > Detomaso Forum NO
> LONGER Managed by POCA > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes >
> DeTomaso mailing list > [22]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com >
> [23]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To
> manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use
> the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant license to the
> list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future
> members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to
> maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
> _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO
> LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list [24]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> [25]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage
> your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the
> links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to
> forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members
> of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
> archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com
> 2. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com?
> 3. mailto:cengles at cox.net
> 4. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
> 5. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com?
> 6. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 7. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
> 8. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com?
> 9. mailto:gonancy at juno.com
> 10. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 11. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5757934166446134075b2st03vuc
> 12. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 13. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 14. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 15. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 16. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 17. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 18. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 19. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 20. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 21. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 22. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 23. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 24. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 25. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 18
> Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 22:04:59 +0000 (UTC)
> From: Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>
> To: fastgrandma <fastgrandma at aol.com>, "scottcouchman at yahoo.com"
> <scottcouchman at yahoo.com>, "erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com"
> <erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com>
> Cc: "detomaso at server.detomasolist.com"
> <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Now, Off his meds?
> Message-ID:
> <1468223141.8495.1465423499170.JavaMail.yahoo at mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> OK, he's not perfect, he often treats other people like they are insignificant peons, says hateful things about minorities, says things that cause you to shake your head and think he must be off his meds today, but hey, no one is perfect, I still won't vote for Hillary.?
>
> ?
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> OK, he's not perfect, he often treats other people like they are
> insignificant peons, says hateful things about minorities, says things
> that cause you to shake your head and think he must be off his meds
> today, but hey, no one is perfect, I still won't vote for Hillary.
> __________________________________________________________________
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 19
> Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2016 10:10:38 +1200
> From: Ed Mendez <edducati at mac.com>
> To: DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Subject: [DeTomaso] New POCA video
> Message-ID: <2A495664-F452-4531-A8AB-7D64B7D7FBC5 at mac.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> https://vimeo.com/169922457
>
> Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus
> -------------- next part --------------
> [1]https://vimeo.com/169922457
> Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus
>
>
> References
>
> 1. https://vimeo.com/169922457
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 20
> Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2016 10:13:41 +1200
> From: Ed Mendez <edducati at mac.com>
> To: Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>
> Cc: DeTomaso List <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>, The DeTomaso
> Registry Guy <detomasoregistry at gmail.com>, Dave <dave at damardirect.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum
> Message-ID: <5B47264F-8526-4F89-A339-CECA25D9FF90 at mac.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> The Ferrari and Porsche clubs have over $1,000,000 in reserves. Their annual reports are available online. SCCA has more than that last time I checked.
>
> Ed
>
> Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus
>
>> On 9/06/2016, at 05:51, Ken Green via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
>>
>> You mean do something before someone burns though the cash reserve
>> playing with their ideas of what a club should be. I heard the POCA
>> cash reserve is over $100,000. I don't know anything about the typical
>> size of cash reserves for car clubs, but that seems like a lot?
>> Ken
>> __________________________________________________________________
>>
>> From: Dave <dave at damardirect.com>
>> To: The DeTomaso Registry Guy <detomasoregistry at gmail.com>
>> Cc: DeTomaso List <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 10:18 AM
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum
>> Thank you Chuck for letting me know what has transpired within the
>> organization. Thank you Kurt for the resurrection.
>> It is interesting that the new POCA website forum is far behind this
>> forum as far as popularity. It is also worth noting that technology,
>> the "better", new format of the POCA, is suffering a lack of attendance
>> or participation, compared to this site. The phrase "build it & they
>> will come running" certainly does not sound like it is happening. So
>> why is the old guard allowing this to happen? It seems so flagrant. I
>> think I read a sentiment that in essence said, if you don't like the
>> new structure, you are not needed. This is a car group, how do you
>> censor or better, why would you threaten anyone who disagrees with
>> expulsion?
>> Seems there is the dominate group forcing the subordinate group to
>> leave, the very definition of expulsion.
>> I agree Chuck, so very sad. I would think change is needed sooner than
>> later.
>> Dave
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: The DeTomaso Registry Guy [mailto:[1]detomasoregistry at gmail.com]
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 2:27 PM
>> To: Dave
>> Cc: DeTomaso List
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum
>> Can someone enlighten me, please?
>> I am/was under the impression this email list or forum was rescued from
>> being dissolved by Kurt. (thank you Kurt) I was also under the
>> impression this site was not part of or controlled by POCA..
>> Is this true?
>> Thanks
>> IndyDave
>> Dave,
>> You missed someone's good explanation of the list history. It was
>> started long ago, and when it was time for the guy to move on, he
>> allowed POCA to 'manage' it under certain conditions.
>> Then recently MS decided it should be killed, favoring the POCA
>> Board-like forum.
>> Kurt Byrnes (sp ?) took responsibility and restarted it.
>> Now, the list is 'freed from POCA'... THANKS Kurt!
>> To use the POCA forum requires membership ($75 annually), it is
>> censored for anti-POCA content, is no better than the GREAT (and free)
>> PI Forum, actually much LESS than the PI Forum, and thus is not really
>> used.
>> And when newly-freed spirits discuss things 'here' some POCA people
>> feel compelled to answer.
>> Perhaps the POCA propaganda machine should re-evaluate their
>> communications method.
>> Or maybe Dave, you are adding your commentary too subtly for me (big
>> grin).
>> (Read between the lines ?!? What lines ?!? GRIN)
>> Now...
>> What caught my attention was a statement was made by the
>> POCA-propaganda machine (PPM) regarding evaluation of alternate
>> printers.
>> How this was presented did seem reasonable (at first!). Yet Judy DeRyke
>> (and/or others) commented on how the decision was actually made. This
>> was refuted by the PPM. So someone felt it necessary to post just how
>> POCA makes its decisions (well how Michael Shortt makes decisions for
>> ALL POCA members) using an actual e-mail message as the
>> fact/source/evidence. What better way to form an opinion than with
>> facts, right?
>> The posting of the facts was made by a non-POCA officer.
>> He was then threatened with censure and being kicked out of the club
>> for posting the evidence. WOW !
>> First, I do not believe the person posting the facts can or should be
>> punished. He did not sign a statement or agree to ANY terms that he is
>> in violation of. Challenging a lie is the right thing to do. If Mr.
>> Shortt wants to try to punish anyone, it should be himself for not
>> conveying the truth in the first place.
>> While I am not passing judgment on any one suggestion for improvement
>> of POCA, I do object to HOW things are done, and HOW people are being
>> treated.
>> More specifically how people who are not in full agreement with the
>> current POCA president are being treated. Let everyone focus on that
>>> one< issue. Correct that problem first, otherwise it will taint any
>> and all (otherwise possibly good) suggestions for change within POCA.
>> With the leak of this document, POCA members and non-members alike have
>> been given insight into just how POCA is currently being run. How the
>> PPM will respond will also be enlightening!
>> Sad, quite sad.
>> Here is an idea mentioned to me recently, perhaps if POCA wants to
>> respond to statements, they could do so, but on their own website, and
>> from their elected Public Relations guy (only), isn't that what the PR
>> job entails?
>> (Sorry to poke at Ed Mendez the current POCA PR guy, as he must have a
>> REALLY tough job, being elected to be the official POCA voice, but
>> having less-than-accurate statements made by the current POCA president
>> as IF he is the sole POCA voice.)
>> What a mess for the PR guy to be stuck with...
>> Chuck
>> _______________________________________________
>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> [2]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> [3]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
>> use the links above.
>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
>> list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
>> or approve the archiving of list messages.
>>
>> References
>>
>> 1. mailto:detomasoregistry at gmail.com
>> 2. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> 3. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>
>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>>
>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 21
> Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 15:20:44 -0700
> From: Dave <davel at emspace.com>
> To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Now, Off his meds?
> Message-ID: <e6b78d68-23c3-dadd-ef86-173511cf4a9f at emspace.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; Format="flowed"
>
> Pretty funny Ken.
>
> On 6/8/2016 3:04 PM, Ken Green via DeTomaso wrote:
>> OK, he's not perfect, he often treats other people like they are
>> insignificant peons, says hateful things about minorities, says things
>> that cause you to shake your head and think he must be off his meds
>> today, but hey, no one is perfect, I still won't vote for Hillary.
>> __________________________________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>
>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>>
>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
> -------------- next part --------------
> Pretty funny Ken.
>
> On 6/8/2016 3:04 PM, Ken Green via DeTomaso wrote:
>
> OK, he's not perfect, he often treats other people like they are
> insignificant peons, says hateful things about minorities, says things
> that cause you to shake your head and think he must be off his meds
> today, but hey, no one is perfect, I still won't vote for Hillary.
> __________________________________________________________________
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [1]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> [2]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the li
> nks above.
>
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message p
> osted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant
> the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of lis
> t messages.
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 2. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 22
> Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2016 10:23:51 +1200
> From: Ed Mendez <edducati at mac.com>
> To: Dave <davel at emspace.com>
> Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Now, Off his meds?
> Message-ID: <A9C31D3F-20D8-4088-939F-3FA4E5F17469 at mac.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Sorry couldn't help myself
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
> Name: image1.JPG
> Type: image/jpeg
> Size: 36466 bytes
> Desc: not available
> URL: <http://server.detomasolist.com/pipermail/detomaso/attachments/20160609/429aaa6c/attachment-0001.jpe>
> -------------- next part --------------
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus
>
>> On 9/06/2016, at 10:20, Dave <davel at emspace.com> wrote:
>>
>> Pretty funny Ken.
>>
>> On 6/8/2016 3:04 PM, Ken Green via DeTomaso wrote:
>>
>> OK, he's not perfect, he often treats other people like they are
>> insignificant peons, says hateful things about minorities, says things
>> that cause you to shake your head and think he must be off his meds
>> today, but hey, no one is perfect, I still won't vote for Hillary.
>> __________________________________________________________________
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> [1]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> [2]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>
>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the li
>> nks above.
>>
>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message p
>> osted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant
>> the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of lis
>> t messages.
>>
>> References
>>
>> 1. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> 2. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>
>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>>
>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 23
> Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 22:28:42 +0000
> From: "Himes, Terry (397C)" <terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov>
> To: Ed Mendez <edducati at mac.com>, Dave <davel at emspace.com>
> Cc: "detomaso at server.detomasolist.com"
> <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Now, Off his meds?
> Message-ID: <D37DE9DE.8AC78%thimes at jpl.nasa.gov>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Car Club! Car Club. Keep your religion and politics to yourselves. It just instigates more crap.
>
>
> "A Purple Heart proves you were smart enough to hatch a plan,
> stupid enough to try it and lucky enough to survive!"
>
> Terry W. Himes
> JPL Jet Propulsion Laboratory
> Dawn Spacecraft Team
> Rosetta Sequence Team Lead
> Phone: (818) 393-6261
> Cell: (818) 653-8213
> Fax: (818) 393-3147
> thimes at jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov>
> ??
>
> From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com>> on behalf of Ed Mendez <edducati at mac.com<mailto:edducati at mac.com>>
> Date: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 3:23 PM
> To: Dave <davel at emspace.com<mailto:davel at emspace.com>>
> Cc: "detomaso at server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>" <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Now, Off his meds?
>
> Sorry couldn't help myself
>
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> Car Club! Car Club. Keep your religion and politics to yourselves.
> It just instigates more crap.
>
> "A Purple Heart proves you were smart enough to hatch a plan,
>
> stupid enough to try it and lucky enough to survive!"
>
> Terry W. Himes
>
> JPL Jet Propulsion Laboratory
>
> Dawn Spacecraft Team
>
> Rosetta Sequence Team Lead
>
> Phone: (818) 393-6261
>
> Cell: (818) 653-8213
>
> Fax: (818) 393-3147
>
> [1]thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
>
> From: DeTomaso <[2]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf
> of Ed Mendez <[3]edducati at mac.com>
> Date: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 3:23 PM
> To: Dave <[4]davel at emspace.com>
> Cc: "[5]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com"
> <[6]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Now, Off his meds?
>
> Sorry couldn't help myself
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
> 2. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
> 3. mailto:edducati at mac.com
> 4. mailto:davel at emspace.com
> 5. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 6. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 24
> Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 15:32:28 -0700
> From: Judith McCartney <jpoca2 at hotmail.com>
> To: Chuck Engles <cengles at cox.net>, Tom Shinrock <tmshinro at aol.com>
> Cc: "detomaso at server.detomasolist.com"
> <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Anybody know....
> Message-ID: <COL131-W79205346841E459729E8B98A5E0 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> He was a member until 1993, no other record.
>
> Judith McCartney, Membership Director & Fun Rally coordinator.
>
>
>> Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 19:16:44 +0000
>> From: cengles at cox.net
>> To: tmshinro at aol.com
>> CC: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Anybody know....
>>
>> Dear Tom,
>>
>>
>> I do remember that name from years ago. That is all my
>> fuzzy memory can recall.
>>
>> Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 1:14 PM, Tom Shinrock via DeTomaso wrote:
>>
>>> I met a guy in a new golf group I started playing with that said when
>>> he lived in Denver he knew a guy named Jay Popp who had several
>>> Panteras and attended the Fun Rallys in Vegas.
>>>
>>>
>>> I looked for his name in the POCA directory and saw that he wasn't
>>> listed.
>>>
>>>
>>> I was just curious if anybody knew Jay and if he is still in the
>>> Pantera circle.
>>>
>>> Tom
>>> 5186
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
>>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>
>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
>>> use the links above.
>>>
>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
>>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
>>> list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
>>> or approve the archiving of list messages.
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>
>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>>
>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> He was a member until 1993, no other record.
> Judith McCartney, Membership Director & Fun Rally coordinator.
> > Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 19:16:44 +0000
> > From: cengles at cox.net
> > To: tmshinro at aol.com
> > CC: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Anybody know....
> >
> > Dear Tom,
> >
> >
> > I do remember that name from years ago. That is all my
> > fuzzy memory can recall.
> >
> > Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 1:14 PM, Tom Shinrock via DeTomaso wrote:
> >
> > > I met a guy in a new golf group I started playing with that said
> when
> > > he lived in Denver he knew a guy named Jay Popp who had several
> > > Panteras and attended the Fun Rallys in Vegas.
> > >
> > >
> > > I looked for his name in the POCA directory and saw that he wasn't
> > > listed.
> > >
> > >
> > > I was just curious if anybody knew Jay and if he is still in the
> > > Pantera circle.
> > >
> > > Tom
> > > 5186
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > >
> > >
> > > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
> > > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> > > DeTomaso mailing list
> > > DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > >
> > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
> etc.)
> > > use the links above.
> > >
> > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
> any
> > > message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
> > > list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
> archive
> > > or approve the archiving of list messages.
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
> > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
> > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >
> > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> use the links above.
> >
> > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
> any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
> list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
> or approve the archiving of list messages.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 25
> Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 17:53:00 -0500
> From: "Charles Engles" <cengles at cox.net>
> To: <audionut at hushmail.com>, <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA
> Message-ID: <004a01d1c1d8$8205cd10$86116730$@net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Dear Audiohut and Effie,
>
>
> Well, yes, we are brought together by our passion and love for the Pantera. Yes, it is only a car club. However, I have found that, at this point, I enjoy the Pantera people as much as or more than the wonderful Pantera.
>
> Because I have been around long enough to know personally or by reputation many of the Forum members and POCA members, I respect them as extraordinary people with whom I share a mutual fascination for the Pantera. It only a car club, but the fabric of the club is the people. When their voluntary unpaid efforts and contributions are belittled and disrespected to the point that they lose heart and drop out of the fabric, that is appalling. Granted the miracle of the new Forum keeps them in touch with us, it is still a loss to us and to the club. It is something more than a minor difference of opinion or point of view about a car or a car club.
>
> For what it's worth.
>
>
> Still philosophically yours, Chuck Engles
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of audionut at hushmail.com
> Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 3:22 PM
> To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA
>
> Damn. Hate to see this happen. Why should anything that is going on
> personally amongst POCA members get to the point where folks are quitting? I mean, it's just a car club, right? If people start an organization out of love for a special car and the whole thing turns into some kind of petty battleground, what the hell is the point?
> Isn't it supposed to be fun to enjoy and preserve our cars together?
> Seems very odd to me that the simple human value of having fun, with the Pantera interest in particular, is not being held higher than nose-to-the-grindstone, hard-core business values that some feel must be maintained with fanatical fervor. I do not pretend to know all the
> inside details here-- I can only say that I do not give a flying
> turd if we spend too much $$ on a certain print shop or whether we recruit new members. I don't even understand "recruiting" anyway.
> Whenever someone tries to recruit me for anything, I feel like whatever it is they want me to join must suck or else they wouldn't feel the need to do it. Let new Pantera people come to us.
> ( I will miss the newsletter in the mail for sure. There is no chance that I will go digging for it on the internet.) So maybe we voted "Vlad The Impaler" to the POCA helm? Oops. Oh well, looks like we gotta ride this one out, folks. Not a big deal,
> unless you are among the politburo and are not digging it. If that
> is the case, by all means bow-out. I sure would. But, to me anyway, POCA is all of us Pantera lovers and that can only amount to more good than bad. Sorry to see someone go who was doing a great job with Profiles and who clearly had a passion for doing so. That job is no cakewalk.
> Sent using Hushmail
> On June 7, 2016 at 8:39 PM, gonancy at juno.com wrote:Dear Forum,
> Even though I've just been a lurker and occasional poster and spellcheck nazi on the Forum since its inception, I wanted to put it out to the Pantera Community that I will be letting Judy McCartney know that I am ending my membership in POCA effective immediately.
> That means my associate member, the Profiles Editor, will be leaving also. Mike has the June issue at the printer's right now. It will be his last issue.
> As an aside, Mike couldn't even put his own profile on the POCA website, even though he's on the BOD, because he's an associate member, not a "true " member according to whomever it was that he contacted about it. How do you like that? Makes him sound like a second class citizen.
>
> It's been a great 25 years,
> GoNancy Haney
>
> P.S. I listened in on the last BOD meeting last week and it was all I could do to keep my mouth shut. A monumental effort on my part. I could not believe my ears sometimes at what MS was saying. He is a real piece of work.
> ____________________________________________________________
> Nextiva vFAX
> Why Do You Still Have An Old Fax Machine?
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5757934166446134075b2st03vuc
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 26
> Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2016 18:53:49 -0400
> From: Will Kooiman <will.kooiman at gmail.com>
> To: fastgrandma <fastgrandma at aol.com>, <scottcouchman at yahoo.com>,
> <erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com>
> Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA
> Message-ID: <D37E10CD.153FDE%will.kooiman at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> I've said before that I'm leaving POCA when my membership expires -
> assuming I still feel the same way in December.
>
> I'm not going to make a dramatic exit. It's not like I'm selling my car
> or anything. I'm just not going to renew - simple as that.
>
> Reasons:
>
> 1. I don't like the way long-term members are being treated. They have
> put a lot of heart and soul into POCA. It's shameful how they have been
> treated.
> 2. I don't like the way Michael treats people that disagree with him. It
> reflects very poorly on POCA, and also on the board since the board lets
> him get away with it.
> 3. I don't like the discussions the board has in secrecy. If they are
> afraid to make those discussions public, they shouldn't have those
> discussions at all.
> 4. I don't want to receive mailings that are full of advertising. I
> receive a Porsche magazine and I used to receive one from the Viper Club.
> Both go in the trash, usually without being opened. I'm happy to see ads
> from the usual Pantera vendors, but gimme a break - seat covers?
> 5. I don't like the push for "you can't do XXX unless you are a fully
> paid member". I'm not suggesting that everything should be free, but it
> has gone too far. There are words for this. It's called being exclusive
> or inclusive. An inclusive club invites new and existing members to
> participate. An exclusive club says, "We don't want you or need you. You
> can only participate if you give us money." I know that isn't the intent,
> but that's how it is perceived. So, if there is a new Pantera owner that
> is considering joining the club, he can't go to a local club meeting until
> he pays $85? What about the website? You can't get past door #1 until
> you are a fully paid member?
> 6. There is no a local chapter near me. If I were still in Houston, I
> would stay in POCA - but only to support the local club. The national
> club does nothing for me.
>
> I know - I said I'm not making a dramatic exit, and then I listed 6
> things. I only listed those things to help POCA deal with their problems.
> If I just left in December, POCA wouldn't know why I left. I'm not
> pissed or upset or anything like that. I'm disappointed, but that's about
> the extent of it.
