[DeTomaso] DeTomaso Digest, Vol 139, Issue 16
Michael Shortt
michaelsavga at gmail.com
Thu Jan 14 19:16:42 EST 2016
i have pnly seen Aluminum shields myself, for those I would offer the
shield alone should provide enough protection in both actual physical
blockage, radiant and reflective heat.
IMHO, any additional would only serve to insulate or retain heat.
Michael Shortt
On Jan 14, 2016 6:59 PM, "tom ware" <ace595 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Gas tank shield ?
> I have a new stainless steel shield that came with my project.
> Is it the norm to insulate it for heat.?
> Thanks
> Tom
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Jan 14, 2016, at 2:00 PM, <detomaso-request at poca.com> <
> detomaso-request at poca.com> wrote:
> >
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> > than "Re: Contents of DeTomaso digest..."
> >
> >
> > Daily Detomaso List Digest
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> > 1. Re: parking brakes (Tomas Gunnarsson)
> > 2. Re: parking brakes (MikeLDrew at aol.com)
> > 3. Re: parking brakes (MikeLDrew at aol.com)
> > 4. Re: parking brakes (MikeLDrew at aol.com)
> > 5. Re: Campagnolo Wheels (MikeLDrew at aol.com)
> > 6. Re: parking brakes (Stephen)
> > 7. Re: parking brakes (L GRAY)
> > 8. Re: Campagnolo Wheels (Michael Shortt)
> > 9. Re: parking brakes (Tomas Gunnarsson)
> > 10. Re: Campagnolo Wheels (Larry Stock)
> > 11. Re: parking brakes (Charles McCall)
> > 12. Re: parking brakes (Tomas Gunnarsson)
> > 13. Re: parking brakes (Charles McCall)
> > 14. Re: parking brakes (Thomas Tornblom)
> > 15. Re: Campagnolo Wheels (marshall smith)
> > 16. Re: Campagnolo Wheels (marshall smith)
> > 17. Re: Campagnolo Wheels (Michael Shortt)
> > 18. Re: parking brakes (Ken Green)
> > 19. Re: parking brakes (Scott Bell)
> > 20. NPC 91 Merc parts (B Hower)
> > 21. NPC 2000 BMW 740i Sport for whole or parts (Rob Dumoulin)
> > 22. Re: NPC 2000 BMW 740i Sport for whole or parts
> > (Mirril M. McMullen)
> > 23. Re: NPC 2000 BMW 740i Sport for whole or parts (Rob Dumoulin)
> > 24. Re: NPC 2000 BMW 740i Sport for whole or parts (Rob Dumoulin)
> > 25. Re: parking brakes (marshall smith)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 11:27:31 -0800
> > From: "Tomas Gunnarsson" <guson at home.se>
> > To: <gaino at earthlink.net>
> > Cc: <steve at snclocks.com>, <detomaso at poca.com>
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> > Message-ID: <46D238640B764EE3A581C2544BE74A80 at mail2world.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> > Yes Bill, most likely. I have installed calipers on the front side of
> > the uprights, the holes were threaded and all. I think I heard that not
> > all uprights are drilled front and back but it may be that only newer
> > cars that suffer from that.
> >
> > Tomas
> >
> >
> >
> > <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
> >
> > From: bill gaino [gaino at earthlink.net]
> > Sent: 13/1/2016 6:13:51 PM
> > To: steve at snclocks.com;guson at home.se
> > Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> > Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> >
> >
> > Is it possible to mount the stock calipers in the front position to use
> > as Ebrake? He already has the Wilwoods installed and saftey wired on
> > the rear mounts..Bill 1362
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Stephen
> > Sent: Jan 13, 2016 11:21 AM
> > To: 'Tomas Gunnarsson' , gaino at earthlink.net
> > Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> > Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> >
> >
> >
> > Whilst 'inelegant', at least the stock system works well. I
> > installed Wildwoods on the front of the discs and kept the originals on
> > the back. I did have the originals coated black - heck, doesn't look
> > that bad.
> >
> >
> >
> > Stephen Nelson
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of
> > Tomas Gunnarsson
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2016 8:03 AM
> > To: gaino at earthlink.net
> > Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> >
> >
> >
> > That's simply not a good solution. Doesn't work as an emergency
> > brake and parking brake function is dubious. If you park your car with
> > the brakes hot they may release when they cool off.
> >
> >
> >
> > Tomas
> >
> >
> >
> > <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
> >
> >
> >
> > From: bill gaino
> > [gaino at earthlink.net]
> >
> > Sent: 13/1/2016 4:52:29 PM
> >
> > To: detomaso at poca.com <mailto:detomaso at poca.com>
> >
> > Subject: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> >
> >
> >
> > Is anybody using a solinoid based parking brake? Something that
> > that blocks fluid in the brake lines to hold calipers pressed against
> > the rotors. My customer does not want the extra set of E brake
> > calipers..
> >
> > like IPSCO offers. Bill 1362
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref=ts&fref
> > <https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref=ts&fre
> > f>
> >
> > =ts
> >
> > If you want it slick. www.slickpaint.com
> > <http://www.slickpaint.com> like us on facebook
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >
> > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing
> > list DeTomaso at poca.com <mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com>
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> >
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> > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
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> >
> >
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> > https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref=ts&fref
> > =ts
> > If you want it slick. www.slickpaint.com like us on facebook
> >
> >
> > .
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > Yes Bill, most likely. I have installed calipers on the front side of
> > the uprights, the holes were threaded and all. I think I heard that not
> > all uprights are drilled front and back but it may be that only newer
> > cars that suffer from that.
> >
> > Tomas
> > <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
> > From: bill gaino [gaino at earthlink.net]
> > Sent: 13/1/2016 6:13:51 PM
> > To: steve at snclocks.com;guson at home.se
> > Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> > Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> > Is it possible to mount the stock calipers in the front position to use
> > as Ebrake? He already has the Wilwoods installed and saftey wired on
> > the rear mounts..Bill 1362
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Stephen
> > Sent: Jan 13, 2016 11:21 AM
> > To: 'Tomas Gunnarsson' , gaino at earthlink.net
> > Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> > Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> >
> > Whilst `inelegant', at least the stock system works well. I installed
> > Wildwoods on the front of the discs and kept the originals on the
> > back. I did have the originals coated black - heck, doesn't look that
> > bad.
> >
> >
> > Stephen Nelson
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of Tomas
> > Gunnarsson
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2016 8:03 AM
> > To: gaino at earthlink.net
> > Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> >
> >
> > That's simply not a good solution. Doesn't work as an emergency brake
> > and parking brake function is dubious. If you park your car with the
> > brakes hot they may release when they cool off.
> >
> > Tomas
> >
> >
> > <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
> >
> >
> > From: bill gaino [gaino at earthlink.net]
> >
> > Sent: 13/1/2016 4:52:29 PM
> >
> > To: [1]detomaso at poca.com
> >
> > Subject: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> >
> >
> > Is anybody using a solinoid based parking brake? Something that that
> > blocks fluid in the brake lines to hold calipers pressed against the
> > rotors. My customer does not want the extra set of E brake calipers..
> >
> > like IPSCO offers. Bill 1362
> >
> >
> >
> > [2]
> https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref=ts&
> > fref
> >
> > =ts
> >
> > If you want it slick. [3]www.slickpaint.com like us on facebook
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >
> > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list
> > [4]DeTomaso at poca.com
> > [5]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> >
> >
> > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> > use the links above.
> >
> > .
> >
> >
> >
> https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref=ts&fref=ts
> > If you want it slick. www.slickpaint.com like us on facebook
> >
> > .
> >
> > References
> >
> > 1. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> > 2.
> https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref=ts&fref
> > 3. http://www.slickpaint.com/
> > 4. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> > 5. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 14:51:53 -0500
> > From: MikeLDrew at aol.com
> > To: guson at home.se, gaino at earthlink.net
> > Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> > Message-ID: <72fdba.12644e17.43c804d9 at aol.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 1/13/16 8 03 59, guson at home.se writes:
> >
> >
> >> That's simply not a good solution. Doesn't work as an emergency brake
> >> and parking brake function is dubious. If you park your car with the
> >> brakes hot they may release when they cool off.
> >
> >>>> Tomas, you're talking about a simple line lock. He's asking about an
> > (electrical) solenoid-operated system, which was pioneered by the OEMs
> and is
> > in wide use (and is, significantly, sufficiently effective to satisfy
> > government regulations worldwide). Such systems are now available in
> the
> > aftermarket.
> >
> > I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems work by
> > pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple mechanical
> 'arm' that
> > is pulling on a mechanical parking brake? Does anybody know that for
> sure?
> >
> > You're correct in asserting that a simple line lock is insufficient to
> hold
> > a car for any length of time; they are designed for very short-term use
> > only. Geoff Peters' Pantera nearly missed (by less than an inch)
> crashing
> > into an Aston Martin DB4 when he let a friend borrow it and the fool
> parked it
> > overnight on a slope in neutral with the line lock engaged. As the
> brakes
> > cooled at night, they released and the car rolled through a lot crowded
> with
> > collector cars, brushed past the Aston and crashed through a hedge and
> down
> > into a ditch! Fortunately it was unhurt, but it could have been very
> bad
> > indeed.
> >
> > A solenoid-type system that actuated the brake hydraulics would be much
> > more effective because it has its own master cylinder that would still
> hold
> > pressure even as the fluid cooled. However, it would not serve as a
> proper
> > emergency brake if there was a hydraulic failure (say, a seal blew out
> in a
> > caliper) whereas a cable-type system that mechanically leverages the
> > components of the caliper requires no hydraulics to work.
> >
> > Mike (who has had no parking brake at all for the past 30 years...park
> > wisely and hope for the best!)
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > In a message dated 1/13/16 8 03 59, guson at home.se writes:
> >
> > That's simply not a good solution. Doesn't work as an emergency
> > brake
> > and parking brake function is dubious. If you park your car with the
> > brakes hot they may release when they cool off.
> >
> >>>> Tomas, you're talking about a simple line lock. He's asking about
> > an (electrical) solenoid-operated system, which was pioneered by the
> > OEMs and is in wide use (and is, significantly, sufficiently effective
> > to satisfy government regulations worldwide). Such systems are now
> > available in the aftermarket.
> > I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems work by
> > pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple mechanical
> > 'arm' that is pulling on a mechanical parking brake? Does anybody know
> > that for sure?
> > You're correct in asserting that a simple line lock is insufficient to
> > hold a car for any length of time; they are designed for very
> > short-term use only. Geoff Peters' Pantera nearly missed (by less than
> > an inch) crashing into an Aston Martin DB4 when he let a friend borrow
> > it and the fool parked it overnight on a slope in neutral with the line
> > lock engaged. As the brakes cooled at night, they released and the car
> > rolled through a lot crowded with collector cars, brushed past the
> > Aston and crashed through a hedge and down into a ditch! Fortunately
> > it was unhurt, but it could have been very bad indeed.
> > A solenoid-type system that actuated the brake hydraulics would be much
> > more effective because it has its own master cylinder that would still
> > hold pressure even as the fluid cooled. However, it would not serve as
> > a proper emergency brake if there was a hydraulic failure (say, a seal
> > blew out in a caliper) whereas a cable-type system that mechanically
> > leverages the components of the caliper requires no hydraulics to work.
> > Mike (who has had no parking brake at all for the past 30 years...park
> > wisely and hope for the best!)
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 14:51:57 -0500
> > From: MikeLDrew at aol.com
> > To: gaino at earthlink.net, steve at snclocks.com, guson at home.se
> > Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> > Message-ID: <72fdc9.23690f23.43c804dd at aol.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 1/13/16 9 15 10, gaino at earthlink.net writes:
> >
> >
> >> ?? Is it possible to mount the stock calipers in the front position to
> >> use
> >> ?? as Ebrake?? He already has the Wilwoods installed and saftey wired on
> >> ?? the rear mounts.
> >
> >>>> People who say 'yes' are forgetting about simple mechanics. The
> > calipers are actuated by cables which are introduced into the rear of the
> > wheelwell. If the calipers are repositioned the cables will no longer
> fit, plus if
> > longer ones were used, they would foul the driveshafts on their way
> > forward. The only possible way to make a system like that work would
> be to
> > reposition the cables so they entered the wheelwells ahead of, instead
> of behind
> > the hub carriers, and there would be a fair bit of engineering
> involved. I
> > suppose it might be possible, but it certainly won't be a trivial
> exercise.
> >
> > Mike
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > In a message dated 1/13/16 9 15 10, gaino at earthlink.net writes:
> >
> > Is it possible to mount the stock calipers in the front position
> > to use
> > as Ebrake? He already has the Wilwoods installed and saftey
> > wired on
> > the rear mounts.
> >
> >>>> People who say 'yes' are forgetting about simple mechanics. The
> > calipers are actuated by cables which are introduced into the rear of
> > the wheelwell. If the calipers are repositioned the cables will no
> > longer fit, plus if longer ones were used, they would foul the
> > driveshafts on their way forward. The only possible way to make a
> > system like that work would be to reposition the cables so they entered
> > the wheelwells ahead of, instead of behind the hub carriers, and there
> > would be a fair bit of engineering involved. I suppose it might be
> > possible, but it certainly won't be a trivial exercise.
> > Mike
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 4
> > Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 14:52:03 -0500
> > From: MikeLDrew at aol.com
> > To: guson at home.se, gaino at earthlink.net
> > Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> > Message-ID: <72fddd.5edc2feb.43c804e3 at aol.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 1/13/16 11 28 28, guson at home.se writes:
> >
> >
> >> Yes Bill, most likely. I have installed calipers on the front side of
> >> the uprights, the holes were threaded and all. I think I heard that not
> >> all uprights are drilled front and back but it may be that only newer
> >> cars that suffer from that.
> >
> >>>> True--the GT5/GT5-S uprights are 'handed' with mounting holes only on
> > one side (which, when you think about it, is really dumb from a
> production
> > standpoint).
> >
> > Mike
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > In a message dated 1/13/16 11 28 28, guson at home.se writes:
> >
> > Yes Bill, most likely. I have installed calipers on the front side
> > of
> > the uprights, the holes were threaded and all. I think I heard that
> > not
> > all uprights are drilled front and back but it may be that only
> > newer
> > cars that suffer from that.
> >
> >>>> True--the GT5/GT5-S uprights are 'handed' with mounting holes only
> > on one side (which, when you think about it, is really dumb from a
> > production standpoint).
> > Mike
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 5
> > Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 15:19:19 -0500
> > From: MikeLDrew at aol.com
> > To: davel at emspace.com, detomaso at poca.com, michael at michaelshortt.com
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Campagnolo Wheels
> > Message-ID: <73161a.56810af3.43c80b47 at aol.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 1/10/16 21 39 38, davel at emspace.com writes:
> >
> >
> >>
> >> My 17" Hall wheels are a lot heavier than the mags.
> >> I think that's fine for street, but aren't you concerned about the
> >> unsprung weight for track use?
> >> dave
> >>
> >>
> >>>> Interesting. This was apparently a reply to an original post by
> > Michael Shortt, but that post never came through to me nor did it wind
> up in my
> > spam folder?
> >
> > I'm noting some irregularities with the forum these days....anyway,
> > thankfully Dave included Michael's original post, so see replies below:
> >
> >
> >>> On 1/08/16 9:17 PM, Michael Shortt wrote:
> >>> ? ?? Greetings,
> >>>
> >>> ? ?? After gathering all my wheels in one place and a brief inventory
> >> today,
> >>> ? ?? I have 21 Campy wheels,
> >>
> >>>> Uh...that's a lot. :>)
> >
> >
> >
> >>> ? ?? 5 Single Slots and a mixture of the 4 Double Slots and Zero Triple
> >>> ? ?? Slots ( No 10") Plus 2 sets of 17" Boyd Coddington Wheels made for
> >> Hall
> >>> ? ?? Pantera.
> >
> >>>> Uh, I don't think Coddington every made wheels for Hall? He did make
> > them for several other vendors, in several different styles, some
> markedly
> > better than others. Can you share some images perhaps to help in
> > identification?
> >
> > Hall did have somebody cast up ten-spoke Si-looking wheels that were
> welded
> > together, and perhaps Coddington was the source for those?
> >
> >>>> ? ?? And the 17" 10 spokes on the car now with 335/35 and 245/40.
> >>
> >>>> What kind of wheels are those? 10 spokes is a pretty vague
> > descriiption--although I admit I'm pretty certain how many spokes they
> have at least. :>
> > )
> >
> >>>
> >>> ? ?? I am keeping the 10 spokes with PZeros for Street use,
> >>> ? ?? And one set of the 17" Hall Wheels with 315/235 Kumhos for Rally
> and
> >>> ? ?? Track use.
> >>
> >>>> Wait--are you talking about Coddington Campagnolo clones, or Hall
> wheels
> > which are three-piece, bolt-together affairs, with a fake center spinner?
> > Those are as different as chalk and cheese (with the latter being the
> only
> > genuinely suspect/dangerous wheels I've ever encountered).
> >
> >
> >>> ? ?? I will be keeping the Single Slots for Concours with skinny
> >> Blackwalls
> >>> ? ?? and a set of Double Slots with Vintage Arrivas for Photos, With a
> >> spare
> >>> ? ?? Front and a Spare Rear in case of a boo boo.
> >>
> >>>> Sounds good!
> >>>
> >>>> ? ?? That leaves 2 full sets of double slot wheels to dispose of. Sell
> >> or
> >>> ? ?? Trade. Photos Available.
> >>
> >>>> Somebody just asked for a set--Guy Dellavecchia? What kind are they?
> > Guy might want to trade his '71 two-slot wheels for some L-model wheels?
> >
> >>> ? ?? I'd love a Triple Slot set. Anybody have some?
> >>
> >>>> I have only ever seen two of them (separately) in my life. These
> were
> > an experimental wheel used on the first pushmobile prototype. I have no
> > idea how many were put into production but I've never seen any other car
> > wearing them, so I would have to imagine the number is very small
> indeed. Even
> > 1006, the earliest known Pantera extant, had single slot wheels.
> >
> > So don't hold your breath waiting for a full set of three-slot wheels to
> > appear. :>)
> >
> >>> I will sort them this week by design, Thanks Mike Drew for the Campy
> >>> ? ?? Wheel education.
> >>
> >>>> It's my pleasure, but at this point I'm far more concerned about your
> > aftermarket wheels. Simply put, I would never wish three-piece Hall
> wheels
> > on my worst enemy, and especially not for track use. We collectively
> know
> > about multiple failures, which always led to rapid deflation and a
> potential
> > accident. Jack has often told of the car that was zorching down Mt. Ch
> > arleston in Las Vegas at triple digit speeds one year when his Hall wheel
> > dismantled himself; I believe it thrust the car into the scenery, but
> can't
> > remember that aspect of the story for sure. Jack?
> >
> > Larry Stock had a car on the grass at Concorso that he was trying to
> sell;
> > a rear wheel simply blew apart while the car was parked (!) and he had to
> > tow it back to Nevada as it couldn't be fixed--it had cracked halfway
> around.
> > The other three wheels had similar cracks when they were taken apart and
> > inspected.
> >
> > And Mad Dog's fire was indirectly caused by the failure of his Hall
> wheel;
> > when the left rear wheel failed, the car fell down onto the freeway in
> Los
> > Angeles. What wasn't seen was that during the collapse, the brake line
> was
> > damaged. MD swapped his stock wheels w/race tires on and ran the Silver
> > State a day or two later, but when he stepped on the brakes at the finish
> > line, the line ruptured, fluid sprayed onto the exhaust and the rest was
> > history.
> >
> > And on and on and on...I'm sure there are many others.
> >
> > Those wheels were a very well-intentioned design but they were woefully
> > under-engineered, and today should be related either to a display case,
> or a
> > recycling bin IMHO....
> >
> > So tell me exactly what kind of wheels you're talking about here, as the
> > Coddington wheels (which I have aesthetic problems with, admittedly) are
> > nothing like these Hall wheels at all.
> >
> >>>> ? ?? Just let a local guy soda blast two of them down to the green
> >> primer,
> >>> ? ?? I'll probably paint them Argent Silver and Clear them just to see
> >> the
> >>> ? ?? final results.
> >>> ? ?? Photo attached.
> >>
> >>>> Since I didn't get your original e-mail, I didn't get the photo
> > either....
> >
> > Cheers!
> >
> > Mike
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > In a message dated 1/10/16 21 39 38, davel at emspace.com writes:
> >
> > My 17" Hall wheels are a lot heavier than the mags.
> > I think that's fine for street, but aren't you concerned about the
> > unsprung weight for track use?
> > dave
> >
> >>>> Interesting. This was apparently a reply to an original post by
> > Michael Shortt, but that post never came through to me nor did it wind
> > up in my spam folder?
> > I'm noting some irregularities with the forum these days....anyway,
> > thankfully Dave included Michael's original post, so see replies below:
> >
> >> On 1/08/16 9:17 PM, Michael Shortt wrote:
> >> Greetings,
> >>
> >> After gathering all my wheels in one place and a brief
> > inventory today,
> >> I have 21 Campy wheels,
> >
> >>>> Uh...that's a lot. :>)
> >
> >> 5 Single Slots and a mixture of the 4 Double Slots and Zero
> > Triple
> >> Slots ( No 10") Plus 2 sets of 17" Boyd Coddington Wheels made
> > for Hall
> >> Pantera.
> >
> >>>> Uh, I don't think Coddington every made wheels for Hall? He did
> > make them for several other vendors, in several different styles, some
> > markedly better than others. Can you share some images perhaps to help
> > in identification?
> > Hall did have somebody cast up ten-spoke Si-looking wheels that were
> > welded together, and perhaps Coddington was the source for those?
> >
> >>> And the 17" 10 spokes on the car now with 335/35 and 245/40.
> >
> >>>> What kind of wheels are those? 10 spokes is a pretty vague
> > descriiption--although I admit I'm pretty certain how many spokes they
> > have at least. :>)
> >
> >>
> >> I am keeping the 10 spokes with PZeros for Street use,
> >> And one set of the 17" Hall Wheels with 315/235 Kumhos for
> > Rally and
> >> Track use.
> >
> >>>> Wait--are you talking about Coddington Campagnolo clones, or Hall
> > wheels which are three-piece, bolt-together affairs, with a fake center
> > spinner? Those are as different as chalk and cheese (with the latter
> > being the only genuinely suspect/dangerous wheels I've ever
> > encountered).
> >
> >> I will be keeping the Single Slots for Concours with skinny
> > Blackwalls
> >> and a set of Double Slots with Vintage Arrivas for Photos,
> > With a spare
> >> Front and a Spare Rear in case of a boo boo.
> >
> >>>> Sounds good!
> >
> >>
> >>> That leaves 2 full sets of double slot wheels to dispose of.
> > Sell or
> >> Trade. Photos Available.
> >
> >>>> Somebody just asked for a set--Guy Dellavecchia? What kind are
> > they? Guy might want to trade his '71 two-slot wheels for some L-model
> > wheels?
> >
> >> I'd love a Triple Slot set. Anybody have some?
> >
> >>>> I have only ever seen two of them (separately) in my life. These
> > were an experimental wheel used on the first pushmobile prototype. I
> > have no idea how many were put into production but I've never seen any
> > other car wearing them, so I would have to imagine the number is very
> > small indeed. Even 1006, the earliest known Pantera extant, had single
> > slot wheels.
> > So don't hold your breath waiting for a full set of three-slot wheels
> > to appear. :>)
> >
> >> I will sort them this week by design, Thanks Mike Drew for the
> > Campy
> >> Wheel education.
> >
> >>>> It's my pleasure, but at this point I'm far more concerned about
> > your aftermarket wheels. Simply put, I would never wish three-piece
> > Hall wheels on my worst enemy, and especially not for track use. We
> > collectively know about multiple failures, which always led to rapid
> > deflation and a potential accident. Jack has often told of the car
> > that was zorching down Mt. Charleston in Las Vegas at triple digit
> > speeds one year when his Hall wheel dismantled himself; I believe it
> > thrust the car into the scenery, but can't remember that aspect of the
> > story for sure. Jack?
> > Larry Stock had a car on the grass at Concorso that he was trying to
> > sell; a rear wheel simply blew apart while the car was parked (!) and
> > he had to tow it back to Nevada as it couldn't be fixed--it had cracked
> > halfway around. The other three wheels had similar cracks when they
> > were taken apart and inspected.
> > And Mad Dog's fire was indirectly caused by the failure of his Hall
> > wheel; when the left rear wheel failed, the car fell down onto the
> > freeway in Los Angeles. What wasn't seen was that during the collapse,
> > the brake line was damaged. MD swapped his stock wheels w/race tires
> > on and ran the Silver State a day or two later, but when he stepped on
> > the brakes at the finish line, the line ruptured, fluid sprayed onto
> > the exhaust and the rest was history.
> > And on and on and on...I'm sure there are many others.
> > Those wheels were a very well-intentioned design but they were woefully
> > under-engineered, and today should be related either to a display case,
> > or a recycling bin IMHO....
> > So tell me exactly what kind of wheels you're talking about here, as
> > the Coddington wheels (which I have aesthetic problems with,
> > admittedly) are nothing like these Hall wheels at all.
> >
> >>> Just let a local guy soda blast two of them down to the green
> > primer,
> >> I'll probably paint them Argent Silver and Clear them just to
> > see the
> >> final results.
> >> Photo attached.
> >
> >>>> Since I didn't get your original e-mail, I didn't get the photo
> > either....
> > Cheers!
> > Mike
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 6
> > Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 12:23:56 -0800
> > From: "Stephen" <steve at snclocks.com>
> > To: <MikeLDrew at aol.com>, <gaino at earthlink.net>, <guson at home.se>
> > Cc: <detomaso at poca.com>
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> > Message-ID: <00d501d14e40$54625920$fd270b60$@snclocks.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >
> > When I was going through my brakes I wanted to clean out the e-brake
> > housings and the cables. So, I cut off the cable ends, took everything
> > apart, took all the old plastic sheath off the housings, replaced with
> heavy
> > shrink-to-fit, cut the housings to be a better fit with less excess
> length,
> > lubed with graphite-impregnated grease, then put new ends on the cables
> to
> > match the length that they needed to be. Went together very nicely.
> >
> >
> >
> > It would have been pretty much as simple to change length to match a
> front
> > mounting for the originals, but would have likely required cutting a
> pair of
> > holes in the sheet metal - I hate extra holes.
> >
> >
> >
> > For what all that is worth.
> >
> >
> >
> > Stephen Nelson
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: MikeLDrew at aol.com [mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2016 11:52 AM
> > To: gaino at earthlink.net; steve at snclocks.com; guson at home.se
> > Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 1/13/16 9 15 10, gaino at earthlink.net
> > <mailto:gaino at earthlink.net> writes:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Is it possible to mount the stock calipers in the front position to use
> > as Ebrake? He already has the Wilwoods installed and saftey wired on
> > the rear mounts.
> >
> >
> >
> >>>> People who say 'yes' are forgetting about simple mechanics. The
> calipers
> > are actuated by cables which are introduced into the rear of the
> wheelwell.
> > If the calipers are repositioned the cables will no longer fit, plus if
> > longer ones were used, they would foul the driveshafts on their way
> forward.
> > The only possible way to make a system like that work would be to
> reposition
> > the cables so they entered the wheelwells ahead of, instead of behind the
> > hub carriers, and there would be a fair bit of engineering involved. I
> > suppose it might be possible, but it certainly won't be a trivial
> exercise.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > When I was going through my brakes I wanted to clean out the e-brake
> > housings and the cables. So, I cut off the cable ends, took everything
> > apart, took all the old plastic sheath off the housings, replaced with
> > heavy shrink-to-fit, cut the housings to be a better fit with less
> > excess length, lubed with graphite-impregnated grease, then put new
> > ends on the cables to match the length that they needed to be. Went
> > together very nicely.
> >
> >
> > It would have been pretty much as simple to change length to match a
> > front mounting for the originals, but would have likely required
> > cutting a pair of holes in the sheet metal - I hate extra holes...
> >
> >
> > For what all that is worth.
> >
> >
> > Stephen Nelson
> >
> >
> >
> > From: MikeLDrew at aol.com [mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2016 11:52 AM
> > To: gaino at earthlink.net; steve at snclocks.com; guson at home.se
> > Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 1/13/16 9 15 10, [1]gaino at earthlink.net writes:
> >
> > Is it possible to mount the stock calipers in the front position
> > to use
> > as Ebrake? He already has the Wilwoods installed and saftey
> > wired on
> > the rear mounts.
> >
> >>>> People who say 'yes' are forgetting about simple mechanics. The
> > calipers are actuated by cables which are introduced into the rear of
> > the wheelwell. If the calipers are repositioned the cables will no
> > longer fit, plus if longer ones were used, they would foul the
> > driveshafts on their way forward. The only possible way to make a
> > system like that work would be to reposition the cables so they entered
> > the wheelwells ahead of, instead of behind the hub carriers, and there
> > would be a fair bit of engineering involved. I suppose it might be
> > possible, but it certainly won't be a trivial exercise.
> > Mike
> >
> > References
> >
> > 1. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 7
> > Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 21:07:23 +0000
> > From: L GRAY <tipo874a at msn.com>
> > To: "MikeLDrew at aol.com" <MikeLDrew at aol.com>
> > Cc: "guson at home.se" <guson at home.se>, "gaino at earthlink.net"
> > <gaino at earthlink.net>, "detomaso at poca.com" <detomaso at poca.com>
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> > Message-ID:
> > <
> BLUPR19MB0163500785FD9792060E49A29DCB0 at BLUPR19MB0163.namprd19.prod.outlook.com
> >
> >
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >
> >
> > Hate to disagree here Mike. The only uprights that were produced for a
> Pantera that were right or left handed were "some" of Hall Pantera's
> aluminum uprights, and they originally had mounts on front and rear. For
> some reason later on in production they were built without both sets of
> ears.......... never understood why .......as you said dumb idea !!
> > The Group 4 uprights were manufactured with both sets of ears. Some
> of you may not know that the GT 5 and the GT 5-S rear uprights were taken
> from the competition Group 4 spares inventory.
> >
> > Leslie A. Gray
> >
> >> On Jan 13, 2016, at 12:53 PM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> In a message dated 1/13/16 11 28 28, guson at home.se writes:
> >>
> >> Yes Bill, most likely. I have installed calipers on the front side
> >> of
> >> the uprights, the holes were threaded and all. I think I heard that
> >> not
> >> all uprights are drilled front and back but it may be that only
> >> newer
> >> cars that suffer from that.
> >>
> >>>>> True--the GT5/GT5-S uprights are 'handed' with mounting holes only
> >> on one side (which, when you think about it, is really dumb from a
> >> production standpoint).
> >> Mike
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>
> >> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> >> DeTomaso mailing list
> >> DeTomaso at poca.com
> >> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> >>
> >> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> use the links above.
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 8
> > Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 16:20:31 -0500
> > From: Michael Shortt <michaelsavga at gmail.com>
> > To: 576103 <MikeLDrew at aol.com>
> > Cc: Dave Londry <davel at emspace.com>, "detomaso at poca.com"
> > <detomaso at poca.com>
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Campagnolo Wheels
> > Message-ID:
> > <CAEWtxWrnqwjnrhKaKWzkxyc4SnmmwfoeAk1gHft7eVUsB=Di5Q at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > none of my wheels are assembled ( fasteners) 3 piece wheels, all are
> welded
> > or billet.
> >
> > I have driven on the wheels on street, on track and on the Tail of the
> > Dragon and have had zero issues in 12 years with 2 different designs,
> > not sure who mad ethe current wheels ( 10 spoke ), but they show no signs
> > of stress, damage either.
> >
> > It may be my luck, it could be others bad luck, it could be misuse and
> > driving style.
> >
> > My Dad owned 3 Audi 5000's, he never had any issues either, maybe because
> > he never pressed the gas instead of the brake.
> >
> >
> > Michael Shortt
> >
> >> On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 3:19 PM, <MikeLDrew at aol.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> In a message dated 1/10/16 21 39 38, davel at emspace.com writes:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> My 17" Hall wheels are a lot heavier than the mags.
> >> I think that's fine for street, but aren't you concerned about the
> >> unsprung weight for track use?
> >> dave
> >>
> >>
> >>>>> Interesting. This was apparently a reply to an original post by
> >> Michael Shortt, but that post never came through to me nor did it wind
> up
> >> in my spam folder?
> >>
> >> I'm noting some irregularities with the forum these days....anyway,
> >> thankfully Dave included Michael's original post, so see replies below:
> >>
> >>
> >>> On 1/08/16 9:17 PM, Michael Shortt wrote:
> >>> Greetings,
> >>>
> >>> After gathering all my wheels in one place and a brief inventory
> >> today,
> >>> I have 21 Campy wheels,
> >>
> >>>>> Uh...that's a lot. :>)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> 5 Single Slots and a mixture of the 4 Double Slots and Zero Triple
> >>> Slots ( No 10") Plus 2 sets of 17" Boyd Coddington Wheels made for
> >> Hall
> >>> Pantera.
> >>
> >>
> >>>>> Uh, I don't think Coddington every made wheels for Hall? He did make
> >> them for several other vendors, in several different styles, some
> markedly
> >> better than others. Can you share some images perhaps to help in
> >> identification?
> >>
> >> Hall did have somebody cast up ten-spoke Si-looking wheels that were
> >> welded together, and perhaps Coddington was the source for those?
> >>
> >>>> And the 17" 10 spokes on the car now with 335/35 and 245/40.
> >>
> >>>>> What kind of wheels are those? 10 spokes is a pretty vague
> >> descriiption--although I admit I'm pretty certain how many spokes they
> have
> >> at least. :>)
> >>
> >>>
> >>> I am keeping the 10 spokes with PZeros for Street use,
> >>> And one set of the 17" Hall Wheels with 315/235 Kumhos for Rally and
> >>> Track use.
> >>
> >>>>> Wait--are you talking about Coddington Campagnolo clones, or Hall
> >> wheels which are three-piece, bolt-together affairs, with a fake center
> >> spinner? Those are as different as chalk and cheese (with the latter
> being
> >> the only genuinely suspect/dangerous wheels I've ever encountered).
> >>
> >>
> >>> I will be keeping the Single Slots for Concours with skinny
> >> Blackwalls
> >>> and a set of Double Slots with Vintage Arrivas for Photos, With a
> >> spare
> >>> Front and a Spare Rear in case of a boo boo.
> >>
> >>>>> Sounds good!
> >>
> >>>
> >>>> That leaves 2 full sets of double slot wheels to dispose of. Sell
> or
> >>> Trade. Photos Available.
> >>
> >>>>> Somebody just asked for a set--Guy Dellavecchia? What kind are they?
> >> Guy might want to trade his '71 two-slot wheels for some L-model wheels?
> >>
> >>> I'd love a Triple Slot set. Anybody have some?
> >>
> >>>>> I have only ever seen two of them (separately) in my life. These
> were
> >> an experimental wheel used on the first pushmobile prototype. I have no
> >> idea how many were put into production but I've never seen any other car
> >> wearing them, so I would have to imagine the number is very small
> indeed.
> >> Even 1006, the earliest known Pantera extant, had single slot wheels.
> >>
> >> So don't hold your breath waiting for a full set of three-slot wheels to
> >> appear. :>)
> >>
> >>> I will sort them this week by design, Thanks Mike Drew for the Campy
> >>> Wheel education.
> >>
> >>>>> It's my pleasure, but at this point I'm far more concerned about your
> >> aftermarket wheels. Simply put, I would never wish three-piece Hall
> wheels
> >> on my worst enemy, and especially not for track use. We collectively
> know
> >> about multiple failures, which always led to rapid deflation and a
> >> potential accident. Jack has often told of the car that was zorching
> down
> >> Mt. Charleston in Las Vegas at triple digit speeds one year when his
> Hall
> >> wheel dismantled himself; I believe it thrust the car into the scenery,
> but
> >> can't remember that aspect of the story for sure. Jack?
> >>
> >> Larry Stock had a car on the grass at Concorso that he was trying to
> sell;
> >> a rear wheel simply blew apart while the car was parked (!) and he had
> to
> >> tow it back to Nevada as it couldn't be fixed--it had cracked halfway
> >> around. The other three wheels had similar cracks when they were taken
> >> apart and inspected.
> >>
> >> And Mad Dog's fire was indirectly caused by the failure of his Hall
> wheel;
> >> when the left rear wheel failed, the car fell down onto the freeway in
> Los
> >> Angeles. What wasn't seen was that during the collapse, the brake line
> was
> >> damaged. MD swapped his stock wheels w/race tires on and ran the Silver
> >> State a day or two later, but when he stepped on the brakes at the
> finish
> >> line, the line ruptured, fluid sprayed onto the exhaust and the rest was
> >> history.
> >>
> >> And on and on and on...I'm sure there are many others.
> >>
> >> Those wheels were a very well-intentioned design but they were woefully
> >> under-engineered, and today should be related either to a display case,
> or
> >> a recycling bin IMHO....
> >>
> >> So tell me exactly what kind of wheels you're talking about here, as the
> >> Coddington wheels (which I have aesthetic problems with, admittedly) are
> >> nothing like these Hall wheels at all.
> >>
> >>>> Just let a local guy soda blast two of them down to the green
> >> primer,
> >>> I'll probably paint them Argent Silver and Clear them just to see
> the
> >>> final results.
> >>> Photo attached.
> >>
> >>>>> Since I didn't get your original e-mail, I didn't get the photo
> >> either....
> >>
> >> Cheers!
> >>
> >> Mike
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Michael L. Shortt
> > Savannah, Georgia
> > www.michaelshortt.com
> > michael at michaelshortt.com
> > 912-232-9390
> >
> >
> > This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy
> > Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally
> > privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby
> notified
> > that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this
> > communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that
> you
> > have received this message in error, then delete it. Thank you
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > none of my wheels are assembled ( fasteners) 3 piece wheels, all are
> > welded or billet.
> > I have driven on the wheels on street, on track and on the Tail of the
> > Dragon and have had zero issues in 12 years with 2 different designs,
> > not sure who mad ethe current wheels ( 10 spoke ), but they show no
> > signs of stress, damage either.
> > It may be my luck, it could be others bad luck, it could be misuse and
> > driving style.
> > My Dad owned 3 Audi 5000's, he never had any issues either, maybe
> > because he never pressed the gas instead of the brake.
> > Michael Shortt
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 3:19 PM, <[1]MikeLDrew at aol.com> wrote:
> >
> > In a message dated 1/10/16 21 39 38, [2]davel at emspace.com writes:
> > My 17" Hall wheels are a lot heavier than the mags.
> > I think that's fine for street, but aren't you concerned about the
> > unsprung weight for track use?
> > dave
> >>>> Interesting.A This was apparently a reply to an original post by
> > Michael Shortt, but that post never came through to me nor did it
> > wind up in my spam folder?
> > I'm noting some irregularities with the forum these days....anyway,
> > thankfully Dave included Michael's original post, so see replies
> > below:
> >> On 1/08/16 9:17 PM, Michael Shortt wrote:
> >> A A A Greetings,
> >>
> >> A A A After gathering all my wheels in one place and a brief
> > inventory today,
> >> A A A I have 21 Campy wheels,
> >>>> Uh...that's a lot. :>)
> >
> >> A A A 5 Single Slots and a mixture of the 4 Double Slots and Zero
> > Triple
> >> A A A Slots ( No 10") Plus 2 sets of 17" Boyd Coddington Wheels
> > made for Hall
> >> A A A Pantera.
> >>>> Uh, I don't think Coddington every made wheels for Hall?A He did
> > make them for several other vendors, in several different styles,
> > some markedly better than others.A Can you share some images
> > perhaps to help in identification?
> > Hall did have somebody cast up ten-spoke Si-looking wheels that were
> > welded together, and perhaps Coddington was the source for those?
> >
> >>> A A A And the 17" 10 spokes on the car now with 335/35 and
> > 245/40.
> >>>> What kind of wheels are those?A 10 spokes is a pretty vague
> > descriiption--although I admit I'm pretty certain how many spokes
> > they have at least. :>)
> >
> >>
> >> A A A I am keeping the 10 spokes with PZeros for Street use,
> >> A A A And one set of the 17" Hall Wheels with 315/235 Kumhos for
> > Rally and
> >> A A A Track use.
> >>>> Wait--are you talking about Coddington Campagnolo clones, or Hall
> > wheels which are three-piece, bolt-together affairs, with a fake
> > center spinner?A Those are as different as chalk and cheese (with
> > the latter being the only genuinely suspect/dangerous wheels I've
> > ever encountered).
> >
> >> A A A I will be keeping the Single Slots for Concours with skinny
> > Blackwalls
> >> A A A and a set of Double Slots with Vintage Arrivas for Photos,
> > With a spare
> >> A A A Front and a Spare Rear in case of a boo boo.
> >>>> Sounds good!A
> >
> >>
> >>> A A A That leaves 2 full sets of double slot wheels to dispose
> > of. Sell or
> >> A A A Trade. Photos Available.
> >>>> Somebody just asked for a set--Guy Dellavecchia?A What kind are
> > they?A Guy might want to trade his '71 two-slot wheels for some
> > L-model wheels?
> >
> >> A A A I'd love a Triple Slot set. Anybody have some?
> >>>> I have only ever seen two of them (separately) in my life.A
> > These were an experimental wheel used on the first pushmobile
> > prototype.A I have no idea how many were put into production but
> > I've never seen any other car wearing them, so I would have to
> > imagine the number is very small indeed.A Even 1006, the earliest
> > known Pantera extant, had single slot wheels.
> > So don't hold your breath waiting for a full set of three-slot
> > wheels to appear. :>)
> >
> >> I will sort them this week by design, Thanks Mike Drew for the
> > Campy
> >> A A A Wheel education.
> >>>> It's my pleasure, but at this point I'm far more concerned about
> > your aftermarket wheels.A Simply put, I would never wish
> > three-piece Hall wheels on my worst enemy, and especially not for
> > track use.A We collectively know about multiple failures, which
> > always led to rapid deflation and a potential accident.A Jack has
> > often told of the car that was zorching down Mt. Charleston in Las
> > Vegas at triple digit speeds one year when his Hall wheel dismantled
> > himself; I believe it thrust the car into the scenery, but can't
> > remember that aspect of the story for sure.A Jack?
> > Larry Stock had a car on the grass at Concorso that he was trying to
> > sell; a rear wheel simply blew apart while the car was parked (!)
> > and he had to tow it back to Nevada as it couldn't be fixed--it had
> > cracked halfway around.A The other three wheels had similar cracks
> > when they were taken apart and inspected.
> > And Mad Dog's fire was indirectly caused by the failure of his Hall
> > wheel; when the left rear wheel failed, the car fell down onto the
> > freeway in Los Angeles.A What wasn't seen was that during the
> > collapse, the brake line was damaged.A MD swapped his stock wheels
> > w/race tires on and ran the Silver State a day or two later, but
> > when he stepped on the brakes at the finish line, the line ruptured,
> > fluid sprayed onto the exhaust and the rest was history.
> > And on and on and on...I'm sure there are many others.
> > Those wheels were a very well-intentioned design but they were
> > woefully under-engineered, and today should be related either to a
> > display case, or a recycling bin IMHO....
> > So tell me exactly what kind of wheels you're talking about here, as
> > the Coddington wheels (which I have aesthetic problems with,
> > admittedly) are nothing like these Hall wheels at all.
> >>> A A A Just let a local guy soda blast two of them down to the
> > green primer,
> >> A A A I'll probably paint them Argent Silver and Clear them just
> > to see the
> >> A A A final results.
> >> A A A Photo attached.
> >>
> >>>> Since I didn't get your original e-mail, I didn't get the photo
> > either....
> > Cheers!
> > Mike
> >
> > --
> > Michael L. Shortt
> > Savannah, Georgia
> > [3]www.michaelshortt.com
> > [4]michael at michaelshortt.com
> > 912-232-9390
> > A
> > This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy
> > Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally
> > privileged.A If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby
> > notified
> > that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this
> > communication is strictly prohibited.A Please reply to the sender that
> > you
> > have received this message in error, then delete it.A Thank you
> >
> > References
> >
> > 1. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
> > 2. mailto:davel at emspace.com
> > 3. http://www.michaelshortt.com/
> > 4. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 9
> > Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 13:23:36 -0800
> > From: "Tomas Gunnarsson" <guson at home.se>
> > To: <MikeLDrew at aol.com>
> > Cc: <gaino at earthlink.net>, <detomaso at poca.com>
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> > Message-ID: <F6F0EDD7F26440B0970C3CD2C70F6033 at mail2world.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> > Mike,
> >
> > Bill originally wrote: Something that that blocks fluid in the brake
> > lines to hold calipers pressed against the rotors.
> >
> >
> > Aka line loc.
> >
> >
> > OEM electric parking brakes work by having an electric motor actuate the
> > brake via a mechanical device, like a wire.
> >
> >
> > Tomas
> >
> >
> >
> > <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
> >
> > From: Mike Drew via DeTomaso [detomaso at poca.com]
> > Sent: 13/1/2016 8:51:53 PM
> > To: guson at home.se;gaino at earthlink.net
> > Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 1/13/16 8 03 59, guson at home.se writes:
> >
> >
> >> That's simply not a good solution. Doesn't work as an emergency brake
> >> and parking brake function is dubious. If you park your car with the
> >> brakes hot they may release when they cool off.
> >
> >>>> Tomas, you're talking about a simple line lock. He's asking about an
> > (electrical) solenoid-operated system, which was pioneered by the OEMs
> > and is
> > in wide use (and is, significantly, sufficiently effective to satisfy
> > government regulations worldwide). Such systems are now available in the
> > aftermarket.
> >
> > I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems work by
> > pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple mechanical
> > 'arm' that
> > is pulling on a mechanical parking brake? Does anybody know that for
> > sure?
> >
> > You're correct in asserting that a simple line lock is insufficient to
> > hold
> > a car for any length of time; they are designed for very short-term use
> > only. Geoff Peters' Pantera nearly missed (by less than an inch)
> > crashing
> > into an Aston Martin DB4 when he let a friend borrow it and the fool
> > parked it
> > overnight on a slope in neutral with the line lock engaged. As the
> > brakes
> > cooled at night, they released and the car rolled through a lot crowded
> > with
> > collector cars, brushed past the Aston and crashed through a hedge and
> > down
> > into a ditch! Fortunately it was unhurt, but it could have been very bad
> > indeed.
> >
> > A solenoid-type system that actuated the brake hydraulics would be much
> > more effective because it has its own master cylinder that would still
> > hold
> > pressure even as the fluid cooled. However, it would not serve as a
> > proper
> > emergency brake if there was a hydraulic failure (say, a seal blew out
> > in a
> > caliper) whereas a cable-type system that mechanically leverages the
> > components of the caliper requires no hydraulics to work.
> >
> > Mike (who has had no parking brake at all for the past 30 years...park
> > wisely and hope for the best!)
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > Mike,
> >
> > Bill originally wrote: Something that that blocks fluid in the brake
> > lines to hold calipers pressed against the rotors.
> >
> > Aka line loc.
> >
> > OEM electric parking brakes work by having an electric motor actuate
> > the brake via a mechanical device, like a wire.
> >
> > Tomas
> > <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
> > From: Mike Drew via DeTomaso [detomaso at poca.com]
> > Sent: 13/1/2016 8:51:53 PM
> > To: guson at home.se;gaino at earthlink.net
> > Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> > In a message dated 1/13/16 8 03 59, guson at home.se writes:
> >> That's simply not a good solution. Doesn't work as an emergency brake
> >> and parking brake function is dubious. If you park your car with the
> >> brakes hot they may release when they cool off.
> >>
> >>>> Tomas, you're talking about a simple line lock. He's asking about an
> > (electrical) solenoid-operated system, which was pioneered by the OEMs
> > and is
> > in wide use (and is, significantly, sufficiently effective to satisfy
> > government regulations worldwide). Such systems are now available in
> > the
> > aftermarket.
> > I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems work by
> > pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple mechanical
> > 'arm' that
> > is pulling on a mechanical parking brake? Does anybody know that for
> > sure?
> > You're correct in asserting that a simple line lock is insufficient to
> > hold
> > a car for any length of time; they are designed for very short-term use
> > only. Geoff Peters' Pantera nearly missed (by less than an inch)
> > crashing
> > into an Aston Martin DB4 when he let a friend borrow it and the fool
> > parked it
> > overnight on a slope in neutral with the line lock engaged. As the
> > brakes
> > cooled at night, they released and the car rolled through a lot crowded
> > with
> > collector cars, brushed past the Aston and crashed through a hedge and
> > down
> > into a ditch! Fortunately it was unhurt, but it could have been very
> > bad
> > indeed.
> > A solenoid-type system that actuated the brake hydraulics would be much
> > more effective because it has its own master cylinder that would still
> > hold
> > pressure even as the fluid cooled. However, it would not serve as a
> > proper
> > emergency brake if there was a hydraulic failure (say, a seal blew out
> > in a
> > caliper) whereas a cable-type system that mechanically leverages the
> > components of the caliper requires no hydraulics to work.
> > Mike (who has had no parking brake at all for the past 30 years...park
> > wisely and hope for the best!)
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 10
> > Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 13:30:22 -0800
> > From: Larry Stock <larrys at panteraparts.com>
> > To: <MikeLDrew at aol.com>, <davel at emspace.com>, <detomaso at poca.com>,
> > <michael at michaelshortt.com>
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Campagnolo Wheels
> > Message-ID: <D2BC0041.15C59F%larrys at panteraparts.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
> >
> > I am taking in a set of 8?s and 10?s X15? Campy?s with new tires next
> week
> > on a sale and trade I am doing. Since you guys are talking about these, I
> > am going to have a set available in the next week or so.
> > E-mail me for more info and details.
> > Larrys at PanteraParts.com (1-800-DeTomaso) 800-338-6627
> >
> >
> > On 1/13/16, 12:19 PM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Mike Drew via DeTomaso"
> > <detomaso-bounces at poca.com on behalf of detomaso at poca.com> wrote:
> >
> >> In a message dated 1/10/16 21 39 38, davel at emspace.com writes:
> >>
> >> My 17" Hall wheels are a lot heavier than the mags.
> >> I think that's fine for street, but aren't you concerned about the
> >> unsprung weight for track use?
> >> dave
> >>
> >>>>> Interesting. This was apparently a reply to an original post by
> >> Michael Shortt, but that post never came through to me nor did it wind
> >> up in my spam folder?
> >> I'm noting some irregularities with the forum these days....anyway,
> >> thankfully Dave included Michael's original post, so see replies below:
> >>
> >>> On 1/08/16 9:17 PM, Michael Shortt wrote:
> >>> Greetings,
> >>>
> >>> After gathering all my wheels in one place and a brief
> >> inventory today,
> >>> I have 21 Campy wheels,
> >>
> >>>>> Uh...that's a lot. :>)
> >>
> >>> 5 Single Slots and a mixture of the 4 Double Slots and Zero
> >> Triple
> >>> Slots ( No 10") Plus 2 sets of 17" Boyd Coddington Wheels made
> >> for Hall
> >>> Pantera.
> >>
> >>>>> Uh, I don't think Coddington every made wheels for Hall? He did
> >> make them for several other vendors, in several different styles, some
> >> markedly better than others. Can you share some images perhaps to help
> >> in identification?
> >> Hall did have somebody cast up ten-spoke Si-looking wheels that were
> >> welded together, and perhaps Coddington was the source for those?
> >>
> >>>> And the 17" 10 spokes on the car now with 335/35 and 245/40.
> >>
> >>>>> What kind of wheels are those? 10 spokes is a pretty vague
> >> descriiption--although I admit I'm pretty certain how many spokes they
> >> have at least. :>)
> >>
> >>>
> >>> I am keeping the 10 spokes with PZeros for Street use,
> >>> And one set of the 17" Hall Wheels with 315/235 Kumhos for
> >> Rally and
> >>> Track use.
> >>
> >>>>> Wait--are you talking about Coddington Campagnolo clones, or Hall
> >> wheels which are three-piece, bolt-together affairs, with a fake center
> >> spinner? Those are as different as chalk and cheese (with the latter
> >> being the only genuinely suspect/dangerous wheels I've ever
> >> encountered).
> >>
> >>> I will be keeping the Single Slots for Concours with skinny
> >> Blackwalls
> >>> and a set of Double Slots with Vintage Arrivas for Photos,
> >> With a spare
> >>> Front and a Spare Rear in case of a boo boo.
> >>
> >>>>> Sounds good!
> >>
> >>>
> >>>> That leaves 2 full sets of double slot wheels to dispose of.
> >> Sell or
> >>> Trade. Photos Available.
> >>
> >>>>> Somebody just asked for a set--Guy Dellavecchia? What kind are
> >> they? Guy might want to trade his '71 two-slot wheels for some L-model
> >> wheels?
> >>
> >>> I'd love a Triple Slot set. Anybody have some?
> >>
> >>>>> I have only ever seen two of them (separately) in my life. These
> >> were an experimental wheel used on the first pushmobile prototype. I
> >> have no idea how many were put into production but I've never seen any
> >> other car wearing them, so I would have to imagine the number is very
> >> small indeed. Even 1006, the earliest known Pantera extant, had single
> >> slot wheels.
> >> So don't hold your breath waiting for a full set of three-slot wheels
> >> to appear. :>)
> >>
> >>> I will sort them this week by design, Thanks Mike Drew for the
> >> Campy
> >>> Wheel education.
> >>
> >>>>> It's my pleasure, but at this point I'm far more concerned about
> >> your aftermarket wheels. Simply put, I would never wish three-piece
> >> Hall wheels on my worst enemy, and especially not for track use. We
> >> collectively know about multiple failures, which always led to rapid
> >> deflation and a potential accident. Jack has often told of the car
> >> that was zorching down Mt. Charleston in Las Vegas at triple digit
> >> speeds one year when his Hall wheel dismantled himself; I believe it
> >> thrust the car into the scenery, but can't remember that aspect of the
> >> story for sure. Jack?
> >> Larry Stock had a car on the grass at Concorso that he was trying to
> >> sell; a rear wheel simply blew apart while the car was parked (!) and
> >> he had to tow it back to Nevada as it couldn't be fixed--it had cracked
> >> halfway around. The other three wheels had similar cracks when they
> >> were taken apart and inspected.
> >> And Mad Dog's fire was indirectly caused by the failure of his Hall
> >> wheel; when the left rear wheel failed, the car fell down onto the
> >> freeway in Los Angeles. What wasn't seen was that during the collapse,
> >> the brake line was damaged. MD swapped his stock wheels w/race tires
> >> on and ran the Silver State a day or two later, but when he stepped on
> >> the brakes at the finish line, the line ruptured, fluid sprayed onto
> >> the exhaust and the rest was history.
> >> And on and on and on...I'm sure there are many others.
> >> Those wheels were a very well-intentioned design but they were woefully
> >> under-engineered, and today should be related either to a display case,
> >> or a recycling bin IMHO....
> >> So tell me exactly what kind of wheels you're talking about here, as
> >> the Coddington wheels (which I have aesthetic problems with,
> >> admittedly) are nothing like these Hall wheels at all.
> >>
> >>>> Just let a local guy soda blast two of them down to the green
> >> primer,
> >>> I'll probably paint them Argent Silver and Clear them just to
> >> see the
> >>> final results.
> >>> Photo attached.
> >>
> >>>>> Since I didn't get your original e-mail, I didn't get the photo
> >> either....
> >> Cheers!
> >> Mike
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>
> >> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> >> DeTomaso mailing list
> >> DeTomaso at poca.com
> >> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> >>
> >> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> use
> >> the links above.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 11
> > Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 22:53:34 +0100
> > From: Charles McCall <charlesmccall at gmail.com>
> > To: <MikeLDrew at aol.com>, <guson at home.se>, <gaino at earthlink.net>,
> > <detomaso at poca.com>
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> > Message-ID: <00fd01d14e4c$dac3a170$904ae450$@gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >
> > I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems work by
> > pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple mechanical
> 'arm'
> > that
> > is pulling on a mechanical parking brake? Does anybody know that for
> sure?
> > ****Audis use a mechanical parking brake actuated by a solenoid - the
> second
> > case. They do not pressurize the fluid in the line. They have some
> > electronics to ease the brake on if you are moving, but actuating it at
> any
> > speed locks up your brakes. They are either on or off.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 12
> > Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 14:02:11 -0800
> > From: "Tomas Gunnarsson" <guson at home.se>
> > To: <charlesmccall at gmail.com>
> > Cc: <detomaso at poca.com>
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> > Message-ID: <72F2415F8F0A41A0BC5857747006BB5D at mail2world.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> > It is more likely a linear actuator driven by a motor. A solenoid would
> > not be good as it would need to draw current for the whole time the
> > brakes are on. You can probably hear the motor whine when you flip the
> > switch (or whatever) and then it goes silent when the brakes are on/off.
> > Where there's legislation requiring a parking brake it's usually also a
> > requirement that it's mechanically actuated, hydraulics are not allowed.
> >
> > Tomas
> >
> >
> >
> > <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
> >
> > From: Charles McCall [charlesmccall at gmail.com]
> > Sent: 13/1/2016 10:53:34 PM
> > To:
> > MikeLDrew at aol.com;guson at home.se;gaino at earthlink.net;detomaso at poca.com
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> >
> > I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems work by
> > pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple mechanical
> > 'arm'
> > that
> > is pulling on a mechanical parking brake? Does anybody know that for
> > sure?
> > ****Audis use a mechanical parking brake actuated by a solenoid - the
> > second
> > case. They do not pressurize the fluid in the line. They have some
> > electronics to ease the brake on if you are moving, but actuating it at
> > any
> > speed locks up your brakes. They are either on or off.
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > DeTomaso at poca.com
> > http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> >
> > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> > use the links above.
> > .
> >
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > It is more likely a linear actuator driven by a motor. A solenoid would
> > not be good as it would need to draw current for the whole time the
> > brakes are on. You can probably hear the motor whine when you flip the
> > switch (or whatever) and then it goes silent when the brakes are
> > on/off. Where there's legislation requiring a parking brake it's
> > usually also a requirement that it's mechanically actuated, hydraulics
> > are not allowed.
> >
> > Tomas
> > <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
> > From: Charles McCall [charlesmccall at gmail.com]
> > Sent: 13/1/2016 10:53:34 PM
> > To:
> > MikeLDrew at aol.com;guson at home.se;gaino at earthlink.net;detomaso at poca.com
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> > I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems work by
> > pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple mechanical
> > 'arm'
> > that
> > is pulling on a mechanical parking brake? Does anybody know that for
> > sure?
> > ****Audis use a mechanical parking brake actuated by a solenoid - the
> > second
> > case. They do not pressurize the fluid in the line. They have some
> > electronics to ease the brake on if you are moving, but actuating it at
> > any
> > speed locks up your brakes. They are either on or off.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > DeTomaso at poca.com
> > http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> > use the links above.
> > .
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 13
> > Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 23:04:27 +0100
> > From: Charles McCall <charlesmccall at gmail.com>
> > To: "'Tomas Gunnarsson'" <guson at home.se>
> > Cc: <detomaso at poca.com>
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> > Message-ID: <010701d14e4e$5fc90440$1f5b0cc0$@gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> > Sorry, you are correct that it is a linear actuator. I answered quickly.
> In
> > any case, it is a mechanical actuator and not pressurizing the hydraulic
> > line.
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Tomas Gunnarsson [mailto:guson at home.se]
> > Sent: mi?rcoles, 13 de enero de 2016 23:02
> > To: charlesmccall at gmail.com
> > Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> >
> >
> >
> > It is more likely a linear actuator driven by a motor. A solenoid would
> not
> > be good as it would need to draw current for the whole time the brakes
> are
> > on. You can probably hear the motor whine when you flip the switch (or
> > whatever) and then it goes silent when the brakes are on/off. Where
> there's
> > legislation requiring a parking brake it's usually also a requirement
> that
> > it's mechanically actuated, hydraulics are not allowed.
> >
> >
> >
> > Tomas
> >
> >
> >
> > <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Charles McCall [charlesmccall at gmail.com]
> > Sent: 13/1/2016 10:53:34 PM
> > To: MikeLDrew at aol.com;guson at home.se;gaino at earthlink.net;
> detomaso at poca.com
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> >
> > I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems work by
> > pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple mechanical
> 'arm'
> >
> > that
> > is pulling on a mechanical parking brake? Does anybody know that for
> sure?
> > ****Audis use a mechanical parking brake actuated by a solenoid - the
> second
> >
> > case. They do not pressurize the fluid in the line. They have some
> > electronics to ease the brake on if you are moving, but actuating it at
> any
> > speed locks up your brakes. They are either on or off.
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > DeTomaso at poca.com
> > http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> >
> > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use
> > the links above.
> > .
> >
> >
> >
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > Sorry, you are correct that it is a linear actuator. I answered
> > quickly. In any case, it is a mechanical actuator and not pressurizing
> > the hydraulic line.
> >
> >
> > From: Tomas Gunnarsson [mailto:guson at home.se]
> > Sent: miercoles, 13 de enero de 2016 23:02
> > To: charlesmccall at gmail.com
> > Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> >
> >
> > It is more likely a linear actuator driven by a motor. A solenoid would
> > not be good as it would need to draw current for the whole time the
> > brakes are on. You can probably hear the motor whine when you flip the
> > switch (or whatever) and then it goes silent when the brakes are
> > on/off. Where there's legislation requiring a parking brake it's
> > usually also a requirement that it's mechanically actuated, hydraulics
> > are not allowed.
> >
> >
> > Tomas
> >
> > <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Charles McCall [charlesmccall at gmail.com]
> > Sent: 13/1/2016 10:53:34 PM
> > To:
> > [1]MikeLDrew at aol.com;guson at home.se;gaino at earthlink.net;
> detomaso at poca.co
> > m
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> > I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems work by
> > pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple mechanical
> > 'arm'
> > that
> > is pulling on a mechanical parking brake? Does anybody know that for
> > sure?
> > ****Audis use a mechanical parking brake actuated by a solenoid - the
> > second
> > case. They do not pressurize the fluid in the line. They have some
> > electronics to ease the brake on if you are moving, but actuating it at
> > any
> > speed locks up your brakes. They are either on or off.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > [2]DeTomaso at poca.com
> > [3]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> > use the links above.
> > .
> >
> > References
> >
> > 1. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com;guson at home.se;gaino at earthlink.net;
> detomaso at poca.com
> > 2. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> > 3. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 14
> > Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 23:09:38 +0100
> > From: Thomas Tornblom <thomas at hax.se>
> > To: detomaso at poca.com
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> > Message-ID: <5696CB22.5070902 at hax.se>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
> >
> > I believe VW electric parking brake have an electric motor directly on
> > the caliper, no cables.
> >
> >
> > Den 2016-01-13 22:53, Charles McCall skrev:
> >> I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems work by
> >> pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple mechanical
> 'arm'
> >> that
> >> is pulling on a mechanical parking brake? Does anybody know that for
> sure?
> >> ****Audis use a mechanical parking brake actuated by a solenoid - the
> second
> >> case. They do not pressurize the fluid in the line. They have some
> >> electronics to ease the brake on if you are moving, but actuating it at
> any
> >> speed locks up your brakes. They are either on or off.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>
> >> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> >> DeTomaso mailing list
> >> DeTomaso at poca.com
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> >
> > --
> > Real life: Thomas T?rnblom Email: thomas at hax.se
> > Snail mail: Banvallsv?gen 14 Phone: +46 18 32 31 18
> > S - 754 40 Uppsala, Sweden Mobile: +46 76 209 8320
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 15
> > Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 22:15:16 +0000 (UTC)
> > From: marshall smith <marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
> > To: <davel at emspace.com>, <detomaso at poca.com>,
> > <michael at michaelshortt.com>, <MikeLDrew at aol.com>
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Campagnolo Wheels
> > Message-ID:
> > <621399975.3851038.1452723316243.JavaMail.yahoo at mail.yahoo.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> >
> > FYI....
> >
> > I have 17 inch Hall 10 spoke wheels. They have welded centers and came
> with a center hub that had a dummy spinner and cone that covered the lug
> nuts or you could delete the cone and go with exposed lug nuts.
> > I was told that Boyd made these. Hall called them Mark 10s as I recall.
> >
> > Marshall
> > --------------------------------------------
> > On Wed, 1/13/16, Mike Drew via DeTomaso <detomaso at poca.com> wrote:
> >
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Campagnolo Wheels
> > To: davel at emspace.com, detomaso at poca.com, michael at michaelshortt.com
> > Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2016, 12:19 PM
> >
> > ???In a message dated
> > 1/10/16 21 39 38, davel at emspace.com
> > writes:
> >
> > ? ???My 17" Hall wheels are a lot
> > heavier than the mags.
> > ? ???I think that's fine for street, but
> > aren't you concerned about the
> > ? ???unsprung weight for track use?
> > ? ???dave
> >
> > ???>>>Interesting.? This was
> > apparently a reply to an original post by
> > ???Michael Shortt, but that post never came
> > through to me nor did it wind
> > ???up in my spam folder?
> > ???I'm noting some irregularities with the
> > forum these days....anyway,
> > ???thankfully Dave included Michael's
> > original post, so see replies below:
> >
> > ? ???On 1/08/16 9:17 PM, Michael Shortt
> > wrote:
> > ? ???>?
