[DeTomaso] DeTomaso Digest, Vol 139, Issue 16
Charles Engles
cengles at cox.net
Thu Jan 14 20:51:37 EST 2016
Dear Bud,
Egad! I foolishly overlooked the correct answer: Drive faster. More speed produces more cooling and more fun!
Vroom, vroom, Chuck Engles
From: B Hower [mailto:b.hower3400 at yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 7:32 PM
To: Charles Engles; 'tom ware'; detomaso at poca.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] DeTomaso Digest, Vol 139, Issue 16
Drive faster to get air flow up past tank. . smile.
Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow -- for there may not be ! )
_____
From: Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net>
To: 'tom ware' <ace595 at hotmail.com>; detomaso at poca.com
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 7:14 PM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] DeTomaso Digest, Vol 139, Issue 16
Dear Tom,
I am not an expert, but....
last year I removed the gas tank from my late '74 Pantera, which has had the
stainless steel treatment for the last twenty five years. Behind the bling
is the base stock thick aluminum(?) which is not a single layer. There are
at least two layers and there *might* be a layer in between. That is my
guess and I will defer to an expert.
I think that the normal stainless steel shield installation is over the
stock one. Perhaps it is heavier, but it would tend to further shield the
gas tank from the headers' heat.
Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of tom ware
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 5:58 PM
To: detomaso at poca.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] DeTomaso Digest, Vol 139, Issue 16
Gas tank shield ?
I have a new stainless steel shield that came with my project.
Is it the norm to insulate it for heat.?
Thanks
Tom
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jan 14, 2016, at 2:00 PM, <detomaso-request at poca.com>
<detomaso-request at poca.com> wrote:
>
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> Daily Detomaso List Digest
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: parking brakes (Tomas Gunnarsson)
> 2. Re: parking brakes (MikeLDrew at aol.com)
> 3. Re: parking brakes (MikeLDrew at aol.com)
> 4. Re: parking brakes (MikeLDrew at aol.com)
> 5. Re: Campagnolo Wheels (MikeLDrew at aol.com)
> 6. Re: parking brakes (Stephen)
> 7. Re: parking brakes (L GRAY)
> 8. Re: Campagnolo Wheels (Michael Shortt)
> 9. Re: parking brakes (Tomas Gunnarsson)
> 10. Re: Campagnolo Wheels (Larry Stock)
> 11. Re: parking brakes (Charles McCall)
> 12. Re: parking brakes (Tomas Gunnarsson)
> 13. Re: parking brakes (Charles McCall)
> 14. Re: parking brakes (Thomas Tornblom)
> 15. Re: Campagnolo Wheels (marshall smith)
> 16. Re: Campagnolo Wheels (marshall smith)
> 17. Re: Campagnolo Wheels (Michael Shortt)
> 18. Re: parking brakes (Ken Green)
> 19. Re: parking brakes (Scott Bell)
> 20. NPC 91 Merc parts (B Hower)
> 21. NPC 2000 BMW 740i Sport for whole or parts (Rob Dumoulin)
> 22. Re: NPC 2000 BMW 740i Sport for whole or parts
> (Mirril M. McMullen)
> 23. Re: NPC 2000 BMW 740i Sport for whole or parts (Rob Dumoulin)
> 24. Re: NPC 2000 BMW 740i Sport for whole or parts (Rob Dumoulin)
> 25. Re: parking brakes (marshall smith)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 11:27:31 -0800
> From: "Tomas Gunnarsson" <guson at home.se>
> To: <gaino at earthlink.net>
> Cc: <steve at snclocks.com>, <detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> Message-ID: <46D238640B764EE3A581C2544BE74A80 at mail2world.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Yes Bill, most likely. I have installed calipers on the front side of
> the uprights, the holes were threaded and all. I think I heard that not
> all uprights are drilled front and back but it may be that only newer
> cars that suffer from that.
>
> Tomas
>
>
>
> <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
>
> From: bill gaino [gaino at earthlink.net]
> Sent: 13/1/2016 6:13:51 PM
> To: steve at snclocks.com;guson at home.se
> Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
>
>
> Is it possible to mount the stock calipers in the front position to use
> as Ebrake? He already has the Wilwoods installed and saftey wired on
> the rear mounts..Bill 1362
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stephen
> Sent: Jan 13, 2016 11:21 AM
> To: 'Tomas Gunnarsson' , gaino at earthlink.net
> Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
>
>
>
> Whilst 'inelegant', at least the stock system works well. I
> installed Wildwoods on the front of the discs and kept the originals on
> the back. I did have the originals coated black - heck, doesn't look
> that bad.
>
>
>
> Stephen Nelson
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of
> Tomas Gunnarsson
> Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2016 8:03 AM
> To: gaino at earthlink.net
> Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
>
>
>
> That's simply not a good solution. Doesn't work as an emergency
> brake and parking brake function is dubious. If you park your car with
> the brakes hot they may release when they cool off.
>
>
>
> Tomas
>
>
>
> <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
>
>
>
> From: bill gaino
> [gaino at earthlink.net]
>
> Sent: 13/1/2016 4:52:29 PM
>
> To: detomaso at poca.com <mailto:detomaso at poca.com>
>
> Subject: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
>
>
>
> Is anybody using a solinoid based parking brake? Something that
> that blocks fluid in the brake lines to hold calipers pressed against
> the rotors. My customer does not want the extra set of E brake
> calipers..
>
> like IPSCO offers. Bill 1362
>
>
>
>
>
>
> https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref=ts <https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref=ts&fref> &fref
> <https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref=ts <https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref=ts&fre> &fre
> f>
>
> =ts
>
> If you want it slick. www.slickpaint.com
> <http://www.slickpaint.com <http://www.slickpaint.com/> > like us on facebook
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
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> .
> -------------- next part --------------
> Yes Bill, most likely. I have installed calipers on the front side of
> the uprights, the holes were threaded and all. I think I heard that not
> all uprights are drilled front and back but it may be that only newer
> cars that suffer from that.
>
> Tomas
> <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
> From: bill gaino [gaino at earthlink.net]
> Sent: 13/1/2016 6:13:51 PM
> To: steve at snclocks.com;guson at home.se
> Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> Is it possible to mount the stock calipers in the front position to use
> as Ebrake? He already has the Wilwoods installed and saftey wired on
> the rear mounts..Bill 1362
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stephen
> Sent: Jan 13, 2016 11:21 AM
> To: 'Tomas Gunnarsson' , gaino at earthlink.net
> Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
>
> Whilst `inelegant', at least the stock system works well. I installed
> Wildwoods on the front of the discs and kept the originals on the
> back. I did have the originals coated black - heck, doesn't look that
> bad.
>
>
> Stephen Nelson
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of Tomas
> Gunnarsson
> Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2016 8:03 AM
> To: gaino at earthlink.net
> Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
>
>
> That's simply not a good solution. Doesn't work as an emergency brake
> and parking brake function is dubious. If you park your car with the
> brakes hot they may release when they cool off.
>
> Tomas
>
>
> <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
>
>
> From: bill gaino [gaino at earthlink.net]
>
> Sent: 13/1/2016 4:52:29 PM
>
> To: [1]detomaso at poca.com
>
> Subject: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
>
>
> Is anybody using a solinoid based parking brake? Something that that
> blocks fluid in the brake lines to hold calipers pressed against the
> rotors. My customer does not want the extra set of E brake calipers..
>
> like IPSCO offers. Bill 1362
>
>
>
> [2]https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref=ts <https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref=ts&> &
> fref
>
> =ts
>
> If you want it slick. [3]www.slickpaint.com like us on facebook
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
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> If you want it slick. www.slickpaint.com like us on facebook
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> References
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> 3. http://www.slickpaint.com/
> 4. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 5. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 14:51:53 -0500
> From: MikeLDrew at aol.com
> To: guson at home.se, gaino at earthlink.net
> Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> Message-ID: <72fdba.12644e17.43c804d9 at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
> In a message dated 1/13/16 8 03 59, guson at home.se writes:
>
>
>> That's simply not a good solution. Doesn't work as an emergency brake
>> and parking brake function is dubious. If you park your car with the
>> brakes hot they may release when they cool off.
>
>>>> Tomas, you're talking about a simple line lock. He's asking about an
> (electrical) solenoid-operated system, which was pioneered by the OEMs and
is
> in wide use (and is, significantly, sufficiently effective to satisfy
> government regulations worldwide). Such systems are now available in the
> aftermarket.
>
> I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems work by
> pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple mechanical
'arm' that
> is pulling on a mechanical parking brake? Does anybody know that for
sure?
>
> You're correct in asserting that a simple line lock is insufficient to
hold
> a car for any length of time; they are designed for very short-term use
> only. Geoff Peters' Pantera nearly missed (by less than an inch)
crashing
> into an Aston Martin DB4 when he let a friend borrow it and the fool
parked it
> overnight on a slope in neutral with the line lock engaged. As the
brakes
> cooled at night, they released and the car rolled through a lot crowded
with
> collector cars, brushed past the Aston and crashed through a hedge and
down
> into a ditch! Fortunately it was unhurt, but it could have been very bad
> indeed.
>
> A solenoid-type system that actuated the brake hydraulics would be much
> more effective because it has its own master cylinder that would still
hold
> pressure even as the fluid cooled. However, it would not serve as a
proper
> emergency brake if there was a hydraulic failure (say, a seal blew out in
a
> caliper) whereas a cable-type system that mechanically leverages the
> components of the caliper requires no hydraulics to work.
>
> Mike (who has had no parking brake at all for the past 30 years...park
> wisely and hope for the best!)
> -------------- next part --------------
> In a message dated 1/13/16 8 03 59, guson at home.se writes:
>
> That's simply not a good solution. Doesn't work as an emergency
> brake
> and parking brake function is dubious. If you park your car with the
> brakes hot they may release when they cool off.
>
>>>> Tomas, you're talking about a simple line lock. He's asking about
> an (electrical) solenoid-operated system, which was pioneered by the
> OEMs and is in wide use (and is, significantly, sufficiently effective
> to satisfy government regulations worldwide). Such systems are now
> available in the aftermarket.
> I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems work by
> pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple mechanical
> 'arm' that is pulling on a mechanical parking brake? Does anybody know
> that for sure?
> You're correct in asserting that a simple line lock is insufficient to
> hold a car for any length of time; they are designed for very
> short-term use only. Geoff Peters' Pantera nearly missed (by less than
> an inch) crashing into an Aston Martin DB4 when he let a friend borrow
> it and the fool parked it overnight on a slope in neutral with the line
> lock engaged. As the brakes cooled at night, they released and the car
> rolled through a lot crowded with collector cars, brushed past the
> Aston and crashed through a hedge and down into a ditch! Fortunately
> it was unhurt, but it could have been very bad indeed.
> A solenoid-type system that actuated the brake hydraulics would be much
> more effective because it has its own master cylinder that would still
> hold pressure even as the fluid cooled. However, it would not serve as
> a proper emergency brake if there was a hydraulic failure (say, a seal
> blew out in a caliper) whereas a cable-type system that mechanically
> leverages the components of the caliper requires no hydraulics to work.
> Mike (who has had no parking brake at all for the past 30 years...park
> wisely and hope for the best!)
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 14:51:57 -0500
> From: MikeLDrew at aol.com
> To: gaino at earthlink.net, steve at snclocks.com, guson at home.se
> Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> Message-ID: <72fdc9.23690f23.43c804dd at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
> In a message dated 1/13/16 9 15 10, gaino at earthlink.net writes:
>
>
>> ?? Is it possible to mount the stock calipers in the front position to
>> use
>> ?? as Ebrake?? He already has the Wilwoods installed and saftey wired on
>> ?? the rear mounts.
>
>>>> People who say 'yes' are forgetting about simple mechanics. The
> calipers are actuated by cables which are introduced into the rear of the
> wheelwell. If the calipers are repositioned the cables will no longer
fit, plus if
> longer ones were used, they would foul the driveshafts on their way
> forward. The only possible way to make a system like that work would be
to
> reposition the cables so they entered the wheelwells ahead of, instead of
behind
> the hub carriers, and there would be a fair bit of engineering involved.
I
> suppose it might be possible, but it certainly won't be a trivial
exercise.
>
> Mike
> -------------- next part --------------
> In a message dated 1/13/16 9 15 10, gaino at earthlink.net writes:
>
> Is it possible to mount the stock calipers in the front position
> to use
> as Ebrake? He already has the Wilwoods installed and saftey
> wired on
> the rear mounts.
>
>>>> People who say 'yes' are forgetting about simple mechanics. The
> calipers are actuated by cables which are introduced into the rear of
> the wheelwell. If the calipers are repositioned the cables will no
> longer fit, plus if longer ones were used, they would foul the
> driveshafts on their way forward. The only possible way to make a
> system like that work would be to reposition the cables so they entered
> the wheelwells ahead of, instead of behind the hub carriers, and there
> would be a fair bit of engineering involved. I suppose it might be
> possible, but it certainly won't be a trivial exercise.
> Mike
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 14:52:03 -0500
> From: MikeLDrew at aol.com
> To: guson at home.se, gaino at earthlink.net
> Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> Message-ID: <72fddd.5edc2feb.43c804e3 at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
> In a message dated 1/13/16 11 28 28, guson at home.se writes:
>
>
>> Yes Bill, most likely. I have installed calipers on the front side of
>> the uprights, the holes were threaded and all. I think I heard that not
>> all uprights are drilled front and back but it may be that only newer
>> cars that suffer from that.
>
>>>> True--the GT5/GT5-S uprights are 'handed' with mounting holes only on
> one side (which, when you think about it, is really dumb from a production
> standpoint).
>
> Mike
> -------------- next part --------------
> In a message dated 1/13/16 11 28 28, guson at home.se writes:
>
> Yes Bill, most likely. I have installed calipers on the front side
> of
> the uprights, the holes were threaded and all. I think I heard that
> not
> all uprights are drilled front and back but it may be that only
> newer
> cars that suffer from that.
>
>>>> True--the GT5/GT5-S uprights are 'handed' with mounting holes only
> on one side (which, when you think about it, is really dumb from a
> production standpoint).
> Mike
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 15:19:19 -0500
> From: MikeLDrew at aol.com
> To: davel at emspace.com, detomaso at poca.com, michael at michaelshortt.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Campagnolo Wheels
> Message-ID: <73161a.56810af3.43c80b47 at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
> In a message dated 1/10/16 21 39 38, davel at emspace.com writes:
>
>
>>
>> My 17" Hall wheels are a lot heavier than the mags.
>> I think that's fine for street, but aren't you concerned about the
>> unsprung weight for track use?
>> dave
>>
>>
>>>> Interesting. This was apparently a reply to an original post by
> Michael Shortt, but that post never came through to me nor did it wind up
in my
> spam folder?
>
> I'm noting some irregularities with the forum these days....anyway,
> thankfully Dave included Michael's original post, so see replies below:
>
>
>>> On 1/08/16 9:17 PM, Michael Shortt wrote:
>>> ? ?? Greetings,
>>>
>>> ? ?? After gathering all my wheels in one place and a brief inventory
>> today,
>>> ? ?? I have 21 Campy wheels,
>>
>>>> Uh...that's a lot. :>)
>
>
>
>>> ? ?? 5 Single Slots and a mixture of the 4 Double Slots and Zero Triple
>>> ? ?? Slots ( No 10") Plus 2 sets of 17" Boyd Coddington Wheels made for
>> Hall
>>> ? ?? Pantera.
>
>>>> Uh, I don't think Coddington every made wheels for Hall? He did make
> them for several other vendors, in several different styles, some markedly
> better than others. Can you share some images perhaps to help in
> identification?
>
> Hall did have somebody cast up ten-spoke Si-looking wheels that were
welded
> together, and perhaps Coddington was the source for those?
>
>>>> ? ?? And the 17" 10 spokes on the car now with 335/35 and 245/40.
>>
>>>> What kind of wheels are those? 10 spokes is a pretty vague
> descriiption--although I admit I'm pretty certain how many spokes they
have at least. :>
> )
>
>>>
>>> ? ?? I am keeping the 10 spokes with PZeros for Street use,
>>> ? ?? And one set of the 17" Hall Wheels with 315/235 Kumhos for Rally
and
>>> ? ?? Track use.
>>
>>>> Wait--are you talking about Coddington Campagnolo clones, or Hall
wheels
> which are three-piece, bolt-together affairs, with a fake center spinner?
> Those are as different as chalk and cheese (with the latter being the only
> genuinely suspect/dangerous wheels I've ever encountered).
>
>
>>> ? ?? I will be keeping the Single Slots for Concours with skinny
>> Blackwalls
>>> ? ?? and a set of Double Slots with Vintage Arrivas for Photos, With a
>> spare
>>> ? ?? Front and a Spare Rear in case of a boo boo.
>>
>>>> Sounds good!
>>>
>>>> ? ?? That leaves 2 full sets of double slot wheels to dispose of. Sell
>> or
>>> ? ?? Trade. Photos Available.
>>
>>>> Somebody just asked for a set--Guy Dellavecchia? What kind are they?
> Guy might want to trade his '71 two-slot wheels for some L-model wheels?
>
>>> ? ?? I'd love a Triple Slot set. Anybody have some?
>>
>>>> I have only ever seen two of them (separately) in my life. These were
> an experimental wheel used on the first pushmobile prototype. I have no
> idea how many were put into production but I've never seen any other car
> wearing them, so I would have to imagine the number is very small indeed.
Even
> 1006, the earliest known Pantera extant, had single slot wheels.
>
> So don't hold your breath waiting for a full set of three-slot wheels to
> appear. :>)
>
>>> I will sort them this week by design, Thanks Mike Drew for the Campy
>>> ? ?? Wheel education.
>>
>>>> It's my pleasure, but at this point I'm far more concerned about your
> aftermarket wheels. Simply put, I would never wish three-piece Hall
wheels
> on my worst enemy, and especially not for track use. We collectively
know
> about multiple failures, which always led to rapid deflation and a
potential
> accident. Jack has often told of the car that was zorching down Mt. Ch
> arleston in Las Vegas at triple digit speeds one year when his Hall wheel
> dismantled himself; I believe it thrust the car into the scenery, but
can't
> remember that aspect of the story for sure. Jack?
>
> Larry Stock had a car on the grass at Concorso that he was trying to sell;
> a rear wheel simply blew apart while the car was parked (!) and he had to
> tow it back to Nevada as it couldn't be fixed--it had cracked halfway
around.
> The other three wheels had similar cracks when they were taken apart and
> inspected.
>
> And Mad Dog's fire was indirectly caused by the failure of his Hall wheel;
> when the left rear wheel failed, the car fell down onto the freeway in Los
> Angeles. What wasn't seen was that during the collapse, the brake line
was
> damaged. MD swapped his stock wheels w/race tires on and ran the Silver
> State a day or two later, but when he stepped on the brakes at the finish
> line, the line ruptured, fluid sprayed onto the exhaust and the rest was
> history.
>
> And on and on and on...I'm sure there are many others.
>
> Those wheels were a very well-intentioned design but they were woefully
> under-engineered, and today should be related either to a display case, or
a
> recycling bin IMHO....
>
> So tell me exactly what kind of wheels you're talking about here, as the
> Coddington wheels (which I have aesthetic problems with, admittedly) are
> nothing like these Hall wheels at all.
>
>>>> ? ?? Just let a local guy soda blast two of them down to the green
>> primer,
>>> ? ?? I'll probably paint them Argent Silver and Clear them just to see
>> the
>>> ? ?? final results.
>>> ? ?? Photo attached.
>>
>>>> Since I didn't get your original e-mail, I didn't get the photo
> either....
>
> Cheers!
>
> Mike
> -------------- next part --------------
> In a message dated 1/10/16 21 39 38, davel at emspace.com writes:
>
> My 17" Hall wheels are a lot heavier than the mags.
> I think that's fine for street, but aren't you concerned about the
> unsprung weight for track use?
> dave
>
>>>> Interesting. This was apparently a reply to an original post by
> Michael Shortt, but that post never came through to me nor did it wind
> up in my spam folder?
> I'm noting some irregularities with the forum these days....anyway,
> thankfully Dave included Michael's original post, so see replies below:
>
>> On 1/08/16 9:17 PM, Michael Shortt wrote:
>> Greetings,
>>
>> After gathering all my wheels in one place and a brief
> inventory today,
>> I have 21 Campy wheels,
>
>>>> Uh...that's a lot. :>)
>
>> 5 Single Slots and a mixture of the 4 Double Slots and Zero
> Triple
>> Slots ( No 10") Plus 2 sets of 17" Boyd Coddington Wheels made
> for Hall
>> Pantera.
>
>>>> Uh, I don't think Coddington every made wheels for Hall? He did
> make them for several other vendors, in several different styles, some
> markedly better than others. Can you share some images perhaps to help
> in identification?
> Hall did have somebody cast up ten-spoke Si-looking wheels that were
> welded together, and perhaps Coddington was the source for those?
>
>>> And the 17" 10 spokes on the car now with 335/35 and 245/40.
>
>>>> What kind of wheels are those? 10 spokes is a pretty vague
> descriiption--although I admit I'm pretty certain how many spokes they
> have at least. :>)
>
>>
>> I am keeping the 10 spokes with PZeros for Street use,
>> And one set of the 17" Hall Wheels with 315/235 Kumhos for
> Rally and
>> Track use.
>
>>>> Wait--are you talking about Coddington Campagnolo clones, or Hall
> wheels which are three-piece, bolt-together affairs, with a fake center
> spinner? Those are as different as chalk and cheese (with the latter
> being the only genuinely suspect/dangerous wheels I've ever
> encountered).
>
>> I will be keeping the Single Slots for Concours with skinny
> Blackwalls
>> and a set of Double Slots with Vintage Arrivas for Photos,
> With a spare
>> Front and a Spare Rear in case of a boo boo.
>
>>>> Sounds good!
>
>>
>>> That leaves 2 full sets of double slot wheels to dispose of.
> Sell or
>> Trade. Photos Available.
>
>>>> Somebody just asked for a set--Guy Dellavecchia? What kind are
> they? Guy might want to trade his '71 two-slot wheels for some L-model
> wheels?
>
>> I'd love a Triple Slot set. Anybody have some?
>
>>>> I have only ever seen two of them (separately) in my life. These
> were an experimental wheel used on the first pushmobile prototype. I
> have no idea how many were put into production but I've never seen any
> other car wearing them, so I would have to imagine the number is very
> small indeed. Even 1006, the earliest known Pantera extant, had single
> slot wheels.
> So don't hold your breath waiting for a full set of three-slot wheels
> to appear. :>)
>
>> I will sort them this week by design, Thanks Mike Drew for the
> Campy
>> Wheel education.
>
>>>> It's my pleasure, but at this point I'm far more concerned about
> your aftermarket wheels. Simply put, I would never wish three-piece
> Hall wheels on my worst enemy, and especially not for track use. We
> collectively know about multiple failures, which always led to rapid
> deflation and a potential accident. Jack has often told of the car
> that was zorching down Mt. Charleston in Las Vegas at triple digit
> speeds one year when his Hall wheel dismantled himself; I believe it
> thrust the car into the scenery, but can't remember that aspect of the
> story for sure. Jack?
> Larry Stock had a car on the grass at Concorso that he was trying to
> sell; a rear wheel simply blew apart while the car was parked (!) and
> he had to tow it back to Nevada as it couldn't be fixed--it had cracked
> halfway around. The other three wheels had similar cracks when they
> were taken apart and inspected.
> And Mad Dog's fire was indirectly caused by the failure of his Hall
> wheel; when the left rear wheel failed, the car fell down onto the
> freeway in Los Angeles. What wasn't seen was that during the collapse,
> the brake line was damaged. MD swapped his stock wheels w/race tires
> on and ran the Silver State a day or two later, but when he stepped on
> the brakes at the finish line, the line ruptured, fluid sprayed onto
> the exhaust and the rest was history.
> And on and on and on...I'm sure there are many others.
> Those wheels were a very well-intentioned design but they were woefully
> under-engineered, and today should be related either to a display case,
> or a recycling bin IMHO....
> So tell me exactly what kind of wheels you're talking about here, as
> the Coddington wheels (which I have aesthetic problems with,
> admittedly) are nothing like these Hall wheels at all.
>
>>> Just let a local guy soda blast two of them down to the green
> primer,
>> I'll probably paint them Argent Silver and Clear them just to
> see the
>> final results.
>> Photo attached.
>
>>>> Since I didn't get your original e-mail, I didn't get the photo
> either....
> Cheers!
> Mike
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 12:23:56 -0800
> From: "Stephen" <steve at snclocks.com>
> To: <MikeLDrew at aol.com>, <gaino at earthlink.net>, <guson at home.se>
> Cc: <detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> Message-ID: <00d501d14e40$54625920$fd270b60$@snclocks.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> When I was going through my brakes I wanted to clean out the e-brake
> housings and the cables. So, I cut off the cable ends, took everything
> apart, took all the old plastic sheath off the housings, replaced with
heavy
> shrink-to-fit, cut the housings to be a better fit with less excess
length,
> lubed with graphite-impregnated grease, then put new ends on the cables to
> match the length that they needed to be. Went together very nicely.
>
>
>
> It would have been pretty much as simple to change length to match a front
> mounting for the originals, but would have likely required cutting a pair
of
> holes in the sheet metal - I hate extra holes.
>
>
>
> For what all that is worth.
>
>
>
> Stephen Nelson
>
>
>
>
>
> From: MikeLDrew at aol.com [mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2016 11:52 AM
> To: gaino at earthlink.net; steve at snclocks.com; guson at home.se
> Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
>
>
>
>
> In a message dated 1/13/16 9 15 10, gaino at earthlink.net
> <mailto:gaino at earthlink.net> writes:
>
>
>
>
>
> Is it possible to mount the stock calipers in the front position to use
> as Ebrake? He already has the Wilwoods installed and saftey wired on
> the rear mounts.
>
>
>
>>>> People who say 'yes' are forgetting about simple mechanics. The
calipers
> are actuated by cables which are introduced into the rear of the
wheelwell.
> If the calipers are repositioned the cables will no longer fit, plus if
> longer ones were used, they would foul the driveshafts on their way
forward.
> The only possible way to make a system like that work would be to
reposition
> the cables so they entered the wheelwells ahead of, instead of behind the
> hub carriers, and there would be a fair bit of engineering involved. I
> suppose it might be possible, but it certainly won't be a trivial
exercise.
>
> Mike
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> When I was going through my brakes I wanted to clean out the e-brake
> housings and the cables. So, I cut off the cable ends, took everything
> apart, took all the old plastic sheath off the housings, replaced with
> heavy shrink-to-fit, cut the housings to be a better fit with less
> excess length, lubed with graphite-impregnated grease, then put new
> ends on the cables to match the length that they needed to be. Went
> together very nicely.
>
>
> It would have been pretty much as simple to change length to match a
> front mounting for the originals, but would have likely required
> cutting a pair of holes in the sheet metal - I hate extra holes...
>
>
> For what all that is worth.
>
>
> Stephen Nelson
>
>
>
> From: MikeLDrew at aol.com [mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2016 11:52 AM
> To: gaino at earthlink.net; steve at snclocks.com; guson at home.se
> Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
>
>
> In a message dated 1/13/16 9 15 10, [1]gaino at earthlink.net writes:
>
> Is it possible to mount the stock calipers in the front position
> to use
> as Ebrake? He already has the Wilwoods installed and saftey
> wired on
> the rear mounts.
>
>>>> People who say 'yes' are forgetting about simple mechanics. The
> calipers are actuated by cables which are introduced into the rear of
> the wheelwell. If the calipers are repositioned the cables will no
> longer fit, plus if longer ones were used, they would foul the
> driveshafts on their way forward. The only possible way to make a
> system like that work would be to reposition the cables so they entered
> the wheelwells ahead of, instead of behind the hub carriers, and there
> would be a fair bit of engineering involved. I suppose it might be
> possible, but it certainly won't be a trivial exercise.
> Mike
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 21:07:23 +0000
> From: L GRAY <tipo874a at msn.com>
> To: "MikeLDrew at aol.com" <MikeLDrew at aol.com>
> Cc: "guson at home.se" <guson at home.se>, "gaino at earthlink.net"
> <gaino at earthlink.net>, "detomaso at poca.com" <detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> Message-ID:
>
<BLUPR19MB0163500785FD9792060E49A29DCB0 at BLUPR19MB0163.namprd19.prod.outlook.
com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
> Hate to disagree here Mike. The only uprights that were produced for a
Pantera that were right or left handed were "some" of Hall Pantera's
aluminum uprights, and they originally had mounts on front and rear. For
some reason later on in production they were built without both sets of
ears.......... never understood why .......as you said dumb idea !!
> The Group 4 uprights were manufactured with both sets of ears. Some
of you may not know that the GT 5 and the GT 5-S rear uprights were taken
from the competition Group 4 spares inventory.
>
> Leslie A. Gray
>
>> On Jan 13, 2016, at 12:53 PM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
wrote:
>>
>> In a message dated 1/13/16 11 28 28, guson at home.se writes:
>>
>> Yes Bill, most likely. I have installed calipers on the front side
>> of
>> the uprights, the holes were threaded and all. I think I heard that
>> not
>> all uprights are drilled front and back but it may be that only
>> newer
>> cars that suffer from that.
>>
>>>>> True--the GT5/GT5-S uprights are 'handed' with mounting holes only
>> on one side (which, when you think about it, is really dumb from a
>> production standpoint).
>> Mike
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use
the links above.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 16:20:31 -0500
> From: Michael Shortt <michaelsavga at gmail.com>
> To: 576103 <MikeLDrew at aol.com>
> Cc: Dave Londry <davel at emspace.com>, "detomaso at poca.com"
> <detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Campagnolo Wheels
> Message-ID:
> <CAEWtxWrnqwjnrhKaKWzkxyc4SnmmwfoeAk1gHft7eVUsB=Di5Q at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> none of my wheels are assembled ( fasteners) 3 piece wheels, all are
welded
> or billet.
>
> I have driven on the wheels on street, on track and on the Tail of the
> Dragon and have had zero issues in 12 years with 2 different designs,
> not sure who mad ethe current wheels ( 10 spoke ), but they show no signs
> of stress, damage either.
>
> It may be my luck, it could be others bad luck, it could be misuse and
> driving style.
>
> My Dad owned 3 Audi 5000's, he never had any issues either, maybe because
> he never pressed the gas instead of the brake.
>
>
> Michael Shortt
>
>> On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 3:19 PM, <MikeLDrew at aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 1/10/16 21 39 38, davel at emspace.com writes:
>>
>>
>>
>> My 17" Hall wheels are a lot heavier than the mags.
>> I think that's fine for street, but aren't you concerned about the
>> unsprung weight for track use?
>> dave
>>
>>
>>>>> Interesting. This was apparently a reply to an original post by
>> Michael Shortt, but that post never came through to me nor did it wind up
>> in my spam folder?
>>
>> I'm noting some irregularities with the forum these days....anyway,
>> thankfully Dave included Michael's original post, so see replies below:
>>
>>
>>> On 1/08/16 9:17 PM, Michael Shortt wrote:
>>> Greetings,
>>>
>>> After gathering all my wheels in one place and a brief inventory
>> today,
>>> I have 21 Campy wheels,
>>
>>>>> Uh...that's a lot. :>)
>>
>>
>>
>>> 5 Single Slots and a mixture of the 4 Double Slots and Zero Triple
>>> Slots ( No 10") Plus 2 sets of 17" Boyd Coddington Wheels made for
>> Hall
>>> Pantera.
>>
>>
>>>>> Uh, I don't think Coddington every made wheels for Hall? He did make
>> them for several other vendors, in several different styles, some
markedly
>> better than others. Can you share some images perhaps to help in
>> identification?
>>
>> Hall did have somebody cast up ten-spoke Si-looking wheels that were
>> welded together, and perhaps Coddington was the source for those?
>>
>>>> And the 17" 10 spokes on the car now with 335/35 and 245/40.
>>
>>>>> What kind of wheels are those? 10 spokes is a pretty vague
>> descriiption--although I admit I'm pretty certain how many spokes they
have
>> at least. :>)
>>
>>>
>>> I am keeping the 10 spokes with PZeros for Street use,
>>> And one set of the 17" Hall Wheels with 315/235 Kumhos for Rally and
>>> Track use.
>>
>>>>> Wait--are you talking about Coddington Campagnolo clones, or Hall
>> wheels which are three-piece, bolt-together affairs, with a fake center
>> spinner? Those are as different as chalk and cheese (with the latter
being
>> the only genuinely suspect/dangerous wheels I've ever encountered).
>>
>>
>>> I will be keeping the Single Slots for Concours with skinny
>> Blackwalls
>>> and a set of Double Slots with Vintage Arrivas for Photos, With a
>> spare
>>> Front and a Spare Rear in case of a boo boo.
>>
>>>>> Sounds good!
>>
>>>
>>>> That leaves 2 full sets of double slot wheels to dispose of. Sell or
>>> Trade. Photos Available.
>>
>>>>> Somebody just asked for a set--Guy Dellavecchia? What kind are they?
>> Guy might want to trade his '71 two-slot wheels for some L-model wheels?
>>
>>> I'd love a Triple Slot set. Anybody have some?
>>
>>>>> I have only ever seen two of them (separately) in my life. These were
>> an experimental wheel used on the first pushmobile prototype. I have no
>> idea how many were put into production but I've never seen any other car
>> wearing them, so I would have to imagine the number is very small indeed.
>> Even 1006, the earliest known Pantera extant, had single slot wheels.
>>
>> So don't hold your breath waiting for a full set of three-slot wheels to
>> appear. :>)
>>
>>> I will sort them this week by design, Thanks Mike Drew for the Campy
>>> Wheel education.
>>
>>>>> It's my pleasure, but at this point I'm far more concerned about your
>> aftermarket wheels. Simply put, I would never wish three-piece Hall
wheels
>> on my worst enemy, and especially not for track use. We collectively
know
>> about multiple failures, which always led to rapid deflation and a
>> potential accident. Jack has often told of the car that was zorching
down
>> Mt. Charleston in Las Vegas at triple digit speeds one year when his Hall
>> wheel dismantled himself; I believe it thrust the car into the scenery,
but
>> can't remember that aspect of the story for sure. Jack?
>>
>> Larry Stock had a car on the grass at Concorso that he was trying to
sell;
>> a rear wheel simply blew apart while the car was parked (!) and he had to
>> tow it back to Nevada as it couldn't be fixed--it had cracked halfway
>> around. The other three wheels had similar cracks when they were taken
>> apart and inspected.
>>
>> And Mad Dog's fire was indirectly caused by the failure of his Hall
wheel;
>> when the left rear wheel failed, the car fell down onto the freeway in
Los
>> Angeles. What wasn't seen was that during the collapse, the brake line
was
>> damaged. MD swapped his stock wheels w/race tires on and ran the Silver
>> State a day or two later, but when he stepped on the brakes at the finish
>> line, the line ruptured, fluid sprayed onto the exhaust and the rest was
>> history.
>>
>> And on and on and on...I'm sure there are many others.
>>
>> Those wheels were a very well-intentioned design but they were woefully
>> under-engineered, and today should be related either to a display case,
or
>> a recycling bin IMHO....
>>
>> So tell me exactly what kind of wheels you're talking about here, as the
>> Coddington wheels (which I have aesthetic problems with, admittedly) are
>> nothing like these Hall wheels at all.
>>
>>>> Just let a local guy soda blast two of them down to the green
>> primer,
>>> I'll probably paint them Argent Silver and Clear them just to see the
>>> final results.
>>> Photo attached.
>>
>>>>> Since I didn't get your original e-mail, I didn't get the photo
>> either....
>>
>> Cheers!
>>
>> Mike
>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Michael L. Shortt
> Savannah, Georgia
> www.michaelshortt.com
> michael at michaelshortt.com
> 912-232-9390
>
>
> This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy
> Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally
> privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby
notified
> that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this
> communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you
> have received this message in error, then delete it. Thank you
> -------------- next part --------------
> none of my wheels are assembled ( fasteners) 3 piece wheels, all are
> welded or billet.
> I have driven on the wheels on street, on track and on the Tail of the
> Dragon and have had zero issues in 12 years with 2 different designs,
> not sure who mad ethe current wheels ( 10 spoke ), but they show no
> signs of stress, damage either.
> It may be my luck, it could be others bad luck, it could be misuse and
> driving style.
> My Dad owned 3 Audi 5000's, he never had any issues either, maybe
> because he never pressed the gas instead of the brake.
> Michael Shortt
>
> On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 3:19 PM, <[1]MikeLDrew at aol.com> wrote:
>
> In a message dated 1/10/16 21 39 38, [2]davel at emspace.com writes:
> My 17" Hall wheels are a lot heavier than the mags.
> I think that's fine for street, but aren't you concerned about the
> unsprung weight for track use?
> dave
>>>> Interesting.A This was apparently a reply to an original post by
> Michael Shortt, but that post never came through to me nor did it
> wind up in my spam folder?
> I'm noting some irregularities with the forum these days....anyway,
> thankfully Dave included Michael's original post, so see replies
> below:
>> On 1/08/16 9:17 PM, Michael Shortt wrote:
>> A A A Greetings,
>>
>> A A A After gathering all my wheels in one place and a brief
> inventory today,
>> A A A I have 21 Campy wheels,
>>>> Uh...that's a lot. :>)
>
>> A A A 5 Single Slots and a mixture of the 4 Double Slots and Zero
> Triple
>> A A A Slots ( No 10") Plus 2 sets of 17" Boyd Coddington Wheels
> made for Hall
>> A A A Pantera.
>>>> Uh, I don't think Coddington every made wheels for Hall?A He did
> make them for several other vendors, in several different styles,
> some markedly better than others.A Can you share some images
> perhaps to help in identification?
> Hall did have somebody cast up ten-spoke Si-looking wheels that were
> welded together, and perhaps Coddington was the source for those?
>
>>> A A A And the 17" 10 spokes on the car now with 335/35 and
> 245/40.
>>>> What kind of wheels are those?A 10 spokes is a pretty vague
> descriiption--although I admit I'm pretty certain how many spokes
> they have at least. :>)
>
>>
>> A A A I am keeping the 10 spokes with PZeros for Street use,
>> A A A And one set of the 17" Hall Wheels with 315/235 Kumhos for
> Rally and
>> A A A Track use.
>>>> Wait--are you talking about Coddington Campagnolo clones, or Hall
> wheels which are three-piece, bolt-together affairs, with a fake
> center spinner?A Those are as different as chalk and cheese (with
> the latter being the only genuinely suspect/dangerous wheels I've
> ever encountered).
>
>> A A A I will be keeping the Single Slots for Concours with skinny
> Blackwalls
>> A A A and a set of Double Slots with Vintage Arrivas for Photos,
> With a spare
>> A A A Front and a Spare Rear in case of a boo boo.
>>>> Sounds good!A
>
>>
>>> A A A That leaves 2 full sets of double slot wheels to dispose
> of. Sell or
>> A A A Trade. Photos Available.
>>>> Somebody just asked for a set--Guy Dellavecchia?A What kind are
> they?A Guy might want to trade his '71 two-slot wheels for some
> L-model wheels?
>
>> A A A I'd love a Triple Slot set. Anybody have some?
>>>> I have only ever seen two of them (separately) in my life.A
> These were an experimental wheel used on the first pushmobile
> prototype.A I have no idea how many were put into production but
> I've never seen any other car wearing them, so I would have to
> imagine the number is very small indeed.A Even 1006, the earliest
> known Pantera extant, had single slot wheels.
> So don't hold your breath waiting for a full set of three-slot
> wheels to appear. :>)
>
>> I will sort them this week by design, Thanks Mike Drew for the
> Campy
>> A A A Wheel education.
>>>> It's my pleasure, but at this point I'm far more concerned about
> your aftermarket wheels.A Simply put, I would never wish
> three-piece Hall wheels on my worst enemy, and especially not for
> track use.A We collectively know about multiple failures, which
> always led to rapid deflation and a potential accident.A Jack has
> often told of the car that was zorching down Mt. Charleston in Las
> Vegas at triple digit speeds one year when his Hall wheel dismantled
> himself; I believe it thrust the car into the scenery, but can't
> remember that aspect of the story for sure.A Jack?
> Larry Stock had a car on the grass at Concorso that he was trying to
> sell; a rear wheel simply blew apart while the car was parked (!)
> and he had to tow it back to Nevada as it couldn't be fixed--it had
> cracked halfway around.A The other three wheels had similar cracks
> when they were taken apart and inspected.
> And Mad Dog's fire was indirectly caused by the failure of his Hall
> wheel; when the left rear wheel failed, the car fell down onto the
> freeway in Los Angeles.A What wasn't seen was that during the
> collapse, the brake line was damaged.A MD swapped his stock wheels
> w/race tires on and ran the Silver State a day or two later, but
> when he stepped on the brakes at the finish line, the line ruptured,
> fluid sprayed onto the exhaust and the rest was history.
> And on and on and on...I'm sure there are many others.
> Those wheels were a very well-intentioned design but they were
> woefully under-engineered, and today should be related either to a
> display case, or a recycling bin IMHO....
> So tell me exactly what kind of wheels you're talking about here, as
> the Coddington wheels (which I have aesthetic problems with,
> admittedly) are nothing like these Hall wheels at all.
>>> A A A Just let a local guy soda blast two of them down to the
> green primer,
>> A A A I'll probably paint them Argent Silver and Clear them just
> to see the
>> A A A final results.
>> A A A Photo attached.
>>
>>>> Since I didn't get your original e-mail, I didn't get the photo
> either....
> Cheers!
> Mike
>
> --
> Michael L. Shortt
> Savannah, Georgia
> [3]www.michaelshortt.com
> [4]michael at michaelshortt.com
> 912-232-9390
> A
> This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy
> Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally
> privileged.A If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby
> notified
> that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this
> communication is strictly prohibited.A Please reply to the sender that
> you
> have received this message in error, then delete it.A Thank you
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
> 2. mailto:davel at emspace.com
> 3. http://www.michaelshortt.com/
> 4. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 13:23:36 -0800
> From: "Tomas Gunnarsson" <guson at home.se>
> To: <MikeLDrew at aol.com>
> Cc: <gaino at earthlink.net>, <detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> Message-ID: <F6F0EDD7F26440B0970C3CD2C70F6033 at mail2world.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Mike,
>
> Bill originally wrote: Something that that blocks fluid in the brake
> lines to hold calipers pressed against the rotors.
>
>
> Aka line loc.
>
>
> OEM electric parking brakes work by having an electric motor actuate the
> brake via a mechanical device, like a wire.
>
>
> Tomas
>
>
>
> <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
>
> From: Mike Drew via DeTomaso [detomaso at poca.com]
> Sent: 13/1/2016 8:51:53 PM
> To: guson at home.se;gaino at earthlink.net
> Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
>
>
> In a message dated 1/13/16 8 03 59, guson at home.se writes:
>
>
>> That's simply not a good solution. Doesn't work as an emergency brake
>> and parking brake function is dubious. If you park your car with the
>> brakes hot they may release when they cool off.
>
>>>> Tomas, you're talking about a simple line lock. He's asking about an
> (electrical) solenoid-operated system, which was pioneered by the OEMs
> and is
> in wide use (and is, significantly, sufficiently effective to satisfy
> government regulations worldwide). Such systems are now available in the
> aftermarket.
>
> I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems work by
> pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple mechanical
> 'arm' that
> is pulling on a mechanical parking brake? Does anybody know that for
> sure?
>
> You're correct in asserting that a simple line lock is insufficient to
> hold
> a car for any length of time; they are designed for very short-term use
> only. Geoff Peters' Pantera nearly missed (by less than an inch)
> crashing
> into an Aston Martin DB4 when he let a friend borrow it and the fool
> parked it
> overnight on a slope in neutral with the line lock engaged. As the
> brakes
> cooled at night, they released and the car rolled through a lot crowded
> with
> collector cars, brushed past the Aston and crashed through a hedge and
> down
> into a ditch! Fortunately it was unhurt, but it could have been very bad
> indeed.
>
> A solenoid-type system that actuated the brake hydraulics would be much
> more effective because it has its own master cylinder that would still
> hold
> pressure even as the fluid cooled. However, it would not serve as a
> proper
> emergency brake if there was a hydraulic failure (say, a seal blew out
> in a
> caliper) whereas a cable-type system that mechanically leverages the
> components of the caliper requires no hydraulics to work.
>
> Mike (who has had no parking brake at all for the past 30 years...park
> wisely and hope for the best!)
> -------------- next part --------------
> Mike,
>
> Bill originally wrote: Something that that blocks fluid in the brake
> lines to hold calipers pressed against the rotors.
>
> Aka line loc.
>
> OEM electric parking brakes work by having an electric motor actuate
> the brake via a mechanical device, like a wire.
>
> Tomas
> <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
> From: Mike Drew via DeTomaso [detomaso at poca.com]
> Sent: 13/1/2016 8:51:53 PM
> To: guson at home.se;gaino at earthlink.net
> Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> In a message dated 1/13/16 8 03 59, guson at home.se writes:
>> That's simply not a good solution. Doesn't work as an emergency brake
>> and parking brake function is dubious. If you park your car with the
>> brakes hot they may release when they cool off.
>>
>>>> Tomas, you're talking about a simple line lock. He's asking about an
> (electrical) solenoid-operated system, which was pioneered by the OEMs
> and is
> in wide use (and is, significantly, sufficiently effective to satisfy
> government regulations worldwide). Such systems are now available in
> the
> aftermarket.
> I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems work by
> pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple mechanical
> 'arm' that
> is pulling on a mechanical parking brake? Does anybody know that for
> sure?
> You're correct in asserting that a simple line lock is insufficient to
> hold
> a car for any length of time; they are designed for very short-term use
> only. Geoff Peters' Pantera nearly missed (by less than an inch)
> crashing
> into an Aston Martin DB4 when he let a friend borrow it and the fool
> parked it
> overnight on a slope in neutral with the line lock engaged. As the
> brakes
> cooled at night, they released and the car rolled through a lot crowded
> with
> collector cars, brushed past the Aston and crashed through a hedge and
> down
> into a ditch! Fortunately it was unhurt, but it could have been very
> bad
> indeed.
> A solenoid-type system that actuated the brake hydraulics would be much
> more effective because it has its own master cylinder that would still
> hold
> pressure even as the fluid cooled. However, it would not serve as a
> proper
> emergency brake if there was a hydraulic failure (say, a seal blew out
> in a
> caliper) whereas a cable-type system that mechanically leverages the
> components of the caliper requires no hydraulics to work.
> Mike (who has had no parking brake at all for the past 30 years...park
> wisely and hope for the best!)
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 13:30:22 -0800
> From: Larry Stock <larrys at panteraparts.com>
> To: <MikeLDrew at aol.com>, <davel at emspace.com>, <detomaso at poca.com>,
> <michael at michaelshortt.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Campagnolo Wheels
> Message-ID: <D2BC0041.15C59F%larrys at panteraparts.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
>
> I am taking in a set of 8?s and 10?s X15? Campy?s with new tires next week
> on a sale and trade I am doing. Since you guys are talking about these, I
> am going to have a set available in the next week or so.
> E-mail me for more info and details.
> Larrys at PanteraParts.com (1-800-DeTomaso) 800-338-6627
>
>
> On 1/13/16, 12:19 PM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Mike Drew via DeTomaso"
> <detomaso-bounces at poca.com on behalf of detomaso at poca.com> wrote:
>
>> In a message dated 1/10/16 21 39 38, davel at emspace.com writes:
>>
>> My 17" Hall wheels are a lot heavier than the mags.
>> I think that's fine for street, but aren't you concerned about the
>> unsprung weight for track use?
>> dave
>>
>>>>> Interesting. This was apparently a reply to an original post by
>> Michael Shortt, but that post never came through to me nor did it wind
>> up in my spam folder?
>> I'm noting some irregularities with the forum these days....anyway,
>> thankfully Dave included Michael's original post, so see replies below:
>>
>>> On 1/08/16 9:17 PM, Michael Shortt wrote:
>>> Greetings,
>>>
>>> After gathering all my wheels in one place and a brief
>> inventory today,
>>> I have 21 Campy wheels,
>>
>>>>> Uh...that's a lot. :>)
>>
>>> 5 Single Slots and a mixture of the 4 Double Slots and Zero
>> Triple
>>> Slots ( No 10") Plus 2 sets of 17" Boyd Coddington Wheels made
>> for Hall
>>> Pantera.
>>
>>>>> Uh, I don't think Coddington every made wheels for Hall? He did
>> make them for several other vendors, in several different styles, some
>> markedly better than others. Can you share some images perhaps to help
>> in identification?
>> Hall did have somebody cast up ten-spoke Si-looking wheels that were
>> welded together, and perhaps Coddington was the source for those?
>>
>>>> And the 17" 10 spokes on the car now with 335/35 and 245/40.
>>
>>>>> What kind of wheels are those? 10 spokes is a pretty vague
>> descriiption--although I admit I'm pretty certain how many spokes they
>> have at least. :>)
>>
>>>
>>> I am keeping the 10 spokes with PZeros for Street use,
>>> And one set of the 17" Hall Wheels with 315/235 Kumhos for
>> Rally and
>>> Track use.
>>
>>>>> Wait--are you talking about Coddington Campagnolo clones, or Hall
>> wheels which are three-piece, bolt-together affairs, with a fake center
>> spinner? Those are as different as chalk and cheese (with the latter
>> being the only genuinely suspect/dangerous wheels I've ever
>> encountered).
>>
>>> I will be keeping the Single Slots for Concours with skinny
>> Blackwalls
>>> and a set of Double Slots with Vintage Arrivas for Photos,
>> With a spare
>>> Front and a Spare Rear in case of a boo boo.
>>
>>>>> Sounds good!
>>
>>>
>>>> That leaves 2 full sets of double slot wheels to dispose of.
>> Sell or
>>> Trade. Photos Available.
>>
>>>>> Somebody just asked for a set--Guy Dellavecchia? What kind are
>> they? Guy might want to trade his '71 two-slot wheels for some L-model
>> wheels?
>>
>>> I'd love a Triple Slot set. Anybody have some?
>>
>>>>> I have only ever seen two of them (separately) in my life. These
>> were an experimental wheel used on the first pushmobile prototype. I
>> have no idea how many were put into production but I've never seen any
>> other car wearing them, so I would have to imagine the number is very
>> small indeed. Even 1006, the earliest known Pantera extant, had single
>> slot wheels.
>> So don't hold your breath waiting for a full set of three-slot wheels
>> to appear. :>)
>>
>>> I will sort them this week by design, Thanks Mike Drew for the
>> Campy
>>> Wheel education.
>>
>>>>> It's my pleasure, but at this point I'm far more concerned about
>> your aftermarket wheels. Simply put, I would never wish three-piece
>> Hall wheels on my worst enemy, and especially not for track use. We
>> collectively know about multiple failures, which always led to rapid
>> deflation and a potential accident. Jack has often told of the car
>> that was zorching down Mt. Charleston in Las Vegas at triple digit
>> speeds one year when his Hall wheel dismantled himself; I believe it
>> thrust the car into the scenery, but can't remember that aspect of the
>> story for sure. Jack?
>> Larry Stock had a car on the grass at Concorso that he was trying to
>> sell; a rear wheel simply blew apart while the car was parked (!) and
>> he had to tow it back to Nevada as it couldn't be fixed--it had cracked
>> halfway around. The other three wheels had similar cracks when they
>> were taken apart and inspected.
>> And Mad Dog's fire was indirectly caused by the failure of his Hall
>> wheel; when the left rear wheel failed, the car fell down onto the
>> freeway in Los Angeles. What wasn't seen was that during the collapse,
>> the brake line was damaged. MD swapped his stock wheels w/race tires
>> on and ran the Silver State a day or two later, but when he stepped on
>> the brakes at the finish line, the line ruptured, fluid sprayed onto
>> the exhaust and the rest was history.
>> And on and on and on...I'm sure there are many others.
>> Those wheels were a very well-intentioned design but they were woefully
>> under-engineered, and today should be related either to a display case,
>> or a recycling bin IMHO....
>> So tell me exactly what kind of wheels you're talking about here, as
>> the Coddington wheels (which I have aesthetic problems with,
>> admittedly) are nothing like these Hall wheels at all.
>>
>>>> Just let a local guy soda blast two of them down to the green
>> primer,
>>> I'll probably paint them Argent Silver and Clear them just to
>> see the
>>> final results.
>>> Photo attached.
>>
>>>>> Since I didn't get your original e-mail, I didn't get the photo
>> either....
>> Cheers!
>> Mike
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use
>> the links above.
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 22:53:34 +0100
> From: Charles McCall <charlesmccall at gmail.com>
> To: <MikeLDrew at aol.com>, <guson at home.se>, <gaino at earthlink.net>,
> <detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> Message-ID: <00fd01d14e4c$dac3a170$904ae450$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems work by
> pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple mechanical
'arm'
> that
> is pulling on a mechanical parking brake? Does anybody know that for
sure?
> ****Audis use a mechanical parking brake actuated by a solenoid - the
second
> case. They do not pressurize the fluid in the line. They have some
> electronics to ease the brake on if you are moving, but actuating it at
any
> speed locks up your brakes. They are either on or off.
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 14:02:11 -0800
> From: "Tomas Gunnarsson" <guson at home.se>
> To: <charlesmccall at gmail.com>
> Cc: <detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> Message-ID: <72F2415F8F0A41A0BC5857747006BB5D at mail2world.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> It is more likely a linear actuator driven by a motor. A solenoid would
> not be good as it would need to draw current for the whole time the
> brakes are on. You can probably hear the motor whine when you flip the
> switch (or whatever) and then it goes silent when the brakes are on/off.
> Where there's legislation requiring a parking brake it's usually also a
> requirement that it's mechanically actuated, hydraulics are not allowed.
>
> Tomas
>
>
>
> <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
>
> From: Charles McCall [charlesmccall at gmail.com]
> Sent: 13/1/2016 10:53:34 PM
> To:
> MikeLDrew at aol.com;guson at home.se;gaino at earthlink.net;detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
>
> I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems work by
> pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple mechanical
> 'arm'
> that
> is pulling on a mechanical parking brake? Does anybody know that for
> sure?
> ****Audis use a mechanical parking brake actuated by a solenoid - the
> second
> case. They do not pressurize the fluid in the line. They have some
> electronics to ease the brake on if you are moving, but actuating it at
> any
> speed locks up your brakes. They are either on or off.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com <http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com>
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> use the links above.
> .
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> It is more likely a linear actuator driven by a motor. A solenoid would
> not be good as it would need to draw current for the whole time the
> brakes are on. You can probably hear the motor whine when you flip the
> switch (or whatever) and then it goes silent when the brakes are
> on/off. Where there's legislation requiring a parking brake it's
> usually also a requirement that it's mechanically actuated, hydraulics
> are not allowed.
>
> Tomas
> <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
> From: Charles McCall [charlesmccall at gmail.com]
> Sent: 13/1/2016 10:53:34 PM
> To:
> MikeLDrew at aol.com;guson at home.se;gaino at earthlink.net;detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems work by
> pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple mechanical
> 'arm'
> that
> is pulling on a mechanical parking brake? Does anybody know that for
> sure?
> ****Audis use a mechanical parking brake actuated by a solenoid - the
> second
> case. They do not pressurize the fluid in the line. They have some
> electronics to ease the brake on if you are moving, but actuating it at
> any
> speed locks up your brakes. They are either on or off.
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> use the links above.
> .
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 23:04:27 +0100
> From: Charles McCall <charlesmccall at gmail.com>
> To: "'Tomas Gunnarsson'" <guson at home.se>
> Cc: <detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> Message-ID: <010701d14e4e$5fc90440$1f5b0cc0$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Sorry, you are correct that it is a linear actuator. I answered quickly.
In
> any case, it is a mechanical actuator and not pressurizing the hydraulic
> line.
>
>
>
> From: Tomas Gunnarsson [mailto:guson at home.se]
> Sent: mi?rcoles, 13 de enero de 2016 23:02
> To: charlesmccall at gmail.com
> Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
>
>
>
> It is more likely a linear actuator driven by a motor. A solenoid would
not
> be good as it would need to draw current for the whole time the brakes are
> on. You can probably hear the motor whine when you flip the switch (or
> whatever) and then it goes silent when the brakes are on/off. Where
there's
> legislation requiring a parking brake it's usually also a requirement that
> it's mechanically actuated, hydraulics are not allowed.
>
>
>
> Tomas
>
>
>
> <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Charles McCall [charlesmccall at gmail.com]
> Sent: 13/1/2016 10:53:34 PM
> To: MikeLDrew at aol.com;guson at home.se;gaino at earthlink.net;detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
>
> I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems work by
> pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple mechanical
'arm'
>
> that
> is pulling on a mechanical parking brake? Does anybody know that for sure?
> ****Audis use a mechanical parking brake actuated by a solenoid - the
second
>
> case. They do not pressurize the fluid in the line. They have some
> electronics to ease the brake on if you are moving, but actuating it at
any
> speed locks up your brakes. They are either on or off.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com <http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com>
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use
> the links above.
> .
>
>
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> Sorry, you are correct that it is a linear actuator. I answered
> quickly. In any case, it is a mechanical actuator and not pressurizing
> the hydraulic line.
>
>
> From: Tomas Gunnarsson [mailto:guson at home.se]
> Sent: miercoles, 13 de enero de 2016 23:02
> To: charlesmccall at gmail.com
> Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
>
>
> It is more likely a linear actuator driven by a motor. A solenoid would
> not be good as it would need to draw current for the whole time the
> brakes are on. You can probably hear the motor whine when you flip the
> switch (or whatever) and then it goes silent when the brakes are
> on/off. Where there's legislation requiring a parking brake it's
> usually also a requirement that it's mechanically actuated, hydraulics
> are not allowed.
>
>
> Tomas
>
> <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
>
>
>
> From: Charles McCall [charlesmccall at gmail.com]
> Sent: 13/1/2016 10:53:34 PM
> To:
> [1]MikeLDrew at aol.com;guson at home.se;gaino at earthlink.net;detomaso at poca.co
> m
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems work by
> pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple mechanical
> 'arm'
> that
> is pulling on a mechanical parking brake? Does anybody know that for
> sure?
> ****Audis use a mechanical parking brake actuated by a solenoid - the
> second
> case. They do not pressurize the fluid in the line. They have some
> electronics to ease the brake on if you are moving, but actuating it at
> any
> speed locks up your brakes. They are either on or off.
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [2]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [3]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> use the links above.
> .
>
> References
>
> 1.
mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com;guson at home.se;gaino at earthlink.net;detomaso at poca.com
> 2. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 3. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 23:09:38 +0100
> From: Thomas Tornblom <thomas at hax.se>
> To: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> Message-ID: <5696CB22.5070902 at hax.se>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>
> I believe VW electric parking brake have an electric motor directly on
> the caliper, no cables.
>
>
> Den 2016-01-13 22:53, Charles McCall skrev:
>> I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems work by
>> pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple mechanical
'arm'
>> that
>> is pulling on a mechanical parking brake? Does anybody know that for
sure?
>> ****Audis use a mechanical parking brake actuated by a solenoid - the
second
>> case. They do not pressurize the fluid in the line. They have some
>> electronics to ease the brake on if you are moving, but actuating it at
any
>> speed locks up your brakes. They are either on or off.
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use
the links above.
>>
>> !DSPAM:5696c7e73519021468!
>
>
> --
> Real life: Thomas T?rnblom Email: thomas at hax.se
> Snail mail: Banvallsv?gen 14 Phone: +46 18 32 31 18
> S - 754 40 Uppsala, Sweden Mobile: +46 76 209 8320
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 22:15:16 +0000 (UTC)
> From: marshall smith <marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
> To: <davel at emspace.com>, <detomaso at poca.com>,
> <michael at michaelshortt.com>, <MikeLDrew at aol.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Campagnolo Wheels
> Message-ID:
> <621399975.3851038.1452723316243.JavaMail.yahoo at mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> FYI....
>
> I have 17 inch Hall 10 spoke wheels. They have welded centers and came
with a center hub that had a dummy spinner and cone that covered the lug
nuts or you could delete the cone and go with exposed lug nuts.
> I was told that Boyd made these. Hall called them Mark 10s as I recall.
>
> Marshall
> --------------------------------------------
> On Wed, 1/13/16, Mike Drew via DeTomaso <detomaso at poca.com> wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Campagnolo Wheels
> To: davel at emspace.com, detomaso at poca.com, michael at michaelshortt.com
> Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2016, 12:19 PM
>
> ???In a message dated
> 1/10/16 21 39 38, davel at emspace.com
> writes:
>
> ? ???My 17" Hall wheels are a lot
> heavier than the mags.
> ? ???I think that's fine for street, but
> aren't you concerned about the
> ? ???unsprung weight for track use?
> ? ???dave
>
> ???>>>Interesting.? This was
> apparently a reply to an original post by
> ???Michael Shortt, but that post never came
> through to me nor did it wind
> ???up in my spam folder?
> ???I'm noting some irregularities with the
> forum these days....anyway,
> ???thankfully Dave included Michael's
> original post, so see replies below:
>
> ? ???On 1/08/16 9:17 PM, Michael Shortt
> wrote:
> ? ???>?
> ???Greetings,
> ? ???>
> ? ???>? ???After
> gathering all my wheels in one place and a brief
> ? ???inventory today,
> ? ???>? ???I have
> 21 Campy wheels,
>
> ???>>>Uh...that's a lot. :>)
>
> ? ???>? ???5
> Single Slots and a mixture of the 4 Double Slots and Zero
> ? ???Triple
> ? ???>? ???Slots
> ( No 10") Plus 2 sets of 17" Boyd Coddington Wheels made
> ? ???for Hall
> ? ???>?
> ???Pantera.
>
> ???>>>Uh, I don't think Coddington
> every made wheels for Hall?? He did
> ???make them for several other vendors, in
> several different styles, some
> ???markedly better than others.? Can you
> share some images perhaps to help
> ???in identification?
> ???Hall did have somebody cast up ten-spoke
> Si-looking wheels that were
> ???welded together, and perhaps Coddington
> was the source for those?
>
> ? ???>>?
> ???And the 17" 10 spokes on the car now with
> 335/35 and 245/40.
>
> ???>>>What kind of wheels are
> those?? 10 spokes is a pretty vague
> ???descriiption--although I admit I'm pretty
> certain how many spokes they
> ???have at least. :>)
>
> ? ???>
> ? ???>? ???I am
> keeping the 10 spokes with PZeros for Street use,
> ? ???>? ???And
> one set of the 17" Hall Wheels with 315/235 Kumhos for
> ? ???Rally and
> ? ???>? ???Track
> use.
>
> ???>>>Wait--are you talking about
> Coddington Campagnolo clones, or Hall
> ???wheels which are three-piece,
> bolt-together affairs, with a fake center
> ???spinner?? Those are as different as
> chalk and cheese (with the latter
> ???being the only genuinely suspect/dangerous
> wheels I've ever
> ???encountered).
>
> ? ???>? ???I will
> be keeping the Single Slots for Concours with skinny
> ? ???Blackwalls
> ? ???>? ???and a
> set of Double Slots with Vintage Arrivas for Photos,
> ? ???With a spare
> ? ???>? ???Front
> and a Spare Rear in case of a boo boo.
>
> ???>>>Sounds good!
>
> ? ???>
> ? ???>>?
> ???That leaves 2 full sets of double slot
> wheels to dispose of.
> ? ???Sell or
> ? ???>? ???Trade.
> Photos Available.
>
> ???>>>Somebody just asked for a
> set--Guy Dellavecchia?? What kind are
> ???they?? Guy might want to trade his
> '71 two-slot wheels for some L-model
> ???wheels?
>
> ? ???>? ???I'd
> love a Triple Slot set. Anybody have some?
>
> ???>>>I have only ever seen two of
> them (separately) in my life.? These
> ???were an experimental wheel used on the
> first pushmobile prototype.? I
> ???have no idea how many were put into
> production but I've never seen any
> ???other car wearing them, so I would have to
> imagine the number is very
> ???small indeed.? Even 1006, the
> earliest known Pantera extant, had single
> ???slot wheels.
> ???So don't hold your breath waiting for a
> full set of three-slot wheels
> ???to appear. :>)
>
> ? ???>I will sort them this week by
> design, Thanks Mike Drew for the
> ? ???Campy
> ? ???>? ???Wheel
> education.
>
> ???>>>It's my pleasure, but at this
> point I'm far more concerned about
> ???your aftermarket wheels.? Simply put,
> I would never wish three-piece
> ???Hall wheels on my worst enemy, and
> especially not for track use.? We
> ???collectively know about multiple failures,
> which always led to rapid
> ???deflation and a potential accident.?
> Jack has often told of the car
> ???that was zorching down Mt. Charleston in
> Las Vegas at triple digit
> ???speeds one year when his Hall wheel
> dismantled himself; I believe it
> ???thrust the car into the scenery, but can't
> remember that aspect of the
> ???story for sure.? Jack?
> ???Larry Stock had a car on the grass at
> Concorso that he was trying to
> ???sell; a rear wheel simply blew apart while
> the car was parked (!) and
> ???he had to tow it back to Nevada as it
> couldn't be fixed--it had cracked
> ???halfway around.? The other three
> wheels had similar cracks when they
> ???were taken apart and inspected.
> ???And Mad Dog's fire was indirectly caused
> by the failure of his Hall
> ???wheel; when the left rear wheel failed,
> the car fell down onto the
> ???freeway in Los Angeles.? What wasn't
> seen was that during the collapse,
> ???the brake line was damaged.? MD
> swapped his stock wheels w/race tires
> ???on and ran the Silver State a day or two
> later, but when he stepped on
> ???the brakes at the finish line, the line
> ruptured, fluid sprayed onto
> ???the exhaust and the rest was history.
> ???And on and on and on...I'm sure there are
> many others.
> ???Those wheels were a very well-intentioned
> design but they were woefully
> ???under-engineered, and today should be
> related either to a display case,
> ???or a recycling bin IMHO....
> ???So tell me exactly what kind of wheels
> you're talking about here, as
> ???the Coddington wheels (which I have
> aesthetic problems with,
> ???admittedly) are nothing like these Hall
> wheels at all.
>
> ? ???>>?
> ???Just let a local guy soda blast two of
> them down to the green
> ? ???primer,
> ? ???>? ???I'll
> probably paint them Argent Silver and Clear them just to
> ? ???see the
> ? ???>? ???final
> results.
> ? ???>? ???Photo
> attached.
> ? ???>
>
> ???>>>Since I didn't get your
> original e-mail, I didn't get the photo
> ???either....
> ???Cheers!
> ???Mike
>
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address,
> unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 22:24:18 +0000 (UTC)
> From: marshall smith <marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
> To: <davel at emspace.com>, <detomaso at poca.com>,
> <michael at michaelshortt.com>, <MikeLDrew at aol.com>, marshall smith
> <marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Campagnolo Wheels
> Message-ID:
> <1003982879.3795306.1452723858144.JavaMail.yahoo at mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Additionally....Hall's 10 spoke wheels have the spokes slanted slightly
inboard or towards the suspension. I believe Wilkinson made a 10 spoke wheel
where the spokes slant outward. These are visually better looking giving a
semi dished look and have slightly rounded spokes where the Hall's have
sharp edged spokes.
>
> M
> --------------------------------------------
> On Wed, 1/13/16, marshall smith <marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Campagnolo Wheels
> To: davel at emspace.com, detomaso at poca.com, michael at michaelshortt.com,
MikeLDrew at aol.com
> Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2016, 2:15 PM
>
> FYI....
>
> I have 17 inch Hall 10 spoke wheels. They have welded
> centers and came with a center hub that had a dummy spinner
> and cone that covered the lug nuts or you could delete the
> cone and go with exposed lug nuts.
> I was told that Boyd made these. Hall called them Mark 10s
> as I recall.
>
> Marshall
> --------------------------------------------
> On Wed, 1/13/16, Mike Drew via DeTomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
> wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Campagnolo Wheels
> To: davel at emspace.com,
> detomaso at poca.com,
> michael at michaelshortt.com
> Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2016, 12:19 PM
>
> ???In a message dated
> 1/10/16 21 39 38, davel at emspace.com
> writes:
>
> ? ???My 17" Hall wheels are a lot
> heavier than the mags.
> ? ???I think that's fine for street, but
> aren't you concerned about the
> ? ???unsprung weight for track use?
> ? ???dave
>
> ???>>>Interesting.? This was
> apparently a reply to an original post by
> ???Michael Shortt, but that post never came
> through to me nor did it wind
> ???up in my spam folder?
> ???I'm noting some irregularities with the
> forum these days....anyway,
> ???thankfully Dave included Michael's
> original post, so see replies below:
>
> ? ???On 1/08/16 9:17 PM, Michael Shortt
> wrote:
> ? ???>?
> ???Greetings,
> ? ???>
> ? ???>? ???After
> gathering all my wheels in one place and a brief
> ? ???inventory today,
> ? ???>? ???I have
> 21 Campy wheels,
>
> ???>>>Uh...that's a lot. :>)
>
> ? ???>? ???5
> Single Slots and a mixture of the 4 Double Slots and Zero
> ? ???Triple
> ? ???>? ???Slots
> ( No 10") Plus 2 sets of 17" Boyd Coddington Wheels made
> ? ???for Hall
> ? ???>?
> ???Pantera.
>
> ???>>>Uh, I don't think Coddington
> every made wheels for Hall?? He did
> ???make them for several other vendors, in
> several different styles, some
> ???markedly better than others.? Can you
> share some images perhaps to help
> ???in identification?
> ???Hall did have somebody cast up ten-spoke
> Si-looking wheels that were
> ???welded together, and perhaps Coddington
> was the source for those?
>
> ? ???>>?
> ???And the 17" 10 spokes on the car now with
> 335/35 and 245/40.
>
> ???>>>What kind of wheels are
> those?? 10 spokes is a pretty vague
> ???descriiption--although I admit I'm pretty
> certain how many spokes they
> ???have at least. :>)
>
> ? ???>
> ? ???>? ???I am
> keeping the 10 spokes with PZeros for Street use,
> ? ???>? ???And
> one set of the 17" Hall Wheels with 315/235 Kumhos for
> ? ???Rally and
> ? ???>? ???Track
> use.
>
> ???>>>Wait--are you talking about
> Coddington Campagnolo clones, or Hall
> ???wheels which are three-piece,
> bolt-together affairs, with a fake center
> ???spinner?? Those are as different as
> chalk and cheese (with the latter
> ???being the only genuinely suspect/dangerous
> wheels I've ever
> ???encountered).
>
> ? ???>? ???I will
> be keeping the Single Slots for Concours with skinny
> ? ???Blackwalls
> ? ???>? ???and a
> set of Double Slots with Vintage Arrivas for Photos,
> ? ???With a spare
> ? ???>? ???Front
> and a Spare Rear in case of a boo boo.
>
> ???>>>Sounds good!
>
> ? ???>
> ? ???>>?
> ???That leaves 2 full sets of double slot
> wheels to dispose of.
> ? ???Sell or
> ? ???>? ???Trade.
> Photos Available.
>
> ???>>>Somebody just asked for a
> set--Guy Dellavecchia?? What kind are
> ???they?? Guy might want to trade his
> '71 two-slot wheels for some L-model
> ???wheels?
>
> ? ???>? ???I'd
> love a Triple Slot set. Anybody have some?
>
> ???>>>I have only ever seen two of
> them (separately) in my life.? These
> ???were an experimental wheel used on the
> first pushmobile prototype.? I
> ???have no idea how many were put into
> production but I've never seen any
> ???other car wearing them, so I would have to
> imagine the number is very
> ???small indeed.? Even 1006, the
> earliest known Pantera extant, had single
> ???slot wheels.
> ???So don't hold your breath waiting for a
> full set of three-slot wheels
> ???to appear. :>)
>
> ? ???>I will sort them this week by
> design, Thanks Mike Drew for the
> ? ???Campy
> ? ???>? ???Wheel
> education.
>
> ???>>>It's my pleasure, but at this
> point I'm far more concerned about
> ???your aftermarket wheels.? Simply put,
> I would never wish three-piece
> ???Hall wheels on my worst enemy, and
> especially not for track use.? We
> ???collectively know about multiple failures,
> which always led to rapid
> ???deflation and a potential accident.?
> Jack has often told of the car
> ???that was zorching down Mt. Charleston in
> Las Vegas at triple digit
> ???speeds one year when his Hall wheel
> dismantled himself; I believe it
> ???thrust the car into the scenery, but can't
> remember that aspect of the
> ???story for sure.? Jack?
> ???Larry Stock had a car on the grass at
> Concorso that he was trying to
> ???sell; a rear wheel simply blew apart while
> the car was parked (!) and
> ???he had to tow it back to Nevada as it
> couldn't be fixed--it had cracked
> ???halfway around.? The other three
> wheels had similar cracks when they
> ???were taken apart and inspected.
> ???And Mad Dog's fire was indirectly caused
> by the failure of his Hall
> ???wheel; when the left rear wheel failed,
> the car fell down onto the
> ???freeway in Los Angeles.? What wasn't
> seen was that during the collapse,
> ???the brake line was damaged.? MD
> swapped his stock wheels w/race tires
> ???on and ran the Silver State a day or two
> later, but when he stepped on
> ???the brakes at the finish line, the line
> ruptured, fluid sprayed onto
> ???the exhaust and the rest was history.
> ???And on and on and on...I'm sure there are
> many others.
> ???Those wheels were a very well-intentioned
> design but they were woefully
> ???under-engineered, and today should be
> related either to a display case,
> ???or a recycling bin IMHO....
> ???So tell me exactly what kind of wheels
> you're talking about here, as
> ???the Coddington wheels (which I have
> aesthetic problems with,
> ???admittedly) are nothing like these Hall
> wheels at all.
>
> ? ???>>?
> ???Just let a local guy soda blast two of
> them down to the green
> ? ???primer,
> ? ???>? ???I'll
> probably paint them Argent Silver and Clear them just to
> ? ???see the
> ? ???>? ???final
> results.
> ? ???>? ???Photo
> attached.
> ? ???>
>
> ???>>>Since I didn't get your
> original e-mail, I didn't get the photo
> ???either....
> ???Cheers!
> ???Mike
>
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address,
> unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address,
> unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 17
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 17:44:23 -0500
> From: Michael Shortt <michaelsavga at gmail.com>
> To: marshall smith <marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>, detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Campagnolo Wheels
> Message-ID:
> <CAEWtxWoBoP_w8V4hEH2fJDsmEVnwB4ueWkX8rJqC7R-FWTFj0A at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Marshall,
>
> I have those too, considered having them Powdercoated, but the center
> treatment would look silly. I have both the spinners and the big black
> lugs. The other set is the 5 spoke from Hall/Boyd.
>
> Michael Shortt
> On Jan 13, 2016 5:15 PM, "marshall smith" <marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
>
>> FYI....
>>
>> I have 17 inch Hall 10 spoke wheels. They have welded centers and came
>> with a center hub that had a dummy spinner and cone that covered the lug
>> nuts or you could delete the cone and go with exposed lug nuts.
>> I was told that Boyd made these. Hall called them Mark 10s as I recall.
>>
>> Marshall
>> --------------------------------------------
>> On Wed, 1/13/16, Mike Drew via DeTomaso <detomaso at poca.com> wrote:
>>
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Campagnolo Wheels
>> To: davel at emspace.com, detomaso at poca.com, michael at michaelshortt.com
>> Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2016, 12:19 PM
>>
>> In a message dated
>> 1/10/16 21 39 38, davel at emspace.com
>> writes:
>>
>> My 17" Hall wheels are a lot
>> heavier than the mags.
>> I think that's fine for street, but
>> aren't you concerned about the
>> unsprung weight for track use?
>> dave
>>
>>>>> Interesting. This was
>> apparently a reply to an original post by
>> Michael Shortt, but that post never came
>> through to me nor did it wind
>> up in my spam folder?
>> I'm noting some irregularities with the
>> forum these days....anyway,
>> thankfully Dave included Michael's
>> original post, so see replies below:
>>
>> On 1/08/16 9:17 PM, Michael Shortt
>> wrote:
>> Greetings,
>>>
>>> After
>> gathering all my wheels in one place and a brief
>> inventory today,
>>> I have
>> 21 Campy wheels,
>>
>>>>> Uh...that's a lot. :>)
>>
>>> 5
>> Single Slots and a mixture of the 4 Double Slots and Zero
>> Triple
>>> Slots
>> ( No 10") Plus 2 sets of 17" Boyd Coddington Wheels made
>> for Hall
>> Pantera.
>>
>>>>> Uh, I don't think Coddington
>> every made wheels for Hall? He did
>> make them for several other vendors, in
>> several different styles, some
>> markedly better than others. Can you
>> share some images perhaps to help
>> in identification?
>> Hall did have somebody cast up ten-spoke
>> Si-looking wheels that were
>> welded together, and perhaps Coddington
>> was the source for those?
>>
>> And the 17" 10 spokes on the car now with
>> 335/35 and 245/40.
>>
>>>>> What kind of wheels are
>> those? 10 spokes is a pretty vague
>> descriiption--although I admit I'm pretty
>> certain how many spokes they
>> have at least. :>)
>>
>>>
>>> I am
>> keeping the 10 spokes with PZeros for Street use,
>>> And
>> one set of the 17" Hall Wheels with 315/235 Kumhos for
>> Rally and
>>> Track
>> use.
>>
>>>>> Wait--are you talking about
>> Coddington Campagnolo clones, or Hall
>> wheels which are three-piece,
>> bolt-together affairs, with a fake center
>> spinner? Those are as different as
>> chalk and cheese (with the latter
>> being the only genuinely suspect/dangerous
>> wheels I've ever
>> encountered).
>>
>>> I will
>> be keeping the Single Slots for Concours with skinny
>> Blackwalls
>>> and a
>> set of Double Slots with Vintage Arrivas for Photos,
>> With a spare
>>> Front
>> and a Spare Rear in case of a boo boo.
>>
>>>>> Sounds good!
>>
>>>
>> That leaves 2 full sets of double slot
>> wheels to dispose of.
>> Sell or
>>> Trade.
>> Photos Available.
>>
>>>>> Somebody just asked for a
>> set--Guy Dellavecchia? What kind are
>> they? Guy might want to trade his
>> '71 two-slot wheels for some L-model
>> wheels?
>>
>>> I'd
>> love a Triple Slot set. Anybody have some?
>>
>>>>> I have only ever seen two of
>> them (separately) in my life. These
>> were an experimental wheel used on the
>> first pushmobile prototype. I
>> have no idea how many were put into
>> production but I've never seen any
>> other car wearing them, so I would have to
>> imagine the number is very
>> small indeed. Even 1006, the
>> earliest known Pantera extant, had single
>> slot wheels.
>> So don't hold your breath waiting for a
>> full set of three-slot wheels
>> to appear. :>)
>>
>>> I will sort them this week by
>> design, Thanks Mike Drew for the
>> Campy
>>> Wheel
>> education.
>>
>>>>> It's my pleasure, but at this
>> point I'm far more concerned about
>> your aftermarket wheels. Simply put,
>> I would never wish three-piece
>> Hall wheels on my worst enemy, and
>> especially not for track use. We
>> collectively know about multiple failures,
>> which always led to rapid
>> deflation and a potential accident.
>> Jack has often told of the car
>> that was zorching down Mt. Charleston in
>> Las Vegas at triple digit
>> speeds one year when his Hall wheel
>> dismantled himself; I believe it
>> thrust the car into the scenery, but can't
>> remember that aspect of the
>> story for sure. Jack?
>> Larry Stock had a car on the grass at
>> Concorso that he was trying to
>> sell; a rear wheel simply blew apart while
>> the car was parked (!) and
>> he had to tow it back to Nevada as it
>> couldn't be fixed--it had cracked
>> halfway around. The other three
>> wheels had similar cracks when they
>> were taken apart and inspected.
>> And Mad Dog's fire was indirectly caused
>> by the failure of his Hall
>> wheel; when the left rear wheel failed,
>> the car fell down onto the
>> freeway in Los Angeles. What wasn't
>> seen was that during the collapse,
>> the brake line was damaged. MD
>> swapped his stock wheels w/race tires
>> on and ran the Silver State a day or two
>> later, but when he stepped on
>> the brakes at the finish line, the line
>> ruptured, fluid sprayed onto
>> the exhaust and the rest was history.
>> And on and on and on...I'm sure there are
>> many others.
>> Those wheels were a very well-intentioned
>> design but they were woefully
>> under-engineered, and today should be
>> related either to a display case,
>> or a recycling bin IMHO....
>> So tell me exactly what kind of wheels
>> you're talking about here, as
>> the Coddington wheels (which I have
>> aesthetic problems with,
>> admittedly) are nothing like these Hall
>> wheels at all.
>>
>> Just let a local guy soda blast two of
>> them down to the green
>> primer,
>>> I'll
>> probably paint them Argent Silver and Clear them just to
>> see the
>>> final
>> results.
>>> Photo
>> attached.
>>
>>>>> Since I didn't get your
>> original e-mail, I didn't get the photo
>> either....
>> Cheers!
>> Mike
>>
>> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
>> To manage your subscription (change email address,
>> unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
> -------------- next part --------------
> Marshall,
>
> I have those too, considered having them Powdercoated, but the center
> treatment would look silly. I have both the spinners and the big black
> lugs. The other set is the 5 spoke from Hall/Boyd.
>
> Michael Shortt
>
> On Jan 13, 2016 5:15 PM, "marshall smith"
> <[1]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> FYI....
> I have 17 inch Hall 10 spoke wheels. They have welded centers and
> came with a center hub that had a dummy spinner and cone that
> covered the lug nuts or you could delete the cone and go with
> exposed lug nuts.
> I was told that Boyd made these. Hall called them Mark 10s as I
> recall.
> Marshall
> --------------------------------------------
> On Wed, 1/13/16, Mike Drew via DeTomaso <[2]detomaso at poca.com>
> wrote:
> A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Campagnolo Wheels
> A To: [3]davel at emspace.com, [4]detomaso at poca.com,
> [5]michael at michaelshortt.com
> A Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2016, 12:19 PM
> A A A A In a message dated
> A 1/10/16 21 39 38, [6]davel at emspace.com
> A writes:
> A A A A A My 17" Hall wheels are a lot
> A heavier than the mags.
> A A A A A I think that's fine for street, but
> A aren't you concerned about the
> A A A A A unsprung weight for track use?
> A A A A A dave
> A A A A >>>Interesting.A This was
> A apparently a reply to an original post by
> A A A A Michael Shortt, but that post never came
> A through to me nor did it wind
> A A A A up in my spam folder?
> A A A A I'm noting some irregularities with the
> A forum these days....anyway,
> A A A A thankfully Dave included Michael's
> A original post, so see replies below:
> A A A A A On 1/08/16 9:17 PM, Michael Shortt
> A wrote:
> A A A A A >A
> A A A A Greetings,
> A A A A A >
> A A A A A >A A A A After
> A gathering all my wheels in one place and a brief
> A A A A A inventory today,
> A A A A A >A A A A I have
> A 21 Campy wheels,
> A A A A >>>Uh...that's a lot. :>)
> A A A A A >A A A A 5
> A Single Slots and a mixture of the 4 Double Slots and Zero
> A A A A A Triple
> A A A A A >A A A A Slots
> A ( No 10") Plus 2 sets of 17" Boyd Coddington Wheels made
> A A A A A for Hall
> A A A A A >A
> A A A A Pantera.
> A A A A >>>Uh, I don't think Coddington
> A every made wheels for Hall?A He did
> A A A A make them for several other vendors, in
> A several different styles, some
> A A A A markedly better than others.A Can you
> A share some images perhaps to help
> A A A A in identification?
> A A A A Hall did have somebody cast up ten-spoke
> A Si-looking wheels that were
> A A A A welded together, and perhaps Coddington
> A was the source for those?
> A A A A A >>A
> A A A A And the 17" 10 spokes on the car now with
> A 335/35 and 245/40.
> A A A A >>>What kind of wheels are
> A those?A 10 spokes is a pretty vague
> A A A A descriiption--although I admit I'm pretty
> A certain how many spokes they
> A A A A have at least. :>)
> A A A A A >
> A A A A A >A A A A I am
> A keeping the 10 spokes with PZeros for Street use,
> A A A A A >A A A A And
> A one set of the 17" Hall Wheels with 315/235 Kumhos for
> A A A A A Rally and
> A A A A A >A A A A Track
> A use.
> A A A A >>>Wait--are you talking about
> A Coddington Campagnolo clones, or Hall
> A A A A wheels which are three-piece,
> A bolt-together affairs, with a fake center
> A A A A spinner?A Those are as different as
> A chalk and cheese (with the latter
> A A A A being the only genuinely suspect/dangerous
> A wheels I've ever
> A A A A encountered).
> A A A A A >A A A A I will
> A be keeping the Single Slots for Concours with skinny
> A A A A A Blackwalls
> A A A A A >A A A A and a
> A set of Double Slots with Vintage Arrivas for Photos,
> A A A A A With a spare
> A A A A A >A A A A Front
> A and a Spare Rear in case of a boo boo.
> A A A A >>>Sounds good!
> A A A A A >
> A A A A A >>A
> A A A A That leaves 2 full sets of double slot
> A wheels to dispose of.
> A A A A A Sell or
> A A A A A >A A A A Trade.
> A Photos Available.
> A A A A >>>Somebody just asked for a
> A set--Guy Dellavecchia?A What kind are
> A A A A they?A Guy might want to trade his
> A '71 two-slot wheels for some L-model
> A A A A wheels?
> A A A A A >A A A A I'd
> A love a Triple Slot set. Anybody have some?
> A A A A >>>I have only ever seen two of
> A them (separately) in my life.A These
> A A A A were an experimental wheel used on the
> A first pushmobile prototype.A I
> A A A A have no idea how many were put into
> A production but I've never seen any
> A A A A other car wearing them, so I would have to
> A imagine the number is very
> A A A A small indeed.A Even 1006, the
> A earliest known Pantera extant, had single
> A A A A slot wheels.
> A A A A So don't hold your breath waiting for a
> A full set of three-slot wheels
> A A A A to appear. :>)
> A A A A A >I will sort them this week by
> A design, Thanks Mike Drew for the
> A A A A A Campy
> A A A A A >A A A A Wheel
> A education.
> A A A A >>>It's my pleasure, but at this
> A point I'm far more concerned about
> A A A A your aftermarket wheels.A Simply put,
> A I would never wish three-piece
> A A A A Hall wheels on my worst enemy, and
> A especially not for track use.A We
> A A A A collectively know about multiple failures,
> A which always led to rapid
> A A A A deflation and a potential accident.A
> A Jack has often told of the car
> A A A A that was zorching down Mt. Charleston in
> A Las Vegas at triple digit
> A A A A speeds one year when his Hall wheel
> A dismantled himself; I believe it
> A A A A thrust the car into the scenery, but can't
> A remember that aspect of the
> A A A A story for sure.A Jack?
> A A A A Larry Stock had a car on the grass at
> A Concorso that he was trying to
> A A A A sell; a rear wheel simply blew apart while
> A the car was parked (!) and
> A A A A he had to tow it back to Nevada as it
> A couldn't be fixed--it had cracked
> A A A A halfway around.A The other three
> A wheels had similar cracks when they
> A A A A were taken apart and inspected.
> A A A A And Mad Dog's fire was indirectly caused
> A by the failure of his Hall
> A A A A wheel; when the left rear wheel failed,
> A the car fell down onto the
> A A A A freeway in Los Angeles.A What wasn't
> A seen was that during the collapse,
> A A A A the brake line was damaged.A MD
> A swapped his stock wheels w/race tires
> A A A A on and ran the Silver State a day or two
> A later, but when he stepped on
> A A A A the brakes at the finish line, the line
> A ruptured, fluid sprayed onto
> A A A A the exhaust and the rest was history.
> A A A A And on and on and on...I'm sure there are
> A many others.
> A A A A Those wheels were a very well-intentioned
> A design but they were woefully
> A A A A under-engineered, and today should be
> A related either to a display case,
> A A A A or a recycling bin IMHO....
> A A A A So tell me exactly what kind of wheels
> A you're talking about here, as
> A A A A the Coddington wheels (which I have
> A aesthetic problems with,
> A A A A admittedly) are nothing like these Hall
> A wheels at all.
> A A A A A >>A
> A A A A Just let a local guy soda blast two of
> A them down to the green
> A A A A A primer,
> A A A A A >A A A A I'll
> A probably paint them Argent Silver and Clear them just to
> A A A A A see the
> A A A A A >A A A A final
> A results.
> A A A A A >A A A A Photo
> A attached.
> A A A A A >
> A A A A >>>Since I didn't get your
> A original e-mail, I didn't get the photo
> A A A A either....
> A A A A Cheers!
> A A A A Mike
> A -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
> A _______________________________________________
> A Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> A Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> A DeTomaso mailing list
> A [7]DeTomaso at poca.com
> A [8]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> A To manage your subscription (change email address,
> A unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
> 2. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 3. mailto:davel at emspace.com
> 4. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 5. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
> 6. mailto:davel at emspace.com
> 7. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 8. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 18
> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2016 03:51:32 +0000 (UTC)
> From: Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>
> To: Tomas Gunnarsson <guson at home.se>, "charlesmccall at gmail.com"
> <charlesmccall at gmail.com>, Scott Bell <scott at saccrestorations.net>
> Cc: "detomaso at poca.com" <detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> Message-ID:
> <1037889853.5193710.1452743492663.JavaMail.yahoo at mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Scott at SACC (http://www.saccrestorations.net/) was selling an electric
parking brake actuator kit?for?Panteras.? I'm not sure if it is currently
available, so you'd have to ask Scott.
> Ken
> ?
>
> From: Tomas Gunnarsson <guson at home.se>
> To: charlesmccall at gmail.com
> Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2016 2:02 PM
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
>
> ? It is more likely a linear actuator driven by a motor. A solenoid would
> ? not be good as it would need to draw current for the whole time the
> ? brakes are on. You can probably hear the motor whine when you flip the
> ? switch (or whatever) and then it goes silent when the brakes are
> ? on/off. Where there's legislation requiring a parking brake it's
> ? usually also a requirement that it's mechanically actuated, hydraulics
> ? are not allowed.
>
> ? Tomas
> ? <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
> ? ? ? From: Charles McCall [charlesmccall at gmail.com]
> ? Sent: 13/1/2016 10:53:34 PM
> ? To:
> ? MikeLDrew at aol.com;guson at home.se;gaino at earthlink.net;detomaso at poca.com
> ? Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> ? I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems work by
> ? pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple mechanical
> ? 'arm'
> ? that
> ? is pulling on a mechanical parking brake? Does anybody know that for
> ? sure?
> ? ****Audis use a mechanical parking brake actuated by a solenoid - the
> ? second
> ? case. They do not pressurize the fluid in the line. They have some
> ? electronics to ease the brake on if you are moving, but actuating it at
> ? any
> ? speed locks up your brakes. They are either on or off.
> ? _______________________________________________
> ? Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> ? Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> ? DeTomaso mailing list
> ? DeTomaso at poca.com
> ? http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> ? To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> ? use the links above.
> ? .
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use
the links above.
>
>
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> Scott at SACC ([1]http://www.saccrestorations.net/) was selling an
> electric parking brake actuator kit for Panteras. I'm not sure if it
> is currently available, so you'd have to ask Scott.
> Ken
> __________________________________________________________________
>
> From: Tomas Gunnarsson <guson at home.se>
> To: charlesmccall at gmail.com
> Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2016 2:02 PM
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> It is more likely a linear actuator driven by a motor. A solenoid
> would
> not be good as it would need to draw current for the whole time the
> brakes are on. You can probably hear the motor whine when you flip
> the
> switch (or whatever) and then it goes silent when the brakes are
> on/off. Where there's legislation requiring a parking brake it's
> usually also a requirement that it's mechanically actuated,
> hydraulics
> are not allowed.
> Tomas
> <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
> From: Charles McCall [[2]charlesmccall at gmail.com]
> Sent: 13/1/2016 10:53:34 PM
> To:
>
> [3]MikeLDrew at aol.com;[4]guson at home.se;[5]gaino at earthlink.net;[6]detomas
> o at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems work by
> pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple
> mechanical
> 'arm'
> that
> is pulling on a mechanical parking brake? Does anybody know that for
> sure?
> ****Audis use a mechanical parking brake actuated by a solenoid - the
> second
> case. They do not pressurize the fluid in the line. They have some
> electronics to ease the brake on if you are moving, but actuating it
> at
> any
> speed locks up your brakes. They are either on or off.
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [7]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [8]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> use the links above.
> .
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [9]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [10]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> use the links above.
>
> References
>
> 1. http://www.saccrestorations.net/
> 2. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
> 3. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
> 4. mailto:guson at home.se
> 5. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
> 6. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 7. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 8. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 9. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 10. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 19
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 20:19:16 -0800
> From: "Scott Bell" <scott at saccrestorations.net>
> To: "'Ken Green'" <kenn_green at yahoo.com>
> Cc: <detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> Message-ID: <013501d14e82$bc2e21f0$348a65d0$@saccrestorations.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Yes, the E-Stopp Electronic Parking Brake Kit is back and available to use
with the stock Pantera rear Calipers or with any aftermarket parking brake
caliper. I will add them back to our website later this week.
>
> We offer the kit as it is sold from E-Stopp. The do-it-yourselfer can fab
the brackets needed to mount it in the Pantera. OR, we offer an installation
kit that makes the unit a bolt on upgrade.
>
> Interestingly, before I had the E-Stopp installed in my Pantera, I almost
never set my parking brake. Not sure why, maybe because I didn?t like how
awkward the stock unit was to operate. For the stock unit to work it really
needs to be set with a bit or force. Then, to release, I needed to use both
hands. After installing the Electronic unit, I set the parking brake every
time I park the car.
>
> In addition to the Electronic Actuator, SACC Restorations is coming out
with a new Parking Brake Caliper Kit that will be a bolt on unit custom
fitted specifically for the Pantera. This will give owners an opportunity to
upgrade to a great looking, light weight and affordable parking brake
solution. More to come on the new product in the next few weeks!
>
> Scott
>
> From: Ken Green [mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2016 7:52 PM
> To: Tomas Gunnarsson; charlesmccall at gmail.com; Scott Bell
> Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
>
> Scott at SACC (http://www.saccrestorations.net/) was selling an electric
parking brake actuator kit for Panteras. I'm not sure if it is currently
available, so you'd have to ask Scott.
>
> Ken
>
>
> _____
>
> From: Tomas Gunnarsson <guson at home.se>
> To: charlesmccall at gmail.com
> Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2016 2:02 PM
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
>
> It is more likely a linear actuator driven by a motor. A solenoid would
> not be good as it would need to draw current for the whole time the
> brakes are on. You can probably hear the motor whine when you flip the
> switch (or whatever) and then it goes silent when the brakes are
> on/off. Where there's legislation requiring a parking brake it's
> usually also a requirement that it's mechanically actuated, hydraulics
> are not allowed.
>
> Tomas
> <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
> From: Charles McCall [charlesmccall at gmail.com]
> Sent: 13/1/2016 10:53:34 PM
> To:
> MikeLDrew at aol.com;guson at home.se;gaino at earthlink.net;detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems work by
> pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple mechanical
> 'arm'
> that
> is pulling on a mechanical parking brake? Does anybody know that for
> sure?
> ****Audis use a mechanical parking brake actuated by a solenoid - the
> second
> case. They do not pressurize the fluid in the line. They have some
> electronics to ease the brake on if you are moving, but actuating it at
> any
> speed locks up your brakes. They are either on or off.
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> use the links above.
> .
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use
the links above.
>
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> Yes, the E-Stopp Electronic Parking Brake Kit is back and available to
> use with the stock Pantera rear Calipers or with any aftermarket
> parking brake caliper. I will add them back to our website later this
> week.
>
>
> We offer the kit as it is sold from E-Stopp. The do-it-yourselfer can
> fab the brackets needed to mount it in the Pantera. OR, we offer an
> installation kit that makes the unit a bolt on upgrade.
>
>
> Interestingly, before I had the E-Stopp installed in my Pantera, I
> almost never set my parking brake. Not sure why, maybe because I didn't
> like how awkward the stock unit was to operate. For the stock unit to
> work it really needs to be set with a bit or force. Then, to release, I
> needed to use both hands. After installing the Electronic unit, I set
> the parking brake every time I park the car.
>
>
> In addition to the Electronic Actuator, SACC Restorations is coming out
> with a new Parking Brake Caliper Kit that will be a bolt on unit custom
> fitted specifically for the Pantera. This will give owners an
> opportunity to upgrade to a great looking, light weight and affordable
> parking brake solution. More to come on the new product in the next few
> weeks!
>
>
> Scott
>
>
> From: Ken Green [mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2016 7:52 PM
> To: Tomas Gunnarsson; charlesmccall at gmail.com; Scott Bell
> Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
>
>
> Scott at SACC ([1]http://www.saccrestorations.net/) was selling an
> electric parking brake actuator kit for Panteras. I'm not sure if it
> is currently available, so you'd have to ask Scott.
>
>
> Ken
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
>
> From: Tomas Gunnarsson <[2]guson at home.se>
> To: [3]charlesmccall at gmail.com
> Cc: [4]detomaso at poca.com
> Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2016 2:02 PM
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
>
> It is more likely a linear actuator driven by a motor. A solenoid
> would
> not be good as it would need to draw current for the whole time the
> brakes are on. You can probably hear the motor whine when you flip
> the
> switch (or whatever) and then it goes silent when the brakes are
> on/off. Where there's legislation requiring a parking brake it's
> usually also a requirement that it's mechanically actuated,
> hydraulics
> are not allowed.
> Tomas
> <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
> From: Charles McCall [[5]charlesmccall at gmail.com]
> Sent: 13/1/2016 10:53:34 PM
> To:
>
> [6]MikeLDrew at aol.com;[7]guson at home.se;[8]gaino at earthlink.net;[9]detomas
> o at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems work by
> pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple
> mechanical
> 'arm'
> that
> is pulling on a mechanical parking brake? Does anybody know that for
> sure?
> ****Audis use a mechanical parking brake actuated by a solenoid - the
> second
> case. They do not pressurize the fluid in the line. They have some
> electronics to ease the brake on if you are moving, but actuating it
> at
> any
> speed locks up your brakes. They are either on or off.
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [10]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [11]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> use the links above.
> .
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [12]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [13]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> use the links above.
>
> References
>
> 1. http://www.saccrestorations.net/
> 2. mailto:guson at home.se
> 3. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
> 4. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 5. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
> 6. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
> 7. mailto:guson at home.se
> 8. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
> 9. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 10. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 11. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 12. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 13. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 20
> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2016 16:50:07 +0000 (UTC)
> From: B Hower <b.hower3400 at yahoo.com>
> To: De Tomaso List <detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: [DeTomaso] NPC 91 Merc parts
> Message-ID:
> <749672874.510825.1452790207343.JavaMail.yahoo at mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi all,
> I am scrapping a 91 Merc Marque. If anyone would happen to need any parts
from same,,,,contact me off forum.
> ?Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow -- for there may not be !
)
> -------------- next part --------------
> Hi all,
> I am scrapping a 91 Merc Marque. If anyone would happen to need any
> parts from same,,,,contact me off forum.
>
> Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow -- for there may not be
> ! )
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 21
> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2016 12:26:12 -0500
> From: Rob Dumoulin <rob at dumoulins.net>
> To: Pantera - DeTomaso Mail List <DeTomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: [DeTomaso] NPC 2000 BMW 740i Sport for whole or parts
> Message-ID:
> <CAEr4y_vxSUkwzguCsUO6EJwL3z5uDV7+GGdEiL6YXMPoB4H1jw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Following Bud's lead,
>
> The finest road car I have ever owned is being put out to pasture in
> Northwest Florida. I've got a 2000 BMW 740i Sport (M body, M rims, M
> transmission, and M suspension package, but a regular M62 4.4 V8) that I
> have dropped off at my mechanic and advised him I would split any profit
he
> makes from it. He is making it pretty to sell. Catch it quick before he
> sinks money into it for a better deal.
>
> Buy it whole, or make it worth our time in parts. Contact me off list if
> you want to know what it needs mechanically to be right again.
>
> Rob
> 904.476.8744
> -------------- next part --------------
> Following Bud's lead,
> The finest road car I have ever owned is being put out to pasture in
> Northwest Florida.A I've got a 2000 BMW 740i Sport (M body, M rims, M
> transmission, and M suspension package, but a regular M62 4.4 V8) that
> I have dropped off at my mechanic and advised him I would split any
> profit he makes from it.A He is making it pretty to sell.A Catch it
> quick before he sinks money into it for a better deal.
> Buy it whole, or make it worth our time in parts.A Contact me off list
> if you want to know what it needs mechanically to be right again.
> Rob
> 904.476.8744
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 22
> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2016 12:35:44 -0500
> From: "Mirril M. McMullen" <mirrilm at earthlink.net>
> To: "'Rob Dumoulin'" <rob at dumoulins.net>
> Cc: "'Pantera - DeTomaso Mail List'" <DeTomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC 2000 BMW 740i Sport for whole or parts
> Message-ID: <009b01d14ef1$ff563660$fe02a320$@earthlink.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Hmmm,
>
> Let me guess, cam chains eating the timing cover?
>
> /\/\///
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of Rob
Dumoulin
> Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 12:26 PM
> To: Pantera - DeTomaso Mail List
> Subject: [DeTomaso] NPC 2000 BMW 740i Sport for whole or parts
>
> Following Bud's lead,
>
> The finest road car I have ever owned is being put out to pasture in
Northwest Florida. I've got a 2000 BMW 740i Sport (M body, M rims, M
transmission, and M suspension package, but a regular M62 4.4 V8) that I
have dropped off at my mechanic and advised him I would split any profit he
makes from it. He is making it pretty to sell. Catch it quick before he
sinks money into it for a better deal.
>
> Buy it whole, or make it worth our time in parts. Contact me off list if
you want to know what it needs mechanically to be right again.
>
> Rob
> 904.476.8744
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 23
> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2016 12:55:15 -0500
> From: Rob Dumoulin <rob at dumoulins.net>
> To: Mirril McMullen <mirrilm at earthlink.net>
> Cc: Pantera - DeTomaso Mail List <DeTomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC 2000 BMW 740i Sport for whole or parts
> Message-ID:
> <CAEr4y_tsVfHd1sESiSVDnm-VZD7x5PkuiCm2OTmAZ1mJ7ZkmCw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Not at all. Cam chain, tensioner, waterpump all changed a few years ago.
> Also, new fan clutch, radiator, belts, and other stuff. Always got
> synthetic oil changes regular.
>
> 240K miles and a transmission that will not go into reverse when engine is
> hot was the kicker. That and the interior is showing age.
>
> Needs two new coil packs and possibly a VANOS sensor but still glides down
> the road.
>
> Rob DuMoulin
> 904.476.8744
> rob at dumoulins.net
> www.kbsi.co
> http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
>
> On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 12:35 PM, Mirril M. McMullen
<mirrilm at earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Hmmm,
>>
>> Let me guess, cam chains eating the timing cover?
>>
>> /\/\///
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of Rob
>> Dumoulin
>> Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 12:26 PM
>> To: Pantera - DeTomaso Mail List
>> Subject: [DeTomaso] NPC 2000 BMW 740i Sport for whole or parts
>>
>> Following Bud's lead,
>>
>> The finest road car I have ever owned is being put out to pasture in
>> Northwest Florida. I've got a 2000 BMW 740i Sport (M body, M rims, M
>> transmission, and M suspension package, but a regular M62 4.4 V8) that I
>> have dropped off at my mechanic and advised him I would split any profit
he
>> makes from it. He is making it pretty to sell. Catch it quick before he
>> sinks money into it for a better deal.
>>
>> Buy it whole, or make it worth our time in parts. Contact me off list if
>> you want to know what it needs mechanically to be right again.
>>
>> Rob
>> 904.476.8744
> -------------- next part --------------
> Not at all.A Cam chain, tensioner, waterpump all changed a few years
> ago. A
> Also, new fan clutch, radiator, belts, and other stuff.A Always got
> synthetic oil changes regular.
> 240K miles and a transmission that will not go into reverse when engine
> is hot was the kicker.A That and the interior is showing age.A
> Needs two new coil packs and possibly a VANOS sensor but still glides
> down the road.
>
> Rob DuMoulin
> 904.476.8744
> [1]rob at dumoulins.net
> [2]www.kbsi.co
> [3]http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
> On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 12:35 PM, Mirril M. McMullen
> <[4]mirrilm at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> Hmmm,
> Let me guess, cam chains eating the timing cover?
> /\/\///
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso [mailto:[5]detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of Rob
> Dumoulin
> Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 12:26 PM
> To: Pantera - DeTomaso Mail List
> Subject: [DeTomaso] NPC 2000 BMW 740i Sport for whole or parts
> Following Bud's lead,
> The finest road car I have ever owned is being put out to pasture in
> Northwest Florida.A I've got a 2000 BMW 740i Sport (M body, M rims, M
> transmission, and M suspension package, but a regular M62 4.4 V8) that
> I have dropped off at my mechanic and advised him I would split any
> profit he makes from it.A He is making it pretty to sell.A Catch it
> quick before he sinks money into it for a better deal.
> Buy it whole, or make it worth our time in parts.A Contact me off list
> if you want to know what it needs mechanically to be right again.
> Rob
> 904.476.8744
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:rob at dumoulins.net
> 2. http://www.kbsi.co/
> 3. http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
> 4. mailto:mirrilm at earthlink.net
> 5. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 24
> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2016 12:56:57 -0500
> From: Rob Dumoulin <rob at dumoulins.net>
> To: Mirril McMullen <mirrilm at earthlink.net>
> Cc: Pantera - DeTomaso Mail List <DeTomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC 2000 BMW 740i Sport for whole or parts
> Message-ID:
> <CAEr4y_ubKH1kTNF61wqfS+TpW+q2OPZuP=uwOjq5Y=FhZt-Apw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Forgot to add....I have 6 cars. I do not need 6 cars.
>
> Rob DuMoulin
> 904.476.8744
> rob at dumoulins.net
> www.kbsi.co
> http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
>
>> On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 12:55 PM, Rob Dumoulin <rob at dumoulins.net> wrote:
>>
>> Not at all. Cam chain, tensioner, waterpump all changed a few years ago.
>> Also, new fan clutch, radiator, belts, and other stuff. Always got
>> synthetic oil changes regular.
>>
>> 240K miles and a transmission that will not go into reverse when engine
is
>> hot was the kicker. That and the interior is showing age.
>>
>> Needs two new coil packs and possibly a VANOS sensor but still glides
down
>> the road.
>>
>> Rob DuMoulin
>> 904.476.8744
>> rob at dumoulins.net
>> www.kbsi.co
>> http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 12:35 PM, Mirril M. McMullen <
>> mirrilm at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Hmmm,
>>>
>>> Let me guess, cam chains eating the timing cover?
>>>
>>> /\/\///
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of Rob
>>> Dumoulin
>>> Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 12:26 PM
>>> To: Pantera - DeTomaso Mail List
>>> Subject: [DeTomaso] NPC 2000 BMW 740i Sport for whole or parts
>>>
>>> Following Bud's lead,
>>>
>>> The finest road car I have ever owned is being put out to pasture in
>>> Northwest Florida. I've got a 2000 BMW 740i Sport (M body, M rims, M
>>> transmission, and M suspension package, but a regular M62 4.4 V8) that I
>>> have dropped off at my mechanic and advised him I would split any profit
he
>>> makes from it. He is making it pretty to sell. Catch it quick before
he
>>> sinks money into it for a better deal.
>>>
>>> Buy it whole, or make it worth our time in parts. Contact me off list
if
>>> you want to know what it needs mechanically to be right again.
>>>
>>> Rob
>>> 904.476.8744
> -------------- next part --------------
> Forgot to add....I have 6 cars.A I do not need 6 cars.
>
> Rob DuMoulin
> 904.476.8744
> [1]rob at dumoulins.net
> [2]www.kbsi.co
> [3]http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
> On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 12:55 PM, Rob Dumoulin <[4]rob at dumoulins.net>
> wrote:
>
> Not at all.A Cam chain, tensioner, waterpump all changed a few years
> ago. A
> Also, new fan clutch, radiator, belts, and other stuff.A Always got
> synthetic oil changes regular.
> 240K miles and a transmission that will not go into reverse when engine
> is hot was the kicker.A That and the interior is showing age.A
> Needs two new coil packs and possibly a VANOS sensor but still glides
> down the road.
>
> Rob DuMoulin
> [5]904.476.8744
> [6]rob at dumoulins.net
> [7]www.kbsi.co
> [8]http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
> On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 12:35 PM, Mirril M. McMullen
> <[9]mirrilm at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> Hmmm,
> Let me guess, cam chains eating the timing cover?
> /\/\///
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso [mailto:[10]detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of Rob
> Dumoulin
> Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 12:26 PM
> To: Pantera - DeTomaso Mail List
> Subject: [DeTomaso] NPC 2000 BMW 740i Sport for whole or parts
> Following Bud's lead,
> The finest road car I have ever owned is being put out to pasture in
> Northwest Florida.A I've got a 2000 BMW 740i Sport (M body, M rims, M
> transmission, and M suspension package, but a regular M62 4.4 V8) that
> I have dropped off at my mechanic and advised him I would split any
> profit he makes from it.A He is making it pretty to sell.A Catch it
> quick before he sinks money into it for a better deal.
> Buy it whole, or make it worth our time in parts.A Contact me off list
> if you want to know what it needs mechanically to be right again.
> Rob
> [11]904.476.8744
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:rob at dumoulins.net
> 2. http://www.kbsi.co/
> 3. http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
> 4. mailto:rob at dumoulins.net
> 5. tel:904.476.8744
> 6. mailto:rob at dumoulins.net
> 7. http://www.kbsi.co/
> 8. http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
> 9. mailto:mirrilm at earthlink.net
> 10. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
> 11. tel:904.476.8744
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 25
> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2016 18:08:58 +0000 (UTC)
> From: marshall smith <marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
> To: 'Tomas Gunnarsson' <guson at home.se>, <gaino at earthlink.net>,
> Stephen <steve at snclocks.com>
> Cc: <detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> Message-ID:
> <819779826.4191306.1452794938797.JavaMail.yahoo at mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Yikes....I could never trust my E brake on 'this' hill!
> --------------------------------------------
> On Wed, 1/13/16, Stephen <steve at snclocks.com> wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> To: "'Tomas Gunnarsson'" <guson at home.se>, gaino at earthlink.net
> Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2016, 8:21 AM
>
> ???Whilst `inelegant',
> at least the stock system works well.? I installed
> ???Wildwoods on the front of the discs and
> kept the originals on the
> ???back.? I did have the originals
> coated black - heck, doesn't look that
> ???bad.
>
>
> ???Stephen Nelson
>
>
> ???-----Original Message-----
> ???From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com]
> On Behalf Of Tomas
> ???Gunnarsson
> ???Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2016 8:03 AM
> ???To: gaino at earthlink.net
> ???Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> ???Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
>
>
> ???That's simply not a good solution. Doesn't
> work as an emergency brake
> ???and parking brake function is dubious. If
> you park your car with the
> ???brakes hot they may release when they cool
> off.
>
> ???Tomas
>
>
> ???<-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
>
>
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
> ???From: bill gaino [gaino at earthlink.net]
>
> ???Sent: 13/1/2016 4:52:29 PM
>
> ???To: [1]detomaso at poca.com
>
> ???Subject: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
>
>
> ???Is anybody using a solinoid based parking
> brake? Something that that
> ???blocks fluid in the brake lines to hold
> calipers pressed against the
> ???rotors. My customer does not want the
> extra set of E brake calipers..
>
> ???like IPSCO offers. Bill 1362
>
>
>
> ???[2]https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref=ts <https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref=ts&> &
> ???fref
>
> ???=ts
>
> ???If you want it slick.
> [3]www.slickpaint.com like us on facebook
>
>
> ???_______________________________________________
>
>
> ???Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> ???Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
> Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list
> ???[4]DeTomaso at poca.com
> ???[5]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
> ???To manage your subscription (change email
> address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> ???use the links above.
>
> ???.
>
> References
>
> ???1. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> ???2.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref=ts <https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref=ts&fref> &fref
> ???3. http://www.slickpaint.com/
> ???4. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> ???5. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address,
> unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of DeTomaso Digest, Vol 139, Issue 16
> *****************************************
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
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http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
-------------- next part --------------
Dear Bud,
Egad! I foolishly overlooked the correct answer:
Drive faster. More speed produces more cooling and more fun!
Vroom, vroom, Chuck Engles
From: B Hower [mailto:b.hower3400 at yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 7:32 PM
To: Charles Engles; 'tom ware'; detomaso at poca.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] DeTomaso Digest, Vol 139, Issue 16
Drive faster to get air flow up past tank. . smile.
Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow -- for there may not be
! )
_______________________________________________________________________
From: Charles Engles <[1]cengles at cox.net>
To: 'tom ware' <[2]ace595 at hotmail.com>; [3]detomaso at poca.com
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 7:14 PM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] DeTomaso Digest, Vol 139, Issue 16
Dear Tom,
I am not an expert, but....
last year I removed the gas tank from my late '74 Pantera, which has
had the
stainless steel treatment for the last twenty five years. Behind the
bling
is the base stock thick aluminum(?) which is not a single layer. There
are
at least two layers and there *might* be a layer in between. That is
my
guess and I will defer to an expert.
I think that the normal stainless steel shield installation is over the
stock one. Perhaps it is heavier, but it would tend to further shield
the
gas tank from the headers' heat.
Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso [mailto:[4]detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of tom
ware
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 5:58 PM
To: [5]detomaso at poca.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] DeTomaso Digest, Vol 139, Issue 16
Gas tank shield ?
I have a new stainless steel shield that came with my project.
Is it the norm to insulate it for heat.?
Thanks
Tom
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jan 14, 2016, at 2:00 PM, <[6]detomaso-request at poca.com>
<[7]detomaso-request at poca.com> wrote:
>
> Send DeTomaso mailing list submissions to
> [8]detomaso at poca.com
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> [9]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> [10]detomaso-request at poca.com
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> [11]detomaso-owner at poca.com
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of DeTomaso digest..."
>
>
> Daily Detomaso List Digest
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: parking brakes (Tomas Gunnarsson)
> 2. Re: parking brakes ([12]MikeLDrew at aol.com)
> 3. Re: parking brakes ([13]MikeLDrew at aol.com)
> 4. Re: parking brakes ([14]MikeLDrew at aol.com)
> 5. Re: Campagnolo Wheels ([15]MikeLDrew at aol.com)
> 6. Re: parking brakes (Stephen)
> 7. Re: parking brakes (L GRAY)
> 8. Re: Campagnolo Wheels (Michael Shortt)
> 9. Re: parking brakes (Tomas Gunnarsson)
> 10. Re: Campagnolo Wheels (Larry Stock)
> 11. Re: parking brakes (Charles McCall)
> 12. Re: parking brakes (Tomas Gunnarsson)
> 13. Re: parking brakes (Charles McCall)
> 14. Re: parking brakes (Thomas Tornblom)
> 15. Re: Campagnolo Wheels (marshall smith)
> 16. Re: Campagnolo Wheels (marshall smith)
> 17. Re: Campagnolo Wheels (Michael Shortt)
> 18. Re: parking brakes (Ken Green)
> 19. Re: parking brakes (Scott Bell)
> 20. NPC 91 Merc parts (B Hower)
> 21. NPC 2000 BMW 740i Sport for whole or parts (Rob Dumoulin)
> 22. Re: NPC 2000 BMW 740i Sport for whole or parts
> (Mirril M. McMullen)
> 23. Re: NPC 2000 BMW 740i Sport for whole or parts (Rob Dumoulin)
> 24. Re: NPC 2000 BMW 740i Sport for whole or parts (Rob Dumoulin)
> 25. Re: parking brakes (marshall smith)
>
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 11:27:31 -0800
> From: "Tomas Gunnarsson" <[16]guson at home.se>
> To: <[17]gaino at earthlink.net>
> Cc: <[18]steve at snclocks.com>, <[19]detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> Message-ID: <[20]46D238640B764EE3A581C2544BE74A80 at mail2world.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Yes Bill, most likely. I have installed calipers on the front side of
> the uprights, the holes were threaded and all. I think I heard that
not
> all uprights are drilled front and back but it may be that only newer
> cars that suffer from that.
>
> Tomas
>
>
>
> <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
>
> From: bill gaino [[21]gaino at earthlink.net]
> Sent: 13/1/2016 6:13:51 PM
> To: [22]steve at snclocks.com;[23]guson at home.se
> Cc: [24]detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
>
>
> Is it possible to mount the stock calipers in the front position to
use
> as Ebrake? He already has the Wilwoods installed and saftey wired on
> the rear mounts..Bill 1362
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stephen
> Sent: Jan 13, 2016 11:21 AM
> To: 'Tomas Gunnarsson' , [25]gaino at earthlink.net
> Cc: [26]detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
>
>
>
> Whilst 'inelegant', at least the stock system works well. I
> installed Wildwoods on the front of the discs and kept the originals
on
> the back. I did have the originals coated black - heck, doesn't look
> that bad.
>
>
>
> Stephen Nelson
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso [mailto:[27]detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of
> Tomas Gunnarsson
> Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2016 8:03 AM
> To: [28]gaino at earthlink.net
> Cc: [29]detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
>
>
>
> That's simply not a good solution. Doesn't work as an emergency
> brake and parking brake function is dubious. If you park your car
with
> the brakes hot they may release when they cool off.
>
>
>
> Tomas
>
>
>
> <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
>
>
>
> From: bill gaino
> [[30]gaino at earthlink.net]
>
> Sent: 13/1/2016 4:52:29 PM
>
> To: [31]detomaso at poca.com <mailto:[32]detomaso at poca.com>
>
> Subject: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
>
>
>
> Is anybody using a solinoid based parking brake? Something that
> that blocks fluid in the brake lines to hold calipers pressed against
> the rotors. My customer does not want the extra set of E brake
> calipers..
>
> like IPSCO offers. Bill 1362
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
[33]https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref=ts
&fref
>
<[34]https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref=t
s&fre
> f>
>
> =ts
>
> If you want it slick. [35]www.slickpaint.com
> <[36]http://www.slickpaint.com> like us on facebook
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing
> list [37]DeTomaso at poca.com <mailto:[38]DeTomaso at poca.com>
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> <[40]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com>
>
>
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
> etc.) use the links above.
>
> .
>
>
>
>
>
[41]https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref=ts
&fref
> =ts
> If you want it slick. [42]www.slickpaint.com like us on facebook
>
>
> .
> -------------- next part --------------
> Yes Bill, most likely. I have installed calipers on the front side
of
> the uprights, the holes were threaded and all. I think I heard that
not
> all uprights are drilled front and back but it may be that only
newer
> cars that suffer from that.
>
> Tomas
> <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
> From: bill gaino [[43]gaino at earthlink.net]
> Sent: 13/1/2016 6:13:51 PM
> To: [44]steve at snclocks.com;[45]guson at home.se
> Cc: [46]detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> Is it possible to mount the stock calipers in the front position to
use
> as Ebrake? He already has the Wilwoods installed and saftey wired
on
> the rear mounts..Bill 1362
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stephen
> Sent: Jan 13, 2016 11:21 AM
> To: 'Tomas Gunnarsson' , [47]gaino at earthlink.net
> Cc: [48]detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
>
> Whilst `inelegant', at least the stock system works well. I
installed
> Wildwoods on the front of the discs and kept the originals on the
> back. I did have the originals coated black - heck, doesn't look
that
> bad.
>
>
> Stephen Nelson
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso [mailto:[49]detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of
Tomas
> Gunnarsson
> Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2016 8:03 AM
> To: [50]gaino at earthlink.net
> Cc: [51]detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
>
>
> That's simply not a good solution. Doesn't work as an emergency
brake
> and parking brake function is dubious. If you park your car with the
> brakes hot they may release when they cool off.
>
> Tomas
>
>
> <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
>
>
> From: bill gaino
[[52]gaino at earthlink.net]
>
> Sent: 13/1/2016 4:52:29 PM
>
> To: [1][53]detomaso at poca.com
>
> Subject: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
>
>
> Is anybody using a solinoid based parking brake? Something that that
> blocks fluid in the brake lines to hold calipers pressed against the
> rotors. My customer does not want the extra set of E brake
calipers..
>
> like IPSCO offers. Bill 1362
>
>
>
>
[2][54]https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref
=ts&
> fref
>
> =ts
>
> If you want it slick. [3][55]www.slickpaint.com like us on facebook
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list
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> [5][57]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
etc.)
> use the links above.
>
> .
>
>
>
[58]https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref=ts
&fref=ts
> If you want it slick. [59]www.slickpaint.com like us on facebook
>
> .
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:[60]detomaso at poca.com
> 2.
[61]https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref=ts
&fref
> 3. [62]http://www.slickpaint.com/
> 4. mailto:[63]DeTomaso at poca.com
> 5. [64]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 14:51:53 -0500
> From: [65]MikeLDrew at aol.com
> To: [66]guson at home.se, [67]gaino at earthlink.net
> Cc: [68]detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> Message-ID: <[69]72fdba.12644e17.43c804d9 at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
> In a message dated 1/13/16 8 03 59, [70]guson at home.se writes:
>
>
>> That's simply not a good solution. Doesn't work as an emergency
brake
>> and parking brake function is dubious. If you park your car with the
>> brakes hot they may release when they cool off.
>
>>>> Tomas, you're talking about a simple line lock. He's asking about
an
> (electrical) solenoid-operated system, which was pioneered by the
OEMs and
is
> in wide use (and is, significantly, sufficiently effective to satisfy
> government regulations worldwide). Such systems are now available in
the
> aftermarket.
>
> I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems work by
> pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple
mechanical
'arm' that
> is pulling on a mechanical parking brake? Does anybody know that for
sure?
>
> You're correct in asserting that a simple line lock is insufficient
to
hold
> a car for any length of time; they are designed for very short-term
use
> only. Geoff Peters' Pantera nearly missed (by less than an inch)
crashing
> into an Aston Martin DB4 when he let a friend borrow it and the fool
parked it
> overnight on a slope in neutral with the line lock engaged. As the
brakes
> cooled at night, they released and the car rolled through a lot
crowded
with
> collector cars, brushed past the Aston and crashed through a hedge
and
down
> into a ditch! Fortunately it was unhurt, but it could have been very
bad
> indeed.
>
> A solenoid-type system that actuated the brake hydraulics would be
much
> more effective because it has its own master cylinder that would
still
hold
> pressure even as the fluid cooled. However, it would not serve as a
proper
> emergency brake if there was a hydraulic failure (say, a seal blew
out in
a
> caliper) whereas a cable-type system that mechanically leverages the
> components of the caliper requires no hydraulics to work.
>
> Mike (who has had no parking brake at all for the past 30
years...park
> wisely and hope for the best!)
> -------------- next part --------------
> In a message dated 1/13/16 8 03 59, [71]guson at home.se writes:
>
> That's simply not a good solution. Doesn't work as an emergency
> brake
> and parking brake function is dubious. If you park your car with
the
> brakes hot they may release when they cool off.
>
>>>> Tomas, you're talking about a simple line lock. He's asking about
> an (electrical) solenoid-operated system, which was pioneered by the
> OEMs and is in wide use (and is, significantly, sufficiently
effective
> to satisfy government regulations worldwide). Such systems are now
> available in the aftermarket.
> I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems work by
> pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple
mechanical
> 'arm' that is pulling on a mechanical parking brake? Does anybody
know
> that for sure?
> You're correct in asserting that a simple line lock is insufficient
to
> hold a car for any length of time; they are designed for very
> short-term use only. Geoff Peters' Pantera nearly missed (by less
than
> an inch) crashing into an Aston Martin DB4 when he let a friend
borrow
> it and the fool parked it overnight on a slope in neutral with the
line
> lock engaged. As the brakes cooled at night, they released and the
car
> rolled through a lot crowded with collector cars, brushed past the
> Aston and crashed through a hedge and down into a ditch!
Fortunately
> it was unhurt, but it could have been very bad indeed.
> A solenoid-type system that actuated the brake hydraulics would be
much
> more effective because it has its own master cylinder that would
still
> hold pressure even as the fluid cooled. However, it would not serve
as
> a proper emergency brake if there was a hydraulic failure (say, a
seal
> blew out in a caliper) whereas a cable-type system that mechanically
> leverages the components of the caliper requires no hydraulics to
work.
> Mike (who has had no parking brake at all for the past 30
years...park
> wisely and hope for the best!)
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 14:51:57 -0500
> From: [72]MikeLDrew at aol.com
> To: [73]gaino at earthlink.net, [74]steve at snclocks.com,
[75]guson at home.se
> Cc: [76]detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> Message-ID: <[77]72fdc9.23690f23.43c804dd at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
> In a message dated 1/13/16 9 15 10, [78]gaino at earthlink.net writes:
>
>
>> ?? Is it possible to mount the stock calipers in the front position
to
>> use
>> ?? as Ebrake?? He already has the Wilwoods installed and saftey
wired on
>> ?? the rear mounts.
>
>>>> People who say 'yes' are forgetting about simple mechanics. The
> calipers are actuated by cables which are introduced into the rear of
the
> wheelwell. If the calipers are repositioned the cables will no
longer
fit, plus if
> longer ones were used, they would foul the driveshafts on their way
> forward. The only possible way to make a system like that work would
be
to
> reposition the cables so they entered the wheelwells ahead of,
instead of
behind
> the hub carriers, and there would be a fair bit of engineering
involved.
I
> suppose it might be possible, but it certainly won't be a trivial
exercise.
>
> Mike
> -------------- next part --------------
> In a message dated 1/13/16 9 15 10, [79]gaino at earthlink.net writes:
>
> Is it possible to mount the stock calipers in the front
position
> to use
> as Ebrake? He already has the Wilwoods installed and saftey
> wired on
> the rear mounts.
>
>>>> People who say 'yes' are forgetting about simple mechanics. The
> calipers are actuated by cables which are introduced into the rear
of
> the wheelwell. If the calipers are repositioned the cables will no
> longer fit, plus if longer ones were used, they would foul the
> driveshafts on their way forward. The only possible way to make a
> system like that work would be to reposition the cables so they
entered
> the wheelwells ahead of, instead of behind the hub carriers, and
there
> would be a fair bit of engineering involved. I suppose it might be
> possible, but it certainly won't be a trivial exercise.
> Mike
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 14:52:03 -0500
> From: [80]MikeLDrew at aol.com
> To: [81]guson at home.se, [82]gaino at earthlink.net
> Cc: [83]detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> Message-ID: <[84]72fddd.5edc2feb.43c804e3 at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
> In a message dated 1/13/16 11 28 28, [85]guson at home.se writes:
>
>
>> Yes Bill, most likely. I have installed calipers on the front side
of
>> the uprights, the holes were threaded and all. I think I heard that
not
>> all uprights are drilled front and back but it may be that only
newer
>> cars that suffer from that.
>
>>>> True--the GT5/GT5-S uprights are 'handed' with mounting holes only
on
> one side (which, when you think about it, is really dumb from a
production
> standpoint).
>
> Mike
> -------------- next part --------------
> In a message dated 1/13/16 11 28 28, [86]guson at home.se writes:
>
> Yes Bill, most likely. I have installed calipers on the front side
> of
> the uprights, the holes were threaded and all. I think I heard
that
> not
> all uprights are drilled front and back but it may be that only
> newer
> cars that suffer from that.
>
>>>> True--the GT5/GT5-S uprights are 'handed' with mounting holes only
> on one side (which, when you think about it, is really dumb from a
> production standpoint).
> Mike
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 15:19:19 -0500
> From: [87]MikeLDrew at aol.com
> To: [88]davel at emspace.com, [89]detomaso at poca.com,
[90]michael at michaelshortt.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Campagnolo Wheels
> Message-ID: <[91]73161a.56810af3.43c80b47 at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
> In a message dated 1/10/16 21 39 38, [92]davel at emspace.com writes:
>
>
>>
>> My 17" Hall wheels are a lot heavier than the mags.
>> I think that's fine for street, but aren't you concerned about the
>> unsprung weight for track use?
>> dave
>>
>>
>>>> Interesting. This was apparently a reply to an original post by
> Michael Shortt, but that post never came through to me nor did it
wind up
in my
> spam folder?
>
> I'm noting some irregularities with the forum these days....anyway,
> thankfully Dave included Michael's original post, so see replies
below:
>
>
>>> On 1/08/16 9:17 PM, Michael Shortt wrote:
>>> ? ?? Greetings,
>>>
>>> ? ?? After gathering all my wheels in one place and a brief
inventory
>> today,
>>> ? ?? I have 21 Campy wheels,
>>
>>>> Uh...that's a lot. :>)
>
>
>
>>> ? ?? 5 Single Slots and a mixture of the 4 Double Slots and Zero
Triple
>>> ? ?? Slots ( No 10") Plus 2 sets of 17" Boyd Coddington Wheels made
for
>> Hall
>>> ? ?? Pantera.
>
>>>> Uh, I don't think Coddington every made wheels for Hall? He did
make
> them for several other vendors, in several different styles, some
markedly
> better than others. Can you share some images perhaps to help in
> identification?
>
> Hall did have somebody cast up ten-spoke Si-looking wheels that were
welded
> together, and perhaps Coddington was the source for those?
>
>>>> ? ?? And the 17" 10 spokes on the car now with 335/35 and 245/40.
>>
>>>> What kind of wheels are those? 10 spokes is a pretty vague
> descriiption--although I admit I'm pretty certain how many spokes
they
have at least. :>
> )
>
>>>
>>> ? ?? I am keeping the 10 spokes with PZeros for Street use,
>>> ? ?? And one set of the 17" Hall Wheels with 315/235 Kumhos for
Rally
and
>>> ? ?? Track use.
>>
>>>> Wait--are you talking about Coddington Campagnolo clones, or Hall
wheels
> which are three-piece, bolt-together affairs, with a fake center
spinner?
> Those are as different as chalk and cheese (with the latter being the
only
> genuinely suspect/dangerous wheels I've ever encountered).
>
>
>>> ? ?? I will be keeping the Single Slots for Concours with skinny
>> Blackwalls
>>> ? ?? and a set of Double Slots with Vintage Arrivas for Photos,
With a
>> spare
>>> ? ?? Front and a Spare Rear in case of a boo boo.
>>
>>>> Sounds good!
>>>
>>>> ? ?? That leaves 2 full sets of double slot wheels to dispose of.
Sell
>> or
>>> ? ?? Trade. Photos Available.
>>
>>>> Somebody just asked for a set--Guy Dellavecchia? What kind are
they?
> Guy might want to trade his '71 two-slot wheels for some L-model
wheels?
>
>>> ? ?? I'd love a Triple Slot set. Anybody have some?
>>
>>>> I have only ever seen two of them (separately) in my life. These
were
> an experimental wheel used on the first pushmobile prototype. I have
no
> idea how many were put into production but I've never seen any other
car
> wearing them, so I would have to imagine the number is very small
indeed.
Even
> 1006, the earliest known Pantera extant, had single slot wheels.
>
> So don't hold your breath waiting for a full set of three-slot wheels
to
> appear. :>)
>
>>> I will sort them this week by design, Thanks Mike Drew for the
Campy
>>> ? ?? Wheel education.
>>
>>>> It's my pleasure, but at this point I'm far more concerned about
your
> aftermarket wheels. Simply put, I would never wish three-piece Hall
wheels
> on my worst enemy, and especially not for track use. We collectively
know
> about multiple failures, which always led to rapid deflation and a
potential
> accident. Jack has often told of the car that was zorching down Mt.
Ch
> arleston in Las Vegas at triple digit speeds one year when his Hall
wheel
> dismantled himself; I believe it thrust the car into the scenery, but
can't
> remember that aspect of the story for sure. Jack?
>
> Larry Stock had a car on the grass at Concorso that he was trying to
sell;
> a rear wheel simply blew apart while the car was parked (!) and he
had to
> tow it back to Nevada as it couldn't be fixed--it had cracked halfway
around.
> The other three wheels had similar cracks when they were taken apart
and
> inspected.
>
> And Mad Dog's fire was indirectly caused by the failure of his Hall
wheel;
> when the left rear wheel failed, the car fell down onto the freeway
in Los
> Angeles. What wasn't seen was that during the collapse, the brake
line
was
> damaged. MD swapped his stock wheels w/race tires on and ran the
Silver
> State a day or two later, but when he stepped on the brakes at the
finish
> line, the line ruptured, fluid sprayed onto the exhaust and the rest
was
> history.
>
> And on and on and on...I'm sure there are many others.
>
> Those wheels were a very well-intentioned design but they were
woefully
> under-engineered, and today should be related either to a display
case, or
a
> recycling bin IMHO....
>
> So tell me exactly what kind of wheels you're talking about here, as
the
> Coddington wheels (which I have aesthetic problems with, admittedly)
are
> nothing like these Hall wheels at all.
>
>>>> ? ?? Just let a local guy soda blast two of them down to the green
>> primer,
>>> ? ?? I'll probably paint them Argent Silver and Clear them just to
see
>> the
>>> ? ?? final results.
>>> ? ?? Photo attached.
>>
>>>> Since I didn't get your original e-mail, I didn't get the photo
> either....
>
> Cheers!
>
> Mike
> -------------- next part --------------
> In a message dated 1/10/16 21 39 38, [93]davel at emspace.com writes:
>
> My 17" Hall wheels are a lot heavier than the mags.
> I think that's fine for street, but aren't you concerned about the
> unsprung weight for track use?
> dave
>
>>>> Interesting. This was apparently a reply to an original post by
> Michael Shortt, but that post never came through to me nor did it
wind
> up in my spam folder?
> I'm noting some irregularities with the forum these days....anyway,
> thankfully Dave included Michael's original post, so see replies
below:
>
>> On 1/08/16 9:17 PM, Michael Shortt wrote:
>> Greetings,
>>
>> After gathering all my wheels in one place and a brief
> inventory today,
>> I have 21 Campy wheels,
>
>>>> Uh...that's a lot. :>)
>
>> 5 Single Slots and a mixture of the 4 Double Slots and Zero
> Triple
>> Slots ( No 10") Plus 2 sets of 17" Boyd Coddington Wheels made
> for Hall
>> Pantera.
>
>>>> Uh, I don't think Coddington every made wheels for Hall? He did
> make them for several other vendors, in several different styles,
some
> markedly better than others. Can you share some images perhaps to
help
> in identification?
> Hall did have somebody cast up ten-spoke Si-looking wheels that were
> welded together, and perhaps Coddington was the source for those?
>
>>> And the 17" 10 spokes on the car now with 335/35 and 245/40.
>
>>>> What kind of wheels are those? 10 spokes is a pretty vague
> descriiption--although I admit I'm pretty certain how many spokes
they
> have at least. :>)
>
>>
>> I am keeping the 10 spokes with PZeros for Street use,
>> And one set of the 17" Hall Wheels with 315/235 Kumhos for
> Rally and
>> Track use.
>
>>>> Wait--are you talking about Coddington Campagnolo clones, or Hall
> wheels which are three-piece, bolt-together affairs, with a fake
center
> spinner? Those are as different as chalk and cheese (with the
latter
> being the only genuinely suspect/dangerous wheels I've ever
> encountered).
>
>> I will be keeping the Single Slots for Concours with skinny
> Blackwalls
>> and a set of Double Slots with Vintage Arrivas for Photos,
> With a spare
>> Front and a Spare Rear in case of a boo boo.
>
>>>> Sounds good!
>
>>
>>> That leaves 2 full sets of double slot wheels to dispose of.
> Sell or
>> Trade. Photos Available.
>
>>>> Somebody just asked for a set--Guy Dellavecchia? What kind are
> they? Guy might want to trade his '71 two-slot wheels for some
L-model
> wheels?
>
>> I'd love a Triple Slot set. Anybody have some?
>
>>>> I have only ever seen two of them (separately) in my life. These
> were an experimental wheel used on the first pushmobile prototype.
I
> have no idea how many were put into production but I've never seen
any
> other car wearing them, so I would have to imagine the number is
very
> small indeed. Even 1006, the earliest known Pantera extant, had
single
> slot wheels.
> So don't hold your breath waiting for a full set of three-slot
wheels
> to appear. :>)
>
>> I will sort them this week by design, Thanks Mike Drew for the
> Campy
>> Wheel education.
>
>>>> It's my pleasure, but at this point I'm far more concerned about
> your aftermarket wheels. Simply put, I would never wish three-piece
> Hall wheels on my worst enemy, and especially not for track use. We
> collectively know about multiple failures, which always led to rapid
> deflation and a potential accident. Jack has often told of the car
> that was zorching down Mt. Charleston in Las Vegas at triple digit
> speeds one year when his Hall wheel dismantled himself; I believe it
> thrust the car into the scenery, but can't remember that aspect of
the
> story for sure. Jack?
> Larry Stock had a car on the grass at Concorso that he was trying to
> sell; a rear wheel simply blew apart while the car was parked (!)
and
> he had to tow it back to Nevada as it couldn't be fixed--it had
cracked
> halfway around. The other three wheels had similar cracks when they
> were taken apart and inspected.
> And Mad Dog's fire was indirectly caused by the failure of his Hall
> wheel; when the left rear wheel failed, the car fell down onto the
> freeway in Los Angeles. What wasn't seen was that during the
collapse,
> the brake line was damaged. MD swapped his stock wheels w/race
tires
> on and ran the Silver State a day or two later, but when he stepped
on
> the brakes at the finish line, the line ruptured, fluid sprayed onto
> the exhaust and the rest was history.
> And on and on and on...I'm sure there are many others.
> Those wheels were a very well-intentioned design but they were
woefully
> under-engineered, and today should be related either to a display
case,
> or a recycling bin IMHO....
> So tell me exactly what kind of wheels you're talking about here, as
> the Coddington wheels (which I have aesthetic problems with,
> admittedly) are nothing like these Hall wheels at all.
>
>>> Just let a local guy soda blast two of them down to the green
> primer,
>> I'll probably paint them Argent Silver and Clear them just to
> see the
>> final results.
>> Photo attached.
>
>>>> Since I didn't get your original e-mail, I didn't get the photo
> either....
> Cheers!
> Mike
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 12:23:56 -0800
> From: "Stephen" <[94]steve at snclocks.com>
> To: <[95]MikeLDrew at aol.com>, <[96]gaino at earthlink.net>,
<[97]guson at home.se>
> Cc: <[98]detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> Message-ID: <[99]00d501d14e40$54625920$fd270b60$@snclocks.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> When I was going through my brakes I wanted to clean out the e-brake
> housings and the cables. So, I cut off the cable ends, took
everything
> apart, took all the old plastic sheath off the housings, replaced
with
heavy
> shrink-to-fit, cut the housings to be a better fit with less excess
length,
> lubed with graphite-impregnated grease, then put new ends on the
cables to
> match the length that they needed to be. Went together very nicely.
>
>
>
> It would have been pretty much as simple to change length to match a
front
> mounting for the originals, but would have likely required cutting a
pair
of
> holes in the sheet metal - I hate extra holes.
>
>
>
> For what all that is worth.
>
>
>
> Stephen Nelson
>
>
>
>
>
> From: [100]MikeLDrew at aol.com [mailto:[101]MikeLDrew at aol.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2016 11:52 AM
> To: [102]gaino at earthlink.net; [103]steve at snclocks.com;
[104]guson at home.se
> Cc: [105]detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
>
>
>
>
> In a message dated 1/13/16 9 15 10, [106]gaino at earthlink.net
> <mailto:[107]gaino at earthlink.net> writes:
>
>
>
>
>
> Is it possible to mount the stock calipers in the front position to
use
> as Ebrake? He already has the Wilwoods installed and saftey wired
on
> the rear mounts.
>
>
>
>>>> People who say 'yes' are forgetting about simple mechanics. The
calipers
> are actuated by cables which are introduced into the rear of the
wheelwell.
> If the calipers are repositioned the cables will no longer fit, plus
if
> longer ones were used, they would foul the driveshafts on their way
forward.
> The only possible way to make a system like that work would be to
reposition
> the cables so they entered the wheelwells ahead of, instead of behind
the
> hub carriers, and there would be a fair bit of engineering involved.
I
> suppose it might be possible, but it certainly won't be a trivial
exercise.
>
> Mike
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> When I was going through my brakes I wanted to clean out the e-brake
> housings and the cables. So, I cut off the cable ends, took
everything
> apart, took all the old plastic sheath off the housings, replaced
with
> heavy shrink-to-fit, cut the housings to be a better fit with less
> excess length, lubed with graphite-impregnated grease, then put new
> ends on the cables to match the length that they needed to be. Went
> together very nicely.
>
>
> It would have been pretty much as simple to change length to match a
> front mounting for the originals, but would have likely required
> cutting a pair of holes in the sheet metal - I hate extra holes...
>
>
> For what all that is worth.
>
>
> Stephen Nelson
>
>
>
> From: [108]MikeLDrew at aol.com [mailto:[109]MikeLDrew at aol.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2016 11:52 AM
> To: [110]gaino at earthlink.net; [111]steve at snclocks.com;
[112]guson at home.se
> Cc: [113]detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
>
>
> In a message dated 1/13/16 9 15 10, [1][114]gaino at earthlink.net
writes:
>
> Is it possible to mount the stock calipers in the front
position
> to use
> as Ebrake? He already has the Wilwoods installed and saftey
> wired on
> the rear mounts.
>
>>>> People who say 'yes' are forgetting about simple mechanics. The
> calipers are actuated by cables which are introduced into the rear
of
> the wheelwell. If the calipers are repositioned the cables will no
> longer fit, plus if longer ones were used, they would foul the
> driveshafts on their way forward. The only possible way to make a
> system like that work would be to reposition the cables so they
entered
> the wheelwells ahead of, instead of behind the hub carriers, and
there
> would be a fair bit of engineering involved. I suppose it might be
> possible, but it certainly won't be a trivial exercise.
> Mike
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:[115]gaino at earthlink.net
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 21:07:23 +0000
> From: L GRAY <[116]tipo874a at msn.com>
> To: "[117]MikeLDrew at aol.com" <[118]MikeLDrew at aol.com>
> Cc: "[119]guson at home.se" <[120]guson at home.se>,
"[121]gaino at earthlink.net"
> <[122]gaino at earthlink.net>, "[123]detomaso at poca.com"
<[124]detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> Message-ID:
>
<[125]BLUPR19MB0163500785FD9792060E49A29DCB0 at BLUPR19MB0163.namprd19.pro
d.outlook.
com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
> Hate to disagree here Mike. The only uprights that were produced for
a
Pantera that were right or left handed were "some" of Hall Pantera's
aluminum uprights, and they originally had mounts on front and rear.
For
some reason later on in production they were built without both sets of
ears.......... never understood why .......as you said dumb idea !!
> The Group 4 uprights were manufactured with both sets of ears.
Some
of you may not know that the GT 5 and the GT 5-S rear uprights were
taken
from the competition Group 4 spares inventory.
>
> Leslie A. Gray
>
>> On Jan 13, 2016, at 12:53 PM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso
<[126]detomaso at poca.com>
wrote:
>>
>> In a message dated 1/13/16 11 28 28, [127]guson at home.se writes:
>>
>> Yes Bill, most likely. I have installed calipers on the front
side
>> of
>> the uprights, the holes were threaded and all. I think I heard
that
>> not
>> all uprights are drilled front and back but it may be that only
>> newer
>> cars that suffer from that.
>>
>>>>> True--the GT5/GT5-S uprights are 'handed' with mounting holes
only
>> on one side (which, when you think about it, is really dumb from a
>> production standpoint).
>> Mike
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> [128]DeTomaso at poca.com
>> [129]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
etc.) use
the links above.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 16:20:31 -0500
> From: Michael Shortt <[130]michaelsavga at gmail.com>
> To: 576103 <[131]MikeLDrew at aol.com>
> Cc: Dave Londry <[132]davel at emspace.com>, "[133]detomaso at poca.com"
> <[134]detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Campagnolo Wheels
> Message-ID:
>
<CAEWtxWrnqwjnrhKaKWzkxyc4SnmmwfoeAk1gHft7eVUsB=[135]Di5Q at mail.gmail.co
m>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> none of my wheels are assembled ( fasteners) 3 piece wheels, all are
welded
> or billet.
>
> I have driven on the wheels on street, on track and on the Tail of
the
> Dragon and have had zero issues in 12 years with 2 different designs,
> not sure who mad ethe current wheels ( 10 spoke ), but they show no
signs
> of stress, damage either.
>
> It may be my luck, it could be others bad luck, it could be misuse
and
> driving style.
>
> My Dad owned 3 Audi 5000's, he never had any issues either, maybe
because
> he never pressed the gas instead of the brake.
>
>
> Michael Shortt
>
>> On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 3:19 PM, <[136]MikeLDrew at aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 1/10/16 21 39 38, [137]davel at emspace.com writes:
>>
>>
>>
>> My 17" Hall wheels are a lot heavier than the mags.
>> I think that's fine for street, but aren't you concerned about the
>> unsprung weight for track use?
>> dave
>>
>>
>>>>> Interesting. This was apparently a reply to an original post by
>> Michael Shortt, but that post never came through to me nor did it
wind up
>> in my spam folder?
>>
>> I'm noting some irregularities with the forum these days....anyway,
>> thankfully Dave included Michael's original post, so see replies
below:
>>
>>
>>> On 1/08/16 9:17 PM, Michael Shortt wrote:
>>> Greetings,
>>>
>>> After gathering all my wheels in one place and a brief inventory
>> today,
>>> I have 21 Campy wheels,
>>
>>>>> Uh...that's a lot. :>)
>>
>>
>>
>>> 5 Single Slots and a mixture of the 4 Double Slots and Zero
Triple
>>> Slots ( No 10") Plus 2 sets of 17" Boyd Coddington Wheels made
for
>> Hall
>>> Pantera.
>>
>>
>>>>> Uh, I don't think Coddington every made wheels for Hall? He did
make
>> them for several other vendors, in several different styles, some
markedly
>> better than others. Can you share some images perhaps to help in
>> identification?
>>
>> Hall did have somebody cast up ten-spoke Si-looking wheels that were
>> welded together, and perhaps Coddington was the source for those?
>>
>>>> And the 17" 10 spokes on the car now with 335/35 and 245/40.
>>
>>>>> What kind of wheels are those? 10 spokes is a pretty vague
>> descriiption--although I admit I'm pretty certain how many spokes
they
have
>> at least. :>)
>>
>>>
>>> I am keeping the 10 spokes with PZeros for Street use,
>>> And one set of the 17" Hall Wheels with 315/235 Kumhos for Rally
and
>>> Track use.
>>
>>>>> Wait--are you talking about Coddington Campagnolo clones, or Hall
>> wheels which are three-piece, bolt-together affairs, with a fake
center
>> spinner? Those are as different as chalk and cheese (with the
latter
being
>> the only genuinely suspect/dangerous wheels I've ever encountered).
>>
>>
>>> I will be keeping the Single Slots for Concours with skinny
>> Blackwalls
>>> and a set of Double Slots with Vintage Arrivas for Photos, With
a
>> spare
>>> Front and a Spare Rear in case of a boo boo.
>>
>>>>> Sounds good!
>>
>>>
>>>> That leaves 2 full sets of double slot wheels to dispose of.
Sell or
>>> Trade. Photos Available.
>>
>>>>> Somebody just asked for a set--Guy Dellavecchia? What kind are
they?
>> Guy might want to trade his '71 two-slot wheels for some L-model
wheels?
>>
>>> I'd love a Triple Slot set. Anybody have some?
>>
>>>>> I have only ever seen two of them (separately) in my life. These
were
>> an experimental wheel used on the first pushmobile prototype. I
have no
>> idea how many were put into production but I've never seen any other
car
>> wearing them, so I would have to imagine the number is very small
indeed.
>> Even 1006, the earliest known Pantera extant, had single slot
wheels.
>>
>> So don't hold your breath waiting for a full set of three-slot
wheels to
>> appear. :>)
>>
>>> I will sort them this week by design, Thanks Mike Drew for the
Campy
>>> Wheel education.
>>
>>>>> It's my pleasure, but at this point I'm far more concerned about
your
>> aftermarket wheels. Simply put, I would never wish three-piece Hall
wheels
>> on my worst enemy, and especially not for track use. We
collectively
know
>> about multiple failures, which always led to rapid deflation and a
>> potential accident. Jack has often told of the car that was
zorching
down
>> Mt. Charleston in Las Vegas at triple digit speeds one year when his
Hall
>> wheel dismantled himself; I believe it thrust the car into the
scenery,
but
>> can't remember that aspect of the story for sure. Jack?
>>
>> Larry Stock had a car on the grass at Concorso that he was trying to
sell;
>> a rear wheel simply blew apart while the car was parked (!) and he
had to
>> tow it back to Nevada as it couldn't be fixed--it had cracked
halfway
>> around. The other three wheels had similar cracks when they were
taken
>> apart and inspected.
>>
>> And Mad Dog's fire was indirectly caused by the failure of his Hall
wheel;
>> when the left rear wheel failed, the car fell down onto the freeway
in
Los
>> Angeles. What wasn't seen was that during the collapse, the brake
line
was
>> damaged. MD swapped his stock wheels w/race tires on and ran the
Silver
>> State a day or two later, but when he stepped on the brakes at the
finish
>> line, the line ruptured, fluid sprayed onto the exhaust and the rest
was
>> history.
>>
>> And on and on and on...I'm sure there are many others.
>>
>> Those wheels were a very well-intentioned design but they were
woefully
>> under-engineered, and today should be related either to a display
case,
or
>> a recycling bin IMHO....
>>
>> So tell me exactly what kind of wheels you're talking about here, as
the
>> Coddington wheels (which I have aesthetic problems with, admittedly)
are
>> nothing like these Hall wheels at all.
>>
>>>> Just let a local guy soda blast two of them down to the green
>> primer,
>>> I'll probably paint them Argent Silver and Clear them just to
see the
>>> final results.
>>> Photo attached.
>>
>>>>> Since I didn't get your original e-mail, I didn't get the photo
>> either....
>>
>> Cheers!
>>
>> Mike
>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Michael L. Shortt
> Savannah, Georgia
> [138]www.michaelshortt.com
> [139]michael at michaelshortt.com
> 912-232-9390
>
>
> This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy
> Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally
> privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby
notified
> that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this
> communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender
that you
> have received this message in error, then delete it. Thank you
> -------------- next part --------------
> none of my wheels are assembled ( fasteners) 3 piece wheels, all are
> welded or billet.
> I have driven on the wheels on street, on track and on the Tail of
the
> Dragon and have had zero issues in 12 years with 2 different
designs,
> not sure who mad ethe current wheels ( 10 spoke ), but they show no
> signs of stress, damage either.
> It may be my luck, it could be others bad luck, it could be misuse
and
> driving style.
> My Dad owned 3 Audi 5000's, he never had any issues either, maybe
> because he never pressed the gas instead of the brake.
> Michael Shortt
>
> On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 3:19 PM, <[1][140]MikeLDrew at aol.com> wrote:
>
> In a message dated 1/10/16 21 39 38, [2][141]davel at emspace.com
writes:
> My 17" Hall wheels are a lot heavier than the mags.
> I think that's fine for street, but aren't you concerned about the
> unsprung weight for track use?
> dave
>>>> Interesting.A This was apparently a reply to an original post by
> Michael Shortt, but that post never came through to me nor did it
> wind up in my spam folder?
> I'm noting some irregularities with the forum these
days....anyway,
> thankfully Dave included Michael's original post, so see replies
> below:
>> On 1/08/16 9:17 PM, Michael Shortt wrote:
>> A A A Greetings,
>>
>> A A A After gathering all my wheels in one place and a brief
> inventory today,
>> A A A I have 21 Campy wheels,
>>>> Uh...that's a lot. :>)
>
>> A A A 5 Single Slots and a mixture of the 4 Double Slots and Zero
> Triple
>> A A A Slots ( No 10") Plus 2 sets of 17" Boyd Coddington Wheels
> made for Hall
>> A A A Pantera.
>>>> Uh, I don't think Coddington every made wheels for Hall?A He did
> make them for several other vendors, in several different styles,
> some markedly better than others.A Can you share some images
> perhaps to help in identification?
> Hall did have somebody cast up ten-spoke Si-looking wheels that
were
> welded together, and perhaps Coddington was the source for those?
>
>>> A A A And the 17" 10 spokes on the car now with 335/35 and
> 245/40.
>>>> What kind of wheels are those?A 10 spokes is a pretty vague
> descriiption--although I admit I'm pretty certain how many spokes
> they have at least. :>)
>
>>
>> A A A I am keeping the 10 spokes with PZeros for Street use,
>> A A A And one set of the 17" Hall Wheels with 315/235 Kumhos for
> Rally and
>> A A A Track use.
>>>> Wait--are you talking about Coddington Campagnolo clones, or Hall
> wheels which are three-piece, bolt-together affairs, with a fake
> center spinner?A Those are as different as chalk and cheese (with
> the latter being the only genuinely suspect/dangerous wheels I've
> ever encountered).
>
>> A A A I will be keeping the Single Slots for Concours with skinny
> Blackwalls
>> A A A and a set of Double Slots with Vintage Arrivas for Photos,
> With a spare
>> A A A Front and a Spare Rear in case of a boo boo.
>>>> Sounds good!A
>
>>
>>> A A A That leaves 2 full sets of double slot wheels to dispose
> of. Sell or
>> A A A Trade. Photos Available.
>>>> Somebody just asked for a set--Guy Dellavecchia?A What kind are
> they?A Guy might want to trade his '71 two-slot wheels for some
> L-model wheels?
>
>> A A A I'd love a Triple Slot set. Anybody have some?
>>>> I have only ever seen two of them (separately) in my life.A
> These were an experimental wheel used on the first pushmobile
> prototype.A I have no idea how many were put into production but
> I've never seen any other car wearing them, so I would have to
> imagine the number is very small indeed.A Even 1006, the earliest
> known Pantera extant, had single slot wheels.
> So don't hold your breath waiting for a full set of three-slot
> wheels to appear. :>)
>
>> I will sort them this week by design, Thanks Mike Drew for the
> Campy
>> A A A Wheel education.
>>>> It's my pleasure, but at this point I'm far more concerned about
> your aftermarket wheels.A Simply put, I would never wish
> three-piece Hall wheels on my worst enemy, and especially not for
> track use.A We collectively know about multiple failures, which
> always led to rapid deflation and a potential accident.A Jack has
> often told of the car that was zorching down Mt. Charleston in Las
> Vegas at triple digit speeds one year when his Hall wheel
dismantled
> himself; I believe it thrust the car into the scenery, but can't
> remember that aspect of the story for sure.A Jack?
> Larry Stock had a car on the grass at Concorso that he was trying
to
> sell; a rear wheel simply blew apart while the car was parked (!)
> and he had to tow it back to Nevada as it couldn't be fixed--it
had
> cracked halfway around.A The other three wheels had similar
cracks
> when they were taken apart and inspected.
> And Mad Dog's fire was indirectly caused by the failure of his
Hall
> wheel; when the left rear wheel failed, the car fell down onto the
> freeway in Los Angeles.A What wasn't seen was that during the
> collapse, the brake line was damaged.A MD swapped his stock
wheels
> w/race tires on and ran the Silver State a day or two later, but
> when he stepped on the brakes at the finish line, the line
ruptured,
> fluid sprayed onto the exhaust and the rest was history.
> And on and on and on...I'm sure there are many others.
> Those wheels were a very well-intentioned design but they were
> woefully under-engineered, and today should be related either to a
> display case, or a recycling bin IMHO....
> So tell me exactly what kind of wheels you're talking about here,
as
> the Coddington wheels (which I have aesthetic problems with,
> admittedly) are nothing like these Hall wheels at all.
>>> A A A Just let a local guy soda blast two of them down to the
> green primer,
>> A A A I'll probably paint them Argent Silver and Clear them just
> to see the
>> A A A final results.
>> A A A Photo attached.
>>
>>>> Since I didn't get your original e-mail, I didn't get the photo
> either....
> Cheers!
> Mike
>
> --
> Michael L. Shortt
> Savannah, Georgia
> [3][142]www.michaelshortt.com
> [4][143]michael at michaelshortt.com
> 912-232-9390
> A
> This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy
> Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally
> privileged.A If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby
> notified
> that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this
> communication is strictly prohibited.A Please reply to the sender
that
> you
> have received this message in error, then delete it.A Thank you
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:[144]MikeLDrew at aol.com
> 2. mailto:[145]davel at emspace.com
> 3. [146]http://www.michaelshortt.com/
> 4. mailto:[147]michael at michaelshortt.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 13:23:36 -0800
> From: "Tomas Gunnarsson" <[148]guson at home.se>
> To: <[149]MikeLDrew at aol.com>
> Cc: <[150]gaino at earthlink.net>, <[151]detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> Message-ID: <[152]F6F0EDD7F26440B0970C3CD2C70F6033 at mail2world.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Mike,
>
> Bill originally wrote: Something that that blocks fluid in the brake
> lines to hold calipers pressed against the rotors.
>
>
> Aka line loc.
>
>
> OEM electric parking brakes work by having an electric motor actuate
the
> brake via a mechanical device, like a wire.
>
>
> Tomas
>
>
>
> <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
>
> From: Mike Drew via DeTomaso [[153]detomaso at poca.com]
> Sent: 13/1/2016 8:51:53 PM
> To: [154]guson at home.se;[155]gaino at earthlink.net
> Cc: [156]detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
>
>
> In a message dated 1/13/16 8 03 59, [157]guson at home.se writes:
>
>
>> That's simply not a good solution. Doesn't work as an emergency
brake
>> and parking brake function is dubious. If you park your car with the
>> brakes hot they may release when they cool off.
>
>>>> Tomas, you're talking about a simple line lock. He's asking about
an
> (electrical) solenoid-operated system, which was pioneered by the
OEMs
> and is
> in wide use (and is, significantly, sufficiently effective to satisfy
> government regulations worldwide). Such systems are now available in
the
> aftermarket.
>
> I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems work by
> pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple
mechanical
> 'arm' that
> is pulling on a mechanical parking brake? Does anybody know that for
> sure?
>
> You're correct in asserting that a simple line lock is insufficient
to
> hold
> a car for any length of time; they are designed for very short-term
use
> only. Geoff Peters' Pantera nearly missed (by less than an inch)
> crashing
> into an Aston Martin DB4 when he let a friend borrow it and the fool
> parked it
> overnight on a slope in neutral with the line lock engaged. As the
> brakes
> cooled at night, they released and the car rolled through a lot
crowded
> with
> collector cars, brushed past the Aston and crashed through a hedge
and
> down
> into a ditch! Fortunately it was unhurt, but it could have been very
bad
> indeed.
>
> A solenoid-type system that actuated the brake hydraulics would be
much
> more effective because it has its own master cylinder that would
still
> hold
> pressure even as the fluid cooled. However, it would not serve as a
> proper
> emergency brake if there was a hydraulic failure (say, a seal blew
out
> in a
> caliper) whereas a cable-type system that mechanically leverages the
> components of the caliper requires no hydraulics to work.
>
> Mike (who has had no parking brake at all for the past 30
years...park
> wisely and hope for the best!)
> -------------- next part --------------
> Mike,
>
> Bill originally wrote: Something that that blocks fluid in the brake
> lines to hold calipers pressed against the rotors.
>
> Aka line loc.
>
> OEM electric parking brakes work by having an electric motor actuate
> the brake via a mechanical device, like a wire.
>
> Tomas
> <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
> From: Mike Drew via DeTomaso [[158]detomaso at poca.com]
> Sent: 13/1/2016 8:51:53 PM
> To: [159]guson at home.se;[160]gaino at earthlink.net
> Cc: [161]detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> In a message dated 1/13/16 8 03 59, [162]guson at home.se writes:
>> That's simply not a good solution. Doesn't work as an emergency
brake
>> and parking brake function is dubious. If you park your car with the
>> brakes hot they may release when they cool off.
>>
>>>> Tomas, you're talking about a simple line lock. He's asking about
an
> (electrical) solenoid-operated system, which was pioneered by the
OEMs
> and is
> in wide use (and is, significantly, sufficiently effective to
satisfy
> government regulations worldwide). Such systems are now available in
> the
> aftermarket.
> I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems work by
> pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple
mechanical
> 'arm' that
> is pulling on a mechanical parking brake? Does anybody know that for
> sure?
> You're correct in asserting that a simple line lock is insufficient
to
> hold
> a car for any length of time; they are designed for very short-term
use
> only. Geoff Peters' Pantera nearly missed (by less than an inch)
> crashing
> into an Aston Martin DB4 when he let a friend borrow it and the fool
> parked it
> overnight on a slope in neutral with the line lock engaged. As the
> brakes
> cooled at night, they released and the car rolled through a lot
crowded
> with
> collector cars, brushed past the Aston and crashed through a hedge
and
> down
> into a ditch! Fortunately it was unhurt, but it could have been very
> bad
> indeed.
> A solenoid-type system that actuated the brake hydraulics would be
much
> more effective because it has its own master cylinder that would
still
> hold
> pressure even as the fluid cooled. However, it would not serve as a
> proper
> emergency brake if there was a hydraulic failure (say, a seal blew
out
> in a
> caliper) whereas a cable-type system that mechanically leverages the
> components of the caliper requires no hydraulics to work.
> Mike (who has had no parking brake at all for the past 30
years...park
> wisely and hope for the best!)
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 13:30:22 -0800
> From: Larry Stock <[163]larrys at panteraparts.com>
> To: <[164]MikeLDrew at aol.com>, <[165]davel at emspace.com>,
<[166]detomaso at poca.com>,
> <[167]michael at michaelshortt.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Campagnolo Wheels
> Message-ID: <D2BC0041.15C59F%[168]larrys at panteraparts.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
>
> I am taking in a set of 8?s and 10?s X15? Campy?s with new tires next
week
> on a sale and trade I am doing. Since you guys are talking about
these, I
> am going to have a set available in the next week or so.
> E-mail me for more info and details.
> [169]Larrys at PanteraParts.com (1-800-DeTomaso) 800-338-6627
>
>
> On 1/13/16, 12:19 PM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Mike Drew via DeTomaso"
> <[170]detomaso-bounces at poca.com on behalf of [171]detomaso at poca.com>
wrote:
>
>> In a message dated 1/10/16 21 39 38, [172]davel at emspace.com writes:
>>
>> My 17" Hall wheels are a lot heavier than the mags.
>> I think that's fine for street, but aren't you concerned about
the
>> unsprung weight for track use?
>> dave
>>
>>>>> Interesting. This was apparently a reply to an original post by
>> Michael Shortt, but that post never came through to me nor did it
wind
>> up in my spam folder?
>> I'm noting some irregularities with the forum these days....anyway,
>> thankfully Dave included Michael's original post, so see replies
below:
>>
>>> On 1/08/16 9:17 PM, Michael Shortt wrote:
>>> Greetings,
>>>
>>> After gathering all my wheels in one place and a brief
>> inventory today,
>>> I have 21 Campy wheels,
>>
>>>>> Uh...that's a lot. :>)
>>
>>> 5 Single Slots and a mixture of the 4 Double Slots and Zero
>> Triple
>>> Slots ( No 10") Plus 2 sets of 17" Boyd Coddington Wheels made
>> for Hall
>>> Pantera.
>>
>>>>> Uh, I don't think Coddington every made wheels for Hall? He did
>> make them for several other vendors, in several different styles,
some
>> markedly better than others. Can you share some images perhaps to
help
>> in identification?
>> Hall did have somebody cast up ten-spoke Si-looking wheels that
were
>> welded together, and perhaps Coddington was the source for those?
>>
>>>> And the 17" 10 spokes on the car now with 335/35 and 245/40.
>>
>>>>> What kind of wheels are those? 10 spokes is a pretty vague
>> descriiption--although I admit I'm pretty certain how many spokes
they
>> have at least. :>)
>>
>>>
>>> I am keeping the 10 spokes with PZeros for Street use,
>>> And one set of the 17" Hall Wheels with 315/235 Kumhos for
>> Rally and
>>> Track use.
>>
>>>>> Wait--are you talking about Coddington Campagnolo clones, or Hall
>> wheels which are three-piece, bolt-together affairs, with a fake
center
>> spinner? Those are as different as chalk and cheese (with the
latter
>> being the only genuinely suspect/dangerous wheels I've ever
>> encountered).
>>
>>> I will be keeping the Single Slots for Concours with skinny
>> Blackwalls
>>> and a set of Double Slots with Vintage Arrivas for Photos,
>> With a spare
>>> Front and a Spare Rear in case of a boo boo.
>>
>>>>> Sounds good!
>>
>>>
>>>> That leaves 2 full sets of double slot wheels to dispose of.
>> Sell or
>>> Trade. Photos Available.
>>
>>>>> Somebody just asked for a set--Guy Dellavecchia? What kind are
>> they? Guy might want to trade his '71 two-slot wheels for some
L-model
>> wheels?
>>
>>> I'd love a Triple Slot set. Anybody have some?
>>
>>>>> I have only ever seen two of them (separately) in my life. These
>> were an experimental wheel used on the first pushmobile prototype.
I
>> have no idea how many were put into production but I've never seen
any
>> other car wearing them, so I would have to imagine the number is
very
>> small indeed. Even 1006, the earliest known Pantera extant, had
single
>> slot wheels.
>> So don't hold your breath waiting for a full set of three-slot
wheels
>> to appear. :>)
>>
>>> I will sort them this week by design, Thanks Mike Drew for the
>> Campy
>>> Wheel education.
>>
>>>>> It's my pleasure, but at this point I'm far more concerned about
>> your aftermarket wheels. Simply put, I would never wish
three-piece
>> Hall wheels on my worst enemy, and especially not for track use.
We
>> collectively know about multiple failures, which always led to
rapid
>> deflation and a potential accident. Jack has often told of the car
>> that was zorching down Mt. Charleston in Las Vegas at triple digit
>> speeds one year when his Hall wheel dismantled himself; I believe
it
>> thrust the car into the scenery, but can't remember that aspect of
the
>> story for sure. Jack?
>> Larry Stock had a car on the grass at Concorso that he was trying
to
>> sell; a rear wheel simply blew apart while the car was parked (!)
and
>> he had to tow it back to Nevada as it couldn't be fixed--it had
cracked
>> halfway around. The other three wheels had similar cracks when
they
>> were taken apart and inspected.
>> And Mad Dog's fire was indirectly caused by the failure of his Hall
>> wheel; when the left rear wheel failed, the car fell down onto the
>> freeway in Los Angeles. What wasn't seen was that during the
collapse,
>> the brake line was damaged. MD swapped his stock wheels w/race
tires
>> on and ran the Silver State a day or two later, but when he stepped
on
>> the brakes at the finish line, the line ruptured, fluid sprayed
onto
>> the exhaust and the rest was history.
>> And on and on and on...I'm sure there are many others.
>> Those wheels were a very well-intentioned design but they were
woefully
>> under-engineered, and today should be related either to a display
case,
>> or a recycling bin IMHO....
>> So tell me exactly what kind of wheels you're talking about here,
as
>> the Coddington wheels (which I have aesthetic problems with,
>> admittedly) are nothing like these Hall wheels at all.
>>
>>>> Just let a local guy soda blast two of them down to the green
>> primer,
>>> I'll probably paint them Argent Silver and Clear them just to
>> see the
>>> final results.
>>> Photo attached.
>>
>>>>> Since I didn't get your original e-mail, I didn't get the photo
>> either....
>> Cheers!
>> Mike
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> [173]DeTomaso at poca.com
>> [174]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
etc.) use
>> the links above.
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 22:53:34 +0100
> From: Charles McCall <[175]charlesmccall at gmail.com>
> To: <[176]MikeLDrew at aol.com>, <[177]guson at home.se>,
<[178]gaino at earthlink.net>,
> <[179]detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> Message-ID: <[180]00fd01d14e4c$dac3a170$904ae450$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems work by
> pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple
mechanical
'arm'
> that
> is pulling on a mechanical parking brake? Does anybody know that for
sure?
> ****Audis use a mechanical parking brake actuated by a solenoid - the
second
> case. They do not pressurize the fluid in the line. They have some
> electronics to ease the brake on if you are moving, but actuating it
at
any
> speed locks up your brakes. They are either on or off.
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 14:02:11 -0800
> From: "Tomas Gunnarsson" <[181]guson at home.se>
> To: <[182]charlesmccall at gmail.com>
> Cc: <[183]detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> Message-ID: <[184]72F2415F8F0A41A0BC5857747006BB5D at mail2world.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> It is more likely a linear actuator driven by a motor. A solenoid
would
> not be good as it would need to draw current for the whole time the
> brakes are on. You can probably hear the motor whine when you flip
the
> switch (or whatever) and then it goes silent when the brakes are
on/off.
> Where there's legislation requiring a parking brake it's usually also
a
> requirement that it's mechanically actuated, hydraulics are not
allowed.
>
> Tomas
>
>
>
> <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
>
> From: Charles McCall [[185]charlesmccall at gmail.com]
> Sent: 13/1/2016 10:53:34 PM
> To:
>
[186]MikeLDrew at aol.com;[187]guson at home.se;[188]gaino at earthlink.net;[189
]detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
>
> I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems work by
> pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple
mechanical
> 'arm'
> that
> is pulling on a mechanical parking brake? Does anybody know that for
> sure?
> ****Audis use a mechanical parking brake actuated by a solenoid - the
> second
> case. They do not pressurize the fluid in the line. They have some
> electronics to ease the brake on if you are moving, but actuating it
at
> any
> speed locks up your brakes. They are either on or off.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [190]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [191]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> use the links above.
> .
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> It is more likely a linear actuator driven by a motor. A solenoid
would
> not be good as it would need to draw current for the whole time the
> brakes are on. You can probably hear the motor whine when you flip
the
> switch (or whatever) and then it goes silent when the brakes are
> on/off. Where there's legislation requiring a parking brake it's
> usually also a requirement that it's mechanically actuated,
hydraulics
> are not allowed.
>
> Tomas
> <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
> From: Charles McCall [[192]charlesmccall at gmail.com]
> Sent: 13/1/2016 10:53:34 PM
> To:
>
[193]MikeLDrew at aol.com;[194]guson at home.se;[195]gaino at earthlink.net;[196
]detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems work by
> pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple
mechanical
> 'arm'
> that
> is pulling on a mechanical parking brake? Does anybody know that for
> sure?
> ****Audis use a mechanical parking brake actuated by a solenoid -
the
> second
> case. They do not pressurize the fluid in the line. They have some
> electronics to ease the brake on if you are moving, but actuating it
at
> any
> speed locks up your brakes. They are either on or off.
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [197]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [198]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
etc.)
> use the links above.
> .
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 23:04:27 +0100
> From: Charles McCall <[199]charlesmccall at gmail.com>
> To: "'Tomas Gunnarsson'" <[200]guson at home.se>
> Cc: <[201]detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> Message-ID: <[202]010701d14e4e$5fc90440$1f5b0cc0$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Sorry, you are correct that it is a linear actuator. I answered
quickly.
In
> any case, it is a mechanical actuator and not pressurizing the
hydraulic
> line.
>
>
>
> From: Tomas Gunnarsson [mailto:[203]guson at home.se]
> Sent: mi?rcoles, 13 de enero de 2016 23:02
> To: [204]charlesmccall at gmail.com
> Cc: [205]detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
>
>
>
> It is more likely a linear actuator driven by a motor. A solenoid
would
not
> be good as it would need to draw current for the whole time the
brakes are
> on. You can probably hear the motor whine when you flip the switch
(or
> whatever) and then it goes silent when the brakes are on/off. Where
there's
> legislation requiring a parking brake it's usually also a requirement
that
> it's mechanically actuated, hydraulics are not allowed.
>
>
>
> Tomas
>
>
>
> <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Charles McCall [[206]charlesmccall at gmail.com]
> Sent: 13/1/2016 10:53:34 PM
> To:
[207]MikeLDrew at aol.com;[208]guson at home.se;[209]gaino at earthlink.net;[210
]detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
>
> I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems work by
> pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple
mechanical
'arm'
>
> that
> is pulling on a mechanical parking brake? Does anybody know that for
sure?
> ****Audis use a mechanical parking brake actuated by a solenoid - the
second
>
> case. They do not pressurize the fluid in the line. They have some
> electronics to ease the brake on if you are moving, but actuating it
at
any
> speed locks up your brakes. They are either on or off.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [211]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [212]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
use
> the links above.
> .
>
>
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> Sorry, you are correct that it is a linear actuator. I answered
> quickly. In any case, it is a mechanical actuator and not
pressurizing
> the hydraulic line.
>
>
> From: Tomas Gunnarsson [mailto:[213]guson at home.se]
> Sent: miercoles, 13 de enero de 2016 23:02
> To: [214]charlesmccall at gmail.com
> Cc: [215]detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
>
>
> It is more likely a linear actuator driven by a motor. A solenoid
would
> not be good as it would need to draw current for the whole time the
> brakes are on. You can probably hear the motor whine when you flip
the
> switch (or whatever) and then it goes silent when the brakes are
> on/off. Where there's legislation requiring a parking brake it's
> usually also a requirement that it's mechanically actuated,
hydraulics
> are not allowed.
>
>
> Tomas
>
> <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
>
>
>
> From: Charles McCall [[216]charlesmccall at gmail.com]
> Sent: 13/1/2016 10:53:34 PM
> To:
>
[1][217]MikeLDrew at aol.com;[218]guson at home.se;[219]gaino at earthlink.net;[
220]detomaso at poca.co
> m
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems work by
> pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple
mechanical
> 'arm'
> that
> is pulling on a mechanical parking brake? Does anybody know that for
> sure?
> ****Audis use a mechanical parking brake actuated by a solenoid -
the
> second
> case. They do not pressurize the fluid in the line. They have some
> electronics to ease the brake on if you are moving, but actuating it
at
> any
> speed locks up your brakes. They are either on or off.
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [2][221]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [3][222]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
etc.)
> use the links above.
> .
>
> References
>
> 1.
mailto:[223]MikeLDrew at aol.com;[224]guson at home.se;[225]gaino at earthlink.n
et;[226]detomaso at poca.com
> 2. mailto:[227]DeTomaso at poca.com
> 3. [228]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 23:09:38 +0100
> From: Thomas Tornblom <[229]thomas at hax.se>
> To: [230]detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> Message-ID: <[231]5696CB22.5070902 at hax.se>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>
> I believe VW electric parking brake have an electric motor directly
on
> the caliper, no cables.
>
>
> Den 2016-01-13 22:53, Charles McCall skrev:
>> I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems work by
>> pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple
mechanical
'arm'
>> that
>> is pulling on a mechanical parking brake? Does anybody know that
for
sure?
>> ****Audis use a mechanical parking brake actuated by a solenoid -
the
second
>> case. They do not pressurize the fluid in the line. They have some
>> electronics to ease the brake on if you are moving, but actuating it
at
any
>> speed locks up your brakes. They are either on or off.
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> [232]DeTomaso at poca.com
>> [233]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
etc.) use
the links above.
>>
>> !DSPAM:5696c7e73519021468!
>
>
> --
> Real life: Thomas T?rnblom Email: [234]thomas at hax.se
> Snail mail: Banvallsv?gen 14 Phone: +46 18 32 31 18
> S - 754 40 Uppsala, Sweden Mobile: +46 76 209 8320
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 22:15:16 +0000 (UTC)
> From: marshall smith <[235]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
> To: <[236]davel at emspace.com>, <[237]detomaso at poca.com>,
> <[238]michael at michaelshortt.com>, <[239]MikeLDrew at aol.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Campagnolo Wheels
> Message-ID:
>
<[240]621399975.3851038.1452723316243.JavaMail.yahoo at mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> FYI....
>
> I have 17 inch Hall 10 spoke wheels. They have welded centers and
came
with a center hub that had a dummy spinner and cone that covered the
lug
nuts or you could delete the cone and go with exposed lug nuts.
> I was told that Boyd made these. Hall called them Mark 10s as I
recall.
>
> Marshall
> --------------------------------------------
> On Wed, 1/13/16, Mike Drew via DeTomaso <[241]detomaso at poca.com>
wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Campagnolo Wheels
> To: [242]davel at emspace.com, [243]detomaso at poca.com,
[244]michael at michaelshortt.com
> Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2016, 12:19 PM
>
> ???In a message dated
> 1/10/16 21 39 38, [245]davel at emspace.com
> writes:
>
> ? ???My 17" Hall wheels are a lot
> heavier than the mags.
> ? ???I think that's fine for street, but
> aren't you concerned about the
> ? ???unsprung weight for track use?
> ? ???dave
>
> ???>>>Interesting.? This was
> apparently a reply to an original post by
> ???Michael Shortt, but that post never came
> through to me nor did it wind
> ???up in my spam folder?
> ???I'm noting some irregularities with the
> forum these days....anyway,
> ???thankfully Dave included Michael's
> original post, so see replies below:
>
> ? ???On 1/08/16 9:17 PM, Michael Shortt
> wrote:
> ? ???>?
> ???Greetings,
> ? ???>
> ? ???>? ???After
> gathering all my wheels in one place and a brief
> ? ???inventory today,
> ? ???>? ???I have
> 21 Campy wheels,
>
> ???>>>Uh...that's a lot. :>)
>
> ? ???>? ???5
> Single Slots and a mixture of the 4 Double Slots and Zero
> ? ???Triple
> ? ???>? ???Slots
> ( No 10") Plus 2 sets of 17" Boyd Coddington Wheels made
> ? ???for Hall
> ? ???>?
> ???Pantera.
>
> ???>>>Uh, I don't think Coddington
> every made wheels for Hall?? He did
> ???make them for several other vendors, in
> several different styles, some
> ???markedly better than others.? Can you
> share some images perhaps to help
> ???in identification?
> ???Hall did have somebody cast up ten-spoke
> Si-looking wheels that were
> ???welded together, and perhaps Coddington
> was the source for those?
>
> ? ???>>?
> ???And the 17" 10 spokes on the car now with
> 335/35 and 245/40.
>
> ???>>>What kind of wheels are
> those?? 10 spokes is a pretty vague
> ???descriiption--although I admit I'm pretty
> certain how many spokes they
> ???have at least. :>)
>
> ? ???>
> ? ???>? ???I am
> keeping the 10 spokes with PZeros for Street use,
> ? ???>? ???And
> one set of the 17" Hall Wheels with 315/235 Kumhos for
> ? ???Rally and
> ? ???>? ???Track
> use.
>
> ???>>>Wait--are you talking about
> Coddington Campagnolo clones, or Hall
> ???wheels which are three-piece,
> bolt-together affairs, with a fake center
> ???spinner?? Those are as different as
> chalk and cheese (with the latter
> ???being the only genuinely suspect/dangerous
> wheels I've ever
> ???encountered).
>
> ? ???>? ???I will
> be keeping the Single Slots for Concours with skinny
> ? ???Blackwalls
> ? ???>? ???and a
> set of Double Slots with Vintage Arrivas for Photos,
> ? ???With a spare
> ? ???>? ???Front
> and a Spare Rear in case of a boo boo.
>
> ???>>>Sounds good!
>
> ? ???>
> ? ???>>?
> ???That leaves 2 full sets of double slot
> wheels to dispose of.
> ? ???Sell or
> ? ???>? ???Trade.
> Photos Available.
>
> ???>>>Somebody just asked for a
> set--Guy Dellavecchia?? What kind are
> ???they?? Guy might want to trade his
> '71 two-slot wheels for some L-model
> ???wheels?
>
> ? ???>? ???I'd
> love a Triple Slot set. Anybody have some?
>
> ???>>>I have only ever seen two of
> them (separately) in my life.? These
> ???were an experimental wheel used on the
> first pushmobile prototype.? I
> ???have no idea how many were put into
> production but I've never seen any
> ???other car wearing them, so I would have to
> imagine the number is very
> ???small indeed.? Even 1006, the
> earliest known Pantera extant, had single
> ???slot wheels.
> ???So don't hold your breath waiting for a
> full set of three-slot wheels
> ???to appear. :>)
>
> ? ???>I will sort them this week by
> design, Thanks Mike Drew for the
> ? ???Campy
> ? ???>? ???Wheel
> education.
>
> ???>>>It's my pleasure, but at this
> point I'm far more concerned about
> ???your aftermarket wheels.? Simply put,
> I would never wish three-piece
> ???Hall wheels on my worst enemy, and
> especially not for track use.? We
> ???collectively know about multiple failures,
> which always led to rapid
> ???deflation and a potential accident.?
> Jack has often told of the car
> ???that was zorching down Mt. Charleston in
> Las Vegas at triple digit
> ???speeds one year when his Hall wheel
> dismantled himself; I believe it
> ???thrust the car into the scenery, but can't
> remember that aspect of the
> ???story for sure.? Jack?
> ???Larry Stock had a car on the grass at
> Concorso that he was trying to
> ???sell; a rear wheel simply blew apart while
> the car was parked (!) and
> ???he had to tow it back to Nevada as it
> couldn't be fixed--it had cracked
> ???halfway around.? The other three
> wheels had similar cracks when they
> ???were taken apart and inspected.
> ???And Mad Dog's fire was indirectly caused
> by the failure of his Hall
> ???wheel; when the left rear wheel failed,
> the car fell down onto the
> ???freeway in Los Angeles.? What wasn't
> seen was that during the collapse,
> ???the brake line was damaged.? MD
> swapped his stock wheels w/race tires
> ???on and ran the Silver State a day or two
> later, but when he stepped on
> ???the brakes at the finish line, the line
> ruptured, fluid sprayed onto
> ???the exhaust and the rest was history.
> ???And on and on and on...I'm sure there are
> many others.
> ???Those wheels were a very well-intentioned
> design but they were woefully
> ???under-engineered, and today should be
> related either to a display case,
> ???or a recycling bin IMHO....
> ???So tell me exactly what kind of wheels
> you're talking about here, as
> ???the Coddington wheels (which I have
> aesthetic problems with,
> ???admittedly) are nothing like these Hall
> wheels at all.
>
> ? ???>>?
> ???Just let a local guy soda blast two of
> them down to the green
> ? ???primer,
> ? ???>? ???I'll
> probably paint them Argent Silver and Clear them just to
> ? ???see the
> ? ???>? ???final
> results.
> ? ???>? ???Photo
> attached.
> ? ???>
>
> ???>>>Since I didn't get your
> original e-mail, I didn't get the photo
> ???either....
> ???Cheers!
> ???Mike
>
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [246]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [247]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address,
> unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 22:24:18 +0000 (UTC)
> From: marshall smith <[248]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
> To: <[249]davel at emspace.com>, <[250]detomaso at poca.com>,
> <[251]michael at michaelshortt.com>, <[252]MikeLDrew at aol.com>,
marshall smith
> <[253]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Campagnolo Wheels
> Message-ID:
>
<[254]1003982879.3795306.1452723858144.JavaMail.yahoo at mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Additionally....Hall's 10 spoke wheels have the spokes slanted
slightly
inboard or towards the suspension. I believe Wilkinson made a 10 spoke
wheel
where the spokes slant outward. These are visually better looking
giving a
semi dished look and have slightly rounded spokes where the Hall's have
sharp edged spokes.
>
> M
> --------------------------------------------
> On Wed, 1/13/16, marshall smith <[255]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Campagnolo Wheels
> To: [256]davel at emspace.com, [257]detomaso at poca.com,
[258]michael at michaelshortt.com,
[259]MikeLDrew at aol.com
> Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2016, 2:15 PM
>
> FYI....
>
> I have 17 inch Hall 10 spoke wheels. They have welded
> centers and came with a center hub that had a dummy spinner
> and cone that covered the lug nuts or you could delete the
> cone and go with exposed lug nuts.
> I was told that Boyd made these. Hall called them Mark 10s
> as I recall.
>
> Marshall
> --------------------------------------------
> On Wed, 1/13/16, Mike Drew via DeTomaso <[260]detomaso at poca.com>
> wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Campagnolo Wheels
> To: [261]davel at emspace.com,
> [262]detomaso at poca.com,
> [263]michael at michaelshortt.com
> Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2016, 12:19 PM
>
> ???In a message dated
> 1/10/16 21 39 38, [264]davel at emspace.com
> writes:
>
> ? ???My 17" Hall wheels are a lot
> heavier than the mags.
> ? ???I think that's fine for street, but
> aren't you concerned about the
> ? ???unsprung weight for track use?
> ? ???dave
>
> ???>>>Interesting.? This was
> apparently a reply to an original post by
> ???Michael Shortt, but that post never came
> through to me nor did it wind
> ???up in my spam folder?
> ???I'm noting some irregularities with the
> forum these days....anyway,
> ???thankfully Dave included Michael's
> original post, so see replies below:
>
> ? ???On 1/08/16 9:17 PM, Michael Shortt
> wrote:
> ? ???>?
> ???Greetings,
> ? ???>
> ? ???>? ???After
> gathering all my wheels in one place and a brief
> ? ???inventory today,
> ? ???>? ???I have
> 21 Campy wheels,
>
> ???>>>Uh...that's a lot. :>)
>
> ? ???>? ???5
> Single Slots and a mixture of the 4 Double Slots and Zero
> ? ???Triple
> ? ???>? ???Slots
> ( No 10") Plus 2 sets of 17" Boyd Coddington Wheels made
> ? ???for Hall
> ? ???>?
> ???Pantera.
>
> ???>>>Uh, I don't think Coddington
> every made wheels for Hall?? He did
> ???make them for several other vendors, in
> several different styles, some
> ???markedly better than others.? Can you
> share some images perhaps to help
> ???in identification?
> ???Hall did have somebody cast up ten-spoke
> Si-looking wheels that were
> ???welded together, and perhaps Coddington
> was the source for those?
>
> ? ???>>?
> ???And the 17" 10 spokes on the car now with
> 335/35 and 245/40.
>
> ???>>>What kind of wheels are
> those?? 10 spokes is a pretty vague
> ???descriiption--although I admit I'm pretty
> certain how many spokes they
> ???have at least. :>)
>
> ? ???>
> ? ???>? ???I am
> keeping the 10 spokes with PZeros for Street use,
> ? ???>? ???And
> one set of the 17" Hall Wheels with 315/235 Kumhos for
> ? ???Rally and
> ? ???>? ???Track
> use.
>
> ???>>>Wait--are you talking about
> Coddington Campagnolo clones, or Hall
> ???wheels which are three-piece,
> bolt-together affairs, with a fake center
> ???spinner?? Those are as different as
> chalk and cheese (with the latter
> ???being the only genuinely suspect/dangerous
> wheels I've ever
> ???encountered).
>
> ? ???>? ???I will
> be keeping the Single Slots for Concours with skinny
> ? ???Blackwalls
> ? ???>? ???and a
> set of Double Slots with Vintage Arrivas for Photos,
> ? ???With a spare
> ? ???>? ???Front
> and a Spare Rear in case of a boo boo.
>
> ???>>>Sounds good!
>
> ? ???>
> ? ???>>?
> ???That leaves 2 full sets of double slot
> wheels to dispose of.
> ? ???Sell or
> ? ???>? ???Trade.
> Photos Available.
>
> ???>>>Somebody just asked for a
> set--Guy Dellavecchia?? What kind are
> ???they?? Guy might want to trade his
> '71 two-slot wheels for some L-model
> ???wheels?
>
> ? ???>? ???I'd
> love a Triple Slot set. Anybody have some?
>
> ???>>>I have only ever seen two of
> them (separately) in my life.? These
> ???were an experimental wheel used on the
> first pushmobile prototype.? I
> ???have no idea how many were put into
> production but I've never seen any
> ???other car wearing them, so I would have to
> imagine the number is very
> ???small indeed.? Even 1006, the
> earliest known Pantera extant, had single
> ???slot wheels.
> ???So don't hold your breath waiting for a
> full set of three-slot wheels
> ???to appear. :>)
>
> ? ???>I will sort them this week by
> design, Thanks Mike Drew for the
> ? ???Campy
> ? ???>? ???Wheel
> education.
>
> ???>>>It's my pleasure, but at this
> point I'm far more concerned about
> ???your aftermarket wheels.? Simply put,
> I would never wish three-piece
> ???Hall wheels on my worst enemy, and
> especially not for track use.? We
> ???collectively know about multiple failures,
> which always led to rapid
> ???deflation and a potential accident.?
> Jack has often told of the car
> ???that was zorching down Mt. Charleston in
> Las Vegas at triple digit
> ???speeds one year when his Hall wheel
> dismantled himself; I believe it
> ???thrust the car into the scenery, but can't
> remember that aspect of the
> ???story for sure.? Jack?
> ???Larry Stock had a car on the grass at
> Concorso that he was trying to
> ???sell; a rear wheel simply blew apart while
> the car was parked (!) and
> ???he had to tow it back to Nevada as it
> couldn't be fixed--it had cracked
> ???halfway around.? The other three
> wheels had similar cracks when they
> ???were taken apart and inspected.
> ???And Mad Dog's fire was indirectly caused
> by the failure of his Hall
> ???wheel; when the left rear wheel failed,
> the car fell down onto the
> ???freeway in Los Angeles.? What wasn't
> seen was that during the collapse,
> ???the brake line was damaged.? MD
> swapped his stock wheels w/race tires
> ???on and ran the Silver State a day or two
> later, but when he stepped on
> ???the brakes at the finish line, the line
> ruptured, fluid sprayed onto
> ???the exhaust and the rest was history.
> ???And on and on and on...I'm sure there are
> many others.
> ???Those wheels were a very well-intentioned
> design but they were woefully
> ???under-engineered, and today should be
> related either to a display case,
> ???or a recycling bin IMHO....
> ???So tell me exactly what kind of wheels
> you're talking about here, as
> ???the Coddington wheels (which I have
> aesthetic problems with,
> ???admittedly) are nothing like these Hall
> wheels at all.
>
> ? ???>>?
> ???Just let a local guy soda blast two of
> them down to the green
> ? ???primer,
> ? ???>? ???I'll
> probably paint them Argent Silver and Clear them just to
> ? ???see the
> ? ???>? ???final
> results.
> ? ???>? ???Photo
> attached.
> ? ???>
>
> ???>>>Since I didn't get your
> original e-mail, I didn't get the photo
> ???either....
> ???Cheers!
> ???Mike
>
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
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> [265]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [266]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address,
> unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
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> [267]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [268]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address,
> unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 17
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 17:44:23 -0500
> From: Michael Shortt <[269]michaelsavga at gmail.com>
> To: marshall smith <[270]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>,
[271]detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Campagnolo Wheels
> Message-ID:
>
<[272]CAEWtxWoBoP_w8V4hEH2fJDsmEVnwB4ueWkX8rJqC7R-FWTFj0A at mail.gmail.co
m>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Marshall,
>
> I have those too, considered having them Powdercoated, but the center
> treatment would look silly. I have both the spinners and the big
black
> lugs. The other set is the 5 spoke from Hall/Boyd.
>
> Michael Shortt
> On Jan 13, 2016 5:15 PM, "marshall smith"
<[273]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
>
>> FYI....
>>
>> I have 17 inch Hall 10 spoke wheels. They have welded centers and
came
>> with a center hub that had a dummy spinner and cone that covered the
lug
>> nuts or you could delete the cone and go with exposed lug nuts.
>> I was told that Boyd made these. Hall called them Mark 10s as I
recall.
>>
>> Marshall
>> --------------------------------------------
>> On Wed, 1/13/16, Mike Drew via DeTomaso <[274]detomaso at poca.com>
wrote:
>>
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Campagnolo Wheels
>> To: [275]davel at emspace.com, [276]detomaso at poca.com,
[277]michael at michaelshortt.com
>> Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2016, 12:19 PM
>>
>> In a message dated
>> 1/10/16 21 39 38, [278]davel at emspace.com
>> writes:
>>
>> My 17" Hall wheels are a lot
>> heavier than the mags.
>> I think that's fine for street, but
>> aren't you concerned about the
>> unsprung weight for track use?
>> dave
>>
>>>>> Interesting. This was
>> apparently a reply to an original post by
>> Michael Shortt, but that post never came
>> through to me nor did it wind
>> up in my spam folder?
>> I'm noting some irregularities with the
>> forum these days....anyway,
>> thankfully Dave included Michael's
>> original post, so see replies below:
>>
>> On 1/08/16 9:17 PM, Michael Shortt
>> wrote:
>> Greetings,
>>>
>>> After
>> gathering all my wheels in one place and a brief
>> inventory today,
>>> I have
>> 21 Campy wheels,
>>
>>>>> Uh...that's a lot. :>)
>>
>>> 5
>> Single Slots and a mixture of the 4 Double Slots and Zero
>> Triple
>>> Slots
>> ( No 10") Plus 2 sets of 17" Boyd Coddington Wheels made
>> for Hall
>> Pantera.
>>
>>>>> Uh, I don't think Coddington
>> every made wheels for Hall? He did
>> make them for several other vendors, in
>> several different styles, some
>> markedly better than others. Can you
>> share some images perhaps to help
>> in identification?
>> Hall did have somebody cast up ten-spoke
>> Si-looking wheels that were
>> welded together, and perhaps Coddington
>> was the source for those?
>>
>> And the 17" 10 spokes on the car now with
>> 335/35 and 245/40.
>>
>>>>> What kind of wheels are
>> those? 10 spokes is a pretty vague
>> descriiption--although I admit I'm pretty
>> certain how many spokes they
>> have at least. :>)
>>
>>>
>>> I am
>> keeping the 10 spokes with PZeros for Street use,
>>> And
>> one set of the 17" Hall Wheels with 315/235 Kumhos for
>> Rally and
>>> Track
>> use.
>>
>>>>> Wait--are you talking about
>> Coddington Campagnolo clones, or Hall
>> wheels which are three-piece,
>> bolt-together affairs, with a fake center
>> spinner? Those are as different as
>> chalk and cheese (with the latter
>> being the only genuinely suspect/dangerous
>> wheels I've ever
>> encountered).
>>
>>> I will
>> be keeping the Single Slots for Concours with skinny
>> Blackwalls
>>> and a
>> set of Double Slots with Vintage Arrivas for Photos,
>> With a spare
>>> Front
>> and a Spare Rear in case of a boo boo.
>>
>>>>> Sounds good!
>>
>>>
>> That leaves 2 full sets of double slot
>> wheels to dispose of.
>> Sell or
>>> Trade.
>> Photos Available.
>>
>>>>> Somebody just asked for a
>> set--Guy Dellavecchia? What kind are
>> they? Guy might want to trade his
>> '71 two-slot wheels for some L-model
>> wheels?
>>
>>> I'd
>> love a Triple Slot set. Anybody have some?
>>
>>>>> I have only ever seen two of
>> them (separately) in my life. These
>> were an experimental wheel used on the
>> first pushmobile prototype. I
>> have no idea how many were put into
>> production but I've never seen any
>> other car wearing them, so I would have to
>> imagine the number is very
>> small indeed. Even 1006, the
>> earliest known Pantera extant, had single
>> slot wheels.
>> So don't hold your breath waiting for a
>> full set of three-slot wheels
>> to appear. :>)
>>
>>> I will sort them this week by
>> design, Thanks Mike Drew for the
>> Campy
>>> Wheel
>> education.
>>
>>>>> It's my pleasure, but at this
>> point I'm far more concerned about
>> your aftermarket wheels. Simply put,
>> I would never wish three-piece
>> Hall wheels on my worst enemy, and
>> especially not for track use. We
>> collectively know about multiple failures,
>> which always led to rapid
>> deflation and a potential accident.
>> Jack has often told of the car
>> that was zorching down Mt. Charleston in
>> Las Vegas at triple digit
>> speeds one year when his Hall wheel
>> dismantled himself; I believe it
>> thrust the car into the scenery, but can't
>> remember that aspect of the
>> story for sure. Jack?
>> Larry Stock had a car on the grass at
>> Concorso that he was trying to
>> sell; a rear wheel simply blew apart while
>> the car was parked (!) and
>> he had to tow it back to Nevada as it
>> couldn't be fixed--it had cracked
>> halfway around. The other three
>> wheels had similar cracks when they
>> were taken apart and inspected.
>> And Mad Dog's fire was indirectly caused
>> by the failure of his Hall
>> wheel; when the left rear wheel failed,
>> the car fell down onto the
>> freeway in Los Angeles. What wasn't
>> seen was that during the collapse,
>> the brake line was damaged. MD
>> swapped his stock wheels w/race tires
>> on and ran the Silver State a day or two
>> later, but when he stepped on
>> the brakes at the finish line, the line
>> ruptured, fluid sprayed onto
>> the exhaust and the rest was history.
>> And on and on and on...I'm sure there are
>> many others.
>> Those wheels were a very well-intentioned
>> design but they were woefully
>> under-engineered, and today should be
>> related either to a display case,
>> or a recycling bin IMHO....
>> So tell me exactly what kind of wheels
>> you're talking about here, as
>> the Coddington wheels (which I have
>> aesthetic problems with,
>> admittedly) are nothing like these Hall
>> wheels at all.
>>
>> Just let a local guy soda blast two of
>> them down to the green
>> primer,
>>> I'll
>> probably paint them Argent Silver and Clear them just to
>> see the
>>> final
>> results.
>>> Photo
>> attached.
>>
>>>>> Since I didn't get your
>> original e-mail, I didn't get the photo
>> either....
>> Cheers!
>> Mike
>>
>> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> [279]DeTomaso at poca.com
>> [280]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
>> To manage your subscription (change email address,
>> unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
> -------------- next part --------------
> Marshall,
>
> I have those too, considered having them Powdercoated, but the
center
> treatment would look silly. I have both the spinners and the big
black
> lugs. The other set is the 5 spoke from Hall/Boyd.
>
> Michael Shortt
>
> On Jan 13, 2016 5:15 PM, "marshall smith"
> <[1][281]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> FYI....
> I have 17 inch Hall 10 spoke wheels. They have welded centers and
> came with a center hub that had a dummy spinner and cone that
> covered the lug nuts or you could delete the cone and go with
> exposed lug nuts.
> I was told that Boyd made these. Hall called them Mark 10s as I
> recall.
> Marshall
> --------------------------------------------
> On Wed, 1/13/16, Mike Drew via DeTomaso
<[2][282]detomaso at poca.com>
> wrote:
> A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Campagnolo Wheels
> A To: [3][283]davel at emspace.com, [4][284]detomaso at poca.com,
> [5][285]michael at michaelshortt.com
> A Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2016, 12:19 PM
> A A A A In a message dated
> A 1/10/16 21 39 38, [6][286]davel at emspace.com
> A writes:
> A A A A A My 17" Hall wheels are a lot
> A heavier than the mags.
> A A A A A I think that's fine for street, but
> A aren't you concerned about the
> A A A A A unsprung weight for track use?
> A A A A A dave
> A A A A >>>Interesting.A This was
> A apparently a reply to an original post by
> A A A A Michael Shortt, but that post never came
> A through to me nor did it wind
> A A A A up in my spam folder?
> A A A A I'm noting some irregularities with the
> A forum these days....anyway,
> A A A A thankfully Dave included Michael's
> A original post, so see replies below:
> A A A A A On 1/08/16 9:17 PM, Michael Shortt
> A wrote:
> A A A A A >A
> A A A A Greetings,
> A A A A A >
> A A A A A >A A A A After
> A gathering all my wheels in one place and a brief
> A A A A A inventory today,
> A A A A A >A A A A I have
> A 21 Campy wheels,
> A A A A >>>Uh...that's a lot. :>)
> A A A A A >A A A A 5
> A Single Slots and a mixture of the 4 Double Slots and Zero
> A A A A A Triple
> A A A A A >A A A A Slots
> A ( No 10") Plus 2 sets of 17" Boyd Coddington Wheels made
> A A A A A for Hall
> A A A A A >A
> A A A A Pantera.
> A A A A >>>Uh, I don't think Coddington
> A every made wheels for Hall?A He did
> A A A A make them for several other vendors, in
> A several different styles, some
> A A A A markedly better than others.A Can you
> A share some images perhaps to help
> A A A A in identification?
> A A A A Hall did have somebody cast up ten-spoke
> A Si-looking wheels that were
> A A A A welded together, and perhaps Coddington
> A was the source for those?
> A A A A A >>A
> A A A A And the 17" 10 spokes on the car now with
> A 335/35 and 245/40.
> A A A A >>>What kind of wheels are
> A those?A 10 spokes is a pretty vague
> A A A A descriiption--although I admit I'm pretty
> A certain how many spokes they
> A A A A have at least. :>)
> A A A A A >
> A A A A A >A A A A I am
> A keeping the 10 spokes with PZeros for Street use,
> A A A A A >A A A A And
> A one set of the 17" Hall Wheels with 315/235 Kumhos for
> A A A A A Rally and
> A A A A A >A A A A Track
> A use.
> A A A A >>>Wait--are you talking about
> A Coddington Campagnolo clones, or Hall
> A A A A wheels which are three-piece,
> A bolt-together affairs, with a fake center
> A A A A spinner?A Those are as different as
> A chalk and cheese (with the latter
> A A A A being the only genuinely suspect/dangerous
> A wheels I've ever
> A A A A encountered).
> A A A A A >A A A A I will
> A be keeping the Single Slots for Concours with skinny
> A A A A A Blackwalls
> A A A A A >A A A A and a
> A set of Double Slots with Vintage Arrivas for Photos,
> A A A A A With a spare
> A A A A A >A A A A Front
> A and a Spare Rear in case of a boo boo.
> A A A A >>>Sounds good!
> A A A A A >
> A A A A A >>A
> A A A A That leaves 2 full sets of double slot
> A wheels to dispose of.
> A A A A A Sell or
> A A A A A >A A A A Trade.
> A Photos Available.
> A A A A >>>Somebody just asked for a
> A set--Guy Dellavecchia?A What kind are
> A A A A they?A Guy might want to trade his
> A '71 two-slot wheels for some L-model
> A A A A wheels?
> A A A A A >A A A A I'd
> A love a Triple Slot set. Anybody have some?
> A A A A >>>I have only ever seen two of
> A them (separately) in my life.A These
> A A A A were an experimental wheel used on the
> A first pushmobile prototype.A I
> A A A A have no idea how many were put into
> A production but I've never seen any
> A A A A other car wearing them, so I would have to
> A imagine the number is very
> A A A A small indeed.A Even 1006, the
> A earliest known Pantera extant, had single
> A A A A slot wheels.
> A A A A So don't hold your breath waiting for a
> A full set of three-slot wheels
> A A A A to appear. :>)
> A A A A A >I will sort them this week by
> A design, Thanks Mike Drew for the
> A A A A A Campy
> A A A A A >A A A A Wheel
> A education.
> A A A A >>>It's my pleasure, but at this
> A point I'm far more concerned about
> A A A A your aftermarket wheels.A Simply put,
> A I would never wish three-piece
> A A A A Hall wheels on my worst enemy, and
> A especially not for track use.A We
> A A A A collectively know about multiple failures,
> A which always led to rapid
> A A A A deflation and a potential accident.A
> A Jack has often told of the car
> A A A A that was zorching down Mt. Charleston in
> A Las Vegas at triple digit
> A A A A speeds one year when his Hall wheel
> A dismantled himself; I believe it
> A A A A thrust the car into the scenery, but can't
> A remember that aspect of the
> A A A A story for sure.A Jack?
> A A A A Larry Stock had a car on the grass at
> A Concorso that he was trying to
> A A A A sell; a rear wheel simply blew apart while
> A the car was parked (!) and
> A A A A he had to tow it back to Nevada as it
> A couldn't be fixed--it had cracked
> A A A A halfway around.A The other three
> A wheels had similar cracks when they
> A A A A were taken apart and inspected.
> A A A A And Mad Dog's fire was indirectly caused
> A by the failure of his Hall
> A A A A wheel; when the left rear wheel failed,
> A the car fell down onto the
> A A A A freeway in Los Angeles.A What wasn't
> A seen was that during the collapse,
> A A A A the brake line was damaged.A MD
> A swapped his stock wheels w/race tires
> A A A A on and ran the Silver State a day or two
> A later, but when he stepped on
> A A A A the brakes at the finish line, the line
> A ruptured, fluid sprayed onto
> A A A A the exhaust and the rest was history.
> A A A A And on and on and on...I'm sure there are
> A many others.
> A A A A Those wheels were a very well-intentioned
> A design but they were woefully
> A A A A under-engineered, and today should be
> A related either to a display case,
> A A A A or a recycling bin IMHO....
> A A A A So tell me exactly what kind of wheels
> A you're talking about here, as
> A A A A the Coddington wheels (which I have
> A aesthetic problems with,
> A A A A admittedly) are nothing like these Hall
> A wheels at all.
> A A A A A >>A
> A A A A Just let a local guy soda blast two of
> A them down to the green
> A A A A A primer,
> A A A A A >A A A A I'll
> A probably paint them Argent Silver and Clear them just to
> A A A A A see the
> A A A A A >A A A A final
> A results.
> A A A A A >A A A A Photo
> A attached.
> A A A A A >
> A A A A >>>Since I didn't get your
> A original e-mail, I didn't get the photo
> A A A A either....
> A A A A Cheers!
> A A A A Mike
> A -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
> A _______________________________________________
> A Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> A Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> A DeTomaso mailing list
> A [7][287]DeTomaso at poca.com
> A [8][288]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> A To manage your subscription (change email address,
> A unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:[289]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
> 2. mailto:[290]detomaso at poca.com
> 3. mailto:[291]davel at emspace.com
> 4. mailto:[292]detomaso at poca.com
> 5. mailto:[293]michael at michaelshortt.com
> 6. mailto:[294]davel at emspace.com
> 7. mailto:[295]DeTomaso at poca.com
> 8. [296]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 18
> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2016 03:51:32 +0000 (UTC)
> From: Ken Green <[297]kenn_green at yahoo.com>
> To: Tomas Gunnarsson <[298]guson at home.se>,
"[299]charlesmccall at gmail.com"
> <[300]charlesmccall at gmail.com>, Scott Bell
<[301]scott at saccrestorations.net>
> Cc: "[302]detomaso at poca.com" <[303]detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> Message-ID:
>
<[304]1037889853.5193710.1452743492663.JavaMail.yahoo at mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Scott at SACC ([305]http://www.saccrestorations.net/) was selling an
electric
parking brake actuator kit?for?Panteras.? I'm not sure if it is
currently
available, so you'd have to ask Scott.
> Ken
> ?
>
> From: Tomas Gunnarsson <[306]guson at home.se>
> To: [307]charlesmccall at gmail.com
> Cc: [308]detomaso at poca.com
> Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2016 2:02 PM
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
>
> ? It is more likely a linear actuator driven by a motor. A solenoid
would
> ? not be good as it would need to draw current for the whole time the
> ? brakes are on. You can probably hear the motor whine when you flip
the
> ? switch (or whatever) and then it goes silent when the brakes are
> ? on/off. Where there's legislation requiring a parking brake it's
> ? usually also a requirement that it's mechanically actuated,
hydraulics
> ? are not allowed.
>
> ? Tomas
> ? <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
> ? ? ? From: Charles McCall [[309]charlesmccall at gmail.com]
> ? Sent: 13/1/2016 10:53:34 PM
> ? To:
> ?
[310]MikeLDrew at aol.com;[311]guson at home.se;[312]gaino at earthlink.net;[313
]detomaso at poca.com
> ? Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> ? I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems work
by
> ? pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple
mechanical
> ? 'arm'
> ? that
> ? is pulling on a mechanical parking brake? Does anybody know that
for
> ? sure?
> ? ****Audis use a mechanical parking brake actuated by a solenoid -
the
> ? second
> ? case. They do not pressurize the fluid in the line. They have some
> ? electronics to ease the brake on if you are moving, but actuating
it at
> ? any
> ? speed locks up your brakes. They are either on or off.
> ? _______________________________________________
> ? Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> ? Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> ? DeTomaso mailing list
> ? [314]DeTomaso at poca.com
> ? [315]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> ? To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
etc.)
> ? use the links above.
> ? .
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [316]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [317]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
use
the links above.
>
>
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> Scott at SACC ([1][318]http://www.saccrestorations.net/) was selling
an
> electric parking brake actuator kit for Panteras. I'm not sure if
it
> is currently available, so you'd have to ask Scott.
> Ken
> __________________________________________________________________
>
> From: Tomas Gunnarsson <[319]guson at home.se>
> To: [320]charlesmccall at gmail.com
> Cc: [321]detomaso at poca.com
> Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2016 2:02 PM
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> It is more likely a linear actuator driven by a motor. A solenoid
> would
> not be good as it would need to draw current for the whole time
the
> brakes are on. You can probably hear the motor whine when you flip
> the
> switch (or whatever) and then it goes silent when the brakes are
> on/off. Where there's legislation requiring a parking brake it's
> usually also a requirement that it's mechanically actuated,
> hydraulics
> are not allowed.
> Tomas
> <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
> From: Charles McCall [[2][322]charlesmccall at gmail.com]
> Sent: 13/1/2016 10:53:34 PM
> To:
>
>
[3][323]MikeLDrew at aol.com;[4][324]guson at home.se;[5][325]gaino at earthlink
.net;[6]detomas
> [326]o at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems work
by
> pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple
> mechanical
> 'arm'
> that
> is pulling on a mechanical parking brake? Does anybody know that
for
> sure?
> ****Audis use a mechanical parking brake actuated by a solenoid -
the
> second
> case. They do not pressurize the fluid in the line. They have some
> electronics to ease the brake on if you are moving, but actuating
it
> at
> any
> speed locks up your brakes. They are either on or off.
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [7][327]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [8][328]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
etc.)
> use the links above.
> .
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [9][329]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [10][330]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
etc.)
> use the links above.
>
> References
>
> 1. [331]http://www.saccrestorations.net/
> 2. mailto:[332]charlesmccall at gmail.com
> 3. mailto:[333]MikeLDrew at aol.com
> 4. mailto:[334]guson at home.se
> 5. mailto:[335]gaino at earthlink.net
> 6. mailto:[336]detomaso at poca.com
> 7. mailto:[337]DeTomaso at poca.com
> 8. [338]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 9. mailto:[339]DeTomaso at poca.com
> 10. [340]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 19
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 20:19:16 -0800
> From: "Scott Bell" <[341]scott at saccrestorations.net>
> To: "'Ken Green'" <[342]kenn_green at yahoo.com>
> Cc: <[343]detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> Message-ID:
<[344]013501d14e82$bc2e21f0$348a65d0$@saccrestorations.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Yes, the E-Stopp Electronic Parking Brake Kit is back and available
to use
with the stock Pantera rear Calipers or with any aftermarket parking
brake
caliper. I will add them back to our website later this week.
>
> We offer the kit as it is sold from E-Stopp. The do-it-yourselfer can
fab
the brackets needed to mount it in the Pantera. OR, we offer an
installation
kit that makes the unit a bolt on upgrade.
>
> Interestingly, before I had the E-Stopp installed in my Pantera, I
almost
never set my parking brake. Not sure why, maybe because I didn?t like
how
awkward the stock unit was to operate. For the stock unit to work it
really
needs to be set with a bit or force. Then, to release, I needed to use
both
hands. After installing the Electronic unit, I set the parking brake
every
time I park the car.
>
> In addition to the Electronic Actuator, SACC Restorations is coming
out
with a new Parking Brake Caliper Kit that will be a bolt on unit custom
fitted specifically for the Pantera. This will give owners an
opportunity to
upgrade to a great looking, light weight and affordable parking brake
solution. More to come on the new product in the next few weeks!
>
> Scott
>
> From: Ken Green [mailto:[345]kenn_green at yahoo.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2016 7:52 PM
> To: Tomas Gunnarsson; [346]charlesmccall at gmail.com; Scott Bell
> Cc: [347]detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
>
> Scott at SACC ([348]http://www.saccrestorations.net/) was selling an
electric
parking brake actuator kit for Panteras. I'm not sure if it is
currently
available, so you'd have to ask Scott.
>
> Ken
>
>
> _____
>
> From: Tomas Gunnarsson <[349]guson at home.se>
> To: [350]charlesmccall at gmail.com
> Cc: [351]detomaso at poca.com
> Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2016 2:02 PM
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
>
> It is more likely a linear actuator driven by a motor. A solenoid
would
> not be good as it would need to draw current for the whole time the
> brakes are on. You can probably hear the motor whine when you flip
the
> switch (or whatever) and then it goes silent when the brakes are
> on/off. Where there's legislation requiring a parking brake it's
> usually also a requirement that it's mechanically actuated,
hydraulics
> are not allowed.
>
> Tomas
> <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
> From: Charles McCall [[352]charlesmccall at gmail.com]
> Sent: 13/1/2016 10:53:34 PM
> To:
>
[353]MikeLDrew at aol.com;[354]guson at home.se;[355]gaino at earthlink.net;[356
]detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems work by
> pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple
mechanical
> 'arm'
> that
> is pulling on a mechanical parking brake? Does anybody know that for
> sure?
> ****Audis use a mechanical parking brake actuated by a solenoid -
the
> second
> case. They do not pressurize the fluid in the line. They have some
> electronics to ease the brake on if you are moving, but actuating it
at
> any
> speed locks up your brakes. They are either on or off.
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [357]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [358]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
etc.)
> use the links above.
> .
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [359]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [360]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
use
the links above.
>
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> Yes, the E-Stopp Electronic Parking Brake Kit is back and available
to
> use with the stock Pantera rear Calipers or with any aftermarket
> parking brake caliper. I will add them back to our website later
this
> week.
>
>
> We offer the kit as it is sold from E-Stopp. The do-it-yourselfer
can
> fab the brackets needed to mount it in the Pantera. OR, we offer an
> installation kit that makes the unit a bolt on upgrade.
>
>
> Interestingly, before I had the E-Stopp installed in my Pantera, I
> almost never set my parking brake. Not sure why, maybe because I
didn't
> like how awkward the stock unit was to operate. For the stock unit
to
> work it really needs to be set with a bit or force. Then, to
release, I
> needed to use both hands. After installing the Electronic unit, I
set
> the parking brake every time I park the car.
>
>
> In addition to the Electronic Actuator, SACC Restorations is coming
out
> with a new Parking Brake Caliper Kit that will be a bolt on unit
custom
> fitted specifically for the Pantera. This will give owners an
> opportunity to upgrade to a great looking, light weight and
affordable
> parking brake solution. More to come on the new product in the next
few
> weeks!
>
>
> Scott
>
>
> From: Ken Green [mailto:[361]kenn_green at yahoo.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2016 7:52 PM
> To: Tomas Gunnarsson; [362]charlesmccall at gmail.com; Scott Bell
> Cc: [363]detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
>
>
> Scott at SACC ([1][364]http://www.saccrestorations.net/) was selling
an
> electric parking brake actuator kit for Panteras. I'm not sure if
it
> is currently available, so you'd have to ask Scott.
>
>
> Ken
>
>
_______________________________________________________________________
>
> From: Tomas Gunnarsson <[2][365]guson at home.se>
> To: [3][366]charlesmccall at gmail.com
> Cc: [4][367]detomaso at poca.com
> Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2016 2:02 PM
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
>
> It is more likely a linear actuator driven by a motor. A solenoid
> would
> not be good as it would need to draw current for the whole time
the
> brakes are on. You can probably hear the motor whine when you flip
> the
> switch (or whatever) and then it goes silent when the brakes are
> on/off. Where there's legislation requiring a parking brake it's
> usually also a requirement that it's mechanically actuated,
> hydraulics
> are not allowed.
> Tomas
> <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
> From: Charles McCall [[5][368]charlesmccall at gmail.com]
> Sent: 13/1/2016 10:53:34 PM
> To:
>
>
[6][369]MikeLDrew at aol.com;[7][370]guson at home.se;[8][371]gaino at earthlink
.net;[9]detomas
> [372]o at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems work
by
> pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple
> mechanical
> 'arm'
> that
> is pulling on a mechanical parking brake? Does anybody know that
for
> sure?
> ****Audis use a mechanical parking brake actuated by a solenoid -
the
> second
> case. They do not pressurize the fluid in the line. They have some
> electronics to ease the brake on if you are moving, but actuating
it
> at
> any
> speed locks up your brakes. They are either on or off.
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [10][373]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [11][374]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
etc.)
> use the links above.
> .
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [12][375]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [13][376]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
etc.)
> use the links above.
>
> References
>
> 1. [377]http://www.saccrestorations.net/
> 2. mailto:[378]guson at home.se
> 3. mailto:[379]charlesmccall at gmail.com
> 4. mailto:[380]detomaso at poca.com
> 5. mailto:[381]charlesmccall at gmail.com
> 6. mailto:[382]MikeLDrew at aol.com
> 7. mailto:[383]guson at home.se
> 8. mailto:[384]gaino at earthlink.net
> 9. mailto:[385]detomaso at poca.com
> 10. mailto:[386]DeTomaso at poca.com
> 11. [387]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 12. mailto:[388]DeTomaso at poca.com
> 13. [389]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 20
> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2016 16:50:07 +0000 (UTC)
> From: B Hower <[390]b.hower3400 at yahoo.com>
> To: De Tomaso List <[391]detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: [DeTomaso] NPC 91 Merc parts
> Message-ID:
>
<[392]749672874.510825.1452790207343.JavaMail.yahoo at mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi all,
> I am scrapping a 91 Merc Marque. If anyone would happen to need any
parts
from same,,,,contact me off forum.
> ?Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow -- for there may not
be !
)
> -------------- next part --------------
> Hi all,
> I am scrapping a 91 Merc Marque. If anyone would happen to need any
> parts from same,,,,contact me off forum.
>
> Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow -- for there may not
be
> ! )
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 21
> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2016 12:26:12 -0500
> From: Rob Dumoulin <[393]rob at dumoulins.net>
> To: Pantera - DeTomaso Mail List <[394]DeTomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: [DeTomaso] NPC 2000 BMW 740i Sport for whole or parts
> Message-ID:
>
<CAEr4y_vxSUkwzguCsUO6EJwL3z5uDV7+[395]GGdEiL6YXMPoB4H1jw at mail.gmail.co
m>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Following Bud's lead,
>
> The finest road car I have ever owned is being put out to pasture in
> Northwest Florida. I've got a 2000 BMW 740i Sport (M body, M rims, M
> transmission, and M suspension package, but a regular M62 4.4 V8)
that I
> have dropped off at my mechanic and advised him I would split any
profit
he
> makes from it. He is making it pretty to sell. Catch it quick
before he
> sinks money into it for a better deal.
>
> Buy it whole, or make it worth our time in parts. Contact me off
list if
> you want to know what it needs mechanically to be right again.
>
> Rob
> 904.476.8744
> -------------- next part --------------
> Following Bud's lead,
> The finest road car I have ever owned is being put out to pasture in
> Northwest Florida.A I've got a 2000 BMW 740i Sport (M body, M rims,
M
> transmission, and M suspension package, but a regular M62 4.4 V8)
that
> I have dropped off at my mechanic and advised him I would split any
> profit he makes from it.A He is making it pretty to sell.A Catch
it
> quick before he sinks money into it for a better deal.
> Buy it whole, or make it worth our time in parts.A Contact me off
list
> if you want to know what it needs mechanically to be right again.
> Rob
> 904.476.8744
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 22
> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2016 12:35:44 -0500
> From: "Mirril M. McMullen" <[396]mirrilm at earthlink.net>
> To: "'Rob Dumoulin'" <[397]rob at dumoulins.net>
> Cc: "'Pantera - DeTomaso Mail List'" <[398]DeTomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC 2000 BMW 740i Sport for whole or parts
> Message-ID: <[399]009b01d14ef1$ff563660$fe02a320$@earthlink.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Hmmm,
>
> Let me guess, cam chains eating the timing cover?
>
> /\/\///
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso [mailto:[400]detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of
Rob
Dumoulin
> Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 12:26 PM
> To: Pantera - DeTomaso Mail List
> Subject: [DeTomaso] NPC 2000 BMW 740i Sport for whole or parts
>
> Following Bud's lead,
>
> The finest road car I have ever owned is being put out to pasture in
Northwest Florida. I've got a 2000 BMW 740i Sport (M body, M rims, M
transmission, and M suspension package, but a regular M62 4.4 V8) that
I
have dropped off at my mechanic and advised him I would split any
profit he
makes from it. He is making it pretty to sell. Catch it quick before
he
sinks money into it for a better deal.
>
> Buy it whole, or make it worth our time in parts. Contact me off
list if
you want to know what it needs mechanically to be right again.
>
> Rob
> 904.476.8744
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 23
> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2016 12:55:15 -0500
> From: Rob Dumoulin <[401]rob at dumoulins.net>
> To: Mirril McMullen <[402]mirrilm at earthlink.net>
> Cc: Pantera - DeTomaso Mail List <[403]DeTomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC 2000 BMW 740i Sport for whole or parts
> Message-ID:
>
<[404]CAEr4y_tsVfHd1sESiSVDnm-VZD7x5PkuiCm2OTmAZ1mJ7ZkmCw at mail.gmail.co
m>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Not at all. Cam chain, tensioner, waterpump all changed a few years
ago.
> Also, new fan clutch, radiator, belts, and other stuff. Always got
> synthetic oil changes regular.
>
> 240K miles and a transmission that will not go into reverse when
engine is
> hot was the kicker. That and the interior is showing age.
>
> Needs two new coil packs and possibly a VANOS sensor but still glides
down
> the road.
>
> Rob DuMoulin
> 904.476.8744
> [405]rob at dumoulins.net
> [406]www.kbsi.co
> [407]http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
>
> On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 12:35 PM, Mirril M. McMullen
<[408]mirrilm at earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Hmmm,
>>
>> Let me guess, cam chains eating the timing cover?
>>
>> /\/\///
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: DeTomaso [mailto:[409]detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of
Rob
>> Dumoulin
>> Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 12:26 PM
>> To: Pantera - DeTomaso Mail List
>> Subject: [DeTomaso] NPC 2000 BMW 740i Sport for whole or parts
>>
>> Following Bud's lead,
>>
>> The finest road car I have ever owned is being put out to pasture in
>> Northwest Florida. I've got a 2000 BMW 740i Sport (M body, M rims,
M
>> transmission, and M suspension package, but a regular M62 4.4 V8)
that I
>> have dropped off at my mechanic and advised him I would split any
profit
he
>> makes from it. He is making it pretty to sell. Catch it quick
before he
>> sinks money into it for a better deal.
>>
>> Buy it whole, or make it worth our time in parts. Contact me off
list if
>> you want to know what it needs mechanically to be right again.
>>
>> Rob
>> 904.476.8744
> -------------- next part --------------
> Not at all.A Cam chain, tensioner, waterpump all changed a few
years
> ago. A
> Also, new fan clutch, radiator, belts, and other stuff.A Always got
> synthetic oil changes regular.
> 240K miles and a transmission that will not go into reverse when
engine
> is hot was the kicker.A That and the interior is showing age.A
> Needs two new coil packs and possibly a VANOS sensor but still
glides
> down the road.
>
> Rob DuMoulin
> 904.476.8744
> [1][410]rob at dumoulins.net
> [2][411]www.kbsi.co
> [3][412]http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
> On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 12:35 PM, Mirril M. McMullen
> <[4][413]mirrilm at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> Hmmm,
> Let me guess, cam chains eating the timing cover?
> /\/\///
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso [mailto:[5][414]detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf
Of Rob
> Dumoulin
> Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 12:26 PM
> To: Pantera - DeTomaso Mail List
> Subject: [DeTomaso] NPC 2000 BMW 740i Sport for whole or parts
> Following Bud's lead,
> The finest road car I have ever owned is being put out to pasture in
> Northwest Florida.A I've got a 2000 BMW 740i Sport (M body, M rims,
M
> transmission, and M suspension package, but a regular M62 4.4 V8)
that
> I have dropped off at my mechanic and advised him I would split any
> profit he makes from it.A He is making it pretty to sell.A Catch
it
> quick before he sinks money into it for a better deal.
> Buy it whole, or make it worth our time in parts.A Contact me off
list
> if you want to know what it needs mechanically to be right again.
> Rob
> 904.476.8744
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:[415]rob at dumoulins.net
> 2. [416]http://www.kbsi.co/
> 3. [417]http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
> 4. mailto:[418]mirrilm at earthlink.net
> 5. mailto:[419]detomaso-bounces at poca.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 24
> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2016 12:56:57 -0500
> From: Rob Dumoulin <[420]rob at dumoulins.net>
> To: Mirril McMullen <[421]mirrilm at earthlink.net>
> Cc: Pantera - DeTomaso Mail List <[422]DeTomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC 2000 BMW 740i Sport for whole or parts
> Message-ID:
>
<CAEr4y_ubKH1kTNF61wqfS+TpW+q2OPZuP=uwOjq5Y=[423]FhZt-Apw at mail.gmail.co
m>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Forgot to add....I have 6 cars. I do not need 6 cars.
>
> Rob DuMoulin
> 904.476.8744
> [424]rob at dumoulins.net
> [425]www.kbsi.co
> [426]http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
>
>> On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 12:55 PM, Rob Dumoulin
<[427]rob at dumoulins.net> wrote:
>>
>> Not at all. Cam chain, tensioner, waterpump all changed a few years
ago.
>> Also, new fan clutch, radiator, belts, and other stuff. Always got
>> synthetic oil changes regular.
>>
>> 240K miles and a transmission that will not go into reverse when
engine
is
>> hot was the kicker. That and the interior is showing age.
>>
>> Needs two new coil packs and possibly a VANOS sensor but still
glides
down
>> the road.
>>
>> Rob DuMoulin
>> 904.476.8744
>> [428]rob at dumoulins.net
>> [429]www.kbsi.co
>> [430]http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 12:35 PM, Mirril M. McMullen <
>> [431]mirrilm at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Hmmm,
>>>
>>> Let me guess, cam chains eating the timing cover?
>>>
>>> /\/\///
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: DeTomaso [mailto:[432]detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of
Rob
>>> Dumoulin
>>> Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 12:26 PM
>>> To: Pantera - DeTomaso Mail List
>>> Subject: [DeTomaso] NPC 2000 BMW 740i Sport for whole or parts
>>>
>>> Following Bud's lead,
>>>
>>> The finest road car I have ever owned is being put out to pasture
in
>>> Northwest Florida. I've got a 2000 BMW 740i Sport (M body, M rims,
M
>>> transmission, and M suspension package, but a regular M62 4.4 V8)
that I
>>> have dropped off at my mechanic and advised him I would split any
profit
he
>>> makes from it. He is making it pretty to sell. Catch it quick
before
he
>>> sinks money into it for a better deal.
>>>
>>> Buy it whole, or make it worth our time in parts. Contact me off
list
if
>>> you want to know what it needs mechanically to be right again.
>>>
>>> Rob
>>> 904.476.8744
> -------------- next part --------------
> Forgot to add....I have 6 cars.A I do not need 6 cars.
>
> Rob DuMoulin
> 904.476.8744
> [1][433]rob at dumoulins.net
> [2][434]www.kbsi.co
> [3][435]http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
> On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 12:55 PM, Rob Dumoulin
<[4][436]rob at dumoulins.net>
> wrote:
>
> Not at all.A Cam chain, tensioner, waterpump all changed a few
years
> ago. A
> Also, new fan clutch, radiator, belts, and other stuff.A Always got
> synthetic oil changes regular.
> 240K miles and a transmission that will not go into reverse when
engine
> is hot was the kicker.A That and the interior is showing age.A
> Needs two new coil packs and possibly a VANOS sensor but still
glides
> down the road.
>
> Rob DuMoulin
> [5]904.476.8744
> [6][437]rob at dumoulins.net
> [7][438]www.kbsi.co
> [8][439]http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
> On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 12:35 PM, Mirril M. McMullen
> <[9][440]mirrilm at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> Hmmm,
> Let me guess, cam chains eating the timing cover?
> /\/\///
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso [mailto:[10][441]detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf
Of Rob
> Dumoulin
> Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 12:26 PM
> To: Pantera - DeTomaso Mail List
> Subject: [DeTomaso] NPC 2000 BMW 740i Sport for whole or parts
> Following Bud's lead,
> The finest road car I have ever owned is being put out to pasture in
> Northwest Florida.A I've got a 2000 BMW 740i Sport (M body, M rims,
M
> transmission, and M suspension package, but a regular M62 4.4 V8)
that
> I have dropped off at my mechanic and advised him I would split any
> profit he makes from it.A He is making it pretty to sell.A Catch
it
> quick before he sinks money into it for a better deal.
> Buy it whole, or make it worth our time in parts.A Contact me off
list
> if you want to know what it needs mechanically to be right again.
> Rob
> [11]904.476.8744
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:[442]rob at dumoulins.net
> 2. [443]http://www.kbsi.co/
> 3. [444]http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
> 4. mailto:[445]rob at dumoulins.net
> 5. [446]tel:904.476.8744
> 6. mailto:[447]rob at dumoulins.net
> 7. [448]http://www.kbsi.co/
> 8. [449]http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
> 9. mailto:[450]mirrilm at earthlink.net
> 10. mailto:[451]detomaso-bounces at poca.com
> 11. [452]tel:904.476.8744
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 25
> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2016 18:08:58 +0000 (UTC)
> From: marshall smith <[453]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
> To: 'Tomas Gunnarsson' <[454]guson at home.se>,
<[455]gaino at earthlink.net>,
> Stephen <[456]steve at snclocks.com>
> Cc: <[457]detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> Message-ID:
>
<[458]819779826.4191306.1452794938797.JavaMail.yahoo at mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Yikes....I could never trust my E brake on 'this' hill!
> --------------------------------------------
> On Wed, 1/13/16, Stephen <[459]steve at snclocks.com> wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> To: "'Tomas Gunnarsson'" <[460]guson at home.se>,
[461]gaino at earthlink.net
> Cc: [462]detomaso at poca.com
> Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2016, 8:21 AM
>
> ???Whilst `inelegant',
> at least the stock system works well.? I installed
> ???Wildwoods on the front of the discs and
> kept the originals on the
> ???back.? I did have the originals
> coated black - heck, doesn't look that
> ???bad.
>
>
> ???Stephen Nelson
>
>
> ???-----Original Message-----
> ???From: DeTomaso [mailto:[463]detomaso-bounces at poca.com]
> On Behalf Of Tomas
> ???Gunnarsson
> ???Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2016 8:03 AM
> ???To: [464]gaino at earthlink.net
> ???Cc: [465]detomaso at poca.com
> ???Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
>
>
> ???That's simply not a good solution. Doesn't
> work as an emergency brake
> ???and parking brake function is dubious. If
> you park your car with the
> ???brakes hot they may release when they cool
> off.
>
> ???Tomas
>
>
> ???<-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
>
>
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
> ???From: bill gaino [[466]gaino at earthlink.net]
>
> ???Sent: 13/1/2016 4:52:29 PM
>
> ???To: [1][467]detomaso at poca.com
>
> ???Subject: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
>
>
> ???Is anybody using a solinoid based parking
> brake? Something that that
> ???blocks fluid in the brake lines to hold
> calipers pressed against the
> ???rotors. My customer does not want the
> extra set of E brake calipers..
>
> ???like IPSCO offers. Bill 1362
>
>
>
>
???[2][468]https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634
?ref=ts&
> ???fref
>
> ???=ts
>
> ???If you want it slick.
> [3][469]www.slickpaint.com like us on facebook
>
>
> ???_______________________________________________
>
>
> ???Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> ???Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
> Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list
> ???[4][470]DeTomaso at poca.com
> ???[5][471]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
> ???To manage your subscription (change email
> address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> ???use the links above.
>
> ???.
>
> References
>
> ???1. mailto:[472]detomaso at poca.com
> ???2.
[473]https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref=t
s&fref
> ???3. [474]http://www.slickpaint.com/
> ???4. mailto:[475]DeTomaso at poca.com
> ???5. [476]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
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>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
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> DeTomaso mailing list
> [477]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [478]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address,
> unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [479]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [480]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of DeTomaso Digest, Vol 139, Issue 16
> *****************************************
_______________________________________________
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To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
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References
1. mailto:cengles at cox.net
2. mailto:ace595 at hotmail.com
3. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
4. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
5. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
6. mailto:detomaso-request at poca.com
7. mailto:detomaso-request at poca.com
8. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
9. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
10. mailto:detomaso-request at poca.com
11. mailto:detomaso-owner at poca.com
12. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
13. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
14. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
15. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
16. mailto:guson at home.se
17. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
18. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
19. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
20. mailto:46D238640B764EE3A581C2544BE74A80 at mail2world.com
21. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
22. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
23. mailto:guson at home.se
24. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
25. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
26. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
27. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
28. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
29. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
30. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
31. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
32. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
33. https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref=ts&fref
34. https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref=ts&fre
35. http://www.slickpaint.com/
36. http://www.slickpaint.com/
37. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
38. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
39. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
40. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
41. https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref=ts&fref
42. http://www.slickpaint.com/
43. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
44. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
45. mailto:guson at home.se
46. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
47. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
48. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
49. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
50. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
51. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
52. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
53. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
54. https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref=ts&
55. http://www.slickpaint.com/
56. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
57. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
58. https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref=ts&fref=ts
59. http://www.slickpaint.com/
60. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
61. https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref=ts&fref
62. http://www.slickpaint.com/
63. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
64. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
65. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
66. mailto:guson at home.se
67. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
68. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
69. mailto:72fdba.12644e17.43c804d9 at aol.com
70. mailto:guson at home.se
71. mailto:guson at home.se
72. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
73. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
74. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
75. mailto:guson at home.se
76. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
77. mailto:72fdc9.23690f23.43c804dd at aol.com
78. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
79. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
80. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
81. mailto:guson at home.se
82. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
83. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
84. mailto:72fddd.5edc2feb.43c804e3 at aol.com
85. mailto:guson at home.se
86. mailto:guson at home.se
87. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
88. mailto:davel at emspace.com
89. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
90. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
91. mailto:73161a.56810af3.43c80b47 at aol.com
92. mailto:davel at emspace.com
93. mailto:davel at emspace.com
94. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
95. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
96. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
97. mailto:guson at home.se
98. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
99. mailto:00d501d14e40$54625920$fd270b60$@snclocks.com
100. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
101. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
102. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
103. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
104. mailto:guson at home.se
105. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
106. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
107. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
108. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
109. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
110. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
111. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
112. mailto:guson at home.se
113. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
114. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
115. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
116. mailto:tipo874a at msn.com
117. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
118. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
119. mailto:guson at home.se
120. mailto:guson at home.se
121. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
122. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
123. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
124. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
125. mailto:BLUPR19MB0163500785FD9792060E49A29DCB0 at BLUPR19MB0163.namprd19.prod.outlook.
126. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
127. mailto:guson at home.se
128. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
129. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
130. mailto:michaelsavga at gmail.com
131. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
132. mailto:davel at emspace.com
133. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
134. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
135. mailto:Di5Q at mail.gmail.com
136. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
137. mailto:davel at emspace.com
138. http://www.michaelshortt.com/
139. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
140. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
141. mailto:davel at emspace.com
142. http://www.michaelshortt.com/
143. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
144. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
145. mailto:davel at emspace.com
146. http://www.michaelshortt.com/
147. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
148. mailto:guson at home.se
149. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
150. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
151. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
152. mailto:F6F0EDD7F26440B0970C3CD2C70F6033 at mail2world.com
153. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
154. mailto:guson at home.se
155. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
156. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
157. mailto:guson at home.se
158. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
159. mailto:guson at home.se
160. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
161. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
162. mailto:guson at home.se
163. mailto:larrys at panteraparts.com
164. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
165. mailto:davel at emspace.com
166. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
167. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
168. mailto:larrys at panteraparts.com
169. mailto:Larrys at PanteraParts.com
170. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
171. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
172. mailto:davel at emspace.com
173. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
174. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
175. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
176. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
177. mailto:guson at home.se
178. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
179. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
180. mailto:00fd01d14e4c$dac3a170$904ae450$@gmail.com
181. mailto:guson at home.se
182. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
183. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
184. mailto:72F2415F8F0A41A0BC5857747006BB5D at mail2world.com
185. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
186. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
187. mailto:guson at home.se
188. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
189. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
190. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
191. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
192. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
193. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
194. mailto:guson at home.se
195. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
196. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
197. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
198. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
199. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
200. mailto:guson at home.se
201. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
202. mailto:010701d14e4e$5fc90440$1f5b0cc0$@gmail.com
203. mailto:guson at home.se
204. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
205. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
206. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
207. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
208. mailto:guson at home.se
209. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
210. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
211. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
212. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
213. mailto:guson at home.se
214. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
215. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
216. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
217. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
218. mailto:guson at home.se
219. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
220. mailto:detomaso at poca.co
221. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
222. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
223. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
224. mailto:guson at home.se
225. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
226. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
227. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
228. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
229. mailto:thomas at hax.se
230. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
231. mailto:5696CB22.5070902 at hax.se
232. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
233. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
234. mailto:thomas at hax.se
235. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
236. mailto:davel at emspace.com
237. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
238. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
239. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
240. mailto:621399975.3851038.1452723316243.JavaMail.yahoo at mail.yahoo.com
241. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
242. mailto:davel at emspace.com
243. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
244. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
245. mailto:davel at emspace.com
246. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
247. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
248. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
249. mailto:davel at emspace.com
250. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
251. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
252. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
253. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
254. mailto:1003982879.3795306.1452723858144.JavaMail.yahoo at mail.yahoo.com
255. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
256. mailto:davel at emspace.com
257. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
258. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
259. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
260. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
261. mailto:davel at emspace.com
262. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
263. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
264. mailto:davel at emspace.com
265. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
266. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
267. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
268. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
269. mailto:michaelsavga at gmail.com
270. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
271. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
272. mailto:CAEWtxWoBoP_w8V4hEH2fJDsmEVnwB4ueWkX8rJqC7R-FWTFj0A at mail.gmail.com
273. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
274. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
275. mailto:davel at emspace.com
276. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
277. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
278. mailto:davel at emspace.com
279. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
280. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
281. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
282. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
283. mailto:davel at emspace.com
284. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
285. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
286. mailto:davel at emspace.com
287. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
288. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
289. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
290. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
291. mailto:davel at emspace.com
292. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
293. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
294. mailto:davel at emspace.com
295. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
296. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
297. mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com
298. mailto:guson at home.se
299. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
300. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
301. mailto:scott at saccrestorations.net
302. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
303. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
304. mailto:1037889853.5193710.1452743492663.JavaMail.yahoo at mail.yahoo.com
305. http://www.saccrestorations.net/
306. mailto:guson at home.se
307. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
308. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
309. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
310. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
311. mailto:guson at home.se
312. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
313. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
314. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
315. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
316. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
317. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
318. http://www.saccrestorations.net/
319. mailto:guson at home.se
320. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
321. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
322. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
323. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
324. mailto:guson at home.se
325. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
326. mailto:o at poca.com
327. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
328. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
329. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
330. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
331. http://www.saccrestorations.net/
332. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
333. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
334. mailto:guson at home.se
335. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
336. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
337. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
338. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
339. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
340. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
341. mailto:scott at saccrestorations.net
342. mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com
343. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
344. mailto:013501d14e82$bc2e21f0$348a65d0$@saccrestorations.net
345. mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com
346. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
347. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
348. http://www.saccrestorations.net/
349. mailto:guson at home.se
350. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
351. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
352. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
353. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
354. mailto:guson at home.se
355. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
356. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
357. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
358. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
359. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
360. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
361. mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com
362. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
363. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
364. http://www.saccrestorations.net/
365. mailto:guson at home.se
366. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
367. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
368. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
369. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
370. mailto:guson at home.se
371. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
372. mailto:o at poca.com
373. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
374. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
375. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
376. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
377. http://www.saccrestorations.net/
378. mailto:guson at home.se
379. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
380. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
381. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
382. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
383. mailto:guson at home.se
384. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
385. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
386. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
387. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
388. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
389. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
390. mailto:b.hower3400 at yahoo.com
391. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
392. mailto:749672874.510825.1452790207343.JavaMail.yahoo at mail.yahoo.com
393. mailto:rob at dumoulins.net
394. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
395. mailto:GGdEiL6YXMPoB4H1jw at mail.gmail.com
396. mailto:mirrilm at earthlink.net
397. mailto:rob at dumoulins.net
398. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
399. mailto:009b01d14ef1$ff563660$fe02a320$@earthlink.net
400. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
401. mailto:rob at dumoulins.net
402. mailto:mirrilm at earthlink.net
403. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
404. mailto:CAEr4y_tsVfHd1sESiSVDnm-VZD7x5PkuiCm2OTmAZ1mJ7ZkmCw at mail.gmail.com
405. mailto:rob at dumoulins.net
406. http://www.kbsi.co/
407. http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
408. mailto:mirrilm at earthlink.net
409. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
410. mailto:rob at dumoulins.net
411. http://www.kbsi.co/
412. http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
413. mailto:mirrilm at earthlink.net
414. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
415. mailto:rob at dumoulins.net
416. http://www.kbsi.co/
417. http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
418. mailto:mirrilm at earthlink.net
419. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
420. mailto:rob at dumoulins.net
421. mailto:mirrilm at earthlink.net
422. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
423. mailto:FhZt-Apw at mail.gmail.com
424. mailto:rob at dumoulins.net
425. http://www.kbsi.co/
426. http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
427. mailto:rob at dumoulins.net
428. mailto:rob at dumoulins.net
429. http://www.kbsi.co/
430. http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
431. mailto:mirrilm at earthlink.net
432. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
433. mailto:rob at dumoulins.net
434. http://www.kbsi.co/
435. http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
436. mailto:rob at dumoulins.net
437. mailto:rob at dumoulins.net
438. http://www.kbsi.co/
439. http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
440. mailto:mirrilm at earthlink.net
441. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
442. mailto:rob at dumoulins.net
443. http://www.kbsi.co/
444. http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
445. mailto:rob at dumoulins.net
446. tel:904.476.8744
447. mailto:rob at dumoulins.net
448. http://www.kbsi.co/
449. http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
450. mailto:mirrilm at earthlink.net
451. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
452. tel:904.476.8744
453. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
454. mailto:guson at home.se
455. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
456. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
457. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
458. mailto:819779826.4191306.1452794938797.JavaMail.yahoo at mail.yahoo.com
459. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
460. mailto:guson at home.se
461. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
462. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
463. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
464. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
465. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
466. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
467. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
468. https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref=ts&
469. http://www.slickpaint.com/
470. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
471. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
472. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
473. https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref=ts&fref
474. http://www.slickpaint.com/
475. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
476. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
477. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
478. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
479. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
480. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
481. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
482. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
483. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
484. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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