[DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content
Tomas Gunnarsson
guson at home.se
Fri Jul 29 17:08:49 EDT 2016
But most car transmissions also have all gears in constant mesh. You
move a sleeve to connect one pair of gears to the axles at a time. One
of the gears in each pair is constantly engaged to its axle. The
difference has to be in how the gears engage and disengage to the axles
Tomas
<-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
From: Julian Kift [julian_kift at hotmail.com]
Sent: 29/7/2016 9:39:21 PM
To:
charlesmccall at gmail.com;pmenyhart at msn.com;detomaso at detomasolist.com;deto
maso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content
Charlie,
Yes the older British cars often lack a syncro in 1st (and reverse is
not usually a syncro either). Shifting a non syncro requires getting the
gears that are to be meshed spinning at roughly the same speed, best
achieved via double clutching or knowing what revs to shift at (18
wheelers are all non syncro boxes, most truckers can shift without use
of a clutch). You could try this in your folks MG-TD, i recommend some
distance from their house until you have it down [??]
The main difference in a motorcycle gearbox is it is a "constant mesh"
i.e. all the gears are constantly meshed and spinning(no syncro required
to spin up the gears). It is also sequential so shifting through the
gears in order without ability bypass a gear (other than neutral to
second as neutral is half click between first and second).
Julian
________________________________
From: Charles McCall <charlesmccall at gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, July 29, 2016 11:56 AM
To: 'Julian Kift'; 'Peter Menyhart'; 'pantera forum';
detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content
Julian-- educate me if you do''t mind.
You say that motorcycle gearboxes are non syncromesh.
My folks have a 1952 MG-TD that has syncromesh in 2nd, 3rd, and 4th, but
not first. When you come to a stop, if you have''t come to a COMPLETE
stop i''ll crunch when you put it in first. It wo''t crunch if you put
it in second and I was told that this was due to the lack of syncromesh.
If this is true, why does''t my bike crunch when putting it in first
while still rolling?
From: Julian Kift [mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com]
Sent: viernes, 29 de julio de 2016 17:10
To: Peter Menyhart; Charles McCall; pantera forum;
detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content
Charles,
I would postulate it is because a motorcycle gearbox is already a "race
box", i.e. non syncromesh, dog box with straight cut gears, which is
essentially the simplest and lightest gearbox you can get. Shifting
without the clutch is fairly universal on race bikes and similar to race
cars permitted by the straight cut gear design. Motorcycle clutches are
now dry (whereas yours is probably a wet clutch) and much lighter design
and I would only use the very lightest clutch pressure on my street bike
(Ducati superbike) just to take the pressure off the gears.
Julian
________________________________
From: DeTomaso
<detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso-bounces at server
.detomasolist.com>> on behalf of Peter Menyhart
<pmenyhart at msn.com<mailto:pmenyhart at msn.com>>
Sent: Friday, July 29, 2016 5:29 AM
To: Charles McCall; pantera forum
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content
Interesting question,
when I'm in Germany in september I'll ask my brother.He works in
development at BMW Motorcycle and also races vintage Wankel bikes.
I think your right,the weight gain is probably too much.
Peter
check out our website at:
www.whitehorseranch.com<http://www.whitehorseranch.com>
From: charlesmccall at gmail.com<mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 09:45:11 +0200
To: detomaso at detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso at detomasolist.com>
Subject: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content
Motorcycle ramblings with a question at the end....
The weather has been absolutely fantastic here for the past few weeks,
so I
have been using my motorcycle for my daily commute to and from work.
It's
recently back on the road after more or less being in storage for 18
years.
It is true that long term storage isn't good for vehicles - either cars
or
motorcycles. I filled the tank up with gas and it all ran right on the
floor... hoses that had disintegrated with time. Got that repaired.
The gas on the floor was mixing with a massive oil leak caused by a
gasket
on the cam tensioner that dried out and cracked. Got that fixed.
I'm glad my motorcycle is air-cooled or I know what would be leaking
now!
We didn't get off to a good start this year!
The motorcycle is a 1982 Suzuki GS650, nothing particularly special but
with a lot of sentimental value. I bought it when I was 19 and a college
sophomore. I'd never been on a motorcycle in my life - neither as a
passenger nor a driver. I walked into the local Suzuki dealer and said
"I
like that one, I'll buy it!" and paid for it with my visa card, at 19.6%
interest. And I wonder why it took me so long to pay off my college
loans?
;-)
We went to the parking lot and the salesman told me "This is the clutch,
here's how you change gears, this is the front brake....have fun!" And I
learned how to drive on the way home. Ah, youth!
The motorcycle has been all over the place. I went to Cornell
University,
in upstate NY, and my girlfriend at the time went to Michigan, so it
made
the trip many times. It's attended Sturgis (despite being a Japanese
bike,
but I drove it there unlike many of the Harleys!) prowled the streets of
Chicago, etc. But it got put into storage when I moved to Europe and
took a
long time to catch up to me. It recently was made road-worthy and is
still
wearing US plates, although I'll have to fix that over the next year. It
is
very difficult and very expensive to insure a vehicle in Europe with US
plates. But for those from the US or Canada attending Le Mans Classic -
-IT
CAN BE DONE!
Anyway, my question. The tendency in race cars and sports cars is moving
away from a manual transmission to an automatic. I know that isn't quite
true but don't really care if there is still technically a clutch or not
-
if there isn't a clutch pedal inside, then it's an automatic! Why hasn't
the same thing happened with motorcycles? Because the shift time on a
motorcycle is already so short? Do racers even use the clutch on a race
bike? The weight associated with the mechanism is a larger percentage of
a
light bike as opposed to a car?
Just wondering this morning, as it was a nice morning for a ride and as
there's no radio my mind went wandering...
