[DeTomaso] Which axles on which side?
Guido deTomaso
guido_detomaso at prodigy.net
Wed Jun 1 18:34:43 EDT 2016
Yeah, I mixed up left and right didn't I ? Despite what I thought was ample proofreading. Should have stuck with driver and pax.
Was there ever any definitive word on which sides the Pantera axles belong? It had to be a considerable expense to make them handed. I just don't a self-tightening effect at work there ... owners can testify they don't stay tight also !
GD
From: Tomas Gunnarsson <guson at home.se>
To: guido_detomaso at prodigy.net
Cc: MikeLDrew at aol.com; detomaso at detomasolist.com
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2016 11:47 PM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Which axles on which side?
You have me a little confused here with "RH thread on the right/driver side and a LH thread on the left/pax side# :-D Tomas
<-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
| | | From: Guido deTomaso [guido_detomaso at prodigy.net]
Sent: 29/5/2016 10:38:21 PM
To: guson at home.se;MikeLDrew at aol.com
Cc: detomaso at detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Which axles on which side?
"I'm pretty sure it's the other way around. Left side of the car, RH
thread."
Don't go all Jack DeRyke on me, lest I put a video on YouTube, I've got the VW hardware at my fingertips. Visualize the front wheel bearing following the wheel on the left side of the car viewed from the rear, a LH thread tightens if the nut follows the wheel and spinning bearing.
This would only come into play only after successive prior failures, that was the analogy to the axle nut.
Similarly I believe the handed Pantera axle nut would only serve a purpose if the spline were to fail and the drive flange spun about the axle, that would tighten the axle nut on both sides if there's a RH thread on the right/driver side and a LH thread on the left/pax side.
I do not believe there is any self-tightening effect at work on the Pantera axle nut(s), but am open to other ideas ( not momentum )
Thanks,
GD
From: Tomas Gunnarsson <guson at home.se>
To: MikeLDrew at aol.com
Cc: detomaso at detomasolist.com
Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2016 3:01 PM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Which axles on which side?
I should have said: My bad, I didn't follow the thread from the start
and replied to an off subject piece of info.
Tomas
I was replying to Guidos post that read:
Witness every VW and Porsche I'm aware of, they put a LH thread on the
left side front spindle.
I was not clear on that I admit.
Tomas
<-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
From: Mike Drew [MikeLDrew at aol.com]
Sent: 28/5/2016 11:23:00 PM
To: guson at home.se
Cc: forestg at att.net;detomaso at detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Which axles on which side?
Tomas,
Uh, no, we're not. Remember I'm the guy that started the thread by
asking the question in the first place. We are talking about the axles.
There are no axles in the front, only spindles. :)
Mike
Sent from my iPhone
On May 28, 2016, at 13:23, "Tomas Gunnarsson" <guson at home.se> wrote:
> We're talking about front wheel bearing nuts here.
>
> Tomas
> <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
> From: Forest Goodhart [forestg at att.net]
> Sent: 28/5/2016 3:34:04 AM
> To: detomaso at detomasolist.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Which axles on which side?
> I do not think it matters which side the axle is on. I've worked on
> cars with two lefts and also cars with two rights. Neither ever had
any
> issue with axle nuts coming loose, they are torqued to 360 lb/ft plus
> or minus
> From: Mike Drew via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> To: Tomas Gunnarsson <guson at home.se>
> Cc: "<detomaso at detomasolist.com>" <detomaso at detomasolist.com>
> Sent: Friday, May 27, 2016 5:36 PM
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Which axles on which side?
> Tomas,
> You have to remove the driveshaft to see the nut....
> Mike
> Sent from my iPhone
> On May 27, 2016, at 15:51, "Tomas Gunnarsson" <[1]guson at home.se>
> wrote:
> I'll check next time my car has its wheels off! :-D
> Tomas
> <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
> From: Mike Drew [[2]MikeLDrew at aol.com]
> Sent: 27/5/2016 9:43:52 PM
> To: [3]guson at home.se
> Cc: [4]guido_detomaso at prodigy.net;[5]detomaso at detomasolist.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Which axles on which side?
> Tomas,
> I started this thread and the overwhelming response is that the
> original setup had the LH threads on the LH side of the car. I don't
> really want to know why, just wanted to know what was done
> originally....
> Cheers!
> Mike
> Sent from my iPad
>> On May 27, 2016, at 12:35 PM, Tomas Gunnarsson <[6]guson at home.se>
> wrote:
>>
>> I'm pretty sure it's the other way around. Left side of the car, RH
>> thread.
>>
>> Tomas
>> <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
>> From: Guido deTomaso [[7]guido_detomaso at prodigy.net]
>> Sent: 27/5/2016 8:23:20 PM
>> To:
>
>
[8]b.hower3400 at yahoo.com;[9]vinh.d.ly at gmail.com;[10]larrys at panteraparts
> .com
>> Cc: [11]MikeLDrew at aol.com;[12]detomaso at detomasolist.com
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Which axles on which side?
>> Late to this party.
>> Pretty hard to imagine skidding to a stop and having the left side
> lug
>> nuts spin off because of angular momentum, the hub stopped but the
> lugs
>> kept spinning. Similarly hard to imagine the lightweight Pantera
> axle
>> nut continuing to spin even if not tightened since it has a
> friction
>> feature. Any fastener tightened at all is going to produce enough
>> friction to be impervious to angular momentum / angular velocity
>> changes.
>> The self-tightening phenomenon is somewhat easy to predict where
>> there's a rotating load and a thread. A bicycle pedal is a good
>> example, if you can visualize the weight of the rider's foot going
>> around a loose thread, visualize the male thread of the pedal shaft
>> "walking" around the female thread of the crank arm, you may be
> able
> to
>> predict which side will be self-tightening with a LH thread.
>> Similarly British car knock off caps, if the hubs are put on the
> wrong
>> side of the car, or the car is towed backwards, good chance the
> wheels
>> will fall off, hasn't happened to me but I've heard several 1st
> person
>> accounts. Again if you look at the weight of the car, visualize it
>> walking around the thread, you can predict that the right side of
> the
>> car will get the LH thread. ( Hit the top of the knock off toward
> the
>> rear of the car to tighten ). LH threaded lug nuts, still used I
>> believe on heavy-duty trucks, same principle.
>> Other times reverse thread seems to be there only in case of
>> catastrophe: Witness every VW and Porsche I'm aware of, they put a
> LH
>> thread on the left side front spindle. Now this has no weight on
> the
>> thread ... in order for the nut to want to turn, first the outside
>> bearing would have to start spinning on the spindle, then the
> d-shape
>> washer would have to fail, and the cotter pin or clamping feature
> would
>> have to fail, ONLY THEN the reverse thread would save the day,
> until
>> the heat build up snaps the spindle anyway.
>> On the Pantera ... I don't see any path for the weight of the car
> to
>> walk around the thread of the axle nut ... maybe it's there but I
> can't
>> see it. However if under acceleration the flange spline failed, the
>> nuts would tighten if they followed the flange, yes ? Perhaps this
> is
>> the only reason for the handed thread in this application.
>> Or so it seems to me, I could be wrong.
>> GD
>> From: B Hower via DeTomaso <[13]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
>> To: Vinh Ly <[14]vinh.d.ly at gmail.com>; Larry Stock
>> <[15]larrys at panteraparts.com>
>> Cc: Mike Drew <[16]MikeLDrew at aol.com>;
> "[17]detomaso at detomasolist.com"
>> <[18]detomaso at detomasolist.com>
>> Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2016 12:44 PM
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Which axles on which side?
>> You would probably never notice a problem.
>> Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow -- for there may not
>> be
>> ! )
>> __________________________________________________________________
>> From: Vinh Ly <[19]<a href="mailto:vinh.d.ly at gmail.com" ymailto="m<br><br>=== message truncated ===</font></td></tr></table></div> |
-------------- next part --------------
Yeah, I mixed up left and right didn't I ? Despite what I thought was
ample proofreading. Should have stuck with driver and pax.
Was there ever any definitive word on which sides the Pantera axles
belong? It had to be a considerable expense to make them handed. I
just don't a self-tightening effect at work there ... owners can
testify they don't stay tight also !
GD
__________________________________________________________________
From: Tomas Gunnarsson <guson at home.se>
To: guido_detomaso at prodigy.net
Cc: MikeLDrew at aol.com; detomaso at detomasolist.com
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2016 11:47 PM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Which axles on which side?