>
> --
> Will
>
>
>
>
>
> On 6/8/16 5:42 PM, "fastgrandma via DeTomaso"
> <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
>
>> WELL SAID, SCOTT!! THANK YOU! You got right down to the bare bones of
>> the issue.
>>
>> Judy
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Scott Couchman via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
>> To: Effie Richards <erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com>
>> Cc: detomaso detomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
>> Sent: Wed, Jun 8, 2016 2:31 pm
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA
>> Effie, I don't know what you do or did for a living, but I'm curious if
>> after say 20 years of doing your job, having the respect of all your
>> peers, they suddenly brought someone new in to manage you that treated
>> you like KaKa ( I think that was your word), didn't listen to your
>> recommendations, tried to take away your tools, didn't include you in
>> the meetings to decide how you would do your job, said hateful things
>> to you......and OBTW DIDN'T PAY YOU ANYTHING! How long would you stay
>> in that job? These folks stayed 6 MONTHS!! I think they should get a
>> statue erected in their honor. I don't know you.....hopefully we will
>> get a chance to meet and hear each other's Pantera story, and I agree
>> we need to try to find a way out of the darkness we're in right now,
>> but I don't think it's fair to challenge these two POCA stalwarts to
>> "shift through dislikes and focus on the actual great benefits of this
>> group". Your Pantera Brother :-) > On Jun 8, 2016, at 1:34 PM, Effie
>> Richards <[1]erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com> wrote: > > I like your
>> philosophical response, Chuck! > > Our first known philosophers,
>> Aristoteles, Socrates and Sophocleous, were my ancestors! > The Greek
>> word means "friend (or lover) of wise thoughts" and being Greek,
>> please, please, ignore as much as you don't like and focus on the
>> positive of this website. > > Where else can you find great guys who
>> know the DeTomaso brand so well and love the car so much, they have
>> become experts in its challenging mechanism! Focus on your "friends of
>> wise thoughts" - the Pantera philosophers, their wealth of knowledge
>> and their spirit of sharing such and forget the other stuff. > > I have
>> been a "victim" of bullying, discrimination and other negative actions
>> (as many of us have at times), but I stood strong, proud and determined
>> to learn a new language and culture at 23 and succeed in a business
>> world that was destined for men only at the time. If I had allowed
>> "words" to stop me, I would be nothing now. > > Be a part of the great
>> group of Pantera owners who are your friends and many times mentors.
>> You have more to gain by staying. Be patient, shift though "kaka" and
>> focus on the CAR! > I am amazed how quickly solutions/answers arrive
>> from so many when you have a dilemma or a question about your car,
>> whatever it may be. It is so impressive, isn't it? > > I'm not trying
>> to convince anyone to do something they don't want to do. I am just
>> pointing out that we can all shift through dislikes and focus on to the
>> actual great benefits of this group. > > Respectfully, > Effie Richards
>> > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: DeTomaso
>> [[2]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of
>> [3]cengles at cox.net > Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 12:28 PM > To:
>> [4]steve at snclocks.com > Cc: detomaso detomaso > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso]
>> POCA > > Dear Stephen, > > > > A philosophical response to the
>> question: > "....what POCA does for me.." > > > What the new POCA does
>> for you is to give you more value for your membership and a better
>> membership experience. > > > What the old POCA did with volunteers and
>> > enthusiasts in the days before the internet, was to provide a
>> nationwide > organization that aided and abetted information and
>> experience about the > difficulties and joys of owning a Pantera. The
>> bright eyed amateurs > would type out newsletters and mail them. The
>> newsletters and the > Profiles improved with time, but they both
>> provided a framework for > Pantera owners across the nation to benefit
>> from their fellow members. > Outside of southern California, it was the
>> only therapy for being the > "Lone Ranger" in Enid, Oklahoma, for
>> example. With the incorporation > of the Vegas Rally, a national
>> meeting provided the faces to connect > with the names and the
>> opportunity to socialize and build relationships. > Finally, the old
>> Forum extended that to the internet with the results > that we all are
>> familiar with. > > Currently, the new POCA offers all the high tech >
>> satisfaction of digital cable attainment of various and sundry
>> benefits. > > Historically, the old POCA was the foundation of > the
>> relationships and friendships and Pantera ownership that we have >
>> today. > > > > Philosophically yours, Chuck Engles > > >> On Wed, Jun
>> 8, 2016 at 8:51 AM, Stephen wrote: >> >> I believe that Thomas gets to
>> the heart of the issue with the current >> POCA >> leader. There have
>> been a number of times that MS has responded to >> posts I >> put out
>> on there on the previous forum in a way that made me wonder >> why I >>
>> bothered to post at all. It took me a while to distinguish between >>
>> the >> several Mikes that posted on the previous forum - it was the
>> short one >> that >> I figured out first - and I quit reading his
>> responses. Especially >> when I >> realized that he really doesn't know
>> it all, and that his technical >> guidance >> was flawed as often as it
>> was correct. >> >> I know that the short is doing his best to put
>> together his idea of a >> better >> POCA site. And I know it will offer
>> a lot. No doubt. NTL, his >> amazing >> ability to piss folks off with
>> his truly marginal interpersonal skills >> is >> well known, and
>> totally inappropriate for a person in his position. >> POCA is not this
>> forum - and, well, vice versa. 3 years ago, when my >> wife >> and I
>> bought 5332, I likely would have put up with the shorts crap to >> get
>> >> what we needed - as I did in the past. Today - well, 5332 is a dream
>> >> to >> drive, and I have this forum. Tell me again what POCA does for
>> me - >> other >> than to remind me that some folk make terrible
>> leaders? >> >> Stephen Nelson >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From:
>> DeTomaso [[5]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On >>
>> Behalf >> Of Thomas TAP:rnblom >> Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 1:36
>> AM >> To: [6]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com >> Subject: Re:
>> [DeTomaso] POCA >> >> 1) You can't do much about family, love it or
>> hate it. >> >> 2) If you have an issue with a colleague, step away, if
>> it is with >> management, get a new job >> >> 3) If you have an issue
>> with the current leadership in a club you pay >> to be >> part of, then
>> quitting, even temporarily, would at least send a fairly >> strong
>> message that something is wrong, or else the club may not be >> for you
>> >> anymore. >> >> As I've said before, I will likely not renew my POCA
>> membership when >> it is >> due, and if I were ten years younger I
>> would also get a new job. >> >> Life's too short to having to deal with
>> a*holes. >> >> Thomas >> >>> Den 2016-06-08 kl. 08:48, skrev Ed Mendez:
>> >>> Quitting is only going to hurt the club and the people in it who
>> love >>> you. >> We are all family here. Quit because of one person you
>> don't agree >> with? >> Quit because of a family member you don't get
>> along with? If we all >> did that >> none of us would be working in our
>> day jobs, or have a family at all. >>> >>> I assume punch my brother in
>> the face, but he is still my brother and >>> that >> would really piss
>> off my mom. >>> >>> Just saying. >>> >>> Better that maybe we all just
>> step away from the computer screen for >>> a >> while, there's a whole
>> big world out there. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus
>> >>> >>>> On 8/06/2016, at 17:14, Stephen <[7]steve at snclocks.com> wrote:
>> >>>> >>>> Dear GoNancy Haney - I can readily understand your letting go
>> of >>>> your POCA membership - right now the leadership is proving to
>> be >>>> just plain polarizing. Just don't let go of this forum! And,
>> one >>>> day, when hoof in mouth is not so rampant you can perhaps
>> rejoin. >>>> >>>> Stephen Nelson >>>> >>>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>>> From: DeTomaso
>> [[8]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On >>>> Behalf Of
>> [9]gonancy at juno.com >>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 8:38 PM >>>> To:
>> [10]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com >>>> Subject: [DeTomaso] POCA >>>>
>> >>>> Dear Forum, >>>> Even though I've just been a lurker and
>> occasional poster and >>>> spellcheck nazi on the Forum since its
>> inception, I wanted to put it >>>> out to the Pantera Community that I
>> will be letting Judy McCartney >>>> know that I am ending my membership
>> in POCA effective immediately. >>>> That means my associate member, the
>> Profiles Editor, will be leaving >>>> also. Mike has the June issue at
>> the printer's right now. It will be >>>> his >> last issue. >>>> As an
>> aside, Mike couldn't even put his own profile on the POCA >>>> website,
>> even though he's on the BOD, because he's an associate >>>> member, >>
>> not a "true " >>>> member according to whomever it was that he
>> contacted about it. How >>>> do you like that? Makes him sound like a
>> second class citizen. >>>> >>>> It's been a great 25 years, >>>>
>> GoNancy Haney >>>> >>>> P.S. I listened in on the last BOD meeting last
>> week and it was all >>>> I could do to keep my mouth shut. A monumental
>> effort on my part. I >>>> could not believe my ears sometimes at what
>> MS was saying. He is a >>>> real >> piece of work. >>>> >>>>
>> ____________________________________________________________ >>>>
>> Nextiva vFAX >>>> Why Do You Still Have An Old Fax Machine? >>>> >>>>
>> [11]http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5757934166446134075b2st03v
>> uc >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>> >>>>
>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not >>>>
>> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list >>>>
>> [12]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com >>>>
>> [13]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso >>>> >>>>
>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, >>>>
>> etc.) use the links above. >>>> >>>> Members who post to this list
>> grant license to the list to forward >>>> any message posted here to
>> all past, current, or future members of >>>> the >> list. >>>> They
>> also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or >>>>
>> approve the archiving of list messages. >>>> >>>>
>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>> >>>> Detomaso
>> Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not >>>> exceed 1.5
>> Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list >>>>
>> [14]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com >>>>
>> [15]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso >>>> >>>>
>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, >>>>
>> etc.) use >> the links above. >>>> >>>> Members who post to this list
>> grant license to the list to forward >>>> any >> message posted here to
>> all past, current, or future members of the >> list. >> They also grant
>> the list owner permission to maintain an archive or >> approve >> the
>> archiving of list messages. >>>> >>>> >>>>
>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>> >>>> Detomaso
>> Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not >>>> exceed 1.5
>> Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list >>>>
>> [16]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com >>>>
>> [17]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso >>>> >>>>
>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, >>>>
>> etc.) use >> the links above. >>>> >>>> Members who post to this list
>> grant license to the list to forward >>>> any >> message posted here to
>> all past, current, or future members of the >> list. >> They also grant
>> the list owner permission to maintain an archive or >> approve >> the
>> archiving of list messages. >> >> >>
>> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> Detomaso Forum
>> NO LONGER Managed by POCA >> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
>> Megabytes >> DeTomaso mailing list >>
>> [18]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com >>
>> [19]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso >> >> To
>> manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) >>
>> use the links above. >> >> Members who post to this list grant license
>> to the list to forward any >> message posted here to all past, current,
>> or future members of the >> list. They also grant the list owner
>> permission to maintain an archive >> or approve the archiving of list
>> messages. > _______________________________________________ > > >
>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > Posted emails must not
>> exceed 1.5 Megabytes > DeTomaso mailing list >
>> [20]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com >
>> [21]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To
>> manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use
>> the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant license to the
>> list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future
>> members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to
>> maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. > >
>> _______________________________________________ > > > Detomaso Forum NO
>> LONGER Managed by POCA > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes >
>> DeTomaso mailing list > [22]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com >
>> [23]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To
>> manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use
>> the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant license to the
>> list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future
>> members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to
>> maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
>> _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO
>> LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>> DeTomaso mailing list [24]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> [25]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage
>> your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the
>> links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to
>> forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members
>> of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
>> archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
>>
>> References
>>
>> 1. mailto:erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com
>> 2. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com?
>> 3. mailto:cengles at cox.net
>> 4. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
>> 5. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com?
>> 6. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> 7. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
>> 8. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com?
>> 9. mailto:gonancy at juno.com
>> 10. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> 11.
>> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5757934166446134075b2st03vuc
>> 12. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> 13. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>> 14. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> 15. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>> 16. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> 17. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>> 18. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> 19. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>> 20. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> 21. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>> 22. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> 23. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>> 24. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> 25. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>
>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use
>> the links above.
>>
>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list.
>> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or
>> approve the archiving of list messages.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 27
> Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 13:00:32 -1000
> From: "Scott Mead Photography" <scott at scottmeadphotography.com>
> To: "'Charles Engles'" <cengles at cox.net>,
> <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA
> Message-ID: <037c01d1c1d9$912eea50$b38cbef0$@scottmeadphotography.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Well said, Chuck.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf
> Of Charles Engles
> Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 12:53 PM
> To: audionut at hushmail.com; detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA
>
> Dear Audiohut and Effie,
>
>
> Well, yes, we are brought together by our passion and love for
> the Pantera. Yes, it is only a car club. However, I have found that, at
> this point, I enjoy the Pantera people as much as or more than the wonderful
> Pantera.
>
> Because I have been around long enough to know personally or by
> reputation many of the Forum members and POCA members, I respect them as
> extraordinary people with whom I share a mutual fascination for the Pantera.
> It only a car club, but the fabric of the club is the people. When their
> voluntary unpaid efforts and contributions are belittled and disrespected to
> the point that they lose heart and drop out of the fabric, that is
> appalling. Granted the miracle of the new Forum keeps them in touch with us,
> it is still a loss to us and to the club. It is something more than a minor
> difference of opinion or point of view about a car or a car club.
>
> For what it's worth.
>
>
> Still philosophically yours, Chuck Engles
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf
> Of audionut at hushmail.com
> Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 3:22 PM
> To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA
>
> Damn. Hate to see this happen. Why should anything that is going on
> personally amongst POCA members get to the point where folks are quitting? I
> mean, it's just a car club, right? If people start an organization out of
> love for a special car and the whole thing turns into some kind of petty
> battleground, what the hell is the point?
> Isn't it supposed to be fun to enjoy and preserve our cars together?
> Seems very odd to me that the simple human value of having fun, with the
> Pantera interest in particular, is not being held higher than
> nose-to-the-grindstone, hard-core business values that some feel must be
> maintained with fanatical fervor. I do not pretend to know all the
> inside details here-- I can only say that I do not give a flying
> turd if we spend too much $$ on a certain print shop or whether we recruit
> new members. I don't even understand "recruiting" anyway.
> Whenever someone tries to recruit me for anything, I feel like whatever it
> is they want me to join must suck or else they wouldn't feel the need to do
> it. Let new Pantera people come to us.
> ( I will miss the newsletter in the mail for sure. There is no chance that
> I will go digging for it on the internet.) So maybe we voted "Vlad The
> Impaler" to the POCA helm? Oops. Oh well, looks like we gotta ride this
> one out, folks. Not a big deal,
> unless you are among the politburo and are not digging it. If that
> is the case, by all means bow-out. I sure would. But, to me anyway, POCA
> is all of us Pantera lovers and that can only amount to more good than bad.
> Sorry to see someone go who was doing a great job with Profiles and who
> clearly had a passion for doing so. That job is no cakewalk.
> Sent using Hushmail
> On June 7, 2016 at 8:39 PM, gonancy at juno.com wrote:Dear Forum,
> Even though I've just been a lurker and occasional poster and
> spellcheck nazi on the Forum since its inception, I wanted to put it out to
> the Pantera Community that I will be letting Judy McCartney know that I am
> ending my membership in POCA effective immediately.
> That means my associate member, the Profiles Editor, will be leaving also.
> Mike has the June issue at the printer's right now. It will be his last
> issue.
> As an aside, Mike couldn't even put his own profile on the POCA website,
> even though he's on the BOD, because he's an associate member, not a "true "
> member according to whomever it was that he contacted about it. How do you
> like that? Makes him sound like a second class citizen.
>
> It's been a great 25 years,
> GoNancy Haney
>
> P.S. I listened in on the last BOD meeting last week and it was all I could
> do to keep my mouth shut. A monumental effort on my part. I could not
> believe my ears sometimes at what MS was saying. He is a real piece of work.
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> Nextiva vFAX
> Why Do You Still Have An Old Fax Machine?
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5757934166446134075b2st03vuc
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
> Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use
> the links above.
>
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list.
> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve
> the archiving of list messages.
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
> Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use
> the links above.
>
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list.
> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve
> the archiving of list messages.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 28
> Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2016 19:00:57 -0400
> From: Will Kooiman <will.kooiman at gmail.com>
> To: Ed Mendez <edducati at mac.com>, Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>
> Cc: DeTomaso List <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>, The DeTomaso
> Registry Guy <detomasoregistry at gmail.com>, Dave <dave at damardirect.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum
> Message-ID: <D37E1A82.15408A%will.kooiman at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> The Porsche club has over 100,000 members.
>
> The Ferrari club has over 6,000.
>
> It isn't exactly an apples-to-apples comparison.
>
> You need to consider what the reserves might be used for. Personally, I
> think $100,00 sounds about right, but I would just be guessing. I'd have
> to see a risk assessment to make an educated guess on an acceptable cash
> reserve.
>
> --
> Will
>
>
>
>
>
> On 6/8/16 6:13 PM, "Ed Mendez" <edducati at mac.com> wrote:
>
>> The Ferrari and Porsche clubs have over $1,000,000 in reserves. Their
>> annual reports are available online. SCCA has more than that last time I
>> checked.
>>
>> Ed
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus
>>
>>> On 9/06/2016, at 05:51, Ken Green via DeTomaso
>>> <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> You mean do something before someone burns though the cash reserve
>>> playing with their ideas of what a club should be. I heard the POCA
>>> cash reserve is over $100,000. I don't know anything about the
>>> typical
>>> size of cash reserves for car clubs, but that seems like a lot?
>>> Ken
>>> __________________________________________________________________
>>>
>>> From: Dave <dave at damardirect.com>
>>> To: The DeTomaso Registry Guy <detomasoregistry at gmail.com>
>>> Cc: DeTomaso List <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 10:18 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum
>>> Thank you Chuck for letting me know what has transpired within the
>>> organization. Thank you Kurt for the resurrection.
>>> It is interesting that the new POCA website forum is far behind this
>>> forum as far as popularity. It is also worth noting that technology,
>>> the "better", new format of the POCA, is suffering a lack of
>>> attendance
>>> or participation, compared to this site. The phrase "build it & they
>>> will come running" certainly does not sound like it is happening. So
>>> why is the old guard allowing this to happen? It seems so flagrant. I
>>> think I read a sentiment that in essence said, if you don't like the
>>> new structure, you are not needed. This is a car group, how do you
>>> censor or better, why would you threaten anyone who disagrees with
>>> expulsion?
>>> Seems there is the dominate group forcing the subordinate group to
>>> leave, the very definition of expulsion.
>>> I agree Chuck, so very sad. I would think change is needed sooner than
>>> later.
>>> Dave
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: The DeTomaso Registry Guy [mailto:[1]detomasoregistry at gmail.com]
>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 2:27 PM
>>> To: Dave
>>> Cc: DeTomaso List
>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum
>>> Can someone enlighten me, please?
>>> I am/was under the impression this email list or forum was rescued
>>> from
>>> being dissolved by Kurt. (thank you Kurt) I was also under the
>>> impression this site was not part of or controlled by POCA..
>>> Is this true?
>>> Thanks
>>> IndyDave
>>> Dave,
>>> You missed someone's good explanation of the list history. It was
>>> started long ago, and when it was time for the guy to move on, he
>>> allowed POCA to 'manage' it under certain conditions.
>>> Then recently MS decided it should be killed, favoring the POCA
>>> Board-like forum.
>>> Kurt Byrnes (sp ?) took responsibility and restarted it.
>>> Now, the list is 'freed from POCA'... THANKS Kurt!
>>> To use the POCA forum requires membership ($75 annually), it is
>>> censored for anti-POCA content, is no better than the GREAT (and free)
>>> PI Forum, actually much LESS than the PI Forum, and thus is not really
>>> used.
>>> And when newly-freed spirits discuss things 'here' some POCA people
>>> feel compelled to answer.
>>> Perhaps the POCA propaganda machine should re-evaluate their
>>> communications method.
>>> Or maybe Dave, you are adding your commentary too subtly for me (big
>>> grin).
>>> (Read between the lines ?!? What lines ?!? GRIN)
>>> Now...
>>> What caught my attention was a statement was made by the
>>> POCA-propaganda machine (PPM) regarding evaluation of alternate
>>> printers.
>>> How this was presented did seem reasonable (at first!). Yet Judy
>>> DeRyke
>>> (and/or others) commented on how the decision was actually made. This
>>> was refuted by the PPM. So someone felt it necessary to post just how
>>> POCA makes its decisions (well how Michael Shortt makes decisions for
>>> ALL POCA members) using an actual e-mail message as the
>>> fact/source/evidence. What better way to form an opinion than with
>>> facts, right?