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-------------- next part --------------
But most car transmissions also have all gears in constant mesh. You
move a sleeve to connect one pair of gears to the axles at a time. One
of the gears in each pair is constantly engaged to its axle. The
difference has to be in how the gears engage and disengage to the axles
Tomas
<-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
From: Julian Kift [julian_kift at hotmail.com]
Sent: 29/7/2016 9:39:21 PM
To:
charlesmccall at gmail.com;pmenyhart at msn.com;detomaso at detomasolist.com;det
omaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content
Charlie,
Yes the older British cars often lack a syncro in 1st (and reverse is
not usually a syncro either). Shifting a non syncro requires getting
the gears that are to be meshed spinning at roughly the same speed,
best achieved via double clutching or knowing what revs to shift at (18
wheelers are all non syncro boxes, most truckers can shift without use
of a clutch). You could try this in your folks MG-TD, i recommend some
distance from their house until you have it down [😉?]
The main difference in a motorcycle gearbox is it is a "constant mesh"
i.e. all the gears are constantly meshed and spinning(no syncro
required to spin up the gears). It is also sequential so shifting
through the gears in order without ability bypass a gear (other than
neutral to second as neutral is half click between first and second).
Julian
________________________________
From: Charles McCall <charlesmccall at gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, July 29, 2016 11:56 AM
To: 'Julian Kift'; 'Peter Menyhart'; 'pantera forum';
detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content
Julian-- educate me if you do''t mind.
You say that motorcycle gearboxes are non syncromesh.
My folks have a 1952 MG-TD that has syncromesh in 2nd, 3rd, and 4th,
but not first. When you come to a stop, if you have''t come to a
COMPLETE stop i''ll crunch when you put it in first. It wo''t crunch if
you put it in second and I was told that this was due to the lack of
syncromesh.
If this is true, why does''t my bike crunch when putting it in first
while still rolling?
From: Julian Kift [mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com]
Sent: viernes, 29 de julio de 2016 17:10
To: Peter Menyhart; Charles McCall; pantera forum;
detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content
Charles,
I would postulate it is because a motorcycle gearbox is already a "race
box", i.e. non syncromesh, dog box with straight cut gears, which is
essentially the simplest and lightest gearbox you can get. Shifting
without the clutch is fairly universal on race bikes and similar to
race cars permitted by the straight cut gear design. Motorcycle
clutches are now dry (whereas yours is probably a wet clutch) and much
lighter design and I would only use the very lightest clutch pressure
on my street bike (Ducati superbike) just to take the pressure off the
gears.
Julian
________________________________
From: DeTomaso
<detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso-bounces at serve
r.detomasolist.com>> on behalf of Peter Menyhart
<pmenyhart at msn.com<mailto:pmenyhart at msn.com>>
Sent: Friday, July 29, 2016 5:29 AM
To: Charles McCall; pantera forum
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content
Interesting question,
when I'm in Germany in september I'll ask my brother.He works in
development at BMW Motorcycle and also races vintage Wankel bikes.
I think your right,the weight gain is probably too much.
Peter
check out our website at:
www.whitehorseranch.com<http://www.whitehorseranch.com>
From: charlesmccall at gmail.com<mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 09:45:11 +0200
To: detomaso at detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso at detomasolist.com>
Subject: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content
Motorcycle ramblings with a question at the end....
The weather has been absolutely fantastic here for the past few weeks,
so I
have been using my motorcycle for my daily commute to and from work.
It's
recently back on the road after more or less being in storage for 18
years.
It is true that long term storage isn't good for vehicles - either cars
or
motorcycles. I filled the tank up with gas and it all ran right on the
floor... hoses that had disintegrated with time. Got that repaired.
The gas on the floor was mixing with a massive oil leak caused by a
gasket
on the cam tensioner that dried out and cracked. Got that fixed.
I'm glad my motorcycle is air-cooled or I know what would be leaking
now!
We didn't get off to a good start this year!
The motorcycle is a 1982 Suzuki GS650, nothing particularly special but
with a lot of sentimental value. I bought it when I was 19 and a
college
sophomore. I'd never been on a motorcycle in my life - neither as a
passenger nor a driver. I walked into the local Suzuki dealer and said
"I
like that one, I'll buy it!" and paid for it with my visa card, at
19.6%
interest. And I wonder why it took me so long to pay off my college
loans?
;-)
We went to the parking lot and the salesman told me "This is the
clutch,
here's how you change gears, this is the front brake....have fun!" And
I
learned how to drive on the way home. Ah, youth!
The motorcycle has been all over the place. I went to Cornell
University,
in upstate NY, and my girlfriend at the time went to Michigan, so it
made
the trip many times. It's attended Sturgis (despite being a Japanese
bike,
but I drove it there unlike many of the Harleys!) prowled the streets
of
Chicago, etc. But it got put into storage when I moved to Europe and
took a
long time to catch up to me. It recently was made road-worthy and is
still
wearing US plates, although I'll have to fix that over the next year.
It is
very difficult and very expensive to insure a vehicle in Europe with US
plates. But for those from the US or Canada attending Le Mans Classic -
-IT
CAN BE DONE!
Anyway, my question. The tendency in race cars and sports cars is
moving
away from a manual transmission to an automatic. I know that isn't
quite
true but don't really care if there is still technically a clutch or
not -
if there isn't a clutch pedal inside, then it's an automatic! Why
hasn't
the same thing happened with motorcycles? Because the shift time on a
motorcycle is already so short? Do racers even use the clutch on a race
bike? The weight associated with the mechanism is a larger percentage
of a
light bike as opposed to a car?
Just wondering this morning, as it was a nice morning for a ride and as
there's no radio my mind went wandering...
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
DeTomaso mailing list
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