You have me a little confused here with "RH thread on the right/driver
side and a LH thread on the left/pax side#
:-D
Tomas
<-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
From: Guido deTomaso [guido_detomaso at prodigy.net]
Sent: 29/5/2016 10:38:21 PM
To: guson at home.se;MikeLDrew at aol.com
Cc: detomaso at detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Which axles on which side?
"I'm pretty sure it's the other way around. Left side of the car, RH
thread."
Don't go all Jack DeRyke on me, lest I put a video on YouTube, I've got
the VW hardware at my fingertips. Visualize the front wheel bearing
following the wheel on the left side of the car viewed from the rear, a
LH thread tightens if the nut follows the wheel and spinning bearing.
This would only come into play only after successive prior failures,
that was the analogy to the axle nut.
Similarly I believe the handed Pantera axle nut would only serve a
purpose if the spline were to fail and the drive flange spun about the
axle, that would tighten the axle nut on both sides if there's a RH
thread on the right/driver side and a LH thread on the left/pax side.
I do not believe there is any self-tightening effect at work on the
Pantera axle nut(s), but am open to other ideas ( not momentum )
Thanks,
GD
__________________________________________________________________
From: Tomas Gunnarsson <guson at home.se>
To: MikeLDrew at aol.com
Cc: detomaso at detomasolist.com
Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2016 3:01 PM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Which axles on which side?
I should have said: My bad, I didn't follow the thread from the start
and replied to an off subject piece of info.
Tomas
I was replying to Guidos post that read:
Witness every VW and Porsche I'm aware of, they put a LH thread on
the
left side front spindle.
I was not clear on that I admit.
Tomas
<-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
From: Mike Drew [[1]MikeLDrew at aol.com]
Sent: 28/5/2016 11:23:00 PM
To: [2]guson at home.se
Cc: [3]forestg at att.net;[4]detomaso at detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Which axles on which side?
Tomas,
Uh, no, we're not. Remember I'm the guy that started the thread by
asking the question in the first place. We are talking about the
axles.
There are no axles in the front, only spindles. :)
Mike
Sent from my iPhone
On May 28, 2016, at 13:23, "Tomas Gunnarsson" <[5]guson at home.se>
wrote:
> We're talking about front wheel bearing nuts here.
>
> Tomas
> <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
> From: Forest Goodhart [[6]forestg at att.net]
> Sent: 28/5/2016 3:34:04 AM
> To: [7]detomaso at detomasolist.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Which axles on which side?
> I do not think it matters which side the axle is on. I've worked on
> cars with two lefts and also cars with two rights. Neither ever had
any
> issue with axle nuts coming loose, they are torqued to 360 lb/ft
plus
> or minus
> From: Mike Drew via DeTomaso <[8]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> To: Tomas Gunnarsson <[9]guson at home.se>
> Cc: "<[10]detomaso at detomasolist.com>"
<[11]detomaso at detomasolist.com>
> Sent: Friday, May 27, 2016 5:36 PM
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Which axles on which side?
> Tomas,
> You have to remove the driveshaft to see the nut....
> Mike
> Sent from my iPhone
> On May 27, 2016, at 15:51, "Tomas Gunnarsson"
<[1][12]guson at home.se>
> wrote:
> I'll check next time my car has its wheels off! :-D
> Tomas
> <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
> From: Mike Drew [[2][13]MikeLDrew at aol.com]
> Sent: 27/5/2016 9:43:52 PM
> To: [3][14]guson at home.se
> Cc:
[4][15]guido_detomaso at prodigy.net;[5][16]detomaso at detomasolist.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Which axles on which side?
> Tomas,
> I started this thread and the overwhelming response is that the
> original setup had the LH threads on the LH side of the car. I
don't
> really want to know why, just wanted to know what was done
> originally....
> Cheers!
> Mike
> Sent from my iPad
>> On May 27, 2016, at 12:35 PM, Tomas Gunnarsson
<[6][17]guson at home.se>
> wrote:
>>
>> I'm pretty sure it's the other way around. Left side of the car,
RH
>> thread.
>>
>> Tomas
>> <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
>> From: Guido deTomaso [[7][18]guido_detomaso at prodigy.net]
>> Sent: 27/5/2016 8:23:20 PM
>> To:
>
>
[8][19]b.hower3400 at yahoo.com;[9][20]vinh.d.ly at gmail.com;[10][21]larrys@
panteraparts
> .com
>> Cc: [11][22]MikeLDrew at aol.com;[12][23]detomaso at detomasolist.com
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Which axles on which side?
