[DeTomaso] Laurie's vision of current topics (be warned ... long and tedious)
marshall smith
marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
Fri Jun 3 12:40:09 EDT 2016
Great quote!
Btw....I have oil filters for sale for $165.00.
M
--------------------------------------------
On Fri, 6/3/16, Dave <dave at damardirect.com> wrote:
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Laurie's vision of current topics (be warned ... long and tedious)
To: "msm at portata.com" <msm at portata.com>, "Michael Shortt" <michaelsavga at gmail.com>, "Dick Koch" <redcatman74 at gmail.com>
Cc: "detomaso at server.detomasolist.com" <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>, "detomaso at poca.com" <detomaso at poca.com>, "LaurieFerrari at aol.com" <laurieferrari at aol.com>
Date: Friday, June 3, 2016, 9:14 AM
“The bitterness of poor quality
remains long after the sweetness of low price is
forgotten” – Benjamin Franklin
IndyDave
-----Original Message-----
From: msm at portata.com
[mailto:msm at portata.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2016 3:30 PM
To: Michael Shortt; Dick Koch
Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com;
detomaso at poca.com;
LaurieFerrari at aol.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Laurie's vision of current topics
(be warned ... long and tedious)
Let me clear up some clear up ...
The email-based forum was setup years ago by Any Polling on
a server he owned (realbig.com). This forum is not and
never was a POCA forum. It was always open to
everyone.
After many years, Andy moved on to other things. Asa
Jay stepped up to maintain the forum along with his
volunteer work on the POCA Store which he did for many
years. (A big thanks to Asa Jay and Andy for their
many years of daily work on it.) POCA also stepped up
by contributing hosting services on the poca.com server,
hence the name change from @realbig.com to @poca.com.
We set up a modern web forum on poca.com, but it never got
much traction. Most people prefer getting email
delivery over having to go to a web site. Those that
prefer web sites were already well established on the PI web
forum.
As far as the printer issue -- we have been down that road a
few times over the years with a few different
printers. There is much more to printing than just
putting ink on paper. The printer needs to layout the
pages for printing, assemble the printed pages in the right
order, not lose any pages on any copy, staple/bind, ingest
our mailing address list into their computers, create the
labels, attach labels, and get everything to their local
post office on time.
Much of the work a printer does is not in the ink to paper
step, so much of that work is a fixed cost that does not
change much with print volume. If some members opt for
electronic delivery, there is not that much of a total cost
reduction. Jack and Mike have run the numbers with
various printers. They may be able to add some
details.
As with everything else in life, a high price does not
guarantee good production/service, but a low price usually
does lead to problems.
------ Original Message ------
From: "Michael Shortt" <michaelsavga at gmail.com>
To: "Dick Koch" <redcatman74 at gmail.com>
Cc: "detomaso at server.detomasolist.com"
<detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>;
"detomaso at poca.com"
<detomaso at poca.com>;
"LaurieFerrari at aol.com"
<laurieferrari at aol.com>
Sent: 5/31/2016 8:21:55 AM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Laurie's vision of current topics
(be warned ...
long and tedious)
>Thank you Dick for your thoughts,
>
>Let me clear up a misconception that refuses to die.
>
>The former email forum had been changed from
@realbig.com to @poca.com
>
>at some some in the not too distant past.
>
>The new website is hosted and uses a base programming
supplied by
>ClubExpress,
>
>this is software, security, et al that we could never
afford as a stand
>alone club,
>
>not for 5,000, 10,000 or even 20,000.
>
>The website is not really located at www.poca.com, it
lives at
>poca.clubexpress.com
>
>and www.poca.com merely points to
it. Think of the website as
>property,
>
>it is a fixed thing at a fixed place, it is THERE,
think of poca.com
>as a
>street sign that says
>
>poca.com, one can always go into a neighborhood
and move all the
>street
>signs around
>
>124 Pine street can become 123 Alpine street overnight,
but the house
>is
>still where it always was.
>
>The email forum is not compatible with ClubExpress for
lots of reasons,
>software, etc.
