[DeTomaso] POCA Membership Dues Analysis

Ed Mendez edducati at mac.com
Thu Jun 2 20:16:26 EDT 2016


Again I am saying this forum should not be used for club business. But here we go.

Nobody said we are changing printers, period. As you stated below. That is simply not true.

Michael said he found a printer that was $8000 per year cheaper, everyone is welcome to get competing quotes including from the current printer. As far as I know no competing quotes were received. We are simply trying to save the club money.

Another fact is, changing printers was completely out of the question with you in the presidents breakfast regardless of cost. I remember you said "we are not changing printers". Also someone refused to even give Michael the contact details of the current printer, why?

Why would you not want to save the club money?

No one is being childish. It's a business and yes also a club.

Kind regards,

Ed





Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus

> On 3/06/2016, at 11:04, fastgrandma <fastgrandma at aol.com> wrote:
> 
> Looking for a new printer does need to be done by those who can do so with experience and also those who have to deal with the printer on a month to month basis. That was not done in this case so THAT was irresponsible plus just suddenly telling the two editors that we were changing printers was not acceptable. This like nearly every 'suggestion' thus made this year has been with only one mind behind them; quite like a very spoiled child. Its been a big disappointment in a couple of board members to just follow along like grade school kids; quite frankly I thought our club was mainly adults but unfortunately not so. 
> 
> This is a club, NOT a dictatorship!!
> 
> Judy
> As far as looking at the printer used for the production of the
> newsletter, for the board to not look for less expensive options, as
> with any other expense, with better offerings, is irresponsible.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dick Koch <redcatman74 at gmail.com>
> To: Ed Mendez <edducati at mac.com>
> Cc: detomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Sent: Sun, May 29, 2016 9:57 am
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Membership Dues Analysis
> 
> Ed, thanks for the clarification of the misinformation and
> non-productive comments that have been made in recent weeks, many very
> personal and vindictive, and quite frankly detrimental to the club.
> 
> It is good to have different points of view on club business. But to
> present one's point of view in a negative and personalA manner, does
> nothing but diminish that person's potentially valued point, and their
> persona in the eyes of others.
> 
> From some of the comments made, it appears obvious to me that many of
> the detractors do not have much experience in running a business. And
> make no mistake POCA is a business, albeit a non-profit one. To thrive,
> this club must not stand on it's laurels, but continue to enhance it's
> value add to it's customers.
> 
> As far as looking at the printer used for the production of the
> newsletter, for the board to not look for less expensive options, as
> with any other expense, with better offerings, is irresponsible.
> 
> I can only wonder what is going on behind the scenes that would have
> folks want to stay with a service provider that is noncompetitive and
> provides less for much more money.A We have enough cronyism in our
> government. Hopefully that is not the case here, and there has been a
> reason for keeping a more expensive service that provides less.
> 
> I won't bother to comment on the absurdity of continuing to mail the
> newsletter, that can be printed by anyoneA that is not to lazy to take
> 3 minutes to print it, since that may be construed as negative.
> 
> As regards to a point Ed stated, the club is not run by one person.A
> Each person on the board has a say, with a majority required to decide
> on every issue. Pointing ones frustration at one person is just that,
> pointless.
> 
> Items approved by the board, were "sold" to the board by a member of
> the board to the other members of the board, showing how approving that
> item would benefit the club member's experience, with the underlying
> financial implications outlined that would strengthen the clubs long
> term financial health.
> 
> Constructive criticism is just that: criticism presented in a
> constructive manner, with negative comments of a personal nature
> irrelevant and therefore non-constructive.
> 
> I for one think the new POCA board is doing a fantastic job, and to
> think they are doing their job for free. What a deal...
> 
> By the way, if someone feels they want to get personal with their
> comments, take it out on me.A I deserve it for letting 6831 sit idle
> with a blown header gasket for years.
> 
> Peace, fellow "cat" owners.
> 
> Dick Koch - Atlanta
> Still one of the few remaining original Pantera owners still lucky
> enough to be on the sunny side of the grass.
> 
> On May 29, 2016 2:12 AM, "Ed Mendez" <[1]edducati at mac.com> wrote:
> 
> See below.
> > On 28/05/2016, at 11:53, Rod Kunishige <[2]rkunishige at hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >A It is interesting that this President changed a generous grace
> period
> >A without notice.
> False it's in the bylaws and has been for some time now. Warning at
> 30 days, at 60 days the membership expires, check the Fiat club,
> Ferrari club, Porsche club, they all have similar rules.
> >
> >A The so-called "shortfall" is created in part by the $10
> increased
> >A rebate to the chapters that was NOT requested in the first
> place.A The
> >A return of this sum places the club at nearly breakeven.A
> Simply, use
> >A the money to pay for our publication costs.
> False - check your facts, the rebate was welcome by the majority
> chapter presidents.
> >A PROPOSED:A $75 dues less $15 to chapters yields $60 to fund the
> $62.52
> >A publication estimate per MS.
> That is true, and that is why we are trying to get competitive
> quotes for printing to try and save money. MS found a printer that
> is $8000 per year cheaper than the one we are currently using.
> >
> >A Our $100,000 reserve would easily fund the $2.52 per year.A
> Carrying
> >A 853 members at $2.52 is $2,149.56 per year.A Divide that into
> 100,000
> >A means funding covers 46.5 YEARS.
> False - check your facts, most non profits have two year reserve in
> the bank, the Ferrari and Porsche clubs have $1,000,000 each in
> reserve. You can google there income statements.
> >A OPINION:
> >
> >A I do recognize that Mr. Shortt controls the Board by a 5 to 4
> vote but
> >A there I think that this is a better solution than what MS has
> >A proposed.A Finally, kudos goes to him for at least publishing
> the
> >A actions he intends to take so we may make positive suggestions
> for
> False, if you look at the meeting minutes of the BOD, most things we
> have coated on have been either unanimous vote or close to it, in
> fact there very few times it was 5-4. Again we vote in the best
> interest of the club
> This forum is supposed to be about DeTomaso, hence the name; and
> should not be used for POCA bashing, it really makes us all look
> bad. If you have an issue talk with someone about your concern,
> preferably your chapter president, they are your representative as
> in any organization. It's very easy to simply pick up the phone
> instead of using this email list as a podium for your disdain of MS.
> It's obvious, we get it. Please take it offline.
> If you think you can do a better job than volunteer as I did, and
> many others before me, and run for office.
> Kind regards
> >A (Information taken from the Presidents Blog.)
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
> > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
> > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > [3]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > [4]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >
> > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
> etc.) use the links above.
> >
> > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
> any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
> the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
> archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [5]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> [6]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
> etc.) use the links above.
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
> any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
> the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
> archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
> 
> References
> 
> 1. mailto:edducati at mac.com
> 2. mailto:rkunishige at hotmail.com
> 3. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 4. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 5. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 6. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> _______________________________________________
> 
> 
> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
> 
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
-------------- next part --------------
   Again I am saying this forum should not be used for club business. But
   here we go.