>>> The posting of the facts was made by a non-POCA officer.
>>> He was then threatened with censure and being kicked out of the club
>>> for posting the evidence. WOW !
>>> First, I do not believe the person posting the facts can or should be
>>> punished. He did not sign a statement or agree to ANY terms that he
>>> is
>>> in violation of. Challenging a lie is the right thing to do. If Mr.
>>> Shortt wants to try to punish anyone, it should be himself for not
>>> conveying the truth in the first place.
>>> While I am not passing judgment on any one suggestion for improvement
>>> of POCA, I do object to HOW things are done, and HOW people are being
>>> treated.
>>> More specifically how people who are not in full agreement with the
>>> current POCA president are being treated. Let everyone focus on that
>>>> one< issue. Correct that problem first, otherwise it will taint any
>>> and all (otherwise possibly good) suggestions for change within POCA.
>>> With the leak of this document, POCA members and non-members alike
>>> have
>>> been given insight into just how POCA is currently being run. How the
>>> PPM will respond will also be enlightening!
>>> Sad, quite sad.
>>> Here is an idea mentioned to me recently, perhaps if POCA wants to
>>> respond to statements, they could do so, but on their own website, and
>>> from their elected Public Relations guy (only), isn't that what the PR
>>> job entails?
>>> (Sorry to poke at Ed Mendez the current POCA PR guy, as he must have a
>>> REALLY tough job, being elected to be the official POCA voice, but
>>> having less-than-accurate statements made by the current POCA
>>> president
>>> as IF he is the sole POCA voice.)
>>> What a mess for the PR guy to be stuck with...
>>> Chuck
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
>>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>> [2]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>> [3]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
>>> use the links above.
>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
>>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
>>> list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
>>> or approve the archiving of list messages.
>>>
>>> References
>>>
>>> 1. mailto:detomasoregistry at gmail.com
>>> 2. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>> 3. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
>>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>
>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
>>> use the links above.
>>>
>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
>>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list.
>>> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or
>>> approve the archiving of list messages.
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>
>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use
>> the links above.
>>
>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list.
>> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or
>> approve the archiving of list messages.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 29
> Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2016 11:02:41 +1200
> From: Ed Mendez <edducati at mac.com>
> To: Will Kooiman <will.kooiman at gmail.com>
> Cc: DeTomaso List <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>, Ken Green
> <kenn_green at yahoo.com>, The DeTomaso Registry Guy
> <detomasoregistry at gmail.com>, Dave <dave at damardirect.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum
> Message-ID: <AD3BD32C-9C7F-417B-BF45-4A1897E1B5F1 at mac.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> It's two years of operating reserve. As explained by Bob Reid.
>
> Ed
>
> Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus
>
>> On 9/06/2016, at 11:00, Will Kooiman <will.kooiman at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> The Porsche club has over 100,000 members.
>>
>> The Ferrari club has over 6,000.
>>
>> It isn't exactly an apples-to-apples comparison.
>>
>> You need to consider what the reserves might be used for. Personally, I
>> think $100,00 sounds about right, but I would just be guessing. I'd have
>> to see a risk assessment to make an educated guess on an acceptable cash
>> reserve.
>>
>> --
>> Will
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 6/8/16 6:13 PM, "Ed Mendez" <edducati at mac.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> The Ferrari and Porsche clubs have over $1,000,000 in reserves. Their
>>> annual reports are available online. SCCA has more than that last time I
>>> checked.
>>>
>>> Ed
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus
>>>
>>>> On 9/06/2016, at 05:51, Ken Green via DeTomaso
>>>> <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> You mean do something before someone burns though the cash reserve
>>>> playing with their ideas of what a club should be. I heard the POCA
>>>> cash reserve is over $100,000. I don't know anything about the
>>>> typical
>>>> size of cash reserves for car clubs, but that seems like a lot?
>>>> Ken
>>>> __________________________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> From: Dave <dave at damardirect.com>
>>>> To: The DeTomaso Registry Guy <detomasoregistry at gmail.com>
>>>> Cc: DeTomaso List <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 10:18 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum
>>>> Thank you Chuck for letting me know what has transpired within the
>>>> organization. Thank you Kurt for the resurrection.
>>>> It is interesting that the new POCA website forum is far behind this
>>>> forum as far as popularity. It is also worth noting that technology,
>>>> the "better", new format of the POCA, is suffering a lack of
>>>> attendance
>>>> or participation, compared to this site. The phrase "build it & they
>>>> will come running" certainly does not sound like it is happening. So
>>>> why is the old guard allowing this to happen? It seems so flagrant. I
>>>> think I read a sentiment that in essence said, if you don't like the
>>>> new structure, you are not needed. This is a car group, how do you
>>>> censor or better, why would you threaten anyone who disagrees with
>>>> expulsion?
>>>> Seems there is the dominate group forcing the subordinate group to
>>>> leave, the very definition of expulsion.
>>>> I agree Chuck, so very sad. I would think change is needed sooner than
>>>> later.
>>>> Dave
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: The DeTomaso Registry Guy [mailto:[1]detomasoregistry at gmail.com]
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 2:27 PM
>>>> To: Dave
>>>> Cc: DeTomaso List
>>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum
>>>> Can someone enlighten me, please?
>>>> I am/was under the impression this email list or forum was rescued
>>>> from
>>>> being dissolved by Kurt. (thank you Kurt) I was also under the
>>>> impression this site was not part of or controlled by POCA..
>>>> Is this true?
>>>> Thanks
>>>> IndyDave
>>>> Dave,
>>>> You missed someone's good explanation of the list history. It was
>>>> started long ago, and when it was time for the guy to move on, he
>>>> allowed POCA to 'manage' it under certain conditions.
>>>> Then recently MS decided it should be killed, favoring the POCA
>>>> Board-like forum.
>>>> Kurt Byrnes (sp ?) took responsibility and restarted it.
>>>> Now, the list is 'freed from POCA'... THANKS Kurt!
>>>> To use the POCA forum requires membership ($75 annually), it is
>>>> censored for anti-POCA content, is no better than the GREAT (and free)
>>>> PI Forum, actually much LESS than the PI Forum, and thus is not really
>>>> used.
>>>> And when newly-freed spirits discuss things 'here' some POCA people
>>>> feel compelled to answer.
>>>> Perhaps the POCA propaganda machine should re-evaluate their
>>>> communications method.
>>>> Or maybe Dave, you are adding your commentary too subtly for me (big
>>>> grin).
>>>> (Read between the lines ?!? What lines ?!? GRIN)
>>>> Now...
>>>> What caught my attention was a statement was made by the
>>>> POCA-propaganda machine (PPM) regarding evaluation of alternate
>>>> printers.
>>>> How this was presented did seem reasonable (at first!). Yet Judy
>>>> DeRyke
>>>> (and/or others) commented on how the decision was actually made. This
>>>> was refuted by the PPM. So someone felt it necessary to post just how
>>>> POCA makes its decisions (well how Michael Shortt makes decisions for
>>>> ALL POCA members) using an actual e-mail message as the
>>>> fact/source/evidence. What better way to form an opinion than with
>>>> facts, right?
>>>> The posting of the facts was made by a non-POCA officer.
>>>> He was then threatened with censure and being kicked out of the club
>>>> for posting the evidence. WOW !
>>>> First, I do not believe the person posting the facts can or should be
>>>> punished. He did not sign a statement or agree to ANY terms that he
>>>> is
>>>> in violation of. Challenging a lie is the right thing to do. If Mr.
>>>> Shortt wants to try to punish anyone, it should be himself for not
>>>> conveying the truth in the first place.
>>>> While I am not passing judgment on any one suggestion for improvement
>>>> of POCA, I do object to HOW things are done, and HOW people are being
>>>> treated.
>>>> More specifically how people who are not in full agreement with the
>>>> current POCA president are being treated. Let everyone focus on that
>>>>> one< issue. Correct that problem first, otherwise it will taint any
>>>> and all (otherwise possibly good) suggestions for change within POCA.
>>>> With the leak of this document, POCA members and non-members alike
>>>> have
>>>> been given insight into just how POCA is currently being run. How the
>>>> PPM will respond will also be enlightening!
>>>> Sad, quite sad.
>>>> Here is an idea mentioned to me recently, perhaps if POCA wants to
>>>> respond to statements, they could do so, but on their own website, and
>>>> from their elected Public Relations guy (only), isn't that what the PR
>>>> job entails?
>>>> (Sorry to poke at Ed Mendez the current POCA PR guy, as he must have a
>>>> REALLY tough job, being elected to be the official POCA voice, but
>>>> having less-than-accurate statements made by the current POCA
>>>> president
>>>> as IF he is the sole POCA voice.)
>>>> What a mess for the PR guy to be stuck with...
>>>> Chuck
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
>>>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>>> [2]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>> [3]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
>>>> use the links above.
>>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
>>>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
>>>> list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
>>>> or approve the archiving of list messages.
>>>>
>>>> References
>>>>
>>>> 1. mailto:detomasoregistry at gmail.com
>>>> 2. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>> 3. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
>>>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>>
>>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
>>>> use the links above.
>>>>
>>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
>>>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list.
>>>> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or
>>>> approve the archiving of list messages.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
>>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>
>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use
>>> the links above.
>>>
>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
>>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list.
>>> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or
>>> approve the archiving of list messages.
>>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 30
> Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2016 19:04:23 -0400
> From: Will Kooiman <will.kooiman at gmail.com>
> To: Ed Mendez <edducati at mac.com>
> Cc: DeTomaso List <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>, Ken Green
> <kenn_green at yahoo.com>, The DeTomaso Registry Guy
> <detomasoregistry at gmail.com>, Dave <dave at damardirect.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum
> Message-ID: <D37E1C6F.1540C5%will.kooiman at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> That seems fair enough.
>
> --
> Will
>
>
>
>
>
> On 6/8/16 7:02 PM, "Ed Mendez" <edducati at mac.com> wrote:
>
>> It's two years of operating reserve. As explained by Bob Reid.
>>
>> Ed
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus
>>
>>> On 9/06/2016, at 11:00, Will Kooiman <will.kooiman at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> The Porsche club has over 100,000 members.
>>>
>>> The Ferrari club has over 6,000.
>>>
>>> It isn't exactly an apples-to-apples comparison.
>>>
>>> You need to consider what the reserves might be used for. Personally, I
>>> think $100,00 sounds about right, but I would just be guessing. I'd
>>> have
>>> to see a risk assessment to make an educated guess on an acceptable cash
>>> reserve.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Will
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 6/8/16 6:13 PM, "Ed Mendez" <edducati at mac.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The Ferrari and Porsche clubs have over $1,000,000 in reserves. Their
>>>> annual reports are available online. SCCA has more than that last time
>>>> I
>>>> checked.
>>>>
>>>> Ed
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus
>>>>
>>>>> On 9/06/2016, at 05:51, Ken Green via DeTomaso
>>>>> <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> You mean do something before someone burns though the cash reserve
>>>>> playing with their ideas of what a club should be. I heard the POCA
>>>>> cash reserve is over $100,000. I don't know anything about the
>>>>> typical
>>>>> size of cash reserves for car clubs, but that seems like a lot?
>>>>> Ken
>>>>> __________________________________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>> From: Dave <dave at damardirect.com>
>>>>> To: The DeTomaso Registry Guy <detomasoregistry at gmail.com>
>>>>> Cc: DeTomaso List <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 10:18 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum
>>>>> Thank you Chuck for letting me know what has transpired within the
>>>>> organization. Thank you Kurt for the resurrection.
>>>>> It is interesting that the new POCA website forum is far behind this
>>>>> forum as far as popularity. It is also worth noting that technology,
>>>>> the "better", new format of the POCA, is suffering a lack of
>>>>> attendance
>>>>> or participation, compared to this site. The phrase "build it & they
>>>>> will come running" certainly does not sound like it is happening. So
>>>>> why is the old guard allowing this to happen? It seems so flagrant. I
>>>>> think I read a sentiment that in essence said, if you don't like the
>>>>> new structure, you are not needed. This is a car group, how do you
>>>>> censor or better, why would you threaten anyone who disagrees with
>>>>> expulsion?
>>>>> Seems there is the dominate group forcing the subordinate group to
>>>>> leave, the very definition of expulsion.
>>>>> I agree Chuck, so very sad. I would think change is needed sooner
>>>>> than
>>>>> later.
>>>>> Dave
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: The DeTomaso Registry Guy
>>>>> [mailto:[1]detomasoregistry at gmail.com]
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 2:27 PM
>>>>> To: Dave
>>>>> Cc: DeTomaso List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum
>>>>> Can someone enlighten me, please?
>>>>> I am/was under the impression this email list or forum was rescued
>>>>> from
>>>>> being dissolved by Kurt. (thank you Kurt) I was also under the
>>>>> impression this site was not part of or controlled by POCA..
>>>>> Is this true?
>>>>> Thanks
>>>>> IndyDave
>>>>> Dave,
>>>>> You missed someone's good explanation of the list history. It was
>>>>> started long ago, and when it was time for the guy to move on, he
>>>>> allowed POCA to 'manage' it under certain conditions.
>>>>> Then recently MS decided it should be killed, favoring the POCA
>>>>> Board-like forum.
>>>>> Kurt Byrnes (sp ?) took responsibility and restarted it.
>>>>> Now, the list is 'freed from POCA'... THANKS Kurt!
>>>>> To use the POCA forum requires membership ($75 annually), it is
>>>>> censored for anti-POCA content, is no better than the GREAT (and
>>>>> free)
>>>>> PI Forum, actually much LESS than the PI Forum, and thus is not
>>>>> really
>>>>> used.
>>>>> And when newly-freed spirits discuss things 'here' some POCA people
>>>>> feel compelled to answer.
>>>>> Perhaps the POCA propaganda machine should re-evaluate their
>>>>> communications method.
>>>>> Or maybe Dave, you are adding your commentary too subtly for me (big
>>>>> grin).
>>>>> (Read between the lines ?!? What lines ?!? GRIN)
>>>>> Now...
>>>>> What caught my attention was a statement was made by the
>>>>> POCA-propaganda machine (PPM) regarding evaluation of alternate
>>>>> printers.
>>>>> How this was presented did seem reasonable (at first!). Yet Judy
>>>>> DeRyke
>>>>> (and/or others) commented on how the decision was actually made.
>>>>> This
>>>>> was refuted by the PPM. So someone felt it necessary to post just how
>>>>> POCA makes its decisions (well how Michael Shortt makes decisions for
>>>>> ALL POCA members) using an actual e-mail message as the
>>>>> fact/source/evidence. What better way to form an opinion than with
>>>>> facts, right?
>>>>> The posting of the facts was made by a non-POCA officer.
>>>>> He was then threatened with censure and being kicked out of the club
>>>>> for posting the evidence. WOW !
>>>>> First, I do not believe the person posting the facts can or should be
>>>>> punished. He did not sign a statement or agree to ANY terms that he
>>>>> is
>>>>> in violation of. Challenging a lie is the right thing to do. If Mr.
>>>>> Shortt wants to try to punish anyone, it should be himself for not
>>>>> conveying the truth in the first place.
>>>>> While I am not passing judgment on any one suggestion for improvement
>>>>> of POCA, I do object to HOW things are done, and HOW people are being
>>>>> treated.
>>>>> More specifically how people who are not in full agreement with the
>>>>> current POCA president are being treated. Let everyone focus on that
>>>>>> one< issue. Correct that problem first, otherwise it will taint any
>>>>> and all (otherwise possibly good) suggestions for change within POCA.
>>>>> With the leak of this document, POCA members and non-members alike
>>>>> have
>>>>> been given insight into just how POCA is currently being run. How
>>>>> the
>>>>> PPM will respond will also be enlightening!
>>>>> Sad, quite sad.
>>>>> Here is an idea mentioned to me recently, perhaps if POCA wants to
>>>>> respond to statements, they could do so, but on their own website,
>>>>> and
>>>>> from their elected Public Relations guy (only), isn't that what the
>>>>> PR
>>>>> job entails?
>>>>> (Sorry to poke at Ed Mendez the current POCA PR guy, as he must have
>>>>> a
>>>>> REALLY tough job, being elected to be the official POCA voice, but
>>>>> having less-than-accurate statements made by the current POCA
>>>>> president
>>>>> as IF he is the sole POCA voice.)
>>>>> What a mess for the PR guy to be stuck with...
>>>>> Chuck
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
>>>>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>>>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>>>> [2]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>>> [3]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
>>>>> use the links above.
>>>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
>>>>> any
>>>>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
>>>>> list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
>>>>> archive
>>>>> or approve the archiving of list messages.
>>>>>
>>>>> References
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. mailto:detomasoregistry at gmail.com
>>>>> 2. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>>> 3. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
>>>>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>>>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>>>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>>>
>>>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
>>>>> use the links above.
>>>>>
>>>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
>>>>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
>>>>> list.
>>>>> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or
>>>>> approve the archiving of list messages.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
>>>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>>
>>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
>>>> use
>>>> the links above.
>>>>
>>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
>>>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
>>>> list.
>>>> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or
>>>> approve the archiving of list messages.
>>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 31
> Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 16:20:21 -0700
> From: "Nolan" <nolan at mortarsprayer.com>
> To: <DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Yellow Goose for sale
> Message-ID: <009e01d1c1dc$544e5280$fceaf780$@com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Just the messenger:
>
> www.ebay.com/itm/Other-Makes-Mangusta-Base-Convertible-2-Door-/122001775783
>
>
>
> Nolan
>
>
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> Just the messenger:
>
> [1]www.ebay.com/itm/Other-Makes-Mangusta-Base-Convertible-2-Door-/12200
> 1775783
>
>
> Nolan
>
> References
>
> 1. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Other-Makes-Mangusta-Base-Convertible-2-Door-/122001775783
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 32
> Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 19:23:39 -0400
> From: Pantdino <pantdino at aol.com>
> To: edducati at mac.com, DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] New POCA video
> Message-ID: <15532541665-43e2-bcdc at webprd-m92.mail.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>
> Looks good!
>
> Jim
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ed Mendez <edducati at mac.com>
> To: DeTomaso <DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Sent: Wed, Jun 8, 2016 3:11 pm
> Subject: [DeTomaso] New POCA video
>
> [1]https://vimeo.com/169922457
> Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus
>
>
> References
>
> 1. https://vimeo.com/169922457
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
> -------------- next part --------------
> Looks good!
>
>
>
> Jim
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ed Mendez <edducati at mac.com>
> To: DeTomaso <DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Sent: Wed, Jun 8, 2016 3:11 pm
> Subject: [DeTomaso] New POCA video
> [1][1]https://vimeo.com/169922457
> Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus
> References
> 1. [2]https://vimeo.com/169922457
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [3]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> [4]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> use the links above.
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
> list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
> or approve the archiving of list messages.
>
> References
>
> 1. https://vimeo.com/169922457
> 2. https://vimeo.com/169922457
> 3. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 4. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 33
> Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 18:35:09 -0500
> From: "Douglas Kelm" <dakelm at qwest.net>
> To: "'Stephen'" <steve at snclocks.com>, 'Thomas T?rnblom'
> <tipo874 at gmail.com>, <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA
> Message-ID: <018501d1c1de$65e2adf0$31a809d0$@net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> An oft quoted proverb goes: "A man is known by the company he keeps". In the
> car community, this might be revised to "A man is known by the car he
> drives". More specifically, in Pantera land, a further revision could be: "A
> man is known by the modifications he makes to his Pantera". In MS's case,
> ego trumps taste in his attempt to imitate the interior of a car he probably
> wishes he could afford (see attached pictures). In his defense, at least he
> didn't plaster the fenders with decals of a black horse rampant on a field
> of yellow shield!
>
> Doug
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf
> Of Stephen
> Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 8:52 AM
> To: 'Thomas T?rnblom'; detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA
>
> I believe that Thomas gets to the heart of the issue with the current POCA
> leader. There have been a number of times that MS has responded to posts I
> put out on there on the previous forum in a way that made me wonder why I
> bothered to post at all. It took me a while to distinguish between the
> several Mikes that posted on the previous forum - it was the short one that
> I figured out first - and I quit reading his responses. Especially when I
> realized that he really doesn't know it all, and that his technical guidance
> was flawed as often as it was correct.
>
> I know that the short is doing his best to put together his idea of a better
> POCA site. And I know it will offer a lot. No doubt. NTL, his amazing
> ability to piss folks off with his truly marginal interpersonal skills is
> well known, and totally inappropriate for a person in his position.
>
> POCA is not this forum - and, well, vice versa. 3 years ago, when my wife
> and I bought 5332, I likely would have put up with the shorts crap to get
> what we needed - as I did in the past. Today - well, 5332 is a dream to
> drive, and I have this forum. Tell me again what POCA does for me - other
> than to remind me that some folk make terrible leaders?
>
> Stephen Nelson
>
> -------------- next part --------------
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> Desc: not available
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> -------------- next part --------------
> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
> Name: Seats - Ferrari Daytona.jpg
> Type: image/jpeg
> Size: 128150 bytes
> Desc: not available
> URL: <http://server.detomasolist.com/pipermail/detomaso/attachments/20160608/bc6a9a8c/attachment-0003.jpg>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 34
> Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 16:51:56 -0700
> From: The DeTomaso Registry Guy <detomasoregistry at gmail.com>
> To: "'Nolan'" <nolan at mortarsprayer.com>,
> <DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Yellow Goose for sale
> Message-ID: <64DB9322C80948529C09AC35751283B0 at BOSS3A>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Yellow Goose for sale
>
> Just the messenger:
>
> www.ebay.com/itm/Other-Makes-Mangusta-Base-Convertible-2-Door-/122001775783
>
> Nolan
>
>
>
> Hello Nolan (of the North?)
>
> Thanks for posting...
>
> The DeTomaso registry actually includes the Qvale Mangusta ...
>
> while I thought there was only a handful of these cars documented,
>
> I just checked and found 32 cars have been added!
>
> and history on this car can be found either by searching by model,
> or directly using "M000254" as the "short" VIN.
>
> The last update was 2012 I believe.
>
> Chuck
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 35
> Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 17:00:43 -0700
> From: Jack Donahue <demongusta at gmail.com>
> To: Will Kooiman <will.kooiman at gmail.com>
> Cc: "detomaso at server.detomasolist.com"
> <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum
> Message-ID: <600A4FC0-268C-4F95-9C94-BC44944A771D at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> I have the dubious distinction of being the longest standing member in the Porsche Club of America, and the sole Charter member - 61 years - whew - that went fast. I must say the Pantera group is a lot more personable than the Porsche group.
> #4348
>
>> On Jun 8, 2016, at 4:00 PM, Will Kooiman <will.kooiman at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> The Porsche club has over 100,000 members.
>>
>> The Ferrari club has over 6,000.
>>
>> It isn't exactly an apples-to-apples comparison.
>>
>> You need to consider what the reserves might be used for. Personally, I
>> think $100,00 sounds about right, but I would just be guessing. I'd have
>> to see a risk assessment to make an educated guess on an acceptable cash
>> reserve.
>>
>> --
>> Will
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 6/8/16 6:13 PM, "Ed Mendez" <edducati at mac.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The Ferrari and Porsche clubs have over $1,000,000 in reserves. Their
>>> annual reports are available online. SCCA has more than that last time I
>>> checked.
>>>
>>> Ed
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus
>>>
>>>> On 9/06/2016, at 05:51, Ken Green via DeTomaso
>>>> <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> You mean do something before someone burns though the cash reserve
>>>> playing with their ideas of what a club should be. I heard the POCA
>>>> cash reserve is over $100,000. I don't know anything about the
>>>> typical
>>>> size of cash reserves for car clubs, but that seems like a lot?
>>>> Ken
>>>> __________________________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> From: Dave <dave at damardirect.com>
>>>> To: The DeTomaso Registry Guy <detomasoregistry at gmail.com>
>>>> Cc: DeTomaso List <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 10:18 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum
>>>> Thank you Chuck for letting me know what has transpired within the
>>>> organization. Thank you Kurt for the resurrection.
>>>> It is interesting that the new POCA website forum is far behind this
>>>> forum as far as popularity. It is also worth noting that technology,
>>>> the "better", new format of the POCA, is suffering a lack of
>>>> attendance
>>>> or participation, compared to this site. The phrase "build it & they
>>>> will come running" certainly does not sound like it is happening. So
>>>> why is the old guard allowing this to happen? It seems so flagrant. I
>>>> think I read a sentiment that in essence said, if you don't like the
>>>> new structure, you are not needed. This is a car group, how do you
>>>> censor or better, why would you threaten anyone who disagrees with
>>>> expulsion?
>>>> Seems there is the dominate group forcing the subordinate group to
>>>> leave, the very definition of expulsion.
>>>> I agree Chuck, so very sad. I would think change is needed sooner than
>>>> later.
>>>> Dave
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: The DeTomaso Registry Guy [mailto:[1]detomasoregistry at gmail.com]
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 2:27 PM
>>>> To: Dave
>>>> Cc: DeTomaso List
>>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum
>>>> Can someone enlighten me, please?
>>>> I am/was under the impression this email list or forum was rescued
>>>> from
>>>> being dissolved by Kurt. (thank you Kurt) I was also under the
>>>> impression this site was not part of or controlled by POCA..
>>>> Is this true?
>>>> Thanks
>>>> IndyDave
>>>> Dave,
>>>> You missed someone's good explanation of the list history. It was
>>>> started long ago, and when it was time for the guy to move on, he
>>>> allowed POCA to 'manage' it under certain conditions.
>>>> Then recently MS decided it should be killed, favoring the POCA
>>>> Board-like forum.
>>>> Kurt Byrnes (sp ?) took responsibility and restarted it.
>>>> Now, the list is 'freed from POCA'... THANKS Kurt!
>>>> To use the POCA forum requires membership ($75 annually), it is
>>>> censored for anti-POCA content, is no better than the GREAT (and free)
>>>> PI Forum, actually much LESS than the PI Forum, and thus is not really
>>>> used.
>>>> And when newly-freed spirits discuss things 'here' some POCA people
>>>> feel compelled to answer.
>>>> Perhaps the POCA propaganda machine should re-evaluate their
>>>> communications method.
>>>> Or maybe Dave, you are adding your commentary too subtly for me (big
>>>> grin).
>>>> (Read between the lines ?!? What lines ?!? GRIN)
>>>> Now...
>>>> What caught my attention was a statement was made by the
>>>> POCA-propaganda machine (PPM) regarding evaluation of alternate
>>>> printers.
>>>> How this was presented did seem reasonable (at first!). Yet Judy
>>>> DeRyke
>>>> (and/or others) commented on how the decision was actually made. This
>>>> was refuted by the PPM. So someone felt it necessary to post just how
>>>> POCA makes its decisions (well how Michael Shortt makes decisions for
>>>> ALL POCA members) using an actual e-mail message as the
>>>> fact/source/evidence. What better way to form an opinion than with
>>>> facts, right?
>>>> The posting of the facts was made by a non-POCA officer.
>>>> He was then threatened with censure and being kicked out of the club
>>>> for posting the evidence. WOW !
>>>> First, I do not believe the person posting the facts can or should be
>>>> punished. He did not sign a statement or agree to ANY terms that he
>>>> is
>>>> in violation of. Challenging a lie is the right thing to do. If Mr.
>>>> Shortt wants to try to punish anyone, it should be himself for not
>>>> conveying the truth in the first place.
>>>> While I am not passing judgment on any one suggestion for improvement
>>>> of POCA, I do object to HOW things are done, and HOW people are being
>>>> treated.
>>>> More specifically how people who are not in full agreement with the
>>>> current POCA president are being treated. Let everyone focus on that
>>>>> one< issue. Correct that problem first, otherwise it will taint any
>>>> and all (otherwise possibly good) suggestions for change within POCA.
>>>> With the leak of this document, POCA members and non-members alike
>>>> have
>>>> been given insight into just how POCA is currently being run. How the
>>>> PPM will respond will also be enlightening!
>>>> Sad, quite sad.
>>>> Here is an idea mentioned to me recently, perhaps if POCA wants to
>>>> respond to statements, they could do so, but on their own website, and
>>>> from their elected Public Relations guy (only), isn't that what the PR
>>>> job entails?
>>>> (Sorry to poke at Ed Mendez the current POCA PR guy, as he must have a
>>>> REALLY tough job, being elected to be the official POCA voice, but
>>>> having less-than-accurate statements made by the current POCA
>>>> president
>>>> as IF he is the sole POCA voice.)
>>>> What a mess for the PR guy to be stuck with...
>>>> Chuck
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
>>>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>>> [2]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>> [3]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
>>>> use the links above.
>>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
>>>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
>>>> list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
>>>> or approve the archiving of list messages.
>>>>
>>>> References
>>>>
>>>> 1. mailto:detomasoregistry at gmail.com
>>>> 2. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>> 3. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
>>>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>>
>>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
>>>> use the links above.
>>>>
>>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
>>>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list.
>>>> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or
>>>> approve the archiving of list messages.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
>>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>
>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use
>>> the links above.
>>>
>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
>>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list.
>>> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or
>>> approve the archiving of list messages.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>
>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>>
>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 36
> Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 19:02:34 -0500
> From: "Konrad Szwab" <kszwab at gmail.com>
> To: <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum
> Message-ID: <04c901d1c1e2$3a2ecb90$ae8c62b0$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Wow ! :) Congratulations !
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf
> Of Jack Donahue
> Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 7:01 PM
> To: Will Kooiman <will.kooiman at gmail.com>
> Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum
>
> I have the dubious distinction of being the longest standing member in the
> Porsche Club of America, and the sole Charter member - 61 years - whew -
> that went fast. I must say the Pantera group is a lot more personable than
> the Porsche group.
> #4348
>
>> On Jun 8, 2016, at 4:00 PM, Will Kooiman <will.kooiman at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> The Porsche club has over 100,000 members.
>>
>> The Ferrari club has over 6,000.
>>
>> It isn't exactly an apples-to-apples comparison.
>>
>> You need to consider what the reserves might be used for. Personally,
>> I think $100,00 sounds about right, but I would just be guessing. I'd
>> have to see a risk assessment to make an educated guess on an
>> acceptable cash reserve.
>>
>> --
>> Will
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 6/8/16 6:13 PM, "Ed Mendez" <edducati at mac.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The Ferrari and Porsche clubs have over $1,000,000 in reserves. Their
>>> annual reports are available online. SCCA has more than that last
>>> time I checked.
>>>
>>> Ed
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus
>>>
>>>> On 9/06/2016, at 05:51, Ken Green via DeTomaso
>>>> <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> You mean do something before someone burns though the cash reserve
>>>> playing with their ideas of what a club should be. I heard the POCA
>>>> cash reserve is over $100,000. I don't know anything about the
>>>> typical size of cash reserves for car clubs, but that seems like a
>>>> lot?
>>>> Ken
>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> From: Dave <dave at damardirect.com>
>>>> To: The DeTomaso Registry Guy <detomasoregistry at gmail.com>
>>>> Cc: DeTomaso List <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 10:18 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum Thank you
>>>> Chuck for letting me know what has transpired within the
>>>> organization. Thank you Kurt for the resurrection.
>>>> It is interesting that the new POCA website forum is far behind
>>>> this forum as far as popularity. It is also worth noting that
>>>> technology, the "better", new format of the POCA, is suffering a
>>>> lack of attendance or participation, compared to this site. The
>>>> phrase "build it & they will come running" certainly does not sound
>>>> like it is happening. So why is the old guard allowing this to
>>>> happen? It seems so flagrant. I think I read a sentiment that in
>>>> essence said, if you don't like the new structure, you are not
>>>> needed. This is a car group, how do you censor or better, why would
>>>> you threaten anyone who disagrees with expulsion?
>>>> Seems there is the dominate group forcing the subordinate group to
>>>> leave, the very definition of expulsion.
>>>> I agree Chuck, so very sad. I would think change is needed sooner
>>>> than later.
>>>> Dave
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: The DeTomaso Registry Guy
>>>> [mailto:[1]detomasoregistry at gmail.com]
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 2:27 PM
>>>> To: Dave
>>>> Cc: DeTomaso List
>>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum Can someone
>>>> enlighten me, please?
>>>> I am/was under the impression this email list or forum was rescued
>>>> from being dissolved by Kurt. (thank you Kurt) I was also under the
>>>> impression this site was not part of or controlled by POCA..
>>>> Is this true?
>>>> Thanks
>>>> IndyDave
>>>> Dave,
>>>> You missed someone's good explanation of the list history. It was
>>>> started long ago, and when it was time for the guy to move on, he
>>>> allowed POCA to 'manage' it under certain conditions.
>>>> Then recently MS decided it should be killed, favoring the POCA
>>>> Board-like forum.
>>>> Kurt Byrnes (sp ?) took responsibility and restarted it.
>>>> Now, the list is 'freed from POCA'... THANKS Kurt!
>>>> To use the POCA forum requires membership ($75 annually), it is
>>>> censored for anti-POCA content, is no better than the GREAT (and
>>>> free) PI Forum, actually much LESS than the PI Forum, and thus is
>>>> not really used.
>>>> And when newly-freed spirits discuss things 'here' some POCA people
>>>> feel compelled to answer.
>>>> Perhaps the POCA propaganda machine should re-evaluate their
>>>> communications method.
>>>> Or maybe Dave, you are adding your commentary too subtly for me
>>>> (big grin).
>>>> (Read between the lines ?!? What lines ?!? GRIN) Now...
>>>> What caught my attention was a statement was made by the
>>>> POCA-propaganda machine (PPM) regarding evaluation of alternate
>>>> printers.
>>>> How this was presented did seem reasonable (at first!). Yet Judy
>>>> DeRyke (and/or others) commented on how the decision was actually
>>>> made. This was refuted by the PPM. So someone felt it necessary to
>>>> post just how POCA makes its decisions (well how Michael Shortt
>>>> makes decisions for ALL POCA members) using an actual e-mail
>>>> message as the fact/source/evidence. What better way to form an
>>>> opinion than with facts, right?
>>>> The posting of the facts was made by a non-POCA officer.
>>>> He was then threatened with censure and being kicked out of the
>>>> club for posting the evidence. WOW !
>>>> First, I do not believe the person posting the facts can or should
>>>> be punished. He did not sign a statement or agree to ANY terms
>>>> that he is in violation of. Challenging a lie is the right thing to
>>>> do. If Mr.
>>>> Shortt wants to try to punish anyone, it should be himself for not
>>>> conveying the truth in the first place.
>>>> While I am not passing judgment on any one suggestion for
>>>> improvement of POCA, I do object to HOW things are done, and HOW
>>>> people are being treated.
>>>> More specifically how people who are not in full agreement with the
>>>> current POCA president are being treated. Let everyone focus on
>>>> that
>>>>> one< issue. Correct that problem first, otherwise it will taint
>>>>> any
>>>> and all (otherwise possibly good) suggestions for change within POCA.
>>>> With the leak of this document, POCA members and non-members alike
>>>> have been given insight into just how POCA is currently being run.
>>>> How the PPM will respond will also be enlightening!
>>>> Sad, quite sad.
>>>> Here is an idea mentioned to me recently, perhaps if POCA wants to
>>>> respond to statements, they could do so, but on their own website,
>>>> and from their elected Public Relations guy (only), isn't that what
>>>> the PR job entails?
>>>> (Sorry to poke at Ed Mendez the current POCA PR guy, as he must
>>>> have a REALLY tough job, being elected to be the official POCA
>>>> voice, but having less-than-accurate statements made by the current
>>>> POCA president as IF he is the sole POCA voice.) What a mess for
>>>> the PR guy to be stuck with...
>>>> Chuck
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not
>>>> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list
>>>> [2]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>> [3]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
>>>> etc.) use the links above.
>>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
>>>> any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
>>>> the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
>>>> archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
>>>>
>>>> References
>>>>
>>>> 1. mailto:detomasoregistry at gmail.com 2.
>>>> mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>> 3. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not
>>>> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list
>>>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>>
>>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
>>>> etc.) use the links above.
>>>>
>>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
>>>> any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
> list.
>>>> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or
>>>> approve the archiving of list messages.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not
>>> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list
>>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>
>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
>>> use the links above.
>>>
>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
>>> any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
> list.
>>> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or
>>> approve the archiving of list messages.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed
>> 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>
>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use
> the links above.
>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list.
> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve
> the archiving of list messages.
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
> Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use
> the links above.
>
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list.
> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve
> the archiving of list messages.
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2016.0.7639 / Virus Database: 4598/12375 - Release Date: 06/06/16
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 37
> Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 19:03:37 -0500
> From: "Charles Engles" <cengles at cox.net>
> To: "'Jack Donahue'" <demongusta at gmail.com>, "'Will Kooiman'"
> <will.kooiman at gmail.com>
> Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum
> Message-ID: <008c01d1c1e2$5f7d6c80$1e784580$@net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Dear Jack,
>
>
> That is fascinating. I would like to thank you for confirming my
> preference for the Pantera group!
>
>
> Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf
> Of Jack Donahue
> Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 7:01 PM
> To: Will Kooiman
> Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum
>
> I have the dubious distinction of being the longest standing member in the
> Porsche Club of America, and the sole Charter member - 61 years - whew -
> that went fast. I must say the Pantera group is a lot more personable than
> the Porsche group.
> #4348
>
>> On Jun 8, 2016, at 4:00 PM, Will Kooiman <will.kooiman at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> The Porsche club has over 100,000 members.
>>
>> The Ferrari club has over 6,000.
>>
>> It isn't exactly an apples-to-apples comparison.
>>
>> You need to consider what the reserves might be used for. Personally,
>> I think $100,00 sounds about right, but I would just be guessing. I'd
>> have to see a risk assessment to make an educated guess on an
>> acceptable cash reserve.
>>
>> --
>> Will
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 6/8/16 6:13 PM, "Ed Mendez" <edducati at mac.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The Ferrari and Porsche clubs have over $1,000,000 in reserves. Their
>>> annual reports are available online. SCCA has more than that last
>>> time I checked.
>>>
>>> Ed
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus
>>>
>>>> On 9/06/2016, at 05:51, Ken Green via DeTomaso
>>>> <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> You mean do something before someone burns though the cash reserve
>>>> playing with their ideas of what a club should be. I heard the POCA
>>>> cash reserve is over $100,000. I don't know anything about the
>>>> typical size of cash reserves for car clubs, but that seems like a
>>>> lot?
>>>> Ken
>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> From: Dave <dave at damardirect.com>
>>>> To: The DeTomaso Registry Guy <detomasoregistry at gmail.com>
>>>> Cc: DeTomaso List <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 10:18 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum Thank you
>>>> Chuck for letting me know what has transpired within the
>>>> organization. Thank you Kurt for the resurrection.
>>>> It is interesting that the new POCA website forum is far behind
>>>> this forum as far as popularity. It is also worth noting that
>>>> technology, the "better", new format of the POCA, is suffering a
>>>> lack of attendance or participation, compared to this site. The
>>>> phrase "build it & they will come running" certainly does not sound
>>>> like it is happening. So why is the old guard allowing this to
>>>> happen? It seems so flagrant. I think I read a sentiment that in
>>>> essence said, if you don't like the new structure, you are not
>>>> needed. This is a car group, how do you censor or better, why would
>>>> you threaten anyone who disagrees with expulsion?
>>>> Seems there is the dominate group forcing the subordinate group to
>>>> leave, the very definition of expulsion.
>>>> I agree Chuck, so very sad. I would think change is needed sooner
>>>> than later.
>>>> Dave
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: The DeTomaso Registry Guy
>>>> [mailto:[1]detomasoregistry at gmail.com]
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 2:27 PM
>>>> To: Dave
>>>> Cc: DeTomaso List
>>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum Can someone
>>>> enlighten me, please?
>>>> I am/was under the impression this email list or forum was rescued
>>>> from being dissolved by Kurt. (thank you Kurt) I was also under the
>>>> impression this site was not part of or controlled by POCA..
>>>> Is this true?
>>>> Thanks
>>>> IndyDave
>>>> Dave,
>>>> You missed someone's good explanation of the list history. It was
>>>> started long ago, and when it was time for the guy to move on, he
>>>> allowed POCA to 'manage' it under certain conditions.
>>>> Then recently MS decided it should be killed, favoring the POCA
>>>> Board-like forum.
>>>> Kurt Byrnes (sp ?) took responsibility and restarted it.
>>>> Now, the list is 'freed from POCA'... THANKS Kurt!
>>>> To use the POCA forum requires membership ($75 annually), it is
>>>> censored for anti-POCA content, is no better than the GREAT (and
>>>> free) PI Forum, actually much LESS than the PI Forum, and thus is
>>>> not really used.
>>>> And when newly-freed spirits discuss things 'here' some POCA people
>>>> feel compelled to answer.
>>>> Perhaps the POCA propaganda machine should re-evaluate their
>>>> communications method.