>
>The street sign can only point to one place, thus it
points to the
>website.
>
>and not the email forum.
>
>Had the powers that be had left the email forum namen
@realbig.com,
>this
>would never have been an issue.
>
>
>That's first and foremost why the email forum had to go
away.
>
>If anybody owes the old email forum a debt of gratitude,
it would be
>me,
>for after I left the club years ago,
>
>it was my only contact with Pantera owners.
>
>It was how everybody knew me and I seriously doubt that
without being
>one
>of the top ten contributors
>
>for the last 7 years that I would have had the name
recognition to be
>elected President.
>
>Now having also said that, let me also say that the
email forum was not
>a
>friend to POCA, it was and remains
>
>a place of petty bickering, name calling and ignorance
put forth by a
>few
>that makes the whole look bad.
>
>It always has attracted loudmouths and bullies and
membership in the
>club
>suffered as a result.
>
>It was like have Cousin Eddie be the welcoming committee
at the Country
>Club, after meeting him,
>
>very few people decided to venture inside.
>
>Cut to the present, with our name off the email forum,
membership is
>growing at a rate the club has not seen
>
>in decades.
>
>The new website has a better forum that is everything
the old one was
>not,
>nor could it ever be.
>
>All it needs is to be used by members, the email forum
in its last week
>as
>poca.com had 27 users,
>
>more than half were non members, those that were members
represented
>less
>than 2% of POCA's membership.
>
>New members in the last three weeks are 3x those members
alone.
>
>It was a solid decision, it was a necessary decision,
for the new
>website
>would not exist if the email forum still did.
>
>While it was picked up by somebody, even that was not
done as agreed,
>the
>club honored it word and provided
>
>what was agreed upon, the new email list admin did not
honor the
>agreement
>for its adoption.
>
>POCA is far better off without that forum in every
measurable way,
>membership and civility being the most important.
>
>Michael Shortt
>
>
>
>
>On Tue, May 31, 2016 at 9:55 AM, Dick Koch <redcatman74 at gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>> Mike, nice to see you stepping up and getting
ahead of this, with
>>some
>> good suggestions on how to improve the
raffle.
>>
>> This is a case in point, where the savings
that could be had if the
>> newsletter did not have to be printed and
mailed, part of those
>>savings
>> could be used to fund some of the more
expensive raffle items you
>> mentioned.
>>
>> Also, with the elimination of the newsletter
printing and mailing
>>expense,
>> color graphics could be included at no
expense to the club, improving
>>that
>> publication content and readibility.
>>
>> In addition, rather than thinking of raising
the POCA membership fee,
>>the
>> savings would allow the club to reduce the
membership fee, while
>>offering
>> an overall better product to it's customers,
the POCA members..
>>
>> In my opinion, for what it is worth, the
trade off on discontinuing
>>the
>> printing and mailing of the newsletter versus
an improved, more
>>timely, and
>> more efficient online delivery of the
publication is obvious.
>>
>> The net affect, following the old business
marketing axiom of the
>>price
>> elasticity of demand, would be to set the
stage for POCA to attract
>>more
>> members, with the obvious affect of
increasing the membership,
>>thereby
>> increasing revenue to continue to provide
more value add to the
>>membership
>> as a whole, and spreading the "gospel" of the
DeTomaso brand.
>>
>> One thing I believe is that underneath all
the comments made about
>>the
>> direction the board is taking the club, is
that everyone wants to
>>improve
>> the club, what it offers it's members,
and expand the uniqueness the
>> DeTomaso brand.
>>
>> Make no mistake, I have not agreed with
certain aspects of the
>>board's
>> plans, more specifically discontinuing this
email forum. I
>>communicated
>> that to the board and told them dropping
ownership and support for
>>the
>> forum was a mistake.
>>
>> As in the case of "market demand" and the
generous efforts of some
>>very
>> dedicated Pantera brethren, the forum was
reconstituted. Who knows,
>>maybe
>> the club will decide in the future it should
be included under it's
>>banner.