> > ???Greetings,
> > ? ???>
> > ? ???>? ???After
> > gathering all my wheels in one place and a brief
> > ? ???inventory today,
> > ? ???>? ???I have
> > 21 Campy wheels,
> >
> > ???>>>Uh...that's a lot. :>)
> >
> > ? ???>? ???5
> > Single Slots and a mixture of the 4 Double Slots and Zero
> > ? ???Triple
> > ? ???>? ???Slots
> > ( No 10") Plus 2 sets of 17" Boyd Coddington Wheels made
> > ? ???for Hall
> > ? ???>?
> > ???Pantera.
> >
> > ???>>>Uh, I don't think Coddington
> > every made wheels for Hall?? He did
> > ???make them for several other vendors, in
> > several different styles, some
> > ???markedly better than others.? Can you
> > share some images perhaps to help
> > ???in identification?
> > ???Hall did have somebody cast up ten-spoke
> > Si-looking wheels that were
> > ???welded together, and perhaps Coddington
> > was the source for those?
> >
> > ? ???>>?
> > ???And the 17" 10 spokes on the car now with
> > 335/35 and 245/40.
> >
> > ???>>>What kind of wheels are
> > those?? 10 spokes is a pretty vague
> > ???descriiption--although I admit I'm pretty
> > certain how many spokes they
> > ???have at least. :>)
> >
> > ? ???>
> > ? ???>? ???I am
> > keeping the 10 spokes with PZeros for Street use,
> > ? ???>? ???And
> > one set of the 17" Hall Wheels with 315/235 Kumhos for
> > ? ???Rally and
> > ? ???>? ???Track
> > use.
> >
> > ???>>>Wait--are you talking about
> > Coddington Campagnolo clones, or Hall
> > ???wheels which are three-piece,
> > bolt-together affairs, with a fake center
> > ???spinner?? Those are as different as
> > chalk and cheese (with the latter
> > ???being the only genuinely suspect/dangerous
> > wheels I've ever
> > ???encountered).
> >
> > ? ???>? ???I will
> > be keeping the Single Slots for Concours with skinny
> > ? ???Blackwalls
> > ? ???>? ???and a
> > set of Double Slots with Vintage Arrivas for Photos,
> > ? ???With a spare
> > ? ???>? ???Front
> > and a Spare Rear in case of a boo boo.
> >
> > ???>>>Sounds good!
> >
> > ? ???>
> > ? ???>>?
> > ???That leaves 2 full sets of double slot
> > wheels to dispose of.
> > ? ???Sell or
> > ? ???>? ???Trade.
> > Photos Available.
> >
> > ???>>>Somebody just asked for a
> > set--Guy Dellavecchia?? What kind are
> > ???they?? Guy might want to trade his
> > '71 two-slot wheels for some L-model
> > ???wheels?
> >
> > ? ???>? ???I'd
> > love a Triple Slot set. Anybody have some?
> >
> > ???>>>I have only ever seen two of
> > them (separately) in my life.? These
> > ???were an experimental wheel used on the
> > first pushmobile prototype.? I
> > ???have no idea how many were put into
> > production but I've never seen any
> > ???other car wearing them, so I would have to
> > imagine the number is very
> > ???small indeed.? Even 1006, the
> > earliest known Pantera extant, had single
> > ???slot wheels.
> > ???So don't hold your breath waiting for a
> > full set of three-slot wheels
> > ???to appear. :>)
> >
> > ? ???>I will sort them this week by
> > design, Thanks Mike Drew for the
> > ? ???Campy
> > ? ???>? ???Wheel
> > education.
> >
> > ???>>>It's my pleasure, but at this
> > point I'm far more concerned about
> > ???your aftermarket wheels.? Simply put,
> > I would never wish three-piece
> > ???Hall wheels on my worst enemy, and
> > especially not for track use.? We
> > ???collectively know about multiple failures,
> > which always led to rapid
> > ???deflation and a potential accident.?
> > Jack has often told of the car
> > ???that was zorching down Mt. Charleston in
> > Las Vegas at triple digit
> > ???speeds one year when his Hall wheel
> > dismantled himself; I believe it
> > ???thrust the car into the scenery, but can't
> > remember that aspect of the
> > ???story for sure.? Jack?
> > ???Larry Stock had a car on the grass at
> > Concorso that he was trying to
> > ???sell; a rear wheel simply blew apart while
> > the car was parked (!) and
> > ???he had to tow it back to Nevada as it
> > couldn't be fixed--it had cracked
> > ???halfway around.? The other three
> > wheels had similar cracks when they
> > ???were taken apart and inspected.
> > ???And Mad Dog's fire was indirectly caused
> > by the failure of his Hall
> > ???wheel; when the left rear wheel failed,
> > the car fell down onto the
> > ???freeway in Los Angeles.? What wasn't
> > seen was that during the collapse,
> > ???the brake line was damaged.? MD
> > swapped his stock wheels w/race tires
> > ???on and ran the Silver State a day or two
> > later, but when he stepped on
> > ???the brakes at the finish line, the line
> > ruptured, fluid sprayed onto
> > ???the exhaust and the rest was history.
> > ???And on and on and on...I'm sure there are
> > many others.
> > ???Those wheels were a very well-intentioned
> > design but they were woefully
> > ???under-engineered, and today should be
> > related either to a display case,
> > ???or a recycling bin IMHO....
> > ???So tell me exactly what kind of wheels
> > you're talking about here, as
> > ???the Coddington wheels (which I have
> > aesthetic problems with,
> > ???admittedly) are nothing like these Hall
> > wheels at all.
> >
> > ? ???>>?
> > ???Just let a local guy soda blast two of
> > them down to the green
> > ? ???primer,
> > ? ???>? ???I'll
> > probably paint them Argent Silver and Clear them just to
> > ? ???see the
> > ? ???>? ???final
> > results.
> > ? ???>? ???Photo
> > attached.
> > ? ???>
> >
> > ???>>>Since I didn't get your
> > original e-mail, I didn't get the photo
> > ???either....
> > ???Cheers!
> > ???Mike
> >
> > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > DeTomaso at poca.com
> > http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> >
> > To manage your subscription (change email address,
> > unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 16
> > Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 22:24:18 +0000 (UTC)
> > From: marshall smith <marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
> > To: <davel at emspace.com>, <detomaso at poca.com>,
> > <michael at michaelshortt.com>, <MikeLDrew at aol.com>, marshall smith
> > <marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Campagnolo Wheels
> > Message-ID:
> > <1003982879.3795306.1452723858144.JavaMail.yahoo at mail.yahoo.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> >
> > Additionally....Hall's 10 spoke wheels have the spokes slanted slightly
> inboard or towards the suspension. I believe Wilkinson made a 10 spoke
> wheel where the spokes slant outward. These are visually better looking
> giving a semi dished look and have slightly rounded spokes where the
> Hall's have sharp edged spokes.
> >
> > M
> > --------------------------------------------
> > On Wed, 1/13/16, marshall smith <marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Campagnolo Wheels
> > To: davel at emspace.com, detomaso at poca.com, michael at michaelshortt.com,
> MikeLDrew at aol.com
> > Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2016, 2:15 PM
> >
> > FYI....
> >
> > I have 17 inch Hall 10 spoke wheels. They have welded
> > centers and came with a center hub that had a dummy spinner
> > and cone that covered the lug nuts or you could delete the
> > cone and go with exposed lug nuts.
> > I was told that Boyd made these. Hall called them Mark 10s
> > as I recall.
> >
> > Marshall
> > --------------------------------------------
> > On Wed, 1/13/16, Mike Drew via DeTomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Campagnolo Wheels
> > To: davel at emspace.com,
> > detomaso at poca.com,
> > michael at michaelshortt.com
> > Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2016, 12:19 PM
> >
> > ???In a message dated
> > 1/10/16 21 39 38, davel at emspace.com
> > writes:
> >
> > ? ???My 17" Hall wheels are a lot
> > heavier than the mags.
> > ? ???I think that's fine for street, but
> > aren't you concerned about the
> > ? ???unsprung weight for track use?
> > ? ???dave
> >
> > ???>>>Interesting.? This was
> > apparently a reply to an original post by
> > ???Michael Shortt, but that post never came
> > through to me nor did it wind
> > ???up in my spam folder?
> > ???I'm noting some irregularities with the
> > forum these days....anyway,
> > ???thankfully Dave included Michael's
> > original post, so see replies below:
> >
> > ? ???On 1/08/16 9:17 PM, Michael Shortt
> > wrote:
> > ? ???>?
> > ???Greetings,
> > ? ???>
> > ? ???>? ???After
> > gathering all my wheels in one place and a brief
> > ? ???inventory today,
> > ? ???>? ???I have
> > 21 Campy wheels,
> >
> > ???>>>Uh...that's a lot. :>)
> >
> > ? ???>? ???5
> > Single Slots and a mixture of the 4 Double Slots and Zero
> > ? ???Triple
> > ? ???>? ???Slots
> > ( No 10") Plus 2 sets of 17" Boyd Coddington Wheels made
> > ? ???for Hall
> > ? ???>?
> > ???Pantera.
> >
> > ???>>>Uh, I don't think Coddington
> > every made wheels for Hall?? He did
> > ???make them for several other vendors, in
> > several different styles, some
> > ???markedly better than others.? Can you
> > share some images perhaps to help
> > ???in identification?
> > ???Hall did have somebody cast up ten-spoke
> > Si-looking wheels that were
> > ???welded together, and perhaps Coddington
> > was the source for those?
> >
> > ? ???>>?
> > ???And the 17" 10 spokes on the car now with
> > 335/35 and 245/40.
> >
> > ???>>>What kind of wheels are
> > those?? 10 spokes is a pretty vague
> > ???descriiption--although I admit I'm pretty
> > certain how many spokes they
> > ???have at least. :>)
> >
> > ? ???>
> > ? ???>? ???I am
> > keeping the 10 spokes with PZeros for Street use,
> > ? ???>? ???And
> > one set of the 17" Hall Wheels with 315/235 Kumhos for
> > ? ???Rally and
> > ? ???>? ???Track
> > use.
> >
> > ???>>>Wait--are you talking about
> > Coddington Campagnolo clones, or Hall
> > ???wheels which are three-piece,
> > bolt-together affairs, with a fake center
> > ???spinner?? Those are as different as
> > chalk and cheese (with the latter
> > ???being the only genuinely suspect/dangerous
> > wheels I've ever
> > ???encountered).
> >
> > ? ???>? ???I will
> > be keeping the Single Slots for Concours with skinny
> > ? ???Blackwalls
> > ? ???>? ???and a
> > set of Double Slots with Vintage Arrivas for Photos,
> > ? ???With a spare
> > ? ???>? ???Front
> > and a Spare Rear in case of a boo boo.
> >
> > ???>>>Sounds good!
> >
> > ? ???>
> > ? ???>>?
> > ???That leaves 2 full sets of double slot
> > wheels to dispose of.
> > ? ???Sell or
> > ? ???>? ???Trade.
> > Photos Available.
> >
> > ???>>>Somebody just asked for a
> > set--Guy Dellavecchia?? What kind are
> > ???they?? Guy might want to trade his
> > '71 two-slot wheels for some L-model
> > ???wheels?
> >
> > ? ???>? ???I'd
> > love a Triple Slot set. Anybody have some?
> >
> > ???>>>I have only ever seen two of
> > them (separately) in my life.? These
> > ???were an experimental wheel used on the
> > first pushmobile prototype.? I
> > ???have no idea how many were put into
> > production but I've never seen any
> > ???other car wearing them, so I would have to
> > imagine the number is very
> > ???small indeed.? Even 1006, the
> > earliest known Pantera extant, had single
> > ???slot wheels.
> > ???So don't hold your breath waiting for a
> > full set of three-slot wheels
> > ???to appear. :>)
> >
> > ? ???>I will sort them this week by
> > design, Thanks Mike Drew for the
> > ? ???Campy
> > ? ???>? ???Wheel
> > education.
> >
> > ???>>>It's my pleasure, but at this
> > point I'm far more concerned about
> > ???your aftermarket wheels.? Simply put,
> > I would never wish three-piece
> > ???Hall wheels on my worst enemy, and
> > especially not for track use.? We
> > ???collectively know about multiple failures,
> > which always led to rapid
> > ???deflation and a potential accident.?
> > Jack has often told of the car
> > ???that was zorching down Mt. Charleston in
> > Las Vegas at triple digit
> > ???speeds one year when his Hall wheel
> > dismantled himself; I believe it
> > ???thrust the car into the scenery, but can't
> > remember that aspect of the
> > ???story for sure.? Jack?
> > ???Larry Stock had a car on the grass at
> > Concorso that he was trying to
> > ???sell; a rear wheel simply blew apart while
> > the car was parked (!) and
> > ???he had to tow it back to Nevada as it
> > couldn't be fixed--it had cracked
> > ???halfway around.? The other three
> > wheels had similar cracks when they
> > ???were taken apart and inspected.
> > ???And Mad Dog's fire was indirectly caused
> > by the failure of his Hall
> > ???wheel; when the left rear wheel failed,
> > the car fell down onto the
> > ???freeway in Los Angeles.? What wasn't
> > seen was that during the collapse,
> > ???the brake line was damaged.? MD
> > swapped his stock wheels w/race tires
> > ???on and ran the Silver State a day or two
> > later, but when he stepped on
> > ???the brakes at the finish line, the line
> > ruptured, fluid sprayed onto
> > ???the exhaust and the rest was history.
> > ???And on and on and on...I'm sure there are
> > many others.
> > ???Those wheels were a very well-intentioned
> > design but they were woefully
> > ???under-engineered, and today should be
> > related either to a display case,
> > ???or a recycling bin IMHO....
> > ???So tell me exactly what kind of wheels
> > you're talking about here, as
> > ???the Coddington wheels (which I have
> > aesthetic problems with,
> > ???admittedly) are nothing like these Hall
> > wheels at all.
> >
> > ? ???>>?
> > ???Just let a local guy soda blast two of
> > them down to the green
> > ? ???primer,
> > ? ???>? ???I'll
> > probably paint them Argent Silver and Clear them just to
> > ? ???see the
> > ? ???>? ???final
> > results.
> > ? ???>? ???Photo
> > attached.
> > ? ???>
> >
> > ???>>>Since I didn't get your
> > original e-mail, I didn't get the photo
> > ???either....
> > ???Cheers!
> > ???Mike
> >
> > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > DeTomaso at poca.com
> > http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> >
> > To manage your subscription (change email address,
> > unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > DeTomaso at poca.com
> > http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> >
> > To manage your subscription (change email address,
> > unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 17
> > Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 17:44:23 -0500
> > From: Michael Shortt <michaelsavga at gmail.com>
> > To: marshall smith <marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>, detomaso at poca.com
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Campagnolo Wheels
> > Message-ID:
> > <CAEWtxWoBoP_w8V4hEH2fJDsmEVnwB4ueWkX8rJqC7R-FWTFj0A at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > Marshall,
> >
> > I have those too, considered having them Powdercoated, but the center
> > treatment would look silly. I have both the spinners and the big black
> > lugs. The other set is the 5 spoke from Hall/Boyd.
> >
> > Michael Shortt
> > On Jan 13, 2016 5:15 PM, "marshall smith" <marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> FYI....
> >>
> >> I have 17 inch Hall 10 spoke wheels. They have welded centers and came
> >> with a center hub that had a dummy spinner and cone that covered the lug
> >> nuts or you could delete the cone and go with exposed lug nuts.
> >> I was told that Boyd made these. Hall called them Mark 10s as I recall.
> >>
> >> Marshall
> >> --------------------------------------------
> >> On Wed, 1/13/16, Mike Drew via DeTomaso <detomaso at poca.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Campagnolo Wheels
> >> To: davel at emspace.com, detomaso at poca.com, michael at michaelshortt.com
> >> Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2016, 12:19 PM
> >>
> >> In a message dated
> >> 1/10/16 21 39 38, davel at emspace.com
> >> writes:
> >>
> >> My 17" Hall wheels are a lot
> >> heavier than the mags.
> >> I think that's fine for street, but
> >> aren't you concerned about the
> >> unsprung weight for track use?
> >> dave
> >>
> >>>>> Interesting. This was
> >> apparently a reply to an original post by
> >> Michael Shortt, but that post never came
> >> through to me nor did it wind
> >> up in my spam folder?
> >> I'm noting some irregularities with the
> >> forum these days....anyway,
> >> thankfully Dave included Michael's
> >> original post, so see replies below:
> >>
> >> On 1/08/16 9:17 PM, Michael Shortt
> >> wrote:
> >> Greetings,
> >>>
> >>> After
> >> gathering all my wheels in one place and a brief
> >> inventory today,
> >>> I have
> >> 21 Campy wheels,
> >>
> >>>>> Uh...that's a lot. :>)
> >>
> >>> 5
> >> Single Slots and a mixture of the 4 Double Slots and Zero
> >> Triple
> >>> Slots
> >> ( No 10") Plus 2 sets of 17" Boyd Coddington Wheels made
> >> for Hall
> >> Pantera.
> >>
> >>>>> Uh, I don't think Coddington
> >> every made wheels for Hall? He did
> >> make them for several other vendors, in
> >> several different styles, some
> >> markedly better than others. Can you
> >> share some images perhaps to help
> >> in identification?
> >> Hall did have somebody cast up ten-spoke
> >> Si-looking wheels that were
> >> welded together, and perhaps Coddington
> >> was the source for those?
> >>
> >> And the 17" 10 spokes on the car now with
> >> 335/35 and 245/40.
> >>
> >>>>> What kind of wheels are
> >> those? 10 spokes is a pretty vague
> >> descriiption--although I admit I'm pretty
> >> certain how many spokes they
> >> have at least. :>)
> >>
> >>>
> >>> I am
> >> keeping the 10 spokes with PZeros for Street use,
> >>> And
> >> one set of the 17" Hall Wheels with 315/235 Kumhos for
> >> Rally and
> >>> Track
> >> use.
> >>
> >>>>> Wait--are you talking about
> >> Coddington Campagnolo clones, or Hall
> >> wheels which are three-piece,
> >> bolt-together affairs, with a fake center
> >> spinner? Those are as different as
> >> chalk and cheese (with the latter
> >> being the only genuinely suspect/dangerous
> >> wheels I've ever
> >> encountered).
> >>
> >>> I will
> >> be keeping the Single Slots for Concours with skinny
> >> Blackwalls
> >>> and a
> >> set of Double Slots with Vintage Arrivas for Photos,
> >> With a spare
> >>> Front
> >> and a Spare Rear in case of a boo boo.
> >>
> >>>>> Sounds good!
> >>
> >>>
> >> That leaves 2 full sets of double slot
> >> wheels to dispose of.
> >> Sell or
> >>> Trade.
> >> Photos Available.
> >>
> >>>>> Somebody just asked for a
> >> set--Guy Dellavecchia? What kind are
> >> they? Guy might want to trade his
> >> '71 two-slot wheels for some L-model
> >> wheels?
> >>
> >>> I'd
> >> love a Triple Slot set. Anybody have some?
> >>
> >>>>> I have only ever seen two of
> >> them (separately) in my life. These
> >> were an experimental wheel used on the
> >> first pushmobile prototype. I
> >> have no idea how many were put into
> >> production but I've never seen any
> >> other car wearing them, so I would have to
> >> imagine the number is very
> >> small indeed. Even 1006, the
> >> earliest known Pantera extant, had single
> >> slot wheels.
> >> So don't hold your breath waiting for a
> >> full set of three-slot wheels
> >> to appear. :>)
> >>
> >>> I will sort them this week by
> >> design, Thanks Mike Drew for the
> >> Campy
> >>> Wheel
> >> education.
> >>
> >>>>> It's my pleasure, but at this
> >> point I'm far more concerned about
> >> your aftermarket wheels. Simply put,
> >> I would never wish three-piece
> >> Hall wheels on my worst enemy, and
> >> especially not for track use. We
> >> collectively know about multiple failures,
> >> which always led to rapid
> >> deflation and a potential accident.
> >> Jack has often told of the car
> >> that was zorching down Mt. Charleston in
> >> Las Vegas at triple digit
> >> speeds one year when his Hall wheel
> >> dismantled himself; I believe it
> >> thrust the car into the scenery, but can't
> >> remember that aspect of the
> >> story for sure. Jack?
> >> Larry Stock had a car on the grass at
> >> Concorso that he was trying to
> >> sell; a rear wheel simply blew apart while
> >> the car was parked (!) and
> >> he had to tow it back to Nevada as it
> >> couldn't be fixed--it had cracked
> >> halfway around. The other three
> >> wheels had similar cracks when they
> >> were taken apart and inspected.
> >> And Mad Dog's fire was indirectly caused
> >> by the failure of his Hall
> >> wheel; when the left rear wheel failed,
> >> the car fell down onto the
> >> freeway in Los Angeles. What wasn't
> >> seen was that during the collapse,
> >> the brake line was damaged. MD
> >> swapped his stock wheels w/race tires
> >> on and ran the Silver State a day or two
> >> later, but when he stepped on
> >> the brakes at the finish line, the line
> >> ruptured, fluid sprayed onto
> >> the exhaust and the rest was history.
> >> And on and on and on...I'm sure there are
> >> many others.
> >> Those wheels were a very well-intentioned
> >> design but they were woefully
> >> under-engineered, and today should be
> >> related either to a display case,
> >> or a recycling bin IMHO....
> >> So tell me exactly what kind of wheels
> >> you're talking about here, as
> >> the Coddington wheels (which I have
> >> aesthetic problems with,
> >> admittedly) are nothing like these Hall
> >> wheels at all.
> >>
> >> Just let a local guy soda blast two of
> >> them down to the green
> >> primer,
> >>> I'll
> >> probably paint them Argent Silver and Clear them just to
> >> see the
> >>> final
> >> results.
> >>> Photo
> >> attached.
> >>
> >>>>> Since I didn't get your
> >> original e-mail, I didn't get the photo
> >> either....
> >> Cheers!
> >> Mike
> >>
> >> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>
> >> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> >> DeTomaso mailing list
> >> DeTomaso at poca.com
> >> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> >>
> >> To manage your subscription (change email address,
> >> unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > Marshall,
> >
> > I have those too, considered having them Powdercoated, but the center
> > treatment would look silly. I have both the spinners and the big black
> > lugs. The other set is the 5 spoke from Hall/Boyd.
> >
> > Michael Shortt
> >
> > On Jan 13, 2016 5:15 PM, "marshall smith"
> > <[1]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >
> > FYI....
> > I have 17 inch Hall 10 spoke wheels. They have welded centers and
> > came with a center hub that had a dummy spinner and cone that
> > covered the lug nuts or you could delete the cone and go with
> > exposed lug nuts.
> > I was told that Boyd made these. Hall called them Mark 10s as I
> > recall.
> > Marshall
> > --------------------------------------------
> > On Wed, 1/13/16, Mike Drew via DeTomaso <[2]detomaso at poca.com>
> > wrote:
> > A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Campagnolo Wheels
> > A To: [3]davel at emspace.com, [4]detomaso at poca.com,
> > [5]michael at michaelshortt.com
> > A Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2016, 12:19 PM
> > A A A A In a message dated
> > A 1/10/16 21 39 38, [6]davel at emspace.com
> > A writes:
> > A A A A A My 17" Hall wheels are a lot
> > A heavier than the mags.
> > A A A A A I think that's fine for street, but
> > A aren't you concerned about the
> > A A A A A unsprung weight for track use?
> > A A A A A dave
> > A A A A >>>Interesting.A This was
> > A apparently a reply to an original post by
> > A A A A Michael Shortt, but that post never came
> > A through to me nor did it wind
> > A A A A up in my spam folder?
> > A A A A I'm noting some irregularities with the
> > A forum these days....anyway,
> > A A A A thankfully Dave included Michael's
> > A original post, so see replies below:
> > A A A A A On 1/08/16 9:17 PM, Michael Shortt
> > A wrote:
> > A A A A A >A
> > A A A A Greetings,
> > A A A A A >
> > A A A A A >A A A A After
> > A gathering all my wheels in one place and a brief
> > A A A A A inventory today,
> > A A A A A >A A A A I have
> > A 21 Campy wheels,
> > A A A A >>>Uh...that's a lot. :>)
> > A A A A A >A A A A 5
> > A Single Slots and a mixture of the 4 Double Slots and Zero
> > A A A A A Triple
> > A A A A A >A A A A Slots
> > A ( No 10") Plus 2 sets of 17" Boyd Coddington Wheels made
> > A A A A A for Hall
> > A A A A A >A
> > A A A A Pantera.
> > A A A A >>>Uh, I don't think Coddington
> > A every made wheels for Hall?A He did
> > A A A A make them for several other vendors, in
> > A several different styles, some
> > A A A A markedly better than others.A Can you
> > A share some images perhaps to help
> > A A A A in identification?
> > A A A A Hall did have somebody cast up ten-spoke
> > A Si-looking wheels that were
> > A A A A welded together, and perhaps Coddington
> > A was the source for those?
> > A A A A A >>A
> > A A A A And the 17" 10 spokes on the car now with
> > A 335/35 and 245/40.
> > A A A A >>>What kind of wheels are
> > A those?A 10 spokes is a pretty vague
> > A A A A descriiption--although I admit I'm pretty
> > A certain how many spokes they
> > A A A A have at least. :>)
> > A A A A A >
> > A A A A A >A A A A I am
> > A keeping the 10 spokes with PZeros for Street use,
> > A A A A A >A A A A And
> > A one set of the 17" Hall Wheels with 315/235 Kumhos for
> > A A A A A Rally and
> > A A A A A >A A A A Track
> > A use.
> > A A A A >>>Wait--are you talking about
> > A Coddington Campagnolo clones, or Hall
> > A A A A wheels which are three-piece,
> > A bolt-together affairs, with a fake center
> > A A A A spinner?A Those are as different as
> > A chalk and cheese (with the latter
> > A A A A being the only genuinely suspect/dangerous
> > A wheels I've ever
> > A A A A encountered).
> > A A A A A >A A A A I will
> > A be keeping the Single Slots for Concours with skinny
> > A A A A A Blackwalls
> > A A A A A >A A A A and a
> > A set of Double Slots with Vintage Arrivas for Photos,
> > A A A A A With a spare
> > A A A A A >A A A A Front
> > A and a Spare Rear in case of a boo boo.
> > A A A A >>>Sounds good!
> > A A A A A >
> > A A A A A >>A
> > A A A A That leaves 2 full sets of double slot
> > A wheels to dispose of.
> > A A A A A Sell or
> > A A A A A >A A A A Trade.
> > A Photos Available.
> > A A A A >>>Somebody just asked for a
> > A set--Guy Dellavecchia?A What kind are
> > A A A A they?A Guy might want to trade his
> > A '71 two-slot wheels for some L-model
> > A A A A wheels?
> > A A A A A >A A A A I'd
> > A love a Triple Slot set. Anybody have some?
> > A A A A >>>I have only ever seen two of
> > A them (separately) in my life.A These
> > A A A A were an ...
-------------- next part --------------
i have pnly seen Aluminum shields myself, for those I would offer the
shield alone should provide enough protection in both actual physical
blockage, radiant and reflective heat.
IMHO, any additional would only serve to insulate or retain heat.
Michael Shortt
On Jan 14, 2016 6:59 PM, "tom ware" <[1]ace595 at hotmail.com> wrote:
Gas tank shield ?
I have a new stainless steel shield that came with my project.
Is it the norm to insulate it for heat.?
Thanks
Tom
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jan 14, 2016, at 2:00 PM, <[2]detomaso-request at poca.com>
<[3]detomaso-request at poca.com> wrote:
>
> Send DeTomaso mailing list submissions to
>A A [4]detomaso at poca.com
>
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> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>A A [7]detomaso-owner at poca.com
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more
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> than "Re: Contents of DeTomaso digest..."
>
>
> Daily Detomaso List Digest
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>A A 1. Re: parking brakes (Tomas Gunnarsson)
>A A 2. Re: parking brakes ([8]MikeLDrew at aol.com)
>A A 3. Re: parking brakes ([9]MikeLDrew at aol.com)
>A A 4. Re: parking brakes ([10]MikeLDrew at aol.com)
>A A 5. Re: Campagnolo Wheels ([11]MikeLDrew at aol.com)
>A A 6. Re: parking brakes (Stephen)
>A A 7. Re: parking brakes (L GRAY)
>A A 8. Re: Campagnolo Wheels (Michael Shortt)
>A A 9. Re: parking brakes (Tomas Gunnarsson)
>A 10. Re: Campagnolo Wheels (Larry Stock)
>A 11. Re: parking brakes (Charles McCall)
>A 12. Re: parking brakes (Tomas Gunnarsson)
>A 13. Re: parking brakes (Charles McCall)
>A 14. Re: parking brakes (Thomas Tornblom)
>A 15. Re: Campagnolo Wheels (marshall smith)
>A 16. Re: Campagnolo Wheels (marshall smith)
>A 17. Re: Campagnolo Wheels (Michael Shortt)
>A 18. Re: parking brakes (Ken Green)
>A 19. Re: parking brakes (Scott Bell)
>A 20. NPC 91 Merc parts (B Hower)
>A 21. NPC 2000 BMW 740i Sport for whole or parts (Rob Dumoulin)
>A 22. Re: NPC 2000 BMW 740i Sport for whole or parts
>A A A (Mirril M. McMullen)
>A 23. Re: NPC 2000 BMW 740i Sport for whole or parts (Rob
Dumoulin)
>A 24. Re: NPC 2000 BMW 740i Sport for whole or parts (Rob
Dumoulin)
>A 25. Re: parking brakes (marshall smith)
>
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------
--
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 11:27:31 -0800
> From: "Tomas Gunnarsson" <[12]guson at home.se>
> To: <[13]gaino at earthlink.net>
> Cc: <[14]steve at snclocks.com>,A A <[15]detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> Message-ID: <[16]46D238640B764EE3A581C2544BE74A80 at mail2world.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Yes Bill, most likely. I have installed calipers on the front side
of
> the uprights, the holes were threaded and all. I think I heard
that not
> all uprights are drilled front and back but it may be that only
newer
> cars that suffer from that.
>
> Tomas
>
>
>
> <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
>
>A A A A From: bill gaino [[17]gaino at earthlink.net]
> Sent: 13/1/2016 6:13:51 PM
> To: [18]steve at snclocks.com;[19]guson at home.se
> Cc: [20]detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
>
>
> Is it possible to mount the stock calipers in the front position
to use
> as Ebrake?A He already has the Wilwoods installed and saftey
wired on
> the rear mounts..Bill 1362
>
>
>
>A A -----Original Message-----
>A A From: Stephen
>A A Sent: Jan 13, 2016 11:21 AM
>A A To: 'Tomas Gunnarsson' , [21]gaino at earthlink.net
>A A Cc: [22]detomaso at poca.com
>A A Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
>
>
>
>A A Whilst 'inelegant', at least the stock system works well.A I
> installed Wildwoods on the front of the discs and kept the
originals on
> the back.A I did have the originals coated black - heck, doesn't
look
> that bad.
>
>
>
>A A Stephen Nelson
>
>
>
>A A -----Original Message-----
>A A From: DeTomaso [mailto:[23]detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On
Behalf Of
> Tomas Gunnarsson
>A A Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2016 8:03 AM
>A A To: [24]gaino at earthlink.net
>A A Cc: [25]detomaso at poca.com
>A A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
>
>
>
>A A That's simply not a good solution. Doesn't work as an
emergency
> brake and parking brake function is dubious. If you park your car
with
> the brakes hot they may release when they cool off.
>
>
>
>A A Tomas
>
>
>
>A A <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
>
>
>
>A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A From: bill gaino
> [[26]gaino at earthlink.net]
>
>A A Sent: 13/1/2016 4:52:29 PM
>
>A A To: [27]detomaso at poca.com <mailto:[28]detomaso at poca.com>
>
>A A Subject: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
>
>
>
>A A Is anybody using a solinoid based parking brake? Something
that
> that blocks fluid in the brake lines to hold calipers pressed
against
> the rotors. My customer does not want the extra set of E brake
> calipers..
>
>A A like IPSCO offers. Bill 1362
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
[29]https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref
=ts&fref
>
<[30]https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?re
f=ts&fre
> f>
>
>A A =ts
>
>A A If you want it slick. [31]www.slickpaint.com
> <[32]http://www.slickpaint.com>A like us on facebook
>
>
>
>A A _______________________________________________
>
>
>
>A A Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
>A A Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing
> list [33]DeTomaso at poca.com <mailto:[34]DeTomaso at poca.com>
> [35]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> <[36]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com>
>
>
>
>A A To manage your subscription (change email address,
unsubscribe,
> etc.) use the links above.
>
>A A .
>
>
>
>
>
[37]https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref
=ts&fref
> =ts
> If you want it slick.A [38]www.slickpaint.comA like us on
facebook
>
>
> .
> -------------- next part --------------
>A A Yes Bill, most likely. I have installed calipers on the front
side of
>A A the uprights, the holes were threaded and all. I think I heard
that not
>A A all uprights are drilled front and back but it may be that
only newer
>A A cars that suffer from that.
>
>A A Tomas
>A A <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
>A A A A From: bill gaino [[39]gaino at earthlink.net]
>A A Sent: 13/1/2016 6:13:51 PM
>A A To: [40]steve at snclocks.com;[41]guson at home.se
>A A Cc: [42]detomaso at poca.com
>A A Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
>A A Is it possible to mount the stock calipers in the front
position to use
>A A as Ebrake?A He already has the Wilwoods installed and saftey
wired on
>A A the rear mounts..Bill 1362
>
>A A A -----Original Message-----
>A A A From: Stephen
>A A A Sent: Jan 13, 2016 11:21 AM
>A A A To: 'Tomas Gunnarsson' , [43]gaino at earthlink.net
>A A A Cc: [44]detomaso at poca.com
>A A A Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
>
>A A Whilst `inelegant', at least the stock system works well.A I
installed
>A A Wildwoods on the front of the discs and kept the originals on
the
>A A back.A I did have the originals coated black - heck, doesn't
look that
>A A bad.
>
>
>A A Stephen Nelson
>
>
>A A -----Original Message-----
>A A From: DeTomaso [mailto:[45]detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On
Behalf Of Tomas
>A A Gunnarsson
>A A Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2016 8:03 AM
>A A To: [46]gaino at earthlink.net
>A A Cc: [47]detomaso at poca.com
>A A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
>
>
>A A That's simply not a good solution. Doesn't work as an
emergency brake
>A A and parking brake function is dubious. If you park your car
with the
>A A brakes hot they may release when they cool off.
>
>A A Tomas
>
>
>A A <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
>
>
>A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A From: bill gaino
[[48]gaino at earthlink.net]
>
>A A Sent: 13/1/2016 4:52:29 PM
>
>A A To: [1][49]detomaso at poca.com
>
>A A Subject: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
>
>
>A A Is anybody using a solinoid based parking brake? Something
that that
>A A blocks fluid in the brake lines to hold calipers pressed
against the
>A A rotors. My customer does not want the extra set of E brake
calipers..
>
>A A like IPSCO offers. Bill 1362
>
>
>
>A
A [2][50]https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/12904963714963
4?ref=ts&
>A A fref
>
>A A =ts
>
>A A If you want it slick. [3][51]www.slickpaint.com like us on
facebook
>
>
>A A _______________________________________________
>
>
>A A Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
>A A Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing
list
>A A [4][52]DeTomaso at poca.com
>A A [5][53]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
>A A To manage your subscription (change email address,
unsubscribe, etc.)
>A A use the links above.
>
>A A .
>
>
>
[54]https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref
=ts&fref=ts
> If you want it slick.A [55]www.slickpaint.comA like us on
facebook
>
>A A .
>
> References
>
>A A 1. mailto:[56]detomaso at poca.com
>A A 2.
[57]https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref
=ts&fref
>A A 3. [58]http://www.slickpaint.com/
>A A 4. mailto:[59]DeTomaso at poca.com
>A A 5. [60]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 14:51:53 -0500
> From: [61]MikeLDrew at aol.com
> To: [62]guson at home.se, [63]gaino at earthlink.net
> Cc: [64]detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> Message-ID: <[65]72fdba.12644e17.43c804d9 at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
> In a message dated 1/13/16 8 03 59, [66]guson at home.se writes:
>
>
>> That's simply not a good solution. Doesn't work as an emergency
brake
>> and parking brake function is dubious. If you park your car with
the
>> brakes hot they may release when they cool off.
>
>>>> Tomas, you're talking about a simple line lock.A A He's asking
about an
> (electrical) solenoid-operated system, which was pioneered by the
OEMs and is
> in wide use (and is, significantly, sufficiently effective to
satisfy
> government regulations worldwide).A A Such systems are now
available in the
> aftermarket.
>
> I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems work
by
> pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple
mechanical 'arm' that
> is pulling on a mechanical parking brake?A A Does anybody know
that for sure?
>
> You're correct in asserting that a simple line lock is
insufficient to hold
> a car for any length of time; they are designed for very
short-term use
> only.A A Geoff Peters' Pantera nearly missed (by less than an
inch) crashing
> into an Aston Martin DB4 when he let a friend borrow it and the
fool parked it
> overnight on a slope in neutral with the line lock engaged.A A As
the brakes
> cooled at night, they released and the car rolled through a lot
crowded with
> collector cars, brushed past the Aston and crashed through a hedge
and down
> into a ditch!A A Fortunately it was unhurt, but it could have
been very bad
> indeed.
>
> A solenoid-type system that actuated the brake hydraulics would be
much
> more effective because it has its own master cylinder that would
still hold
> pressure even as the fluid cooled.A A However, it would not serve
as a proper
> emergency brake if there was a hydraulic failure (say, a seal blew
out in a
> caliper) whereas a cable-type system that mechanically leverages
the
> components of the caliper requires no hydraulics to work.
>
> Mike (who has had no parking brake at all for the past 30
years...park
> wisely and hope for the best!)
> -------------- next part --------------
>A A In a message dated 1/13/16 8 03 59, [67]guson at home.se writes:
>
>A A A That's simply not a good solution. Doesn't work as an
emergency
>A A A brake
>A A A and parking brake function is dubious. If you park your car
with the
>A A A brakes hot they may release when they cool off.
>
>>>> Tomas, you're talking about a simple line lock.A He's asking
about
>A A an (electrical) solenoid-operated system, which was pioneered
by the
>A A OEMs and is in wide use (and is, significantly, sufficiently
effective
>A A to satisfy government regulations worldwide).A Such systems
are now
>A A available in the aftermarket.
>A A I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems
work by
>A A pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple
mechanical
>A A 'arm' that is pulling on a mechanical parking brake?A Does
anybody know
>A A that for sure?
>A A You're correct in asserting that a simple line lock is
insufficient to
>A A hold a car for any length of time; they are designed for very
>A A short-term use only.A Geoff Peters' Pantera nearly missed (by
less than
>A A an inch) crashing into an Aston Martin DB4 when he let a
friend borrow
>A A it and the fool parked it overnight on a slope in neutral with
the line
>A A lock engaged.A As the brakes cooled at night, they released
and the car
>A A rolled through a lot crowded with collector cars, brushed past
the
>A A Aston and crashed through a hedge and down into a ditch!A
Fortunately
>A A it was unhurt, but it could have been very bad indeed.
>A A A solenoid-type system that actuated the brake hydraulics
would be much
>A A more effective because it has its own master cylinder that
would still
>A A hold pressure even as the fluid cooled.A However, it would
not serve as
>A A a proper emergency brake if there was a hydraulic failure
(say, a seal
>A A blew out in a caliper) whereas a cable-type system that
mechanically
>A A leverages the components of the caliper requires no hydraulics
to work.
>A A Mike (who has had no parking brake at all for the past 30
years...park
>A A wisely and hope for the best!)
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 14:51:57 -0500
> From: [68]MikeLDrew at aol.com
> To: [69]gaino at earthlink.net, [70]steve at snclocks.com,
[71]guson at home.se
> Cc: [72]detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> Message-ID: <[73]72fdc9.23690f23.43c804dd at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
> In a message dated 1/13/16 9 15 10, [74]gaino at earthlink.net
writes:
>
>
>> ?? Is it possible to mount the stock calipers in the front
position to
>> use
>> ?? as Ebrake?? He already has the Wilwoods installed and saftey
wired on
>> ?? the rear mounts.
>
>>>> People who say 'yes' are forgetting about simple mechanics.A
A The
> calipers are actuated by cables which are introduced into the rear
of the
> wheelwell.A A If the calipers are repositioned the cables will no
longer fit, plus if
> longer ones were used, they would foul the driveshafts on their
way
> forward.A A The only possible way to make a system like that work
would be to
> reposition the cables so they entered the wheelwells ahead of,
instead of behind
> the hub carriers, and there would be a fair bit of engineering
involved.A A I
> suppose it might be possible, but it certainly won't be a trivial
exercise.
>
> Mike
> -------------- next part --------------
>A A In a message dated 1/13/16 9 15 10, [75]gaino at earthlink.net
writes:
>
>A A A A Is it possible to mount the stock calipers in the front
position
>A A A to use
>A A A A as Ebrake?A He already has the Wilwoods installed and
saftey
>A A A wired on
>A A A A the rear mounts.
>
>>>> People who say 'yes' are forgetting about simple mechanics.A
The
>A A calipers are actuated by cables which are introduced into the
rear of
>A A the wheelwell.A If the calipers are repositioned the cables
will no
>A A longer fit, plus if longer ones were used, they would foul the
>A A driveshafts on their way forward.A The only possible way to
make a
>A A system like that work would be to reposition the cables so
they entered
>A A the wheelwells ahead of, instead of behind the hub carriers,
and there
>A A would be a fair bit of engineering involved.A I suppose it
might be
>A A possible, but it certainly won't be a trivial exercise.
>A A Mike
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 14:52:03 -0500
> From: [76]MikeLDrew at aol.com
> To: [77]guson at home.se, [78]gaino at earthlink.net
> Cc: [79]detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> Message-ID: <[80]72fddd.5edc2feb.43c804e3 at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
> In a message dated 1/13/16 11 28 28, [81]guson at home.se writes:
>
>
>> Yes Bill, most likely. I have installed calipers on the front
side of
>> the uprights, the holes were threaded and all. I think I heard
that not
>> all uprights are drilled front and back but it may be that only
newer
>> cars that suffer from that.
>
>>>> True--the GT5/GT5-S uprights are 'handed' with mounting holes
only on
> one side (which, when you think about it, is really dumb from a
production
> standpoint).
>
> Mike
> -------------- next part --------------
>A A In a message dated 1/13/16 11 28 28, [82]guson at home.se writes:
>
>A A A Yes Bill, most likely. I have installed calipers on the
front side
>A A A of
>A A A the uprights, the holes were threaded and all. I think I
heard that
>A A A not
>A A A all uprights are drilled front and back but it may be that
only
>A A A newer
>A A A cars that suffer from that.
>
>>>> True--the GT5/GT5-S uprights are 'handed' with mounting holes
only
>A A on one side (which, when you think about it, is really dumb
from a
>A A production standpoint).
>A A Mike
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 15:19:19 -0500
> From: [83]MikeLDrew at aol.com
> To: [84]davel at emspace.com, [85]detomaso at poca.com,
[86]michael at michaelshortt.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Campagnolo Wheels
> Message-ID: <[87]73161a.56810af3.43c80b47 at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
> In a message dated 1/10/16 21 39 38, [88]davel at emspace.com writes:
>
>
>>
>> My 17" Hall wheels are a lot heavier than the mags.
>> I think that's fine for street, but aren't you concerned about
the
>> unsprung weight for track use?
>> dave
>>
>>
>>>> Interesting.A A This was apparently a reply to an original
post by
> Michael Shortt, but that post never came through to me nor did it
wind up in my
> spam folder?
>
> I'm noting some irregularities with the forum these
days....anyway,
> thankfully Dave included Michael's original post, so see replies
below:
>
>
>>> On 1/08/16 9:17 PM, Michael Shortt wrote:
>>> ? ?? Greetings,
>>>
>>> ? ?? After gathering all my wheels in one place and a brief
inventory
>> today,
>>> ? ?? I have 21 Campy wheels,
>>
>>>> Uh...that's a lot. :>)
>
>
>
>>> ? ?? 5 Single Slots and a mixture of the 4 Double Slots and Zero
Triple
>>> ? ?? Slots ( No 10") Plus 2 sets of 17" Boyd Coddington Wheels
made for
>> Hall
>>> ? ?? Pantera.
>
>>>> Uh, I don't think Coddington every made wheels for Hall?A A He
did make
> them for several other vendors, in several different styles, some
markedly
> better than others.A A Can you share some images perhaps to help
in
> identification?
>
> Hall did have somebody cast up ten-spoke Si-looking wheels that
were welded
> together, and perhaps Coddington was the source for those?
>
>>>> ? ?? And the 17" 10 spokes on the car now with 335/35 and
245/40.
>>
>>>> What kind of wheels are those?A A 10 spokes is a pretty vague
> descriiption--although I admit I'm pretty certain how many spokes
they have at least. :>
> )
>
>>>
>>> ? ?? I am keeping the 10 spokes with PZeros for Street use,
>>> ? ?? And one set of the 17" Hall Wheels with 315/235 Kumhos for
Rally and
>>> ? ?? Track use.
>>
>>>> Wait--are you talking about Coddington Campagnolo clones, or
Hall wheels
> which are three-piece, bolt-together affairs, with a fake center
spinner?
> Those are as different as chalk and cheese (with the latter being
the only
> genuinely suspect/dangerous wheels I've ever encountered).
>
>
>>> ? ?? I will be keeping the Single Slots for Concours with skinny
>> Blackwalls
>>> ? ?? and a set of Double Slots with Vintage Arrivas for Photos,
With a
>> spare
>>> ? ?? Front and a Spare Rear in case of a boo boo.
>>
>>>> Sounds good!
>>>
>>>> ? ?? That leaves 2 full sets of double slot wheels to dispose
of. Sell
>> or
>>> ? ?? Trade. Photos Available.
>>
>>>> Somebody just asked for a set--Guy Dellavecchia?A A What kind
are they?
> Guy might want to trade his '71 two-slot wheels for some L-model
wheels?
>
>>> ? ?? I'd love a Triple Slot set. Anybody have some?
>>
>>>> I have only ever seen two of them (separately) in my life.A
A These were
> an experimental wheel used on the first pushmobile prototype.A
A I have no
> idea how many were put into production but I've never seen any
other car
> wearing them, so I would have to imagine the number is very small
indeed.A A Even
> 1006, the earliest known Pantera extant, had single slot wheels.
>
> So don't hold your breath waiting for a full set of three-slot
wheels to
> appear. :>)
>
>>> I will sort them this week by design, Thanks Mike Drew for the
Campy
>>> ? ?? Wheel education.
>>
>>>> It's my pleasure, but at this point I'm far more concerned
about your
> aftermarket wheels.A A Simply put, I would never wish three-piece
Hall wheels
> on my worst enemy, and especially not for track use.A A We
collectively know
> about multiple failures, which always led to rapid deflation and a
potential
> accident.A A Jack has often told of the car that was zorching
down Mt. Ch
> arleston in Las Vegas at triple digit speeds one year when his
Hall wheel
> dismantled himself; I believe it thrust the car into the scenery,
but can't
> remember that aspect of the story for sure.A A Jack?
>
> Larry Stock had a car on the grass at Concorso that he was trying
to sell;
> a rear wheel simply blew apart while the car was parked (!) and he
had to
> tow it back to Nevada as it couldn't be fixed--it had cracked
halfway around.
> The other three wheels had similar cracks when they were taken
apart and
> inspected.
>
> And Mad Dog's fire was indirectly caused by the failure of his
Hall wheel;
> when the left rear wheel failed, the car fell down onto the
freeway in Los
> Angeles.A A What wasn't seen was that during the collapse, the
brake line was
> damaged.A A MD swapped his stock wheels w/race tires on and ran
the Silver
> State a day or two later, but when he stepped on the brakes at the
finish
> line, the line ruptured, fluid sprayed onto the exhaust and the
rest was
> history.
>
> And on and on and on...I'm sure there are many others.
>
> Those wheels were a very well-intentioned design but they were
woefully
> under-engineered, and today should be related either to a display
case, or a
> recycling bin IMHO....
>
> So tell me exactly what kind of wheels you're talking about here,
as the
> Coddington wheels (which I have aesthetic problems with,
admittedly) are
> nothing like these Hall wheels at all.
>
>>>> ? ?? Just let a local guy soda blast two of them down to the
green
>> primer,
>>> ? ?? I'll probably paint them Argent Silver and Clear them just
to see
>> the
>>> ? ?? final results.
>>> ? ?? Photo attached.
>>
>>>> Since I didn't get your original e-mail, I didn't get the photo
> either....
>
> Cheers!
>
> Mike
> -------------- next part --------------
>A A In a message dated 1/10/16 21 39 38, [89]davel at emspace.com
writes:
>
>A A A My 17" Hall wheels are a lot heavier than the mags.
>A A A I think that's fine for street, but aren't you concerned
about the
>A A A unsprung weight for track use?
>A A A dave
>
>>>> Interesting.A This was apparently a reply to an original post
by
>A A Michael Shortt, but that post never came through to me nor did
it wind
>A A up in my spam folder?
>A A I'm noting some irregularities with the forum these
days....anyway,
>A A thankfully Dave included Michael's original post, so see
replies below:
>
>>A A A On 1/08/16 9:17 PM, Michael Shortt wrote:
>>A A Greetings,
>>
>>A A After gathering all my wheels in one place and a brief
>A A A inventory today,
>>A A I have 21 Campy wheels,
>
>>>> Uh...that's a lot. :>)
>
>>A A 5 Single Slots and a mixture of the 4 Double Slots and Zero
>A A A Triple
>>A A Slots ( No 10") Plus 2 sets of 17" Boyd Coddington Wheels
made
>A A A for Hall
>>A A Pantera.
>
>>>> Uh, I don't think Coddington every made wheels for Hall?A He
did
>A A make them for several other vendors, in several different
styles, some
>A A markedly better than others.A Can you share some images
perhaps to help
>A A in identification?
>A A Hall did have somebody cast up ten-spoke Si-looking wheels
that were
>A A welded together, and perhaps Coddington was the source for
those?
>
>>>A A And the 17" 10 spokes on the car now with 335/35 and
245/40.
>
>>>> What kind of wheels are those?A 10 spokes is a pretty vague
>A A descriiption--although I admit I'm pretty certain how many
spokes they
>A A have at least. :>)
>
>>
>>A A I am keeping the 10 spokes with PZeros for Street use,
>>A A And one set of the 17" Hall Wheels with 315/235 Kumhos for
>A A A Rally and
>>A A Track use.
>
>>>> Wait--are you talking about Coddington Campagnolo clones, or
Hall
>A A wheels which are three-piece, bolt-together affairs, with a
fake center
>A A spinner?A Those are as different as chalk and cheese (with
the latter
>A A being the only genuinely suspect/dangerous wheels I've ever
>A A encountered).
>
>>A A I will be keeping the Single Slots for Concours with skinny
>A A A Blackwalls
>>A A and a set of Double Slots with Vintage Arrivas for Photos,
>A A A With a spare
>>A A Front and a Spare Rear in case of a boo boo.
>
>>>> Sounds good!
>
>>
>>>A A That leaves 2 full sets of double slot wheels to dispose
of.
>A A A Sell or
>>A A Trade. Photos Available.
>
>>>> Somebody just asked for a set--Guy Dellavecchia?A What kind
are
>A A they?A Guy might want to trade his '71 two-slot wheels for
some L-model
>A A wheels?
>
>>A A I'd love a Triple Slot set. Anybody have some?
>
>>>> I have only ever seen two of them (separately) in my life.A
These
>A A were an experimental wheel used on the first pushmobile
prototype.A I
>A A have no idea how many were put into production but I've never
seen any
>A A other car wearing them, so I would have to imagine the number
is very
>A A small indeed.A Even 1006, the earliest known Pantera extant,
had single
>A A slot wheels.
>A A So don't hold your breath waiting for a full set of three-slot
wheels
>A A to appear. :>)
>
>> I will sort them this week by design, Thanks Mike Drew for the
>A A A Campy
>>A A Wheel education.
>
>>>> It's my pleasure, but at this point I'm far more concerned
about
>A A your aftermarket wheels.A Simply put, I would never wish
three-piece
>A A Hall wheels on my worst enemy, and especially not for track
use.A We
>A A collectively know about multiple failures, which always led to
rapid
>A A deflation and a potential accident.A Jack has often told of
the car
>A A that was zorching down Mt. Charleston in Las Vegas at triple
digit
>A A speeds one year when his Hall wheel dismantled himself; I
believe it
>A A thrust the car into the scenery, but can't remember that
aspect of the
>A A story for sure.A Jack?
>A A Larry Stock had a car on the grass at Concorso that he was
trying to
>A A sell; a rear wheel simply blew apart while the car was parked
(!) and
>A A he had to tow it back to Nevada as it couldn't be fixed--it
had cracked
>A A halfway around.A The other three wheels had similar cracks
when they
>A A were taken apart and inspected.
>A A And Mad Dog's fire was indirectly caused by the failure of his
Hall
>A A wheel; when the left rear wheel failed, the car fell down onto
the
>A A freeway in Los Angeles.A What wasn't seen was that during the
collapse,
>A A the brake line was damaged.A MD swapped his stock wheels
w/race tires
>A A on and ran the Silver State a day or two later, but when he
stepped on
>A A the brakes at the finish line, the line ruptured, fluid
sprayed onto
>A A the exhaust and the rest was history.
>A A And on and on and on...I'm sure there are many others.
>A A Those wheels were a very well-intentioned design but they were
woefully
>A A under-engineered, and today should be related either to a
display case,
>A A or a recycling bin IMHO....
>A A So tell me exactly what kind of wheels you're talking about
here, as
>A A the Coddington wheels (which I have aesthetic problems with,
>A A admittedly) are nothing like these Hall wheels at all.
>
>>>A A Just let a local guy soda blast two of them down to the
green
>A A A primer,
>>A A I'll probably paint them Argent Silver and Clear them just
to
>A A A see the
>>A A final results.
>>A A Photo attached.
>
>>>> Since I didn't get your original e-mail, I didn't get the photo
>A A either....
>A A Cheers!
>A A Mike
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 12:23:56 -0800
> From: "Stephen" <[90]steve at snclocks.com>
> To: <[91]MikeLDrew at aol.com>,A A <[92]gaino at earthlink.net>,A A
<[93]guson at home.se>
> Cc: <[94]detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> Message-ID: <00d501d14e40$54625920$fd270b60$@[95]snclocks.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> When I was going through my brakes I wanted to clean out the
e-brake
> housings and the cables.A So, I cut off the cable ends, took
everything
> apart, took all the old plastic sheath off the housings, replaced
with heavy
> shrink-to-fit, cut the housings to be a better fit with less
excess length,
> lubed with graphite-impregnated grease, then put new ends on the
cables to
> match the length that they needed to be.A Went together very
nicely.
>
>
>
> It would have been pretty much as simple to change length to match
a front
> mounting for the originals, but would have likely required cutting
a pair of
> holes in the sheet metal - I hate extra holes.
>
>
>
> For what all that is worth.
>
>
>
> Stephen Nelson
>
>
>
>
>
> From: [96]MikeLDrew at aol.com [mailto:[97]MikeLDrew at aol.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2016 11:52 AM
> To: [98]gaino at earthlink.net; [99]steve at snclocks.com;
[100]guson at home.se
> Cc: [101]detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
>
>
>
>
> In a message dated 1/13/16 9 15 10, [102]gaino at earthlink.net
> <mailto:[103]gaino at earthlink.net>A writes:
>
>
>
>
>
>A A Is it possible to mount the stock calipers in the front
position to use
>A A as Ebrake?A He already has the Wilwoods installed and saftey
wired on
>A A the rear mounts.
>
>
>
>>>> People who say 'yes' are forgetting about simple mechanics.A
The calipers
> are actuated by cables which are introduced into the rear of the
wheelwell.
> If the calipers are repositioned the cables will no longer fit,
plus if
> longer ones were used, they would foul the driveshafts on their
way forward.
> The only possible way to make a system like that work would be to
reposition
> the cables so they entered the wheelwells ahead of, instead of
behind the
> hub carriers, and there would be a fair bit of engineering
involved.A I
> suppose it might be possible, but it certainly won't be a trivial
exercise.
>
> Mike
>
> -------------- next part --------------
>A A When I was going through my brakes I wanted to clean out the
e-brake
>A A housings and the cables.A So, I cut off the cable ends, took
everything
>A A apart, took all the old plastic sheath off the housings,
replaced with
>A A heavy shrink-to-fit, cut the housings to be a better fit with
less
>A A excess length, lubed with graphite-impregnated grease, then
put new
>A A ends on the cables to match the length that they needed to
be.A Went
>A A together very nicely.
>
>
>A A It would have been pretty much as simple to change length to
match a
>A A front mounting for the originals, but would have likely
required
>A A cutting a pair of holes in the sheet metal - I hate extra
holes...
>
>
>A A For what all that is worth.
>
>
>A A Stephen Nelson
>
>
>
>A A From: [104]MikeLDrew at aol.com [mailto:[105]MikeLDrew at aol.com]
>A A Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2016 11:52 AM
>A A To: [106]gaino at earthlink.net; [107]steve at snclocks.com;
[108]guson at home.se
>A A Cc: [109]detomaso at poca.com
>A A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
>
>
>A A In a message dated 1/13/16 9 15 10,
[1][110]gaino at earthlink.net writes:
>
>A A A A Is it possible to mount the stock calipers in the front
position
>A A A to use
>A A A A as Ebrake?A He already has the Wilwoods installed and
saftey
>A A A wired on
>A A A A the rear mounts.
>
>>>> People who say 'yes' are forgetting about simple mechanics.A
The
>A A calipers are actuated by cables which are introduced into the
rear of
>A A the wheelwell.A If the calipers are repositioned the cables
will no
>A A longer fit, plus if longer ones were used, they would foul the
>A A driveshafts on their way forward.A The only possible way to
make a
>A A system like that work would be to reposition the cables so
they entered
>A A the wheelwells ahead of, instead of behind the hub carriers,
and there
>A A would be a fair bit of engineering involved.A I suppose it
might be
>A A possible, but it certainly won't be a trivial exercise.
>A A Mike
>
> References
>
>A A 1. mailto:[111]gaino at earthlink.net
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 21:07:23 +0000
> From: L GRAY <[112]tipo874a at msn.com>
> To: "[113]MikeLDrew at aol.com" <[114]MikeLDrew at aol.com>
> Cc: "[115]guson at home.se" <[116]guson at home.se>,
"[117]gaino at earthlink.net"
>A A <[118]gaino at earthlink.net>, "[119]detomaso at poca.com"
<[120]detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> Message-ID:
>A A
<[121]BLUPR19MB0163500785FD9792060E49A29DCB0 at BLUPR19MB0163.namprd19.
prod.outlook.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
> Hate to disagree here Mike. The only uprights that were produced
for a Pantera that were right or left handed were "some" of Hall
Pantera's aluminum uprights, and they originally had mounts on front
and rear. For some reason later on in production they were built
without both sets of ears.......... never understood why .......as
you said dumb idea !!
>A A A The Group 4 uprights were manufactured with both sets of
ears. Some of you may not know that the GT 5 and the GT 5-S rear
uprights were taken from the competition Group 4 spares inventory.
>
> Leslie A. Gray
>
>> On Jan 13, 2016, at 12:53 PM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso
<[122]detomaso at poca.com> wrote:
>>
>>A In a message dated 1/13/16 11 28 28, [123]guson at home.se writes:
>>
>>A A Yes Bill, most likely. I have installed calipers on the
front side
>>A A of
>>A A the uprights, the holes were threaded and all. I think I
heard that
>>A A not
>>A A all uprights are drilled front and back but it may be that
only
>>A A newer
>>A A cars that suffer from that.
>>
>>>>> True--the GT5/GT5-S uprights are 'handed' with mounting holes
only
>>A on one side (which, when you think about it, is really dumb
from a
>>A production standpoint).
>>A Mike
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> [124]DeTomaso at poca.com
>> [125]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
etc.) use the links above.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 16:20:31 -0500
> From: Michael Shortt <[126]michaelsavga at gmail.com>
> To: 576103 <[127]MikeLDrew at aol.com>
> Cc: Dave Londry <[128]davel at emspace.com>, "[129]detomaso at poca.com"
>A A <[130]detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Campagnolo Wheels
> Message-ID:
>A A
<CAEWtxWrnqwjnrhKaKWzkxyc4SnmmwfoeAk1gHft7eVUsB=[131]Di5Q at mail.gmail
.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> none of my wheels are assembled ( fasteners) 3 piece wheels, all
are welded
> or billet.
>
> I have driven on the wheels on street, on track and on the Tail of
the
> Dragon and have had zero issues in 12 years with 2 different
designs,
> not sure who mad ethe current wheels ( 10 spoke ), but they show
no signs
> of stress, damage either.
>
> It may be my luck, it could be others bad luck, it could be misuse
and
> driving style.
>
> My Dad owned 3 Audi 5000's, he never had any issues either, maybe
because
> he never pressed the gas instead of the brake.
>
>
> Michael Shortt
>
>> On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 3:19 PM, <[132]MikeLDrew at aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 1/10/16 21 39 38, [133]davel at emspace.com
writes:
>>
>>
>>
>> My 17" Hall wheels are a lot heavier than the mags.
>> I think that's fine for street, but aren't you concerned about
the
>> unsprung weight for track use?
>> dave
>>
>>
>>>>> Interesting.A This was apparently a reply to an original post
by
>> Michael Shortt, but that post never came through to me nor did it
wind up
>> in my spam folder?
>>
>> I'm noting some irregularities with the forum these
days....anyway,
>> thankfully Dave included Michael's original post, so see replies
below:
>>
>>
>>> On 1/08/16 9:17 PM, Michael Shortt wrote:
>>>A A Greetings,
>>>
>>>A A After gathering all my wheels in one place and a brief
inventory
>> today,
>>>A A I have 21 Campy wheels,
>>
>>>>> Uh...that's a lot. :>)
>>
>>
>>
>>>A A 5 Single Slots and a mixture of the 4 Double Slots and Zero
Triple
>>>A A Slots ( No 10") Plus 2 sets of 17" Boyd Coddington Wheels
made for
>> Hall
>>>A A Pantera.
>>
>>
>>>>> Uh, I don't think Coddington every made wheels for Hall?A He
did make
>> them for several other vendors, in several different styles, some
markedly
>> better than others.A Can you share some images perhaps to help
in
>> identification?
>>
>> Hall did have somebody cast up ten-spoke Si-looking wheels that
were
>> welded together, and perhaps Coddington was the source for those?
>>
>>>>A A And the 17" 10 spokes on the car now with 335/35 and
245/40.
>>
>>>>> What kind of wheels are those?A 10 spokes is a pretty vague
>> descriiption--although I admit I'm pretty certain how many spokes
they have
>> at least. :>)
>>
>>>
>>>A A I am keeping the 10 spokes with PZeros for Street use,
>>>A A And one set of the 17" Hall Wheels with 315/235 Kumhos for
Rally and
>>>A A Track use.
>>
>>>>> Wait--are you talking about Coddington Campagnolo clones, or
Hall
>> wheels which are three-piece, bolt-together affairs, with a fake
center
>> spinner?A Those are as different as chalk and cheese (with the
latter being
>> the only genuinely suspect/dangerous wheels I've ever
encountered).
>>
>>
>>>A A I will be keeping the Single Slots for Concours with skinny
>> Blackwalls
>>>A A and a set of Double Slots with Vintage Arrivas for Photos,
With a
>> spare
>>>A A Front and a Spare Rear in case of a boo boo.
>>
>>>>> Sounds good!
>>
>>>
>>>>A A That leaves 2 full sets of double slot wheels to dispose
of. Sell or
>>>A A Trade. Photos Available.
>>
>>>>> Somebody just asked for a set--Guy Dellavecchia?A What kind
are they?
>> Guy might want to trade his '71 two-slot wheels for some L-model
wheels?
>>
>>>A A I'd love a Triple Slot set. Anybody have some?
>>
>>>>> I have only ever seen two of them (separately) in my life.A
These were
>> an experimental wheel used on the first pushmobile prototype.A I
have no
>> idea how many were put into production but I've never seen any
other car
>> wearing them, so I would have to imagine the number is very small
indeed.
>> Even 1006, the earliest known Pantera extant, had single slot
wheels.
>>
>> So don't hold your breath waiting for a full set of three-slot
wheels to
>> appear. :>)
>>
>>> I will sort them this week by design, Thanks Mike Drew for the
Campy
>>>A A Wheel education.
>>
>>>>> It's my pleasure, but at this point I'm far more concerned
about your
>> aftermarket wheels.A Simply put, I would never wish three-piece
Hall wheels
>> on my worst enemy, and especially not for track use.A We
collectively know
>> about multiple failures, which always led to rapid deflation and
a
>> potential accident.A Jack has often told of the car that was
zorching down
>> Mt. Charleston in Las Vegas at triple digit speeds one year when
his Hall
>> wheel dismantled himself; I believe it thrust the car into the
scenery, but
>> can't remember that aspect of the story for sure.A Jack?
>>
>> Larry Stock had a car on the grass at Concorso that he was trying
to sell;
>> a rear wheel simply blew apart while the car was parked (!) and
he had to
>> tow it back to Nevada as it couldn't be fixed--it had cracked
halfway
>> around.A The other three wheels had similar cracks when they
were taken
>> apart and inspected.
