[DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content

Fri Jul 29 14:56:34 EDT 2016

Julian - educate me if you don't mind. 

You say that motorcycle gearboxes are non syncromesh. 

My folks have a 1952 MG-TD that has syncromesh in 2nd, 3rd, and 4th, but not
first. When you come to a stop, if you haven't come to a COMPLETE stop it'll
crunch when you put it in first. It won't crunch if you put it in second and
I was told that this was due to the lack of syncromesh. 

If this is true, why doesn't my bike crunch when putting it in first while
still rolling?  

From: Julian Kift [mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com] 
Sent: viernes, 29 de julio de 2016 17:10
To: Peter Menyhart; Charles McCall; pantera forum;
detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content

Charles,

I would postulate it is because a motorcycle gearbox is already a "race
box", i.e. non syncromesh, dog box with straight cut gears, which is
essentially the simplest and lightest gearbox you can get. Shifting without
the clutch is fairly universal on race bikes and similar to race cars
permitted by the straight cut gear design. Motorcycle clutches are now dry
(whereas yours is probably a wet clutch) and much lighter design and I would
only use the very lightest clutch pressure on my street bike (Ducati
superbike) just to take the pressure off the gears.

Julian

  _____  

From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of Peter
Menyhart <pmenyhart at msn.com>
Sent: Friday, July 29, 2016 5:29 AM
To: Charles McCall; pantera forum
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content 

Interesting question,
when I'm in Germany in september I'll ask my brother.He works in development
at BMW Motorcycle and also races vintage Wankel bikes.
I think your right,the weight gain is probably too much.

Peter

check out our website at:   www.whitehorseranch.com   

From: charlesmccall at gmail.com
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 09:45:11 +0200
To: detomaso at detomasolist.com
Subject: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content

Motorcycle ramblings with a question at the end....

The weather has been absolutely fantastic here for the past few weeks, so I
have been using my motorcycle for my daily commute to and from work. It's
recently back on the road after more or less being in storage for 18 years.
It is true that long term storage isn't good for vehicles - either cars or
motorcycles. I filled the tank up with gas and it all ran right on the
floor... hoses that had disintegrated with time. Got that repaired.

The gas on the floor was mixing with a massive oil leak caused by a gasket
on the cam tensioner that dried out and cracked. Got that fixed.

I'm glad my motorcycle is air-cooled or I know what would be leaking now!
We didn't get off to a good start this year!

The motorcycle is a 1982 Suzuki GS650, nothing particularly special but
with a lot of sentimental value. I bought it when I was 19 and a college
sophomore. I'd never been on a motorcycle in my life - neither as a
passenger nor a driver. I walked into the local Suzuki dealer and said "I
like that one, I'll buy it!" and paid for it with my visa card, at 19.6%
interest. And I wonder why it took me so long to pay off my college loans?
;-)

We went to the parking lot and the salesman told me "This is the clutch,
here's how you change gears, this is the front brake....have fun!" And I
learned how to drive on the way home. Ah, youth!

The motorcycle has been all over the place. I went to Cornell University,
in upstate NY, and my girlfriend at the time went to Michigan, so it made
the trip many times. It's attended Sturgis (despite being a Japanese bike,
but I drove it there unlike many of the Harleys!) prowled the streets of
Chicago, etc. But it got put into storage when I moved to Europe and took a
long time to catch up to me. It recently was made road-worthy and is still
wearing US plates, although I'll have to fix that over the next year. It is
very difficult and very expensive to insure a vehicle in Europe with US
plates. But for those from the US or Canada attending Le Mans Classic - -IT
CAN BE DONE!

Anyway, my question. The tendency in race cars and sports cars is moving
away from a manual transmission to an automatic. I know that isn't quite
true but don't really care if there is still technically a clutch or not -
if there isn't a clutch pedal inside, then it's an automatic! Why hasn't
the same thing happened with motorcycles? Because the shift time on a
motorcycle is already so short? Do racers even use the clutch on a race
bike? The weight associated with the mechanism is a larger percentage of a
light bike as opposed to a car?

Just wondering this morning, as it was a nice morning for a ride and as
there's no radio my mind went wandering...

_______________________________________________

Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
DeTomaso mailing list
DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso

To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use
the links above.

Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list.
They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve
the archiving of list messages.                                    

-------------- next part --------------
   Julian - educate me if you don't mind.

   You say that motorcycle gearboxes are non syncromesh.

   My folks have a 1952 MG-TD that has syncromesh in 2^nd, 3^rd, and 4^th,
   but not first. When you come to a stop, if you haven't come to a
   COMPLETE stop it'll crunch when you put it in first. It won't crunch if
   you put it in second and I was told that this was due to the lack of
   syncromesh.