>>>> Or maybe Dave, you are adding your commentary too subtly for me
>>>> (big grin).
>>>> (Read between the lines ?!? What lines ?!? GRIN) Now...
>>>> What caught my attention was a statement was made by the
>>>> POCA-propaganda machine (PPM) regarding evaluation of alternate
>>>> printers.
>>>> How this was presented did seem reasonable (at first!). Yet Judy
>>>> DeRyke (and/or others) commented on how the decision was actually
>>>> made. This was refuted by the PPM. So someone felt it necessary to
>>>> post just how POCA makes its decisions (well how Michael Shortt
>>>> makes decisions for ALL POCA members) using an actual e-mail
>>>> message as the fact/source/evidence. What better way to form an
>>>> opinion than with facts, right?
>>>> The posting of the facts was made by a non-POCA officer.
>>>> He was then threatened with censure and being kicked out of the
>>>> club for posting the evidence. WOW !
>>>> First, I do not believe the person posting the facts can or should
>>>> be punished. He did not sign a statement or agree to ANY terms
>>>> that he is in violation of. Challenging a lie is the right thing to
>>>> do. If Mr.
>>>> Shortt wants to try to punish anyone, it should be himself for not
>>>> conveying the truth in the first place.
>>>> While I am not passing judgment on any one suggestion for
>>>> improvement of POCA, I do object to HOW things are done, and HOW
>>>> people are being treated.
>>>> More specifically how people who are not in full agreement with the
>>>> current POCA president are being treated. Let everyone focus on
>>>> that
>>>>> one< issue. Correct that problem first, otherwise it will taint
>>>>> any
>>>> and all (otherwise possibly good) suggestions for change within POCA.
>>>> With the leak of this document, POCA members and non-members alike
>>>> have been given insight into just how POCA is currently being run.
>>>> How the PPM will respond will also be enlightening!
>>>> Sad, quite sad.
>>>> Here is an idea mentioned to me recently, perhaps if POCA wants to
>>>> respond to statements, they could do so, but on their own website,
>>>> and from their elected Public Relations guy (only), isn't that what
>>>> the PR job entails?
>>>> (Sorry to poke at Ed Mendez the current POCA PR guy, as he must
>>>> have a REALLY tough job, being elected to be the official POCA
>>>> voice, but having less-than-accurate statements made by the current
>>>> POCA president as IF he is the sole POCA voice.) What a mess for
>>>> the PR guy to be stuck with...
>>>> Chuck
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not
>>>> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list
>>>> [2]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>> [3]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
>>>> etc.) use the links above.
>>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
>>>> any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
>>>> the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
>>>> archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
>>>>
>>>> References
>>>>
>>>> 1. mailto:detomasoregistry at gmail.com 2.
>>>> mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>> 3. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not
>>>> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list
>>>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>>
>>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
>>>> etc.) use the links above.
>>>>
>>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
>>>> any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
> list.
>>>> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or
>>>> approve the archiving of list messages.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not
>>> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list
>>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>
>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
>>> use the links above.
>>>
>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
>>> any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
> list.
>>> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or
>>> approve the archiving of list messages.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed
>> 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>
>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use
> the links above.
>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list.
> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve
> the archiving of list messages.
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
> Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use
> the links above.
>
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list.
> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve
> the archiving of list messages.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 38
> Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 17:41:13 -0700
> From: James coyne <tecnosound at hotmail.com>
> To: Jack Donahue <demongusta at gmail.com>, Will Kooiman
> <will.kooiman at gmail.com>
> Cc: "detomaso at server.detomasolist.com"
> <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum
> Message-ID: <COL131-W656E10182A835E9AA40DDFDF5F0 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Outstanding ! Congratulations !
>
>> From: demongusta at gmail.com
>> Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 17:00:43 -0700
>> To: will.kooiman at gmail.com
>> CC: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum
>>
>> I have the dubious distinction of being the longest standing member in the Porsche Club of America, and the sole Charter member - 61 years - whew - that went fast. I must say the Pantera group is a lot more personable than the Porsche group.
>> #4348
>>
>>> On Jun 8, 2016, at 4:00 PM, Will Kooiman <will.kooiman at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> The Porsche club has over 100,000 members.
>>>
>>> The Ferrari club has over 6,000.
>>>
>>> It isn't exactly an apples-to-apples comparison.
>>>
>>> You need to consider what the reserves might be used for. Personally, I
>>> think $100,00 sounds about right, but I would just be guessing. I'd have
>>> to see a risk assessment to make an educated guess on an acceptable cash
>>> reserve.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Will
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 6/8/16 6:13 PM, "Ed Mendez" <edducati at mac.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The Ferrari and Porsche clubs have over $1,000,000 in reserves. Their
>>>> annual reports are available online. SCCA has more than that last time I
>>>> checked.
>>>>
>>>> Ed
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus
>>>>
>>>>> On 9/06/2016, at 05:51, Ken Green via DeTomaso
>>>>> <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> You mean do something before someone burns though the cash reserve
>>>>> playing with their ideas of what a club should be. I heard the POCA
>>>>> cash reserve is over $100,000. I don't know anything about the
>>>>> typical
>>>>> size of cash reserves for car clubs, but that seems like a lot?
>>>>> Ken
>>>>> __________________________________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>> From: Dave <dave at damardirect.com>
>>>>> To: The DeTomaso Registry Guy <detomasoregistry at gmail.com>
>>>>> Cc: DeTomaso List <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 10:18 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum
>>>>> Thank you Chuck for letting me know what has transpired within the
>>>>> organization. Thank you Kurt for the resurrection.
>>>>> It is interesting that the new POCA website forum is far behind this
>>>>> forum as far as popularity. It is also worth noting that technology,
>>>>> the "better", new format of the POCA, is suffering a lack of
>>>>> attendance
>>>>> or participation, compared to this site. The phrase "build it & they
>>>>> will come running" certainly does not sound like it is happening. So
>>>>> why is the old guard allowing this to happen? It seems so flagrant. I
>>>>> think I read a sentiment that in essence said, if you don't like the
>>>>> new structure, you are not needed. This is a car group, how do you
>>>>> censor or better, why would you threaten anyone who disagrees with
>>>>> expulsion?
>>>>> Seems there is the dominate group forcing the subordinate group to
>>>>> leave, the very definition of expulsion.
>>>>> I agree Chuck, so very sad. I would think change is needed sooner than
>>>>> later.
>>>>> Dave
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: The DeTomaso Registry Guy [mailto:[1]detomasoregistry at gmail.com]
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 2:27 PM
>>>>> To: Dave
>>>>> Cc: DeTomaso List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum
>>>>> Can someone enlighten me, please?
>>>>> I am/was under the impression this email list or forum was rescued
>>>>> from
>>>>> being dissolved by Kurt. (thank you Kurt) I was also under the
>>>>> impression this site was not part of or controlled by POCA..
>>>>> Is this true?
>>>>> Thanks
>>>>> IndyDave
>>>>> Dave,
>>>>> You missed someone's good explanation of the list history. It was
>>>>> started long ago, and when it was time for the guy to move on, he
>>>>> allowed POCA to 'manage' it under certain conditions.
>>>>> Then recently MS decided it should be killed, favoring the POCA
>>>>> Board-like forum.
>>>>> Kurt Byrnes (sp ?) took responsibility and restarted it.
>>>>> Now, the list is 'freed from POCA'... THANKS Kurt!
>>>>> To use the POCA forum requires membership ($75 annually), it is
>>>>> censored for anti-POCA content, is no better than the GREAT (and free)
>>>>> PI Forum, actually much LESS than the PI Forum, and thus is not really
>>>>> used.
>>>>> And when newly-freed spirits discuss things 'here' some POCA people
>>>>> feel compelled to answer.
>>>>> Perhaps the POCA propaganda machine should re-evaluate their
>>>>> communications method.
>>>>> Or maybe Dave, you are adding your commentary too subtly for me (big
>>>>> grin).
>>>>> (Read between the lines ?!? What lines ?!? GRIN)
>>>>> Now...
>>>>> What caught my attention was a statement was made by the
>>>>> POCA-propaganda machine (PPM) regarding evaluation of alternate
>>>>> printers.
>>>>> How this was presented did seem reasonable (at first!). Yet Judy
>>>>> DeRyke
>>>>> (and/or others) commented on how the decision was actually made. This
>>>>> was refuted by the PPM. So someone felt it necessary to post just how
>>>>> POCA makes its decisions (well how Michael Shortt makes decisions for
>>>>> ALL POCA members) using an actual e-mail message as the
>>>>> fact/source/evidence. What better way to form an opinion than with
>>>>> facts, right?
>>>>> The posting of the facts was made by a non-POCA officer.
>>>>> He was then threatened with censure and being kicked out of the club
>>>>> for posting the evidence. WOW !
>>>>> First, I do not believe the person posting the facts can or should be
>>>>> punished. He did not sign a statement or agree to ANY terms that he
>>>>> is
>>>>> in violation of. Challenging a lie is the right thing to do. If Mr.
>>>>> Shortt wants to try to punish anyone, it should be himself for not
>>>>> conveying the truth in the first place.
>>>>> While I am not passing judgment on any one suggestion for improvement
>>>>> of POCA, I do object to HOW things are done, and HOW people are being
>>>>> treated.
>>>>> More specifically how people who are not in full agreement with the
>>>>> current POCA president are being treated. Let everyone focus on that
>>>>>> one< issue. Correct that problem first, otherwise it will taint any
>>>>> and all (otherwise possibly good) suggestions for change within POCA.
>>>>> With the leak of this document, POCA members and non-members alike
>>>>> have
>>>>> been given insight into just how POCA is currently being run. How the
>>>>> PPM will respond will also be enlightening!
>>>>> Sad, quite sad.
>>>>> Here is an idea mentioned to me recently, perhaps if POCA wants to
>>>>> respond to statements, they could do so, but on their own website, and
>>>>> from their elected Public Relations guy (only), isn't that what the PR
>>>>> job entails?
>>>>> (Sorry to poke at Ed Mendez the current POCA PR guy, as he must have a
>>>>> REALLY tough job, being elected to be the official POCA voice, but
>>>>> having less-than-accurate statements made by the current POCA
>>>>> president
>>>>> as IF he is the sole POCA voice.)
>>>>> What a mess for the PR guy to be stuck with...
>>>>> Chuck
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
>>>>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>>>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>>>> [2]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>>> [3]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
>>>>> use the links above.
>>>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
>>>>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
>>>>> list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
>>>>> or approve the archiving of list messages.
>>>>>
>>>>> References
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. mailto:detomasoregistry at gmail.com
>>>>> 2. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>>> 3. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
>>>>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>>>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>>>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>>>
>>>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
>>>>> use the links above.
>>>>>
>>>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
>>>>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list.
>>>>> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or
>>>>> approve the archiving of list messages.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
>>>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>>
>>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use
>>>> the links above.
>>>>
>>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
>>>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list.
>>>> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or
>>>> approve the archiving of list messages.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
>>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>
>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>>>
>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>
>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>>
>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> Outstanding ! Congratulations !
> > From: demongusta at gmail.com
> > Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 17:00:43 -0700
> > To: will.kooiman at gmail.com
> > CC: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum
> >
> > I have the dubious distinction of being the longest standing member
> in the Porsche Club of America, and the sole Charter member - 61 years
> - whew - that went fast. I must say the Pantera group is a lot more
> personable than the Porsche group.
> > #4348
> >
> > > On Jun 8, 2016, at 4:00 PM, Will Kooiman <will.kooiman at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > The Porsche club has over 100,000 members.
> > >
> > > The Ferrari club has over 6,000.
> > >
> > > It isn't exactly an apples-to-apples comparison.
> > >
> > > You need to consider what the reserves might be used for.
> Personally, I
> > > think $100,00 sounds about right, but I would just be guessing. I'd
> have
> > > to see a risk assessment to make an educated guess on an acceptable
> cash
> > > reserve.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Will
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 6/8/16 6:13 PM, "Ed Mendez" <edducati at mac.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> The Ferrari and Porsche clubs have over $1,000,000 in reserves.
> Their
> > >> annual reports are available online. SCCA has more than that last
> time I
> > >> checked.
> > >>
> > >> Ed
> > >>
> > >> Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus
> > >>
> > >>> On 9/06/2016, at 05:51, Ken Green via DeTomaso
> > >>> <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> You mean do something before someone burns though the cash
> reserve
> > >>> playing with their ideas of what a club should be. I heard the
> POCA
> > >>> cash reserve is over $100,000. I don't know anything about the
> > >>> typical
> > >>> size of cash reserves for car clubs, but that seems like a lot?
> > >>> Ken
> > >>>
> __________________________________________________________________
> > >>>
> > >>> From: Dave <dave at damardirect.com>
> > >>> To: The DeTomaso Registry Guy <detomasoregistry at gmail.com>
> > >>> Cc: DeTomaso List <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> > >>> Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 10:18 AM
> > >>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum
> > >>> Thank you Chuck for letting me know what has transpired within
> the
> > >>> organization. Thank you Kurt for the resurrection.
> > >>> It is interesting that the new POCA website forum is far behind
> this
> > >>> forum as far as popularity. It is also worth noting that
> technology,
> > >>> the "better", new format of the POCA, is suffering a lack of
> > >>> attendance
> > >>> or participation, compared to this site. The phrase "build it &
> they
> > >>> will come running" certainly does not sound like it is happening.
> So
> > >>> why is the old guard allowing this to happen? It seems so
> flagrant. I
> > >>> think I read a sentiment that in essence said, if you don't like
> the
> > >>> new structure, you are not needed. This is a car group, how do
> you
> > >>> censor or better, why would you threaten anyone who disagrees
> with
> > >>> expulsion?
> > >>> Seems there is the dominate group forcing the subordinate group
> to
> > >>> leave, the very definition of expulsion.
> > >>> I agree Chuck, so very sad. I would think change is needed sooner
> than
> > >>> later.
> > >>> Dave
> > >>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>> From: The DeTomaso Registry Guy
> [mailto:[1]detomasoregistry at gmail.com]
> > >>> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 2:27 PM
> > >>> To: Dave
> > >>> Cc: DeTomaso List
> > >>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum
> > >>> Can someone enlighten me, please?
> > >>> I am/was under the impression this email list or forum was
> rescued
> > >>> from
> > >>> being dissolved by Kurt. (thank you Kurt) I was also under the
> > >>> impression this site was not part of or controlled by POCA..
> > >>> Is this true?
> > >>> Thanks
> > >>> IndyDave
> > >>> Dave,
> > >>> You missed someone's good explanation of the list history. It was
> > >>> started long ago, and when it was time for the guy to move on, he
> > >>> allowed POCA to 'manage' it under certain conditions.
> > >>> Then recently MS decided it should be killed, favoring the POCA
> > >>> Board-like forum.
> > >>> Kurt Byrnes (sp ?) took responsibility and restarted it.
> > >>> Now, the list is 'freed from POCA'... THANKS Kurt!
> > >>> To use the POCA forum requires membership ($75 annually), it is
> > >>> censored for anti-POCA content, is no better than the GREAT (and
> free)
> > >>> PI Forum, actually much LESS than the PI Forum, and thus is not
> really
> > >>> used.
> > >>> And when newly-freed spirits discuss things 'here' some POCA
> people
> > >>> feel compelled to answer.
> > >>> Perhaps the POCA propaganda machine should re-evaluate their
> > >>> communications method.
> > >>> Or maybe Dave, you are adding your commentary too subtly for me
> (big
> > >>> grin).
> > >>> (Read between the lines ?!? What lines ?!? GRIN)
> > >>> Now...
> > >>> What caught my attention was a statement was made by the
> > >>> POCA-propaganda machine (PPM) regarding evaluation of alternate
> > >>> printers.
> > >>> How this was presented did seem reasonable (at first!). Yet Judy
> > >>> DeRyke
> > >>> (and/or others) commented on how the decision was actually made.
> This
> > >>> was refuted by the PPM. So someone felt it necessary to post just
> how
> > >>> POCA makes its decisions (well how Michael Shortt makes decisions
> for
> > >>> ALL POCA members) using an actual e-mail message as the
> > >>> fact/source/evidence. What better way to form an opinion than
> with
> > >>> facts, right?
> > >>> The posting of the facts was made by a non-POCA officer.
> > >>> He was then threatened with censure and being kicked out of the
> club
> > >>> for posting the evidence. WOW !
> > >>> First, I do not believe the person posting the facts can or
> should be
> > >>> punished. He did not sign a statement or agree to ANY terms that
> he
> > >>> is
> > >>> in violation of. Challenging a lie is the right thing to do. If
> Mr.
> > >>> Shortt wants to try to punish anyone, it should be himself for
> not
> > >>> conveying the truth in the first place.
> > >>> While I am not passing judgment on any one suggestion for
> improvement
> > >>> of POCA, I do object to HOW things are done, and HOW people are
> being
> > >>> treated.
> > >>> More specifically how people who are not in full agreement with
> the
> > >>> current POCA president are being treated. Let everyone focus on
> that
> > >>>> one< issue. Correct that problem first, otherwise it will taint
> any
> > >>> and all (otherwise possibly good) suggestions for change within
> POCA.
> > >>> With the leak of this document, POCA members and non-members
> alike
> > >>> have
> > >>> been given insight into just how POCA is currently being run. How
> the
> > >>> PPM will respond will also be enlightening!
> > >>> Sad, quite sad.
> > >>> Here is an idea mentioned to me recently, perhaps if POCA wants
> to
> > >>> respond to statements, they could do so, but on their own
> website, and
> > >>> from their elected Public Relations guy (only), isn't that what
> the PR
> > >>> job entails?
> > >>> (Sorry to poke at Ed Mendez the current POCA PR guy, as he must
> have a
> > >>> REALLY tough job, being elected to be the official POCA voice,
> but
> > >>> having less-than-accurate statements made by the current POCA
> > >>> president
> > >>> as IF he is the sole POCA voice.)
> > >>> What a mess for the PR guy to be stuck with...
> > >>> Chuck
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
> > >>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> > >>> DeTomaso mailing list
> > >>> [2]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > >>> [3]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > >>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
> etc.)
> > >>> use the links above.
> > >>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to
> forward any
> > >>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
> the
> > >>> list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
> archive
> > >>> or approve the archiving of list messages.
> > >>>
> > >>> References
> > >>>
> > >>> 1. mailto:detomasoregistry at gmail.com
> > >>> 2. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > >>> 3. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
> > >>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> > >>> DeTomaso mailing list
> > >>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > >>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > >>>
> > >>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
> etc.)
> > >>> use the links above.
> > >>>
> > >>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to
> forward any
> > >>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
> the list.
> > >>> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
> or
> > >>> approve the archiving of list messages.
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
> > >> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> > >> DeTomaso mailing list
> > >> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > >> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > >>
> > >> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
> etc.) use
> > >> the links above.
> > >>
> > >> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
> any
> > >> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
> list.
> > >> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
> or
> > >> approve the archiving of list messages.
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > >
> > >
> > > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
> > > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> > > DeTomaso mailing list
> > > DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > >
> > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
> etc.) use the links above.
> > >
> > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
> any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
> list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
> or approve the archiving of list messages.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
> > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
> > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >
> > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> use the links above.
> >
> > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
> any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
> list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
> or approve the archiving of list messages.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 39
> Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 17:56:14 -0700
> From: Larry Finch <fresnofinches at aol.com>
> To: Email List Address For Posting <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>,
> Larry Finch <fresnofinches at aol.com>
> Subject: [DeTomaso] 2511 and State Farm
> Message-ID: <9CB24CB4-0D55-4245-8F0F-E0C69FA2BBF1 at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> All,
>
> I am happy to share some good news. Something we could use more of these days.
>
> Today I was informed the estimate submitted by Denny Finn for the repairs to 2511 has been accepted by State Farm.
>
> This means I have avoided a total loss declaration for 2511 and repairs can begin in the very near future.
>
> Denny assures me that the repairs will be finished before the end of this year.
>
> I am one very happy guy tonight. :-)
>
> Larry
>
>
>
>
> Sent from me using a magic, handheld electronic gizmo.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 40
> Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2016 00:58:08 +0000
> From: L GRAY <tipo874a at msn.com>
> To: Larry Finch <fresnofinches at aol.com>
> Cc: Email List Address For Posting <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] 2511 and State Farm
> Message-ID:
> <BLUPR19MB016328226311B6E1547D54649D5F0 at BLUPR19MB0163.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Congratulations Larry !!!!
>
> Leslie A. Gray
>
>> On Jun 8, 2016, at 5:56 PM, Larry Finch via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
>>
>> All,
>>
>> I am happy to share some good news. Something we could use more of these days.
>>
>> Today I was informed the estimate submitted by Denny Finn for the repairs to 2511 has been accepted by State Farm.
>>
>> This means I have avoided a total loss declaration for 2511 and repairs can begin in the very near future.
>>
>> Denny assures me that the repairs will be finished before the end of this year.
>>
>> I am one very happy guy tonight. :-)
>>
>> Larry
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from me using a magic, handheld electronic gizmo.
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>
>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>>
>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 41
> Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 20:58:42 -0400
> From: Tom Shinrock <tmshinro at aol.com>
> To: fresnofinches at aol.com, detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] 2511 and State Farm
> Message-ID: <15532ab19d9-6d3-c7e0 at webprd-m28.mail.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Good news indeed! Did it really take this long to resolve? Seems you posted your accident pictures several months ago.
>
>
> Tom
> 5186
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Larry Finch via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> To: Email List Address For Posting <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>; Larry Finch <fresnofinches at aol.com>
> Sent: Wed, Jun 8, 2016 7:56 pm
> Subject: [DeTomaso] 2511 and State Farm
>
> All,
>
> I am happy to share some good news. Something we could use more of these days.
>
> Today I was informed the estimate submitted by Denny Finn for the repairs to 2511 has been accepted by State Farm.
>
> This means I have avoided a total loss declaration for 2511 and repairs can begin in the very near future.
>
> Denny assures me that the repairs will be finished before the end of this year.
>
> I am one very happy guy tonight. :-)
>
> Larry
>
>
>
>
> Sent from me using a magic, handheld electronic gizmo.
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> Good news indeed! Did it really take this long to resolve? Seems you
> posted your accident pictures several months ago.
>
> Tom
>
> 5186
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Larry Finch via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> To: Email List Address For Posting <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>;
> Larry Finch <fresnofinches at aol.com>
> Sent: Wed, Jun 8, 2016 7:56 pm
> Subject: [DeTomaso] 2511 and State Farm
> All,
> I am happy to share some good news. Something we could use more of
> these days.
> Today I was informed the estimate submitted by Denny Finn for the
> repairs to 2511 has been accepted by State Farm.
> This means I have avoided a total loss declaration for 2511 and repairs
> can begin in the very near future.
> Denny assures me that the repairs will be finished before the end of
> this year.
> I am one very happy guy tonight. :-)
> Larry
> Sent from me using a magic, handheld electronic gizmo.
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [1]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> [2]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> use the links above.
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
> list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
> or approve the archiving of list messages.
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 2. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 42
> Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 17:59:49 -0700
> From: Effie Richards <erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com>
> To: L GRAY <tipo874a at msn.com>
> Cc: Email List Address For Posting <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>,
> Larry Finch <fresnofinches at aol.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] 2511 and State Farm
> Message-ID: <45C5E1A5-FDA8-4779-A91C-EDDF0AD8F164 at zogob.sdcoxmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Excellent, thank you for sharing the good news!
>
> Sent from Effie's iPad
>
>> On Jun 8, 2016, at 5:58 PM, L GRAY <tipo874a at msn.com> wrote:
>>
>> Congratulations Larry !!!!
>>
>> Leslie A. Gray
>>
>>> On Jun 8, 2016, at 5:56 PM, Larry Finch via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> All,
>>>
>>> I am happy to share some good news. Something we could use more of these days.
>>>
>>> Today I was informed the estimate submitted by Denny Finn for the repairs to 2511 has been accepted by State Farm.
>>>
>>> This means I have avoided a total loss declaration for 2511 and repairs can begin in the very near future.
>>>
>>> Denny assures me that the repairs will be finished before the end of this year.
>>>
>>> I am one very happy guy tonight. :-)
>>>
>>> Larry
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from me using a magic, handheld electronic gizmo.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
>>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>
>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>>>
>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>
>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>>
>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 43
> Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 18:00:50 -0700
> From: Effie Richards <erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com>
> To: Jack Donahue <demongusta at gmail.com>
> Cc: "detomaso at server.detomasolist.com"
> <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum
> Message-ID: <206C4F53-FC6D-4E5F-AA4D-2830C8E2D7FE at zogob.sdcoxmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Congrats, indeed!
>
> Sent from Effie's iPad
>
>> On Jun 8, 2016, at 5:00 PM, Jack Donahue <demongusta at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I have the dubious distinction of being the longest standing member in the Porsche Club of America, and the sole Charter member - 61 years - whew - that went fast. I must say the Pantera group is a lot more personable than the Porsche group.
>> #4348
>>
>>> On Jun 8, 2016, at 4:00 PM, Will Kooiman <will.kooiman at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> The Porsche club has over 100,000 members.
>>>
>>> The Ferrari club has over 6,000.
>>>
>>> It isn't exactly an apples-to-apples comparison.
>>>
>>> You need to consider what the reserves might be used for. Personally, I
>>> think $100,00 sounds about right, but I would just be guessing. I'd have
>>> to see a risk assessment to make an educated guess on an acceptable cash
>>> reserve.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Will
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 6/8/16 6:13 PM, "Ed Mendez" <edducati at mac.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The Ferrari and Porsche clubs have over $1,000,000 in reserves. Their
>>>> annual reports are available online. SCCA has more than that last time I
>>>> checked.
>>>>
>>>> Ed
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus
>>>>
>>>>> On 9/06/2016, at 05:51, Ken Green via DeTomaso
>>>>> <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> You mean do something before someone burns though the cash reserve
>>>>> playing with their ideas of what a club should be. I heard the POCA
>>>>> cash reserve is over $100,000. I don't know anything about the
>>>>> typical
>>>>> size of cash reserves for car clubs, but that seems like a lot?
>>>>> Ken
>>>>> __________________________________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>> From: Dave <dave at damardirect.com>
>>>>> To: The DeTomaso Registry Guy <detomasoregistry at gmail.com>
>>>>> Cc: DeTomaso List <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 10:18 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum
>>>>> Thank you Chuck for letting me know what has transpired within the
>>>>> organization. Thank you Kurt for the resurrection.
>>>>> It is interesting that the new POCA website forum is far behind this
>>>>> forum as far as popularity. It is also worth noting that technology,
>>>>> the "better", new format of the POCA, is suffering a lack of
>>>>> attendance
>>>>> or participation, compared to this site. The phrase "build it & they
>>>>> will come running" certainly does not sound like it is happening. So
>>>>> why is the old guard allowing this to happen? It seems so flagrant. I
>>>>> think I read a sentiment that in essence said, if you don't like the
>>>>> new structure, you are not needed. This is a car group, how do you
>>>>> censor or better, why would you threaten anyone who disagrees with
>>>>> expulsion?
>>>>> Seems there is the dominate group forcing the subordinate group to
>>>>> leave, the very definition of expulsion.
>>>>> I agree Chuck, so very sad. I would think change is needed sooner than
>>>>> later.
>>>>> Dave
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: The DeTomaso Registry Guy [mailto:[1]detomasoregistry at gmail.com]
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 2:27 PM
>>>>> To: Dave
>>>>> Cc: DeTomaso List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum
>>>>> Can someone enlighten me, please?
>>>>> I am/was under the impression this email list or forum was rescued
>>>>> from
>>>>> being dissolved by Kurt. (thank you Kurt) I was also under the
>>>>> impression this site was not part of or controlled by POCA..
>>>>> Is this true?
>>>>> Thanks
>>>>> IndyDave
>>>>> Dave,
>>>>> You missed someone's good explanation of the list history. It was
>>>>> started long ago, and when it was time for the guy to move on, he
>>>>> allowed POCA to 'manage' it under certain conditions.
>>>>> Then recently MS decided it should be killed, favoring the POCA
>>>>> Board-like forum.
>>>>> Kurt Byrnes (sp ?) took responsibility and restarted it.
>>>>> Now, the list is 'freed from POCA'... THANKS Kurt!
>>>>> To use the POCA forum requires membership ($75 annually), it is
>>>>> censored for anti-POCA content, is no better than the GREAT (and free)
>>>>> PI Forum, actually much LESS than the PI Forum, and thus is not really
>>>>> used.
>>>>> And when newly-freed spirits discuss things 'here' some POCA people
>>>>> feel compelled to answer.
>>>>> Perhaps the POCA propaganda machine should re-evaluate their
>>>>> communications method.
>>>>> Or maybe Dave, you are adding your commentary too subtly for me (big
>>>>> grin).
>>>>> (Read between the lines ?!? What lines ?!? GRIN)
>>>>> Now...
>>>>> What caught my attention was a statement was made by the
>>>>> POCA-propaganda machine (PPM) regarding evaluation of alternate
>>>>> printers.
>>>>> How this was presented did seem reasonable (at first!). Yet Judy
>>>>> DeRyke
>>>>> (and/or others) commented on how the decision was actually made. This
>>>>> was refuted by the PPM. So someone felt it necessary to post just how
>>>>> POCA makes its decisions (well how Michael Shortt makes decisions for
>>>>> ALL POCA members) using an actual e-mail message as the
>>>>> fact/source/evidence. What better way to form an opinion than with
>>>>> facts, right?
>>>>> The posting of the facts was made by a non-POCA officer.
>>>>> He was then threatened with censure and being kicked out of the club
>>>>> for posting the evidence. WOW !
>>>>> First, I do not believe the person posting the facts can or should be
>>>>> punished. He did not sign a statement or agree to ANY terms that he
>>>>> is
>>>>> in violation of. Challenging a lie is the right thing to do. If Mr.
>>>>> Shortt wants to try to punish anyone, it should be himself for not
>>>>> conveying the truth in the first place.
>>>>> While I am not passing judgment on any one suggestion for improvement
>>>>> of POCA, I do object to HOW things are done, and HOW people are being
>>>>> treated.
>>>>> More specifically how people who are not in full agreement with the
>>>>> current POCA president are being treated. Let everyone focus on that
>>>>>> one< issue. Correct that problem first, otherwise it will taint any
>>>>> and all (otherwise possibly good) suggestions for change within POCA.
>>>>> With the leak of this document, POCA members and non-members alike
>>>>> have
>>>>> been given insight into just how POCA is currently being run. How the
>>>>> PPM will respond will also be enlightening!
>>>>> Sad, quite sad.
>>>>> Here is an idea mentioned to me recently, perhaps if POCA wants to
>>>>> respond to statements, they could do so, but on their own website, and
>>>>> from their elected Public Relations guy (only), isn't that what the PR
>>>>> job entails?
>>>>> (Sorry to poke at Ed Mendez the current POCA PR guy, as he must have a
>>>>> REALLY tough job, being elected to be the official POCA voice, but
>>>>> having less-than-accurate statements made by the current POCA
>>>>> president
>>>>> as IF he is the sole POCA voice.)
>>>>> What a mess for the PR guy to be stuck with...
>>>>> Chuck
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
>>>>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>>>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>>>> [2]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>>> [3]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
>>>>> use the links above.
>>>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
>>>>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
>>>>> list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
>>>>> or approve the archiving of list messages.
>>>>>
>>>>> References
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. mailto:detomasoregistry at gmail.com
>>>>> 2. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>>> 3. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
>>>>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>>>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>>>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>>>
>>>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
>>>>> use the links above.
>>>>>
>>>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
>>>>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list.
>>>>> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or
>>>>> approve the archiving of list messages.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
>>>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>>
>>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use
>>>> the links above.
>>>>
>>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
>>>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list.
>>>> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or
>>>> approve the archiving of list messages.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
>>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>
>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>>>
>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
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>>
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 44
> Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 18:56:15 -0700
> From: Effie Richards <erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com>
> To: scottcouchman at yahoo.com
> Cc: detomaso detomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA
> Message-ID: <0A5C4895-3E21-46CB-B8DA-F789D8B2EC1F at zogob.sdcoxmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Actually, Scott, I am glad you asked!
> It was in the 80s and early 90s, before harassment laws went into effect. Someone, less qualified, was brought in to be over me, a young mail in a 3-piece suit, actually to make the decisions I was making. I felt very blindsided and discussed it only to be told they would not fire me but all my managerial decision makings will be revoked and I was to be placed at a clerical desk, still getting paid, but with no authority!... I was not included in managerial meetings and my suggestions were not heard.
> Knowing I was better than the new person, and due to my insecurities back then, (new in this country, all my degrees were earned in Greece), plus the great retirement plan (401K type) I decided to stick it out, lighten my work load and wait patiently for the new person to fail! Which is exactly what happened a few short months later, which seemed like eternity to me. Bad decisions made by that person cost the company some large losses and things turned around, Ithat person was gone, I was reinstated with higher pay and I was recognized finally! I vowed back then that I would never, ever put up with something like that again!
> I have since moved up to the highest management position available and when my boss retired from being active in his own company and moved to NY, I was the one he trusted to handle all his affairs. I can now work part time, my own hours, sometimes from my home and I love it!
> Should I mention the degree of some of the harassment included having a vase full of roses thrown at me and wrenching me, among other things? No laws to protect me back then.
> I now have a voice and opinion of my own and nobody can do that to me again. I have finally been rewarded for my loyalty and character plus my great decision makings.
> So, yes, I have been through that, but I always handled things in a civil manner, without drama and remained respectful.
> 40 years later, I'm my own boss!
> I still don't have a statue erected which is fine with me!
> Patience and respect is what I still believe in. But I realize that not every one can endure a bad treatment like I did years ago nor would I expect it these days. That was a long time ago....
>
> Sent from Effie's iPad
>
>> On Jun 8, 2016, at 2:31 PM, scottcouchman at yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>> Effie, I don't know what you do or did for a living, but I'm curious if after say 20 years of doing your job, having the respect of all your peers, they suddenly brought someone new in to manage you that treated you like KaKa ( I think that was your word), didn't listen to your recommendations, tried to take away your tools, didn't include you in the meetings to decide how you would do your job, said hateful things to you......and OBTW DIDN'T PAY YOU ANYTHING! How long would you stay in that job? These folks stayed 6 MONTHS!! I think they should get a statue erected in their honor.
>>
>> I don't know you.....hopefully we will get a chance to meet and hear each other's Pantera story, and I agree we need to try to find a way out of the darkness we're in right now, but I don't think it's fair to challenge these two POCA stalwarts to "shift through dislikes and focus on the actual great benefits of this group". Your Pantera Brother :-)
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Jun 8, 2016, at 1:34 PM, Effie Richards <erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I like your philosophical response, Chuck!
>>>
>>> Our first known philosophers, Aristoteles, Socrates and Sophocleous, were my ancestors!
>>> The Greek word means "friend (or lover) of wise thoughts" and being Greek, please, please, ignore as much as you don't like and focus on the positive of this website.
>>>
>>> Where else can you find great guys who know the DeTomaso brand so well and love the car so much, they have become experts in its challenging mechanism! Focus on your "friends of wise thoughts" - the Pantera philosophers, their wealth of knowledge and their spirit of sharing such and forget the other stuff.
>>>
>>> I have been a "victim" of bullying, discrimination and other negative actions (as many of us have at times), but I stood strong, proud and determined to learn a new language and culture at 23 and succeed in a business world that was destined for men only at the time. If I had allowed "words" to stop me, I would be nothing now.
>>>
>>> Be a part of the great group of Pantera owners who are your friends and many times mentors. You have more to gain by staying. Be patient, shift though "kaka" and focus on the CAR!
>>> I am amazed how quickly solutions/answers arrive from so many when you have a dilemma or a question about your car, whatever it may be. It is so impressive, isn't it?
>>>
>>> I'm not trying to convince anyone to do something they don't want to do. I am just pointing out that we can all shift through dislikes and focus on to the actual great benefits of this group.
>>>
>>> Respectfully,
>>> Effie Richards
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of cengles at cox.net
>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 12:28 PM
>>> To: steve at snclocks.com
>>> Cc: detomaso detomaso
>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA
>>>
>>> Dear Stephen,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> A philosophical response to the question:
>>> "....what POCA does for me.."
>>>
>>>
>>> What the new POCA does for you is to give you more value for your membership and a better membership experience.
>>>
>>>
>>> What the old POCA did with volunteers and
>>> enthusiasts in the days before the internet, was to provide a nationwide
>>> organization that aided and abetted information and experience about the
>>> difficulties and joys of owning a Pantera. The bright eyed amateurs
>>> would type out newsletters and mail them. The newsletters and the
>>> Profiles improved with time, but they both provided a framework for
>>> Pantera owners across the nation to benefit from their fellow members.
>>> Outside of southern California, it was the only therapy for being the
>>> "Lone Ranger" in Enid, Oklahoma, for example. With the incorporation
>>> of the Vegas Rally, a national meeting provided the faces to connect
>>> with the names and the opportunity to socialize and build relationships.
>>> Finally, the old Forum extended that to the internet with the results
>>> that we all are familiar with.
>>>
>>> Currently, the new POCA offers all the high tech
>>> satisfaction of digital cable attainment of various and sundry benefits.
>>>
>>> Historically, the old POCA was the foundation of
>>> the relationships and friendships and Pantera ownership that we have
>>> today.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Philosophically yours, Chuck Engles
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 8:51 AM, Stephen wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I believe that Thomas gets to the heart of the issue with the current
>>>> POCA
>>>> leader. There have been a number of times that MS has responded to
>>>> posts I
>>>> put out on there on the previous forum in a way that made me wonder
>>>> why I
>>>> bothered to post at all. It took me a while to distinguish between
>>>> the
>>>> several Mikes that posted on the previous forum - it was the short one
>>>> that
>>>> I figured out first - and I quit reading his responses. Especially
>>>> when I
>>>> realized that he really doesn't know it all, and that his technical
>>>> guidance
>>>> was flawed as often as it was correct.
>>>>
>>>> I know that the short is doing his best to put together his idea of a
>>>> better
>>>> POCA site. And I know it will offer a lot. No doubt. NTL, his
>>>> amazing
>>>> ability to piss folks off with his truly marginal interpersonal skills
>>>> is
>>>> well known, and totally inappropriate for a person in his position.
>>>> POCA is not this forum - and, well, vice versa. 3 years ago, when my
>>>> wife
>>>> and I bought 5332, I likely would have put up with the shorts crap to
>>>> get
>>>> what we needed - as I did in the past. Today - well, 5332 is a dream
>>>> to
>>>> drive, and I have this forum. Tell me again what POCA does for me -
>>>> other
>>>> than to remind me that some folk make terrible leaders?
>>>>
>>>> Stephen Nelson
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Thomas T?rnblom
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 1:36 AM
>>>> To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA
>>>>
>>>> 1) You can't do much about family, love it or hate it.
>>>>
>>>> 2) If you have an issue with a colleague, step away, if it is with
>>>> management, get a new job
>>>>
>>>> 3) If you have an issue with the current leadership in a club you pay
>>>> to be
>>>> part of, then quitting, even temporarily, would at least send a fairly
>>>> strong message that something is wrong, or else the club may not be
>>>> for you
>>>> anymore.
>>>>
>>>> As I've said before, I will likely not renew my POCA membership when
>>>> it is
>>>> due, and if I were ten years younger I would also get a new job.
>>>>
>>>> Life's too short to having to deal with a*holes.
>>>>
>>>> Thomas
>>>>
>>>>> Den 2016-06-08 kl. 08:48, skrev Ed Mendez:
>>>>> Quitting is only going to hurt the club and the people in it who love
>>>>> you.
>>>> We are all family here. Quit because of one person you don't agree
>>>> with?
>>>> Quit because of a family member you don't get along with? If we all
>>>> did that
>>>> none of us would be working in our day jobs, or have a family at all.
>>>>> I assume punch my brother in the face, but he is still my brother and
>>>>> that
>>>> would really piss off my mom.
>>>>> Just saying.
>>>>>
>>>>> Better that maybe we all just step away from the computer screen for
>>>>> a
>>>> while, there's a whole big world out there.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 8/06/2016, at 17:14, Stephen <steve at snclocks.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear GoNancy Haney - I can readily understand your letting go of
>>>>>> your POCA membership - right now the leadership is proving to be
>>>>>> just plain polarizing. Just don't let go of this forum! And, one
>>>>>> day, when hoof in mouth is not so rampant you can perhaps rejoin.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Stephen Nelson
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On
>>>>>> Behalf Of gonancy at juno.com
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 8:38 PM
>>>>>> To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>>>> Subject: [DeTomaso] POCA
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear Forum,
>>>>>> Even though I've just been a lurker and occasional poster and
>>>>>> spellcheck nazi on the Forum since its inception, I wanted to put it
>>>>>> out to the Pantera Community that I will be letting Judy McCartney
>>>>>> know that I am ending my membership in POCA effective immediately.
