[DeTomaso] DeTomaso Digest, Vol 139, Issue 16

B Hower b.hower3400 at yahoo.com
Thu Jan 14 20:32:21 EST 2016


Drive faster to get air flow up past tank. . smile.
 Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow -- for there may not be ! )
 

      From: Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net>
 To: 'tom ware' <ace595 at hotmail.com>; detomaso at poca.com 
 Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 7:14 PM
 Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] DeTomaso Digest, Vol 139, Issue 16
   
Dear Tom,


            I am not an expert, but....

last year I removed the gas tank from my late '74 Pantera, which has had the
stainless steel treatment for the last twenty five years.  Behind the bling
is the base stock thick aluminum(?) which is not a single layer. There are
at least two layers and there *might* be a layer in between.  That is my
guess and I will defer to an expert. 

I think that the normal stainless steel shield installation is over the
stock one.  Perhaps it is heavier, but it would tend to further shield the
gas tank from the headers' heat.


                    Warmest regards, Chuck Engles




-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of tom ware
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 5:58 PM
To: detomaso at poca.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] DeTomaso Digest, Vol 139, Issue 16

Gas tank shield ?
I have a new stainless steel shield that came with my project.
Is it the norm to insulate it for heat.?  
Thanks
Tom

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 14, 2016, at 2:00 PM, <detomaso-request at poca.com>
<detomaso-request at poca.com> wrote:
> 
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> 
> Daily Detomaso List Digest
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>  1. Re: parking brakes (Tomas Gunnarsson)
>  2. Re: parking brakes (MikeLDrew at aol.com)
>  3. Re: parking brakes (MikeLDrew at aol.com)
>  4. Re: parking brakes (MikeLDrew at aol.com)
>  5. Re: Campagnolo Wheels (MikeLDrew at aol.com)
>  6. Re: parking brakes (Stephen)
>  7. Re: parking brakes (L GRAY)
>  8. Re: Campagnolo Wheels (Michael Shortt)
>  9. Re: parking brakes (Tomas Gunnarsson)
>  10. Re: Campagnolo Wheels (Larry Stock)
>  11. Re: parking brakes (Charles McCall)
>  12. Re: parking brakes (Tomas Gunnarsson)
>  13. Re: parking brakes (Charles McCall)
>  14. Re: parking brakes (Thomas Tornblom)
>  15. Re: Campagnolo Wheels (marshall smith)
>  16. Re: Campagnolo Wheels (marshall smith)
>  17. Re: Campagnolo Wheels (Michael Shortt)
>  18. Re: parking brakes (Ken Green)
>  19. Re: parking brakes (Scott Bell)
>  20. NPC 91 Merc parts (B Hower)
>  21. NPC 2000 BMW 740i Sport for whole or parts (Rob Dumoulin)
>  22. Re: NPC 2000 BMW 740i Sport for whole or parts
>      (Mirril M. McMullen)
>  23. Re: NPC 2000 BMW 740i Sport for whole or parts (Rob Dumoulin)
>  24. Re: NPC 2000 BMW 740i Sport for whole or parts (Rob Dumoulin)
>  25. Re: parking brakes (marshall smith)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 11:27:31 -0800
> From: "Tomas Gunnarsson" <guson at home.se>
> To: <gaino at earthlink.net>
> Cc: <steve at snclocks.com>,    <detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> Message-ID: <46D238640B764EE3A581C2544BE74A80 at mail2world.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> Yes Bill, most likely. I have installed calipers on the front side of
> the uprights, the holes were threaded and all. I think I heard that not
> all uprights are drilled front and back but it may be that only newer
> cars that suffer from that.
> 
> Tomas
> 
> 
> 
> <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
> 
>        From: bill gaino [gaino at earthlink.net]
> Sent: 13/1/2016 6:13:51 PM
> To: steve at snclocks.com;guson at home.se
> Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] parking brakes 
> 
> 
> Is it possible to mount the stock calipers in the front position to use
> as Ebrake?  He already has the Wilwoods installed and saftey wired on
> the rear mounts..Bill 1362
> 
> 
> 
>    -----Original Message----- 
>    From: Stephen 
>    Sent: Jan 13, 2016 11:21 AM 
>    To: 'Tomas Gunnarsson' , gaino at earthlink.net 
>    Cc: detomaso at poca.com 
>    Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] parking brakes 
>    
>    
> 
>    Whilst 'inelegant', at least the stock system works well.  I
> installed Wildwoods on the front of the discs and kept the originals on
> the back.  I did have the originals coated black - heck, doesn't look
> that bad.
> 
>    
> 
>    Stephen Nelson
> 
>    
> 
>    -----Original Message-----
>    From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of
> Tomas Gunnarsson
>    Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2016 8:03 AM
>    To: gaino at earthlink.net
>    Cc: detomaso at poca.com
>    Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> 
>    
> 
>    That's simply not a good solution. Doesn't work as an emergency
> brake and parking brake function is dubious. If you park your car with
> the brakes hot they may release when they cool off.
> 
>    
> 
>    Tomas
> 
>    
> 
>    <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
> 
>    
> 
>                                  From: bill gaino
> [gaino at earthlink.net]
> 
>    Sent: 13/1/2016 4:52:29 PM
> 
>    To: detomaso at poca.com <mailto:detomaso at poca.com> 
> 
>    Subject: [DeTomaso] parking brakes 
> 
>    
> 
>    Is anybody using a solinoid based parking brake? Something that
> that blocks fluid in the brake lines to hold calipers pressed against
> the rotors. My customer does not want the extra set of E brake
> calipers..
> 
>    like IPSCO offers. Bill 1362 
> 
>    
> 
>    
> 
>    
> https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref=ts&fref
> <https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref=ts&fre
> f> 
> 
>    =ts
> 
>    If you want it slick. www.slickpaint.com
> <http://www.slickpaint.com>  like us on facebook 
> 
>    
> 
>    _______________________________________________ 
> 
>    
> 
>    Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> 
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> =ts  
> If you want it slick.  www.slickpaint.com  like us on facebook
> 
> 
> . 
> -------------- next part --------------
>  Yes Bill, most likely. I have installed calipers on the front side of
>  the uprights, the holes were threaded and all. I think I heard that not
>  all uprights are drilled front and back but it may be that only newer
>  cars that suffer from that.
> 
>  Tomas
>  <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
>      From: bill gaino [gaino at earthlink.net]
>  Sent: 13/1/2016 6:13:51 PM
>  To: steve at snclocks.com;guson at home.se
>  Cc: detomaso at poca.com
>  Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
>  Is it possible to mount the stock calipers in the front position to use
>  as Ebrake?  He already has the Wilwoods installed and saftey wired on
>  the rear mounts..Bill 1362
> 
>    -----Original Message-----
>    From: Stephen
>    Sent: Jan 13, 2016 11:21 AM
>    To: 'Tomas Gunnarsson' , gaino at earthlink.net
>    Cc: detomaso at poca.com
>    Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> 
>  Whilst `inelegant', at least the stock system works well.  I installed
>  Wildwoods on the front of the discs and kept the originals on the
>  back.  I did have the originals coated black - heck, doesn't look that
>  bad.
> 
> 
>  Stephen Nelson
> 
> 
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of Tomas
>  Gunnarsson
>  Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2016 8:03 AM
>  To: gaino at earthlink.net
>  Cc: detomaso at poca.com
>  Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> 
> 
>  That's simply not a good solution. Doesn't work as an emergency brake
>  and parking brake function is dubious. If you park your car with the
>  brakes hot they may release when they cool off.
> 
>  Tomas
> 
> 
>  <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
> 
> 
>                                From: bill gaino [gaino at earthlink.net]
> 
>  Sent: 13/1/2016 4:52:29 PM
> 
>  To: [1]detomaso at poca.com
> 
>  Subject: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> 
> 
>  Is anybody using a solinoid based parking brake? Something that that
>  blocks fluid in the brake lines to hold calipers pressed against the
>  rotors. My customer does not want the extra set of E brake calipers..
> 
>  like IPSCO offers. Bill 1362
> 
> 
> 
>  [2]https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref=ts&
>  fref
> 
>  =ts
> 
>  If you want it slick. [3]www.slickpaint.com like us on facebook
> 
> 
>  _______________________________________________
> 
> 
>  Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> 
>  Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list
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>  use the links above.
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> If you want it slick.  www.slickpaint.com  like us on facebook
> 
>  .
> 
> References
> 
>  1. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>  2.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref=ts&fref
>  3. http://www.slickpaint.com/
>  4. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>  5. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 14:51:53 -0500
> From: MikeLDrew at aol.com
> To: guson at home.se, gaino at earthlink.net
> Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> Message-ID: <72fdba.12644e17.43c804d9 at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> 
> In a message dated 1/13/16 8 03 59, guson at home.se writes:
> 
> 
>> That's simply not a good solution. Doesn't work as an emergency brake
>> and parking brake function is dubious. If you park your car with the
>> brakes hot they may release when they cool off.
> 
>>>> Tomas, you're talking about a simple line lock.  He's asking about an
> (electrical) solenoid-operated system, which was pioneered by the OEMs and
is 
> in wide use (and is, significantly, sufficiently effective to satisfy 
> government regulations worldwide).  Such systems are now available in the

> aftermarket.
> 
> I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems work by 
> pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple mechanical
'arm' that 
> is pulling on a mechanical parking brake?  Does anybody know that for
sure?
> 
> You're correct in asserting that a simple line lock is insufficient to
hold 
> a car for any length of time; they are designed for very short-term use 
> only.  Geoff Peters' Pantera nearly missed (by less than an inch)
crashing 
> into an Aston Martin DB4 when he let a friend borrow it and the fool
parked it 
> overnight on a slope in neutral with the line lock engaged.  As the
brakes 
> cooled at night, they released and the car rolled through a lot crowded
with 
> collector cars, brushed past the Aston and crashed through a hedge and
down 
> into a ditch!  Fortunately it was unhurt, but it could have been very bad

> indeed.
> 
> A solenoid-type system that actuated the brake hydraulics would be much 
> more effective because it has its own master cylinder that would still
hold 
> pressure even as the fluid cooled.  However, it would not serve as a
proper 
> emergency brake if there was a hydraulic failure (say, a seal blew out in
a 
> caliper) whereas a cable-type system that mechanically leverages the 
> components of the caliper requires no hydraulics to work.
> 
> Mike (who has had no parking brake at all for the past 30 years...park 
> wisely and hope for the best!)
> -------------- next part --------------
>  In a message dated 1/13/16 8 03 59, guson at home.se writes:
> 
>    That's simply not a good solution. Doesn't work as an emergency
>    brake
>    and parking brake function is dubious. If you park your car with the
>    brakes hot they may release when they cool off.
> 
>>>> Tomas, you're talking about a simple line lock.  He's asking about
>  an (electrical) solenoid-operated system, which was pioneered by the
>  OEMs and is in wide use (and is, significantly, sufficiently effective
>  to satisfy government regulations worldwide).  Such systems are now
>  available in the aftermarket.
>  I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems work by
>  pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple mechanical
>  'arm' that is pulling on a mechanical parking brake?  Does anybody know
>  that for sure?
>  You're correct in asserting that a simple line lock is insufficient to
>  hold a car for any length of time; they are designed for very
>  short-term use only.  Geoff Peters' Pantera nearly missed (by less than
>  an inch) crashing into an Aston Martin DB4 when he let a friend borrow
>  it and the fool parked it overnight on a slope in neutral with the line
>  lock engaged.  As the brakes cooled at night, they released and the car
>  rolled through a lot crowded with collector cars, brushed past the
>  Aston and crashed through a hedge and down into a ditch!  Fortunately
>  it was unhurt, but it could have been very bad indeed.
>  A solenoid-type system that actuated the brake hydraulics would be much
>  more effective because it has its own master cylinder that would still
>  hold pressure even as the fluid cooled.  However, it would not serve as
>  a proper emergency brake if there was a hydraulic failure (say, a seal
>  blew out in a caliper) whereas a cable-type system that mechanically
>  leverages the components of the caliper requires no hydraulics to work.
>  Mike (who has had no parking brake at all for the past 30 years...park
>  wisely and hope for the best!)
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 14:51:57 -0500
> From: MikeLDrew at aol.com
> To: gaino at earthlink.net, steve at snclocks.com, guson at home.se
> Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> Message-ID: <72fdc9.23690f23.43c804dd at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> 
> In a message dated 1/13/16 9 15 10, gaino at earthlink.net writes:
> 
> 
>> ?? Is it possible to mount the stock calipers in the front position to 
>> use
>> ?? as Ebrake?? He already has the Wilwoods installed and saftey wired on
>> ?? the rear mounts.
> 
>>>> People who say 'yes' are forgetting about simple mechanics.  The
> calipers are actuated by cables which are introduced into the rear of the 
> wheelwell.  If the calipers are repositioned the cables will no longer
fit, plus if 
> longer ones were used, they would foul the driveshafts on their way 
> forward.  The only possible way to make a system like that work would be
to 
> reposition the cables so they entered the wheelwells ahead of, instead of
behind 
> the hub carriers, and there would be a fair bit of engineering involved.
I 
> suppose it might be possible, but it certainly won't be a trivial
exercise.
> 
> Mike
> -------------- next part --------------
>  In a message dated 1/13/16 9 15 10, gaino at earthlink.net writes:
> 
>        Is it possible to mount the stock calipers in the front position
>    to use
>        as Ebrake?  He already has the Wilwoods installed and saftey
>    wired on
>        the rear mounts.
> 
>>>> People who say 'yes' are forgetting about simple mechanics.  The
>  calipers are actuated by cables which are introduced into the rear of
>  the wheelwell.  If the calipers are repositioned the cables will no
>  longer fit, plus if longer ones were used, they would foul the
>  driveshafts on their way forward.  The only possible way to make a
>  system like that work would be to reposition the cables so they entered
>  the wheelwells ahead of, instead of behind the hub carriers, and there
>  would be a fair bit of engineering involved.  I suppose it might be
>  possible, but it certainly won't be a trivial exercise.
>  Mike
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 14:52:03 -0500
> From: MikeLDrew at aol.com
> To: guson at home.se, gaino at earthlink.net
> Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> Message-ID: <72fddd.5edc2feb.43c804e3 at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> 
> In a message dated 1/13/16 11 28 28, guson at home.se writes:
> 
> 
>> Yes Bill, most likely. I have installed calipers on the front side of
>> the uprights, the holes were threaded and all. I think I heard that not
>> all uprights are drilled front and back but it may be that only newer
>> cars that suffer from that.
> 
>>>> True--the GT5/GT5-S uprights are 'handed' with mounting holes only on
> one side (which, when you think about it, is really dumb from a production

> standpoint).  
> 
> Mike
> -------------- next part --------------
>  In a message dated 1/13/16 11 28 28, guson at home.se writes:
> 
>    Yes Bill, most likely. I have installed calipers on the front side
>    of
>    the uprights, the holes were threaded and all. I think I heard that
>    not
>    all uprights are drilled front and back but it may be that only
>    newer
>    cars that suffer from that.
> 
>>>> True--the GT5/GT5-S uprights are 'handed' with mounting holes only
>  on one side (which, when you think about it, is really dumb from a
>  production standpoint).
>  Mike
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 15:19:19 -0500
> From: MikeLDrew at aol.com
> To: davel at emspace.com, detomaso at poca.com, michael at michaelshortt.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Campagnolo Wheels
> Message-ID: <73161a.56810af3.43c80b47 at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> 
> In a message dated 1/10/16 21 39 38, davel at emspace.com writes:
> 
> 
>> 
>> My 17" Hall wheels are a lot heavier than the mags.
>> I think that's fine for street, but aren't you concerned about the
>> unsprung weight for track use?
>> dave
>> 
>> 
>>>> Interesting.  This was apparently a reply to an original post by
> Michael Shortt, but that post never came through to me nor did it wind up
in my 
> spam folder?
> 
> I'm noting some irregularities with the forum these days....anyway, 
> thankfully Dave included Michael's original post, so see replies below:
> 
> 
>>> On 1/08/16 9:17 PM, Michael Shortt wrote:
>>> ? ?? Greetings,
>>> 
>>> ? ?? After gathering all my wheels in one place and a brief inventory
>> today,
>>> ? ?? I have 21 Campy wheels,
>> 
>>>> Uh...that's a lot. :>)
> 
> 
> 
>>> ? ?? 5 Single Slots and a mixture of the 4 Double Slots and Zero Triple
>>> ? ?? Slots ( No 10") Plus 2 sets of 17" Boyd Coddington Wheels made for
>> Hall
>>> ? ?? Pantera.
> 
>>>> Uh, I don't think Coddington every made wheels for Hall?  He did make
> them for several other vendors, in several different styles, some markedly

> better than others.  Can you share some images perhaps to help in 
> identification?
> 
> Hall did have somebody cast up ten-spoke Si-looking wheels that were
welded 
> together, and perhaps Coddington was the source for those?
> 
>>>> ? ?? And the 17" 10 spokes on the car now with 335/35 and 245/40.
>> 
>>>> What kind of wheels are those?  10 spokes is a pretty vague
> descriiption--although I admit I'm pretty certain how many spokes they
have at least. :>
> )
> 
>>> 
>>> ? ?? I am keeping the 10 spokes with PZeros for Street use,
>>> ? ?? And one set of the 17" Hall Wheels with 315/235 Kumhos for Rally
and
>>> ? ?? Track use.
>> 
>>>> Wait--are you talking about Coddington Campagnolo clones, or Hall
wheels
> which are three-piece, bolt-together affairs, with a fake center spinner?

> Those are as different as chalk and cheese (with the latter being the only

> genuinely suspect/dangerous wheels I've ever encountered).
> 
> 
>>> ? ?? I will be keeping the Single Slots for Concours with skinny
>> Blackwalls
>>> ? ?? and a set of Double Slots with Vintage Arrivas for Photos, With a
>> spare
>>> ? ?? Front and a Spare Rear in case of a boo boo.
>> 
>>>> Sounds good!  
>>> 
>>>> ? ?? That leaves 2 full sets of double slot wheels to dispose of. Sell
>> or
>>> ? ?? Trade. Photos Available.
>> 
>>>> Somebody just asked for a set--Guy Dellavecchia?  What kind are they?

> Guy might want to trade his '71 two-slot wheels for some L-model wheels?
> 
>>> ? ?? I'd love a Triple Slot set. Anybody have some?
>> 
>>>> I have only ever seen two of them (separately) in my life.  These were
> an experimental wheel used on the first pushmobile prototype.  I have no 
> idea how many were put into production but I've never seen any other car 
> wearing them, so I would have to imagine the number is very small indeed.
Even 
> 1006, the earliest known Pantera extant, had single slot wheels.
> 
> So don't hold your breath waiting for a full set of three-slot wheels to 
> appear. :>)
> 
>>> I will sort them this week by design, Thanks Mike Drew for the Campy
>>> ? ?? Wheel education.
>> 
>>>> It's my pleasure, but at this point I'm far more concerned about your
> aftermarket wheels.  Simply put, I would never wish three-piece Hall
wheels 
> on my worst enemy, and especially not for track use.  We collectively
know 
> about multiple failures, which always led to rapid deflation and a
potential 
> accident.  Jack has often told of the car that was zorching down Mt. Ch
> arleston in Las Vegas at triple digit speeds one year when his Hall wheel 
> dismantled himself; I believe it thrust the car into the scenery, but
can't 
> remember that aspect of the story for sure.  Jack?
> 
> Larry Stock had a car on the grass at Concorso that he was trying to sell;

> a rear wheel simply blew apart while the car was parked (!) and he had to 
> tow it back to Nevada as it couldn't be fixed--it had cracked halfway
around.  
> The other three wheels had similar cracks when they were taken apart and 
> inspected.
> 
> And Mad Dog's fire was indirectly caused by the failure of his Hall wheel;