   Nobody said we are changing printers, period. As you stated below. That
   is simply not true.

   Michael said he found a printer that was $8000 per year cheaper,
   everyone is welcome to get competing quotes including from the current
   printer. As far as I know no competing quotes were received. We are
   simply trying to save the club money.

   Another fact is, changing printers was completely out of the question
   with you in the presidents breakfast regardless of cost. I remember you
   said "we are not changing printers". Also someone refused to even give
   Michael the contact details of the current printer, why?

   Why would you not want to save the club money?

   No one is being childish. It's a business and yes also a club.

   Kind regards,

   Ed

   Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus

   On 3/06/2016, at 11:04, fastgrandma <[1]fastgrandma at aol.com> wrote:

   Looking for a new printer does need to be done by those who can do so
   with experience and also those who have to deal with the printer on a
   month to month basis. That was not done in this case so THAT was
   irresponsible plus just suddenly telling the two editors that we were
   changing printers was not acceptable. This like nearly every
   'suggestion' thus made this year has been with only one mind behind
   them; quite like a very spoiled child. Its been a big disappointment in
   a couple of board members to just follow along like grade school kids;
   quite frankly I thought our club was mainly adults but unfortunately
   not so.
   This is a club, NOT a dictatorship!!
   Judy

     As far as looking at the printer used for the production of the
     newsletter, for the board to not look for less expensive options, as
     with any other expense, with better offerings, is irresponsible.

   -----Original Message-----
   From: Dick Koch <[2]redcatman74 at gmail.com>
   To: Ed Mendez <[3]edducati at mac.com>
   Cc: detomaso <[4]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
   Sent: Sun, May 29, 2016 9:57 am
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Membership Dues Analysis
   Ed, thanks for the clarification of the misinformation and
   non-productive comments that have been made in recent weeks, many very
   personal and vindictive, and quite frankly detrimental to the club.
   It is good to have different points of view on club business. But to
   present one's point of view in a negative and personalA manner, does
   nothing but diminish that person's potentially valued point, and their
   persona in the eyes of others.
   From some of the comments made, it appears obvious to me that many of
   the detractors do not have much experience in running a business. And
   make no mistake POCA is a business, albeit a non-profit one. To thrive,
   this club must not stand on it's laurels, but continue to enhance it's
   value add to it's customers.
   As far as looking at the printer used for the production of the
   newsletter, for the board to not look for less expensive options, as
   with any other expense, with better offerings, is irresponsible.
   I can only wonder what is going on behind the scenes that would have
   folks want to stay with a service provider that is noncompetitive and
   provides less for much more money.A We have enough cronyism in our
   government. Hopefully that is not the case here, and there has been a
   reason for keeping a more expensive service that provides less.
   I won't bother to comment on the absurdity of continuing to mail the
   newsletter, that can be printed by anyoneA that is not to lazy to take
   3 minutes to print it, since that may be construed as negative.
   As regards to a point Ed stated, the club is not run by one person.A
   Each person on the board has a say, with a majority required to decide
   on every issue. Pointing ones frustration at one person is just that,
   pointless.
   Items approved by the board, were "sold" to the board by a member of
   the board to the other members of the board, showing how approving that
   item would benefit the club member's experience, with the underlying
   financial implications outlined that would strengthen the clubs long
   term financial health.
   Constructive criticism is just that: criticism presented in a
   constructive manner, with negative comments of a personal nature
   irrelevant and therefore non-constructive.
   I for one think the new POCA board is doing a fantastic job, and to
   think they are doing their job for free. What a deal...
   By the way, if someone feels they want to get personal with their
   comments, take it out on me.A I deserve it for letting 6831 sit idle
   with a blown header gasket for years.
   Peace, fellow "cat" owners.
   Dick Koch - Atlanta
   Still one of the few remaining original Pantera owners still lucky
   enough to be on the sunny side of the grass.
   On May 29, 2016 2:12 AM, "Ed Mendez" <[1][5]edducati at mac.com> wrote:
   See below.
   > On 28/05/2016, at 11:53, Rod Kunishige <[2][6]rkunishige at hotmail.com>
   wrote:
   >
   >A It is interesting that this President changed a generous grace
   period
   >A without notice.
   False it's in the bylaws and has been for some time now. Warning at
   30 days, at 60 days the membership expires, check the Fiat club,
   Ferrari club, Porsche club, they all have similar rules.
   >
   >A The so-called "shortfall" is created in part by the $10
   increased
   >A rebate to the chapters that was NOT requested in the first
   place.A The
   >A return of this sum places the club at nearly breakeven.A
   Simply, use
   >A the money to pay for our publication costs.
   False - check your facts, the rebate was welcome by the majority
   chapter presidents.
   >A PROPOSED:A $75 dues less $15 to chapters yields $60 to fund the
   $62.52
   >A publication estimate per MS.
   That is true, and that is why we are trying to get competitive
   quotes for printing to try and save money. MS found a printer that
   is $8000 per year cheaper than the one we are currently using.
   >
   >A Our $100,000 reserve would easily fund the $2.52 per year.A
   Carrying
   >A 853 members at $2.52 is $2,149.56 per year.A Divide that into
   100,000
   >A means funding covers 46.5 YEARS.
   False - check your facts, most non profits have two year reserve in
   the bank, the Ferrari and Porsche clubs have $1,000,000 each in
   reserve. You can google there income statements.
   >A OPINION:
   >
   >A I do recognize that Mr. Shortt controls the Board by a 5 to 4
   vote but
   >A there I think that this is a better solution than what MS has
   >A proposed.A Finally, kudos goes to him for at least publishing
   the
   >A actions he intends to take so we may make positive suggestions
   for
   False, if you look at the meeting minutes of the BOD, most things we
   have coated on have been either unanimous vote or close to it, in
   fact there very few times it was 5-4. Again we vote in the best
   interest of the club
   This forum is supposed to be about DeTomaso, hence the name; and
   should not be used for POCA bashing, it really makes us all look
   bad. If you have an issue talk with someone about your concern,
   preferably your chapter president, they are your representative as
   in any organization. It's very easy to simply pick up the phone
   instead of using this email list as a podium for your disdain of MS.
   It's obvious, we get it. Please take it offline.
   If you think you can do a better job than volunteer as I did, and
   many others before me, and run for office.
   Kind regards
   >A (Information taken from the Presidents Blog.)
   > _______________________________________________
   >
   >
   > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
   > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
   > DeTomaso mailing list
   > [3][7]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   > [4][8]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
   >
   > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
   etc.) use the links above.
   >
   > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
   any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
   the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
   archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
   _______________________________________________
   Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
   Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
   DeTomaso mailing list
   [5][9]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   [6][10]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
   To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
   etc.) use the links above.
   Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
   any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
   the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
   archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
   References
   1. [11]mailto:edducati at mac.com
   2. [12]mailto:rkunishige at hotmail.com
   3. [13]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   4. [14]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
   5. [15]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   6. [16]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
   _______________________________________________
   Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
   Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
   DeTomaso mailing list
   [17]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   [18]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
   To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
   use the links above.
   Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
   message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
   list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
   or approve the archiving of list messages.

References

   1. mailto:fastgrandma at aol.com
   2. mailto:redcatman74 at gmail.com
   3. mailto:edducati at mac.com
   4. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   5. mailto:edducati at mac.com
   6. mailto:rkunishige at hotmail.com
   7. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   8. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
   9. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  10. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  11. mailto:edducati at mac.com?
  12. mailto:rkunishige at hotmail.com?
  13. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com?
  14. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  15. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com?
  16. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  17. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  18. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso


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