>>>>>> That means my associate member, the Profiles Editor, will be leaving
>>>>>> also. Mike has the June issue at the printer's right now. It will be
>>>>>> his
>>>> last issue.
>>>>>> As an aside, Mike couldn't even put his own profile on the POCA
>>>>>> website, even though he's on the BOD, because he's an associate
>>>>>> member,
>>>> not a "true "
>>>>>> member according to whomever it was that he contacted about it. How
>>>>>> do you like that? Makes him sound like a second class citizen.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's been a great 25 years,
>>>>>> GoNancy Haney
>>>>>>
>>>>>> P.S. I listened in on the last BOD meeting last week and it was all
>>>>>> I could do to keep my mouth shut. A monumental effort on my part. I
>>>>>> could not believe my ears sometimes at what MS was saying. He is a
>>>>>> real
>>>> piece of work.
>>>>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>>>>> Nextiva vFAX
>>>>>> Why Do You Still Have An Old Fax Machine?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5757934166446134075b2st03vuc
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not
>>>>>> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list
>>>>>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>>>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
>>>>>> etc.) use the links above.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
>>>>>> any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
>>>>>> the
>>>> list.
>>>>>> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or
>>>>>> approve the archiving of list messages.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not
>>>>>> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list
>>>>>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>>>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
>>>>>> etc.) use
>>>> the links above.
>>>>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
>>>>>> any
>>>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
>>>> list.
>>>> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or
>>>> approve
>>>> the archiving of list messages.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not
>>>>>> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list
>>>>>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>>>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
>>>>>> etc.) use
>>>> the links above.
>>>>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
>>>>>> any
>>>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
>>>> list.
>>>> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or
>>>> approve
>>>> the archiving of list messages.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
>>>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>>
>>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
>>>> use the links above.
>>>>
>>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
>>>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
>>>> list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
>>>> or approve the archiving of list messages.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
>>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>
>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>>>
>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
>>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>
>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>>>
>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 45
> Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 19:00:20 -0700
> From: Larry Finch <fresnofinches at aol.com>
> To: Email List Address For Posting <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] 2511 and State Farm
> Message-ID: <850E7CF7-CB89-43CD-A55F-76A9D5F8A84B at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Yes Tom, many months have passed. The accident was last August on the way to Monterey. It took quite a while for me to find and decide on selecting Denny Finn to do the repairs. 2511 went up to Denny in February. Locating all the needed repair pieces was not an easy task. Denny placed 2511 on his frame machine to determine the extent of damage and to get an estimate on time needed to pull things back as much as possible. He has already drilled out hundreds of spot welds on the front clip I located and those components are ready to be transferred to 2511. We spent many weeks fine-tuning the estimate in hopes that we would not cross the somewhat invisible line leading to a total loss. The estimate was submitted last Tuesday.
>
> So the delay has come from me. State Farm stepped up quite quickly and I'm once again reminded why I continue to choose them to provide all of my insurance needs.
>
> When the shit hits the fan and the performance of your insurance company is put to the test, I've learned through the years that ..."like a good neighbor, State Farm is there."
>
> Larry
>
>
>
> Sent from me using a magic, handheld electronic gizmo.
>
>> On Jun 8, 2016, at 5:58 PM, Tom Shinrock <tmshinro at aol.com> wrote:
>>
>> Good news indeed! Did it really take this long to resolve? Seems you posted your accident pictures several months ago.
>>
>> Tom
>> 5186
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Larry Finch via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
>> To: Email List Address For Posting <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>; Larry Finch <fresnofinches at aol.com>
>> Sent: Wed, Jun 8, 2016 7:56 pm
>> Subject: [DeTomaso] 2511 and State Farm
>>
>> All,
>>
>> I am happy to share some good news. Something we could use more of these days.
>>
>> Today I was informed the estimate submitted by Denny Finn for the repairs to 2511 has been accepted by State Farm.
>>
>> This means I have avoided a total loss declaration for 2511 and repairs can begin in the very near future.
>>
>> Denny assures me that the repairs will be finished before the end of this year.
>>
>> I am one very happy guy tonight. :-)
>>
>> Larry
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from me using a magic, handheld electronic gizmo.
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>
>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>>
>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
> -------------- next part --------------
> Yes Tom, many months have passed. The accident was last August on the
> way to Monterey. It took quite a while for me to find and decide on
> selecting Denny Finn to do the repairs. 2511 went up to Denny in
> February. Locating all the needed repair pieces was not an easy task.
> Denny placed 2511 on his frame machine to determine the extent of
> damage and to get an estimate on time needed to pull things back as
> much as possible. He has already drilled out hundreds of spot welds on
> the front clip I located and those components are ready to be
> transferred to 2511. We spent many weeks fine-tuning the estimate in
> hopes that we would not cross the somewhat invisible line leading to a
> total loss. The estimate was submitted last Tuesday.
> So the delay has come from me. State Farm stepped up quite quickly and
> I'm once again reminded why I continue to choose them to provide all of
> my insurance needs.
> When the shit hits the fan and the performance of your insurance
> company is put to the test, I've learned through the years that
> ..."like a good neighbor, State Farm is there."
>
> Larry
>
> Sent from me using a magic, handheld electronic gizmo.
>
> On Jun 8, 2016, at 5:58 PM, Tom Shinrock <[1]tmshinro at aol.com> wrote:
>
> Good news indeed! Did it really take this long to resolve? Seems you
> posted your accident pictures several months ago.
> Tom
> 5186
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Larry Finch via DeTomaso <[2]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> To: Email List Address For Posting
> <[3]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>; Larry Finch
> <[4]fresnofinches at aol.com>
> Sent: Wed, Jun 8, 2016 7:56 pm
> Subject: [DeTomaso] 2511 and State Farm
> All,
> I am happy to share some good news. Something we could use more of
> these days.
> Today I was informed the estimate submitted by Denny Finn for the
> repairs to 2511 has been accepted by State Farm.
> This means I have avoided a total loss declaration for 2511 and repairs
> can begin in the very near future.
> Denny assures me that the repairs will be finished before the end of
> this year.
> I am one very happy guy tonight. :-)
> Larry
> Sent from me using a magic, handheld electronic gizmo.
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [5]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> [6]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> use the links above.
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
> list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
> or approve the archiving of list messages.
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:tmshinro at aol.com
> 2. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 3. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 4. mailto:fresnofinches at aol.com
> 5. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 6. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 46
> Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 20:13:55 -0700
> From: MyCars <mycars at comcast.net>
> To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA
> Message-ID: <5455fbb5-2d2e-25da-15f5-25a3ed11f72d at comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> Effie,
> If they did erect a statue in your honor, would it be an Effiegy?
> In your story, I am glad to see that taking the high road and patience
> paid off for you in the end.
> I guess in these situations you have 3 choices:
> 1) take no action, sit there and put up with it
> 2) leave/quit/move on to something else
> 3) do something about it to bring about a change (hopefully a positive
> change)
>
> My membership in POCA kinda comes & goes mainly based on when my car is
> on the road, right now I am not a member and Judy might tell you it's
> been years! Yeah, I know. My cars are still in Seattle & I am now in the
> San Diego area, but I hope to get them down here to my avocado farm this
> summer.
>
> I try to steer clear of (or at least not take sides in) the politics,
> the cliques (yes we have cliques here, it's human nature) and the
> explosive personalities... as I do not want to regret something I've
> said later on.
>
> I'll try to keep a smile and a positive attitude. I know who the
> ambassadors of the Pantera are, I know who my friends are and I know who
> will lend a hand when needed (that is most if not all of you, we are
> such a great group of people). Me, I will lend a hand to anyone (the
> good, the bad & the ugly... sorry I have spaghetti westerns on my mind)
> in need if I am able.
>
> I am so glad that this list allows all points of view, is free from any
> entity that may try to chill those voices & opinions and always has free
> advice for a 'freeloader' like me ;-)
>
> and I don't know why I am rambling, I only wanted to make that Effiegy joke!
>
> Roydon
>
> On 6/8/2016 6:56 PM, Effie Richards wrote:
>> Actually, Scott, I am glad you asked!
>> It was in the 80s and early 90s, before harassment laws went into effect. Someone, less qualified, was brought in to be over me, a young mail in a 3-piece suit, actually to make the decisions I was making. I felt very blindsided and discussed it only to be told they would not fire me but all my managerial decision makings will be revoked and I was to be placed at a clerical desk, still getting paid, but with no authority!... I was not included in managerial meetings and my suggestions were not heard.
>> Knowing I was better than the new person, and due to my insecurities back then, (new in this country, all my degrees were earned in Greece), plus the great retirement plan (401K type) I decided to stick it out, lighten my work load and wait patiently for the new person to fail! Which is exactly what happened a few short months later, which seemed like eternity to me. Bad decisions made by that person cost the company some large losses and things turned around, Ithat person was gone, I was reinstated with higher pay and I was recognized finally! I vowed back then that I would never, ever put up with something like that again!
>> I have since moved up to the highest management position available and when my boss retired from being active in his own company and moved to NY, I was the one he trusted to handle all his affairs. I can now work part time, my own hours, sometimes from my home and I love it!
>> Should I mention the degree of some of the harassment included having a vase full of roses thrown at me and wrenching me, among other things? No laws to protect me back then.
>> I now have a voice and opinion of my own and nobody can do that to me again. I have finally been rewarded for my loyalty and character plus my great decision makings.
>> So, yes, I have been through that, but I always handled things in a civil manner, without drama and remained respectful.
>> 40 years later, I'm my own boss!
>> I still don't have a statue erected which is fine with me!
>> Patience and respect is what I still believe in. But I realize that not every one can endure a bad treatment like I did years ago nor would I expect it these days. That was a long time ago....
>>
>> Sent from Effie's iPad
>>
>>> On Jun 8, 2016, at 2:31 PM, scottcouchman at yahoo.com wrote:
>>>
>>> Effie, I don't know what you do or did for a living, but I'm curious if after say 20 years of doing your job, having the respect of all your peers, they suddenly brought someone new in to manage you that treated you like KaKa ( I think that was your word), didn't listen to your recommendations, tried to take away your tools, didn't include you in the meetings to decide how you would do your job, said hateful things to you......and OBTW DIDN'T PAY YOU ANYTHING! How long would you stay in that job? These folks stayed 6 MONTHS!! I think they should get a statue erected in their honor.
>>>
>>> I don't know you.....hopefully we will get a chance to meet and hear each other's Pantera story, and I agree we need to try to find a way out of the darkness we're in right now, but I don't think it's fair to challenge these two POCA stalwarts to "shift through dislikes and focus on the actual great benefits of this group". Your Pantera Brother :-)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Jun 8, 2016, at 1:34 PM, Effie Richards <erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I like your philosophical response, Chuck!
>>>>
>>>> Our first known philosophers, Aristoteles, Socrates and Sophocleous, were my ancestors!
>>>> The Greek word means "friend (or lover) of wise thoughts" and being Greek, please, please, ignore as much as you don't like and focus on the positive of this website.
>>>>
>>>> Where else can you find great guys who know the DeTomaso brand so well and love the car so much, they have become experts in its challenging mechanism! Focus on your "friends of wise thoughts" - the Pantera philosophers, their wealth of knowledge and their spirit of sharing such and forget the other stuff.
>>>>
>>>> I have been a "victim" of bullying, discrimination and other negative actions (as many of us have at times), but I stood strong, proud and determined to learn a new language and culture at 23 and succeed in a business world that was destined for men only at the time. If I had allowed "words" to stop me, I would be nothing now.
>>>>
>>>> Be a part of the great group of Pantera owners who are your friends and many times mentors. You have more to gain by staying. Be patient, shift though "kaka" and focus on the CAR!
>>>> I am amazed how quickly solutions/answers arrive from so many when you have a dilemma or a question about your car, whatever it may be. It is so impressive, isn't it?
>>>>
>>>> I'm not trying to convince anyone to do something they don't want to do. I am just pointing out that we can all shift through dislikes and focus on to the actual great benefits of this group.
>>>>
>>>> Respectfully,
>>>> Effie Richards
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of cengles at cox.net
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 12:28 PM
>>>> To: steve at snclocks.com
>>>> Cc: detomaso detomaso
>>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA
>>>>
>>>> Dear Stephen,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> A philosophical response to the question:
>>>> "....what POCA does for me.."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What the new POCA does for you is to give you more value for your membership and a better membership experience.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What the old POCA did with volunteers and
>>>> enthusiasts in the days before the internet, was to provide a nationwide
>>>> organization that aided and abetted information and experience about the
>>>> difficulties and joys of owning a Pantera. The bright eyed amateurs
>>>> would type out newsletters and mail them. The newsletters and the
>>>> Profiles improved with time, but they both provided a framework for
>>>> Pantera owners across the nation to benefit from their fellow members.
>>>> Outside of southern California, it was the only therapy for being the
>>>> "Lone Ranger" in Enid, Oklahoma, for example. With the incorporation
>>>> of the Vegas Rally, a national meeting provided the faces to connect
>>>> with the names and the opportunity to socialize and build relationships.
>>>> Finally, the old Forum extended that to the internet with the results
>>>> that we all are familiar with.
>>>>
>>>> Currently, the new POCA offers all the high tech
>>>> satisfaction of digital cable attainment of various and sundry benefits.
>>>>
>>>> Historically, the old POCA was the foundation of
>>>> the relationships and friendships and Pantera ownership that we have
>>>> today.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Philosophically yours, Chuck Engles
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 8:51 AM, Stephen wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I believe that Thomas gets to the heart of the issue with the current
>>>>> POCA
>>>>> leader. There have been a number of times that MS has responded to
>>>>> posts I
>>>>> put out on there on the previous forum in a way that made me wonder
>>>>> why I
>>>>> bothered to post at all. It took me a while to distinguish between
>>>>> the
>>>>> several Mikes that posted on the previous forum - it was the short one
>>>>> that
>>>>> I figured out first - and I quit reading his responses. Especially
>>>>> when I
>>>>> realized that he really doesn't know it all, and that his technical
>>>>> guidance
>>>>> was flawed as often as it was correct.
>>>>>
>>>>> I know that the short is doing his best to put together his idea of a
>>>>> better
>>>>> POCA site. And I know it will offer a lot. No doubt. NTL, his
>>>>> amazing
>>>>> ability to piss folks off with his truly marginal interpersonal skills
>>>>> is
>>>>> well known, and totally inappropriate for a person in his position.
>>>>> POCA is not this forum - and, well, vice versa. 3 years ago, when my
>>>>> wife
>>>>> and I bought 5332, I likely would have put up with the shorts crap to
>>>>> get
>>>>> what we needed - as I did in the past. Today - well, 5332 is a dream
>>>>> to
>>>>> drive, and I have this forum. Tell me again what POCA does for me -
>>>>> other
>>>>> than to remind me that some folk make terrible leaders?
>>>>>
>>>>> Stephen Nelson
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On
>>>>> Behalf
>>>>> Of Thomas T?rnblom
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 1:36 AM
>>>>> To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA
>>>>>
>>>>> 1) You can't do much about family, love it or hate it.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2) If you have an issue with a colleague, step away, if it is with
>>>>> management, get a new job
>>>>>
>>>>> 3) If you have an issue with the current leadership in a club you pay
>>>>> to be
>>>>> part of, then quitting, even temporarily, would at least send a fairly
>>>>> strong message that something is wrong, or else the club may not be
>>>>> for you
>>>>> anymore.
>>>>>
>>>>> As I've said before, I will likely not renew my POCA membership when
>>>>> it is
>>>>> due, and if I were ten years younger I would also get a new job.
>>>>>
>>>>> Life's too short to having to deal with a*holes.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thomas
>>>>>
>>>>>> Den 2016-06-08 kl. 08:48, skrev Ed Mendez:
>>>>>> Quitting is only going to hurt the club and the people in it who love
>>>>>> you.
>>>>> We are all family here. Quit because of one person you don't agree
>>>>> with?
>>>>> Quit because of a family member you don't get along with? If we all
>>>>> did that
>>>>> none of us would be working in our day jobs, or have a family at all.
>>>>>> I assume punch my brother in the face, but he is still my brother and
>>>>>> that
>>>>> would really piss off my mom.
>>>>>> Just saying.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Better that maybe we all just step away from the computer screen for
>>>>>> a
>>>>> while, there's a whole big world out there.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 8/06/2016, at 17:14, Stephen <steve at snclocks.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dear GoNancy Haney - I can readily understand your letting go of
>>>>>>> your POCA membership - right now the leadership is proving to be
>>>>>>> just plain polarizing. Just don't let go of this forum! And, one
>>>>>>> day, when hoof in mouth is not so rampant you can perhaps rejoin.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Stephen Nelson
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On
>>>>>>> Behalf Of gonancy at juno.com
>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 8:38 PM
>>>>>>> To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>>>>> Subject: [DeTomaso] POCA
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dear Forum,
>>>>>>> Even though I've just been a lurker and occasional poster and
>>>>>>> spellcheck nazi on the Forum since its inception, I wanted to put it
>>>>>>> out to the Pantera Community that I will be letting Judy McCartney
>>>>>>> know that I am ending my membership in POCA effective immediately.
>>>>>>> That means my associate member, the Profiles Editor, will be leaving
>>>>>>> also. Mike has the June issue at the printer's right now. It will be
>>>>>>> his
>>>>> last issue.
>>>>>>> As an aside, Mike couldn't even put his own profile on the POCA
>>>>>>> website, even though he's on the BOD, because he's an associate
>>>>>>> member,
>>>>> not a "true "
>>>>>>> member according to whomever it was that he contacted about it. How
>>>>>>> do you like that? Makes him sound like a second class citizen.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's been a great 25 years,
>>>>>>> GoNancy Haney
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> P.S. I listened in on the last BOD meeting last week and it was all
>>>>>>> I could do to keep my mouth shut. A monumental effort on my part. I
>>>>>>> could not believe my ears sometimes at what MS was saying. He is a
>>>>>>> real
>>>>> piece of work.
>>>>>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>>>>>> Nextiva vFAX
>>>>>>> Why Do You Still Have An Old Fax Machine?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5757934166446134075b2st03vuc
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not
>>>>>>> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list
>>>>>>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>>>>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
>>>>>>> etc.) use the links above.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
>>>>>>> any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
>>>>>>> the
>>>>> list.
>>>>>>> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or
>>>>>>> approve the archiving of list messages.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not
>>>>>>> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list
>>>>>>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>>>>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
>>>>>>> etc.) use
>>>>> the links above.
>>>>>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
>>>>>>> any
>>>>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
>>>>> list.
>>>>> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or
>>>>> approve
>>>>> the archiving of list messages.
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not
>>>>>>> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list
>>>>>>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>>>>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
>>>>>>> etc.) use
>>>>> the links above.
>>>>>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
>>>>>>> any
>>>>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
>>>>> list.
>>>>> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or
>>>>> approve
>>>>> the archiving of list messages.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
>>>>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>>>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>>>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>>>
>>>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
>>>>> use the links above.
>>>>>
>>>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
>>>>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
>>>>> list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
>>>>> or approve the archiving of list messages.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
>>>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>>
>>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>>>>
>>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
>>>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>>
>>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>>>>
>>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>
>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>>
>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 47
> Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 20:18:34 -0700
> From: Dennis Valdez <sjcarguy60 at yahoo.com>
> To: Larry Finch <fresnofinches at aol.com>
> Cc: Email List Address For Posting <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] 2511 and State Farm
> Message-ID: <4186663A-8E3B-434F-97F9-ED0B83DFC968 at yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Great news Larry!!
>
> Dennis Valdez
>
>> On Jun 8, 2016, at 5:56 PM, Larry Finch via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
>>
>> All,
>>
>> I am happy to share some good news. Something we could use more of these days.
>>
>> Today I was informed the estimate submitted by Denny Finn for the repairs to 2511 has been accepted by State Farm.
>>
>> This means I have avoided a total loss declaration for 2511 and repairs can begin in the very near future.
>>
>> Denny assures me that the repairs will be finished before the end of this year.
>>
>> I am one very happy guy tonight. :-)
>>
>> Larry
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from me using a magic, handheld electronic gizmo.
