[DeTomaso] POCA

Will Kooiman will.kooiman at gmail.com
Wed Jun 8 18:53:49 EDT 2016


I've said before that I'm leaving POCA when my membership expires -
assuming I still feel the same way in December.

I'm not going to make a dramatic exit.  It's not like I'm selling my car
or anything.  I'm just not going to renew - simple as that.

Reasons:

1.  I don't like the way long-term members are being treated.  They have
put a lot of heart and soul into POCA.  It's shameful how they have been
treated.
2.  I don't like the way Michael treats people that disagree with him.  It
reflects very poorly on POCA, and also on the board since the board lets
him get away with it.
3.  I don't like the discussions the board has in secrecy.  If they are
afraid to make those discussions public, they shouldn't have those
discussions at all.
4.  I don't want to receive mailings that are full of advertising.  I
receive a Porsche magazine and I used to receive one from the Viper Club.
Both go in the trash, usually without being opened.  I'm happy to see ads
from the usual Pantera vendors, but gimme a break - seat covers?
5.  I don't like the push for "you can't do XXX unless you are a fully
paid member".  I'm not suggesting that everything should be free, but it
has gone too far.  There are words for this.  It's called being exclusive
or inclusive.  An inclusive club invites new and existing members to
participate.  An exclusive club says, "We don't want you or need you.  You
can only participate if you give us money."  I know that isn't the intent,
but that's how it is perceived.  So, if there is a new Pantera owner that
is considering joining the club, he can't go to a local club meeting until
he pays $85?  What about the website?  You can't get past door #1 until
you are a fully paid member?
6.  There is no a local chapter near me.  If I were still in Houston, I
would stay in POCA - but only to support the local club.  The national
club does nothing for me.

I know - I said I'm not making a dramatic exit, and then I listed 6
things.  I only listed those things to help POCA deal with their problems.
 If I just left in December, POCA wouldn't know why I left.  I'm not
pissed or upset or anything like that.  I'm disappointed, but that's about
the extent of it.

--
Will





On 6/8/16 5:42 PM, "fastgrandma via DeTomaso"
<detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:

>   WELL SAID, SCOTT!!  THANK YOU!  You got right down to the bare bones of
>   the issue.
>
>   Judy
>   -----Original Message-----
>   From: Scott Couchman via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
>   To: Effie Richards <erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com>
>   Cc: detomaso detomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
>   Sent: Wed, Jun 8, 2016 2:31 pm
>   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA
>   Effie, I don't know what you do or did for a living, but I'm curious if
>   after say 20 years of doing your job, having the respect of all your
>   peers, they suddenly brought someone new in to manage you that treated
>   you like KaKa ( I think that was your word), didn't listen to your
>   recommendations, tried to take away your tools, didn't include you in
>   the meetings to decide how you would do your job, said hateful things
>   to you......and OBTW DIDN'T PAY YOU ANYTHING! How long would you stay
>   in that job? These folks stayed 6 MONTHS!! I think they should get a
>   statue erected in their honor. I don't know you.....hopefully we will
>   get a chance to meet and hear each other's Pantera story, and I agree
>   we need to try to find a way out of the darkness we're in right now,
>   but I don't think it's fair to challenge these two POCA stalwarts to
>   "shift through dislikes and focus on the actual great benefits of this
>   group". Your Pantera Brother :-) > On Jun 8, 2016, at 1:34 PM, Effie
>   Richards <[1]erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com> wrote: > > I like your
>   philosophical response, Chuck! > > Our first known philosophers,
>   Aristoteles, Socrates and Sophocleous, were my ancestors! > The Greek
>   word means "friend (or lover) of wise thoughts" and being Greek,
>   please, please, ignore as much as you don't like and focus on the
>   positive of this website. > > Where else can you find great guys who
>   know the DeTomaso brand so well and love the car so much, they have
>   become experts in its challenging mechanism! Focus on your "friends of
>   wise thoughts" - the Pantera philosophers, their wealth of knowledge
>   and their spirit of sharing such and forget the other stuff. > > I have
>   been a "victim" of bullying, discrimination and other negative actions
>   (as many of us have at times), but I stood strong, proud and determined
>   to learn a new language and culture at 23 and succeed in a business
>   world that was destined for men only at the time. If I had allowed
>   "words" to stop me, I would be nothing now. > > Be a part of the great
>   group of Pantera owners who are your friends and many times mentors.
>   You have more to gain by staying. Be patient, shift though "kaka" and
>   focus on the CAR! > I am amazed how quickly solutions/answers arrive
>   from so many when you have a dilemma or a question about your car,
>   whatever it may be. It is so impressive, isn't it? > > I'm not trying
>   to convince anyone to do something they don't want to do. I am just
>   pointing out that we can all shift through dislikes and focus on to the
>   actual great benefits of this group. > > Respectfully, > Effie Richards
>   > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: DeTomaso
>   [[2]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of
>   [3]cengles at cox.net > Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 12:28 PM > To:
>   [4]steve at snclocks.com > Cc: detomaso detomaso > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso]
>   POCA > > Dear Stephen, > > > > A philosophical response to the
>   question: > "....what POCA does for me.." > > > What the new POCA does
>   for you is to give you more value for your membership and a better
>   membership experience. > > > What the old POCA did with volunteers and
>   > enthusiasts in the days before the internet, was to provide a
>   nationwide > organization that aided and abetted information and
>   experience about the > difficulties and joys of owning a Pantera. The
>   bright eyed amateurs > would type out newsletters and mail them. The
>   newsletters and the > Profiles improved with time, but they both
>   provided a framework for > Pantera owners across the nation to benefit
>   from their fellow members. > Outside of southern California, it was the
>   only therapy for being the > "Lone Ranger" in Enid, Oklahoma, for
>   example. With the incorporation > of the Vegas Rally, a national
>   meeting provided the faces to connect > with the names and the
>   opportunity to socialize and build relationships. > Finally, the old
>   Forum extended that to the internet with the results > that we all are
>   familiar with. > > Currently, the new POCA offers all the high tech >
>   satisfaction of digital cable attainment of various and sundry
>   benefits. > > Historically, the old POCA was the foundation of > the
>   relationships and friendships and Pantera ownership that we have >
>   today. > > > > Philosophically yours, Chuck Engles > > >> On Wed, Jun
>   8, 2016 at 8:51 AM, Stephen wrote: >> >> I believe that Thomas gets to
>   the heart of the issue with the current >> POCA >> leader. There have
>   been a number of times that MS has responded to >> posts I >> put out
>   on there on the previous forum in a way that made me wonder >> why I >>
>   bothered to post at all. It took me a while to distinguish between >>
>   the >> several Mikes that posted on the previous forum - it was the
>   short one >> that >> I figured out first - and I quit reading his
>   responses. Especially >> when I >> realized that he really doesn't know
>   it all, and that his technical >> guidance >> was flawed as often as it
>   was correct. >> >> I know that the short is doing his best to put
>   together his idea of a >> better >> POCA site. And I know it will offer
>   a lot. No doubt. NTL, his >> amazing >> ability to piss folks off with
>   his truly marginal interpersonal skills >> is >> well known, and
>   totally inappropriate for a person in his position. >> POCA is not this
>   forum - and, well, vice versa. 3 years ago, when my >> wife >> and I
>   bought 5332, I likely would have put up with the shorts crap to >> get
>   >> what we needed - as I did in the past. Today - well, 5332 is a dream
>   >> to >> drive, and I have this forum. Tell me again what POCA does for
>   me - >> other >> than to remind me that some folk make terrible
>   leaders? >> >> Stephen Nelson >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From:
>   DeTomaso [[5]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On >>
>   Behalf >> Of Thomas TAP:rnblom >> Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 1:36
>   AM >> To: [6]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com >> Subject: Re:
>   [DeTomaso] POCA >> >> 1) You can't do much about family, love it or
>   hate it. >> >> 2) If you have an issue with a colleague, step away, if
>   it is with >> management, get a new job >> >> 3) If you have an issue
>   with the current leadership in a club you pay >> to be >> part of, then
>   quitting, even temporarily, would at least send a fairly >> strong
>   message that something is wrong, or else the club may not be >> for you
>   >> anymore. >> >> As I've said before, I will likely not renew my POCA
>   membership when >> it is >> due, and if I were ten years younger I
>   would also get a new job. >> >> Life's too short to having to deal with
>   a*holes. >> >> Thomas >> >>> Den 2016-06-08 kl. 08:48, skrev Ed Mendez:
>   >>> Quitting is only going to hurt the club and the people in it who
>   love >>> you. >> We are all family here. Quit because of one person you
>   don't agree >> with? >> Quit because of a family member you don't get
>   along with? If we all >> did that >> none of us would be working in our
>   day jobs, or have a family at all. >>> >>> I assume punch my brother in
>   the face, but he is still my brother and >>> that >> would really piss
>   off my mom. >>> >>> Just saying. >>> >>> Better that maybe we all just
>   step away from the computer screen for >>> a >> while, there's a whole
>   big world out there. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus
>   >>> >>>> On 8/06/2016, at 17:14, Stephen <[7]steve at snclocks.com> wrote:
>   >>>> >>>> Dear GoNancy Haney - I can readily understand your letting go
>   of >>>> your POCA membership - right now the leadership is proving to
>   be >>>> just plain polarizing. Just don't let go of this forum! And,
>   one >>>> day, when hoof in mouth is not so rampant you can perhaps
>   rejoin. >>>> >>>> Stephen Nelson >>>> >>>> -----Original Message-----
>   >>>> From: DeTomaso
>   [[8]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On >>>> Behalf Of
>   [9]gonancy at juno.com >>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 8:38 PM >>>> To:
>   [10]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com >>>> Subject: [DeTomaso] POCA >>>>
>   >>>> Dear Forum, >>>> Even though I've just been a lurker and
>   occasional poster and >>>> spellcheck nazi on the Forum since its
>   inception, I wanted to put it >>>> out to the Pantera Community that I
>   will be letting Judy McCartney >>>> know that I am ending my membership
>   in POCA effective immediately. >>>> That means my associate member, the
>   Profiles Editor, will be leaving >>>> also. Mike has the June issue at
>   the printer's right now. It will be >>>> his >> last issue. >>>> As an
>   aside, Mike couldn't even put his own profile on the POCA >>>> website,
>   even though he's on the BOD, because he's an associate >>>> member, >>
>   not a "true " >>>> member according to whomever it was that he
>   contacted about it. How >>>> do you like that? Makes him sound like a
>   second class citizen. >>>> >>>> It's been a great 25 years, >>>>
>   GoNancy Haney >>>> >>>> P.S. I listened in on the last BOD meeting last
>   week and it was all >>>> I could do to keep my mouth shut. A monumental
>   effort on my part. I >>>> could not believe my ears sometimes at what
>   MS was saying. He is a >>>> real >> piece of work. >>>> >>>>
>   ____________________________________________________________ >>>>
>   Nextiva vFAX >>>> Why Do You Still Have An Old Fax Machine? >>>> >>>>
>   [11]http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5757934166446134075b2st03v
>   uc >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>> >>>>
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>References
>
>   1. mailto:erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com
>   2. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com?
>   3. mailto:cengles at cox.net
>   4. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
>   5. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com?
>   6. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>   7. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
>   8. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com?
>   9. mailto:gonancy at juno.com
>  10. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>  11. 
>http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5757934166446134075b2st03vuc
>  12. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>  13. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>  14. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>  15. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>  16. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>  17. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>  18. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>  19. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>  20. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>  21. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>  22. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>  23. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>  24. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>  25. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>_______________________________________________
>
>
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