>>
>> However, dropping this forum did not sway me
from supporting the
>>board's
>> overall plan to improve the POCA membership
experience.
>>
>> Given the premise that everyone wants their
club to improve that
>> experience, there comes a time to put aside
one's personnel
>>preferences,
>> and to look at "the big picture" and what is
in the best interest of
>>the
>> club and the DeTomaso brand.
>>
>> As before, peace to all my cat brethren, and
a closing thought from
>> Abraham Lincoln:
>>
>> "We can complain because rose bushes have
thorns, or rejoice because
>>thorn
>> bushes have roses."
>>
>> Dick koch - Atlanta
>>
>> On May 30, 2016 9:41 PM, "Mike Burnett via
DeTomaso" <
>> detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
wrote:
>>
>>> Good evening ladies and
everyone else on the forum, I would like
>>>to
>>> express some thoughts
about the
>>>
>>> raffle during this past
Fun Rally.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> As Vice President of
POCA it is my responsibility to do many
>>>things as
>>> a Board member, but
also be
>>>
>>> the Raffle Master at
the Fun Rally.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In reply to Laurie and
Effie's postings, I agree that the raffle
>>>has
>>> considerable room for
improvement. And even though
>>>
>>> this was my first POCA
Raffle, I have been apart of many Car
>>>Shows and
>>> other big motor car
related events that
>>>
>>> included a raffle, but
didn't want to reinvent the proverbial
>>>wheel by
>>> changing anything about
the way past POCA raffles have been run.
>>>As it
>>> turns out, there were
quite a few things that could have helped
>>>make it
>>> run smoother.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On the one hand I am
proud that through my efforts in dealing
>>>with our
>>> vendors and my wife
Chrissy
>>>
>>> spending four months
hitting crafts fairs and sales ( her budget
>>>from
>>> POCA was challenging)
and through
>>>
>>> the generosity of our
vendors and many others, we were able to
>>>have
>>> almost $9,000.00 worth
of raffle prizes.
>>>
>>> Unfortunately, if you
were there, not many of the prizes were
>>>bigger
>>> ticket in value,
instead averaging $25.00
>>>
>>> to $40.00 including
over 40 T-shirts on top of that. We did have
>>>a
>>> good showing of bigger
value items in the $200.00 to $530.00
>>>
>>> valuations.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Even with a strong
showing of raffle prizes and with lots of help
>>>from
>>> Chrissy, Joe Stockstt (
our POCA Secretary)
>>>
>>> Ed Mendez ( our POCA PR
and Advertising lead) and even Michael
>>>Shortt (
>>> our POCA President) and
myself, the raffle
>>>
>>> went almost an hour and
a half in a hot room (no air
>>>conditioning)
>>> after a full day,
banquet and cocktails.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In spite of all our
efforts to move things along....I'm sure it
>>>seemed
>>> like the raffle that
would never end!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So, I will present a
new plan for the Fun Rally Raffle to the
>>>POCA
>>> Board at our July
meeting. It will include
>>>
>>> having a general raffle
where tickets will be drawn hourly all
>>>day
>>> Saturday with winning
numbers posted.
>>>
>>> Proposing to the Board
that we use seed money from POCA to
>>>purchase not
>>> only some big ticket
>>>
>>> prizes ( TV, Blu-ray
player and maybe a trip to harbor freight
>>>for
>>> useful tools gauges,
etc. that we all could use) but
>>>
>>> maybe some other items
of interest like gift cards ( of real
>>>value) or
>>> even plane tickets???
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Who knows, it is all on
the table and I am asking for all of you
>>>to
>>> give me some input with
your ideas.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Mike Burnett
>>>
>>> VP POCA
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original
Message-----
>>> From: Effie Richards
<erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com>
>>> To: laurieferrari [1]laurieferrari at aol.com
who
>>> Cc: detomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>;
detomaso
>>> <detomaso at poca.com>
>>> Sent: Mon, May 30, 2016
5:21 pm
>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso]
Laurie's vision of current topics (be
>>>warned
>>> ... long and tedious)
>>> Thank you so much for
saying it so eloquently! Laurie's point of
>>>you is
>>> well laid out and she
is a Pantera owner for years and years and
>>>a
>>> member of POCA for the
same!