   If this is true, why doesn't my bike crunch when putting it in first
   while still rolling?

   From: Julian Kift [mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com]
   Sent: viernes, 29 de julio de 2016 17:10
   To: Peter Menyhart; Charles McCall; pantera forum;
   detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content

   Charles,

   I would postulate it is because a motorcycle gearbox is already a "race
   box", i.e. non syncromesh, dog box with straight cut gears, which is
   essentially the simplest and lightest gearbox you can get. Shifting
   without the clutch is fairly universal on race bikes and similar to
   race cars permitted by the straight cut gear design. Motorcycle
   clutches are now dry (whereas yours is probably a wet clutch) and much
   lighter design and I would only use the very lightest
   clutch pressure on my street bike (Ducati superbike) just to take
   the pressure off the gears.

   Julian
    _____________________________________________________________________

   From: DeTomaso <[1]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf
   of Peter Menyhart <[2]pmenyhart at msn.com>
   Sent: Friday, July 29, 2016 5:29 AM
   To: Charles McCall; pantera forum
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content

   Interesting question,
   when I'm in Germany in september I'll ask my brother.He works in
   development at BMW Motorcycle and also races vintage Wankel bikes.
   I think your right,the weight gain is probably too much.
   Peter
   check out our website at:   [3]www.whitehorseranch.com
   From: [4]charlesmccall at gmail.com
   Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 09:45:11 +0200
   To: [5]detomaso at detomasolist.com
   Subject: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content
   Motorcycle ramblings with a question at the end....

   The weather has been absolutely fantastic here for the past few weeks,
   so I
   have been using my motorcycle for my daily commute to and from work.
   It's
   recently back on the road after more or less being in storage for 18
   years.
   It is true that long term storage isn't good for vehicles - either cars
   or
   motorcycles. I filled the tank up with gas and it all ran right on the
   floor... hoses that had disintegrated with time. Got that repaired.

   The gas on the floor was mixing with a massive oil leak caused by a
   gasket
   on the cam tensioner that dried out and cracked. Got that fixed.

   I'm glad my motorcycle is air-cooled or I know what would be leaking
   now!
   We didn't get off to a good start this year!

   The motorcycle is a 1982 Suzuki GS650, nothing particularly special but
   with a lot of sentimental value. I bought it when I was 19 and a
   college
   sophomore. I'd never been on a motorcycle in my life - neither as a
   passenger nor a driver. I walked into the local Suzuki dealer and said
   "I
   like that one, I'll buy it!" and paid for it with my visa card, at
   19.6%
   interest. And I wonder why it took me so long to pay off my college
   loans?
   ;-)

   We went to the parking lot and the salesman told me "This is the
   clutch,
   here's how you change gears, this is the front brake....have fun!" And
   I
   learned how to drive on the way home. Ah, youth!

   The motorcycle has been all over the place. I went to Cornell
   University,
   in upstate NY, and my girlfriend at the time went to Michigan, so it
   made
   the trip many times. It's attended Sturgis (despite being a Japanese
   bike,
   but I drove it there unlike many of the Harleys!) prowled the streets
   of
   Chicago, etc. But it got put into storage when I moved to Europe and
   took a
   long time to catch up to me. It recently was made road-worthy and is
   still
   wearing US plates, although I'll have to fix that over the next year.
   It is
   very difficult and very expensive to insure a vehicle in Europe with US
   plates. But for those from the US or Canada attending Le Mans Classic -
   -IT
   CAN BE DONE!

   Anyway, my question. The tendency in race cars and sports cars is
   moving
   away from a manual transmission to an automatic. I know that isn't
   quite
   true but don't really care if there is still technically a clutch or
   not -
   if there isn't a clutch pedal inside, then it's an automatic! Why
   hasn't
   the same thing happened with motorcycles? Because the shift time on a
   motorcycle is already so short? Do racers even use the clutch on a race
   bike? The weight associated with the mechanism is a larger percentage
   of a
   light bike as opposed to a car?

   Just wondering this morning, as it was a nice morning for a ride and as
   there's no radio my mind went wandering...
   _______________________________________________
   Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
   Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
   DeTomaso mailing list
   [6]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   [7]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
   To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
   use the links above.
   Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
   message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
   list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
   or approve the archiving of list
   messages.

References

   1. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
   2. mailto:pmenyhart at msn.com
   3. http://www.whitehorseranch.com/
   4. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
   5. mailto:detomaso at detomasolist.com
   6. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   7. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso