[DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum

Charles Engles cengles at cox.net
Wed Jun 8 20:03:37 EDT 2016


Dear Jack,


           That is fascinating.  I would like to thank you for confirming my
preference for the Pantera group!


                          Warmest regards,  Chuck Engles



-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf
Of Jack Donahue
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 7:01 PM
To: Will Kooiman
Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum

I have the dubious distinction of being the longest standing member in the
Porsche Club of America, and the sole Charter member - 61 years - whew -
that went fast. I must say the Pantera group is a lot more personable than
the Porsche group. 
#4348

> On Jun 8, 2016, at 4:00 PM, Will Kooiman <will.kooiman at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> The Porsche club has over 100,000 members.
> 
> The Ferrari club has over 6,000.
> 
> It isn't exactly an apples-to-apples comparison.
> 
> You need to consider what the reserves might be used for.  Personally, 
> I think $100,00 sounds about right, but I would just be guessing.  I'd 
> have to see a risk assessment to make an educated guess on an 
> acceptable cash reserve.
> 
> --
> Will
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 6/8/16 6:13 PM, "Ed Mendez" <edducati at mac.com> wrote:
> 
>> The Ferrari and Porsche clubs have over $1,000,000 in reserves. Their 
>> annual reports are available online. SCCA has more than that last 
>> time I checked.
>> 
>> Ed
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus
>> 
>>> On 9/06/2016, at 05:51, Ken Green via DeTomaso 
>>> <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>  You mean do something before someone burns though the cash reserve  
>>> playing with their ideas of what a club should be.  I heard the POCA  
>>> cash reserve is over $100,000.  I don't know anything about the 
>>> typical  size of cash reserves for car clubs, but that seems like a 
>>> lot?
>>>  Ken
>>>    
>>> __________________________________________________________________
>>> 
>>>  From: Dave <dave at damardirect.com>
>>>  To: The DeTomaso Registry Guy <detomasoregistry at gmail.com>
>>>  Cc: DeTomaso List <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
>>>  Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 10:18 AM
>>>  Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum  Thank you 
>>> Chuck for letting me know what has transpired within the  
>>> organization. Thank you Kurt for the resurrection.
>>>  It is interesting that the new POCA website forum is far behind 
>>> this  forum as far as popularity. It is also worth noting that 
>>> technology,  the "better", new format of the POCA, is suffering a 
>>> lack of attendance  or participation, compared to this site. The 
>>> phrase "build it & they  will come running" certainly does not sound 
>>> like it is happening. So  why is the old guard allowing this to 
>>> happen? It seems so flagrant. I  think I read a sentiment that in 
>>> essence said, if you don't like the  new structure, you are not 
>>> needed. This is a car group, how do you  censor or better, why would 
>>> you threaten anyone who disagrees with  expulsion?
>>>  Seems there is the dominate group forcing the subordinate group to  
>>> leave, the very definition of expulsion.
>>>  I agree Chuck, so very sad. I would think change is needed sooner 
>>> than  later.
>>>  Dave
>>>  -----Original Message-----
>>>  From: The DeTomaso Registry Guy 
>>> [mailto:[1]detomasoregistry at gmail.com]
>>>  Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 2:27 PM
>>>  To: Dave
>>>  Cc: DeTomaso List
>>>  Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA business on this forum  Can someone 
>>> enlighten me, please?
>>>  I am/was under the impression this email list or forum was rescued 
>>> from  being dissolved by Kurt. (thank you Kurt) I was also under the  
>>> impression this site was not part of or controlled by POCA..
>>>  Is this true?
>>>  Thanks
>>>  IndyDave
>>>  Dave,
>>>  You missed someone's good explanation of the list history.  It was  
>>> started long ago, and when it was time for the guy to move on, he  
>>> allowed POCA to 'manage' it under certain conditions.
>>>  Then recently MS decided it should be killed, favoring the POCA  
>>> Board-like forum.
>>>  Kurt Byrnes (sp ?) took responsibility and restarted it.
>>>  Now, the list is 'freed from POCA'...  THANKS Kurt!
>>>  To use the POCA forum requires membership ($75 annually), it is  
>>> censored for anti-POCA content, is no better than the GREAT (and 
>>> free)  PI Forum, actually much LESS than the PI Forum, and thus is 
>>> not really  used.
>>>  And when newly-freed spirits discuss things 'here' some POCA people  
>>> feel compelled to answer.
>>>  Perhaps the POCA propaganda machine should re-evaluate their  
>>> communications method.
>>>  Or maybe Dave, you are adding your commentary too subtly for me 
>>> (big  grin).
>>>  (Read between the lines ?!?  What lines ?!?  GRIN)  Now...
>>>  What caught my attention was a statement was made by the  
>>> POCA-propaganda machine (PPM) regarding evaluation of alternate  
>>> printers.
>>>  How this was presented did seem reasonable (at first!). Yet Judy 
>>> DeRyke  (and/or others) commented on how the decision was actually 
>>> made.  This  was refuted by the PPM. So someone felt it necessary to 
>>> post just how  POCA makes its decisions (well how Michael Shortt 
>>> makes decisions for  ALL POCA members) using an actual e-mail 
>>> message as the  fact/source/evidence. What better way to form an 
>>> opinion than with  facts, right?
>>>  The posting of the facts was made by a non-POCA officer.
>>>  He was then threatened with censure and being kicked out of the 
>>> club  for posting the evidence.  WOW !
>>>  First, I do not believe the person posting the facts can or should 
>>> be  punished.  He did not sign a statement or agree to ANY terms 
>>> that he is  in violation of. Challenging a lie is the right thing to 
>>> do. If Mr.
>>>  Shortt wants to try to punish anyone, it should be himself for not  
>>> conveying the truth in the first place.
>>>  While I am not passing judgment on any one suggestion for 
>>> improvement  of POCA, I do object to HOW things are done, and HOW 
>>> people are being  treated.
>>>  More specifically how people who are not in full agreement with the  
>>> current POCA president are being treated.  Let everyone focus on 
>>> that
>>>> one< issue.  Correct that problem first, otherwise it will taint 
>>>> any
>>>  and all (otherwise possibly good) suggestions for change within POCA.
>>>  With the leak of this document, POCA members and non-members alike 
>>> have  been given insight into just how POCA is currently being run.  
>>> How the  PPM will respond will also be enlightening!
>>>  Sad, quite sad.
>>>  Here is an idea mentioned to me recently, perhaps if POCA wants to  
>>> respond to statements, they could do so, but on their own website, 
>>> and  from their elected Public Relations guy (only), isn't that what 
>>> the PR  job entails?
>>>  (Sorry to poke at Ed Mendez the current POCA PR guy, as he must 
>>> have a  REALLY tough job, being elected to be the official POCA 
>>> voice, but  having less-than-accurate statements made by the current 
>>> POCA president  as IF he is the sole POCA voice.)  What a mess for 
>>> the PR guy to be stuck with...
>>>  Chuck
>>>  _______________________________________________
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> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> 
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