>>> I would like to agree
with her proposed method of awarding the
>>>prizes
>>> as well. Other car
shows do it the same way by posting winners
>>>ticket
>>> numbers and no one
falls asleep. My husband ushered me out of the
>>>room
>>> halfway through.
Although Mike Burnett had a great sense of humor
>>>while
>>> presenting the awards,
after an hour or so, Robert could no
>>>longer stay
>>> awake.
>>> The food was not good,
I agree, but that's not the organizers'
>>>fault,
>>> they did the best they
could to give all all of us a good time.
>>> I would like to suggest
that we have better organized run events
>>>next
>>> year, with maps, a
front leader, a middle leader and a tail
>>>leader for
>>> those who were not able
to make the traffic lights, like we
>>>offered
>>> when we hosted in San
Diego 2 years ago.
>>> I think we all learned
things from this experience and
>>>
corrections/improvements will be made for
next year's rally.
>>> No matter what, I hope
to see mailings of the Profiles since my
>>>husband
>>> and others maybe, don't
do email.
>>> Always remaining
members of our POCA club, always!
>>> Sent from Effie's iPad
>>> > On May 30, 2016,
at 2:14 AM, Laurie Ferrari via DeTomaso
>>> <[2]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Hello out there in
Pantera Email Forum Land. Huge thanks to
>>>Kurt as I
>>> > am another who has
always loved our communication in this way.
>>> > For anyone who
might be confused, just to be clear, I'm Laurie
>>> Basile/
>>> > aka Laurie Ferrari
on here as that's my email name. I'm one in
>>>the
>>> > same in case you
are looking up any of my old postings in the
>>> archives,
>>> > which I don't
advise.
>>> > I have some of my
own thoughts on the new status of POCA.
>>> > While there's no
question that a stock, unmodified, unmolested
>>> Pantera
>>> > is a rare and
specially revered item, however the Pantera Club
>>>(POCA)
>>> > and its Website is
not to be confused with that same logic. The
>>>Club
>>> > has needed
modifications for far too long, most notably
>>> reconsideration
>>> > of modernization
and efforts to offer more to the members, and
>>>the
>>> > opening of paths
that were forever encumbered with roadblocks.
>>> > I think the main
beef of the many members/lurkers who have been
>>> > complaining of
late is due to the possible loss of the email
>>>forum.
>>> > Yes? Or, some
perhaps are not used to the no nonsense,
>>>energetic,
>>> > assertive,
personality of Michael Shortt. Well, as board
>>>meetings
>>> have
>>> > been open to
members I must say I was truly shocked at the rude
>>>and
>>> > unprofessional
demeanor of some of the oldest of Board Members.
>>>And
>>> > those on here who
are seeking fault and trying to paint a
>>>negative
>>> > picture of the new
direction of POCA, I say, if any of you are
>>> > so touchy and
hypersensitive, you'd not have been able to
>>>tolerate
>>> the
>>> > myriads of posted
comments through the years that could be
>>>considered
>>> > the most non
politically correct on here and greatest examples
>>>of
>>> > taunts and tongue
in cheek comments on everything from gayness,
>>>to
>>> > racial and
political insults, or the worst (personally
>>>offensive) the
>>> > wing modifications
on GT5 Panteras. ... Come on folks. What I
>>>see
>>> > that is happening
is that Mike Shortt's vision and those of the
>>> > progressive Board
members is one that many have begged for.
>>>That
>>> being
>>> > one of a more
professionally represented, respectable club
>>>(except
>>> for
>>> > our more private,
less respectable ramblings on here) one
>>>that's more
>>> > of a Class Act
rather than a knitting party, and more
>>>representative
>>> of
>>> > the rarity and
beauty of our cars, the wealth of knowledge
>>> > and expertise of
our members, and the generosity, helpfulness,
>>>and
>>> > camaraderie of our
people. I'd say Michael sees and is
>>>enacting,
>>> > remember....with
Board and Chapter Representative approval, a
>>>vision
>>> of
>>> > the possibilities
and potential of our organization to be more
>>> > transparent as to
the inner workings of major POCA decisions.
>>>Those
>>> in
>>> > the know can not
argue about the fact that this has been
>>>something
>>> > sorely lacking in
the past with regard to political issues,
>>>election
>>> > fairness, and
finances, i.e. comparative shopping for our
>>>needs,
>>> > insurance,
printing and so on.
>>> > For the few to
make suggestions or even comments that Mr.
>>>Shortt is a
>>> > bigot or the usual
gay comments from the peanut gallery....
>>>shame
>>> > on you! Those
comments are just as untrue and inappropriate as
>>> they've
>>> > ever been on here.
But we grin and bare it and realize any such
>>>past
>>> > comments would
never be posted if serious. Or those who make
>>>such
>>> > comments can look
up the definition of "Psychological
>>>transference."
>>> I
>>> > personally think a
"Thank You" is far more appropriate for all
>>>the
>>> > time, effort, and
changes Michael is trying to implement! When
>>>the
>>> word
>>> > went out that
races were wanted at the Fun Rally, the first
>>>thing I
>>> > recall he did was
make contact and plans for such. It's
>>>ridiculous
>>> and
>>> > unacceptable for
anyone to be rude and insulting to those doing
>>>their
>>> > best to help us
have a better organization.
>>> > I recently renewed
my membership which I feel would be great if
>>>it
>>> was
>>> > reduced a bit in
cost (as it used to be) as I'd like the option
>>>to
>>> get
>>> > only the "Profiles
Magazine" in print form.. the Newsletter is
>>> > perfectly suited
for an online reference... (again, my opinion)
>>>and
>>> > which I seem to
hear would save the club something like $26,000
>>>a
>>> > year. On our new
POCA Website I am able to look up old articles
>>>in
>>> > Profiles...
especially enjoy the ease of being able to find
>>>ones
>>> about
>>> > my car and me,
issue 2010 #1, and my SSCC synopsis, in 2000,
>>>#3.
>>> That's
>>> > a whole lot easier
than searching my own computer room and
>>>closet
>>> > filled with years
old multi-curricular lesson plans and old
>>> > publications from
POCA, and three other car clubs. I really
>>>love the
>>> > idea of these
publications being available ON LINE; it is quite
>>> modern
>>> > and convenient.
>>> > Insofar as the
survey regarding POCA's Fun Rally...As always
>>>there
>>> were
>>> > goods and not so
goods. The good, naturally, is getting to see
>>>and
>>> > socialize with old
friends and meet new ones. The bad is that
>>>the
>>> Plaza
>>> > remains to be, not
the most appealing of choices. I don't know
>>>about
>>> > the new
furnishings but I do know that the entire floor where
>>>the
>>> > hospitality and
banquet was held was covered in sheets over the
>>> > construction and
warnings of potential injury....I kind of felt
>>>early
>>> > on that it'd be a
good idea, as a few others, to opt to stay at
>>>the
>>> > Golden Nugget.
It's right across the street and very nice! As
>>>usual
>>> > though, at our
event, the hospitality room opportunity with all
>>>the
>>> > Club stores was
and is always great. The sessions, especially
>>>Scott
>>> > Mead's photography
session was more than excellent. The run to
>>>Mt.
>>> > Charles was
beautiful. I didn't have a car there so I was so
>>>grateful
>>> > to Lori Drew who
hooked me up with a ride with a super nice
>>>fellow
>>> from
>>> > PCNC, Bayani; many
thanks Bayani! The banquet food was
>>>something I'm
>>> > unable to compare
easily as to the awfulness compared to any
>>>past Fun
>>> > Rally. The Plaza
buffets were generally decent in the past,
>>>even used
>>> > to get a bottle of
red and white wine on each table, but
>>>something
>>> > definitely went
amiss this year. As I was seated at a table
>>>with
>>> Terry
>>> > Himes (Mars' space
scientist) and friends, the best way to
>>>describe
>>> the
>>> > salmon was freeze
dried and suitable (almost) as astronaut
>>>food. The
>>> > water was
undrinkable, maybe tainted with some alien creatures,
>>>toxic
>>> > chemicals, or
poisoned purposefully so people would buy liquor
>>>during
>>> > the banquet.