> when the left rear wheel failed, the car fell down onto the freeway in Los

> Angeles.  What wasn't seen was that during the collapse, the brake line
was 
> damaged.  MD swapped his stock wheels w/race tires on and ran the Silver 
> State a day or two later, but when he stepped on the brakes at the finish 
> line, the line ruptured, fluid sprayed onto the exhaust and the rest was 
> history.
> 
> And on and on and on...I'm sure there are many others.
> 
> Those wheels were a very well-intentioned design but they were woefully 
> under-engineered, and today should be related either to a display case, or
a 
> recycling bin IMHO....
> 
> So tell me exactly what kind of wheels you're talking about here, as the 
> Coddington wheels (which I have aesthetic problems with, admittedly) are 
> nothing like these Hall wheels at all.
> 
>>>> ? ?? Just let a local guy soda blast two of them down to the green
>> primer,
>>> ? ?? I'll probably paint them Argent Silver and Clear them just to see
>> the
>>> ? ?? final results.
>>> ? ?? Photo attached.
>> 
>>>> Since I didn't get your original e-mail, I didn't get the photo
> either....
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> Mike
> -------------- next part --------------
>  In a message dated 1/10/16 21 39 38, davel at emspace.com writes:
> 
>    My 17" Hall wheels are a lot heavier than the mags.
>    I think that's fine for street, but aren't you concerned about the
>    unsprung weight for track use?
>    dave
> 
>>>> Interesting.  This was apparently a reply to an original post by
>  Michael Shortt, but that post never came through to me nor did it wind
>  up in my spam folder?
>  I'm noting some irregularities with the forum these days....anyway,
>  thankfully Dave included Michael's original post, so see replies below:
> 
>>    On 1/08/16 9:17 PM, Michael Shortt wrote:
>>    Greetings,
>> 
>>    After gathering all my wheels in one place and a brief
>    inventory today,
>>    I have 21 Campy wheels,
> 
>>>> Uh...that's a lot. :>)
> 
>>    5 Single Slots and a mixture of the 4 Double Slots and Zero
>    Triple
>>    Slots ( No 10") Plus 2 sets of 17" Boyd Coddington Wheels made
>    for Hall
>>    Pantera.
> 
>>>> Uh, I don't think Coddington every made wheels for Hall?  He did
>  make them for several other vendors, in several different styles, some
>  markedly better than others.  Can you share some images perhaps to help
>  in identification?
>  Hall did have somebody cast up ten-spoke Si-looking wheels that were
>  welded together, and perhaps Coddington was the source for those?
> 
>>>    And the 17" 10 spokes on the car now with 335/35 and 245/40.
> 
>>>> What kind of wheels are those?  10 spokes is a pretty vague
>  descriiption--although I admit I'm pretty certain how many spokes they
>  have at least. :>)
> 
>> 
>>    I am keeping the 10 spokes with PZeros for Street use,
>>    And one set of the 17" Hall Wheels with 315/235 Kumhos for
>    Rally and
>>    Track use.
> 
>>>> Wait--are you talking about Coddington Campagnolo clones, or Hall
>  wheels which are three-piece, bolt-together affairs, with a fake center
>  spinner?  Those are as different as chalk and cheese (with the latter
>  being the only genuinely suspect/dangerous wheels I've ever
>  encountered).
> 
>>    I will be keeping the Single Slots for Concours with skinny
>    Blackwalls
>>    and a set of Double Slots with Vintage Arrivas for Photos,
>    With a spare
>>    Front and a Spare Rear in case of a boo boo.
> 
>>>> Sounds good!
> 
>> 
>>>    That leaves 2 full sets of double slot wheels to dispose of.
>    Sell or
>>    Trade. Photos Available.
> 
>>>> Somebody just asked for a set--Guy Dellavecchia?  What kind are
>  they?  Guy might want to trade his '71 two-slot wheels for some L-model
>  wheels?
> 
>>    I'd love a Triple Slot set. Anybody have some?
> 
>>>> I have only ever seen two of them (separately) in my life.  These
>  were an experimental wheel used on the first pushmobile prototype.  I
>  have no idea how many were put into production but I've never seen any
>  other car wearing them, so I would have to imagine the number is very
>  small indeed.  Even 1006, the earliest known Pantera extant, had single
>  slot wheels.
>  So don't hold your breath waiting for a full set of three-slot wheels
>  to appear. :>)
> 
>> I will sort them this week by design, Thanks Mike Drew for the
>    Campy
>>    Wheel education.
> 
>>>> It's my pleasure, but at this point I'm far more concerned about
>  your aftermarket wheels.  Simply put, I would never wish three-piece
>  Hall wheels on my worst enemy, and especially not for track use.  We
>  collectively know about multiple failures, which always led to rapid
>  deflation and a potential accident.  Jack has often told of the car
>  that was zorching down Mt. Charleston in Las Vegas at triple digit
>  speeds one year when his Hall wheel dismantled himself; I believe it
>  thrust the car into the scenery, but can't remember that aspect of the
>  story for sure.  Jack?
>  Larry Stock had a car on the grass at Concorso that he was trying to
>  sell; a rear wheel simply blew apart while the car was parked (!) and
>  he had to tow it back to Nevada as it couldn't be fixed--it had cracked
>  halfway around.  The other three wheels had similar cracks when they
>  were taken apart and inspected.
>  And Mad Dog's fire was indirectly caused by the failure of his Hall
>  wheel; when the left rear wheel failed, the car fell down onto the
>  freeway in Los Angeles.  What wasn't seen was that during the collapse,
>  the brake line was damaged.  MD swapped his stock wheels w/race tires
>  on and ran the Silver State a day or two later, but when he stepped on
>  the brakes at the finish line, the line ruptured, fluid sprayed onto
>  the exhaust and the rest was history.
>  And on and on and on...I'm sure there are many others.
>  Those wheels were a very well-intentioned design but they were woefully
>  under-engineered, and today should be related either to a display case,
>  or a recycling bin IMHO....
>  So tell me exactly what kind of wheels you're talking about here, as
>  the Coddington wheels (which I have aesthetic problems with,
>  admittedly) are nothing like these Hall wheels at all.
> 
>>>    Just let a local guy soda blast two of them down to the green
>    primer,
>>    I'll probably paint them Argent Silver and Clear them just to
>    see the
>>    final results.
>>    Photo attached.
> 
>>>> Since I didn't get your original e-mail, I didn't get the photo
>  either....
>  Cheers!
>  Mike
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 12:23:56 -0800
> From: "Stephen" <steve at snclocks.com>
> To: <MikeLDrew at aol.com>,    <gaino at earthlink.net>,    <guson at home.se>
> Cc: <detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> Message-ID: <00d501d14e40$54625920$fd270b60$@snclocks.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> When I was going through my brakes I wanted to clean out the e-brake
> housings and the cables.  So, I cut off the cable ends, took everything
> apart, took all the old plastic sheath off the housings, replaced with
heavy
> shrink-to-fit, cut the housings to be a better fit with less excess
length,
> lubed with graphite-impregnated grease, then put new ends on the cables to
> match the length that they needed to be.  Went together very nicely.
> 
> 
> 
> It would have been pretty much as simple to change length to match a front
> mounting for the originals, but would have likely required cutting a pair
of
> holes in the sheet metal - I hate extra holes.
> 
> 
> 
> For what all that is worth.
> 
> 
> 
> Stephen Nelson
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: MikeLDrew at aol.com [mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com] 
> Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2016 11:52 AM
> To: gaino at earthlink.net; steve at snclocks.com; guson at home.se
> Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In a message dated 1/13/16 9 15 10, gaino at earthlink.net
> <mailto:gaino at earthlink.net>  writes:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Is it possible to mount the stock calipers in the front position to use
>  as Ebrake?  He already has the Wilwoods installed and saftey wired on
>  the rear mounts.
> 
> 
> 
>>>> People who say 'yes' are forgetting about simple mechanics.  The
calipers
> are actuated by cables which are introduced into the rear of the
wheelwell.
> If the calipers are repositioned the cables will no longer fit, plus if
> longer ones were used, they would foul the driveshafts on their way
forward.
> The only possible way to make a system like that work would be to
reposition
> the cables so they entered the wheelwells ahead of, instead of behind the
> hub carriers, and there would be a fair bit of engineering involved.  I
> suppose it might be possible, but it certainly won't be a trivial
exercise.
> 
> Mike
> 
> -------------- next part --------------
>  When I was going through my brakes I wanted to clean out the e-brake
>  housings and the cables.  So, I cut off the cable ends, took everything
>  apart, took all the old plastic sheath off the housings, replaced with
>  heavy shrink-to-fit, cut the housings to be a better fit with less
>  excess length, lubed with graphite-impregnated grease, then put new
>  ends on the cables to match the length that they needed to be.  Went
>  together very nicely.
> 
> 
>  It would have been pretty much as simple to change length to match a
>  front mounting for the originals, but would have likely required
>  cutting a pair of holes in the sheet metal - I hate extra holes...
> 
> 
>  For what all that is worth.
> 
> 
>  Stephen Nelson
> 
> 
> 
>  From: MikeLDrew at aol.com [mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com]
>  Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2016 11:52 AM
>  To: gaino at earthlink.net; steve at snclocks.com; guson at home.se
>  Cc: detomaso at poca.com
>  Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> 
> 
>  In a message dated 1/13/16 9 15 10, [1]gaino at earthlink.net writes:
> 
>        Is it possible to mount the stock calipers in the front position
>    to use
>        as Ebrake?  He already has the Wilwoods installed and saftey
>    wired on
>        the rear mounts.
> 
>>>> People who say 'yes' are forgetting about simple mechanics.  The
>  calipers are actuated by cables which are introduced into the rear of
>  the wheelwell.  If the calipers are repositioned the cables will no
>  longer fit, plus if longer ones were used, they would foul the
>  driveshafts on their way forward.  The only possible way to make a
>  system like that work would be to reposition the cables so they entered
>  the wheelwells ahead of, instead of behind the hub carriers, and there
>  would be a fair bit of engineering involved.  I suppose it might be
>  possible, but it certainly won't be a trivial exercise.
>  Mike
> 
> References
> 
>  1. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 7
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 21:07:23 +0000
> From: L GRAY <tipo874a at msn.com>
> To: "MikeLDrew at aol.com" <MikeLDrew at aol.com>
> Cc: "guson at home.se" <guson at home.se>, "gaino at earthlink.net"
>    <gaino at earthlink.net>, "detomaso at poca.com" <detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> Message-ID:
>
<BLUPR19MB0163500785FD9792060E49A29DCB0 at BLUPR19MB0163.namprd19.prod.outlook.
com>
>    
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> 
> Hate to disagree here Mike. The only uprights that were produced for a
Pantera that were right or left handed were "some" of Hall Pantera's
aluminum uprights, and they originally had mounts on front and rear. For
some reason later on in production they were built without both sets of
ears.......... never understood why .......as you said dumb idea !!
>      The Group 4 uprights were manufactured with both sets of ears. Some
of you may not know that the GT 5 and the GT 5-S rear uprights were taken
from the competition Group 4 spares inventory.  
> 
> Leslie A. Gray
> 
>> On Jan 13, 2016, at 12:53 PM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
wrote:
>> 
>>  In a message dated 1/13/16 11 28 28, guson at home.se writes:
>> 
>>    Yes Bill, most likely. I have installed calipers on the front side
>>    of
>>    the uprights, the holes were threaded and all. I think I heard that
>>    not
>>    all uprights are drilled front and back but it may be that only
>>    newer
>>    cars that suffer from that.
>> 
>>>>> True--the GT5/GT5-S uprights are 'handed' with mounting holes only
>>  on one side (which, when you think about it, is really dumb from a
>>  production standpoint).
>>  Mike
>> _______________________________________________
>> 
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>> 
>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use
the links above.
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 8
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 16:20:31 -0500
> From: Michael Shortt <michaelsavga at gmail.com>
> To: 576103 <MikeLDrew at aol.com>
> Cc: Dave Londry <davel at emspace.com>, "detomaso at poca.com"
>    <detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Campagnolo Wheels
> Message-ID:
>    <CAEWtxWrnqwjnrhKaKWzkxyc4SnmmwfoeAk1gHft7eVUsB=Di5Q at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> none of my wheels are assembled ( fasteners) 3 piece wheels, all are
welded
> or billet.
> 
> I have driven on the wheels on street, on track and on the Tail of the
> Dragon and have had zero issues in 12 years with 2 different designs,
> not sure who mad ethe current wheels ( 10 spoke ), but they show no signs
> of stress, damage either.
> 
> It may be my luck, it could be others bad luck, it could be misuse and
> driving style.
> 
> My Dad owned 3 Audi 5000's, he never had any issues either, maybe because
> he never pressed the gas instead of the brake.
> 
> 
> Michael Shortt
> 
>> On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 3:19 PM, <MikeLDrew at aol.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> In a message dated 1/10/16 21 39 38, davel at emspace.com writes:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> My 17" Hall wheels are a lot heavier than the mags.
>> I think that's fine for street, but aren't you concerned about the
>> unsprung weight for track use?
>> dave
>> 
>> 
>>>>> Interesting.  This was apparently a reply to an original post by
>> Michael Shortt, but that post never came through to me nor did it wind up
>> in my spam folder?
>> 
>> I'm noting some irregularities with the forum these days....anyway,
>> thankfully Dave included Michael's original post, so see replies below:
>> 
>> 
>>> On 1/08/16 9:17 PM, Michael Shortt wrote:
>>>    Greetings,
>>> 
>>>    After gathering all my wheels in one place and a brief inventory
>> today,
>>>    I have 21 Campy wheels,
>> 
>>>>> Uh...that's a lot. :>)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>>    5 Single Slots and a mixture of the 4 Double Slots and Zero Triple
>>>    Slots ( No 10") Plus 2 sets of 17" Boyd Coddington Wheels made for
>> Hall
>>>    Pantera.
>> 
>> 
>>>>> Uh, I don't think Coddington every made wheels for Hall?  He did make
>> them for several other vendors, in several different styles, some
markedly
>> better than others.  Can you share some images perhaps to help in
>> identification?
>> 
>> Hall did have somebody cast up ten-spoke Si-looking wheels that were
>> welded together, and perhaps Coddington was the source for those?
>> 
>>>>    And the 17" 10 spokes on the car now with 335/35 and 245/40.
>> 
>>>>> What kind of wheels are those?  10 spokes is a pretty vague
>> descriiption--although I admit I'm pretty certain how many spokes they
have
>> at least. :>)
>> 
>>> 
>>>    I am keeping the 10 spokes with PZeros for Street use,
>>>    And one set of the 17" Hall Wheels with 315/235 Kumhos for Rally and
>>>    Track use.
>> 
>>>>> Wait--are you talking about Coddington Campagnolo clones, or Hall
>> wheels which are three-piece, bolt-together affairs, with a fake center
>> spinner?  Those are as different as chalk and cheese (with the latter
being
>> the only genuinely suspect/dangerous wheels I've ever encountered).
>> 
>> 
>>>    I will be keeping the Single Slots for Concours with skinny
>> Blackwalls
>>>    and a set of Double Slots with Vintage Arrivas for Photos, With a
>> spare
>>>    Front and a Spare Rear in case of a boo boo.
>> 
>>>>> Sounds good!
>> 
>>> 
>>>>    That leaves 2 full sets of double slot wheels to dispose of. Sell or
>>>    Trade. Photos Available.
>> 
>>>>> Somebody just asked for a set--Guy Dellavecchia?  What kind are they?
>> Guy might want to trade his '71 two-slot wheels for some L-model wheels?
>> 
>>>    I'd love a Triple Slot set. Anybody have some?
>> 
>>>>> I have only ever seen two of them (separately) in my life.  These were
>> an experimental wheel used on the first pushmobile prototype.  I have no
>> idea how many were put into production but I've never seen any other car
>> wearing them, so I would have to imagine the number is very small indeed.
>> Even 1006, the earliest known Pantera extant, had single slot wheels.
>> 
>> So don't hold your breath waiting for a full set of three-slot wheels to
>> appear. :>)
>> 
>>> I will sort them this week by design, Thanks Mike Drew for the Campy
>>>    Wheel education.
>> 
>>>>> It's my pleasure, but at this point I'm far more concerned about your
>> aftermarket wheels.  Simply put, I would never wish three-piece Hall
wheels
>> on my worst enemy, and especially not for track use.  We collectively
know
>> about multiple failures, which always led to rapid deflation and a
>> potential accident.  Jack has often told of the car that was zorching
down
>> Mt. Charleston in Las Vegas at triple digit speeds one year when his Hall
>> wheel dismantled himself; I believe it thrust the car into the scenery,
but
>> can't remember that aspect of the story for sure.  Jack?
>> 
>> Larry Stock had a car on the grass at Concorso that he was trying to
sell;
>> a rear wheel simply blew apart while the car was parked (!) and he had to
>> tow it back to Nevada as it couldn't be fixed--it had cracked halfway
>> around.  The other three wheels had similar cracks when they were taken
>> apart and inspected.
>> 
>> And Mad Dog's fire was indirectly caused by the failure of his Hall
wheel;
>> when the left rear wheel failed, the car fell down onto the freeway in
Los
>> Angeles.  What wasn't seen was that during the collapse, the brake line
was
>> damaged.  MD swapped his stock wheels w/race tires on and ran the Silver
>> State a day or two later, but when he stepped on the brakes at the finish
>> line, the line ruptured, fluid sprayed onto the exhaust and the rest was
>> history.
>> 
>> And on and on and on...I'm sure there are many others.
>> 
>> Those wheels were a very well-intentioned design but they were woefully
>> under-engineered, and today should be related either to a display case,
or
>> a recycling bin IMHO....
>> 
>> So tell me exactly what kind of wheels you're talking about here, as the
>> Coddington wheels (which I have aesthetic problems with, admittedly) are
>> nothing like these Hall wheels at all.
>> 
>>>>    Just let a local guy soda blast two of them down to the green
>> primer,
>>>    I'll probably paint them Argent Silver and Clear them just to see the
>>>    final results.
>>>    Photo attached.
>> 
>>>>> Since I didn't get your original e-mail, I didn't get the photo
>> either....
>> 
>> Cheers!
>> 
>> Mike
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Michael L. Shortt
> Savannah, Georgia
> www.michaelshortt.com
> michael at michaelshortt.com
> 912-232-9390
> 
> 
> This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy
> Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally
> privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby
notified
> that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this
> communication is strictly prohibited.  Please reply to the sender that you
> have received this message in error, then delete it.  Thank you
> -------------- next part --------------
>  none of my wheels are assembled ( fasteners) 3 piece wheels, all are
>  welded or billet.
>  I have driven on the wheels on street, on track and on the Tail of the
>  Dragon and have had zero issues in 12 years with 2 different designs,
>  not sure who mad ethe current wheels ( 10 spoke ), but they show no
>  signs of stress, damage either.
>  It may be my luck, it could be others bad luck, it could be misuse and
>  driving style.
>  My Dad owned 3 Audi 5000's, he never had any issues either, maybe
>  because he never pressed the gas instead of the brake.
>  Michael Shortt
> 
>  On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 3:19 PM, <[1]MikeLDrew at aol.com> wrote:
> 
>    In a message dated 1/10/16 21 39 38, [2]davel at emspace.com writes:
>    My 17" Hall wheels are a lot heavier than the mags.
>    I think that's fine for street, but aren't you concerned about the
>    unsprung weight for track use?
>    dave
>>>> Interesting.A  This was apparently a reply to an original post by
>    Michael Shortt, but that post never came through to me nor did it
>    wind up in my spam folder?
>    I'm noting some irregularities with the forum these days....anyway,
>    thankfully Dave included Michael's original post, so see replies
>    below:
>>    On 1/08/16 9:17 PM, Michael Shortt wrote:
>> A  A A  Greetings,
>> 
>> A  A A  After gathering all my wheels in one place and a brief
>    inventory today,
>> A  A A  I have 21 Campy wheels,
>>>> Uh...that's a lot. :>)
> 
>> A  A A  5 Single Slots and a mixture of the 4 Double Slots and Zero
>    Triple
>> A  A A  Slots ( No 10") Plus 2 sets of 17" Boyd Coddington Wheels
>    made for Hall
>> A  A A  Pantera.
>>>> Uh, I don't think Coddington every made wheels for Hall?A  He did
>    make them for several other vendors, in several different styles,
>    some markedly better than others.A  Can you share some images
>    perhaps to help in identification?
>    Hall did have somebody cast up ten-spoke Si-looking wheels that were
>    welded together, and perhaps Coddington was the source for those?
> 
>>> A  A A  And the 17" 10 spokes on the car now with 335/35 and
>    245/40.
>>>> What kind of wheels are those?A  10 spokes is a pretty vague
>    descriiption--although I admit I'm pretty certain how many spokes
>    they have at least. :>)
> 
>> 
>> A  A A  I am keeping the 10 spokes with PZeros for Street use,
>> A  A A  And one set of the 17" Hall Wheels with 315/235 Kumhos for
>    Rally and
>> A  A A  Track use.
>>>> Wait--are you talking about Coddington Campagnolo clones, or Hall
>    wheels which are three-piece, bolt-together affairs, with a fake
>    center spinner?A  Those are as different as chalk and cheese (with
>    the latter being the only genuinely suspect/dangerous wheels I've
>    ever encountered).
> 
>> A  A A  I will be keeping the Single Slots for Concours with skinny
>    Blackwalls
>> A  A A  and a set of Double Slots with Vintage Arrivas for Photos,
>    With a spare
>> A  A A  Front and a Spare Rear in case of a boo boo.
>>>> Sounds good!A
> 
>> 
>>> A  A A  That leaves 2 full sets of double slot wheels to dispose
>    of. Sell or
>> A  A A  Trade. Photos Available.
>>>> Somebody just asked for a set--Guy Dellavecchia?A  What kind are
>    they?A  Guy might want to trade his '71 two-slot wheels for some
>    L-model wheels?
> 
>> A  A A  I'd love a Triple Slot set. Anybody have some?
>>>> I have only ever seen two of them (separately) in my life.A
>    These were an experimental wheel used on the first pushmobile
>    prototype.A  I have no idea how many were put into production but
>    I've never seen any other car wearing them, so I would have to
>    imagine the number is very small indeed.A  Even 1006, the earliest
>    known Pantera extant, had single slot wheels.
>    So don't hold your breath waiting for a full set of three-slot
>    wheels to appear. :>)
> 
>> I will sort them this week by design, Thanks Mike Drew for the
>    Campy
>> A  A A  Wheel education.
>>>> It's my pleasure, but at this point I'm far more concerned about
>    your aftermarket wheels.A  Simply put, I would never wish
>    three-piece Hall wheels on my worst enemy, and especially not for
>    track use.A  We collectively know about multiple failures, which
>    always led to rapid deflation and a potential accident.A  Jack has
>    often told of the car that was zorching down Mt. Charleston in Las
>    Vegas at triple digit speeds one year when his Hall wheel dismantled
>    himself; I believe it thrust the car into the scenery, but can't
>    remember that aspect of the story for sure.A  Jack?
>    Larry Stock had a car on the grass at Concorso that he was trying to
>    sell; a rear wheel simply blew apart while the car was parked (!)
>    and he had to tow it back to Nevada as it couldn't be fixed--it had
>    cracked halfway around.A  The other three wheels had similar cracks
>    when they were taken apart and inspected.
>    And Mad Dog's fire was indirectly caused by the failure of his Hall
>    wheel; when the left rear wheel failed, the car fell down onto the
>    freeway in Los Angeles.A  What wasn't seen was that during the
>    collapse, the brake line was damaged.A  MD swapped his stock wheels
>    w/race tires on and ran the Silver State a day or two later, but
>    when he stepped on the brakes at the finish line, the line ruptured,
>    fluid sprayed onto the exhaust and the rest was history.
>    And on and on and on...I'm sure there are many others.
>    Those wheels were a very well-intentioned design but they were
>    woefully under-engineered, and today should be related either to a
>    display case, or a recycling bin IMHO....
>    So tell me exactly what kind of wheels you're talking about here, as
>    the Coddington wheels (which I have aesthetic problems with,
>    admittedly) are nothing like these Hall wheels at all.
>>> A  A A  Just let a local guy soda blast two of them down to the
>    green primer,
>> A  A A  I'll probably paint them Argent Silver and Clear them just
>    to see the
>> A  A A  final results.
>> A  A A  Photo attached.
>> 
>>>> Since I didn't get your original e-mail, I didn't get the photo
>    either....
>    Cheers!
>    Mike
> 
>  --
>  Michael L. Shortt
>  Savannah, Georgia
>  [3]www.michaelshortt.com
>  [4]michael at michaelshortt.com
>  912-232-9390
>  A
>  This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy
>  Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally
>  privileged.A  If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby
>  notified
>  that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this
>  communication is strictly prohibited.A  Please reply to the sender that
>  you
>  have received this message in error, then delete it.A  Thank you
> 
> References
> 
>  1. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
>  2. mailto:davel at emspace.com
>  3. http://www.michaelshortt.com/
>  4. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 9
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 13:23:36 -0800
> From: "Tomas Gunnarsson" <guson at home.se>
> To: <MikeLDrew at aol.com>
> Cc: <gaino at earthlink.net>,    <detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> Message-ID: <F6F0EDD7F26440B0970C3CD2C70F6033 at mail2world.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> Mike,
> 
> Bill originally wrote: Something that that blocks fluid in the brake
> lines to hold calipers pressed against the rotors.
> 
> 
> Aka line loc.
> 
> 
> OEM electric parking brakes work by having an electric motor actuate the
> brake via a mechanical device, like a wire.
> 
> 
> Tomas
> 
> 
> 
> <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
> 
>        From: Mike Drew via DeTomaso [detomaso at poca.com]
> Sent: 13/1/2016 8:51:53 PM
> To: guson at home.se;gaino at earthlink.net
> Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes 
> 
> 
> In a message dated 1/13/16 8 03 59, guson at home.se writes: 
> 
> 
>> That's simply not a good solution. Doesn't work as an emergency brake 
>> and parking brake function is dubious. If you park your car with the 
>> brakes hot they may release when they cool off.
> 
>>>> Tomas, you're talking about a simple line lock. He's asking about an
> (electrical) solenoid-operated system, which was pioneered by the OEMs
> and is 
> in wide use (and is, significantly, sufficiently effective to satisfy 
> government regulations worldwide). Such systems are now available in the
> aftermarket. 
> 
> I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems work by 
> pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple mechanical
> 'arm' that 
> is pulling on a mechanical parking brake? Does anybody know that for
> sure? 
> 
> You're correct in asserting that a simple line lock is insufficient to
> hold 
> a car for any length of time; they are designed for very short-term use 
> only. Geoff Peters' Pantera nearly missed (by less than an inch)
> crashing 
> into an Aston Martin DB4 when he let a friend borrow it and the fool
> parked it 
> overnight on a slope in neutral with the line lock engaged. As the
> brakes 
> cooled at night, they released and the car rolled through a lot crowded
> with 
> collector cars, brushed past the Aston and crashed through a hedge and
> down 
> into a ditch! Fortunately it was unhurt, but it could have been very bad
> indeed. 
> 
> A solenoid-type system that actuated the brake hydraulics would be much 
> more effective because it has its own master cylinder that would still
> hold 
> pressure even as the fluid cooled. However, it would not serve as a
> proper 
> emergency brake if there was a hydraulic failure (say, a seal blew out
> in a 
> caliper) whereas a cable-type system that mechanically leverages the 
> components of the caliper requires no hydraulics to work. 
> 
> Mike (who has had no parking brake at all for the past 30 years...park 
> wisely and hope for the best!)    
> -------------- next part --------------
>  Mike,
> 
>  Bill originally wrote: Something that that blocks fluid in the brake
>  lines to hold calipers pressed against the rotors.
> 
>  Aka line loc.
> 
>  OEM electric parking brakes work by having an electric motor actuate
>  the brake via a mechanical device, like a wire.
> 
>  Tomas
>  <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
>      From: Mike Drew via DeTomaso [detomaso at poca.com]
>  Sent: 13/1/2016 8:51:53 PM
>  To: guson at home.se;gaino at earthlink.net
>  Cc: detomaso at poca.com
>  Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
>  In a message dated 1/13/16 8 03 59, guson at home.se writes:
>> That's simply not a good solution. Doesn't work as an emergency brake
>> and parking brake function is dubious. If you park your car with the
>> brakes hot they may release when they cool off.
>> 
>>>> Tomas, you're talking about a simple line lock. He's asking about an
>  (electrical) solenoid-operated system, which was pioneered by the OEMs
>  and is
>  in wide use (and is, significantly, sufficiently effective to satisfy
>  government regulations worldwide). Such systems are now available in
>  the
>  aftermarket.
>  I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems work by
>  pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple mechanical
>  'arm' that
>  is pulling on a mechanical parking brake? Does anybody know that for
>  sure?
>  You're correct in asserting that a simple line lock is insufficient to
>  hold
>  a car for any length of time; they are designed for very short-term use
>  only. Geoff Peters' Pantera nearly missed (by less than an inch)
>  crashing
>  into an Aston Martin DB4 when he let a friend borrow it and the fool
>  parked it
>  overnight on a slope in neutral with the line lock engaged. As the
>  brakes
>  cooled at night, they released and the car rolled through a lot crowded
>  with
>  collector cars, brushed past the Aston and crashed through a hedge and
>  down
>  into a ditch! Fortunately it was unhurt, but it could have been very
>  bad
>  indeed.
>  A solenoid-type system that actuated the brake hydraulics would be much
>  more effective because it has its own master cylinder that would still
>  hold
>  pressure even as the fluid cooled. However, it would not serve as a
>  proper
>  emergency brake if there was a hydraulic failure (say, a seal blew out
>  in a
>  caliper) whereas a cable-type system that mechanically leverages the
>  components of the caliper requires no hydraulics to work.
>  Mike (who has had no parking brake at all for the past 30 years...park
>  wisely and hope for the best!)
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 10
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 13:30:22 -0800
> From: Larry Stock <larrys at panteraparts.com>
> To: <MikeLDrew at aol.com>, <davel at emspace.com>, <detomaso at poca.com>,
>    <michael at michaelshortt.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Campagnolo Wheels
> Message-ID: <D2BC0041.15C59F%larrys at panteraparts.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="ISO-8859-1"
> 
> I am taking in a set of 8?s and 10?s X15? Campy?s with new tires next week
> on a sale and trade I am doing. Since you guys are talking about these, I
> am going to have a set available in the next week or so.
> E-mail me for more info and details.
> Larrys at PanteraParts.com (1-800-DeTomaso) 800-338-6627
> 
> 
> On 1/13/16, 12:19 PM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Mike Drew via DeTomaso"
> <detomaso-bounces at poca.com on behalf of detomaso at poca.com> wrote:
> 
>>  In a message dated 1/10/16 21 39 38, davel at emspace.com writes:
>> 
>>    My 17" Hall wheels are a lot heavier than the mags.
>>    I think that's fine for street, but aren't you concerned about the
>>    unsprung weight for track use?
>>    dave
>> 
>>>>> Interesting.  This was apparently a reply to an original post by
>>  Michael Shortt, but that post never came through to me nor did it wind
>>  up in my spam folder?
>>  I'm noting some irregularities with the forum these days....anyway,
>>  thankfully Dave included Michael's original post, so see replies below:
>> 
>>>    On 1/08/16 9:17 PM, Michael Shortt wrote:
>>>    Greetings,
>>> 
>>>    After gathering all my wheels in one place and a brief
>>    inventory today,
>>>    I have 21 Campy wheels,
>> 
>>>>> Uh...that's a lot. :>)
>> 
>>>    5 Single Slots and a mixture of the 4 Double Slots and Zero
>>    Triple
>>>    Slots ( No 10") Plus 2 sets of 17" Boyd Coddington Wheels made
>>    for Hall
>>>    Pantera.
>> 
>>>>> Uh, I don't think Coddington every made wheels for Hall?  He did
>>  make them for several other vendors, in several different styles, some
>>  markedly better than others.  Can you share some images perhaps to help
>>  in identification?
>>  Hall did have somebody cast up ten-spoke Si-looking wheels that were
>>  welded together, and perhaps Coddington was the source for those?
>> 
>>>>    And the 17" 10 spokes on the car now with 335/35 and 245/40.
>> 
>>>>> What kind of wheels are those?  10 spokes is a pretty vague
>>  descriiption--although I admit I'm pretty certain how many spokes they
>>  have at least. :>)
>> 
>>> 
>>>    I am keeping the 10 spokes with PZeros for Street use,
>>>    And one set of the 17" Hall Wheels with 315/235 Kumhos for
>>    Rally and
>>>    Track use.
>> 
>>>>> Wait--are you talking about Coddington Campagnolo clones, or Hall
>>  wheels which are three-piece, bolt-together affairs, with a fake center
>>  spinner?  Those are as different as chalk and cheese (with the latter
>>  being the only genuinely suspect/dangerous wheels I've ever
>>  encountered).
>> 
>>>    I will be keeping the Single Slots for Concours with skinny
>>    Blackwalls
>>>    and a set of Double Slots with Vintage Arrivas for Photos,
>>    With a spare
>>>    Front and a Spare Rear in case of a boo boo.
>> 
>>>>> Sounds good!
>> 
>>> 
>>>>    That leaves 2 full sets of double slot wheels to dispose of.
>>    Sell or
>>>    Trade. Photos Available.
>> 
>>>>> Somebody just asked for a set--Guy Dellavecchia?  What kind are
>>  they?  Guy might want to trade his '71 two-slot wheels for some L-model
>>  wheels?
>> 
>>>    I'd love a Triple Slot set. Anybody have some?
>> 
>>>>> I have only ever seen two of them (separately) in my life.  These
>>  were an experimental wheel used on the first pushmobile prototype.  I
>>  have no idea how many were put into production but I've never seen any
>>  other car wearing them, so I would have to imagine the number is very
>>  small indeed.  Even 1006, the earliest known Pantera extant, had single
>>  slot wheels.
>>  So don't hold your breath waiting for a full set of three-slot wheels
>>  to appear. :>)
>> 
>>> I will sort them this week by design, Thanks Mike Drew for the
>>    Campy
>>>    Wheel education.
>> 
>>>>> It's my pleasure, but at this point I'm far more concerned about
>>  your aftermarket wheels.  Simply put, I would never wish three-piece
>>  Hall wheels on my worst enemy, and especially not for track use.  We
>>  collectively know about multiple failures, which always led to rapid
>>  deflation and a potential accident.  Jack has often told of the car
>>  that was zorching down Mt. Charleston in Las Vegas at triple digit
>>  speeds one year when his Hall wheel dismantled himself; I believe it
>>  thrust the car into the scenery, but can't remember that aspect of the
>>  story for sure.  Jack?
>>  Larry Stock had a car on the grass at Concorso that he was trying to
>>  sell; a rear wheel simply blew apart while the car was parked (!) and
>>  he had to tow it back to Nevada as it couldn't be fixed--it had cracked
>>  halfway around.  The other three wheels had similar cracks when they
>>  were taken apart and inspected.
>>  And Mad Dog's fire was indirectly caused by the failure of his Hall
>>  wheel; when the left rear wheel failed, the car fell down onto the
>>  freeway in Los Angeles.  What wasn't seen was that during the collapse,
>>  the brake line was damaged.  MD swapped his stock wheels w/race tires
>>  on and ran the Silver State a day or two later, but when he stepped on
>>  the brakes at the finish line, the line ruptured, fluid sprayed onto
>>  the exhaust and the rest was history.
>>  And on and on and on...I'm sure there are many others.
>>  Those wheels were a very well-intentioned design but they were woefully
>>  under-engineered, and today should be related either to a display case,
>>  or a recycling bin IMHO....
>>  So tell me exactly what kind of wheels you're talking about here, as
>>  the Coddington wheels (which I have aesthetic problems with,
>>  admittedly) are nothing like these Hall wheels at all.
>> 
>>>>    Just let a local guy soda blast two of them down to the green
>>    primer,
>>>    I'll probably paint them Argent Silver and Clear them just to
>>    see the
>>>    final results.
>>>    Photo attached.
>> 
>>>>> Since I didn't get your original e-mail, I didn't get the photo
>>  either....
>>  Cheers!
>>  Mike
>> _______________________________________________
>> 
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>> 
>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use
>> the links above.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 11
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 22:53:34 +0100
> From: Charles McCall <charlesmccall at gmail.com>
> To: <MikeLDrew at aol.com>, <guson at home.se>, <gaino at earthlink.net>,
>    <detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> Message-ID: <00fd01d14e4c$dac3a170$904ae450$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="us-ascii"
> 
> I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems work by 
> pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple mechanical
'arm'
> that 
> is pulling on a mechanical parking brake?  Does anybody know that for
sure?
> ****Audis use a mechanical parking brake actuated by a solenoid - the
second
> case. They do not pressurize the fluid in the line. They have some
> electronics to ease the brake on if you are moving, but actuating it at
any
> speed locks up your brakes. They are either on or off. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 12
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 14:02:11 -0800
> From: "Tomas Gunnarsson" <guson at home.se>
> To: <charlesmccall at gmail.com>
> Cc: <detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> Message-ID: <72F2415F8F0A41A0BC5857747006BB5D at mail2world.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> It is more likely a linear actuator driven by a motor. A solenoid would
> not be good as it would need to draw current for the whole time the
> brakes are on. You can probably hear the motor whine when you flip the
> switch (or whatever) and then it goes silent when the brakes are on/off.
> Where there's legislation requiring a parking brake it's usually also a
> requirement that it's mechanically actuated, hydraulics are not allowed.
> 
> Tomas
> 
> 
> 
> <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
> 
>        From: Charles McCall [charlesmccall at gmail.com]
> Sent: 13/1/2016 10:53:34 PM
> To:
> MikeLDrew at aol.com;guson at home.se;gaino at earthlink.net;detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes 
> 
> I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems work by 
> pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple mechanical
> 'arm' 
> that 
> is pulling on a mechanical parking brake? Does anybody know that for
> sure? 
> ****Audis use a mechanical parking brake actuated by a solenoid - the
> second 
> case. They do not pressurize the fluid in the line. They have some 
> electronics to ease the brake on if you are moving, but actuating it at
> any 
> speed locks up your brakes. They are either on or off. 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ 
> 
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA 
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes 
> DeTomaso mailing list 
> DeTomaso at poca.com 
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com 
> 
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> use the links above. 
> . 
>    
> -------------- next part --------------
>  It is more likely a linear actuator driven by a motor. A solenoid would
>  not be good as it would need to draw current for the whole time the
>  brakes are on. You can probably hear the motor whine when you flip the
>  switch (or whatever) and then it goes silent when the brakes are
>  on/off. Where there's legislation requiring a parking brake it's
>  usually also a requirement that it's mechanically actuated, hydraulics
>  are not allowed.
> 
>  Tomas
>  <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
>      From: Charles McCall [charlesmccall at gmail.com]
>  Sent: 13/1/2016 10:53:34 PM
>  To:
>  MikeLDrew at aol.com;guson at home.se;gaino at earthlink.net;detomaso at poca.com
>  Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
>  I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems work by
>  pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple mechanical
>  'arm'
>  that
>  is pulling on a mechanical parking brake? Does anybody know that for
>  sure?
>  ****Audis use a mechanical parking brake actuated by a solenoid - the
>  second
>  case. They do not pressurize the fluid in the line. They have some
>  electronics to ease the brake on if you are moving, but actuating it at
>  any
>  speed locks up your brakes. They are either on or off.
>  _______________________________________________
>  Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>  Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>  DeTomaso mailing list
>  DeTomaso at poca.com
>  http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>  To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
>  use the links above.
>  .
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 13
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 23:04:27 +0100
> From: Charles McCall <charlesmccall at gmail.com>
> To: "'Tomas Gunnarsson'" <guson at home.se>
> Cc: <detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> Message-ID: <010701d14e4e$5fc90440$1f5b0cc0$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> Sorry, you are correct that it is a linear actuator. I answered quickly.
In
> any case, it is a mechanical actuator and not pressurizing the hydraulic
> line. 
> 
> 
> 
> From: Tomas Gunnarsson [mailto:guson at home.se] 
> Sent: mi?rcoles, 13 de enero de 2016 23:02
> To: charlesmccall at gmail.com
> Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> 
> 
> 
> It is more likely a linear actuator driven by a motor. A solenoid would
not
> be good as it would need to draw current for the whole time the brakes are
> on. You can probably hear the motor whine when you flip the switch (or
> whatever) and then it goes silent when the brakes are on/off. Where
there's
> legislation requiring a parking brake it's usually also a requirement that
> it's mechanically actuated, hydraulics are not allowed.
> 
> 
> 
> Tomas
> 
> 
> 
> <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: Charles McCall [charlesmccall at gmail.com]
> Sent: 13/1/2016 10:53:34 PM
> To: MikeLDrew at aol.com;guson at home.se;gaino at earthlink.net;detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes 
> 
> I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems work by 
> pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple mechanical
'arm'
> 
> that 
> is pulling on a mechanical parking brake? Does anybody know that for sure?