>>
>> And Mad Dog's fire was indirectly caused by the failure of his
Hall wheel;
>> when the left rear wheel failed, the car fell down onto the
freeway in Los
>> Angeles.A What wasn't seen was that during the collapse, the
brake line was
>> damaged.A MD swapped his stock wheels w/race tires on and ran
the Silver
>> State a day or two later, but when he stepped on the brakes at
the finish
>> line, the line ruptured, fluid sprayed onto the exhaust and the
rest was
>> history.
>>
>> And on and on and on...I'm sure there are many others.
>>
>> Those wheels were a very well-intentioned design but they were
woefully
>> under-engineered, and today should be related either to a display
case, or
>> a recycling bin IMHO....
>>
>> So tell me exactly what kind of wheels you're talking about here,
as the
>> Coddington wheels (which I have aesthetic problems with,
admittedly) are
>> nothing like these Hall wheels at all.
>>
>>>>A A Just let a local guy soda blast two of them down to the
green
>> primer,
>>>A A I'll probably paint them Argent Silver and Clear them just
to see the
>>>A A final results.
>>>A A Photo attached.
>>
>>>>> Since I didn't get your original e-mail, I didn't get the
photo
>> either....
>>
>> Cheers!
>>
>> Mike
>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Michael L. Shortt
> Savannah, Georgia
> [134]www.michaelshortt.com
> [135]michael at michaelshortt.com
> 912-232-9390
>
>
> This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy
> Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally
> privileged.A If you are not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified
> that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this
> communication is strictly prohibited.A Please reply to the sender
that you
> have received this message in error, then delete it.A Thank you
> -------------- next part --------------
>A A none of my wheels are assembled ( fasteners) 3 piece wheels,
all are
>A A welded or billet.
>A A I have driven on the wheels on street, on track and on the
Tail of the
>A A Dragon and have had zero issues in 12 years with 2 different
designs,
>A A not sure who mad ethe current wheels ( 10 spoke ), but they
show no
>A A signs of stress, damage either.
>A A It may be my luck, it could be others bad luck, it could be
misuse and
>A A driving style.
>A A My Dad owned 3 Audi 5000's, he never had any issues either,
maybe
>A A because he never pressed the gas instead of the brake.
>A A Michael Shortt
>
>A A On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 3:19 PM, <[1][136]MikeLDrew at aol.com>
wrote:
>
>A A A In a message dated 1/10/16 21 39 38,
[2][137]davel at emspace.com writes:
>A A A My 17" Hall wheels are a lot heavier than the mags.
>A A A I think that's fine for street, but aren't you concerned
about the
>A A A unsprung weight for track use?
>A A A dave
>>>> Interesting.AA This was apparently a reply to an original post
by
>A A A Michael Shortt, but that post never came through to me nor
did it
>A A A wind up in my spam folder?
>A A A I'm noting some irregularities with the forum these
days....anyway,
>A A A thankfully Dave included Michael's original post, so see
replies
>A A A below:
>>A A A On 1/08/16 9:17 PM, Michael Shortt wrote:
>> AA A AA Greetings,
>>
>> AA A AA After gathering all my wheels in one place and a brief
>A A A inventory today,
>> AA A AA I have 21 Campy wheels,
>>>> Uh...that's a lot. :>)
>
>> AA A AA 5 Single Slots and a mixture of the 4 Double Slots and
Zero
>A A A Triple
>> AA A AA Slots ( No 10") Plus 2 sets of 17" Boyd Coddington
Wheels
>A A A made for Hall
>> AA A AA Pantera.
>>>> Uh, I don't think Coddington every made wheels for Hall?AA He
did
>A A A make them for several other vendors, in several different
styles,
>A A A some markedly better than others.AA Can you share some
images
>A A A perhaps to help in identification?
>A A A Hall did have somebody cast up ten-spoke Si-looking wheels
that were
>A A A welded together, and perhaps Coddington was the source for
those?
>
>>> AA A AA And the 17" 10 spokes on the car now with 335/35 and
>A A A 245/40.
>>>> What kind of wheels are those?AA 10 spokes is a pretty vague
>A A A descriiption--although I admit I'm pretty certain how many
spokes
>A A A they have at least. :>)
>
>>
>> AA A AA I am keeping the 10 spokes with PZeros for Street use,
>> AA A AA And one set of the 17" Hall Wheels with 315/235 Kumhos
for
>A A A Rally and
>> AA A AA Track use.
>>>> Wait--are you talking about Coddington Campagnolo clones, or
Hall
>A A A wheels which are three-piece, bolt-together affairs, with a
fake
>A A A center spinner?AA Those are as different as chalk and
cheese (with
>A A A the latter being the only genuinely suspect/dangerous
wheels I've
>A A A ever encountered).
>
>> AA A AA I will be keeping the Single Slots for Concours with
skinny
>A A A Blackwalls
>> AA A AA and a set of Double Slots with Vintage Arrivas for
Photos,
>A A A With a spare
>> AA A AA Front and a Spare Rear in case of a boo boo.
>>>> Sounds good!A
>
>>
>>> AA A AA That leaves 2 full sets of double slot wheels to
dispose
>A A A of. Sell or
>> AA A AA Trade. Photos Available.
>>>> Somebody just asked for a set--Guy Dellavecchia?AA What kind
are
>A A A they?AA Guy might want to trade his '71 two-slot wheels
for some
>A A A L-model wheels?
>
>> AA A AA I'd love a Triple Slot set. Anybody have some?
>>>> I have only ever seen two of them (separately) in my life.A
>A A A These were an experimental wheel used on the first
pushmobile
>A A A prototype.AA I have no idea how many were put into
production but
>A A A I've never seen any other car wearing them, so I would have
to
>A A A imagine the number is very small indeed.AA Even 1006, the
earliest
>A A A known Pantera extant, had single slot wheels.
>A A A So don't hold your breath waiting for a full set of
three-slot
>A A A wheels to appear. :>)
>
>> I will sort them this week by design, Thanks Mike Drew for the
>A A A Campy
>> AA A AA Wheel education.
>>>> It's my pleasure, but at this point I'm far more concerned
about
>A A A your aftermarket wheels.AA Simply put, I would never wish
>A A A three-piece Hall wheels on my worst enemy, and especially
not for
>A A A track use.AA We collectively know about multiple failures,
which
>A A A always led to rapid deflation and a potential accident.AA
Jack has
>A A A often told of the car that was zorching down Mt. Charleston
in Las
>A A A Vegas at triple digit speeds one year when his Hall wheel
dismantled
>A A A himself; I believe it thrust the car into the scenery, but
can't
>A A A remember that aspect of the story for sure.AA Jack?
>A A A Larry Stock had a car on the grass at Concorso that he was
trying to
>A A A sell; a rear wheel simply blew apart while the car was
parked (!)
>A A A and he had to tow it back to Nevada as it couldn't be
fixed--it had
>A A A cracked halfway around.AA The other three wheels had
similar cracks
>A A A when they were taken apart and inspected.
>A A A And Mad Dog's fire was indirectly caused by the failure of
his Hall
>A A A wheel; when the left rear wheel failed, the car fell down
onto the
>A A A freeway in Los Angeles.AA What wasn't seen was that during
the
>A A A collapse, the brake line was damaged.AA MD swapped his
stock wheels
>A A A w/race tires on and ran the Silver State a day or two
later, but
>A A A when he stepped on the brakes at the finish line, the line
ruptured,
>A A A fluid sprayed onto the exhaust and the rest was history.
>A A A And on and on and on...I'm sure there are many others.
>A A A Those wheels were a very well-intentioned design but they
were
>A A A woefully under-engineered, and today should be related
either to a
>A A A display case, or a recycling bin IMHO....
>A A A So tell me exactly what kind of wheels you're talking about
here, as
>A A A the Coddington wheels (which I have aesthetic problems
with,
>A A A admittedly) are nothing like these Hall wheels at all.
>>> AA A AA Just let a local guy soda blast two of them down to
the
>A A A green primer,
>> AA A AA I'll probably paint them Argent Silver and Clear them
just
>A A A to see the
>> AA A AA final results.
>> AA A AA Photo attached.
>>
>>>> Since I didn't get your original e-mail, I didn't get the photo
>A A A either....
>A A A Cheers!
>A A A Mike
>
>A A --
>A A Michael L. Shortt
>A A Savannah, Georgia
>A A [3][138]www.michaelshortt.com
>A A [4][139]michael at michaelshortt.com
>A A 912-232-9390
>A A A
>A A This email is protected by the Electronic Communications
Privacy
>A A Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be
legally
>A A privileged.AA If you are not the intended recipient, you are
hereby
>A A notified
>A A that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of
this
>A A communication is strictly prohibited.AA Please reply to the
sender that
>A A you
>A A have received this message in error, then delete it.AA Thank
you
>
> References
>
>A A 1. mailto:[140]MikeLDrew at aol.com
>A A 2. mailto:[141]davel at emspace.com
>A A 3. [142]http://www.michaelshortt.com/
>A A 4. mailto:[143]michael at michaelshortt.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 13:23:36 -0800
> From: "Tomas Gunnarsson" <[144]guson at home.se>
> To: <[145]MikeLDrew at aol.com>
> Cc: <[146]gaino at earthlink.net>,A A <[147]detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> Message-ID: <[148]F6F0EDD7F26440B0970C3CD2C70F6033 at mail2world.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Mike,
>
> Bill originally wrote: Something that that blocks fluid in the
brake
> lines to hold calipers pressed against the rotors.
>
>
> Aka line loc.
>
>
> OEM electric parking brakes work by having an electric motor
actuate the
> brake via a mechanical device, like a wire.
>
>
> Tomas
>
>
>
> <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
>
>A A A A From: Mike Drew via DeTomaso [[149]detomaso at poca.com]
> Sent: 13/1/2016 8:51:53 PM
> To: [150]guson at home.se;[151]gaino at earthlink.net
> Cc: [152]detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
>
>
> In a message dated 1/13/16 8 03 59, [153]guson at home.se writes:
>
>
>> That's simply not a good solution. Doesn't work as an emergency
brake
>> and parking brake function is dubious. If you park your car with
the
>> brakes hot they may release when they cool off.
>
>>>> Tomas, you're talking about a simple line lock. He's asking
about an
> (electrical) solenoid-operated system, which was pioneered by the
OEMs
> and is
> in wide use (and is, significantly, sufficiently effective to
satisfy
> government regulations worldwide). Such systems are now available
in the
> aftermarket.
>
> I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems work
by
> pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple
mechanical
> 'arm' that
> is pulling on a mechanical parking brake? Does anybody know that
for
> sure?
>
> You're correct in asserting that a simple line lock is
insufficient to
> hold
> a car for any length of time; they are designed for very
short-term use
> only. Geoff Peters' Pantera nearly missed (by less than an inch)
> crashing
> into an Aston Martin DB4 when he let a friend borrow it and the
fool
> parked it
> overnight on a slope in neutral with the line lock engaged. As the
> brakes
> cooled at night, they released and the car rolled through a lot
crowded
> with
> collector cars, brushed past the Aston and crashed through a hedge
and
> down
> into a ditch! Fortunately it was unhurt, but it could have been
very bad
> indeed.
>
> A solenoid-type system that actuated the brake hydraulics would be
much
> more effective because it has its own master cylinder that would
still
> hold
> pressure even as the fluid cooled. However, it would not serve as
a
> proper
> emergency brake if there was a hydraulic failure (say, a seal blew
out
> in a
> caliper) whereas a cable-type system that mechanically leverages
the
> components of the caliper requires no hydraulics to work.
>
> Mike (who has had no parking brake at all for the past 30
years...park
> wisely and hope for the best!)
> -------------- next part --------------
>A A Mike,
>
>A A Bill originally wrote: Something that that blocks fluid in the
brake
>A A lines to hold calipers pressed against the rotors.
>
>A A Aka line loc.
>
>A A OEM electric parking brakes work by having an electric motor
actuate
>A A the brake via a mechanical device, like a wire.
>
>A A Tomas
>A A <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
>A A A A From: Mike Drew via DeTomaso [[154]detomaso at poca.com]
>A A Sent: 13/1/2016 8:51:53 PM
>A A To: [155]guson at home.se;[156]gaino at earthlink.net
>A A Cc: [157]detomaso at poca.com
>A A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
>A A In a message dated 1/13/16 8 03 59, [158]guson at home.se writes:
>> That's simply not a good solution. Doesn't work as an emergency
brake
>> and parking brake function is dubious. If you park your car with
the
>> brakes hot they may release when they cool off.
>>
>>>> Tomas, you're talking about a simple line lock. He's asking
about an
>A A (electrical) solenoid-operated system, which was pioneered by
the OEMs
>A A and is
>A A in wide use (and is, significantly, sufficiently effective to
satisfy
>A A government regulations worldwide). Such systems are now
available in
>A A the
>A A aftermarket.
>A A I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems
work by
>A A pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple
mechanical
>A A 'arm' that
>A A is pulling on a mechanical parking brake? Does anybody know
that for
>A A sure?
>A A You're correct in asserting that a simple line lock is
insufficient to
>A A hold
>A A a car for any length of time; they are designed for very
short-term use
>A A only. Geoff Peters' Pantera nearly missed (by less than an
inch)
>A A crashing
>A A into an Aston Martin DB4 when he let a friend borrow it and
the fool
>A A parked it
>A A overnight on a slope in neutral with the line lock engaged. As
the
>A A brakes
>A A cooled at night, they released and the car rolled through a
lot crowded
>A A with
>A A collector cars, brushed past the Aston and crashed through a
hedge and
>A A down
>A A into a ditch! Fortunately it was unhurt, but it could have
been very
>A A bad
>A A indeed.
>A A A solenoid-type system that actuated the brake hydraulics
would be much
>A A more effective because it has its own master cylinder that
would still
>A A hold
>A A pressure even as the fluid cooled. However, it would not serve
as a
>A A proper
>A A emergency brake if there was a hydraulic failure (say, a seal
blew out
>A A in a
>A A caliper) whereas a cable-type system that mechanically
leverages the
>A A components of the caliper requires no hydraulics to work.
>A A Mike (who has had no parking brake at all for the past 30
years...park
>A A wisely and hope for the best!)
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 13:30:22 -0800
> From: Larry Stock <[159]larrys at panteraparts.com>
> To: <[160]MikeLDrew at aol.com>, <[161]davel at emspace.com>,
<[162]detomaso at poca.com>,
>A A <[163]michael at michaelshortt.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Campagnolo Wheels
> Message-ID: <[164]D2BC0041.15C59F%larrys at panteraparts.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;A A charset="ISO-8859-1"
>
> I am taking in a set of 8?s and 10?s X15? Campy?s with new tires
next week
> on a sale and trade I am doing. Since you guys are talking about
these, I
> am going to have a set available in the next week or so.
> E-mail me for more info and details.
> Larrys at PanteraParts.com (1-800-DeTomaso) 800-338-6627
>
>
> On 1/13/16, 12:19 PM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Mike Drew via
DeTomaso"
> <[165]detomaso-bounces at poca.com on behalf of
[166]detomaso at poca.com> wrote:
>
>>A In a message dated 1/10/16 21 39 38, [167]davel at emspace.com
writes:
>>
>>A A My 17" Hall wheels are a lot heavier than the mags.
>>A A I think that's fine for street, but aren't you concerned
about the
>>A A unsprung weight for track use?
>>A A dave
>>
>>>>> Interesting.A This was apparently a reply to an original post
by
>>A Michael Shortt, but that post never came through to me nor did
it wind
>>A up in my spam folder?
>>A I'm noting some irregularities with the forum these
days....anyway,
>>A thankfully Dave included Michael's original post, so see
replies below:
>>
>>>A A On 1/08/16 9:17 PM, Michael Shortt wrote:
>>>A A Greetings,
>>>
>>>A A After gathering all my wheels in one place and a brief
>>A A inventory today,
>>>A A I have 21 Campy wheels,
>>
>>>>> Uh...that's a lot. :>)
>>
>>>A A 5 Single Slots and a mixture of the 4 Double Slots and Zero
>>A A Triple
>>>A A Slots ( No 10") Plus 2 sets of 17" Boyd Coddington Wheels
made
>>A A for Hall
>>>A A Pantera.
>>
>>>>> Uh, I don't think Coddington every made wheels for Hall?A He
did
>>A make them for several other vendors, in several different
styles, some
>>A markedly better than others.A Can you share some images
perhaps to help
>>A in identification?
>>A Hall did have somebody cast up ten-spoke Si-looking wheels that
were
>>A welded together, and perhaps Coddington was the source for
those?
>>
>>>>A A And the 17" 10 spokes on the car now with 335/35 and
245/40.
>>
>>>>> What kind of wheels are those?A 10 spokes is a pretty vague
>>A descriiption--although I admit I'm pretty certain how many
spokes they
>>A have at least. :>)
>>
>>>
>>>A A I am keeping the 10 spokes with PZeros for Street use,
>>>A A And one set of the 17" Hall Wheels with 315/235 Kumhos for
>>A A Rally and
>>>A A Track use.
>>
>>>>> Wait--are you talking about Coddington Campagnolo clones, or
Hall
>>A wheels which are three-piece, bolt-together affairs, with a
fake center
>>A spinner?A Those are as different as chalk and cheese (with the
latter
>>A being the only genuinely suspect/dangerous wheels I've ever
>>A encountered).
>>
>>>A A I will be keeping the Single Slots for Concours with skinny
>>A A Blackwalls
>>>A A and a set of Double Slots with Vintage Arrivas for Photos,
>>A A With a spare
>>>A A Front and a Spare Rear in case of a boo boo.
>>
>>>>> Sounds good!
>>
>>>
>>>>A A That leaves 2 full sets of double slot wheels to dispose
of.
>>A A Sell or
>>>A A Trade. Photos Available.
>>
>>>>> Somebody just asked for a set--Guy Dellavecchia?A What kind
are
>>A they?A Guy might want to trade his '71 two-slot wheels for
some L-model
>>A wheels?
>>
>>>A A I'd love a Triple Slot set. Anybody have some?
>>
>>>>> I have only ever seen two of them (separately) in my life.A
These
>>A were an experimental wheel used on the first pushmobile
prototype.A I
>>A have no idea how many were put into production but I've never
seen any
>>A other car wearing them, so I would have to imagine the number
is very
>>A small indeed.A Even 1006, the earliest known Pantera extant,
had single
>>A slot wheels.
>>A So don't hold your breath waiting for a full set of three-slot
wheels
>>A to appear. :>)
>>
>>> I will sort them this week by design, Thanks Mike Drew for the
>>A A Campy
>>>A A Wheel education.
>>
>>>>> It's my pleasure, but at this point I'm far more concerned
about
>>A your aftermarket wheels.A Simply put, I would never wish
three-piece
>>A Hall wheels on my worst enemy, and especially not for track
use.A We
>>A collectively know about multiple failures, which always led to
rapid
>>A deflation and a potential accident.A Jack has often told of
the car
>>A that was zorching down Mt. Charleston in Las Vegas at triple
digit
>>A speeds one year when his Hall wheel dismantled himself; I
believe it
>>A thrust the car into the scenery, but can't remember that aspect
of the
>>A story for sure.A Jack?
>>A Larry Stock had a car on the grass at Concorso that he was
trying to
>>A sell; a rear wheel simply blew apart while the car was parked
(!) and
>>A he had to tow it back to Nevada as it couldn't be fixed--it had
cracked
>>A halfway around.A The other three wheels had similar cracks
when they
>>A were taken apart and inspected.
>>A And Mad Dog's fire was indirectly caused by the failure of his
Hall
>>A wheel; when the left rear wheel failed, the car fell down onto
the
>>A freeway in Los Angeles.A What wasn't seen was that during the
collapse,
>>A the brake line was damaged.A MD swapped his stock wheels
w/race tires
>>A on and ran the Silver State a day or two later, but when he
stepped on
>>A the brakes at the finish line, the line ruptured, fluid sprayed
onto
>>A the exhaust and the rest was history.
>>A And on and on and on...I'm sure there are many others.
>>A Those wheels were a very well-intentioned design but they were
woefully
>>A under-engineered, and today should be related either to a
display case,
>>A or a recycling bin IMHO....
>>A So tell me exactly what kind of wheels you're talking about
here, as
>>A the Coddington wheels (which I have aesthetic problems with,
>>A admittedly) are nothing like these Hall wheels at all.
>>
>>>>A A Just let a local guy soda blast two of them down to the
green
>>A A primer,
>>>A A I'll probably paint them Argent Silver and Clear them just
to
>>A A see the
>>>A A final results.
>>>A A Photo attached.
>>
>>>>> Since I didn't get your original e-mail, I didn't get the
photo
>>A either....
>>A Cheers!
>>A Mike
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> [168]DeTomaso at poca.com
>> [169]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
etc.) use
>> the links above.
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 22:53:34 +0100
> From: Charles McCall <[170]charlesmccall at gmail.com>
> To: <[171]MikeLDrew at aol.com>, <[172]guson at home.se>,
<[173]gaino at earthlink.net>,
>A A <[174]detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> Message-ID: <00fd01d14e4c$dac3a170$904ae450$@[175]gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;A A charset="us-ascii"
>
> I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems work
by
> pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple
mechanical 'arm'
> that
> is pulling on a mechanical parking brake?A A Does anybody know
that for sure?
> ****Audis use a mechanical parking brake actuated by a solenoid -
the second
> case. They do not pressurize the fluid in the line. They have some
> electronics to ease the brake on if you are moving, but actuating
it at any
> speed locks up your brakes. They are either on or off.
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 14:02:11 -0800
> From: "Tomas Gunnarsson" <[176]guson at home.se>
> To: <[177]charlesmccall at gmail.com>
> Cc: <[178]detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> Message-ID: <[179]72F2415F8F0A41A0BC5857747006BB5D at mail2world.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> It is more likely a linear actuator driven by a motor. A solenoid
would
> not be good as it would need to draw current for the whole time
the
> brakes are on. You can probably hear the motor whine when you flip
the
> switch (or whatever) and then it goes silent when the brakes are
on/off.
> Where there's legislation requiring a parking brake it's usually
also a
> requirement that it's mechanically actuated, hydraulics are not
allowed.