Dessert, can't comment, didn't try. The raffle...
>>>well
>>> > that's yet another
story! I've been the one in the past who
>>>once had
>>> > the job of
recruiting prizes for months, organizing the
>>>displays,
>>> > getting everything
to Vegas, and then announcing the prizes at
>>> > the dinner and I
vividly recall being reprimanded for how long
>>>it
>>> took
>>> > to disseminate
prizes at the banquet ... BUT...in good fairness
>>>to
>>> me,
>>> > i took a fraction
of what happened this year.. which was in
>>>ponderous
>>> > tortoise-like,
multi-hours long, motion, so much to the fact
>>>that I
>>> > literally made up
for the previous two nights of lost sleep. I
>>>mean
>>> > really, for
hundreds of prizes from a few really nice car
>>>related,
>>> > down to
insignificant, and each prize announced in humorous but
>>> mostly
>>> > painful detail ...
down to a slew of t-shirts, one by one...
>>>and then
>>> > waiting for the
comatose winner to notice or be nudged awake
>>>that he
>>> or
>>> > she'd won and then
have to walk what seemed like 3 blocks to
>>>the
>>> podium
>>> > to claim the
prize... Good Lord! And I don't blame the
>>>presenter as I
>>> > know what a
difficult and commendable job this is.. it's the
>>>SYSTEM,
>>> > not the person! I
know many of you like to poke fun at the
>>>Corvette
>>> > Clan but .... the
way they've done raffles, at least the
>>>National
>>> > ones, is to post a
list of winning tickets #s and during the
>>>event,
>>> > people go over
periodically to see if they won, and get the
>>>prize
>>> from
>>> > those in charge.
Or those so inclined can stay at the prize
>>>area and
>>> > watch the tickets
being drawn. All the contributors are posted
>>>in
>>> > advance and the
donors are thanked and acknowledged on banners,
>>> signs,
>>> > visuals, business
cards, etc. There's always music and dancing
>>>and
>>> > some sort of
entertainment. We used to have music, karaoke, and
>>> > entertainment.
What happened???
>>> > So in conclusion,
I like both the old (forum) and the new
>>>(POCA) and
>>> > hope that people
will be more cordial and appreciative of the
>>>efforts
>>> > of Michael and
those who work for us.
>>> > Again much
gratitude to Kurt and all involved for the Forum
>>>being
>>> alive
>>> > and well. I am not
in favor of the fact though that I very
>>>recently
>>> > got a malicious
malware bug that caused me to wipe out my
>>> > entire computer...
and start over, not saying it was from
>>>here.. BUT
>>> > I've never had
that problem before and I did have an excellent
>>> Internet
>>> > security program
installed. So I write with hopes that the
>>>risks are
>>> > not found here!
>>> > Can't leave
without a big hello to Nathan of the North. Always
>>> > great to hear from
you and see your uplifting greetings. And to
>>>Bob
>>> > Levitt...hope you
remember me as I was out there on the Santa
>>>Monica
>>> > pier to take
pictures of you and your son upon your take
>>> > off for the
Gumball Cross Country race way back when. Still
>>>have them
>>> > saved somewhere
and they were on my former POCA album. Btw
>>>where are
>>> > those albums?
>>> > OK.... off and
running and just might see lots of you at
>>>Pantera
>>> > Palooza!
>>> > Cheerio,
>>> > Laurie
>>> >
_______________________________________________
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Detomaso Forum NO
LONGER Managed by POCA
>>> > Posted emails must
not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>>> > DeTomaso mailing
list
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>>> > [4]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>> >
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>>
>
>
>--
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Michael L. Shortt
>Savannah, Georgia
>www.michaelshortt.com
>michael at michaelshortt.com
>912-232-9390
>
>
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