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>
>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>>
>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 48
> Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2016 21:45:18 -0600
> From: Bill Moore <bill at incendium.com>
> To: Larry Finch <fresnofinches at aol.com>, Email List Address For
> Posting <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] 2511 and State Farm
> Message-ID: <nhhw1vne66mi42h4jai3ubti.1465443918182 at email.android.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>
>
> Happy happy for you Larry.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
> Bill MooreIncendium SupplyCalgary
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Larry Finch via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Date: 2016-06-08 6:56 PM (GMT-07:00)
> To: Email List Address For Posting <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>, Larry Finch <fresnofinches at aol.com>
> Subject: [DeTomaso] 2511 and State Farm
>
> All,
>
> I am happy to share some good news. Something we could use more of these days.
>
> Today I was informed the estimate submitted by Denny Finn for the repairs to 2511 has been accepted by State Farm.
>
> This means I have avoided a total loss declaration for 2511 and repairs can begin in the very near future.
>
> Denny assures me that the repairs will be finished before the end of this year.
>
> I am one very happy guy tonight.? :-)
>
> Larry
>
>
>
>
> Sent from me using a magic, handheld electronic gizmo.
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
> -------------- next part --------------
> Happy happy for you Larry.
>
> Cheers,
> Bill Moore
> Incendium Supply
> Calgary
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Larry Finch via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Date: 2016-06-08 6:56 PM (GMT-07:00)
> To: Email List Address For Posting <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>,
> Larry Finch <fresnofinches at aol.com>
> Subject: [DeTomaso] 2511 and State Farm
> All,
> I am happy to share some good news. Something we could use more of
> these days.
> Today I was informed the estimate submitted by Denny Finn for the
> repairs to 2511 has been accepted by State Farm.
> This means I have avoided a total loss declaration for 2511 and repairs
> can begin in the very near future.
> Denny assures me that the repairs will be finished before the end of
> this year.
> I am one very happy guy tonight. :-)
> Larry
> Sent from me using a magic, handheld electronic gizmo.
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> use the links above.
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
> list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
> or approve the archiving of list messages.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 49
> Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 21:24:25 -0700
> From: Effie Richards <erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com>
> To: MyCars <mycars at comcast.net>
> Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA
> Message-ID: <8232EBFE-FD35-49DC-AFE6-28DF78A80451 at zogob.sdcoxmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Roydon,
> As I mentioned, I was very insecure about being a foreign citizen educated outside of the US plus a mother of two with a mortgage so I took Option (1). Do I have regrets about that? I did but I'm over it now. I did not have the confidence back then.
> I would definitely go with Option (3) today and a lawsuit!....
> I also live in San Diego!
> Effiegy!
> Sent from Effie's iPad
>
>> On Jun 8, 2016, at 8:13 PM, MyCars <mycars at comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>> Effie,
>> If they did erect a statue in your honor, would it be an Effiegy?
>> In your story, I am glad to see that taking the high road and patience paid off for you in the end.
>> I guess in these situations you have 3 choices:
>> 1) take no action, sit there and put up with it
>> 2) leave/quit/move on to something else
>> 3) do something about it to bring about a change (hopefully a positive change)
>>
>> My membership in POCA kinda comes & goes mainly based on when my car is on the road, right now I am not a member and Judy might tell you it's been years! Yeah, I know. My cars are still in Seattle & I am now in the San Diego area, but I hope to get them down here to my avocado farm this summer.
>>
>> I try to steer clear of (or at least not take sides in) the politics, the cliques (yes we have cliques here, it's human nature) and the explosive personalities... as I do not want to regret something I've said later on.
>>
>> I'll try to keep a smile and a positive attitude. I know who the ambassadors of the Pantera are, I know who my friends are and I know who will lend a hand when needed (that is most if not all of you, we are such a great group of people). Me, I will lend a hand to anyone (the good, the bad & the ugly... sorry I have spaghetti westerns on my mind) in need if I am able.
>>
>> I am so glad that this list allows all points of view, is free from any entity that may try to chill those voices & opinions and always has free advice for a 'freeloader' like me ;-)
>>
>> and I don't know why I am rambling, I only wanted to make that Effiegy joke!
>>
>> Roydon
>>
>>> On 6/8/2016 6:56 PM, Effie Richards wrote:
>>> Actually, Scott, I am glad you asked!
>>> It was in the 80s and early 90s, before harassment laws went into effect. Someone, less qualified, was brought in to be over me, a young mail in a 3-piece suit, actually to make the decisions I was making. I felt very blindsided and discussed it only to be told they would not fire me but all my managerial decision makings will be revoked and I was to be placed at a clerical desk, still getting paid, but with no authority!... I was not included in managerial meetings and my suggestions were not heard.
>>> Knowing I was better than the new person, and due to my insecurities back then, (new in this country, all my degrees were earned in Greece), plus the great retirement plan (401K type) I decided to stick it out, lighten my work load and wait patiently for the new person to fail! Which is exactly what happened a few short months later, which seemed like eternity to me. Bad decisions made by that person cost the company some large losses and things turned around, Ithat person was gone, I was reinstated with higher pay and I was recognized finally! I vowed back then that I would never, ever put up with something like that again!
>>> I have since moved up to the highest management position available and when my boss retired from being active in his own company and moved to NY, I was the one he trusted to handle all his affairs. I can now work part time, my own hours, sometimes from my home and I love it!
>>> Should I mention the degree of some of the harassment included having a vase full of roses thrown at me and wrenching me, among other things? No laws to protect me back then.
>>> I now have a voice and opinion of my own and nobody can do that to me again. I have finally been rewarded for my loyalty and character plus my great decision makings.
>>> So, yes, I have been through that, but I always handled things in a civil manner, without drama and remained respectful.
>>> 40 years later, I'm my own boss!
>>> I still don't have a statue erected which is fine with me!
>>> Patience and respect is what I still believe in. But I realize that not every one can endure a bad treatment like I did years ago nor would I expect it these days. That was a long time ago....
>>>
>>> Sent from Effie's iPad
>>>
>>>> On Jun 8, 2016, at 2:31 PM, scottcouchman at yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Effie, I don't know what you do or did for a living, but I'm curious if after say 20 years of doing your job, having the respect of all your peers, they suddenly brought someone new in to manage you that treated you like KaKa ( I think that was your word), didn't listen to your recommendations, tried to take away your tools, didn't include you in the meetings to decide how you would do your job, said hateful things to you......and OBTW DIDN'T PAY YOU ANYTHING! How long would you stay in that job? These folks stayed 6 MONTHS!! I think they should get a statue erected in their honor.
>>>>
>>>> I don't know you.....hopefully we will get a chance to meet and hear each other's Pantera story, and I agree we need to try to find a way out of the darkness we're in right now, but I don't think it's fair to challenge these two POCA stalwarts to "shift through dislikes and focus on the actual great benefits of this group". Your Pantera Brother :-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Jun 8, 2016, at 1:34 PM, Effie Richards <erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I like your philosophical response, Chuck!
>>>>>
>>>>> Our first known philosophers, Aristoteles, Socrates and Sophocleous, were my ancestors!
>>>>> The Greek word means "friend (or lover) of wise thoughts" and being Greek, please, please, ignore as much as you don't like and focus on the positive of this website.
>>>>>
>>>>> Where else can you find great guys who know the DeTomaso brand so well and love the car so much, they have become experts in its challenging mechanism! Focus on your "friends of wise thoughts" - the Pantera philosophers, their wealth of knowledge and their spirit of sharing such and forget the other stuff.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have been a "victim" of bullying, discrimination and other negative actions (as many of us have at times), but I stood strong, proud and determined to learn a new language and culture at 23 and succeed in a business world that was destined for men only at the time. If I had allowed "words" to stop me, I would be nothing now.
>>>>>
>>>>> Be a part of the great group of Pantera owners who are your friends and many times mentors. You have more to gain by staying. Be patient, shift though "kaka" and focus on the CAR!
>>>>> I am amazed how quickly solutions/answers arrive from so many when you have a dilemma or a question about your car, whatever it may be. It is so impressive, isn't it?
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not trying to convince anyone to do something they don't want to do. I am just pointing out that we can all shift through dislikes and focus on to the actual great benefits of this group.
>>>>>
>>>>> Respectfully,
>>>>> Effie Richards
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of cengles at cox.net
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 12:28 PM
>>>>> To: steve at snclocks.com
>>>>> Cc: detomaso detomaso
>>>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA
>>>>>
>>>>> Dear Stephen,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> A philosophical response to the question:
>>>>> "....what POCA does for me.."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> What the new POCA does for you is to give you more value for your membership and a better membership experience.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> What the old POCA did with volunteers and
>>>>> enthusiasts in the days before the internet, was to provide a nationwide
>>>>> organization that aided and abetted information and experience about the
>>>>> difficulties and joys of owning a Pantera. The bright eyed amateurs
>>>>> would type out newsletters and mail them. The newsletters and the
>>>>> Profiles improved with time, but they both provided a framework for
>>>>> Pantera owners across the nation to benefit from their fellow members.
>>>>> Outside of southern California, it was the only therapy for being the
>>>>> "Lone Ranger" in Enid, Oklahoma, for example. With the incorporation
>>>>> of the Vegas Rally, a national meeting provided the faces to connect
>>>>> with the names and the opportunity to socialize and build relationships.
>>>>> Finally, the old Forum extended that to the internet with the results
>>>>> that we all are familiar with.
>>>>>
>>>>> Currently, the new POCA offers all the high tech
>>>>> satisfaction of digital cable attainment of various and sundry benefits.
>>>>>
>>>>> Historically, the old POCA was the foundation of
>>>>> the relationships and friendships and Pantera ownership that we have
>>>>> today.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Philosophically yours, Chuck Engles
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 8:51 AM, Stephen wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I believe that Thomas gets to the heart of the issue with the current
>>>>>> POCA
>>>>>> leader. There have been a number of times that MS has responded to
>>>>>> posts I
>>>>>> put out on there on the previous forum in a way that made me wonder
>>>>>> why I
>>>>>> bothered to post at all. It took me a while to distinguish between
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> several Mikes that posted on the previous forum - it was the short one
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> I figured out first - and I quit reading his responses. Especially
>>>>>> when I
>>>>>> realized that he really doesn't know it all, and that his technical
>>>>>> guidance
>>>>>> was flawed as often as it was correct.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I know that the short is doing his best to put together his idea of a
>>>>>> better
>>>>>> POCA site. And I know it will offer a lot. No doubt. NTL, his
>>>>>> amazing
>>>>>> ability to piss folks off with his truly marginal interpersonal skills
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> well known, and totally inappropriate for a person in his position.
>>>>>> POCA is not this forum - and, well, vice versa. 3 years ago, when my
>>>>>> wife
>>>>>> and I bought 5332, I likely would have put up with the shorts crap to
>>>>>> get
>>>>>> what we needed - as I did in the past. Today - well, 5332 is a dream
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> drive, and I have this forum. Tell me again what POCA does for me -
>>>>>> other
>>>>>> than to remind me that some folk make terrible leaders?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Stephen Nelson
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On
>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>> Of Thomas T?rnblom
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 1:36 AM
>>>>>> To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1) You can't do much about family, love it or hate it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2) If you have an issue with a colleague, step away, if it is with
>>>>>> management, get a new job
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 3) If you have an issue with the current leadership in a club you pay
>>>>>> to be
>>>>>> part of, then quitting, even temporarily, would at least send a fairly
>>>>>> strong message that something is wrong, or else the club may not be
>>>>>> for you
>>>>>> anymore.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As I've said before, I will likely not renew my POCA membership when
>>>>>> it is
>>>>>> due, and if I were ten years younger I would also get a new job.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Life's too short to having to deal with a*holes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thomas
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Den 2016-06-08 kl. 08:48, skrev Ed Mendez:
>>>>>>> Quitting is only going to hurt the club and the people in it who love
>>>>>>> you.
>>>>>> We are all family here. Quit because of one person you don't agree
>>>>>> with?
>>>>>> Quit because of a family member you don't get along with? If we all
>>>>>> did that
>>>>>> none of us would be working in our day jobs, or have a family at all.
>>>>>>> I assume punch my brother in the face, but he is still my brother and
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>> would really piss off my mom.
>>>>>>> Just saying.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Better that maybe we all just step away from the computer screen for
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>> while, there's a whole big world out there.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 8/06/2016, at 17:14, Stephen <steve at snclocks.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dear GoNancy Haney - I can readily understand your letting go of
>>>>>>>> your POCA membership - right now the leadership is proving to be
>>>>>>>> just plain polarizing. Just don't let go of this forum! And, one
>>>>>>>> day, when hoof in mouth is not so rampant you can perhaps rejoin.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Stephen Nelson
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On
>>>>>>>> Behalf Of gonancy at juno.com
>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 8:38 PM
>>>>>>>> To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>>>>>> Subject: [DeTomaso] POCA
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dear Forum,
>>>>>>>> Even though I've just been a lurker and occasional poster and
>>>>>>>> spellcheck nazi on the Forum since its inception, I wanted to put it
>>>>>>>> out to the Pantera Community that I will be letting Judy McCartney
>>>>>>>> know that I am ending my membership in POCA effective immediately.
>>>>>>>> That means my associate member, the Profiles Editor, will be leaving
>>>>>>>> also. Mike has the June issue at the printer's right now. It will be
>>>>>>>> his
>>>>>> last issue.
>>>>>>>> As an aside, Mike couldn't even put his own profile on the POCA
>>>>>>>> website, even though he's on the BOD, because he's an associate
>>>>>>>> member,
>>>>>> not a "true "
>>>>>>>> member according to whomever it was that he contacted about it. How
>>>>>>>> do you like that? Makes him sound like a second class citizen.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's been a great 25 years,
>>>>>>>> GoNancy Haney
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> P.S. I listened in on the last BOD meeting last week and it was all
>>>>>>>> I could do to keep my mouth shut. A monumental effort on my part. I
>>>>>>>> could not believe my ears sometimes at what MS was saying. He is a
>>>>>>>> real
>>>>>> piece of work.
>>>>>>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Nextiva vFAX
>>>>>>>> Why Do You Still Have An Old Fax Machine?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5757934166446134075b2st03vuc
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not
>>>>>>>> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list
>>>>>>>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>>>>>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
>>>>>>>> etc.) use the links above.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
>>>>>>>> any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>> list.
>>>>>>>> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or
>>>>>>>> approve the archiving of list messages.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not
>>>>>>>> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list
>>>>>>>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>>>>>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
>>>>>>>> etc.) use
>>>>>> the links above.
>>>>>>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
>>>>>>>> any
>>>>>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
>>>>>> list.
>>>>>> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or
>>>>>> approve
>>>>>> the archiving of list messages.
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not
>>>>>>>> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list
>>>>>>>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>>>>>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
>>>>>>>> etc.) use
>>>>>> the links above.
>>>>>>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
>>>>>>>> any
>>>>>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
>>>>>> list.
>>>>>> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or
>>>>>> approve
>>>>>> the archiving of list messages.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
>>>>>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>>>>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>>>>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>>>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
>>>>>> use the links above.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
>>>>>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
>>>>>> list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
>>>>>> or approve the archiving of list messages.
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
>>>>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>>>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>>>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>>>
>>>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>>>>>
>>>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
>>>>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>>>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>>>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>>>
>>>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>>>>>
>>>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
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>>>
>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>
>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 50
> Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 08:43:11 +0200
> From: Thomas Tornblom <thomas at hax.se>
> To: Mike Drew <MikeLDrew at aol.com>
> Cc: "detomaso at server.detomasolist.com"
> <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>, Forest Goodhart <forestg at att.net>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Shout out
> Message-ID: <5757BE7F.7060200 at hax.se>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>
> I would be very surprised if it had any thread other than M10x1.
>
> Thomas
>
> Den 2016-06-07 kl. 22:36, skrev Mike Drew:
>> Thomas,
>>
>> The valve block is almost assuredly a Euro Ford part, maybe common with a Transit van or something like that...
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jun 7, 2016, at 13:00, thomas <thomas at hax.se> wrote:
>>
>>> The shuttle valve looks very similar to late 1960:s early 1970:s Volvo.
>>> However they did not have a hydraulic switch.
>>>
>>> Many European cars of the era had switches that look very similar.
>>> Earlier single circuit Volvos, VW, Saab could be potential donors.
>>>
>>> What
>>> about: [1]http://www.napaonline.com/napa/en/search/?text=Brake+light+sw
>>> itch
>>>
>>> Thomas
>>>
>>> 7 juni 2016 kl. 21:36 skrev Forest Goodhart <[2]forestg at att.net>:
>>>
>>> Tom,
>>> I've never found a brake light switch anywhere other than a Pantera
>>> vendor. I have tried NAPA and other parts stores but without luck. If
>>> the source of the shuttle valve could be determined you might then be
>>> able to source one.
>>> Forest
>>> __________________________________________________________________
>>> From: Tom Shinrock via DeTomaso <[3]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
>>> To: [4]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 7, 2016 10:41 AM
>>> Subject: [DeTomaso] Shout out
>>> All,
>>> I drove my Pantera from Iowa to St. Charles, IL to attend the Great
>>> Lakes Pantera chapter's Spring Fling. I've attended all of these
>>> since
>>> the first one three years ago. As usual, it was good to see old
>>> friends and meet new ones. I believe Jon Haas has attended all of
>>> these events to showcase his electronic products designed for the
>>> Pantera.
>>> It is always enjoyable to talk to Jon and see him demonstrate his
>>> stuff.
>>> This year it was fortuitous for me to have Jon attend because for
>>> the
>>> first time in 30 years I had car trouble. The car ran great on the
>>> drive to St. Charles and it ran with no problems to the cars and
>>> coffee
>>> event we attended on Saturday morning. Come Sunday morning when we
>>> are
>>> getting ready to leave the hotel for breakfast, my car wouldn't
>>> stay
>>> running. It started immediately and then died. Lots of cranking
>>> followed with no start.
>>> Dave Doddek (GLP chapter president) immediately came to my aid to
>>> diagnose the problem, as he is prone to do. He pulled a plug wire
>>> and
>>> determined there was no spark. He checked for moisture in the
>>> distributor cap (there was none), he checked for loose connections
>>> on
>>> the firewall (there were none) he looked at the fuse box for
>>> anything
>>> out of the ordinary (there wasn't). By this time Jon joined in the
>>> investigation (after all....I was holding everybody up to go to
>>> breakfast).
>>> During Dave and Jon's troubleshooting, I was able to start the car
>>> a
>>> couple of times but then it wouldn't start afterwards. Dave had
>>> mentioned that the terminal block under the steering wheel column
>>> can
>>> cause problems and after looking at it, it was determined that that
>>> was
>>> the source of my intermittent ignition problem. My terminal block
>>> was
>>> corroded so bad that the screws holding the wires could not be
>>> turned.
>>> Jon said he usually carries that terminal block with him but he
>>> left
>>> in
>>> such a hurry for the event he didn't pack any. He then proceeded
>>> to
>>> make a field repair using a combination of a smaller connector and
>>> spade connectors to connect the wires without the terminal block so
>>> I
>>> could drive the four hours home.
>>> As you are all aware, working under the steering column with the
>>> seat
>>> in is not very comfortable and there is not much room to work with
>>> the
>>> short length of wire. Jon spent at least 30 to 40 minutes on his
>>> back
>>> fixing my car, which worked perfectly after he was done and got me
>>> home
>>> without incident.
>>> The help and assistance offered by Dave and Jon were greatly
>>> appreciated by me and demonstrate why I love being a part of the
>>> Pantera family.
>>> Oh...and by the way. Jon also diagnosed that my brake switch on
>>> the
>>> shuttle valve was the reason my brake lights didn't work (as I
>>> found
>>> out driving to the cars and coffee) by another Pantera owner
>>> driving
>>> behind me. Is this switch special to the point I need to get it
>>> from
>>> an vendor or is it a common NAPA part?
>>> Tom
>>> 5186
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
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>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>> [1][5]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>> [2][6]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
>>> use the links above.
>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
>>> any
>>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
>>> list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
>>> archive
>>> or approve the archiving of list messages.
>>> References
>>> 1. [7]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>> 2. [8]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
>>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>> [9]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>> [10]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
>>> use the links above.
>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
>>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
>>> list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
>>> or approve the archiving of list messages.
>>> !DSPAM:5757223b106691209923907!
>>>
>>> References
>>>
>>> 1. http://www.napaonline.com/napa/en/search/?text=Brake+light+switch
>>> 2. mailto:forestg at att.net
>>> 3. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>> 4. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>> 5. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>> 6. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>> 7. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>> 8. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>> 9. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>> 10. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
>>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>
>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>>>
>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
>>
>> !DSPAM:5757305712516274799312!
>>
>
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