> ****Audis use a mechanical parking brake actuated by a solenoid - the
second
> 
> case. They do not pressurize the fluid in the line. They have some 
> electronics to ease the brake on if you are moving, but actuating it at
any 
> speed locks up your brakes. They are either on or off. 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ 
> 
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA 
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes 
> DeTomaso mailing list 
> DeTomaso at poca.com 
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com 
> 
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use
> the links above. 
> . 
> 
> 
> 
> -------------- next part --------------
>  Sorry, you are correct that it is a linear actuator. I answered
>  quickly. In any case, it is a mechanical actuator and not pressurizing
>  the hydraulic line.
> 
> 
>  From: Tomas Gunnarsson [mailto:guson at home.se]
>  Sent: miercoles, 13 de enero de 2016 23:02
>  To: charlesmccall at gmail.com
>  Cc: detomaso at poca.com
>  Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> 
> 
>  It is more likely a linear actuator driven by a motor. A solenoid would
>  not be good as it would need to draw current for the whole time the
>  brakes are on. You can probably hear the motor whine when you flip the
>  switch (or whatever) and then it goes silent when the brakes are
>  on/off. Where there's legislation requiring a parking brake it's
>  usually also a requirement that it's mechanically actuated, hydraulics
>  are not allowed.
> 
> 
>  Tomas
> 
>  <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
> 
> 
> 
>  From: Charles McCall [charlesmccall at gmail.com]
>  Sent: 13/1/2016 10:53:34 PM
>  To:
>  [1]MikeLDrew at aol.com;guson at home.se;gaino at earthlink.net;detomaso at poca.co
>  m
>  Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
>  I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems work by
>  pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple mechanical
>  'arm'
>  that
>  is pulling on a mechanical parking brake? Does anybody know that for
>  sure?
>  ****Audis use a mechanical parking brake actuated by a solenoid - the
>  second
>  case. They do not pressurize the fluid in the line. They have some
>  electronics to ease the brake on if you are moving, but actuating it at
>  any
>  speed locks up your brakes. They are either on or off.
>  _______________________________________________
>  Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>  Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>  DeTomaso mailing list
>  [2]DeTomaso at poca.com
>  [3]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>  To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
>  use the links above.
>  .
> 
> References
> 
>  1.
mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com;guson at home.se;gaino at earthlink.net;detomaso at poca.com
>  2. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>  3. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 14
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 23:09:38 +0100
> From: Thomas Tornblom <thomas at hax.se>
> To: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> Message-ID: <5696CB22.5070902 at hax.se>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
> 
> I believe VW electric parking brake have an electric motor directly on 
> the caliper, no cables.
> 
> 
> Den 2016-01-13 22:53, Charles McCall skrev:
>> I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems work by
>> pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple mechanical
'arm'
>> that
>> is pulling on a mechanical parking brake?  Does anybody know that for
sure?
>> ****Audis use a mechanical parking brake actuated by a solenoid - the
second
>> case. They do not pressurize the fluid in the line. They have some
>> electronics to ease the brake on if you are moving, but actuating it at
any
>> speed locks up your brakes. They are either on or off.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> 
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>> 
>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use
the links above.
>> 
>> !DSPAM:5696c7e73519021468!
> 
> 
> -- 
> Real life:  Thomas T?rnblom            Email:      thomas at hax.se
> Snail mail:  Banvallsv?gen 14            Phone:    +46 18 32 31 18
>              S - 754 40 Uppsala, Sweden  Mobile:  +46 76 209 8320
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 15
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 22:15:16 +0000 (UTC)
> From: marshall smith <marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
> To: <davel at emspace.com>, <detomaso at poca.com>,
>    <michael at michaelshortt.com>,    <MikeLDrew at aol.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Campagnolo Wheels
> Message-ID:
>    <621399975.3851038.1452723316243.JavaMail.yahoo at mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> 
> FYI....
> 
> I have 17 inch Hall 10 spoke wheels. They have welded centers and came
with a center hub that had a dummy spinner and cone that covered the lug
nuts or you could delete the cone and go with exposed lug nuts.
> I was told that Boyd made these. Hall called them Mark 10s as I recall.
> 
> Marshall
> --------------------------------------------
> On Wed, 1/13/16, Mike Drew via DeTomaso <detomaso at poca.com> wrote:
> 
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Campagnolo Wheels
> To: davel at emspace.com, detomaso at poca.com, michael at michaelshortt.com
> Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2016, 12:19 PM
> 
> ???In a message dated
> 1/10/16 21 39 38, davel at emspace.com
> writes:
> 
> ? ???My 17" Hall wheels are a lot
> heavier than the mags.
> ? ???I think that's fine for street, but
> aren't you concerned about the
> ? ???unsprung weight for track use?
> ? ???dave
> 
> ???>>>Interesting.? This was
> apparently a reply to an original post by
> ???Michael Shortt, but that post never came
> through to me nor did it wind
> ???up in my spam folder?
> ???I'm noting some irregularities with the
> forum these days....anyway,
> ???thankfully Dave included Michael's
> original post, so see replies below:
> 
> ? ???On 1/08/16 9:17 PM, Michael Shortt
> wrote:
> ? ???>?
> ???Greetings,
> ? ???>
> ? ???>? ???After
> gathering all my wheels in one place and a brief
> ? ???inventory today,
> ? ???>? ???I have
> 21 Campy wheels,
> 
> ???>>>Uh...that's a lot. :>)
> 
> ? ???>? ???5
> Single Slots and a mixture of the 4 Double Slots and Zero
> ? ???Triple
> ? ???>? ???Slots
> ( No 10") Plus 2 sets of 17" Boyd Coddington Wheels made
> ? ???for Hall
> ? ???>?
> ???Pantera.
> 
> ???>>>Uh, I don't think Coddington
> every made wheels for Hall?? He did
> ???make them for several other vendors, in
> several different styles, some
> ???markedly better than others.? Can you
> share some images perhaps to help
> ???in identification?
> ???Hall did have somebody cast up ten-spoke
> Si-looking wheels that were
> ???welded together, and perhaps Coddington
> was the source for those?
> 
> ? ???>>?
> ???And the 17" 10 spokes on the car now with
> 335/35 and 245/40.
> 
> ???>>>What kind of wheels are
> those?? 10 spokes is a pretty vague
> ???descriiption--although I admit I'm pretty
> certain how many spokes they
> ???have at least. :>)
> 
> ? ???>
> ? ???>? ???I am
> keeping the 10 spokes with PZeros for Street use,
> ? ???>? ???And
> one set of the 17" Hall Wheels with 315/235 Kumhos for
> ? ???Rally and
> ? ???>? ???Track
> use.
> 
> ???>>>Wait--are you talking about
> Coddington Campagnolo clones, or Hall
> ???wheels which are three-piece,
> bolt-together affairs, with a fake center
> ???spinner?? Those are as different as
> chalk and cheese (with the latter
> ???being the only genuinely suspect/dangerous
> wheels I've ever
> ???encountered).
> 
> ? ???>? ???I will
> be keeping the Single Slots for Concours with skinny
> ? ???Blackwalls
> ? ???>? ???and a
> set of Double Slots with Vintage Arrivas for Photos,
> ? ???With a spare
> ? ???>? ???Front
> and a Spare Rear in case of a boo boo.
> 
> ???>>>Sounds good!
> 
> ? ???>
> ? ???>>?
> ???That leaves 2 full sets of double slot
> wheels to dispose of.
> ? ???Sell or
> ? ???>? ???Trade.
> Photos Available.
> 
> ???>>>Somebody just asked for a
> set--Guy Dellavecchia?? What kind are
> ???they?? Guy might want to trade his
> '71 two-slot wheels for some L-model
> ???wheels?
> 
> ? ???>? ???I'd
> love a Triple Slot set. Anybody have some?
> 
> ???>>>I have only ever seen two of
> them (separately) in my life.? These
> ???were an experimental wheel used on the
> first pushmobile prototype.? I
> ???have no idea how many were put into
> production but I've never seen any
> ???other car wearing them, so I would have to
> imagine the number is very
> ???small indeed.? Even 1006, the
> earliest known Pantera extant, had single
> ???slot wheels.
> ???So don't hold your breath waiting for a
> full set of three-slot wheels
> ???to appear. :>)
> 
> ? ???>I will sort them this week by
> design, Thanks Mike Drew for the
> ? ???Campy
> ? ???>? ???Wheel
> education.
> 
> ???>>>It's my pleasure, but at this
> point I'm far more concerned about
> ???your aftermarket wheels.? Simply put,
> I would never wish three-piece
> ???Hall wheels on my worst enemy, and
> especially not for track use.? We
> ???collectively know about multiple failures,
> which always led to rapid
> ???deflation and a potential accident.?
> Jack has often told of the car
> ???that was zorching down Mt. Charleston in
> Las Vegas at triple digit
> ???speeds one year when his Hall wheel
> dismantled himself; I believe it
> ???thrust the car into the scenery, but can't
> remember that aspect of the
> ???story for sure.? Jack?
> ???Larry Stock had a car on the grass at
> Concorso that he was trying to
> ???sell; a rear wheel simply blew apart while
> the car was parked (!) and
> ???he had to tow it back to Nevada as it
> couldn't be fixed--it had cracked
> ???halfway around.? The other three
> wheels had similar cracks when they
> ???were taken apart and inspected.
> ???And Mad Dog's fire was indirectly caused
> by the failure of his Hall
> ???wheel; when the left rear wheel failed,
> the car fell down onto the
> ???freeway in Los Angeles.? What wasn't
> seen was that during the collapse,
> ???the brake line was damaged.? MD
> swapped his stock wheels w/race tires
> ???on and ran the Silver State a day or two
> later, but when he stepped on
> ???the brakes at the finish line, the line
> ruptured, fluid sprayed onto
> ???the exhaust and the rest was history.
> ???And on and on and on...I'm sure there are
> many others.
> ???Those wheels were a very well-intentioned
> design but they were woefully
> ???under-engineered, and today should be
> related either to a display case,
> ???or a recycling bin IMHO....
> ???So tell me exactly what kind of wheels
> you're talking about here, as
> ???the Coddington wheels (which I have
> aesthetic problems with,
> ???admittedly) are nothing like these Hall
> wheels at all.
> 
> ? ???>>?
> ???Just let a local guy soda blast two of
> them down to the green
> ? ???primer,
> ? ???>? ???I'll
> probably paint them Argent Silver and Clear them just to
> ? ???see the
> ? ???>? ???final
> results.
> ? ???>? ???Photo
> attached.
> ? ???>
> 
> ???>>>Since I didn't get your
> original e-mail, I didn't get the photo
> ???either....
> ???Cheers!
> ???Mike
> 
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 
> To manage your subscription (change email address,
> unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 16
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 22:24:18 +0000 (UTC)
> From: marshall smith <marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
> To: <davel at emspace.com>, <detomaso at poca.com>,
>    <michael at michaelshortt.com>,    <MikeLDrew at aol.com>, marshall smith
>    <marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Campagnolo Wheels
> Message-ID:
>    <1003982879.3795306.1452723858144.JavaMail.yahoo at mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> 
> Additionally....Hall's 10 spoke wheels have the spokes slanted slightly
inboard or towards the suspension. I believe Wilkinson made a 10 spoke wheel
where the spokes slant outward. These are visually better looking giving  a
semi dished look and have slightly rounded spokes where the Hall's have
sharp edged spokes.
> 
> M 
> --------------------------------------------
> On Wed, 1/13/16, marshall smith <marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> 
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Campagnolo Wheels
> To: davel at emspace.com, detomaso at poca.com, michael at michaelshortt.com,
MikeLDrew at aol.com
> Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2016, 2:15 PM
> 
> FYI....
> 
> I have 17 inch Hall 10 spoke wheels. They have welded
> centers and came with a center hub that had a dummy spinner
> and cone that covered the lug nuts or you could delete the
> cone and go with exposed lug nuts.
> I was told that Boyd made these. Hall called them Mark 10s
> as I recall.
> 
> Marshall
> --------------------------------------------
> On Wed, 1/13/16, Mike Drew via DeTomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
> wrote:
> 
>  Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Campagnolo Wheels
>  To: davel at emspace.com,
> detomaso at poca.com,
> michael at michaelshortt.com
>  Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2016, 12:19 PM
> 
>  ???In a message dated
>  1/10/16 21 39 38, davel at emspace.com
>  writes:
> 
>  ? ???My 17" Hall wheels are a lot
>  heavier than the mags.
>  ? ???I think that's fine for street, but
>  aren't you concerned about the
>  ? ???unsprung weight for track use?
>  ? ???dave
> 
>  ???>>>Interesting.? This was
>  apparently a reply to an original post by
>  ???Michael Shortt, but that post never came
>  through to me nor did it wind
>  ???up in my spam folder?
>  ???I'm noting some irregularities with the
>  forum these days....anyway,
>  ???thankfully Dave included Michael's
>  original post, so see replies below:
> 
>  ? ???On 1/08/16 9:17 PM, Michael Shortt
>  wrote:
>  ? ???>?
>  ???Greetings,
>  ? ???>
>  ? ???>? ???After
>  gathering all my wheels in one place and a brief
>  ? ???inventory today,
>  ? ???>? ???I have
>  21 Campy wheels,
> 
>  ???>>>Uh...that's a lot. :>)
> 
>  ? ???>? ???5
>  Single Slots and a mixture of the 4 Double Slots and Zero
>  ? ???Triple
>  ? ???>? ???Slots
>  ( No 10") Plus 2 sets of 17" Boyd Coddington Wheels made
>  ? ???for Hall
>  ? ???>?
>  ???Pantera.
> 
>  ???>>>Uh, I don't think Coddington
>  every made wheels for Hall?? He did
>  ???make them for several other vendors, in
>  several different styles, some
>  ???markedly better than others.? Can you
>  share some images perhaps to help
>  ???in identification?
>  ???Hall did have somebody cast up ten-spoke
>  Si-looking wheels that were
>  ???welded together, and perhaps Coddington
>  was the source for those?
> 
>  ? ???>>?
>  ???And the 17" 10 spokes on the car now with
>  335/35 and 245/40.
> 
>  ???>>>What kind of wheels are
>  those?? 10 spokes is a pretty vague
>  ???descriiption--although I admit I'm pretty
>  certain how many spokes they
>  ???have at least. :>)
> 
>  ? ???>
>  ? ???>? ???I am
>  keeping the 10 spokes with PZeros for Street use,
>  ? ???>? ???And
>  one set of the 17" Hall Wheels with 315/235 Kumhos for
>  ? ???Rally and
>  ? ???>? ???Track
>  use.
> 
>  ???>>>Wait--are you talking about
>  Coddington Campagnolo clones, or Hall
>  ???wheels which are three-piece,
>  bolt-together affairs, with a fake center
>  ???spinner?? Those are as different as
>  chalk and cheese (with the latter
>  ???being the only genuinely suspect/dangerous
>  wheels I've ever
>  ???encountered).
> 
>  ? ???>? ???I will
>  be keeping the Single Slots for Concours with skinny
>  ? ???Blackwalls
>  ? ???>? ???and a
>  set of Double Slots with Vintage Arrivas for Photos,
>  ? ???With a spare
>  ? ???>? ???Front
>  and a Spare Rear in case of a boo boo.
> 
>  ???>>>Sounds good!
> 
>  ? ???>
>  ? ???>>?
>  ???That leaves 2 full sets of double slot
>  wheels to dispose of.
>  ? ???Sell or
>  ? ???>? ???Trade.
>  Photos Available.
> 
>  ???>>>Somebody just asked for a
>  set--Guy Dellavecchia?? What kind are
>  ???they?? Guy might want to trade his
>  '71 two-slot wheels for some L-model
>  ???wheels?
> 
>  ? ???>? ???I'd
>  love a Triple Slot set. Anybody have some?
> 
>  ???>>>I have only ever seen two of
>  them (separately) in my life.? These
>  ???were an experimental wheel used on the
>  first pushmobile prototype.? I
>  ???have no idea how many were put into
>  production but I've never seen any
>  ???other car wearing them, so I would have to
>  imagine the number is very
>  ???small indeed.? Even 1006, the
>  earliest known Pantera extant, had single
>  ???slot wheels.
>  ???So don't hold your breath waiting for a
>  full set of three-slot wheels
>  ???to appear. :>)
> 
>  ? ???>I will sort them this week by
>  design, Thanks Mike Drew for the
>  ? ???Campy
>  ? ???>? ???Wheel
>  education.
> 
>  ???>>>It's my pleasure, but at this
>  point I'm far more concerned about
>  ???your aftermarket wheels.? Simply put,
>  I would never wish three-piece
>  ???Hall wheels on my worst enemy, and
>  especially not for track use.? We
>  ???collectively know about multiple failures,
>  which always led to rapid
>  ???deflation and a potential accident.?
>  Jack has often told of the car
>  ???that was zorching down Mt. Charleston in
>  Las Vegas at triple digit
>  ???speeds one year when his Hall wheel
>  dismantled himself; I believe it
>  ???thrust the car into the scenery, but can't
>  remember that aspect of the
>  ???story for sure.? Jack?
>  ???Larry Stock had a car on the grass at
>  Concorso that he was trying to
>  ???sell; a rear wheel simply blew apart while
>  the car was parked (!) and
>  ???he had to tow it back to Nevada as it
>  couldn't be fixed--it had cracked
>  ???halfway around.? The other three
>  wheels had similar cracks when they
>  ???were taken apart and inspected.
>  ???And Mad Dog's fire was indirectly caused
>  by the failure of his Hall
>  ???wheel; when the left rear wheel failed,
>  the car fell down onto the
>  ???freeway in Los Angeles.? What wasn't
>  seen was that during the collapse,
>  ???the brake line was damaged.? MD
>  swapped his stock wheels w/race tires
>  ???on and ran the Silver State a day or two
>  later, but when he stepped on
>  ???the brakes at the finish line, the line
>  ruptured, fluid sprayed onto
>  ???the exhaust and the rest was history.
>  ???And on and on and on...I'm sure there are
>  many others.
>  ???Those wheels were a very well-intentioned
>  design but they were woefully
>  ???under-engineered, and today should be
>  related either to a display case,
>  ???or a recycling bin IMHO....
>  ???So tell me exactly what kind of wheels
>  you're talking about here, as
>  ???the Coddington wheels (which I have
>  aesthetic problems with,
>  ???admittedly) are nothing like these Hall
>  wheels at all.
> 
>  ? ???>>?
>  ???Just let a local guy soda blast two of
>  them down to the green
>  ? ???primer,
>  ? ???>? ???I'll
>  probably paint them Argent Silver and Clear them just to
>  ? ???see the
>  ? ???>? ???final
>  results.
>  ? ???>? ???Photo
>  attached.
>  ? ???>
> 
>  ???>>>Since I didn't get your
>  original e-mail, I didn't get the photo
>  ???either....
>  ???Cheers!
>  ???Mike
> 
>  -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
> 
>  _______________________________________________
> 
>  Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>  Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>  DeTomaso mailing list
>  DeTomaso at poca.com
>  http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 
>  To manage your subscription (change email address,
>  unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 
> To manage your subscription (change email address,
> unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 17
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 17:44:23 -0500
> From: Michael Shortt <michaelsavga at gmail.com>
> To: marshall smith <marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>, detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Campagnolo Wheels
> Message-ID:
>    <CAEWtxWoBoP_w8V4hEH2fJDsmEVnwB4ueWkX8rJqC7R-FWTFj0A at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Marshall,
> 
> I have those too, considered having them Powdercoated, but the center
> treatment would look silly. I have both the spinners and the big black
> lugs. The other set is the 5 spoke from Hall/Boyd.
> 
> Michael Shortt
> On Jan 13, 2016 5:15 PM, "marshall smith" <marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
> 
>> FYI....
>> 
>> I have 17 inch Hall 10 spoke wheels. They have welded centers and came
>> with a center hub that had a dummy spinner and cone that covered the lug
>> nuts or you could delete the cone and go with exposed lug nuts.
>> I was told that Boyd made these. Hall called them Mark 10s as I recall.
>> 
>> Marshall
>> --------------------------------------------
>> On Wed, 1/13/16, Mike Drew via DeTomaso <detomaso at poca.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Campagnolo Wheels
>> To: davel at emspace.com, detomaso at poca.com, michael at michaelshortt.com
>> Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2016, 12:19 PM
>> 
>>    In a message dated
>> 1/10/16 21 39 38, davel at emspace.com
>> writes:
>> 
>>      My 17" Hall wheels are a lot
>> heavier than the mags.
>>      I think that's fine for street, but
>> aren't you concerned about the
>>      unsprung weight for track use?
>>      dave
>> 
>>>>> Interesting.  This was
>> apparently a reply to an original post by
>>    Michael Shortt, but that post never came
>> through to me nor did it wind
>>    up in my spam folder?
>>    I'm noting some irregularities with the
>> forum these days....anyway,
>>    thankfully Dave included Michael's
>> original post, so see replies below:
>> 
>>      On 1/08/16 9:17 PM, Michael Shortt
>> wrote:
>>    Greetings,
>>> 
>>>    After
>> gathering all my wheels in one place and a brief
>>      inventory today,
>>>    I have
>> 21 Campy wheels,
>> 
>>>>> Uh...that's a lot. :>)
>> 
>>>    5
>> Single Slots and a mixture of the 4 Double Slots and Zero
>>      Triple
>>>    Slots
>> ( No 10") Plus 2 sets of 17" Boyd Coddington Wheels made
>>      for Hall
>>    Pantera.
>> 
>>>>> Uh, I don't think Coddington
>> every made wheels for Hall?  He did
>>    make them for several other vendors, in
>> several different styles, some
>>    markedly better than others.  Can you
>> share some images perhaps to help
>>    in identification?
>>    Hall did have somebody cast up ten-spoke
>> Si-looking wheels that were
>>    welded together, and perhaps Coddington
>> was the source for those?
>> 
>>    And the 17" 10 spokes on the car now with
>> 335/35 and 245/40.
>> 
>>>>> What kind of wheels are
>> those?  10 spokes is a pretty vague
>>    descriiption--although I admit I'm pretty
>> certain how many spokes they
>>    have at least. :>)
>> 
>>> 
>>>    I am
>> keeping the 10 spokes with PZeros for Street use,
>>>    And
>> one set of the 17" Hall Wheels with 315/235 Kumhos for
>>      Rally and
>>>    Track
>> use.
>> 
>>>>> Wait--are you talking about
>> Coddington Campagnolo clones, or Hall
>>    wheels which are three-piece,
>> bolt-together affairs, with a fake center
>>    spinner?  Those are as different as
>> chalk and cheese (with the latter
>>    being the only genuinely suspect/dangerous
>> wheels I've ever
>>    encountered).
>> 
>>>    I will
>> be keeping the Single Slots for Concours with skinny
>>      Blackwalls
>>>    and a
>> set of Double Slots with Vintage Arrivas for Photos,
>>      With a spare
>>>    Front
>> and a Spare Rear in case of a boo boo.
>> 
>>>>> Sounds good!
>> 
>>> 
>>    That leaves 2 full sets of double slot
>> wheels to dispose of.
>>      Sell or
>>>    Trade.
>> Photos Available.
>> 
>>>>> Somebody just asked for a
>> set--Guy Dellavecchia?  What kind are
>>    they?  Guy might want to trade his
>> '71 two-slot wheels for some L-model
>>    wheels?
>> 
>>>    I'd
>> love a Triple Slot set. Anybody have some?
>> 
>>>>> I have only ever seen two of
>> them (separately) in my life.  These
>>    were an experimental wheel used on the
>> first pushmobile prototype.  I
>>    have no idea how many were put into
>> production but I've never seen any
>>    other car wearing them, so I would have to
>> imagine the number is very
>>    small indeed.  Even 1006, the
>> earliest known Pantera extant, had single
>>    slot wheels.
>>    So don't hold your breath waiting for a
>> full set of three-slot wheels
>>    to appear. :>)
>> 
>>> I will sort them this week by
>> design, Thanks Mike Drew for the
>>      Campy
>>>    Wheel
>> education.
>> 
>>>>> It's my pleasure, but at this
>> point I'm far more concerned about
>>    your aftermarket wheels.  Simply put,
>> I would never wish three-piece
>>    Hall wheels on my worst enemy, and
>> especially not for track use.  We
>>    collectively know about multiple failures,
>> which always led to rapid
>>    deflation and a potential accident.
>> Jack has often told of the car
>>    that was zorching down Mt. Charleston in
>> Las Vegas at triple digit
>>    speeds one year when his Hall wheel
>> dismantled himself; I believe it
>>    thrust the car into the scenery, but can't
>> remember that aspect of the
>>    story for sure.  Jack?
>>    Larry Stock had a car on the grass at
>> Concorso that he was trying to
>>    sell; a rear wheel simply blew apart while
>> the car was parked (!) and
>>    he had to tow it back to Nevada as it
>> couldn't be fixed--it had cracked
>>    halfway around.  The other three
>> wheels had similar cracks when they
>>    were taken apart and inspected.
>>    And Mad Dog's fire was indirectly caused
>> by the failure of his Hall
>>    wheel; when the left rear wheel failed,
>> the car fell down onto the
>>    freeway in Los Angeles.  What wasn't
>> seen was that during the collapse,
>>    the brake line was damaged.  MD
>> swapped his stock wheels w/race tires
>>    on and ran the Silver State a day or two
>> later, but when he stepped on
>>    the brakes at the finish line, the line
>> ruptured, fluid sprayed onto
>>    the exhaust and the rest was history.
>>    And on and on and on...I'm sure there are
>> many others.
>>    Those wheels were a very well-intentioned
>> design but they were woefully
>>    under-engineered, and today should be
>> related either to a display case,
>>    or a recycling bin IMHO....
>>    So tell me exactly what kind of wheels
>> you're talking about here, as
>>    the Coddington wheels (which I have
>> aesthetic problems with,
>>    admittedly) are nothing like these Hall
>> wheels at all.
>> 
>>    Just let a local guy soda blast two of
>> them down to the green
>>      primer,
>>>    I'll
>> probably paint them Argent Silver and Clear them just to
>>      see the
>>>    final
>> results.
>>>    Photo
>> attached.
>> 
>>>>> Since I didn't get your
>> original e-mail, I didn't get the photo
>>    either....
>>    Cheers!
>>    Mike
>> 
>> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> 
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>> 
>> To manage your subscription (change email address,
>> unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
> -------------- next part --------------
>  Marshall,
> 
>  I have those too, considered having them Powdercoated, but the center
>  treatment would look silly. I have both the spinners and the big black
>  lugs. The other set is the 5 spoke from Hall/Boyd.
> 
>  Michael Shortt
> 
>  On Jan 13, 2016 5:15 PM, "marshall smith"
>  <[1]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> 
>    FYI....
>    I have 17 inch Hall 10 spoke wheels. They have welded centers and
>    came with a center hub that had a dummy spinner and cone that
>    covered the lug nuts or you could delete the cone and go with
>    exposed lug nuts.
>    I was told that Boyd made these. Hall called them Mark 10s as I
>    recall.
>    Marshall
>    --------------------------------------------
>    On Wed, 1/13/16, Mike Drew via DeTomaso <[2]detomaso at poca.com>
>    wrote:
>    A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Campagnolo Wheels
>    A To: [3]davel at emspace.com, [4]detomaso at poca.com,
>    [5]michael at michaelshortt.com
>    A Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2016, 12:19 PM
>    A A A A In a message dated
>    A 1/10/16 21 39 38, [6]davel at emspace.com
>    A writes:
>    A A  A A A My 17" Hall wheels are a lot
>    A heavier than the mags.
>    A A  A A A I think that's fine for street, but
>    A aren't you concerned about the
>    A A  A A A unsprung weight for track use?
>    A A  A A A dave
>    A A A A >>>Interesting.A  This was
>    A apparently a reply to an original post by
>    A A A A Michael Shortt, but that post never came
>    A through to me nor did it wind
>    A A A A up in my spam folder?
>    A A A A I'm noting some irregularities with the
>    A forum these days....anyway,
>    A A A A thankfully Dave included Michael's
>    A original post, so see replies below:
>    A A  A A A On 1/08/16 9:17 PM, Michael Shortt
>    A wrote:
>    A A  A A A >A
>    A A A A Greetings,
>    A A  A A A >
>    A A  A A A >A  A A A After
>    A gathering all my wheels in one place and a brief
>    A A  A A A inventory today,
>    A A  A A A >A  A A A I have
>    A 21 Campy wheels,
>    A A A A >>>Uh...that's a lot. :>)
>    A A  A A A >A  A A A 5
>    A Single Slots and a mixture of the 4 Double Slots and Zero
>    A A  A A A Triple
>    A A  A A A >A  A A A Slots
>    A ( No 10") Plus 2 sets of 17" Boyd Coddington Wheels made
>    A A  A A A for Hall
>    A A  A A A >A
>    A A A A Pantera.
>    A A A A >>>Uh, I don't think Coddington
>    A every made wheels for Hall?A  He did
>    A A A A make them for several other vendors, in
>    A several different styles, some
>    A A A A markedly better than others.A  Can you
>    A share some images perhaps to help
>    A A A A in identification?
>    A A A A Hall did have somebody cast up ten-spoke
>    A Si-looking wheels that were
>    A A A A welded together, and perhaps Coddington
>    A was the source for those?
>    A A  A A A >>A
>    A A A A And the 17" 10 spokes on the car now with
>    A 335/35 and 245/40.
>    A A A A >>>What kind of wheels are
>    A those?A  10 spokes is a pretty vague
>    A A A A descriiption--although I admit I'm pretty
>    A certain how many spokes they
>    A A A A have at least. :>)
>    A A  A A A >
>    A A  A A A >A  A A A I am
>    A keeping the 10 spokes with PZeros for Street use,
>    A A  A A A >A  A A A And
>    A one set of the 17" Hall Wheels with 315/235 Kumhos for
>    A A  A A A Rally and
>    A A  A A A >A  A A A Track
>    A use.
>    A A A A >>>Wait--are you talking about
>    A Coddington Campagnolo clones, or Hall
>    A A A A wheels which are three-piece,
>    A bolt-together affairs, with a fake center
>    A A A A spinner?A  Those are as different as
>    A chalk and cheese (with the latter
>    A A A A being the only genuinely suspect/dangerous
>    A wheels I've ever
>    A A A A encountered).
>    A A  A A A >A  A A A I will
>    A be keeping the Single Slots for Concours with skinny
>    A A  A A A Blackwalls
>    A A  A A A >A  A A A and a
>    A set of Double Slots with Vintage Arrivas for Photos,
>    A A  A A A With a spare
>    A A  A A A >A  A A A Front
>    A and a Spare Rear in case of a boo boo.
>    A A A A >>>Sounds good!
>    A A  A A A >
>    A A  A A A >>A
>    A A A A That leaves 2 full sets of double slot
>    A wheels to dispose of.
>    A A  A A A Sell or
>    A A  A A A >A  A A A Trade.
>    A Photos Available.
>    A A A A >>>Somebody just asked for a
>    A set--Guy Dellavecchia?A  What kind are
>    A A A A they?A  Guy might want to trade his
>    A '71 two-slot wheels for some L-model
>    A A A A wheels?
>    A A  A A A >A  A A A I'd
>    A love a Triple Slot set. Anybody have some?
>    A A A A >>>I have only ever seen two of
>    A them (separately) in my life.A  These
>    A A A A were an experimental wheel used on the
>    A first pushmobile prototype.A  I
>    A A A A have no idea how many were put into
>    A production but I've never seen any
>    A A A A other car wearing them, so I would have to
>    A imagine the number is very
>    A A A A small indeed.A  Even 1006, the
>    A earliest known Pantera extant, had single
>    A A A A slot wheels.
>    A A A A So don't hold your breath waiting for a
>    A full set of three-slot wheels
>    A A A A to appear. :>)
>    A A  A A A >I will sort them this week by
>    A design, Thanks Mike Drew for the
>    A A  A A A Campy
>    A A  A A A >A  A A A Wheel
>    A education.
>    A A A A >>>It's my pleasure, but at this
>    A point I'm far more concerned about
>    A A A A your aftermarket wheels.A  Simply put,
>    A I would never wish three-piece
>    A A A A Hall wheels on my worst enemy, and
>    A especially not for track use.A  We
>    A A A A collectively know about multiple failures,
>    A which always led to rapid
>    A A A A deflation and a potential accident.A
>    A Jack has often told of the car
>    A A A A that was zorching down Mt. Charleston in
>    A Las Vegas at triple digit
>    A A A A speeds one year when his Hall wheel
>    A dismantled himself; I believe it
>    A A A A thrust the car into the scenery, but can't
>    A remember that aspect of the
>    A A A A story for sure.A  Jack?
>    A A A A Larry Stock had a car on the grass at
>    A Concorso that he was trying to
>    A A A A sell; a rear wheel simply blew apart while
>    A the car was parked (!) and
>    A A A A he had to tow it back to Nevada as it
>    A couldn't be fixed--it had cracked
>    A A A A halfway around.A  The other three
>    A wheels had similar cracks when they
>    A A A A were taken apart and inspected.
>    A A A A And Mad Dog's fire was indirectly caused
>    A by the failure of his Hall
>    A A A A wheel; when the left rear wheel failed,
>    A the car fell down onto the
>    A A A A freeway in Los Angeles.A  What wasn't
>    A seen was that during the collapse,
>    A A A A the brake line was damaged.A  MD
>    A swapped his stock wheels w/race tires
>    A A A A on and ran the Silver State a day or two
>    A later, but when he stepped on
>    A A A A the brakes at the finish line, the line
>    A ruptured, fluid sprayed onto
>    A A A A the exhaust and the rest was history.
>    A A A A And on and on and on...I'm sure there are
>    A many others.
>    A A A A Those wheels were a very well-intentioned
>    A design but they were woefully
>    A A A A under-engineered, and today should be
>    A related either to a display case,
>    A A A A or a recycling bin IMHO....
>    A A A A So tell me exactly what kind of wheels
>    A you're talking about here, as
>    A A A A the Coddington wheels (which I have
>    A aesthetic problems with,
>    A A A A admittedly) are nothing like these Hall
>    A wheels at all.
>    A A  A A A >>A
>    A A A A Just let a local guy soda blast two of
>    A them down to the green
>    A A  A A A primer,
>    A A  A A A >A  A A A I'll
>    A probably paint them Argent Silver and Clear them just to
>    A A  A A A see the
>    A A  A A A >A  A A A final
>    A results.
>    A A  A A A >A  A A A Photo
>    A attached.
>    A A  A A A >
>    A A A A >>>Since I didn't get your
>    A original e-mail, I didn't get the photo
>    A A A A either....
>    A A A A Cheers!
>    A A A A Mike
>    A -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>    A _______________________________________________
>    A Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>    A Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>    A DeTomaso mailing list
>    A [7]DeTomaso at poca.com
>    A [8]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>    A To manage your subscription (change email address,
>    A unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
> 
> References
> 
>  1. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
>  2. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>  3. mailto:davel at emspace.com
>  4. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>  5. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
>  6. mailto:davel at emspace.com
>  7. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>  8. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 18
> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2016 03:51:32 +0000 (UTC)
> From: Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>
> To: Tomas Gunnarsson <guson at home.se>,    "charlesmccall at gmail.com"
>    <charlesmccall at gmail.com>,    Scott Bell <scott at saccrestorations.net>
> Cc: "detomaso at poca.com" <detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> Message-ID:
>    <1037889853.5193710.1452743492663.JavaMail.yahoo at mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Scott at SACC (http://www.saccrestorations.net/) was selling an electric
parking brake actuator kit?for?Panteras.? I'm not sure if it is currently
available, so you'd have to ask Scott.
> Ken
> ?
> 
>      From: Tomas Gunnarsson <guson at home.se>
> To: charlesmccall at gmail.com 
> Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2016 2:02 PM
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> 
> ? It is more likely a linear actuator driven by a motor. A solenoid would
> ? not be good as it would need to draw current for the whole time the
> ? brakes are on. You can probably hear the motor whine when you flip the
> ? switch (or whatever) and then it goes silent when the brakes are
> ? on/off. Where there's legislation requiring a parking brake it's
> ? usually also a requirement that it's mechanically actuated, hydraulics
> ? are not allowed.
> 
> ? Tomas
> ? <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
> ? ? ? From: Charles McCall [charlesmccall at gmail.com]
> ? Sent: 13/1/2016 10:53:34 PM
> ? To:
> ? MikeLDrew at aol.com;guson at home.se;gaino at earthlink.net;detomaso at poca.com
> ? Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> ? I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems work by
> ? pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple mechanical
> ? 'arm'
> ? that
> ? is pulling on a mechanical parking brake? Does anybody know that for
> ? sure?
> ? ****Audis use a mechanical parking brake actuated by a solenoid - the
> ? second
> ? case. They do not pressurize the fluid in the line. They have some
> ? electronics to ease the brake on if you are moving, but actuating it at
> ? any
> ? speed locks up your brakes. They are either on or off.
> ? _______________________________________________
> ? Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> ? Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> ? DeTomaso mailing list
> ? DeTomaso at poca.com
> ? http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> ? To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> ? use the links above.
> ? .
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use
the links above.
> 
> 
> 
> -------------- next part --------------
>  Scott at SACC ([1]http://www.saccrestorations.net/) was selling an
>  electric parking brake actuator kit for Panteras.  I'm not sure if it
>  is currently available, so you'd have to ask Scott.
>  Ken
>    __________________________________________________________________
> 
>  From: Tomas Gunnarsson <guson at home.se>
>  To: charlesmccall at gmail.com
>  Cc: detomaso at poca.com
>  Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2016 2:02 PM
>  Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
>    It is more likely a linear actuator driven by a motor. A solenoid
>  would
>    not be good as it would need to draw current for the whole time the
>    brakes are on. You can probably hear the motor whine when you flip
>  the
>    switch (or whatever) and then it goes silent when the brakes are
>    on/off. Where there's legislation requiring a parking brake it's
>    usually also a requirement that it's mechanically actuated,
>  hydraulics
>    are not allowed.
>    Tomas
>    <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
>        From: Charles McCall [[2]charlesmccall at gmail.com]
>    Sent: 13/1/2016 10:53:34 PM
>    To:
> 
>  [3]MikeLDrew at aol.com;[4]guson at home.se;[5]gaino at earthlink.net;[6]detomas
>  o at poca.com
>    Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
>    I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems work by
>    pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple
>  mechanical
>    'arm'
>    that
>    is pulling on a mechanical parking brake? Does anybody know that for
>    sure?
>    ****Audis use a mechanical parking brake actuated by a solenoid - the
>    second
>    case. They do not pressurize the fluid in the line. They have some
>    electronics to ease the brake on if you are moving, but actuating it
>  at
>    any
>    speed locks up your brakes. They are either on or off.
>    _______________________________________________
>    Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>    Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>    DeTomaso mailing list
>    [7]DeTomaso at poca.com
>    [8]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>    To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
>    use the links above.
>    .
>  _______________________________________________
>  Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>  Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>  DeTomaso mailing list
>  [9]DeTomaso at poca.com
>  [10]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>  To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
>  use the links above.
> 
> References
> 
>  1. http://www.saccrestorations.net/
>  2. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
>  3. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
>  4. mailto:guson at home.se
>  5. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
>  6. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>  7. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>  8. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>  9. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>  10. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 19
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 20:19:16 -0800
> From: "Scott Bell" <scott at saccrestorations.net>
> To: "'Ken Green'" <kenn_green at yahoo.com>
> Cc: <detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> Message-ID: <013501d14e82$bc2e21f0$348a65d0$@saccrestorations.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Yes, the E-Stopp Electronic Parking Brake Kit is back and available to use
with the stock Pantera rear Calipers or with any aftermarket parking brake
caliper. I will add them back to our website later this week.
> 
> We offer the kit as it is sold from E-Stopp. The do-it-yourselfer can fab
the brackets needed to mount it in the Pantera. OR, we offer an installation
kit that makes the unit a bolt on upgrade. 
> 
> Interestingly, before I had the E-Stopp installed in my Pantera, I almost
never set my parking brake. Not sure why, maybe because I didn?t like how
awkward the stock unit was to operate. For the stock unit to work it really
needs to be set with a bit or force. Then, to release, I needed to use both
hands. After installing the Electronic unit, I set the parking brake every
time I park the car. 
> 
> In addition to the Electronic Actuator, SACC Restorations is coming out
with a new Parking Brake Caliper Kit that will be a bolt on unit custom
fitted specifically for the Pantera. This will give owners an opportunity to
upgrade to a great looking, light weight and affordable parking brake
solution. More to come on the new product in the next few weeks!
> 
> Scott
> 
> From: Ken Green [mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2016 7:52 PM
> To: Tomas Gunnarsson; charlesmccall at gmail.com; Scott Bell
> Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> 
> Scott at SACC (http://www.saccrestorations.net/) was selling an electric
parking brake actuator kit for Panteras.  I'm not sure if it is currently
available, so you'd have to ask Scott.
> 
> Ken
> 
> 
>  _____  
> 
> From: Tomas Gunnarsson <guson at home.se>
> To: charlesmccall at gmail.com 
> Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2016 2:02 PM
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> 
>  It is more likely a linear actuator driven by a motor. A solenoid would
>  not be good as it would need to draw current for the whole time the
>  brakes are on. You can probably hear the motor whine when you flip the
>  switch (or whatever) and then it goes silent when the brakes are
>  on/off. Where there's legislation requiring a parking brake it's
>  usually also a requirement that it's mechanically actuated, hydraulics
>  are not allowed.
> 
>  Tomas
>  <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
>      From: Charles McCall [charlesmccall at gmail.com]
>  Sent: 13/1/2016 10:53:34 PM
>  To:
>  MikeLDrew at aol.com;guson at home.se;gaino at earthlink.net;detomaso at poca.com
>  Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
>  I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems work by
>  pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple mechanical
>  'arm'
>  that
>  is pulling on a mechanical parking brake? Does anybody know that for
>  sure?
>  ****Audis use a mechanical parking brake actuated by a solenoid - the
>  second
>  case. They do not pressurize the fluid in the line. They have some
>  electronics to ease the brake on if you are moving, but actuating it at
>  any
>  speed locks up your brakes. They are either on or off.
>  _______________________________________________
>  Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>  Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>  DeTomaso mailing list
>  DeTomaso at poca.com
>  http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>  To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
>  use the links above.
>  .
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use
the links above.
> 
> 
> -------------- next part --------------
>  Yes, the E-Stopp Electronic Parking Brake Kit is back and available to
>  use with the stock Pantera rear Calipers or with any aftermarket
>  parking brake caliper. I will add them back to our website later this
>  week.
> 
> 
>  We offer the kit as it is sold from E-Stopp. The do-it-yourselfer can
>  fab the brackets needed to mount it in the Pantera. OR, we offer an
>  installation kit that makes the unit a bolt on upgrade.
> 
> 
>  Interestingly, before I had the E-Stopp installed in my Pantera, I
>  almost never set my parking brake. Not sure why, maybe because I didn't
>  like how awkward the stock unit was to operate. For the stock unit to
>  work it really needs to be set with a bit or force. Then, to release, I
>  needed to use both hands. After installing the Electronic unit, I set
>  the parking brake every time I park the car.
> 
> 
>  In addition to the Electronic Actuator, SACC Restorations is coming out
>  with a new Parking Brake Caliper Kit that will be a bolt on unit custom
>  fitted specifically for the Pantera. This will give owners an
>  opportunity to upgrade to a great looking, light weight and affordable
>  parking brake solution. More to come on the new product in the next few
>  weeks!
> 
> 
>  Scott
> 
> 
>  From: Ken Green [mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com]
>  Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2016 7:52 PM
>  To: Tomas Gunnarsson; charlesmccall at gmail.com; Scott Bell
>  Cc: detomaso at poca.com
>  Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> 
> 
>  Scott at SACC ([1]http://www.saccrestorations.net/) was selling an
>  electric parking brake actuator kit for Panteras.  I'm not sure if it
>  is currently available, so you'd have to ask Scott.
> 
> 
>  Ken
> 
>  _______________________________________________________________________
> 
>  From: Tomas Gunnarsson <[2]guson at home.se>
>  To: [3]charlesmccall at gmail.com
>  Cc: [4]detomaso at poca.com
>  Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2016 2:02 PM
>  Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> 
>    It is more likely a linear actuator driven by a motor. A solenoid
>  would
>    not be good as it would need to draw current for the whole time the
>    brakes are on. You can probably hear the motor whine when you flip
>  the
>    switch (or whatever) and then it goes silent when the brakes are
>    on/off. Where there's legislation requiring a parking brake it's
>    usually also a requirement that it's mechanically actuated,
>  hydraulics
>    are not allowed.
>    Tomas
>    <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
>        From: Charles McCall [[5]charlesmccall at gmail.com]
>    Sent: 13/1/2016 10:53:34 PM
>    To:
> 
>  [6]MikeLDrew at aol.com;[7]guson at home.se;[8]gaino at earthlink.net;[9]detomas
>  o at poca.com
>    Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
>    I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems work by
>    pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple
>  mechanical
>    'arm'
>    that
>    is pulling on a mechanical parking brake? Does anybody know that for
>    sure?
>    ****Audis use a mechanical parking brake actuated by a solenoid - the
>    second
>    case. They do not pressurize the fluid in the line. They have some
>    electronics to ease the brake on if you are moving, but actuating it
>  at
>    any
>    speed locks up your brakes. They are either on or off.
>    _______________________________________________
>    Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>    Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>    DeTomaso mailing list
>    [10]DeTomaso at poca.com
>    [11]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>    To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
>    use the links above.
>    .
>  _______________________________________________
>  Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>  Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>  DeTomaso mailing list
>  [12]DeTomaso at poca.com
>  [13]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>  To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
>  use the links above.
> 
> References
> 
>  1. http://www.saccrestorations.net/
>  2. mailto:guson at home.se
>  3. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
>  4. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>  5. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
>  6. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
>  7. mailto:guson at home.se
>  8. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
>  9. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>  10. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>  11. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>  12. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>  13. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 20
> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2016 16:50:07 +0000 (UTC)
> From: B Hower <b.hower3400 at yahoo.com>
> To: De Tomaso List <detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: [DeTomaso] NPC 91 Merc parts
> Message-ID:
>    <749672874.510825.1452790207343.JavaMail.yahoo at mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Hi all,
> I am scrapping a 91 Merc Marque. If anyone would happen to need any parts
from same,,,,contact me off forum. 
> ?Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow -- for there may not be !
)
> -------------- next part --------------
>  Hi all,
>  I am scrapping a 91 Merc Marque. If anyone would happen to need any
>  parts from same,,,,contact me off forum.
> 
>  Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow -- for there may not be
>  ! )
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 21
> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2016 12:26:12 -0500
> From: Rob Dumoulin <rob at dumoulins.net>
> To: Pantera - DeTomaso Mail List <DeTomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: [DeTomaso] NPC 2000 BMW 740i Sport for whole or parts
> Message-ID:
>    <CAEr4y_vxSUkwzguCsUO6EJwL3z5uDV7+GGdEiL6YXMPoB4H1jw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Following Bud's lead,
> 
> The finest road car I have ever owned is being put out to pasture in
> Northwest Florida.  I've got a 2000 BMW 740i Sport (M body, M rims, M
> transmission, and M suspension package, but a regular M62 4.4 V8) that I
> have dropped off at my mechanic and advised him I would split any profit
he
> makes from it.  He is making it pretty to sell.  Catch it quick before he
> sinks money into it for a better deal.
> 
> Buy it whole, or make it worth our time in parts.  Contact me off list if
> you want to know what it needs mechanically to be right again.
> 
> Rob
> 904.476.8744
> -------------- next part --------------
>  Following Bud's lead,
>  The finest road car I have ever owned is being put out to pasture in
>  Northwest Florida.A  I've got a 2000 BMW 740i Sport (M body, M rims, M
>  transmission, and M suspension package, but a regular M62 4.4 V8) that
>  I have dropped off at my mechanic and advised him I would split any
>  profit he makes from it.A  He is making it pretty to sell.A  Catch it
>  quick before he sinks money into it for a better deal.
>  Buy it whole, or make it worth our time in parts.A  Contact me off list
>  if you want to know what it needs mechanically to be right again.
>  Rob
>  904.476.8744
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 22
> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2016 12:35:44 -0500
> From: "Mirril M. McMullen" <mirrilm at earthlink.net>
> To: "'Rob Dumoulin'" <rob at dumoulins.net>
> Cc: "'Pantera - DeTomaso Mail List'" <DeTomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC 2000 BMW 740i Sport for whole or parts
> Message-ID: <009b01d14ef1$ff563660$fe02a320$@earthlink.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="UTF-8"
> 
> Hmmm,
> 
> Let me guess, cam chains eating the timing cover?
> 
> /\/\///
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of Rob
Dumoulin
> Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 12:26 PM
> To: Pantera - DeTomaso Mail List
> Subject: [DeTomaso] NPC 2000 BMW 740i Sport for whole or parts
> 
> Following Bud's lead,
> 
> The finest road car I have ever owned is being put out to pasture in
Northwest Florida.  I've got a 2000 BMW 740i Sport (M body, M rims, M
transmission, and M suspension package, but a regular M62 4.4 V8) that I
have dropped off at my mechanic and advised him I would split any profit he
makes from it.  He is making it pretty to sell.  Catch it quick before he
sinks money into it for a better deal.
> 
> Buy it whole, or make it worth our time in parts.  Contact me off list if
you want to know what it needs mechanically to be right again.
> 
> Rob
> 904.476.8744
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 23
> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2016 12:55:15 -0500
> From: Rob Dumoulin <rob at dumoulins.net>
> To: Mirril McMullen <mirrilm at earthlink.net>
> Cc: Pantera - DeTomaso Mail List <DeTomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC 2000 BMW 740i Sport for whole or parts
> Message-ID:
>    <CAEr4y_tsVfHd1sESiSVDnm-VZD7x5PkuiCm2OTmAZ1mJ7ZkmCw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Not at all.  Cam chain, tensioner, waterpump all changed a few years ago.
> Also, new fan clutch, radiator, belts, and other stuff.  Always got
> synthetic oil changes regular.
> 
> 240K miles and a transmission that will not go into reverse when engine is
> hot was the kicker.  That and the interior is showing age.
> 
> Needs two new coil packs and possibly a VANOS sensor but still glides down
> the road.
> 
> Rob DuMoulin
> 904.476.8744
> rob at dumoulins.net
> www.kbsi.co
> http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
> 
> On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 12:35 PM, Mirril M. McMullen
<mirrilm at earthlink.net>
> wrote:
> 
>> Hmmm,
>> 
>> Let me guess, cam chains eating the timing cover?
>> 
>> /\/\///
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of Rob
>> Dumoulin
>> Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 12:26 PM
>> To: Pantera - DeTomaso Mail List
>> Subject: [DeTomaso] NPC 2000 BMW 740i Sport for whole or parts
>> 
>> Following Bud's lead,
>> 
>> The finest road car I have ever owned is being put out to pasture in
>> Northwest Florida.  I've got a 2000 BMW 740i Sport (M body, M rims, M
>> transmission, and M suspension package, but a regular M62 4.4 V8) that I
>> have dropped off at my mechanic and advised him I would split any profit
he
>> makes from it.  He is making it pretty to sell.  Catch it quick before he
>> sinks money into it for a better deal.
>> 
>> Buy it whole, or make it worth our time in parts.  Contact me off list if
>> you want to know what it needs mechanically to be right again.
>> 
>> Rob
>> 904.476.8744
> -------------- next part --------------
>  Not at all.A  Cam chain, tensioner, waterpump all changed a few years
>  ago. A
>  Also, new fan clutch, radiator, belts, and other stuff.A  Always got
>  synthetic oil changes regular.
>  240K miles and a transmission that will not go into reverse when engine
>  is hot was the kicker.A  That and the interior is showing age.A
>  Needs two new coil packs and possibly a VANOS sensor but still glides
>  down the road.
> 
>  Rob DuMoulin
>  904.476.8744
>  [1]rob at dumoulins.net
>  [2]www.kbsi.co
>  [3]http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
>  On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 12:35 PM, Mirril M. McMullen
>  <[4]mirrilm at earthlink.net> wrote:
> 
>    Hmmm,
>    Let me guess, cam chains eating the timing cover?
>    /\/\///
> 
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: DeTomaso [mailto:[5]detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of Rob
>  Dumoulin
>  Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 12:26 PM
>  To: Pantera - DeTomaso Mail List
>  Subject: [DeTomaso] NPC 2000 BMW 740i Sport for whole or parts
>  Following Bud's lead,
>  The finest road car I have ever owned is being put out to pasture in
>  Northwest Florida.A  I've got a 2000 BMW 740i Sport (M body, M rims, M
>  transmission, and M suspension package, but a regular M62 4.4 V8) that
>  I have dropped off at my mechanic and advised him I would split any
>  profit he makes from it.A  He is making it pretty to sell.A  Catch it
>  quick before he sinks money into it for a better deal.
>  Buy it whole, or make it worth our time in parts.A  Contact me off list
>  if you want to know what it needs mechanically to be right again.
>  Rob
>  904.476.8744
> 
> References
> 
>  1. mailto:rob at dumoulins.net
>  2. http://www.kbsi.co/
>  3. http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
>  4. mailto:mirrilm at earthlink.net
>  5. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 24
> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2016 12:56:57 -0500
> From: Rob Dumoulin <rob at dumoulins.net>
> To: Mirril McMullen <mirrilm at earthlink.net>
> Cc: Pantera - DeTomaso Mail List <DeTomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC 2000 BMW 740i Sport for whole or parts
> Message-ID:
>    <CAEr4y_ubKH1kTNF61wqfS+TpW+q2OPZuP=uwOjq5Y=FhZt-Apw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Forgot to add....I have 6 cars.  I do not need 6 cars.
> 
> Rob DuMoulin
> 904.476.8744
> rob at dumoulins.net
> www.kbsi.co
> http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
> 
>> On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 12:55 PM, Rob Dumoulin <rob at dumoulins.net> wrote:
>> 
>> Not at all.  Cam chain, tensioner, waterpump all changed a few years ago.
>> Also, new fan clutch, radiator, belts, and other stuff.  Always got
>> synthetic oil changes regular.
>> 
>> 240K miles and a transmission that will not go into reverse when engine
is
>> hot was the kicker.  That and the interior is showing age.
>> 
>> Needs two new coil packs and possibly a VANOS sensor but still glides
down
>> the road.
>> 
>> Rob DuMoulin
>> 904.476.8744
>> rob at dumoulins.net
>> www.kbsi.co
>> http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
>> 
>> On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 12:35 PM, Mirril M. McMullen <
>> mirrilm at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hmmm,
>>> 
>>> Let me guess, cam chains eating the timing cover?
>>> 
>>> /\/\///
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of Rob
>>> Dumoulin
>>> Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 12:26 PM
>>> To: Pantera - DeTomaso Mail List
>>> Subject: [DeTomaso] NPC 2000 BMW 740i Sport for whole or parts
>>> 
>>> Following Bud's lead,
>>> 
>>> The finest road car I have ever owned is being put out to pasture in
>>> Northwest Florida.  I've got a 2000 BMW 740i Sport (M body, M rims, M
>>> transmission, and M suspension package, but a regular M62 4.4 V8) that I
>>> have dropped off at my mechanic and advised him I would split any profit
he
>>> makes from it.  He is making it pretty to sell.  Catch it quick before
he
>>> sinks money into it for a better deal.
>>> 
>>> Buy it whole, or make it worth our time in parts.  Contact me off list
if
>>> you want to know what it needs mechanically to be right again.
>>> 
>>> Rob
>>> 904.476.8744
> -------------- next part --------------
>  Forgot to add....I have 6 cars.A  I do not need 6 cars.
> 
>  Rob DuMoulin
>  904.476.8744
>  [1]rob at dumoulins.net
>  [2]www.kbsi.co
>  [3]http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
>  On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 12:55 PM, Rob Dumoulin <[4]rob at dumoulins.net>
>  wrote:
> 
>  Not at all.A  Cam chain, tensioner, waterpump all changed a few years
>  ago. A
>  Also, new fan clutch, radiator, belts, and other stuff.A  Always got
>  synthetic oil changes regular.
>  240K miles and a transmission that will not go into reverse when engine
>  is hot was the kicker.A  That and the interior is showing age.A
>  Needs two new coil packs and possibly a VANOS sensor but still glides
>  down the road.
> 
>  Rob DuMoulin
>  [5]904.476.8744
>  [6]rob at dumoulins.net
>  [7]www.kbsi.co
>  [8]http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
>  On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 12:35 PM, Mirril M. McMullen
>  <[9]mirrilm at earthlink.net> wrote:
> 
>    Hmmm,
>    Let me guess, cam chains eating the timing cover?
>    /\/\///
> 
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: DeTomaso [mailto:[10]detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of Rob
>  Dumoulin
>  Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 12:26 PM
>  To: Pantera - DeTomaso Mail List
>  Subject: [DeTomaso] NPC 2000 BMW 740i Sport for whole or parts
>  Following Bud's lead,
>  The finest road car I have ever owned is being put out to pasture in
>  Northwest Florida.A  I've got a 2000 BMW 740i Sport (M body, M rims, M
>  transmission, and M suspension package, but a regular M62 4.4 V8) that
>  I have dropped off at my mechanic and advised him I would split any
>  profit he makes from it.A  He is making it pretty to sell.A  Catch it
>  quick before he sinks money into it for a better deal.
>  Buy it whole, or make it worth our time in parts.A  Contact me off list
>  if you want to know what it needs mechanically to be right again.
>  Rob
>  [11]904.476.8744
> 
> References
> 
>  1. mailto:rob at dumoulins.net
>  2. http://www.kbsi.co/
>  3. http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
>  4. mailto:rob at dumoulins.net
>  5. tel:904.476.8744
>  6. mailto:rob at dumoulins.net
>  7. http://www.kbsi.co/
>  8. http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
>  9. mailto:mirrilm at earthlink.net
>  10. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
>  11. tel:904.476.8744
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 25
> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2016 18:08:58 +0000 (UTC)
> From: marshall smith <marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
> To: 'Tomas Gunnarsson' <guson at home.se>,  <gaino at earthlink.net>,
>    Stephen <steve at snclocks.com>
> Cc: <detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> Message-ID:
>    <819779826.4191306.1452794938797.JavaMail.yahoo at mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> 
> Yikes....I could never trust my E brake on 'this' hill!
> --------------------------------------------
> On Wed, 1/13/16, Stephen <steve at snclocks.com> wrote:
> 
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> To: "'Tomas Gunnarsson'" <guson at home.se>, gaino at earthlink.net
> Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2016, 8:21 AM
> 
> ???Whilst `inelegant',
> at least the stock system works well.? I installed
> ???Wildwoods on the front of the discs and
> kept the originals on the
> ???back.? I did have the originals
> coated black - heck, doesn't look that
> ???bad.
> 
> 
> ???Stephen Nelson
> 
> 
> ???-----Original Message-----
> ???From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com]
> On Behalf Of Tomas
> ???Gunnarsson
> ???Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2016 8:03 AM
> ???To: gaino at earthlink.net
> ???Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> ???Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> 
> 
> ???That's simply not a good solution. Doesn't
> work as an emergency brake
> ???and parking brake function is dubious. If
> you park your car with the
> ???brakes hot they may release when they cool
> off.
> 
> ???Tomas
> 
> 
> ???<-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
> 
> 
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
> ???From: bill gaino [gaino at earthlink.net]
> 
> ???Sent: 13/1/2016 4:52:29 PM
> 
> ???To: [1]detomaso at poca.com
> 
> ???Subject: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> 
> 
> ???Is anybody using a solinoid based parking
> brake? Something that that
> ???blocks fluid in the brake lines to hold
> calipers pressed against the
> ???rotors. My customer does not want the
> extra set of E brake calipers..
> 
> ???like IPSCO offers. Bill 1362
> 
> 
> 
> ???[2]https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref=ts&
> ???fref
> 
> ???=ts
> 
> ???If you want it slick.
> [3]www.slickpaint.com like us on facebook
> 
> 
> ???_______________________________________________
> 
> 
> ???Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> 
> ???Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
> Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list
> ???[4]DeTomaso at poca.com
> ???[5]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 
> 
> ???To manage your subscription (change email
> address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> ???use the links above.
> 
> ???.
> 
> References
> 
> ???1. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> ???2.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref=ts&fref
> ???3. http://www.slickpaint.com/
> ???4. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> ???5. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
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> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 
> To manage your subscription (change email address,
> unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Subject: Digest Footer
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> End of DeTomaso Digest, Vol 139, Issue 16
> *****************************************

_______________________________________________

Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
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-------------- next part --------------
   Drive faster to get air flow up past tank. . smile.

   Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow -- for there may not be
   ! )
     __________________________________________________________________

   From: Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net>
   To: 'tom ware' <ace595 at hotmail.com>; detomaso at poca.com
   Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 7:14 PM
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] DeTomaso Digest, Vol 139, Issue 16
   Dear Tom,
               I am not an expert, but....
   last year I removed the gas tank from my late '74 Pantera, which has
   had the
   stainless steel treatment for the last twenty five years.  Behind the
   bling
   is the base stock thick aluminum(?) which is not a single layer. There
   are
   at least two layers and there *might* be a layer in between.  That is
   my
   guess and I will defer to an expert.
   I think that the normal stainless steel shield installation is over the
   stock one.  Perhaps it is heavier, but it would tend to further shield
   the
   gas tank from the headers' heat.
                       Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
   -----Original Message-----
   From: DeTomaso [mailto:[1]detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of tom
   ware
   Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 5:58 PM
   To: [2]detomaso at poca.com
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] DeTomaso Digest, Vol 139, Issue 16
   Gas tank shield ?
   I have a new stainless steel shield that came with my project.
   Is it the norm to insulate it for heat.?
   Thanks
   Tom
   Sent from my iPhone
   > On Jan 14, 2016, at 2:00 PM, <[3]detomaso-request at poca.com>
   <[4]detomaso-request at poca.com> wrote:
   >
   > Send DeTomaso mailing list submissions to
   >    [5]detomaso at poca.com
   >
   > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
   >    [6]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
   >    [7]detomaso-request at poca.com
   >
   > You can reach the person managing the list at
   >    [8]detomaso-owner at poca.com
   >
   > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
   > than "Re: Contents of DeTomaso digest..."
   >
   >
   > Daily Detomaso List Digest
   >
   > Today's Topics:
   >
   >  1. Re: parking brakes (Tomas Gunnarsson)
   >  2. Re: parking brakes ([9]MikeLDrew at aol.com)
   >  3. Re: parking brakes ([10]MikeLDrew at aol.com)
   >  4. Re: parking brakes ([11]MikeLDrew at aol.com)
   >  5. Re: Campagnolo Wheels ([12]MikeLDrew at aol.com)
   >  6. Re: parking brakes (Stephen)
   >  7. Re: parking brakes (L GRAY)
   >  8. Re: Campagnolo Wheels (Michael Shortt)
   >  9. Re: parking brakes (Tomas Gunnarsson)
   >  10. Re: Campagnolo Wheels (Larry Stock)
   >  11. Re: parking brakes (Charles McCall)
   >  12. Re: parking brakes (Tomas Gunnarsson)
   >  13. Re: parking brakes (Charles McCall)
   >  14. Re: parking brakes (Thomas Tornblom)
   >  15. Re: Campagnolo Wheels (marshall smith)
   >  16. Re: Campagnolo Wheels (marshall smith)
   >  17. Re: Campagnolo Wheels (Michael Shortt)
   >  18. Re: parking brakes (Ken Green)
   >  19. Re: parking brakes (Scott Bell)
   >  20. NPC 91 Merc parts (B Hower)
   >  21. NPC 2000 BMW 740i Sport for whole or parts (Rob Dumoulin)
   >  22. Re: NPC 2000 BMW 740i Sport for whole or parts
   >      (Mirril M. McMullen)
   >  23. Re: NPC 2000 BMW 740i Sport for whole or parts (Rob Dumoulin)
   >  24. Re: NPC 2000 BMW 740i Sport for whole or parts (Rob Dumoulin)
   >  25. Re: parking brakes (marshall smith)
   >
   >
   >
   ----------------------------------------------------------------------
   >
   > Message: 1
   > Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 11:27:31 -0800
   > From: "Tomas Gunnarsson" <[13]guson at home.se>
   > To: <[14]gaino at earthlink.net>
   > Cc: <[15]steve at snclocks.com>,    <[16]detomaso at poca.com>
   > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
   > Message-ID: <[17]46D238640B764EE3A581C2544BE74A80 at mail2world.com>
   > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
   >
   > Yes Bill, most likely. I have installed calipers on the front side of
   > the uprights, the holes were threaded and all. I think I heard that
   not
   > all uprights are drilled front and back but it may be that only newer
   > cars that suffer from that.
   >
   > Tomas
   >
   >
   >
   > <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
   >
   >        From: bill gaino [[18]gaino at earthlink.net]
   > Sent: 13/1/2016 6:13:51 PM
   > To: [19]steve at snclocks.com;[20]guson at home.se
   > Cc: [21]detomaso at poca.com
   > Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
   >
   >
   > Is it possible to mount the stock calipers in the front position to
   use
   > as Ebrake?  He already has the Wilwoods installed and saftey wired on
   > the rear mounts..Bill 1362
   >
   >
   >
   >    -----Original Message-----
   >    From: Stephen
   >    Sent: Jan 13, 2016 11:21 AM
   >    To: 'Tomas Gunnarsson' , [22]gaino at earthlink.net
   >    Cc: [23]detomaso at poca.com
   >    Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
   >
   >
   >
   >    Whilst 'inelegant', at least the stock system works well.  I
   > installed Wildwoods on the front of the discs and kept the originals
   on
   > the back.  I did have the originals coated black - heck, doesn't look
   > that bad.
   >
   >
   >
   >    Stephen Nelson
   >
   >
   >
   >    -----Original Message-----
   >    From: DeTomaso [mailto:[24]detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of
   > Tomas Gunnarsson
   >    Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2016 8:03 AM
   >    To: [25]gaino at earthlink.net
   >    Cc: [26]detomaso at poca.com
   >    Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
   >
   >
   >
   >    That's simply not a good solution. Doesn't work as an emergency
   > brake and parking brake function is dubious. If you park your car
   with
   > the brakes hot they may release when they cool off.
   >
   >
   >
   >    Tomas
   >
   >
   >
   >    <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
   >
   >
   >
   >                                  From: bill gaino
   > [[27]gaino at earthlink.net]
   >
   >    Sent: 13/1/2016 4:52:29 PM
   >
   >    To: [28]detomaso at poca.com <mailto:[29]detomaso at poca.com>
   >
   >    Subject: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
   >
   >
   >
   >    Is anybody using a solinoid based parking brake? Something that
   > that blocks fluid in the brake lines to hold calipers pressed against
   > the rotors. My customer does not want the extra set of E brake
   > calipers..
   >
   >    like IPSCO offers. Bill 1362
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   [30]https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref=ts
   &fref
   >
   <[31]https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref=t
   s&fre
   > f>
   >
   >    =ts
   >
   >    If you want it slick. www.slickpaint.com
   > <[32]http://www.slickpaint.com>  like us on facebook
   >
   >
   >
   >    _______________________________________________
   >
   >
   >
   >    Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
   >
   >    Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing
   > list [33]DeTomaso at poca.com <mailto:[34]DeTomaso at poca.com>
   > [35]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   > <[36]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com>
   >
   >
   >
   >    To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
   > etc.) use the links above.
   >
   >    .
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   [37]https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref=ts
   &fref
   > =ts
   > If you want it slick.  www.slickpaint.com  like us on facebook
   >
   >
   > .
   > -------------- next part --------------
   >  Yes Bill, most likely. I have installed calipers on the front side
   of
   >  the uprights, the holes were threaded and all. I think I heard that
   not
   >  all uprights are drilled front and back but it may be that only
   newer
   >  cars that suffer from that.
   >
   >  Tomas
   >  <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
   >      From: bill gaino [[38]gaino at earthlink.net]
   >  Sent: 13/1/2016 6:13:51 PM
   >  To: [39]steve at snclocks.com;[40]guson at home.se
   >  Cc: [41]detomaso at poca.com
   >  Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
   >  Is it possible to mount the stock calipers in the front position to
   use
   >  as Ebrake?  He already has the Wilwoods installed and saftey wired
   on
   >  the rear mounts..Bill 1362
   >
   >    -----Original Message-----
   >    From: Stephen
   >    Sent: Jan 13, 2016 11:21 AM
   >    To: 'Tomas Gunnarsson' , [42]gaino at earthlink.net
   >    Cc: [43]detomaso at poca.com
   >    Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
   >
   >  Whilst `inelegant', at least the stock system works well.  I
   installed
   >  Wildwoods on the front of the discs and kept the originals on the
   >  back.  I did have the originals coated black - heck, doesn't look
   that
   >  bad.
   >
   >
   >  Stephen Nelson
   >
   >
   >  -----Original Message-----
   >  From: DeTomaso [mailto:[44]detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of
   Tomas
   >  Gunnarsson
   >  Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2016 8:03 AM
   >  To: [45]gaino at earthlink.net
   >  Cc: [46]detomaso at poca.com
   >  Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
   >
   >
   >  That's simply not a good solution. Doesn't work as an emergency
   brake
   >  and parking brake function is dubious. If you park your car with the
   >  brakes hot they may release when they cool off.
   >
   >  Tomas
   >
   >
   >  <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
   >
   >
   >                                From: bill gaino
   [[47]gaino at earthlink.net]
   >
   >  Sent: 13/1/2016 4:52:29 PM
   >
   >  To: [1][48]detomaso at poca.com
   >
   >  Subject: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
   >
   >
   >  Is anybody using a solinoid based parking brake? Something that that
   >  blocks fluid in the brake lines to hold calipers pressed against the
   >  rotors. My customer does not want the extra set of E brake
   calipers..
   >
   >  like IPSCO offers. Bill 1362
   >
   >
   >
   >
   [2][49]https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref
   =ts&
   >  fref
   >
   >  =ts
   >
   >  If you want it slick. [3]www.slickpaint.com like us on facebook
   >
   >
   >  _______________________________________________
   >
   >
   >  Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
   >
   >  Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list
   >  [4][50]DeTomaso at poca.com
   >  [5][51]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   >
   >
   >  To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
   etc.)
   >  use the links above.
   >
   >  .
   >
   >
   >
   [52]https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref=ts
   &fref=ts
   > If you want it slick.  www.slickpaint.com  like us on facebook
   >
   >  .
   >
   > References
   >
   >  1. mailto:[53]detomaso at poca.com
   >  2.
   [54]https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref=ts
   &fref
   >  3. [55]http://www.slickpaint.com/
   >  4. mailto:[56]DeTomaso at poca.com
   >  5. [57]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   >
   > ------------------------------
   >
   > Message: 2
   > Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 14:51:53 -0500
   > From: [58]MikeLDrew at aol.com
   > To: [59]guson at home.se, [60]gaino at earthlink.net
   > Cc: [61]detomaso at poca.com
   > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
   > Message-ID: <[62]72fdba.12644e17.43c804d9 at aol.com>
   > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
   >
   >
   > In a message dated 1/13/16 8 03 59, [63]guson at home.se writes:
   >
   >
   >> That's simply not a good solution. Doesn't work as an emergency
   brake
   >> and parking brake function is dubious. If you park your car with the
   >> brakes hot they may release when they cool off.
   >
   >>>> Tomas, you're talking about a simple line lock.  He's asking about
   an
   > (electrical) solenoid-operated system, which was pioneered by the
   OEMs and
   is
   > in wide use (and is, significantly, sufficiently effective to satisfy
   > government regulations worldwide).  Such systems are now available in
   the
   > aftermarket.
   >
   > I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems work by
   > pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple
   mechanical
   'arm' that
   > is pulling on a mechanical parking brake?  Does anybody know that for
   sure?
   >
   > You're correct in asserting that a simple line lock is insufficient
   to
   hold
   > a car for any length of time; they are designed for very short-term
   use
   > only.  Geoff Peters' Pantera nearly missed (by less than an inch)
   crashing
   > into an Aston Martin DB4 when he let a friend borrow it and the fool
   parked it
   > overnight on a slope in neutral with the line lock engaged.  As the
   brakes
   > cooled at night, they released and the car rolled through a lot
   crowded
   with
   > collector cars, brushed past the Aston and crashed through a hedge
   and
   down
   > into a ditch!  Fortunately it was unhurt, but it could have been very
   bad
   > indeed.
   >
   > A solenoid-type system that actuated the brake hydraulics would be
   much
   > more effective because it has its own master cylinder that would
   still
   hold
   > pressure even as the fluid cooled.  However, it would not serve as a
   proper
   > emergency brake if there was a hydraulic failure (say, a seal blew
   out in
   a
   > caliper) whereas a cable-type system that mechanically leverages the
   > components of the caliper requires no hydraulics to work.
   >
   > Mike (who has had no parking brake at all for the past 30
   years...park
   > wisely and hope for the best!)
   > -------------- next part --------------
   >  In a message dated 1/13/16 8 03 59, [64]guson at home.se writes:
   >
   >    That's simply not a good solution. Doesn't work as an emergency
   >    brake
   >    and parking brake function is dubious. If you park your car with
   the
   >    brakes hot they may release when they cool off.
   >
   >>>> Tomas, you're talking about a simple line lock.  He's asking about
   >  an (electrical) solenoid-operated system, which was pioneered by the
   >  OEMs and is in wide use (and is, significantly, sufficiently
   effective
   >  to satisfy government regulations worldwide).  Such systems are now
   >  available in the aftermarket.
   >  I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems work by
   >  pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple
   mechanical
   >  'arm' that is pulling on a mechanical parking brake?  Does anybody
   know
   >  that for sure?
   >  You're correct in asserting that a simple line lock is insufficient
   to
   >  hold a car for any length of time; they are designed for very
   >  short-term use only.  Geoff Peters' Pantera nearly missed (by less
   than
   >  an inch) crashing into an Aston Martin DB4 when he let a friend
   borrow
   >  it and the fool parked it overnight on a slope in neutral with the
   line
   >  lock engaged.  As the brakes cooled at night, they released and the
   car
   >  rolled through a lot crowded with collector cars, brushed past the
   >  Aston and crashed through a hedge and down into a ditch!
   Fortunately
   >  it was unhurt, but it could have been very bad indeed.
   >  A solenoid-type system that actuated the brake hydraulics would be
   much
   >  more effective because it has its own master cylinder that would
   still
   >  hold pressure even as the fluid cooled.  However, it would not serve
   as
   >  a proper emergency brake if there was a hydraulic failure (say, a
   seal
   >  blew out in a caliper) whereas a cable-type system that mechanically
   >  leverages the components of the caliper requires no hydraulics to
   work.
   >  Mike (who has had no parking brake at all for the past 30
   years...park
   >  wisely and hope for the best!)
   >
   > ------------------------------
   >
   > Message: 3
   > Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 14:51:57 -0500
   > From: [65]MikeLDrew at aol.com
   > To: [66]gaino at earthlink.net, [67]steve at snclocks.com,
   [68]guson at home.se
   > Cc: [69]detomaso at poca.com
   > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
   > Message-ID: <[70]72fdc9.23690f23.43c804dd at aol.com>
   > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
   >
   >
   > In a message dated 1/13/16 9 15 10, [71]gaino at earthlink.net writes:
   >
   >
   >> ?? Is it possible to mount the stock calipers in the front position
   to
   >> use
   >> ?? as Ebrake?? He already has the Wilwoods installed and saftey
   wired on
   >> ?? the rear mounts.
   >
   >>>> People who say 'yes' are forgetting about simple mechanics.  The
   > calipers are actuated by cables which are introduced into the rear of
   the
   > wheelwell.  If the calipers are repositioned the cables will no
   longer
   fit, plus if
   > longer ones were used, they would foul the driveshafts on their way
   > forward.  The only possible way to make a system like that work would
   be
   to
   > reposition the cables so they entered the wheelwells ahead of,
   instead of
   behind
   > the hub carriers, and there would be a fair bit of engineering
   involved.
   I
   > suppose it might be possible, but it certainly won't be a trivial
   exercise.
   >
   > Mike
   > -------------- next part --------------
   >  In a message dated 1/13/16 9 15 10, [72]gaino at earthlink.net writes:
   >
   >        Is it possible to mount the stock calipers in the front
   position
   >    to use
   >        as Ebrake?  He already has the Wilwoods installed and saftey
   >    wired on
   >        the rear mounts.
   >
   >>>> People who say 'yes' are forgetting about simple mechanics.  The
   >  calipers are actuated by cables which are introduced into the rear
   of
   >  the wheelwell.  If the calipers are repositioned the cables will no
   >  longer fit, plus if longer ones were used, they would foul the
   >  driveshafts on their way forward.  The only possible way to make a
   >  system like that work would be to reposition the cables so they
   entered
   >  the wheelwells ahead of, instead of behind the hub carriers, and
   there
   >  would be a fair bit of engineering involved.  I suppose it might be
   >  possible, but it certainly won't be a trivial exercise.
   >  Mike
   >
   > ------------------------------
   >
   > Message: 4
   > Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 14:52:03 -0500
   > From: [73]MikeLDrew at aol.com
   > To: [74]guson at home.se, [75]gaino at earthlink.net
   > Cc: [76]detomaso at poca.com
   > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
   > Message-ID: <[77]72fddd.5edc2feb.43c804e3 at aol.com>
   > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
   >
   >
   > In a message dated 1/13/16 11 28 28, [78]guson at home.se writes:
   >
   >
   >> Yes Bill, most likely. I have installed calipers on the front side
   of
   >> the uprights, the holes were threaded and all. I think I heard that
   not
   >> all uprights are drilled front and back but it may be that only
   newer
   >> cars that suffer from that.
   >
   >>>> True--the GT5/GT5-S uprights are 'handed' with mounting holes only
   on
   > one side (which, when you think about it, is really dumb from a
   production
   > standpoint).
   >
   > Mike
   > -------------- next part --------------
   >  In a message dated 1/13/16 11 28 28, [79]guson at home.se writes:
   >
   >    Yes Bill, most likely. I have installed calipers on the front side
   >    of
   >    the uprights, the holes were threaded and all. I think I heard
   that
   >    not
   >    all uprights are drilled front and back but it may be that only
   >    newer
   >    cars that suffer from that.
   >
   >>>> True--the GT5/GT5-S uprights are 'handed' with mounting holes only
   >  on one side (which, when you think about it, is really dumb from a
   >  production standpoint).
   >  Mike
   >
   > ------------------------------
   >
   > Message: 5
   > Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 15:19:19 -0500
   > From: [80]MikeLDrew at aol.com
   > To: [81]davel at emspace.com, [82]detomaso at poca.com,
   [83]michael at michaelshortt.com
   > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Campagnolo Wheels
   > Message-ID: <[84]73161a.56810af3.43c80b47 at aol.com>
   > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
   >
   >
   > In a message dated 1/10/16 21 39 38, [85]davel at emspace.com writes:
   >
   >
   >>
   >> My 17" Hall wheels are a lot heavier than the mags.
   >> I think that's fine for street, but aren't you concerned about the
   >> unsprung weight for track use?
   >> dave
   >>
   >>
   >>>> Interesting.  This was apparently a reply to an original post by
   > Michael Shortt, but that post never came through to me nor did it
   wind up
   in my
   > spam folder?
   >
   > I'm noting some irregularities with the forum these days....anyway,
   > thankfully Dave included Michael's original post, so see replies
   below:
   >
   >
   >>> On 1/08/16 9:17 PM, Michael Shortt wrote:
   >>> ? ?? Greetings,
   >>>
   >>> ? ?? After gathering all my wheels in one place and a brief
   inventory
   >> today,
   >>> ? ?? I have 21 Campy wheels,
   >>
   >>>> Uh...that's a lot. :>)
   >
   >
   >
   >>> ? ?? 5 Single Slots and a mixture of the 4 Double Slots and Zero
   Triple
   >>> ? ?? Slots ( No 10") Plus 2 sets of 17" Boyd Coddington Wheels made
   for
   >> Hall
   >>> ? ?? Pantera.
   >
   >>>> Uh, I don't think Coddington every made wheels for Hall?  He did
   make
   > them for several other vendors, in several different styles, some
   markedly
   > better than others.  Can you share some images perhaps to help in
   > identification?
   >
   > Hall did have somebody cast up ten-spoke Si-looking wheels that were
   welded
   > together, and perhaps Coddington was the source for those?
   >
   >>>> ? ?? And the 17" 10 spokes on the car now with 335/35 and 245/40.
   >>
   >>>> What kind of wheels are those?  10 spokes is a pretty vague
   > descriiption--although I admit I'm pretty certain how many spokes
   they
   have at least. :>
   > )
   >
   >>>
   >>> ? ?? I am keeping the 10 spokes with PZeros for Street use,
   >>> ? ?? And one set of the 17" Hall Wheels with 315/235 Kumhos for
   Rally
   and
   >>> ? ?? Track use.
   >>
   >>>> Wait--are you talking about Coddington Campagnolo clones, or Hall
   wheels
   > which are three-piece, bolt-together affairs, with a fake center
   spinner?
   > Those are as different as chalk and cheese (with the latter being the
   only
   > genuinely suspect/dangerous wheels I've ever encountered).
   >
   >
   >>> ? ?? I will be keeping the Single Slots for Concours with skinny
   >> Blackwalls
   >>> ? ?? and a set of Double Slots with Vintage Arrivas for Photos,
   With a
   >> spare
   >>> ? ?? Front and a Spare Rear in case of a boo boo.
   >>
   >>>> Sounds good!
   >>>
   >>>> ? ?? That leaves 2 full sets of double slot wheels to dispose of.
   Sell
   >> or
   >>> ? ?? Trade. Photos Available.
   >>
   >>>> Somebody just asked for a set--Guy Dellavecchia?  What kind are
   they?
   > Guy might want to trade his '71 two-slot wheels for some L-model
   wheels?
   >
   >>> ? ?? I'd love a Triple Slot set. Anybody have some?
   >>
   >>>> I have only ever seen two of them (separately) in my life.  These
   were
   > an experimental wheel used on the first pushmobile prototype.  I have
   no
   > idea how many were put into production but I've never seen any other
   car
   > wearing them, so I would have to imagine the number is very small
   indeed.
   Even
   > 1006, the earliest known Pantera extant, had single slot wheels.
   >
   > So don't hold your breath waiting for a full set of three-slot wheels
   to
   > appear. :>)
   >
   >>> I will sort them this week by design, Thanks Mike Drew for the
   Campy
   >>> ? ?? Wheel education.
   >>
   >>>> It's my pleasure, but at this point I'm far more concerned about
   your
   > aftermarket wheels.  Simply put, I would never wish three-piece Hall
   wheels
   > on my worst enemy, and especially not for track use.  We collectively
   know
   > about multiple failures, which always led to rapid deflation and a
   potential
   > accident.  Jack has often told of the car that was zorching down Mt.
   Ch
   > arleston in Las Vegas at triple digit speeds one year when his Hall
   wheel
   > dismantled himself; I believe it thrust the car into the scenery, but
   can't
   > remember that aspect of the story for sure.  Jack?
   >
   > Larry Stock had a car on the grass at Concorso that he was trying to
   sell;
   > a rear wheel simply blew apart while the car was parked (!) and he
   had to
   > tow it back to Nevada as it couldn't be fixed--it had cracked halfway
   around.
   > The other three wheels had similar cracks when they were taken apart
   and
   > inspected.
   >
   > And Mad Dog's fire was indirectly caused by the failure of his Hall
   wheel;
   > when the left rear wheel failed, the car fell down onto the freeway
   in Los
   > Angeles.  What wasn't seen was that during the collapse, the brake
   line
   was
   > damaged.  MD swapped his stock wheels w/race tires on and ran the
   Silver
   > State a day or two later, but when he stepped on the brakes at the
   finish
   > line, the line ruptured, fluid sprayed onto the exhaust and the rest
   was
   > history.
   >
   > And on and on and on...I'm sure there are many others.
   >
   > Those wheels were a very well-intentioned design but they were
   woefully
   > under-engineered, and today should be related either to a display
   case, or
   a
   > recycling bin IMHO....
   >
   > So tell me exactly what kind of wheels you're talking about here, as
   the
   > Coddington wheels (which I have aesthetic problems with, admittedly)
   are
   > nothing like these Hall wheels at all.
   >
   >>>> ? ?? Just let a local guy soda blast two of them down to the green
   >> primer,
   >>> ? ?? I'll probably paint them Argent Silver and Clear them just to
   see
   >> the
   >>> ? ?? final results.
   >>> ? ?? Photo attached.
   >>
   >>>> Since I didn't get your original e-mail, I didn't get the photo
   > either....
   >
   > Cheers!
   >
   > Mike
   > -------------- next part --------------
   >  In a message dated 1/10/16 21 39 38, [86]davel at emspace.com writes:
   >
   >    My 17" Hall wheels are a lot heavier than the mags.
   >    I think that's fine for street, but aren't you concerned about the
   >    unsprung weight for track use?
   >    dave
   >
   >>>> Interesting.  This was apparently a reply to an original post by
   >  Michael Shortt, but that post never came through to me nor did it
   wind
   >  up in my spam folder?
   >  I'm noting some irregularities with the forum these days....anyway,
   >  thankfully Dave included Michael's original post, so see replies
   below:
   >
   >>    On 1/08/16 9:17 PM, Michael Shortt wrote:
   >>    Greetings,
   >>
   >>    After gathering all my wheels in one place and a brief
   >    inventory today,
   >>    I have 21 Campy wheels,
   >
   >>>> Uh...that's a lot. :>)
   >
   >>    5 Single Slots and a mixture of the 4 Double Slots and Zero
   >    Triple
   >>    Slots ( No 10") Plus 2 sets of 17" Boyd Coddington Wheels made
   >    for Hall
   >>    Pantera.
   >
   >>>> Uh, I don't think Coddington every made wheels for Hall?  He did
   >  make them for several other vendors, in several different styles,
   some
   >  markedly better than others.  Can you share some images perhaps to
   help
   >  in identification?
   >  Hall did have somebody cast up ten-spoke Si-looking wheels that were
   >  welded together, and perhaps Coddington was the source for those?
   >
   >>>    And the 17" 10 spokes on the car now with 335/35 and 245/40.
   >
   >>>> What kind of wheels are those?  10 spokes is a pretty vague
   >  descriiption--although I admit I'm pretty certain how many spokes
   they
   >  have at least. :>)
   >
   >>
   >>    I am keeping the 10 spokes with PZeros for Street use,
   >>    And one set of the 17" Hall Wheels with 315/235 Kumhos for
   >    Rally and
   >>    Track use.
   >
   >>>> Wait--are you talking about Coddington Campagnolo clones, or Hall
   >  wheels which are three-piece, bolt-together affairs, with a fake
   center
   >  spinner?  Those are as different as chalk and cheese (with the
   latter
   >  being the only genuinely suspect/dangerous wheels I've ever
   >  encountered).
   >
   >>    I will be keeping the Single Slots for Concours with skinny
   >    Blackwalls
   >>    and a set of Double Slots with Vintage Arrivas for Photos,
   >    With a spare
   >>    Front and a Spare Rear in case of a boo boo.
   >
   >>>> Sounds good!
   >
   >>
   >>>    That leaves 2 full sets of double slot wheels to dispose of.
   >    Sell or
   >>    Trade. Photos Available.
   >
   >>>> Somebody just asked for a set--Guy Dellavecchia?  What kind are
   >  they?  Guy might want to trade his '71 two-slot wheels for some
   L-model
   >  wheels?
   >
   >>    I'd love a Triple Slot set. Anybody have some?
   >
   >>>> I have only ever seen two of them (separately) in my life.  These
   >  were an experimental wheel used on the first pushmobile prototype.
   I
   >  have no idea how many were put into production but I've never seen
   any
   >  other car wearing them, so I would have to imagine the number is
   very
   >  small indeed.  Even 1006, the earliest known Pantera extant, had
   single
   >  slot wheels.
   >  So don't hold your breath waiting for a full set of three-slot
   wheels
   >  to appear. :>)
   >
   >> I will sort them this week by design, Thanks Mike Drew for the
   >    Campy
   >>    Wheel education.
   >
   >>>> It's my pleasure, but at this point I'm far more concerned about
   >  your aftermarket wheels.  Simply put, I would never wish three-piece
   >  Hall wheels on my worst enemy, and especially not for track use.  We
   >  collectively know about multiple failures, which always led to rapid
   >  deflation and a potential accident.  Jack has often told of the car
   >  that was zorching down Mt. Charleston in Las Vegas at triple digit
   >  speeds one year when his Hall wheel dismantled himself; I believe it
   >  thrust the car into the scenery, but can't remember that aspect of
   the
   >  story for sure.  Jack?
   >  Larry Stock had a car on the grass at Concorso that he was trying to
   >  sell; a rear wheel simply blew apart while the car was parked (!)
   and
   >  he had to tow it back to Nevada as it couldn't be fixed--it had
   cracked
   >  halfway around.  The other three wheels had similar cracks when they
   >  were taken apart and inspected.
   >  And Mad Dog's fire was indirectly caused by the failure of his Hall
   >  wheel; when the left rear wheel failed, the car fell down onto the
   >  freeway in Los Angeles.  What wasn't seen was that during the
   collapse,
   >  the brake line was damaged.  MD swapped his stock wheels w/race
   tires
   >  on and ran the Silver State a day or two later, but when he stepped
   on
   >  the brakes at the finish line, the line ruptured, fluid sprayed onto
   >  the exhaust and the rest was history.
   >  And on and on and on...I'm sure there are many others.
   >  Those wheels were a very well-intentioned design but they were
   woefully
   >  under-engineered, and today should be related either to a display
   case,
   >  or a recycling bin IMHO....
   >  So tell me exactly what kind of wheels you're talking about here, as
   >  the Coddington wheels (which I have aesthetic problems with,
   >  admittedly) are nothing like these Hall wheels at all.
   >
   >>>    Just let a local guy soda blast two of them down to the green
   >    primer,
   >>    I'll probably paint them Argent Silver and Clear them just to
   >    see the
   >>    final results.
   >>    Photo attached.
   >
   >>>> Since I didn't get your original e-mail, I didn't get the photo
   >  either....
   >  Cheers!
   >  Mike
   >
   > ------------------------------
   >
   > Message: 6
   > Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 12:23:56 -0800
   > From: "Stephen" <[87]steve at snclocks.com>
   > To: <[88]MikeLDrew at aol.com>,    <[89]gaino at earthlink.net>,
   <[90]guson at home.se>
   > Cc: <[91]detomaso at poca.com>
   > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
   > Message-ID: <00d501d14e40$54625920$fd270b60$@snclocks.com>
   > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
   >
   > When I was going through my brakes I wanted to clean out the e-brake
   > housings and the cables.  So, I cut off the cable ends, took
   everything
   > apart, took all the old plastic sheath off the housings, replaced
   with
   heavy
   > shrink-to-fit, cut the housings to be a better fit with less excess
   length,
   > lubed with graphite-impregnated grease, then put new ends on the
   cables to
   > match the length that they needed to be.  Went together very nicely.
   >
   >
   >
   > It would have been pretty much as simple to change length to match a
   front
   > mounting for the originals, but would have likely required cutting a
   pair
   of
   > holes in the sheet metal - I hate extra holes.
   >
   >
   >
   > For what all that is worth.
   >
   >
   >
   > Stephen Nelson
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   > From: [92]MikeLDrew at aol.com [mailto:[93]MikeLDrew at aol.com]
   > Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2016 11:52 AM
   > To: [94]gaino at earthlink.net; [95]steve at snclocks.com;
   [96]guson at home.se
   > Cc: [97]detomaso at poca.com
   > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
   >
   >
   >
   >
   > In a message dated 1/13/16 9 15 10, [98]gaino at earthlink.net
   > <mailto:[99]gaino at earthlink.net>  writes:
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >  Is it possible to mount the stock calipers in the front position to
   use
   >  as Ebrake?  He already has the Wilwoods installed and saftey wired
   on
   >  the rear mounts.
   >
   >
   >
   >>>> People who say 'yes' are forgetting about simple mechanics.  The
   calipers
   > are actuated by cables which are introduced into the rear of the
   wheelwell.
   > If the calipers are repositioned the cables will no longer fit, plus
   if
   > longer ones were used, they would foul the driveshafts on their way
   forward.
   > The only possible way to make a system like that work would be to
   reposition
   > the cables so they entered the wheelwells ahead of, instead of behind
   the
   > hub carriers, and there would be a fair bit of engineering involved.
   I
   > suppose it might be possible, but it certainly won't be a trivial
   exercise.
   >
   > Mike
   >
   > -------------- next part --------------
   >  When I was going through my brakes I wanted to clean out the e-brake
   >  housings and the cables.  So, I cut off the cable ends, took
   everything
   >  apart, took all the old plastic sheath off the housings, replaced
   with
   >  heavy shrink-to-fit, cut the housings to be a better fit with less
   >  excess length, lubed with graphite-impregnated grease, then put new
   >  ends on the cables to match the length that they needed to be.  Went
   >  together very nicely.
   >
   >
   >  It would have been pretty much as simple to change length to match a
   >  front mounting for the originals, but would have likely required
   >  cutting a pair of holes in the sheet metal - I hate extra holes...
   >
   >
   >  For what all that is worth.
   >
   >
   >  Stephen Nelson
   >
   >
   >
   >  From: [100]MikeLDrew at aol.com [mailto:[101]MikeLDrew at aol.com]
   >  Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2016 11:52 AM
   >  To: [102]gaino at earthlink.net; [103]steve at snclocks.com;
   [104]guson at home.se
   >  Cc: [105]detomaso at poca.com
   >  Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
   >
   >
   >  In a message dated 1/13/16 9 15 10, [1][106]gaino at earthlink.net
   writes:
   >
   >        Is it possible to mount the stock calipers in the front
   position
   >    to use
   >        as Ebrake?  He already has the Wilwoods installed and saftey
   >    wired on
   >        the rear mounts.
   >
   >>>> People who say 'yes' are forgetting about simple mechanics.  The
   >  calipers are actuated by cables which are introduced into the rear
   of
   >  the wheelwell.  If the calipers are repositioned the cables will no
   >  longer fit, plus if longer ones were used, they would foul the
   >  driveshafts on their way forward.  The only possible way to make a
   >  system like that work would be to reposition the cables so they
   entered
   >  the wheelwells ahead of, instead of behind the hub carriers, and
   there
   >  would be a fair bit of engineering involved.  I suppose it might be
   >  possible, but it certainly won't be a trivial exercise.
   >  Mike
   >
   > References
   >
   >  1. mailto:[107]gaino at earthlink.net
   >
   > ------------------------------
   >
   > Message: 7
   > Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 21:07:23 +0000
   > From: L GRAY <[108]tipo874a at msn.com>
   > To: "[109]MikeLDrew at aol.com" <[110]MikeLDrew at aol.com>
   > Cc: "[111]guson at home.se" <[112]guson at home.se>,
   "[113]gaino at earthlink.net"
   >    <[114]gaino at earthlink.net>, "[115]detomaso at poca.com"
   <[116]detomaso at poca.com>
   > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
   > Message-ID:
   >
   <[117]BLUPR19MB0163500785FD9792060E49A29DCB0 at BLUPR19MB0163.namprd19.pro
   d.outlook.
   com>
   >
   > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
   >
   >
   > Hate to disagree here Mike. The only uprights that were produced for
   a
   Pantera that were right or left handed were "some" of Hall Pantera's
   aluminum uprights, and they originally had mounts on front and rear.
   For
   some reason later on in production they were built without both sets of
   ears.......... never understood why .......as you said dumb idea !!
   >      The Group 4 uprights were manufactured with both sets of ears.
   Some
   of you may not know that the GT 5 and the GT 5-S rear uprights were
   taken
   from the competition Group 4 spares inventory.
   >
   > Leslie A. Gray
   >
   >> On Jan 13, 2016, at 12:53 PM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso
   <[118]detomaso at poca.com>
   wrote:
   >>
   >>  In a message dated 1/13/16 11 28 28, [119]guson at home.se writes:
   >>
   >>    Yes Bill, most likely. I have installed calipers on the front
   side
   >>    of
   >>    the uprights, the holes were threaded and all. I think I heard
   that
   >>    not
   >>    all uprights are drilled front and back but it may be that only
   >>    newer
   >>    cars that suffer from that.
   >>
   >>>>> True--the GT5/GT5-S uprights are 'handed' with mounting holes
   only
   >>  on one side (which, when you think about it, is really dumb from a
   >>  production standpoint).
   >>  Mike
   >> _______________________________________________
   >>
   >> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
   >> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
   >> DeTomaso mailing list
   >> [120]DeTomaso at poca.com
   >> [121]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   >>
   >> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
   etc.) use
   the links above.
   >
   >
   >
   > ------------------------------
   >
   > Message: 8
   > Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 16:20:31 -0500
   > From: Michael Shortt <[122]michaelsavga at gmail.com>
   > To: 576103 <[123]MikeLDrew at aol.com>
   > Cc: Dave Londry <[124]davel at emspace.com>, "[125]detomaso at poca.com"
   >    <[126]detomaso at poca.com>
   > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Campagnolo Wheels
   > Message-ID:
   >
   <CAEWtxWrnqwjnrhKaKWzkxyc4SnmmwfoeAk1gHft7eVUsB=[127]Di5Q at mail.gmail.co
   m>
   > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
   >
   > none of my wheels are assembled ( fasteners) 3 piece wheels, all are
   welded
   > or billet.
   >
   > I have driven on the wheels on street, on track and on the Tail of
   the
   > Dragon and have had zero issues in 12 years with 2 different designs,
   > not sure who mad ethe current wheels ( 10 spoke ), but they show no
   signs
   > of stress, damage either.
   >
   > It may be my luck, it could be others bad luck, it could be misuse
   and
   > driving style.
   >
   > My Dad owned 3 Audi 5000's, he never had any issues either, maybe
   because
   > he never pressed the gas instead of the brake.
   >
   >
   > Michael Shortt
   >
   >> On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 3:19 PM, <[128]MikeLDrew at aol.com> wrote:
   >>
   >>
   >> In a message dated 1/10/16 21 39 38, [129]davel at emspace.com writes:
   >>
   >>
   >>
   >> My 17" Hall wheels are a lot heavier than the mags.
   >> I think that's fine for street, but aren't you concerned about the
   >> unsprung weight for track use?
   >> dave
   >>
   >>
   >>>>> Interesting.  This was apparently a reply to an original post by
   >> Michael Shortt, but that post never came through to me nor did it
   wind up
   >> in my spam folder?
   >>
   >> I'm noting some irregularities with the forum these days....anyway,
   >> thankfully Dave included Michael's original post, so see replies
   below:
   >>
   >>
   >>> On 1/08/16 9:17 PM, Michael Shortt wrote:
   >>>    Greetings,
   >>>
   >>>    After gathering all my wheels in one place and a brief inventory
   >> today,
   >>>    I have 21 Campy wheels,
   >>
   >>>>> Uh...that's a lot. :>)
   >>
   >>
   >>
   >>>    5 Single Slots and a mixture of the 4 Double Slots and Zero
   Triple
   >>>    Slots ( No 10") Plus 2 sets of 17" Boyd Coddington Wheels made
   for
   >> Hall
   >>>    Pantera.
   >>
   >>
   >>>>> Uh, I don't think Coddington every made wheels for Hall?  He did
   make
   >> them for several other vendors, in several different styles, some
   markedly
   >> better than others.  Can you share some images perhaps to help in
   >> identification?
   >>
   >> Hall did have somebody cast up ten-spoke Si-looking wheels that were
   >> welded together, and perhaps Coddington was the source for those?
   >>
   >>>>    And the 17" 10 spokes on the car now with 335/35 and 245/40.
   >>
   >>>>> What kind of wheels are those?  10 spokes is a pretty vague
   >> descriiption--although I admit I'm pretty certain how many spokes
   they
   have
   >> at least. :>)
   >>
   >>>
   >>>    I am keeping the 10 spokes with PZeros for Street use,
   >>>    And one set of the 17" Hall Wheels with 315/235 Kumhos for Rally
   and
   >>>    Track use.
   >>
   >>>>> Wait--are you talking about Coddington Campagnolo clones, or Hall
   >> wheels which are three-piece, bolt-together affairs, with a fake
   center
   >> spinner?  Those are as different as chalk and cheese (with the
   latter
   being
   >> the only genuinely suspect/dangerous wheels I've ever encountered).
   >>
   >>
   >>>    I will be keeping the Single Slots for Concours with skinny
   >> Blackwalls
   >>>    and a set of Double Slots with Vintage Arrivas for Photos, With
   a
   >> spare
   >>>    Front and a Spare Rear in case of a boo boo.
   >>
   >>>>> Sounds good!
   >>
   >>>
   >>>>    That leaves 2 full sets of double slot wheels to dispose of.
   Sell or
   >>>    Trade. Photos Available.
   >>
   >>>>> Somebody just asked for a set--Guy Dellavecchia?  What kind are
   they?
   >> Guy might want to trade his '71 two-slot wheels for some L-model
   wheels?
   >>
   >>>    I'd love a Triple Slot set. Anybody have some?
   >>
   >>>>> I have only ever seen two of them (separately) in my life.  These
   were
   >> an experimental wheel used on the first pushmobile prototype.  I
   have no
   >> idea how many were put into production but I've never seen any other
   car
   >> wearing them, so I would have to imagine the number is very small
   indeed.
   >> Even 1006, the earliest known Pantera extant, had single slot
   wheels.
   >>
   >> So don't hold your breath waiting for a full set of three-slot
   wheels to
   >> appear. :>)
   >>
   >>> I will sort them this week by design, Thanks Mike Drew for the
   Campy
   >>>    Wheel education.
   >>
   >>>>> It's my pleasure, but at this point I'm far more concerned about
   your
   >> aftermarket wheels.  Simply put, I would never wish three-piece Hall
   wheels
   >> on my worst enemy, and especially not for track use.  We
   collectively
   know
   >> about multiple failures, which always led to rapid deflation and a
   >> potential accident.  Jack has often told of the car that was
   zorching
   down
   >> Mt. Charleston in Las Vegas at triple digit speeds one year when his
   Hall
   >> wheel dismantled himself; I believe it thrust the car into the
   scenery,
   but
   >> can't remember that aspect of the story for sure.  Jack?
   >>
   >> Larry Stock had a car on the grass at Concorso that he was trying to
   sell;
   >> a rear wheel simply blew apart while the car was parked (!) and he
   had to
   >> tow it back to Nevada as it couldn't be fixed--it had cracked
   halfway
   >> around.  The other three wheels had similar cracks when they were
   taken
   >> apart and inspected.
   >>
   >> And Mad Dog's fire was indirectly caused by the failure of his Hall
   wheel;
   >> when the left rear wheel failed, the car fell down onto the freeway
   in
   Los
   >> Angeles.  What wasn't seen was that during the collapse, the brake
   line
   was
   >> damaged.  MD swapped his stock wheels w/race tires on and ran the
   Silver
   >> State a day or two later, but when he stepped on the brakes at the
   finish
   >> line, the line ruptured, fluid sprayed onto the exhaust and the rest
   was
   >> history.
   >>
   >> And on and on and on...I'm sure there are many others.
   >>
   >> Those wheels were a very well-intentioned design but they were
   woefully
   >> under-engineered, and today should be related either to a display
   case,
   or
   >> a recycling bin IMHO....
   >>
   >> So tell me exactly what kind of wheels you're talking about here, as
   the
   >> Coddington wheels (which I have aesthetic problems with, admittedly)
   are
   >> nothing like these Hall wheels at all.
   >>
   >>>>    Just let a local guy soda blast two of them down to the green
   >> primer,
   >>>    I'll probably paint them Argent Silver and Clear them just to
   see the
   >>>    final results.
   >>>    Photo attached.
   >>
   >>>>> Since I didn't get your original e-mail, I didn't get the photo
   >> either....
   >>
   >> Cheers!
   >>
   >> Mike
   >
   >
   >
   > --
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   > Michael L. Shortt
   > Savannah, Georgia
   > www.michaelshortt.com
   > [130]michael at michaelshortt.com
   > 912-232-9390
   >
   >
   > This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy
   > Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally
   > privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby
   notified
   > that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this
   > communication is strictly prohibited.  Please reply to the sender
   that you
   > have received this message in error, then delete it.  Thank you
   > -------------- next part --------------
   >  none of my wheels are assembled ( fasteners) 3 piece wheels, all are
   >  welded or billet.
   >  I have driven on the wheels on street, on track and on the Tail of
   the
   >  Dragon and have had zero issues in 12 years with 2 different
   designs,
   >  not sure who mad ethe current wheels ( 10 spoke ), but they show no
   >  signs of stress, damage either.
   >  It may be my luck, it could be others bad luck, it could be misuse
   and
   >  driving style.
   >  My Dad owned 3 Audi 5000's, he never had any issues either, maybe
   >  because he never pressed the gas instead of the brake.
   >  Michael Shortt
   >
   >  On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 3:19 PM, <[1][131]MikeLDrew at aol.com> wrote:
   >
   >    In a message dated 1/10/16 21 39 38, [2][132]davel at emspace.com
   writes:
   >    My 17" Hall wheels are a lot heavier than the mags.
   >    I think that's fine for street, but aren't you concerned about the
   >    unsprung weight for track use?
   >    dave
   >>>> Interesting.A  This was apparently a reply to an original post by
   >    Michael Shortt, but that post never came through to me nor did it
   >    wind up in my spam folder?
   >    I'm noting some irregularities with the forum these
   days....anyway,
   >    thankfully Dave included Michael's original post, so see replies
   >    below:
   >>    On 1/08/16 9:17 PM, Michael Shortt wrote:
   >> A  A A  Greetings,
   >>
   >> A  A A  After gathering all my wheels in one place and a brief
   >    inventory today,
   >> A  A A  I have 21 Campy wheels,
   >>>> Uh...that's a lot. :>)
   >
   >> A  A A  5 Single Slots and a mixture of the 4 Double Slots and Zero
   >    Triple
   >> A  A A  Slots ( No 10") Plus 2 sets of 17" Boyd Coddington Wheels
   >    made for Hall
   >> A  A A  Pantera.
   >>>> Uh, I don't think Coddington every made wheels for Hall?A  He did
   >    make them for several other vendors, in several different styles,
   >    some markedly better than others.A  Can you share some images
   >    perhaps to help in identification?
   >    Hall did have somebody cast up ten-spoke Si-looking wheels that
   were
   >    welded together, and perhaps Coddington was the source for those?
   >
   >>> A  A A  And the 17" 10 spokes on the car now with 335/35 and
   >    245/40.
   >>>> What kind of wheels are those?A  10 spokes is a pretty vague
   >    descriiption--although I admit I'm pretty certain how many spokes
   >    they have at least. :>)
   >
   >>
   >> A  A A  I am keeping the 10 spokes with PZeros for Street use,
   >> A  A A  And one set of the 17" Hall Wheels with 315/235 Kumhos for
   >    Rally and
   >> A  A A  Track use.
   >>>> Wait--are you talking about Coddington Campagnolo clones, or Hall
   >    wheels which are three-piece, bolt-together affairs, with a fake
   >    center spinner?A  Those are as different as chalk and cheese (with
   >    the latter being the only genuinely suspect/dangerous wheels I've
   >    ever encountered).
   >
   >> A  A A  I will be keeping the Single Slots for Concours with skinny
   >    Blackwalls
   >> A  A A  and a set of Double Slots with Vintage Arrivas for Photos,
   >    With a spare
   >> A  A A  Front and a Spare Rear in case of a boo boo.
   >>>> Sounds good!A
   >
   >>
   >>> A  A A  That leaves 2 full sets of double slot wheels to dispose
   >    of. Sell or
   >> A  A A  Trade. Photos Available.
   >>>> Somebody just asked for a set--Guy Dellavecchia?A  What kind are
   >    they?A  Guy might want to trade his '71 two-slot wheels for some
   >    L-model wheels?
   >
   >> A  A A  I'd love a Triple Slot set. Anybody have some?
   >>>> I have only ever seen two of them (separately) in my life.A
   >    These were an experimental wheel used on the first pushmobile
   >    prototype.A  I have no idea how many were put into production but
   >    I've never seen any other car wearing them, so I would have to
   >    imagine the number is very small indeed.A  Even 1006, the earliest
   >    known Pantera extant, had single slot wheels.
   >    So don't hold your breath waiting for a full set of three-slot
   >    wheels to appear. :>)
   >
   >> I will sort them this week by design, Thanks Mike Drew for the
   >    Campy
   >> A  A A  Wheel education.
   >>>> It's my pleasure, but at this point I'm far more concerned about
   >    your aftermarket wheels.A  Simply put, I would never wish
   >    three-piece Hall wheels on my worst enemy, and especially not for
   >    track use.A  We collectively know about multiple failures, which
   >    always led to rapid deflation and a potential accident.A  Jack has
   >    often told of the car that was zorching down Mt. Charleston in Las
   >    Vegas at triple digit speeds one year when his Hall wheel
   dismantled
   >    himself; I believe it thrust the car into the scenery, but can't
   >    remember that aspect of the story for sure.A  Jack?
   >    Larry Stock had a car on the grass at Concorso that he was trying
   to
   >    sell; a rear wheel simply blew apart while the car was parked (!)
   >    and he had to tow it back to Nevada as it couldn't be fixed--it
   had
   >    cracked halfway around.A  The other three wheels had similar
   cracks
   >    when they were taken apart and inspected.
   >    And Mad Dog's fire was indirectly caused by the failure of his
   Hall
   >    wheel; when the left rear wheel failed, the car fell down onto the
   >    freeway in Los Angeles.A  What wasn't seen was that during the
   >    collapse, the brake line was damaged.A  MD swapped his stock
   wheels
   >    w/race tires on and ran the Silver State a day or two later, but
   >    when he stepped on the brakes at the finish line, the line
   ruptured,
   >    fluid sprayed onto the exhaust and the rest was history.
   >    And on and on and on...I'm sure there are many others.
   >    Those wheels were a very well-intentioned design but they were
   >    woefully under-engineered, and today should be related either to a
   >    display case, or a recycling bin IMHO....
   >    So tell me exactly what kind of wheels you're talking about here,
   as
   >    the Coddington wheels (which I have aesthetic problems with,
   >    admittedly) are nothing like these Hall wheels at all.
   >>> A  A A  Just let a local guy soda blast two of them down to the
   >    green primer,
   >> A  A A  I'll probably paint them Argent Silver and Clear them just
   >    to see the
   >> A  A A  final results.
   >> A  A A  Photo attached.
   >>
   >>>> Since I didn't get your original e-mail, I didn't get the photo
   >    either....
   >    Cheers!
   >    Mike
   >
   >  --
   >  Michael L. Shortt
   >  Savannah, Georgia
   >  [3]www.michaelshortt.com
   >  [4][133]michael at michaelshortt.com
   >  912-232-9390
   >  A
   >  This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy
   >  Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally
   >  privileged.A  If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby
   >  notified
   >  that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this
   >  communication is strictly prohibited.A  Please reply to the sender
   that
   >  you
   >  have received this message in error, then delete it.A  Thank you
   >
   > References
   >
   >  1. mailto:[134]MikeLDrew at aol.com
   >  2. mailto:[135]davel at emspace.com
   >  3. [136]http://www.michaelshortt.com/
   >  4. mailto:[137]michael at michaelshortt.com
   >
   > ------------------------------
   >
   > Message: 9
   > Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 13:23:36 -0800
   > From: "Tomas Gunnarsson" <[138]guson at home.se>
   > To: <[139]MikeLDrew at aol.com>
   > Cc: <[140]gaino at earthlink.net>,    <[141]detomaso at poca.com>
   > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
   > Message-ID: <[142]F6F0EDD7F26440B0970C3CD2C70F6033 at mail2world.com>
   > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
   >
   > Mike,
   >
   > Bill originally wrote: Something that that blocks fluid in the brake
   > lines to hold calipers pressed against the rotors.
   >
   >
   > Aka line loc.
   >
   >
   > OEM electric parking brakes work by having an electric motor actuate
   the
   > brake via a mechanical device, like a wire.
   >
   >
   > Tomas
   >
   >
   >
   > <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
   >
   >        From: Mike Drew via DeTomaso [[143]detomaso at poca.com]
   > Sent: 13/1/2016 8:51:53 PM
   > To: [144]guson at home.se;[145]gaino at earthlink.net
   > Cc: [146]detomaso at poca.com
   > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
   >
   >
   > In a message dated 1/13/16 8 03 59, [147]guson at home.se writes:
   >
   >
   >> That's simply not a good solution. Doesn't work as an emergency
   brake
   >> and parking brake function is dubious. If you park your car with the
   >> brakes hot they may release when they cool off.
   >
   >>>> Tomas, you're talking about a simple line lock. He's asking about
   an
   > (electrical) solenoid-operated system, which was pioneered by the
   OEMs
   > and is
   > in wide use (and is, significantly, sufficiently effective to satisfy
   > government regulations worldwide). Such systems are now available in
   the
   > aftermarket.
   >
   > I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems work by
   > pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple
   mechanical
   > 'arm' that
   > is pulling on a mechanical parking brake? Does anybody know that for
   > sure?
   >
   > You're correct in asserting that a simple line lock is insufficient
   to
   > hold
   > a car for any length of time; they are designed for very short-term
   use
   > only. Geoff Peters' Pantera nearly missed (by less than an inch)
   > crashing
   > into an Aston Martin DB4 when he let a friend borrow it and the fool
   > parked it
   > overnight on a slope in neutral with the line lock engaged. As the
   > brakes
   > cooled at night, they released and the car rolled through a lot
   crowded
   > with
   > collector cars, brushed past the Aston and crashed through a hedge
   and
   > down
   > into a ditch! Fortunately it was unhurt, but it could have been very
   bad
   > indeed.
   >
   > A solenoid-type system that actuated the brake hydraulics would be
   much
   > more effective because it has its own master cylinder that would
   still
   > hold
   > pressure even as the fluid cooled. However, it would not serve as a
   > proper
   > emergency brake if there was a hydraulic failure (say, a seal blew
   out
   > in a
   > caliper) whereas a cable-type system that mechanically leverages the
   > components of the caliper requires no hydraulics to work.
   >
   > Mike (who has had no parking brake at all for the past 30
   years...park
   > wisely and hope for the best!)
   > -------------- next part --------------
   >  Mike,
   >
   >  Bill originally wrote: Something that that blocks fluid in the brake
   >  lines to hold calipers pressed against the rotors.
   >
   >  Aka line loc.
   >
   >  OEM electric parking brakes work by having an electric motor actuate
   >  the brake via a mechanical device, like a wire.
   >
   >  Tomas
   >  <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
   >      From: Mike Drew via DeTomaso [[148]detomaso at poca.com]
   >  Sent: 13/1/2016 8:51:53 PM
   >  To: [149]guson at home.se;[150]gaino at earthlink.net
   >  Cc: [151]detomaso at poca.com
   >  Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
   >  In a message dated 1/13/16 8 03 59, [152]guson at home.se writes:
   >> That's simply not a good solution. Doesn't work as an emergency
   brake
   >> and parking brake function is dubious. If you park your car with the
   >> brakes hot they may release when they cool off.
   >>
   >>>> Tomas, you're talking about a simple line lock. He's asking about
   an
   >  (electrical) solenoid-operated system, which was pioneered by the
   OEMs
   >  and is
   >  in wide use (and is, significantly, sufficiently effective to
   satisfy
   >  government regulations worldwide). Such systems are now available in
   >  the
   >  aftermarket.
   >  I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems work by
   >  pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple
   mechanical
   >  'arm' that
   >  is pulling on a mechanical parking brake? Does anybody know that for
   >  sure?
   >  You're correct in asserting that a simple line lock is insufficient
   to
   >  hold
   >  a car for any length of time; they are designed for very short-term
   use
   >  only. Geoff Peters' Pantera nearly missed (by less than an inch)
   >  crashing
   >  into an Aston Martin DB4 when he let a friend borrow it and the fool
   >  parked it
   >  overnight on a slope in neutral with the line lock engaged. As the
   >  brakes
   >  cooled at night, they released and the car rolled through a lot
   crowded
   >  with
   >  collector cars, brushed past the Aston and crashed through a hedge
   and
   >  down
   >  into a ditch! Fortunately it was unhurt, but it could have been very
   >  bad
   >  indeed.
   >  A solenoid-type system that actuated the brake hydraulics would be
   much
   >  more effective because it has its own master cylinder that would
   still
   >  hold
   >  pressure even as the fluid cooled. However, it would not serve as a
   >  proper
   >  emergency brake if there was a hydraulic failure (say, a seal blew
   out
   >  in a
   >  caliper) whereas a cable-type system that mechanically leverages the
   >  components of the caliper requires no hydraulics to work.
   >  Mike (who has had no parking brake at all for the past 30
   years...park
   >  wisely and hope for the best!)
   >
   > ------------------------------
   >
   > Message: 10
   > Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 13:30:22 -0800
   > From: Larry Stock <[153]larrys at panteraparts.com>
   > To: <[154]MikeLDrew at aol.com>, <[155]davel at emspace.com>,
   <[156]detomaso at poca.com>,
   >    <[157]michael at michaelshortt.com>
   > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Campagnolo Wheels
   > Message-ID: <D2BC0041.15C59F%[158]larrys at panteraparts.com>
   > Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="ISO-8859-1"
   >
   > I am taking in a set of 8?s and 10?s X15? Campy?s with new tires next
   week
   > on a sale and trade I am doing. Since you guys are talking about
   these, I
   > am going to have a set available in the next week or so.
   > E-mail me for more info and details.
   > [159]Larrys at PanteraParts.com (1-800-DeTomaso) 800-338-6627
   >
   >
   > On 1/13/16, 12:19 PM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Mike Drew via DeTomaso"
   > <[160]detomaso-bounces at poca.com on behalf of [161]detomaso at poca.com>
   wrote:
   >
   >>  In a message dated 1/10/16 21 39 38, [162]davel at emspace.com writes:
   >>
   >>    My 17" Hall wheels are a lot heavier than the mags.
   >>    I think that's fine for street, but aren't you concerned about
   the
   >>    unsprung weight for track use?
   >>    dave
   >>
   >>>>> Interesting.  This was apparently a reply to an original post by
   >>  Michael Shortt, but that post never came through to me nor did it
   wind
   >>  up in my spam folder?
   >>  I'm noting some irregularities with the forum these days....anyway,
   >>  thankfully Dave included Michael's original post, so see replies
   below:
   >>
   >>>    On 1/08/16 9:17 PM, Michael Shortt wrote:
   >>>    Greetings,
   >>>
   >>>    After gathering all my wheels in one place and a brief
   >>    inventory today,
   >>>    I have 21 Campy wheels,
   >>
   >>>>> Uh...that's a lot. :>)
   >>
   >>>    5 Single Slots and a mixture of the 4 Double Slots and Zero
   >>    Triple
   >>>    Slots ( No 10") Plus 2 sets of 17" Boyd Coddington Wheels made
   >>    for Hall
   >>>    Pantera.
   >>
   >>>>> Uh, I don't think Coddington every made wheels for Hall?  He did
   >>  make them for several other vendors, in several different styles,
   some
   >>  markedly better than others.  Can you share some images perhaps to
   help
   >>  in identification?
   >>  Hall did have somebody cast up ten-spoke Si-looking wheels that
   were
   >>  welded together, and perhaps Coddington was the source for those?
   >>
   >>>>    And the 17" 10 spokes on the car now with 335/35 and 245/40.
   >>
   >>>>> What kind of wheels are those?  10 spokes is a pretty vague
   >>  descriiption--although I admit I'm pretty certain how many spokes
   they
   >>  have at least. :>)
   >>
   >>>
   >>>    I am keeping the 10 spokes with PZeros for Street use,
   >>>    And one set of the 17" Hall Wheels with 315/235 Kumhos for
   >>    Rally and
   >>>    Track use.
   >>
   >>>>> Wait--are you talking about Coddington Campagnolo clones, or Hall
   >>  wheels which are three-piece, bolt-together affairs, with a fake
   center
   >>  spinner?  Those are as different as chalk and cheese (with the
   latter
   >>  being the only genuinely suspect/dangerous wheels I've ever
   >>  encountered).
   >>
   >>>    I will be keeping the Single Slots for Concours with skinny
   >>    Blackwalls
   >>>    and a set of Double Slots with Vintage Arrivas for Photos,
   >>    With a spare
   >>>    Front and a Spare Rear in case of a boo boo.
   >>
   >>>>> Sounds good!
   >>
   >>>
   >>>>    That leaves 2 full sets of double slot wheels to dispose of.
   >>    Sell or
   >>>    Trade. Photos Available.
   >>
   >>>>> Somebody just asked for a set--Guy Dellavecchia?  What kind are
   >>  they?  Guy might want to trade his '71 two-slot wheels for some
   L-model
   >>  wheels?
   >>
   >>>    I'd love a Triple Slot set. Anybody have some?
   >>
   >>>>> I have only ever seen two of them (separately) in my life.  These
   >>  were an experimental wheel used on the first pushmobile prototype.
   I
   >>  have no idea how many were put into production but I've never seen
   any
   >>  other car wearing them, so I would have to imagine the number is
   very
   >>  small indeed.  Even 1006, the earliest known Pantera extant, had
   single
   >>  slot wheels.
   >>  So don't hold your breath waiting for a full set of three-slot
   wheels
   >>  to appear. :>)
   >>
   >>> I will sort them this week by design, Thanks Mike Drew for the
   >>    Campy
   >>>    Wheel education.
   >>
   >>>>> It's my pleasure, but at this point I'm far more concerned about
   >>  your aftermarket wheels.  Simply put, I would never wish
   three-piece
   >>  Hall wheels on my worst enemy, and especially not for track use.
   We
   >>  collectively know about multiple failures, which always led to
   rapid
   >>  deflation and a potential accident.  Jack has often told of the car
   >>  that was zorching down Mt. Charleston in Las Vegas at triple digit
   >>  speeds one year when his Hall wheel dismantled himself; I believe
   it
   >>  thrust the car into the scenery, but can't remember that aspect of
   the
   >>  story for sure.  Jack?
   >>  Larry Stock had a car on the grass at Concorso that he was trying
   to
   >>  sell; a rear wheel simply blew apart while the car was parked (!)
   and
   >>  he had to tow it back to Nevada as it couldn't be fixed--it had
   cracked
   >>  halfway around.  The other three wheels had similar cracks when
   they
   >>  were taken apart and inspected.
   >>  And Mad Dog's fire was indirectly caused by the failure of his Hall
   >>  wheel; when the left rear wheel failed, the car fell down onto the
   >>  freeway in Los Angeles.  What wasn't seen was that during the
   collapse,
   >>  the brake line was damaged.  MD swapped his stock wheels w/race
   tires
   >>  on and ran the Silver State a day or two later, but when he stepped
   on
   >>  the brakes at the finish line, the line ruptured, fluid sprayed
   onto
   >>  the exhaust and the rest was history.
   >>  And on and on and on...I'm sure there are many others.
   >>  Those wheels were a very well-intentioned design but they were
   woefully
   >>  under-engineered, and today should be related either to a display
   case,
   >>  or a recycling bin IMHO....
   >>  So tell me exactly what kind of wheels you're talking about here,
   as
   >>  the Coddington wheels (which I have aesthetic problems with,
   >>  admittedly) are nothing like these Hall wheels at all.
   >>
   >>>>    Just let a local guy soda blast two of them down to the green
   >>    primer,
   >>>    I'll probably paint them Argent Silver and Clear them just to
   >>    see the
   >>>    final results.
   >>>    Photo attached.
   >>
   >>>>> Since I didn't get your original e-mail, I didn't get the photo
   >>  either....
   >>  Cheers!
   >>  Mike
   >> _______________________________________________
   >>
   >> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
   >> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
   >> DeTomaso mailing list
   >> [163]DeTomaso at poca.com
   >> [164]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   >>
   >> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
   etc.) use
   >> the links above.
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   > ------------------------------
   >
   > Message: 11
   > Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 22:53:34 +0100
   > From: Charles McCall <[165]charlesmccall at gmail.com>
   > To: <[166]MikeLDrew at aol.com>, <[167]guson at home.se>,
   <[168]gaino at earthlink.net>,
   >    <[169]detomaso at poca.com>
   > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
   > Message-ID: <00fd01d14e4c$dac3a170$904ae450$@gmail.com>
   > Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="us-ascii"
   >
   > I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems work by
   > pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple
   mechanical
   'arm'
   > that
   > is pulling on a mechanical parking brake?  Does anybody know that for
   sure?
   > ****Audis use a mechanical parking brake actuated by a solenoid - the
   second
   > case. They do not pressurize the fluid in the line. They have some
   > electronics to ease the brake on if you are moving, but actuating it
   at
   any
   > speed locks up your brakes. They are either on or off.
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   > ------------------------------
   >
   > Message: 12
   > Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 14:02:11 -0800
   > From: "Tomas Gunnarsson" <[170]guson at home.se>
   > To: <[171]charlesmccall at gmail.com>
   > Cc: <[172]detomaso at poca.com>
   > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
   > Message-ID: <[173]72F2415F8F0A41A0BC5857747006BB5D at mail2world.com>
   > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
   >
   > It is more likely a linear actuator driven by a motor. A solenoid
   would
   > not be good as it would need to draw current for the whole time the
   > brakes are on. You can probably hear the motor whine when you flip
   the
   > switch (or whatever) and then it goes silent when the brakes are
   on/off.
   > Where there's legislation requiring a parking brake it's usually also
   a
   > requirement that it's mechanically actuated, hydraulics are not
   allowed.
   >
   > Tomas
   >
   >
   >
   > <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
   >
   >        From: Charles McCall [[174]charlesmccall at gmail.com]
   > Sent: 13/1/2016 10:53:34 PM
   > To:
   >
   [175]MikeLDrew at aol.com;[176]guson at home.se;[177]gaino at earthlink.net;[178
   ]detomaso at poca.com
   > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
   >
   > I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems work by
   > pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple
   mechanical
   > 'arm'
   > that
   > is pulling on a mechanical parking brake? Does anybody know that for
   > sure?
   > ****Audis use a mechanical parking brake actuated by a solenoid - the
   > second
   > case. They do not pressurize the fluid in the line. They have some
   > electronics to ease the brake on if you are moving, but actuating it
   at
   > any
   > speed locks up your brakes. They are either on or off.
   >
   >
   >
   > _______________________________________________
   >
   > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
   > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
   > DeTomaso mailing list
   > [179]DeTomaso at poca.com
   > [180]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   >
   > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
   > use the links above.
   > .
   >
   > -------------- next part --------------
   >  It is more likely a linear actuator driven by a motor. A solenoid
   would
   >  not be good as it would need to draw current for the whole time the
   >  brakes are on. You can probably hear the motor whine when you flip
   the
   >  switch (or whatever) and then it goes silent when the brakes are
   >  on/off. Where there's legislation requiring a parking brake it's
   >  usually also a requirement that it's mechanically actuated,
   hydraulics
   >  are not allowed.
   >
   >  Tomas
   >  <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
   >      From: Charles McCall [[181]charlesmccall at gmail.com]
   >  Sent: 13/1/2016 10:53:34 PM
   >  To:
   >
   [182]MikeLDrew at aol.com;[183]guson at home.se;[184]gaino at earthlink.net;[185
   ]detomaso at poca.com
   >  Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
   >  I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems work by
   >  pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple
   mechanical
   >  'arm'
   >  that
   >  is pulling on a mechanical parking brake? Does anybody know that for
   >  sure?
   >  ****Audis use a mechanical parking brake actuated by a solenoid -
   the
   >  second
   >  case. They do not pressurize the fluid in the line. They have some
   >  electronics to ease the brake on if you are moving, but actuating it
   at
   >  any
   >  speed locks up your brakes. They are either on or off.
   >  _______________________________________________
   >  Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
   >  Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
   >  DeTomaso mailing list
   >  [186]DeTomaso at poca.com
   >  [187]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   >  To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
   etc.)
   >  use the links above.
   >  .
   >
   > ------------------------------
   >
   > Message: 13
   > Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 23:04:27 +0100
   > From: Charles McCall <[188]charlesmccall at gmail.com>
   > To: "'Tomas Gunnarsson'" <[189]guson at home.se>
   > Cc: <[190]detomaso at poca.com>
   > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
   > Message-ID: <010701d14e4e$5fc90440$1f5b0cc0$@gmail.com>
   > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
   >
   > Sorry, you are correct that it is a linear actuator. I answered
   quickly.
   In
   > any case, it is a mechanical actuator and not pressurizing the
   hydraulic
   > line.
   >
   >
   >
   > From: Tomas Gunnarsson [mailto:[191]guson at home.se]
   > Sent: mi?rcoles, 13 de enero de 2016 23:02
   > To: [192]charlesmccall at gmail.com
   > Cc: [193]detomaso at poca.com
   > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
   >
   >
   >
   > It is more likely a linear actuator driven by a motor. A solenoid
   would
   not
   > be good as it would need to draw current for the whole time the
   brakes are
   > on. You can probably hear the motor whine when you flip the switch
   (or
   > whatever) and then it goes silent when the brakes are on/off. Where
   there's
   > legislation requiring a parking brake it's usually also a requirement
   that
   > it's mechanically actuated, hydraulics are not allowed.
   >
   >
   >
   > Tomas
   >
   >
   >
   > <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   > From: Charles McCall [[194]charlesmccall at gmail.com]
   > Sent: 13/1/2016 10:53:34 PM
   > To:
   [195]MikeLDrew at aol.com;[196]guson at home.se;[197]gaino at earthlink.net;[198
   ]detomaso at poca.com
   > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
   >
   > I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems work by
   > pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple
   mechanical
   'arm'
   >
   > that
   > is pulling on a mechanical parking brake? Does anybody know that for
   sure?
   > ****Audis use a mechanical parking brake actuated by a solenoid - the
   second
   >
   > case. They do not pressurize the fluid in the line. They have some
   > electronics to ease the brake on if you are moving, but actuating it
   at
   any
   > speed locks up your brakes. They are either on or off.
   >
   >
   >
   > _______________________________________________
   >
   > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
   > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
   > DeTomaso mailing list
   > [199]DeTomaso at poca.com
   > [200]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   >
   > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
   use
   > the links above.
   > .
   >
   >
   >
   > -------------- next part --------------
   >  Sorry, you are correct that it is a linear actuator. I answered
   >  quickly. In any case, it is a mechanical actuator and not
   pressurizing
   >  the hydraulic line.
   >
   >
   >  From: Tomas Gunnarsson [mailto:[201]guson at home.se]
   >  Sent: miercoles, 13 de enero de 2016 23:02
   >  To: [202]charlesmccall at gmail.com
   >  Cc: [203]detomaso at poca.com
   >  Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
   >
   >
   >  It is more likely a linear actuator driven by a motor. A solenoid
   would
   >  not be good as it would need to draw current for the whole time the
   >  brakes are on. You can probably hear the motor whine when you flip
   the
   >  switch (or whatever) and then it goes silent when the brakes are
   >  on/off. Where there's legislation requiring a parking brake it's
   >  usually also a requirement that it's mechanically actuated,
   hydraulics
   >  are not allowed.
   >
   >
   >  Tomas
   >
   >  <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
   >
   >
   >
   >  From: Charles McCall [[204]charlesmccall at gmail.com]
   >  Sent: 13/1/2016 10:53:34 PM
   >  To:
   >
   [1][205]MikeLDrew at aol.com;[206]guson at home.se;[207]gaino at earthlink.net;[
   208]detomaso at poca.co
   >  m
   >  Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
   >  I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems work by
   >  pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple
   mechanical
   >  'arm'
   >  that
   >  is pulling on a mechanical parking brake? Does anybody know that for
   >  sure?
   >  ****Audis use a mechanical parking brake actuated by a solenoid -
   the
   >  second
   >  case. They do not pressurize the fluid in the line. They have some
   >  electronics to ease the brake on if you are moving, but actuating it
   at
   >  any
   >  speed locks up your brakes. They are either on or off.
   >  _______________________________________________
   >  Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
   >  Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
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   >  To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
   etc.)
   >  use the links above.
   >  .
   >
   > References
   >
   >  1.
   mailto:[211]MikeLDrew at aol.com;[212]guson at home.se;[213]gaino at earthlink.n
   et;[214]detomaso at poca.com
   >  2. mailto:[215]DeTomaso at poca.com
   >  3. [216]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   >
   > ------------------------------
   >
   > Message: 14
   > Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 23:09:38 +0100
   > From: Thomas Tornblom <[217]thomas at hax.se>
   > To: [218]detomaso at poca.com
   > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
   > Message-ID: <[219]5696CB22.5070902 at hax.se>
   > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
   >
   > I believe VW electric parking brake have an electric motor directly
   on
   > the caliper, no cables.
   >
   >
   > Den 2016-01-13 22:53, Charles McCall skrev:
   >> I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems work by
   >> pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple
   mechanical
   'arm'
   >> that
   >> is pulling on a mechanical parking brake?  Does anybody know that
   for
   sure?
   >> ****Audis use a mechanical parking brake actuated by a solenoid -
   the
   second
   >> case. They do not pressurize the fluid in the line. They have some
   >> electronics to ease the brake on if you are moving, but actuating it
   at
   any
   >> speed locks up your brakes. They are either on or off.
   >>
   >>
   >>
   >> _______________________________________________
   >>
   >> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
   >> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
   >> DeTomaso mailing list
   >> [220]DeTomaso at poca.com
   >> [221]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   >>
   >> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
   etc.) use
   the links above.
   >>
   >> !DSPAM:5696c7e73519021468!
   >
   >
   > --
   > Real life:  Thomas T?rnblom            Email:      [222]thomas at hax.se
   > Snail mail:  Banvallsv?gen 14            Phone:    +46 18 32 31 18
   >              S - 754 40 Uppsala, Sweden  Mobile:  +46 76 209 8320
   >
   >
   >
   >
   > ------------------------------
   >
   > Message: 15
   > Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 22:15:16 +0000 (UTC)
   > From: marshall smith <[223]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
   > To: <[224]davel at emspace.com>, <[225]detomaso at poca.com>,
   >    <[226]michael at michaelshortt.com>,    <[227]MikeLDrew at aol.com>
   > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Campagnolo Wheels
   > Message-ID:
   >
   <[228]621399975.3851038.1452723316243.JavaMail.yahoo at mail.yahoo.com>
   > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
   >
   > FYI....
   >
   > I have 17 inch Hall 10 spoke wheels. They have welded centers and
   came
   with a center hub that had a dummy spinner and cone that covered the
   lug
   nuts or you could delete the cone and go with exposed lug nuts.
   > I was told that Boyd made these. Hall called them Mark 10s as I
   recall.
   >
   > Marshall
   > --------------------------------------------
   > On Wed, 1/13/16, Mike Drew via DeTomaso <[229]detomaso at poca.com>
   wrote:
   >
   > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Campagnolo Wheels
   > To: [230]davel at emspace.com, [231]detomaso at poca.com,
   [232]michael at michaelshortt.com
   > Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2016, 12:19 PM
   >
   > ???In a message dated
   > 1/10/16 21 39 38, [233]davel at emspace.com
   > writes:
   >
   > ? ???My 17" Hall wheels are a lot
   > heavier than the mags.
   > ? ???I think that's fine for street, but
   > aren't you concerned about the
   > ? ???unsprung weight for track use?
   > ? ???dave
   >
   > ???>>>Interesting.? This was
   > apparently a reply to an original post by
   > ???Michael Shortt, but that post never came
   > through to me nor did it wind
   > ???up in my spam folder?
   > ???I'm noting some irregularities with the
   > forum these days....anyway,
   > ???thankfully Dave included Michael's
   > original post, so see replies below:
   >
   > ? ???On 1/08/16 9:17 PM, Michael Shortt
   > wrote:
   > ? ???>?
   > ???Greetings,
   > ? ???>
   > ? ???>? ???After
   > gathering all my wheels in one place and a brief
   > ? ???inventory today,
   > ? ???>? ???I have
   > 21 Campy wheels,
   >
   > ???>>>Uh...that's a lot. :>)
   >
   > ? ???>? ???5
   > Single Slots and a mixture of the 4 Double Slots and Zero
   > ? ???Triple
   > ? ???>? ???Slots
   > ( No 10") Plus 2 sets of 17" Boyd Coddington Wheels made
   > ? ???for Hall
   > ? ???>?
   > ???Pantera.
   >
   > ???>>>Uh, I don't think Coddington
   > every made wheels for Hall?? He did
   > ???make them for several other vendors, in
   > several different styles, some
   > ???markedly better than others.? Can you
   > share some images perhaps to help
   > ???in identification?
   > ???Hall did have somebody cast up ten-spoke
   > Si-looking wheels that were
   > ???welded together, and perhaps Coddington
   > was the source for those?
   >
   > ? ???>>?
   > ???And the 17" 10 spokes on the car now with
   > 335/35 and 245/40.
   >
   > ???>>>What kind of wheels are
   > those?? 10 spokes is a pretty vague
   > ???descriiption--although I admit I'm pretty
   > certain how many spokes they
   > ???have at least. :>)
   >
   > ? ???>
   > ? ???>? ???I am
   > keeping the 10 spokes with PZeros for Street use,
   > ? ???>? ???And
   > one set of the 17" Hall Wheels with 315/235 Kumhos for
   > ? ???Rally and
   > ? ???>? ???Track
   > use.
   >
   > ???>>>Wait--are you talking about
   > Coddington Campagnolo clones, or Hall
   > ???wheels which are three-piece,
   > bolt-together affairs, with a fake center
   > ???spinner?? Those are as different as
   > chalk and cheese (with the latter
   > ???being the only genuinely suspect/dangerous
   > wheels I've ever
   > ???encountered).
   >
   > ? ???>? ???I will
   > be keeping the Single Slots for Concours with skinny
   > ? ???Blackwalls
   > ? ???>? ???and a
   > set of Double Slots with Vintage Arrivas for Photos,
   > ? ???With a spare
   > ? ???>? ???Front
   > and a Spare Rear in case of a boo boo.
   >
   > ???>>>Sounds good!
   >
   > ? ???>
   > ? ???>>?
   > ???That leaves 2 full sets of double slot
   > wheels to dispose of.
   > ? ???Sell or
   > ? ???>? ???Trade.
   > Photos Available.
   >
   > ???>>>Somebody just asked for a
   > set--Guy Dellavecchia?? What kind are
   > ???they?? Guy might want to trade his
   > '71 two-slot wheels for some L-model
   > ???wheels?
   >
   > ? ???>? ???I'd
   > love a Triple Slot set. Anybody have some?
   >
   > ???>>>I have only ever seen two of
   > them (separately) in my life.? These
   > ???were an experimental wheel used on the
   > first pushmobile prototype.? I
   > ???have no idea how many were put into
   > production but I've never seen any
   > ???other car wearing them, so I would have to
   > imagine the number is very
   > ???small indeed.? Even 1006, the
   > earliest known Pantera extant, had single
   > ???slot wheels.
   > ???So don't hold your breath waiting for a
   > full set of three-slot wheels
   > ???to appear. :>)
   >
   > ? ???>I will sort them this week by
   > design, Thanks Mike Drew for the
   > ? ???Campy
   > ? ???>? ???Wheel
   > education.
   >
   > ???>>>It's my pleasure, but at this
   > point I'm far more concerned about
   > ???your aftermarket wheels.? Simply put,
   > I would never wish three-piece
   > ???Hall wheels on my worst enemy, and
   > especially not for track use.? We
   > ???collectively know about multiple failures,
   > which always led to rapid
   > ???deflation and a potential accident.?
   > Jack has often told of the car
   > ???that was zorching down Mt. Charleston in
   > Las Vegas at triple digit
   > ???speeds one year when his Hall wheel
   > dismantled himself; I believe it
   > ???thrust the car into the scenery, but can't
   > remember that aspect of the
   > ???story for sure.? Jack?
   > ???Larry Stock had a car on the grass at
   > Concorso that he was trying to
   > ???sell; a rear wheel simply blew apart while
   > the car was parked (!) and
   > ???he had to tow it back to Nevada as it
   > couldn't be fixed--it had cracked
   > ???halfway around.? The other three
   > wheels had similar cracks when they
   > ???were taken apart and inspected.
   > ???And Mad Dog's fire was indirectly caused
   > by the failure of his Hall
   > ???wheel; when the left rear wheel failed,
   > the car fell down onto the
   > ???freeway in Los Angeles.? What wasn't
   > seen was that during the collapse,
   > ???the brake line was damaged.? MD
   > swapped his stock wheels w/race tires
   > ???on and ran the Silver State a day or two
   > later, but when he stepped on
   > ???the brakes at the finish line, the line
   > ruptured, fluid sprayed onto
   > ???the exhaust and the rest was history.
   > ???And on and on and on...I'm sure there are
   > many others.
   > ???Those wheels were a very well-intentioned
   > design but they were woefully
   > ???under-engineered, and today should be
   > related either to a display case,
   > ???or a recycling bin IMHO....
   > ???So tell me exactly what kind of wheels
   > you're talking about here, as
   > ???the Coddington wheels (which I have
   > aesthetic problems with,
   > ???admittedly) are nothing like these Hall
   > wheels at all.
   >
   > ? ???>>?
   > ???Just let a local guy soda blast two of
   > them down to the green
   > ? ???primer,
   > ? ???>? ???I'll
   > probably paint them Argent Silver and Clear them just to
   > ? ???see the
   > ? ???>? ???final
   > results.
   > ? ???>? ???Photo
   > attached.
   > ? ???>
   >
   > ???>>>Since I didn't get your
   > original e-mail, I didn't get the photo
   > ???either....
   > ???Cheers!
   > ???Mike
   >
   > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
   >
   > _______________________________________________
   >
   > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
   > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
   > DeTomaso mailing list
   > [234]DeTomaso at poca.com
   > [235]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   >
   > To manage your subscription (change email address,
   > unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
   >
   >
   >
   > ------------------------------
   >
   > Message: 16
   > Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 22:24:18 +0000 (UTC)
   > From: marshall smith <[236]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
   > To: <[237]davel at emspace.com>, <[238]detomaso at poca.com>,
   >    <[239]michael at michaelshortt.com>,    <[240]MikeLDrew at aol.com>,
   marshall smith
   >    <[241]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
   > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Campagnolo Wheels
   > Message-ID:
   >
   <[242]1003982879.3795306.1452723858144.JavaMail.yahoo at mail.yahoo.com>
   > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
   >
   > Additionally....Hall's 10 spoke wheels have the spokes slanted
   slightly
   inboard or towards the suspension. I believe Wilkinson made a 10 spoke
   wheel
   where the spokes slant outward. These are visually better looking
   giving  a
   semi dished look and have slightly rounded spokes where the Hall's have
   sharp edged spokes.
   >
   > M
   > --------------------------------------------
   > On Wed, 1/13/16, marshall smith <[243]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
   wrote:
   >
   > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Campagnolo Wheels
   > To: [244]davel at emspace.com, [245]detomaso at poca.com,
   [246]michael at michaelshortt.com,
   [247]MikeLDrew at aol.com
   > Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2016, 2:15 PM
   >
   > FYI....
   >
   > I have 17 inch Hall 10 spoke wheels. They have welded
   > centers and came with a center hub that had a dummy spinner
   > and cone that covered the lug nuts or you could delete the
   > cone and go with exposed lug nuts.
   > I was told that Boyd made these. Hall called them Mark 10s
   > as I recall.
   >
   > Marshall
   > --------------------------------------------
   > On Wed, 1/13/16, Mike Drew via DeTomaso <[248]detomaso at poca.com>
   > wrote:
   >
   >  Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Campagnolo Wheels
   >  To: [249]davel at emspace.com,
   > [250]detomaso at poca.com,
   > [251]michael at michaelshortt.com
   >  Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2016, 12:19 PM
   >
   >  ???In a message dated
   >  1/10/16 21 39 38, [252]davel at emspace.com
   >  writes:
   >
   >  ? ???My 17" Hall wheels are a lot
   >  heavier than the mags.
   >  ? ???I think that's fine for street, but
   >  aren't you concerned about the
   >  ? ???unsprung weight for track use?
   >  ? ???dave
   >
   >  ???>>>Interesting.? This was
   >  apparently a reply to an original post by
   >  ???Michael Shortt, but that post never came
   >  through to me nor did it wind
   >  ???up in my spam folder?
   >  ???I'm noting some irregularities with the
   >  forum these days....anyway,
   >  ???thankfully Dave included Michael's
   >  original post, so see replies below:
   >
   >  ? ???On 1/08/16 9:17 PM, Michael Shortt
   >  wrote:
   >  ? ???>?
   >  ???Greetings,
   >  ? ???>
   >  ? ???>? ???After
   >  gathering all my wheels in one place and a brief
   >  ? ???inventory today,
   >  ? ???>? ???I have
   >  21 Campy wheels,
   >
   >  ???>>>Uh...that's a lot. :>)
   >
   >  ? ???>? ???5
   >  Single Slots and a mixture of the 4 Double Slots and Zero
   >  ? ???Triple
   >  ? ???>? ???Slots
   >  ( No 10") Plus 2 sets of 17" Boyd Coddington Wheels made
   >  ? ???for Hall
   >  ? ???>?
   >  ???Pantera.
   >
   >  ???>>>Uh, I don't think Coddington
   >  every made wheels for Hall?? He did
   >  ???make them for several other vendors, in
   >  several different styles, some
   >  ???markedly better than others.? Can you
   >  share some images perhaps to help
   >  ???in identification?
   >  ???Hall did have somebody cast up ten-spoke
   >  Si-looking wheels that were
   >  ???welded together, and perhaps Coddington
   >  was the source for those?
   >
   >  ? ???>>?
   >  ???And the 17" 10 spokes on the car now with
   >  335/35 and 245/40.
   >
   >  ???>>>What kind of wheels are
   >  those?? 10 spokes is a pretty vague
   >  ???descriiption--although I admit I'm pretty
   >  certain how many spokes they
   >  ???have at least. :>)
   >
   >  ? ???>
   >  ? ???>? ???I am
   >  keeping the 10 spokes with PZeros for Street use,
   >  ? ???>? ???And
   >  one set of the 17" Hall Wheels with 315/235 Kumhos for
   >  ? ???Rally and
   >  ? ???>? ???Track
   >  use.
   >
   >  ???>>>Wait--are you talking about
   >  Coddington Campagnolo clones, or Hall
   >  ???wheels which are three-piece,
   >  bolt-together affairs, with a fake center
   >  ???spinner?? Those are as different as
   >  chalk and cheese (with the latter
   >  ???being the only genuinely suspect/dangerous
   >  wheels I've ever
   >  ???encountered).
   >
   >  ? ???>? ???I will
   >  be keeping the Single Slots for Concours with skinny
   >  ? ???Blackwalls
   >  ? ???>? ???and a
   >  set of Double Slots with Vintage Arrivas for Photos,
   >  ? ???With a spare
   >  ? ???>? ???Front
   >  and a Spare Rear in case of a boo boo.
   >
   >  ???>>>Sounds good!
   >
   >  ? ???>
   >  ? ???>>?
   >  ???That leaves 2 full sets of double slot
   >  wheels to dispose of.
   >  ? ???Sell or
   >  ? ???>? ???Trade.
   >  Photos Available.
   >
   >  ???>>>Somebody just asked for a
   >  set--Guy Dellavecchia?? What kind are
   >  ???they?? Guy might want to trade his
   >  '71 two-slot wheels for some L-model
   >  ???wheels?
   >
   >  ? ???>? ???I'd
   >  love a Triple Slot set. Anybody have some?
   >
   >  ???>>>I have only ever seen two of
   >  them (separately) in my life.? These
   >  ???were an experimental wheel used on the
   >  first pushmobile prototype.? I
   >  ???have no idea how many were put into
   >  production but I've never seen any
   >  ???other car wearing them, so I would have to
   >  imagine the number is very
   >  ???small indeed.? Even 1006, the
   >  earliest known Pantera extant, had single
   >  ???slot wheels.
   >  ???So don't hold your breath waiting for a
   >  full set of three-slot wheels
   >  ???to appear. :>)
   >
   >  ? ???>I will sort them this week by
   >  design, Thanks Mike Drew for the
   >  ? ???Campy
   >  ? ???>? ???Wheel
   >  education.
   >
   >  ???>>>It's my pleasure, but at this
   >  point I'm far more concerned about
   >  ???your aftermarket wheels.? Simply put,
   >  I would never wish three-piece
   >  ???Hall wheels on my worst enemy, and
   >  especially not for track use.? We
   >  ???collectively know about multiple failures,
   >  which always led to rapid
   >  ???deflation and a potential accident.?
   >  Jack has often told of the car
   >  ???that was zorching down Mt. Charleston in
   >  Las Vegas at triple digit
   >  ???speeds one year when his Hall wheel
   >  dismantled himself; I believe it
   >  ???thrust the car into the scenery, but can't
   >  remember that aspect of the
   >  ???story for sure.? Jack?
   >  ???Larry Stock had a car on the grass at
   >  Concorso that he was trying to
   >  ???sell; a rear wheel simply blew apart while
   >  the car was parked (!) and
   >  ???he had to tow it back to Nevada as it
   >  couldn't be fixed--it had cracked
   >  ???halfway around.? The other three
   >  wheels had similar cracks when they
   >  ???were taken apart and inspected.
   >  ???And Mad Dog's fire was indirectly caused
   >  by the failure of his Hall
   >  ???wheel; when the left rear wheel failed,
   >  the car fell down onto the
   >  ???freeway in Los Angeles.? What wasn't
   >  seen was that during the collapse,
   >  ???the brake line was damaged.? MD
   >  swapped his stock wheels w/race tires
   >  ???on and ran the Silver State a day or two
   >  later, but when he stepped on
   >  ???the brakes at the finish line, the line
   >  ruptured, fluid sprayed onto
   >  ???the exhaust and the rest was history.
   >  ???And on and on and on...I'm sure there are
   >  many others.
   >  ???Those wheels were a very well-intentioned
   >  design but they were woefully
   >  ???under-engineered, and today should be
   >  related either to a display case,
   >  ???or a recycling bin IMHO....
   >  ???So tell me exactly what kind of wheels
   >  you're talking about here, as
   >  ???the Coddington wheels (which I have
   >  aesthetic problems with,
   >  ???admittedly) are nothing like these Hall
   >  wheels at all.
   >
   >  ? ???>>?
   >  ???Just let a local guy soda blast two of
   >  them down to the green
   >  ? ???primer,
   >  ? ???>? ???I'll
   >  probably paint them Argent Silver and Clear them just to
   >  ? ???see the
   >  ? ???>? ???final
   >  results.
   >  ? ???>? ???Photo
   >  attached.
   >  ? ???>
   >
   >  ???>>>Since I didn't get your
   >  original e-mail, I didn't get the photo
   >  ???either....
   >  ???Cheers!
   >  ???Mike
   >
   >  -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
   >
   >  _______________________________________________
   >
   >  Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
   >  Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
   >  DeTomaso mailing list
   >  [253]DeTomaso at poca.com
   >  [254]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   >
   >  To manage your subscription (change email address,
   >  unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
   >
   > _______________________________________________
   >
   > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
   > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
   > DeTomaso mailing list
   > [255]DeTomaso at poca.com
   > [256]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   >
   > To manage your subscription (change email address,
   > unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
   >
   >
   >
   > ------------------------------
   >
   > Message: 17
   > Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 17:44:23 -0500
   > From: Michael Shortt <[257]michaelsavga at gmail.com>
   > To: marshall smith <[258]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>,
   [259]detomaso at poca.com
   > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Campagnolo Wheels
   > Message-ID:
   >
   <[260]CAEWtxWoBoP_w8V4hEH2fJDsmEVnwB4ueWkX8rJqC7R-FWTFj0A at mail.gmail.co
   m>
   > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
   >
   > Marshall,
   >
   > I have those too, considered having them Powdercoated, but the center
   > treatment would look silly. I have both the spinners and the big
   black
   > lugs. The other set is the 5 spoke from Hall/Boyd.
   >
   > Michael Shortt
   > On Jan 13, 2016 5:15 PM, "marshall smith"
   <[261]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
   > wrote:
   >
   >> FYI....
   >>
   >> I have 17 inch Hall 10 spoke wheels. They have welded centers and
   came
   >> with a center hub that had a dummy spinner and cone that covered the
   lug
   >> nuts or you could delete the cone and go with exposed lug nuts.
   >> I was told that Boyd made these. Hall called them Mark 10s as I
   recall.
   >>
   >> Marshall
   >> --------------------------------------------
   >> On Wed, 1/13/16, Mike Drew via DeTomaso <[262]detomaso at poca.com>
   wrote:
   >>
   >> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Campagnolo Wheels
   >> To: [263]davel at emspace.com, [264]detomaso at poca.com,
   [265]michael at michaelshortt.com
   >> Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2016, 12:19 PM
   >>
   >>    In a message dated
   >> 1/10/16 21 39 38, [266]davel at emspace.com
   >> writes:
   >>
   >>      My 17" Hall wheels are a lot
   >> heavier than the mags.
   >>      I think that's fine for street, but
   >> aren't you concerned about the
   >>      unsprung weight for track use?
   >>      dave
   >>
   >>>>> Interesting.  This was
   >> apparently a reply to an original post by
   >>    Michael Shortt, but that post never came
   >> through to me nor did it wind
   >>    up in my spam folder?
   >>    I'm noting some irregularities with the
   >> forum these days....anyway,
   >>    thankfully Dave included Michael's
   >> original post, so see replies below:
   >>
   >>      On 1/08/16 9:17 PM, Michael Shortt
   >> wrote:
   >>    Greetings,
   >>>
   >>>    After
   >> gathering all my wheels in one place and a brief
   >>      inventory today,
   >>>    I have
   >> 21 Campy wheels,
   >>
   >>>>> Uh...that's a lot. :>)
   >>
   >>>    5
   >> Single Slots and a mixture of the 4 Double Slots and Zero
   >>      Triple
   >>>    Slots
   >> ( No 10") Plus 2 sets of 17" Boyd Coddington Wheels made
   >>      for Hall
   >>    Pantera.
   >>
   >>>>> Uh, I don't think Coddington
   >> every made wheels for Hall?  He did
   >>    make them for several other vendors, in
   >> several different styles, some
   >>    markedly better than others.  Can you
   >> share some images perhaps to help
   >>    in identification?
   >>    Hall did have somebody cast up ten-spoke
   >> Si-looking wheels that were
   >>    welded together, and perhaps Coddington
   >> was the source for those?
   >>
   >>    And the 17" 10 spokes on the car now with
   >> 335/35 and 245/40.
   >>
   >>>>> What kind of wheels are
   >> those?  10 spokes is a pretty vague
   >>    descriiption--although I admit I'm pretty
   >> certain how many spokes they
   >>    have at least. :>)
   >>
   >>>
   >>>    I am
   >> keeping the 10 spokes with PZeros for Street use,
   >>>    And
   >> one set of the 17" Hall Wheels with 315/235 Kumhos for
   >>      Rally and
   >>>    Track
   >> use.
   >>
   >>>>> Wait--are you talking about
   >> Coddington Campagnolo clones, or Hall
   >>    wheels which are three-piece,
   >> bolt-together affairs, with a fake center
   >>    spinner?  Those are as different as
   >> chalk and cheese (with the latter
   >>    being the only genuinely suspect/dangerous
   >> wheels I've ever
   >>    encountered).
   >>
   >>>    I will
   >> be keeping the Single Slots for Concours with skinny
   >>      Blackwalls
   >>>    and a
   >> set of Double Slots with Vintage Arrivas for Photos,
   >>      With a spare
   >>>    Front
   >> and a Spare Rear in case of a boo boo.
   >>
   >>>>> Sounds good!
   >>
   >>>
   >>    That leaves 2 full sets of double slot
   >> wheels to dispose of.
   >>      Sell or
   >>>    Trade.
   >> Photos Available.
   >>
   >>>>> Somebody just asked for a
   >> set--Guy Dellavecchia?  What kind are
   >>    they?  Guy might want to trade his
   >> '71 two-slot wheels for some L-model
   >>    wheels?
   >>
   >>>    I'd
   >> love a Triple Slot set. Anybody have some?
   >>
   >>>>> I have only ever seen two of
   >> them (separately) in my life.  These
   >>    were an experimental wheel used on the
   >> first pushmobile prototype.  I
   >>    have no idea how many were put into
   >> production but I've never seen any
   >>    other car wearing them, so I would have to
   >> imagine the number is very
   >>    small indeed.  Even 1006, the
   >> earliest known Pantera extant, had single
   >>    slot wheels.
   >>    So don't hold your breath waiting for a
   >> full set of three-slot wheels
   >>    to appear. :>)
   >>
   >>> I will sort them this week by
   >> design, Thanks Mike Drew for the
   >>      Campy
   >>>    Wheel
   >> education.
   >>
   >>>>> It's my pleasure, but at this
   >> point I'm far more concerned about
   >>    your aftermarket wheels.  Simply put,
   >> I would never wish three-piece
   >>    Hall wheels on my worst enemy, and
   >> especially not for track use.  We
   >>    collectively know about multiple failures,
   >> which always led to rapid
   >>    deflation and a potential accident.
   >> Jack has often told of the car
   >>    that was zorching down Mt. Charleston in
   >> Las Vegas at triple digit
   >>    speeds one year when his Hall wheel
   >> dismantled himself; I believe it
   >>    thrust the car into the scenery, but can't
   >> remember that aspect of the
   >>    story for sure.  Jack?
   >>    Larry Stock had a car on the grass at
   >> Concorso that he was trying to
   >>    sell; a rear wheel simply blew apart while
   >> the car was parked (!) and
   >>    he had to tow it back to Nevada as it
   >> couldn't be fixed--it had cracked
   >>    halfway around.  The other three
   >> wheels had similar cracks when they
   >>    were taken apart and inspected.
   >>    And Mad Dog's fire was indirectly caused
   >> by the failure of his Hall
   >>    wheel; when the left rear wheel failed,
   >> the car fell down onto the
   >>    freeway in Los Angeles.  What wasn't
   >> seen was that during the collapse,
   >>    the brake line was damaged.  MD
   >> swapped his stock wheels w/race tires
   >>    on and ran the Silver State a day or two
   >> later, but when he stepped on
   >>    the brakes at the finish line, the line
   >> ruptured, fluid sprayed onto
   >>    the exhaust and the rest was history.
   >>    And on and on and on...I'm sure there are
   >> many others.
   >>    Those wheels were a very well-intentioned
   >> design but they were woefully
   >>    under-engineered, and today should be
   >> related either to a display case,
   >>    or a recycling bin IMHO....
   >>    So tell me exactly what kind of wheels
   >> you're talking about here, as
   >>    the Coddington wheels (which I have
   >> aesthetic problems with,
   >>    admittedly) are nothing like these Hall
   >> wheels at all.
   >>
   >>    Just let a local guy soda blast two of
   >> them down to the green
   >>      primer,
   >>>    I'll
   >> probably paint them Argent Silver and Clear them just to
   >>      see the
   >>>    final
   >> results.
   >>>    Photo
   >> attached.
   >>
   >>>>> Since I didn't get your
   >> original e-mail, I didn't get the photo
   >>    either....
   >>    Cheers!
   >>    Mike
   >>
   >> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
   >>
   >> _______________________________________________
   >>
   >> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
   >> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
   >> DeTomaso mailing list
   >> [267]DeTomaso at poca.com
   >> [268]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   >>
   >> To manage your subscription (change email address,
   >> unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
   > -------------- next part --------------
   >  Marshall,
   >
   >  I have those too, considered having them Powdercoated, but the
   center
   >  treatment would look silly. I have both the spinners and the big
   black
   >  lugs. The other set is the 5 spoke from Hall/Boyd.
   >
   >  Michael Shortt
   >
   >  On Jan 13, 2016 5:15 PM, "marshall smith"
   >  <[1][269]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
   >
   >    FYI....
   >    I have 17 inch Hall 10 spoke wheels. They have welded centers and
   >    came with a center hub that had a dummy spinner and cone that
   >    covered the lug nuts or you could delete the cone and go with
   >    exposed lug nuts.
   >    I was told that Boyd made these. Hall called them Mark 10s as I
   >    recall.
   >    Marshall
   >    --------------------------------------------
   >    On Wed, 1/13/16, Mike Drew via DeTomaso
   <[2][270]detomaso at poca.com>
   >    wrote:
   >    A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Campagnolo Wheels
   >    A To: [3][271]davel at emspace.com, [4][272]detomaso at poca.com,
   >    [5][273]michael at michaelshortt.com
   >    A Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2016, 12:19 PM
   >    A A A A In a message dated
   >    A 1/10/16 21 39 38, [6][274]davel at emspace.com
   >    A writes:
   >    A A  A A A My 17" Hall wheels are a lot
   >    A heavier than the mags.
   >    A A  A A A I think that's fine for street, but
   >    A aren't you concerned about the
   >    A A  A A A unsprung weight for track use?
   >    A A  A A A dave
   >    A A A A >>>Interesting.A  This was
   >    A apparently a reply to an original post by
   >    A A A A Michael Shortt, but that post never came
   >    A through to me nor did it wind
   >    A A A A up in my spam folder?
   >    A A A A I'm noting some irregularities with the
   >    A forum these days....anyway,
   >    A A A A thankfully Dave included Michael's
   >    A original post, so see replies below:
   >    A A  A A A On 1/08/16 9:17 PM, Michael Shortt
   >    A wrote:
   >    A A  A A A >A
   >    A A A A Greetings,
   >    A A  A A A >
   >    A A  A A A >A  A A A After
   >    A gathering all my wheels in one place and a brief
   >    A A  A A A inventory today,
   >    A A  A A A >A  A A A I have
   >    A 21 Campy wheels,
   >    A A A A >>>Uh...that's a lot. :>)
   >    A A  A A A >A  A A A 5
   >    A Single Slots and a mixture of the 4 Double Slots and Zero
   >    A A  A A A Triple
   >    A A  A A A >A  A A A Slots
   >    A ( No 10") Plus 2 sets of 17" Boyd Coddington Wheels made
   >    A A  A A A for Hall
   >    A A  A A A >A
   >    A A A A Pantera.
   >    A A A A >>>Uh, I don't think Coddington
   >    A every made wheels for Hall?A  He did
   >    A A A A make them for several other vendors, in
   >    A several different styles, some
   >    A A A A markedly better than others.A  Can you
   >    A share some images perhaps to help
   >    A A A A in identification?
   >    A A A A Hall did have somebody cast up ten-spoke
   >    A Si-looking wheels that were
   >    A A A A welded together, and perhaps Coddington
   >    A was the source for those?
   >    A A  A A A >>A
   >    A A A A And the 17" 10 spokes on the car now with
   >    A 335/35 and 245/40.
   >    A A A A >>>What kind of wheels are
   >    A those?A  10 spokes is a pretty vague
   >    A A A A descriiption--although I admit I'm pretty
   >    A certain how many spokes they
   >    A A A A have at least. :>)
   >    A A  A A A >
   >    A A  A A A >A  A A A I am
   >    A keeping the 10 spokes with PZeros for Street use,
   >    A A  A A A >A  A A A And
   >    A one set of the 17" Hall Wheels with 315/235 Kumhos for
   >    A A  A A A Rally and
   >    A A  A A A >A  A A A Track
   >    A use.
   >    A A A A >>>Wait--are you talking about
   >    A Coddington Campagnolo clones, or Hall
   >    A A A A wheels which are three-piece,
   >    A bolt-together affairs, with a fake center
   >    A A A A spinner?A  Those are as different as
   >    A chalk and cheese (with the latter
   >    A A A A being the only genuinely suspect/dangerous
   >    A wheels I've ever
   >    A A A A encountered).
   >    A A  A A A >A  A A A I will
   >    A be keeping the Single Slots for Concours with skinny
   >    A A  A A A Blackwalls
   >    A A  A A A >A  A A A and a
   >    A set of Double Slots with Vintage Arrivas for Photos,
   >    A A  A A A With a spare
   >    A A  A A A >A  A A A Front
   >    A and a Spare Rear in case of a boo boo.
   >    A A A A >>>Sounds good!
   >    A A  A A A >
   >    A A  A A A >>A
   >    A A A A That leaves 2 full sets of double slot
   >    A wheels to dispose of.
   >    A A  A A A Sell or
   >    A A  A A A >A  A A A Trade.
   >    A Photos Available.
   >    A A A A >>>Somebody just asked for a
   >    A set--Guy Dellavecchia?A  What kind are
   >    A A A A they?A  Guy might want to trade his
   >    A '71 two-slot wheels for some L-model
   >    A A A A wheels?
   >    A A  A A A >A  A A A I'd
   >    A love a Triple Slot set. Anybody have some?
   >    A A A A >>>I have only ever seen two of
   >    A them (separately) in my life.A  These
   >    A A A A were an experimental wheel used on the
   >    A first pushmobile prototype.A  I
   >    A A A A have no idea how many were put into
   >    A production but I've never seen any
   >    A A A A other car wearing them, so I would have to
   >    A imagine the number is very
   >    A A A A small indeed.A  Even 1006, the
   >    A earliest known Pantera extant, had single
   >    A A A A slot wheels.
   >    A A A A So don't hold your breath waiting for a
   >    A full set of three-slot wheels
   >    A A A A to appear. :>)
   >    A A  A A A >I will sort them this week by
   >    A design, Thanks Mike Drew for the
   >    A A  A A A Campy
   >    A A  A A A >A  A A A Wheel
   >    A education.
   >    A A A A >>>It's my pleasure, but at this
   >    A point I'm far more concerned about
   >    A A A A your aftermarket wheels.A  Simply put,
   >    A I would never wish three-piece
   >    A A A A Hall wheels on my worst enemy, and
   >    A especially not for track use.A  We
   >    A A A A collectively know about multiple failures,
   >    A which always led to rapid
   >    A A A A deflation and a potential accident.A
   >    A Jack has often told of the car
   >    A A A A that was zorching down Mt. Charleston in
   >    A Las Vegas at triple digit
   >    A A A A speeds one year when his Hall wheel
   >    A dismantled himself; I believe it
   >    A A A A thrust the car into the scenery, but can't
   >    A remember that aspect of the
   >    A A A A story for sure.A  Jack?
   >    A A A A Larry Stock had a car on the grass at
   >    A Concorso that he was trying to
   >    A A A A sell; a rear wheel simply blew apart while
   >    A the car was parked (!) and
   >    A A A A he had to tow it back to Nevada as it
   >    A couldn't be fixed--it had cracked
   >    A A A A halfway around.A  The other three
   >    A wheels had similar cracks when they
   >    A A A A were taken apart and inspected.
   >    A A A A And Mad Dog's fire was indirectly caused
   >    A by the failure of his Hall
   >    A A A A wheel; when the left rear wheel failed,
   >    A the car fell down onto the
   >    A A A A freeway in Los Angeles.A  What wasn't
   >    A seen was that during the collapse,
   >    A A A A the brake line was damaged.A  MD
   >    A swapped his stock wheels w/race tires
   >    A A A A on and ran the Silver State a day or two
   >    A later, but when he stepped on
   >    A A A A the brakes at the finish line, the line
   >    A ruptured, fluid sprayed onto
   >    A A A A the exhaust and the rest was history.
   >    A A A A And on and on and on...I'm sure there are
   >    A many others.
   >    A A A A Those wheels were a very well-intentioned
   >    A design but they were woefully
   >    A A A A under-engineered, and today should be
   >    A related either to a display case,
   >    A A A A or a recycling bin IMHO....
   >    A A A A So tell me exactly what kind of wheels
   >    A you're talking about here, as
   >    A A A A the Coddington wheels (which I have
   >    A aesthetic problems with,
   >    A A A A admittedly) are nothing like these Hall
   >    A wheels at all.
   >    A A  A A A >>A
   >    A A A A Just let a local guy soda blast two of
   >    A them down to the green
   >    A A  A A A primer,
   >    A A  A A A >A  A A A I'll
   >    A probably paint them Argent Silver and Clear them just to
   >    A A  A A A see the
   >    A A  A A A >A  A A A final
   >    A results.
   >    A A  A A A >A  A A A Photo
   >    A attached.
   >    A A  A A A >
   >    A A A A >>>Since I didn't get your
   >    A original e-mail, I didn't get the photo
   >    A A A A either....
   >    A A A A Cheers!
   >    A A A A Mike
   >    A -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
   >    A _______________________________________________
   >    A Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
   >    A Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
   >    A DeTomaso mailing list
   >    A [7][275]DeTomaso at poca.com
   >    A [8][276]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   >    A To manage your subscription (change email address,
   >    A unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
   >
   > References
   >
   >  1. mailto:[277]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
   >  2. mailto:[278]detomaso at poca.com
   >  3. mailto:[279]davel at emspace.com
   >  4. mailto:[280]detomaso at poca.com
   >  5. mailto:[281]michael at michaelshortt.com
   >  6. mailto:[282]davel at emspace.com
   >  7. mailto:[283]DeTomaso at poca.com
   >  8. [284]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   >
   > ------------------------------
   >
   > Message: 18
   > Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2016 03:51:32 +0000 (UTC)
   > From: Ken Green <[285]kenn_green at yahoo.com>
   > To: Tomas Gunnarsson <[286]guson at home.se>,
   "[287]charlesmccall at gmail.com"
   >    <[288]charlesmccall at gmail.com>,    Scott Bell
   <[289]scott at saccrestorations.net>
   > Cc: "[290]detomaso at poca.com" <[291]detomaso at poca.com>
   > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
   > Message-ID:
   >
   <[292]1037889853.5193710.1452743492663.JavaMail.yahoo at mail.yahoo.com>
   > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
   >
   > Scott at SACC ([293]http://www.saccrestorations.net/) was selling an
   electric
   parking brake actuator kit?for?Panteras.? I'm not sure if it is
   currently
   available, so you'd have to ask Scott.
   > Ken
   > ?
   >
   >      From: Tomas Gunnarsson <[294]guson at home.se>
   > To: [295]charlesmccall at gmail.com
   > Cc: [296]detomaso at poca.com
   > Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2016 2:02 PM
   > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
   >
   > ? It is more likely a linear actuator driven by a motor. A solenoid
   would
   > ? not be good as it would need to draw current for the whole time the
   > ? brakes are on. You can probably hear the motor whine when you flip
   the
   > ? switch (or whatever) and then it goes silent when the brakes are
   > ? on/off. Where there's legislation requiring a parking brake it's
   > ? usually also a requirement that it's mechanically actuated,
   hydraulics
   > ? are not allowed.
   >
   > ? Tomas
   > ? <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
   > ? ? ? From: Charles McCall [[297]charlesmccall at gmail.com]
   > ? Sent: 13/1/2016 10:53:34 PM
   > ? To:
   > ?
   [298]MikeLDrew at aol.com;[299]guson at home.se;[300]gaino at earthlink.net;[301
   ]detomaso at poca.com
   > ? Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
   > ? I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems work
   by
   > ? pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple
   mechanical
   > ? 'arm'
   > ? that
   > ? is pulling on a mechanical parking brake? Does anybody know that
   for
   > ? sure?
   > ? ****Audis use a mechanical parking brake actuated by a solenoid -
   the
   > ? second
   > ? case. They do not pressurize the fluid in the line. They have some
   > ? electronics to ease the brake on if you are moving, but actuating
   it at
   > ? any
   > ? speed locks up your brakes. They are either on or off.
   > ? _______________________________________________
   > ? Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
   > ? Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
   > ? DeTomaso mailing list
   > ? [302]DeTomaso at poca.com
   > ? [303]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   > ? To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
   etc.)
   > ? use the links above.
   > ? .
   >
   > _______________________________________________
   >
   > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
   > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
   > DeTomaso mailing list
   > [304]DeTomaso at poca.com
   > [305]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   >
   > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
   use
   the links above.
   >
   >
   >
   > -------------- next part --------------
   >  Scott at SACC ([1][306]http://www.saccrestorations.net/) was selling
   an
   >  electric parking brake actuator kit for Panteras.  I'm not sure if
   it
   >  is currently available, so you'd have to ask Scott.
   >  Ken
   >    __________________________________________________________________
   >
   >  From: Tomas Gunnarsson <[307]guson at home.se>
   >  To: [308]charlesmccall at gmail.com
   >  Cc: [309]detomaso at poca.com
   >  Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2016 2:02 PM
   >  Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
   >    It is more likely a linear actuator driven by a motor. A solenoid
   >  would
   >    not be good as it would need to draw current for the whole time
   the
   >    brakes are on. You can probably hear the motor whine when you flip
   >  the
   >    switch (or whatever) and then it goes silent when the brakes are
   >    on/off. Where there's legislation requiring a parking brake it's
   >    usually also a requirement that it's mechanically actuated,
   >  hydraulics
   >    are not allowed.
   >    Tomas
   >    <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
   >        From: Charles McCall [[2][310]charlesmccall at gmail.com]
   >    Sent: 13/1/2016 10:53:34 PM
   >    To:
   >
   >
   [3][311]MikeLDrew at aol.com;[4][312]guson at home.se;[5][313]gaino at earthlink
   .net;[6]detomas
   >  [314]o at poca.com
   >    Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
   >    I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems work
   by
   >    pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple
   >  mechanical
   >    'arm'
   >    that
   >    is pulling on a mechanical parking brake? Does anybody know that
   for
   >    sure?
   >    ****Audis use a mechanical parking brake actuated by a solenoid -
   the
   >    second
   >    case. They do not pressurize the fluid in the line. They have some
   >    electronics to ease the brake on if you are moving, but actuating
   it
   >  at
   >    any
   >    speed locks up your brakes. They are either on or off.
   >    _______________________________________________
   >    Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
   >    Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
   >    DeTomaso mailing list
   >    [7][315]DeTomaso at poca.com
   >    [8][316]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   >    To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
   etc.)
   >    use the links above.
   >    .
   >  _______________________________________________
   >  Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
   >  Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
   >  DeTomaso mailing list
   >  [9][317]DeTomaso at poca.com
   >  [10][318]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   >  To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
   etc.)
   >  use the links above.
   >
   > References
   >
   >  1. [319]http://www.saccrestorations.net/
   >  2. mailto:[320]charlesmccall at gmail.com
   >  3. mailto:[321]MikeLDrew at aol.com
   >  4. mailto:[322]guson at home.se
   >  5. mailto:[323]gaino at earthlink.net
   >  6. mailto:[324]detomaso at poca.com
   >  7. mailto:[325]DeTomaso at poca.com
   >  8. [326]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   >  9. mailto:[327]DeTomaso at poca.com
   >  10. [328]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   >
   > ------------------------------
   >
   > Message: 19
   > Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 20:19:16 -0800
   > From: "Scott Bell" <[329]scott at saccrestorations.net>
   > To: "'Ken Green'" <[330]kenn_green at yahoo.com>
   > Cc: <[331]detomaso at poca.com>
   > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
   > Message-ID: <013501d14e82$bc2e21f0$348a65d0$@saccrestorations.net>
   > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
   >
   > Yes, the E-Stopp Electronic Parking Brake Kit is back and available
   to use
   with the stock Pantera rear Calipers or with any aftermarket parking
   brake
   caliper. I will add them back to our website later this week.
   >
   > We offer the kit as it is sold from E-Stopp. The do-it-yourselfer can
   fab
   the brackets needed to mount it in the Pantera. OR, we offer an
   installation
   kit that makes the unit a bolt on upgrade.
   >
   > Interestingly, before I had the E-Stopp installed in my Pantera, I
   almost
   never set my parking brake. Not sure why, maybe because I didn?t like
   how
   awkward the stock unit was to operate. For the stock unit to work it
   really
   needs to be set with a bit or force. Then, to release, I needed to use
   both
   hands. After installing the Electronic unit, I set the parking brake
   every
   time I park the car.
   >
   > In addition to the Electronic Actuator, SACC Restorations is coming
   out
   with a new Parking Brake Caliper Kit that will be a bolt on unit custom
   fitted specifically for the Pantera. This will give owners an
   opportunity to
   upgrade to a great looking, light weight and affordable parking brake
   solution. More to come on the new product in the next few weeks!
   >
   > Scott
   >
   > From: Ken Green [mailto:[332]kenn_green at yahoo.com]
   > Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2016 7:52 PM
   > To: Tomas Gunnarsson; [333]charlesmccall at gmail.com; Scott Bell
   > Cc: [334]detomaso at poca.com
   > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
   >
   > Scott at SACC ([335]http://www.saccrestorations.net/) was selling an
   electric
   parking brake actuator kit for Panteras.  I'm not sure if it is
   currently
   available, so you'd have to ask Scott.
   >
   > Ken
   >
   >
   >  _____
   >
   > From: Tomas Gunnarsson <[336]guson at home.se>
   > To: [337]charlesmccall at gmail.com
   > Cc: [338]detomaso at poca.com
   > Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2016 2:02 PM
   > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
   >
   >  It is more likely a linear actuator driven by a motor. A solenoid
   would
   >  not be good as it would need to draw current for the whole time the
   >  brakes are on. You can probably hear the motor whine when you flip
   the
   >  switch (or whatever) and then it goes silent when the brakes are
   >  on/off. Where there's legislation requiring a parking brake it's
   >  usually also a requirement that it's mechanically actuated,
   hydraulics
   >  are not allowed.
   >
   >  Tomas
   >  <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
   >      From: Charles McCall [[339]charlesmccall at gmail.com]
   >  Sent: 13/1/2016 10:53:34 PM
   >  To:
   >
   [340]MikeLDrew at aol.com;[341]guson at home.se;[342]gaino at earthlink.net;[343
   ]detomaso at poca.com
   >  Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
   >  I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems work by
   >  pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple
   mechanical
   >  'arm'
   >  that
   >  is pulling on a mechanical parking brake? Does anybody know that for
   >  sure?
   >  ****Audis use a mechanical parking brake actuated by a solenoid -
   the
   >  second
   >  case. They do not pressurize the fluid in the line. They have some
   >  electronics to ease the brake on if you are moving, but actuating it
   at
   >  any
   >  speed locks up your brakes. They are either on or off.
   >  _______________________________________________
   >  Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
   >  Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
   >  DeTomaso mailing list
   >  [344]DeTomaso at poca.com
   >  [345]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   >  To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
   etc.)
   >  use the links above.
   >  .
   >
   > _______________________________________________
   >
   > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
   > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
   > DeTomaso mailing list
   > [346]DeTomaso at poca.com
   > [347]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   >
   > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
   use
   the links above.
   >
   >
   > -------------- next part --------------
   >  Yes, the E-Stopp Electronic Parking Brake Kit is back and available
   to
   >  use with the stock Pantera rear Calipers or with any aftermarket
   >  parking brake caliper. I will add them back to our website later
   this
   >  week.
   >
   >
   >  We offer the kit as it is sold from E-Stopp. The do-it-yourselfer
   can
   >  fab the brackets needed to mount it in the Pantera. OR, we offer an
   >  installation kit that makes the unit a bolt on upgrade.
   >
   >
   >  Interestingly, before I had the E-Stopp installed in my Pantera, I
   >  almost never set my parking brake. Not sure why, maybe because I
   didn't
   >  like how awkward the stock unit was to operate. For the stock unit
   to
   >  work it really needs to be set with a bit or force. Then, to
   release, I
   >  needed to use both hands. After installing the Electronic unit, I
   set
   >  the parking brake every time I park the car.
   >
   >
   >  In addition to the Electronic Actuator, SACC Restorations is coming
   out
   >  with a new Parking Brake Caliper Kit that will be a bolt on unit
   custom
   >  fitted specifically for the Pantera. This will give owners an
   >  opportunity to upgrade to a great looking, light weight and
   affordable
   >  parking brake solution. More to come on the new product in the next
   few
   >  weeks!
   >
   >
   >  Scott
   >
   >
   >  From: Ken Green [mailto:[348]kenn_green at yahoo.com]
   >  Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2016 7:52 PM
   >  To: Tomas Gunnarsson; [349]charlesmccall at gmail.com; Scott Bell
   >  Cc: [350]detomaso at poca.com
   >  Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
   >
   >
   >  Scott at SACC ([1][351]http://www.saccrestorations.net/) was selling
   an
   >  electric parking brake actuator kit for Panteras.  I'm not sure if
   it
   >  is currently available, so you'd have to ask Scott.
   >
   >
   >  Ken
   >
   >
   _______________________________________________________________________
   >
   >  From: Tomas Gunnarsson <[2][352]guson at home.se>
   >  To: [3][353]charlesmccall at gmail.com
   >  Cc: [4][354]detomaso at poca.com
   >  Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2016 2:02 PM
   >  Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
   >
   >    It is more likely a linear actuator driven by a motor. A solenoid
   >  would
   >    not be good as it would need to draw current for the whole time
   the
   >    brakes are on. You can probably hear the motor whine when you flip
   >  the
   >    switch (or whatever) and then it goes silent when the brakes are
   >    on/off. Where there's legislation requiring a parking brake it's
   >    usually also a requirement that it's mechanically actuated,
   >  hydraulics
   >    are not allowed.
   >    Tomas
   >    <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
   >        From: Charles McCall [[5][355]charlesmccall at gmail.com]
   >    Sent: 13/1/2016 10:53:34 PM
   >    To:
   >
   >
   [6][356]MikeLDrew at aol.com;[7][357]guson at home.se;[8][358]gaino at earthlink
   .net;[9]detomas
   >  [359]o at poca.com
   >    Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
   >    I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems work
   by
   >    pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple
   >  mechanical
   >    'arm'
   >    that
   >    is pulling on a mechanical parking brake? Does anybody know that
   for
   >    sure?
   >    ****Audis use a mechanical parking brake actuated by a solenoid -
   the
   >    second
   >    case. They do not pressurize the fluid in the line. They have some
   >    electronics to ease the brake on if you are moving, but actuating
   it
   >  at
   >    any
   >    speed locks up your brakes. They are either on or off.
   >    _______________________________________________
   >    Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
   >    Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
   >    DeTomaso mailing list
   >    [10][360]DeTomaso at poca.com
   >    [11][361]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   >    To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
   etc.)
   >    use the links above.
   >    .
   >  _______________________________________________
   >  Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
   >  Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
   >  DeTomaso mailing list
   >  [12][362]DeTomaso at poca.com
   >  [13][363]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   >  To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
   etc.)
   >  use the links above.
   >
   > References
   >
   >  1. [364]http://www.saccrestorations.net/
   >  2. mailto:[365]guson at home.se
   >  3. mailto:[366]charlesmccall at gmail.com
   >  4. mailto:[367]detomaso at poca.com
   >  5. mailto:[368]charlesmccall at gmail.com
   >  6. mailto:[369]MikeLDrew at aol.com
   >  7. mailto:[370]guson at home.se
   >  8. mailto:[371]gaino at earthlink.net
   >  9. mailto:[372]detomaso at poca.com
   >  10. mailto:[373]DeTomaso at poca.com
   >  11. [374]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   >  12. mailto:[375]DeTomaso at poca.com
   >  13. [376]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   >
   > ------------------------------
   >
   > Message: 20
   > Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2016 16:50:07 +0000 (UTC)
   > From: B Hower <[377]b.hower3400 at yahoo.com>
   > To: De Tomaso List <[378]detomaso at poca.com>
   > Subject: [DeTomaso] NPC 91 Merc parts
   > Message-ID:
   >
   <[379]749672874.510825.1452790207343.JavaMail.yahoo at mail.yahoo.com>
   > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
   >
   > Hi all,
   > I am scrapping a 91 Merc Marque. If anyone would happen to need any
   parts
   from same,,,,contact me off forum.
   > ?Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow -- for there may not
   be !
   )
   > -------------- next part --------------
   >  Hi all,
   >  I am scrapping a 91 Merc Marque. If anyone would happen to need any
   >  parts from same,,,,contact me off forum.
   >
   >  Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow -- for there may not
   be
   >  ! )
   >
   > ------------------------------
   >
   > Message: 21
   > Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2016 12:26:12 -0500
   > From: Rob Dumoulin <[380]rob at dumoulins.net>
   > To: Pantera - DeTomaso Mail List <[381]DeTomaso at poca.com>
   > Subject: [DeTomaso] NPC 2000 BMW 740i Sport for whole or parts
   > Message-ID:
   >
   <CAEr4y_vxSUkwzguCsUO6EJwL3z5uDV7+[382]GGdEiL6YXMPoB4H1jw at mail.gmail.co
   m>
   > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
   >
   > Following Bud's lead,
   >
   > The finest road car I have ever owned is being put out to pasture in
   > Northwest Florida.  I've got a 2000 BMW 740i Sport (M body, M rims, M
   > transmission, and M suspension package, but a regular M62 4.4 V8)
   that I
   > have dropped off at my mechanic and advised him I would split any
   profit
   he
   > makes from it.  He is making it pretty to sell.  Catch it quick
   before he
   > sinks money into it for a better deal.
   >
   > Buy it whole, or make it worth our time in parts.  Contact me off
   list if
   > you want to know what it needs mechanically to be right again.
   >
   > Rob
   > 904.476.8744
   > -------------- next part --------------
   >  Following Bud's lead,
   >  The finest road car I have ever owned is being put out to pasture in
   >  Northwest Florida.A  I've got a 2000 BMW 740i Sport (M body, M rims,
   M
   >  transmission, and M suspension package, but a regular M62 4.4 V8)
   that
   >  I have dropped off at my mechanic and advised him I would split any
   >  profit he makes from it.A  He is making it pretty to sell.A  Catch
   it
   >  quick before he sinks money into it for a better deal.
   >  Buy it whole, or make it worth our time in parts.A  Contact me off
   list
   >  if you want to know what it needs mechanically to be right again.
   >  Rob
   >  904.476.8744
   >
   > ------------------------------
   >
   > Message: 22
   > Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2016 12:35:44 -0500
   > From: "Mirril M. McMullen" <[383]mirrilm at earthlink.net>
   > To: "'Rob Dumoulin'" <[384]rob at dumoulins.net>
   > Cc: "'Pantera - DeTomaso Mail List'" <[385]DeTomaso at poca.com>
   > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC 2000 BMW 740i Sport for whole or parts
   > Message-ID: <009b01d14ef1$ff563660$fe02a320$@earthlink.net>
   > Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="UTF-8"
   >
   > Hmmm,
   >
   > Let me guess, cam chains eating the timing cover?
   >
   > /\/\///
   >
   > -----Original Message-----
   > From: DeTomaso [mailto:[386]detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of
   Rob
   Dumoulin
   > Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 12:26 PM
   > To: Pantera - DeTomaso Mail List
   > Subject: [DeTomaso] NPC 2000 BMW 740i Sport for whole or parts
   >
   > Following Bud's lead,
   >
   > The finest road car I have ever owned is being put out to pasture in
   Northwest Florida.  I've got a 2000 BMW 740i Sport (M body, M rims, M
   transmission, and M suspension package, but a regular M62 4.4 V8) that
   I
   have dropped off at my mechanic and advised him I would split any
   profit he
   makes from it.  He is making it pretty to sell.  Catch it quick before
   he
   sinks money into it for a better deal.
   >
   > Buy it whole, or make it worth our time in parts.  Contact me off
   list if
   you want to know what it needs mechanically to be right again.
   >
   > Rob
   > 904.476.8744
   >
   >
   >
   >
   > ------------------------------
   >
   > Message: 23
   > Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2016 12:55:15 -0500
   > From: Rob Dumoulin <[387]rob at dumoulins.net>
   > To: Mirril McMullen <[388]mirrilm at earthlink.net>
   > Cc: Pantera - DeTomaso Mail List <[389]DeTomaso at poca.com>
   > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC 2000 BMW 740i Sport for whole or parts
   > Message-ID:
   >
   <[390]CAEr4y_tsVfHd1sESiSVDnm-VZD7x5PkuiCm2OTmAZ1mJ7ZkmCw at mail.gmail.co
   m>
   > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
   >
   > Not at all.  Cam chain, tensioner, waterpump all changed a few years
   ago.
   > Also, new fan clutch, radiator, belts, and other stuff.  Always got
   > synthetic oil changes regular.
   >
   > 240K miles and a transmission that will not go into reverse when
   engine is
   > hot was the kicker.  That and the interior is showing age.
   >
   > Needs two new coil packs and possibly a VANOS sensor but still glides
   down
   > the road.
   >
   > Rob DuMoulin
   > 904.476.8744
   > [391]rob at dumoulins.net
   > www.kbsi.co
   > [392]http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
   >
   > On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 12:35 PM, Mirril M. McMullen
   <[393]mirrilm at earthlink.net>
   > wrote:
   >
   >> Hmmm,
   >>
   >> Let me guess, cam chains eating the timing cover?
   >>
   >> /\/\///
   >>
   >> -----Original Message-----
   >> From: DeTomaso [mailto:[394]detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of
   Rob
   >> Dumoulin
   >> Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 12:26 PM
   >> To: Pantera - DeTomaso Mail List
   >> Subject: [DeTomaso] NPC 2000 BMW 740i Sport for whole or parts
   >>
   >> Following Bud's lead,
   >>
   >> The finest road car I have ever owned is being put out to pasture in
   >> Northwest Florida.  I've got a 2000 BMW 740i Sport (M body, M rims,
   M
   >> transmission, and M suspension package, but a regular M62 4.4 V8)
   that I
   >> have dropped off at my mechanic and advised him I would split any
   profit
   he
   >> makes from it.  He is making it pretty to sell.  Catch it quick
   before he
   >> sinks money into it for a better deal.
   >>
   >> Buy it whole, or make it worth our time in parts.  Contact me off
   list if
   >> you want to know what it needs mechanically to be right again.
   >>
   >> Rob
   >> 904.476.8744
   > -------------- next part --------------
   >  Not at all.A  Cam chain, tensioner, waterpump all changed a few
   years
   >  ago. A
   >  Also, new fan clutch, radiator, belts, and other stuff.A  Always got
   >  synthetic oil changes regular.
   >  240K miles and a transmission that will not go into reverse when
   engine
   >  is hot was the kicker.A  That and the interior is showing age.A
   >  Needs two new coil packs and possibly a VANOS sensor but still
   glides
   >  down the road.
   >
   >  Rob DuMoulin
   >  904.476.8744
   >  [1][395]rob at dumoulins.net
   >  [2]www.kbsi.co
   >  [3][396]http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
   >  On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 12:35 PM, Mirril M. McMullen
   >  <[4][397]mirrilm at earthlink.net> wrote:
   >
   >    Hmmm,
   >    Let me guess, cam chains eating the timing cover?
   >    /\/\///
   >
   >  -----Original Message-----
   >  From: DeTomaso [mailto:[5][398]detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf
   Of Rob
   >  Dumoulin
   >  Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 12:26 PM
   >  To: Pantera - DeTomaso Mail List
   >  Subject: [DeTomaso] NPC 2000 BMW 740i Sport for whole or parts
   >  Following Bud's lead,
   >  The finest road car I have ever owned is being put out to pasture in
   >  Northwest Florida.A  I've got a 2000 BMW 740i Sport (M body, M rims,
   M
   >  transmission, and M suspension package, but a regular M62 4.4 V8)
   that
   >  I have dropped off at my mechanic and advised him I would split any
   >  profit he makes from it.A  He is making it pretty to sell.A  Catch
   it
   >  quick before he sinks money into it for a better deal.
   >  Buy it whole, or make it worth our time in parts.A  Contact me off
   list
   >  if you want to know what it needs mechanically to be right again.
   >  Rob
   >  904.476.8744
   >
   > References
   >
   >  1. mailto:[399]rob at dumoulins.net
   >  2. [400]http://www.kbsi.co/
   >  3. [401]http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
   >  4. mailto:[402]mirrilm at earthlink.net
   >  5. mailto:[403]detomaso-bounces at poca.com
   >
   > ------------------------------
   >
   > Message: 24
   > Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2016 12:56:57 -0500
   > From: Rob Dumoulin <[404]rob at dumoulins.net>
   > To: Mirril McMullen <[405]mirrilm at earthlink.net>
   > Cc: Pantera - DeTomaso Mail List <[406]DeTomaso at poca.com>
   > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC 2000 BMW 740i Sport for whole or parts
   > Message-ID:
   >
   <CAEr4y_ubKH1kTNF61wqfS+TpW+q2OPZuP=uwOjq5Y=[407]FhZt-Apw at mail.gmail.co
   m>
   > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
   >
   > Forgot to add....I have 6 cars.  I do not need 6 cars.
   >
   > Rob DuMoulin
   > 904.476.8744
   > [408]rob at dumoulins.net
   > www.kbsi.co
   > [409]http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
   >
   >> On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 12:55 PM, Rob Dumoulin
   <[410]rob at dumoulins.net> wrote:
   >>
   >> Not at all.  Cam chain, tensioner, waterpump all changed a few years
   ago.
   >> Also, new fan clutch, radiator, belts, and other stuff.  Always got
   >> synthetic oil changes regular.
   >>
   >> 240K miles and a transmission that will not go into reverse when
   engine
   is
   >> hot was the kicker.  That and the interior is showing age.
   >>
   >> Needs two new coil packs and possibly a VANOS sensor but still
   glides
   down
   >> the road.
   >>
   >> Rob DuMoulin
   >> 904.476.8744
   >> [411]rob at dumoulins.net
   >> www.kbsi.co
   >> [412]http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
   >>
   >> On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 12:35 PM, Mirril M. McMullen <
   >> [413]mirrilm at earthlink.net> wrote:
   >>
   >>> Hmmm,
   >>>
   >>> Let me guess, cam chains eating the timing cover?
   >>>
   >>> /\/\///
   >>>
   >>> -----Original Message-----
   >>> From: DeTomaso [mailto:[414]detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of
   Rob
   >>> Dumoulin
   >>> Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 12:26 PM
   >>> To: Pantera - DeTomaso Mail List
   >>> Subject: [DeTomaso] NPC 2000 BMW 740i Sport for whole or parts
   >>>
   >>> Following Bud's lead,
   >>>
   >>> The finest road car I have ever owned is being put out to pasture
   in
   >>> Northwest Florida.  I've got a 2000 BMW 740i Sport (M body, M rims,
   M
   >>> transmission, and M suspension package, but a regular M62 4.4 V8)
   that I
   >>> have dropped off at my mechanic and advised him I would split any
   profit
   he
   >>> makes from it.  He is making it pretty to sell.  Catch it quick
   before
   he
   >>> sinks money into it for a better deal.
   >>>
   >>> Buy it whole, or make it worth our time in parts.  Contact me off
   list
   if
   >>> you want to know what it needs mechanically to be right again.
   >>>
   >>> Rob
   >>> 904.476.8744
   > -------------- next part --------------
   >  Forgot to add....I have 6 cars.A  I do not need 6 cars.
   >
   >  Rob DuMoulin
   >  904.476.8744
   >  [1][415]rob at dumoulins.net
   >  [2]www.kbsi.co
   >  [3][416]http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
   >  On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 12:55 PM, Rob Dumoulin
   <[4][417]rob at dumoulins.net>
   >  wrote:
   >
   >  Not at all.A  Cam chain, tensioner, waterpump all changed a few
   years
   >  ago. A
   >  Also, new fan clutch, radiator, belts, and other stuff.A  Always got
   >  synthetic oil changes regular.
   >  240K miles and a transmission that will not go into reverse when
   engine
   >  is hot was the kicker.A  That and the interior is showing age.A
   >  Needs two new coil packs and possibly a VANOS sensor but still
   glides
   >  down the road.
   >
   >  Rob DuMoulin
   >  [5]904.476.8744
   >  [6][418]rob at dumoulins.net
   >  [7]www.kbsi.co
   >  [8][419]http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
   >  On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 12:35 PM, Mirril M. McMullen
   >  <[9][420]mirrilm at earthlink.net> wrote:
   >
   >    Hmmm,
   >    Let me guess, cam chains eating the timing cover?
   >    /\/\///
   >
   >  -----Original Message-----
   >  From: DeTomaso [mailto:[10][421]detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf
   Of Rob
   >  Dumoulin
   >  Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 12:26 PM
   >  To: Pantera - DeTomaso Mail List
   >  Subject: [DeTomaso] NPC 2000 BMW 740i Sport for whole or parts
   >  Following Bud's lead,
   >  The finest road car I have ever owned is being put out to pasture in
   >  Northwest Florida.A  I've got a 2000 BMW 740i Sport (M body, M rims,
   M
   >  transmission, and M suspension package, but a regular M62 4.4 V8)
   that
   >  I have dropped off at my mechanic and advised him I would split any
   >  profit he makes from it.A  He is making it pretty to sell.A  Catch
   it
   >  quick before he sinks money into it for a better deal.
   >  Buy it whole, or make it worth our time in parts.A  Contact me off
   list
   >  if you want to know what it needs mechanically to be right again.
   >  Rob
   >  [11]904.476.8744
   >
   > References
   >
   >  1. mailto:[422]rob at dumoulins.net
   >  2. [423]http://www.kbsi.co/
   >  3. [424]http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
   >  4. mailto:[425]rob at dumoulins.net
   >  5. tel:904.476.8744
   >  6. mailto:[426]rob at dumoulins.net
   >  7. [427]http://www.kbsi.co/
   >  8. [428]http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
   >  9. mailto:[429]mirrilm at earthlink.net
   >  10. mailto:[430]detomaso-bounces at poca.com
   >  11. tel:904.476.8744
   >
   > ------------------------------
   >
   > Message: 25
   > Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2016 18:08:58 +0000 (UTC)
   > From: marshall smith <[431]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
   > To: 'Tomas Gunnarsson' <[432]guson at home.se>,
   <[433]gaino at earthlink.net>,
   >    Stephen <[434]steve at snclocks.com>
   > Cc: <[435]detomaso at poca.com>
   > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
   > Message-ID:
   >
   <[436]819779826.4191306.1452794938797.JavaMail.yahoo at mail.yahoo.com>
   > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
   >
   > Yikes....I could never trust my E brake on 'this' hill!
   > --------------------------------------------
   > On Wed, 1/13/16, Stephen <[437]steve at snclocks.com> wrote:
   >
   > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
   > To: "'Tomas Gunnarsson'" <[438]guson at home.se>,
   [439]gaino at earthlink.net
   > Cc: [440]detomaso at poca.com
   > Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2016, 8:21 AM
   >
   > ???Whilst `inelegant',
   > at least the stock system works well.? I installed
   > ???Wildwoods on the front of the discs and
   > kept the originals on the
   > ???back.? I did have the originals
   > coated black - heck, doesn't look that
   > ???bad.
   >
   >
   > ???Stephen Nelson
   >
   >
   > ???-----Original Message-----
   > ???From: DeTomaso [mailto:[441]detomaso-bounces at poca.com]
   > On Behalf Of Tomas
   > ???Gunnarsson
   > ???Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2016 8:03 AM
   > ???To: [442]gaino at earthlink.net
   > ???Cc: [443]detomaso at poca.com
   > ???Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
   >
   >
   > ???That's simply not a good solution. Doesn't
   > work as an emergency brake
   > ???and parking brake function is dubious. If
   > you park your car with the
   > ???brakes hot they may release when they cool
   > off.
   >
   > ???Tomas
   >
   >
   > ???<-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
   >
   >
   > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
   > ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
   > ???From: bill gaino [[444]gaino at earthlink.net]
   >
   > ???Sent: 13/1/2016 4:52:29 PM
   >
   > ???To: [1][445]detomaso at poca.com
   >
   > ???Subject: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
   >
   >
   > ???Is anybody using a solinoid based parking
   > brake? Something that that
   > ???blocks fluid in the brake lines to hold
   > calipers pressed against the
   > ???rotors. My customer does not want the
   > extra set of E brake calipers..
   >
   > ???like IPSCO offers. Bill 1362
   >
   >
   >
   >
   ???[2][446]https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634
   ?ref=ts&
   > ???fref
   >
   > ???=ts
   >
   > ???If you want it slick.
   > [3]www.slickpaint.com like us on facebook
   >
   >
   > ???_______________________________________________
   >
   >
   > ???Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
   >
   > ???Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
   > Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list
   > ???[4][447]DeTomaso at poca.com
   > ???[5][448]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   >
   >
   > ???To manage your subscription (change email
   > address, unsubscribe, etc.)
   > ???use the links above.
   >
   > ???.
   >
   > References
   >
   > ???1. mailto:[449]detomaso at poca.com
   > ???2.
   [450]https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref=t
   s&fref
   > ???3. [451]http://www.slickpaint.com/
   > ???4. mailto:[452]DeTomaso at poca.com
   > ???5. [453]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   >
   > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
   >
   > _______________________________________________
   >
   > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
   > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
   > DeTomaso mailing list
   > [454]DeTomaso at poca.com
   > [455]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   >
   > To manage your subscription (change email address,
   > unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
   >
   >
   >
   > ------------------------------
   >
   > Subject: Digest Footer
   >
   > _______________________________________________
   > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
   > DeTomaso mailing list
   > [456]DeTomaso at poca.com
   > [457]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   >
   >
   > ------------------------------
   >
   > End of DeTomaso Digest, Vol 139, Issue 16
   > *****************************************
   _______________________________________________
   Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
   Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
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   [458]DeTomaso at poca.com
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   To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
   use
   the links above.
   _______________________________________________
   Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
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   To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
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References

   1. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
   2. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
   3. mailto:detomaso-request at poca.com
   4. mailto:detomaso-request at poca.com
   5. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
   6. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   7. mailto:detomaso-request at poca.com
   8. mailto:detomaso-owner at poca.com
   9. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
  10. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
  11. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
  12. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
  13. mailto:guson at home.se
  14. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
  15. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
  16. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  17. mailto:46D238640B764EE3A581C2544BE74A80 at mail2world.com
  18. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
  19. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
  20. mailto:guson at home.se
  21. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  22. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
  23. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  24. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
  25. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
  26. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  27. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
  28. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  29. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  30. https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref=ts&fref
  31. https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref=ts&fre
  32. http://www.slickpaint.com/
  33. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  34. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  35. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  36. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  37. https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref=ts&fref
  38. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
  39. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
  40. mailto:guson at home.se
  41. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  42. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
  43. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  44. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
  45. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
  46. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  47. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
  48. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  49. https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref=ts&
  50. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  51. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  52. https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref=ts&fref=ts
  53. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  54. https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref=ts&fref
  55. http://www.slickpaint.com/
  56. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  57. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  58. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
  59. mailto:guson at home.se
  60. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
  61. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  62. mailto:72fdba.12644e17.43c804d9 at aol.com
  63. mailto:guson at home.se
  64. mailto:guson at home.se
  65. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
  66. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
  67. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
  68. mailto:guson at home.se
  69. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  70. mailto:72fdc9.23690f23.43c804dd at aol.com
  71. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
  72. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
  73. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
  74. mailto:guson at home.se
  75. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
  76. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  77. mailto:72fddd.5edc2feb.43c804e3 at aol.com
  78. mailto:guson at home.se
  79. mailto:guson at home.se
  80. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
  81. mailto:davel at emspace.com
  82. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  83. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
  84. mailto:73161a.56810af3.43c80b47 at aol.com
  85. mailto:davel at emspace.com
  86. mailto:davel at emspace.com
  87. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
  88. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
  89. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
  90. mailto:guson at home.se
  91. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  92. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
  93. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
  94. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
  95. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
  96. mailto:guson at home.se
  97. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  98. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
  99. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
 100. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
 101. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
 102. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
 103. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
 104. mailto:guson at home.se
 105. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 106. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
 107. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
 108. mailto:tipo874a at msn.com
 109. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
 110. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
 111. mailto:guson at home.se
 112. mailto:guson at home.se
 113. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
 114. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
 115. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 116. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 117. mailto:BLUPR19MB0163500785FD9792060E49A29DCB0 at BLUPR19MB0163.namprd19.prod.outlook.
 118. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 119. mailto:guson at home.se
 120. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
 121. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
 122. mailto:michaelsavga at gmail.com
 123. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
 124. mailto:davel at emspace.com
 125. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 126. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 127. mailto:Di5Q at mail.gmail.com
 128. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
 129. mailto:davel at emspace.com
 130. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
 131. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
 132. mailto:davel at emspace.com
 133. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
 134. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
 135. mailto:davel at emspace.com
 136. http://www.michaelshortt.com/
 137. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
 138. mailto:guson at home.se
 139. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
 140. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
 141. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 142. mailto:F6F0EDD7F26440B0970C3CD2C70F6033 at mail2world.com
 143. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 144. mailto:guson at home.se
 145. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
 146. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 147. mailto:guson at home.se
 148. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 149. mailto:guson at home.se
 150. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
 151. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 152. mailto:guson at home.se
 153. mailto:larrys at panteraparts.com
 154. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
 155. mailto:davel at emspace.com
 156. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 157. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
 158. mailto:larrys at panteraparts.com
 159. mailto:Larrys at PanteraParts.com
 160. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
 161. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 162. mailto:davel at emspace.com
 163. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
 164. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
 165. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
 166. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
 167. mailto:guson at home.se
 168. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
 169. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 170. mailto:guson at home.se
 171. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
 172. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 173. mailto:72F2415F8F0A41A0BC5857747006BB5D at mail2world.com
 174. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
 175. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
 176. mailto:guson at home.se
 177. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
 178. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 179. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
 180. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
 181. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
 182. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
 183. mailto:guson at home.se
 184. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
 185. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 186. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
 187. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
 188. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
 189. mailto:guson at home.se
 190. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 191. mailto:guson at home.se
 192. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
 193. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 194. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
 195. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
 196. mailto:guson at home.se
 197. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
 198. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 199. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
 200. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
 201. mailto:guson at home.se
 202. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
 203. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 204. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
 205. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
 206. mailto:guson at home.se
 207. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
 208. mailto:detomaso at poca.co
 209. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
 210. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
 211. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
 212. mailto:guson at home.se
 213. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
 214. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 215. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
 216. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
 217. mailto:thomas at hax.se
 218. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 219. mailto:5696CB22.5070902 at hax.se
 220. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
 221. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
 222. mailto:thomas at hax.se
 223. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
 224. mailto:davel at emspace.com
 225. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 226. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
 227. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
 228. mailto:621399975.3851038.1452723316243.JavaMail.yahoo at mail.yahoo.com
 229. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 230. mailto:davel at emspace.com
 231. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 232. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
 233. mailto:davel at emspace.com
 234. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
 235. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
 236. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
 237. mailto:davel at emspace.com
 238. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 239. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
 240. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
 241. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
 242. mailto:1003982879.3795306.1452723858144.JavaMail.yahoo at mail.yahoo.com
 243. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
 244. mailto:davel at emspace.com
 245. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 246. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
 247. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
 248. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 249. mailto:davel at emspace.com
 250. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 251. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
 252. mailto:davel at emspace.com
 253. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
 254. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
 255. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
 256. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
 257. mailto:michaelsavga at gmail.com
 258. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
 259. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 260. mailto:CAEWtxWoBoP_w8V4hEH2fJDsmEVnwB4ueWkX8rJqC7R-FWTFj0A at mail.gmail.com
 261. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
 262. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 263. mailto:davel at emspace.com
 264. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 265. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
 266. mailto:davel at emspace.com
 267. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
 268. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
 269. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
 270. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 271. mailto:davel at emspace.com
 272. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 273. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
 274. mailto:davel at emspace.com
 275. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
 276. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
 277. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
 278. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 279. mailto:davel at emspace.com
 280. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 281. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
 282. mailto:davel at emspace.com
 283. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
 284. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
 285. mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com
 286. mailto:guson at home.se
 287. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
 288. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
 289. mailto:scott at saccrestorations.net
 290. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 291. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 292. mailto:1037889853.5193710.1452743492663.JavaMail.yahoo at mail.yahoo.com
 293. http://www.saccrestorations.net/
 294. mailto:guson at home.se
 295. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
 296. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 297. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
 298. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
 299. mailto:guson at home.se
 300. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
 301. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 302. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
 303. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
 304. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
 305. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
 306. http://www.saccrestorations.net/
 307. mailto:guson at home.se
 308. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
 309. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 310. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
 311. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
 312. mailto:guson at home.se
 313. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
 314. mailto:o at poca.com
 315. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
 316. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
 317. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
 318. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
 319. http://www.saccrestorations.net/
 320. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
 321. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
 322. mailto:guson at home.se
 323. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
 324. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 325. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
 326. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
 327. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
 328. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
 329. mailto:scott at saccrestorations.net
 330. mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com
 331. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 332. mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com
 333. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
 334. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 335. http://www.saccrestorations.net/
 336. mailto:guson at home.se
 337. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
 338. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 339. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
 340. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
 341. mailto:guson at home.se
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 343. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 344. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
 345. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
 346. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
 347. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
 348. mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com
 349. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
 350. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 351. http://www.saccrestorations.net/
 352. mailto:guson at home.se
 353. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
 354. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 355. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
 356. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
 357. mailto:guson at home.se
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 359. mailto:o at poca.com
 360. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
 361. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
 362. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
 363. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
 364. http://www.saccrestorations.net/
 365. mailto:guson at home.se
 366. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
 367. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 368. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
 369. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
 370. mailto:guson at home.se
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 372. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
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 374. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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 376. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
 377. mailto:b.hower3400 at yahoo.com
 378. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 379. mailto:749672874.510825.1452790207343.JavaMail.yahoo at mail.yahoo.com
 380. mailto:rob at dumoulins.net
 381. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
 382. mailto:GGdEiL6YXMPoB4H1jw at mail.gmail.com
 383. mailto:mirrilm at earthlink.net
 384. mailto:rob at dumoulins.net
 385. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
 386. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
 387. mailto:rob at dumoulins.net
 388. mailto:mirrilm at earthlink.net
 389. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
 390. mailto:CAEr4y_tsVfHd1sESiSVDnm-VZD7x5PkuiCm2OTmAZ1mJ7ZkmCw at mail.gmail.com
 391. mailto:rob at dumoulins.net
 392. http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
 393. mailto:mirrilm at earthlink.net
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 395. mailto:rob at dumoulins.net
 396. http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
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 399. mailto:rob at dumoulins.net
 400. http://www.kbsi.co/
 401. http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
 402. mailto:mirrilm at earthlink.net
 403. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
 404. mailto:rob at dumoulins.net
 405. mailto:mirrilm at earthlink.net
 406. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
 407. mailto:FhZt-Apw at mail.gmail.com
 408. mailto:rob at dumoulins.net
 409. http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
 410. mailto:rob at dumoulins.net
 411. mailto:rob at dumoulins.net
 412. http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
 413. mailto:mirrilm at earthlink.net
 414. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
 415. mailto:rob at dumoulins.net
 416. http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
 417. mailto:rob at dumoulins.net
 418. mailto:rob at dumoulins.net
 419. http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
 420. mailto:mirrilm at earthlink.net
 421. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
 422. mailto:rob at dumoulins.net
 423. http://www.kbsi.co/
 424. http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
 425. mailto:rob at dumoulins.net
 426. mailto:rob at dumoulins.net
 427. http://www.kbsi.co/
 428. http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
 429. mailto:mirrilm at earthlink.net
 430. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
 431. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
 432. mailto:guson at home.se
 433. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
 434. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
 435. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 436. mailto:819779826.4191306.1452794938797.JavaMail.yahoo at mail.yahoo.com
 437. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
 438. mailto:guson at home.se
 439. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
 440. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 441. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
 442. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
 443. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 444. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
 445. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 446. https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref=ts&
 447. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
 448. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
 449. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 450. https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref=ts&fref
 451. http://www.slickpaint.com/
 452. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
 453. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
 454. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
 455. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
 456. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
 457. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
 458. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
 459. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
 460. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
 461. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com


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