>> Late to this party.
>> Pretty hard to imagine skidding to a stop and having the left side
> lug
>> nuts spin off because of angular momentum, the hub stopped but the
> lugs
>> kept spinning. Similarly hard to imagine the lightweight Pantera
> axle
>> nut continuing to spin even if not tightened since it has a
> friction
>> feature. Any fastener tightened at all is going to produce enough
>> friction to be impervious to angular momentum / angular velocity
>> changes.
>> The self-tightening phenomenon is somewhat easy to predict where
>> there's a rotating load and a thread. A bicycle pedal is a good
>> example, if you can visualize the weight of the rider's foot going
>> around a loose thread, visualize the male thread of the pedal
shaft
>> "walking" around the female thread of the crank arm, you may be
> able
> to
>> predict which side will be self-tightening with a LH thread.
>> Similarly British car knock off caps, if the hubs are put on the
> wrong
>> side of the car, or the car is towed backwards, good chance the
> wheels
>> will fall off, hasn't happened to me but I've heard several 1st
> person
>> accounts. Again if you look at the weight of the car, visualize it
>> walking around the thread, you can predict that the right side of
> the
>> car will get the LH thread. ( Hit the top of the knock off toward
> the
>> rear of the car to tighten ). LH threaded lug nuts, still used I
>> believe on heavy-duty trucks, same principle.
>> Other times reverse thread seems to be there only in case of
>> catastrophe: Witness every VW and Porsche I'm aware of, they put a
> LH
>> thread on the left side front spindle. Now this has no weight on
> the
>> thread ... in order for the nut to want to turn, first the outside
>> bearing would have to start spinning on the spindle, then the
> d-shape
>> washer would have to fail, and the cotter pin or clamping feature
> would
>> have to fail, ONLY THEN the reverse thread would save the day,
> until
>> the heat build up snaps the spindle anyway.
>> On the Pantera ... I don't see any path for the weight of the car
> to
>> walk around the thread of the axle nut ... maybe it's there but I
> can't
>> see it. However if under acceleration the flange spline failed,
the
>> nuts would tighten if they followed the flange, yes ? Perhaps this
> is
>> the only reason for the handed thread in this application.
>> Or so it seems to me, I could be wrong.
>> GD
>> From: B Hower via DeTomaso
<[13][24]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
>> To: Vinh Ly <[14][25]vinh.d.ly at gmail.com>; Larry Stock
>> <[15][26]larrys at panteraparts.com>
>> Cc: Mike Drew <[16][27]MikeLDrew at aol.com>;
> "[17][28]detomaso at detomasolist.com"
>> <[18][29]detomaso at detomasolist.com>
>> Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2016 12:44 PM
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Which axles on which side?
>> You would probably never notice a problem.
>> Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow -- for there may
not
>> be
>> ! )
>> __________________________________________________________________
>> From: Vinh Ly <[19]<a href="mailto:vinh.d.ly at gmail.com"
ymailto="m<br><br>=== message truncated
===</font></td></tr></table></div>
References
1. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
2. mailto:guson at home.se
3. mailto:forestg at att.net
4. mailto:detomaso at detomasolist.com
5. mailto:guson at home.se
6. mailto:forestg at att.net
7. mailto:detomaso at detomasolist.com
8. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
9. mailto:guson at home.se
10. mailto:detomaso at detomasolist.com
11. mailto:detomaso at detomasolist.com
12. mailto:guson at home.se
13. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
14. mailto:guson at home.se
15. mailto:guido_detomaso at prodigy.net
16. mailto:detomaso at detomasolist.com
17. mailto:guson at home.se
18. mailto:guido_detomaso at prodigy.net
19. mailto:b.hower3400 at yahoo.com
20. mailto:vinh.d.ly at gmail.com
21. mailto:larrys at panteraparts
22. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
23. mailto:detomaso at detomasolist.com
24. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
25. mailto:vinh.d.ly at gmail.com
26. mailto:larrys at panteraparts.com
27. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
28. mailto:detomaso at detomasolist.com
29. mailto:detomaso at detomasolist.com
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