>
> Tomas
>
>
>
> <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
>
>A A A A From: Charles McCall [[180]charlesmccall at gmail.com]
> Sent: 13/1/2016 10:53:34 PM
> To:
>
[181]MikeLDrew at aol.com;[182]guson at home.se;[183]gaino at earthlink.net;[
184]detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
>
> I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems work
by
> pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple
mechanical
> 'arm'
> that
> is pulling on a mechanical parking brake? Does anybody know that
for
> sure?
> ****Audis use a mechanical parking brake actuated by a solenoid -
the
> second
> case. They do not pressurize the fluid in the line. They have some
> electronics to ease the brake on if you are moving, but actuating
it at
> any
> speed locks up your brakes. They are either on or off.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [185]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [186]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
etc.)
> use the links above.
> .
>
> -------------- next part --------------
>A A It is more likely a linear actuator driven by a motor. A
solenoid would
>A A not be good as it would need to draw current for the whole
time the
>A A brakes are on. You can probably hear the motor whine when you
flip the
>A A switch (or whatever) and then it goes silent when the brakes
are
>A A on/off. Where there's legislation requiring a parking brake
it's
>A A usually also a requirement that it's mechanically actuated,
hydraulics
>A A are not allowed.
>
>A A Tomas
>A A <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
>A A A A From: Charles McCall [[187]charlesmccall at gmail.com]
>A A Sent: 13/1/2016 10:53:34 PM
>A A To:
>A
A [188]MikeLDrew at aol.com;[189]guson at home.se;[190]gaino at earthlink.net
;[191]detomaso at poca.com
>A A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
>A A I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems
work by
>A A pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple
mechanical
>A A 'arm'
>A A that
>A A is pulling on a mechanical parking brake? Does anybody know
that for
>A A sure?
>A A ****Audis use a mechanical parking brake actuated by a
solenoid - the
>A A second
>A A case. They do not pressurize the fluid in the line. They have
some
>A A electronics to ease the brake on if you are moving, but
actuating it at
>A A any
>A A speed locks up your brakes. They are either on or off.
>A A _______________________________________________
>A A Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>A A Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>A A DeTomaso mailing list
>A A [192]DeTomaso at poca.com
>A A [193]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>A A To manage your subscription (change email address,
unsubscribe, etc.)
>A A use the links above.
>A A .
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 23:04:27 +0100
> From: Charles McCall <[194]charlesmccall at gmail.com>
> To: "'Tomas Gunnarsson'" <[195]guson at home.se>
> Cc: <[196]detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> Message-ID: <010701d14e4e$5fc90440$1f5b0cc0$@[197]gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Sorry, you are correct that it is a linear actuator. I answered
quickly. In
> any case, it is a mechanical actuator and not pressurizing the
hydraulic
> line.
>
>
>
> From: Tomas Gunnarsson [mailto:[198]guson at home.se]
> Sent: mi?rcoles, 13 de enero de 2016 23:02
> To: [199]charlesmccall at gmail.com
> Cc: [200]detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
>
>
>
> It is more likely a linear actuator driven by a motor. A solenoid
would not
> be good as it would need to draw current for the whole time the
brakes are
> on. You can probably hear the motor whine when you flip the switch
(or
> whatever) and then it goes silent when the brakes are on/off.
Where there's
> legislation requiring a parking brake it's usually also a
requirement that
> it's mechanically actuated, hydraulics are not allowed.
>
>
>
> Tomas
>
>
>
> <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Charles McCall [[201]charlesmccall at gmail.com]
> Sent: 13/1/2016 10:53:34 PM
> To:
[202]MikeLDrew at aol.com;[203]guson at home.se;[204]gaino at earthlink.net;[
205]detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
>
> I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems work
by
> pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple
mechanical 'arm'
>
> that
> is pulling on a mechanical parking brake? Does anybody know that
for sure?
> ****Audis use a mechanical parking brake actuated by a solenoid -
the second
>
> case. They do not pressurize the fluid in the line. They have some
> electronics to ease the brake on if you are moving, but actuating
it at any
> speed locks up your brakes. They are either on or off.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [206]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [207]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
etc.) use
> the links above.
> .
>
>
>
> -------------- next part --------------
>A A Sorry, you are correct that it is a linear actuator. I
answered
>A A quickly. In any case, it is a mechanical actuator and not
pressurizing
>A A the hydraulic line.
>
>
>A A From: Tomas Gunnarsson [mailto:[208]guson at home.se]
>A A Sent: miercoles, 13 de enero de 2016 23:02
>A A To: [209]charlesmccall at gmail.com
>A A Cc: [210]detomaso at poca.com
>A A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
>
>
>A A It is more likely a linear actuator driven by a motor. A
solenoid would
>A A not be good as it would need to draw current for the whole
time the
>A A brakes are on. You can probably hear the motor whine when you
flip the
>A A switch (or whatever) and then it goes silent when the brakes
are
>A A on/off. Where there's legislation requiring a parking brake
it's
>A A usually also a requirement that it's mechanically actuated,
hydraulics
>A A are not allowed.
>
>
>A A Tomas
>
>A A <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
>
>
>
>A A From: Charles McCall [[211]charlesmccall at gmail.com]
>A A Sent: 13/1/2016 10:53:34 PM
>A A To:
>A
A [1][212]MikeLDrew at aol.com;[213]guson at home.se;[214]gaino at earthlink.
net;[215]detomaso at poca.co
>A A m
>A A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
>A A I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems
work by
>A A pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple
mechanical
>A A 'arm'
>A A that
>A A is pulling on a mechanical parking brake? Does anybody know
that for
>A A sure?
>A A ****Audis use a mechanical parking brake actuated by a
solenoid - the
>A A second
>A A case. They do not pressurize the fluid in the line. They have
some
>A A electronics to ease the brake on if you are moving, but
actuating it at
>A A any
>A A speed locks up your brakes. They are either on or off.
>A A _______________________________________________
>A A Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>A A Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>A A DeTomaso mailing list
>A A [2][216]DeTomaso at poca.com
>A A [3][217]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>A A To manage your subscription (change email address,
unsubscribe, etc.)
>A A use the links above.
>A A .
>
> References
>
>A A 1.
mailto:[218]MikeLDrew at aol.com;[219]guson at home.se;[220]gaino at earthlin
k.net;[221]detomaso at poca.com
>A A 2. mailto:[222]DeTomaso at poca.com
>A A 3. [223]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 23:09:38 +0100
> From: Thomas Tornblom <[224]thomas at hax.se>
> To: [225]detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] parking brakes
> Message-ID: <[226]5696CB22.5070902 at hax.se>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>
> I believe VW electric parking brake have an electric motor
directly on
> the caliper, no cables.
>
>
> Den 2016-01-13 22:53, Charles McCall skrev:
>> I confess I don't know if OEM electric parking brake systems work
by
>> pressurizing the fluid in the line, or if they are a simple
mechanical 'arm'
>> that
>> is pulling on a mechanical parking brake?A A Does anybody know
that for sure?
>> ****Audis use a mechanical parking brake actuated by a solenoid -
the second
>> case. They do not pressurize the fluid in the line. They have
some
>> electronics to ease the brake on if you are moving, but actuating
it at any
>> speed locks up your brakes. They are either on or off.
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> [227]DeTomaso at poca.com
>> [228]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
etc.) use the links above.
>>
>> !DSPAM:5696c7e73519021468!
>
>
> --
> Real life:A A Thomas T?rnblomA A A A A A A Email:A A A
A [229]thomas at hax.se
> Snail mail:A Banvallsv?gen 14A A A A A A Phone:A A +46 18
32 31 18
>A A A A A A A S - 754 40 Uppsala, SwedenA Mobile:A A +46
76 209 8320
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 22:15:16 +0000 (UTC)
> From: marshall smith <[230]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
> To: <[231]davel at emspace.com>, <[232]detomaso at poca.com>,
>A A <[233]michael at michaelshortt.com>,A A
<[234]MikeLDrew at aol.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Campagnolo Wheels
> Message-ID:
>A A
<[235]621399975.3851038.1452723316243.JavaMail.yahoo at mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> FYI....
>
> I have 17 inch Hall 10 spoke wheels. They have welded centers and
came with a center hub that had a dummy spinner and cone that
covered the lug nuts or you could delete the cone and go with
exposed lug nuts.
> I was told that Boyd made these. Hall called them Mark 10s as I
recall.
>
> Marshall
> --------------------------------------------
> On Wed, 1/13/16, Mike Drew via DeTomaso <[236]detomaso at poca.com>
wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Campagnolo Wheels
> To: [237]davel at emspace.com, [238]detomaso at poca.com,
[239]michael at michaelshortt.com
> Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2016, 12:19 PM
>
> ???In a message dated
> 1/10/16 21 39 38, [240]davel at emspace.com
> writes:
>
> ? ???My 17" Hall wheels are a lot
> heavier than the mags.
> ? ???I think that's fine for street, but
> aren't you concerned about the
> ? ???unsprung weight for track use?
> ? ???dave
>
> ???>>>Interesting.? This was
> apparently a reply to an original post by
> ???Michael Shortt, but that post never came
> through to me nor did it wind
> ???up in my spam folder?
> ???I'm noting some irregularities with the
> forum these days....anyway,
> ???thankfully Dave included Michael's
> original post, so see replies below:
>
> ? ???On 1/08/16 9:17 PM, Michael Shortt
> wrote:
> ? ???>?
> ???Greetings,
> ? ???>
> ? ???>? ???After
> gathering all my wheels in one place and a brief
> ? ???inventory today,
> ? ???>? ???I have
> 21 Campy wheels,
>
> ???>>>Uh...that's a lot. :>)
>
> ? ???>? ???5
> Single Slots and a mixture of the 4 Double Slots and Zero
> ? ???Triple
> ? ???>? ???Slots
> ( No 10") Plus 2 sets of 17" Boyd Coddington Wheels made
> ? ???for Hall
> ? ???>?
> ???Pantera.
>
> ???>>>Uh, I don't think Coddington
> every made wheels for Hall?? He did
> ???make them for several other vendors, in
> several different styles, some
> ???markedly better than others.? Can you
> share some images perhaps to help
> ???in identification?
> ???Hall did have somebody cast up ten-spoke
> Si-looking wheels that were
> ???welded together, and perhaps Coddington
> was the source for those?
>
> ? ???>>?
> ???And the 17" 10 spokes on the car now with
> 335/35 and 245/40.
>
> ???>>>What kind of wheels are
> those?? 10 spokes is a pretty vague
> ???descriiption--although I admit I'm pretty
> certain how many spokes they
> ???have at least. :>)
>
> ? ???>
> ? ???>? ???I am
> keeping the 10 spokes with PZeros for Street use,
> ? ???>? ???And
> one set of the 17" Hall Wheels with 315/235 Kumhos for
> ? ???Rally and
> ? ???>? ???Track
> use.
>
> ???>>>Wait--are you talking about
> Coddington Campagnolo clones, or Hall
> ???wheels which are three-piece,
> bolt-together affairs, with a fake center
> ???spinner?? Those are as different as
> chalk and cheese (with the latter
> ???being the only genuinely suspect/dangerous
> wheels I've ever
> ???encountered).
>
> ? ???>? ???I will
> be keeping the Single Slots for Concours with skinny
> ? ???Blackwalls
> ? ???>? ???and a
> set of Double Slots with Vintage Arrivas for Photos,
> ? ???With a spare
> ? ???>? ???Front
> and a Spare Rear in case of a boo boo.
>
> ???>>>Sounds good!
>
> ? ???>
> ? ???>>?
> ???That leaves 2 full sets of double slot
> wheels to dispose of.
> ? ???Sell or
> ? ???>? ???Trade.
> Photos Available.
>
> ???>>>Somebody just asked for a
> set--Guy Dellavecchia?? What kind are
> ???they?? Guy might want to trade his
> '71 two-slot wheels for some L-model
> ???wheels?
>
> ? ???>? ???I'd
> love a Triple Slot set. Anybody have some?
>
> ???>>>I have only ever seen two of
> them (separately) in my life.? These
> ???were an experimental wheel used on the
> first pushmobile prototype.? I
> ???have no idea how many were put into
> production but I've never seen any
> ???other car wearing them, so I would have to
> imagine the number is very
> ???small indeed.? Even 1006, the
> earliest known Pantera extant, had single
> ???slot wheels.
> ???So don't hold your breath waiting for a
> full set of three-slot wheels
> ???to appear. :>)
>
> ? ???>I will sort them this week by
> design, Thanks Mike Drew for the
> ? ???Campy
> ? ???>? ???Wheel
> education.
>
> ???>>>It's my pleasure, but at this
> point I'm far more concerned about
> ???your aftermarket wheels.? Simply put,
> I would never wish three-piece
> ???Hall wheels on my worst enemy, and
> especially not for track use.? We
> ???collectively know about multiple failures,
> which always led to rapid
> ???deflation and a potential accident.?
> Jack has often told of the car
> ???that was zorching down Mt. Charleston in
> Las Vegas at triple digit
> ???speeds one year when his Hall wheel
> dismantled himself; I believe it
> ???thrust the car into the scenery, but can't
> remember that aspect of the
> ???story for sure.? Jack?
> ???Larry Stock had a car on the grass at
> Concorso that he was trying to
> ???sell; a rear wheel simply blew apart while
> the car was parked (!) and
> ???he had to tow it back to Nevada as it
> couldn't be fixed--it had cracked
> ???halfway around.? The other three
> wheels had similar cracks when they
> ???were taken apart and inspected.
> ???And Mad Dog's fire was indirectly caused
> by the failure of his Hall
> ???wheel; when the left rear wheel failed,
> the car fell down onto the
> ???freeway in Los Angeles.? What wasn't
> seen was that during the collapse,
> ???the brake line was damaged.? MD
> swapped his stock wheels w/race tires
> ???on and ran the Silver State a day or two
> later, but when he stepped on
> ???the brakes at the finish line, the line
> ruptured, fluid sprayed onto
> ???the exhaust and the rest was history.
> ???And on and on and on...I'm sure there are
> many others.
> ???Those wheels were a very well-intentioned
> design but they were woefully
> ???under-engineered, and today should be
> related either to a display case,
> ???or a recycling bin IMHO....
> ???So tell me exactly what kind of wheels
> you're talking about here, as
> ???the Coddington wheels (which I have
> aesthetic problems with,
> ???admittedly) are nothing like these Hall
> wheels at all.
>
> ? ???>>?
> ???Just let a local guy soda blast two of
> them down to the green
> ? ???primer,
> ? ???>? ???I'll
> probably paint them Argent Silver and Clear them just to
> ? ???see the
> ? ???>? ???final
> results.
> ? ???>? ???Photo
> attached.
> ? ???>
>
> ???>>>Since I didn't get your
> original e-mail, I didn't get the photo
> ???either....
> ???Cheers!
> ???Mike
>
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [241]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [242]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address,
> unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 22:24:18 +0000 (UTC)
> From: marshall smith <[243]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
> To: <[244]davel at emspace.com>, <[245]detomaso at poca.com>,
>A A <[246]michael at michaelshortt.com>,A A
<[247]MikeLDrew at aol.com>, marshall smith
>A A <[248]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Campagnolo Wheels
> Message-ID:
>A A
<[249]1003982879.3795306.1452723858144.JavaMail.yahoo at mail.yahoo.com
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Additionally....Hall's 10 spoke wheels have the spokes slanted
slightly inboard or towards the suspension. I believe Wilkinson made
a 10 spoke wheel where the spokes slant outward. These are visually
better looking givingA a semi dished look and have slightly rounded
spokes where the Hall's have sharp edged spokes.
>
> M
> --------------------------------------------
> On Wed, 1/13/16, marshall smith
<[250]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Campagnolo Wheels
> To: [251]davel at emspace.com, [252]detomaso at poca.com,
[253]michael at michaelshortt.com, [254]MikeLDrew at aol.com
> Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2016, 2:15 PM
>
> FYI....
>
> I have 17 inch Hall 10 spoke wheels. They have welded
> centers and came with a center hub that had a dummy spinner
> and cone that covered the lug nuts or you could delete the
> cone and go with exposed lug nuts.
> I was told that Boyd made these. Hall called them Mark 10s
> as I recall.
>
> Marshall
> --------------------------------------------
> On Wed, 1/13/16, Mike Drew via DeTomaso <[255]detomaso at poca.com>
> wrote:
>
>A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Campagnolo Wheels
>A To: [256]davel at emspace.com,
> [257]detomaso at poca.com,
> [258]michael at michaelshortt.com
>A Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2016, 12:19 PM
>
>A ???In a message dated
>A 1/10/16 21 39 38, [259]davel at emspace.com
>A writes:
>
>A ? ???My 17" Hall wheels are a lot
>A heavier than the mags.
>A ? ???I think that's fine for street, but
>A aren't you concerned about the
>A ? ???unsprung weight for track use?
>A ? ???dave
>
>A ???>>>Interesting.? This was
>A apparently a reply to an original post by
>A ???Michael Shortt, but that post never came
>A through to me nor did it wind
>A ???up in my spam folder?
>A ???I'm noting some irregularities with the
>A forum these days....anyway,
>A ???thankfully Dave included Michael's
>A original post, so see replies below:
>
>A ? ???On 1/08/16 9:17 PM, Michael Shortt
>A wrote:
>A ? ???>?
>A ???Greetings,
>A ? ???>
>A ? ???>? ???After
>A gathering all my wheels in one place and a brief
>A ? ???inventory today,
>A ? ???>? ???I have
>A 21 Campy wheels,
>
>A ???>>>Uh...that's a lot. :>)
>
>A ? ???>? ???5
>A Single Slots and a mixture of the 4 Double Slots and Zero
>A ? ???Triple
>A ? ???>? ???Slots
>A ( No 10") Plus 2 sets of 17" Boyd Coddington Wheels made
>A ? ???for Hall
>A ? ???>?
>A ???Pantera.
>
>A ???>>>Uh, I don't think Coddington
>A every made wheels for Hall?? He did
>A ???make them for several other vendors, in
>A several different styles, some
>A ???markedly better than others.? Can you
>A share some images perhaps to help
>A ???in identification?
>A ???Hall did have somebody cast up ten-spoke
>A Si-looking wheels that were
>A ???welded together, and perhaps Coddington
>A was the source for those?
>
>A ? ???>>?
>A ???And the 17" 10 spokes on the car now with
>A 335/35 and 245/40.
>
>A ???>>>What kind of wheels are
>A those?? 10 spokes is a pretty vague
>A ???descriiption--although I admit I'm pretty
>A certain how many spokes they
>A ???have at least. :>)
>
>A ? ???>
>A ? ???>? ???I am
>A keeping the 10 spokes with PZeros for Street use,
>A ? ???>? ???And
>A one set of the 17" Hall Wheels with 315/235 Kumhos for
>A ? ???Rally and
>A ? ???>? ???Track
>A use.
>
>A ???>>>Wait--are you talking about
>A Coddington Campagnolo clones, or Hall
>A ???wheels which are three-piece,
>A bolt-together affairs, with a fake center
>A ???spinner?? Those are as different as
>A chalk and cheese (with the latter
>A ???being the only genuinely suspect/dangerous
>A wheels I've ever
>A ???encountered).
>
>A ? ???>? ???I will
>A be keeping the Single Slots for Concours with skinny
>A ? ???Blackwalls
>A ? ???>? ???and a
>A set of Double Slots with Vintage Arrivas for Photos,
>A ? ???With a spare
>A ? ???>? ???Front
>A and a Spare Rear in case of a boo boo.
>
>A ???>>>Sounds good!
>
>A ? ???>
>A ? ???>>?
>A ???That leaves 2 full sets of double slot
>A wheels to dispose of.
>A ? ???Sell or
>A ? ???>? ???Trade.
>A Photos Available.
>
>A ???>>>Somebody just asked for a
>A set--Guy Dellavecchia?? What kind are
>A ???they?? Guy might want to trade his
>A '71 two-slot wheels for some L-model
>A ???wheels?
>
>A ? ???>? ???I'd
>A love a Triple Slot set. Anybody have some?
>
>A ???>>>I have only ever seen two of
>A them (separately) in my life.? These
>A ???were an experimental wheel used on the
>A first pushmobile prototype.? I
>A ???have no idea how many were put into
>A production but I've never seen any
>A ???other car wearing them, so I would have to
>A imagine the number is very
>A ???small indeed.? Even 1006, the
>A earliest known Pantera extant, had single
>A ???slot wheels.
>A ???So don't hold your breath waiting for a
>A full set of three-slot wheels
>A ???to appear. :>)
>
>A ? ???>I will sort them this week by
>A design, Thanks Mike Drew for the
>A ? ???Campy
>A ? ???>? ???Wheel
>A education.
>
>A ???>>>It's my pleasure, but at this
>A point I'm far more concerned about
>A ???your aftermarket wheels.? Simply put,
>A I would never wish three-piece
>A ???Hall wheels on my worst enemy, and
>A especially not for track use.? We
>A ???collectively know about multiple failures,
>A which always led to rapid
>A ???deflation and a potential accident.?
>A Jack has often told of the car
>A ???that was zorching down Mt. Charleston in
>A Las Vegas at triple digit
>A ???speeds one year when his Hall wheel
>A dismantled himself; I believe it
>A ???thrust the car into the scenery, but can't
>A remember that aspect of the
>A ???story for sure.? Jack?
>A ???Larry Stock had a car on the grass at
>A Concorso that he was trying to
>A ???sell; a rear wheel simply blew apart while
>A the car was parked (!) and
>A ???he had to tow it back to Nevada as it
>A couldn't be fixed--it had cracked
>A ???halfway around.? The other three
>A wheels had similar cracks when they
>A ???were taken apart and inspected.
>A ???And Mad Dog's fire was indirectly caused
>A by the failure of his Hall
>A ???wheel; when the left rear wheel failed,
>A the car fell down onto the
>A ???freeway in Los Angeles.? What wasn't
>A seen was that during the collapse,
>A ???the brake line was damaged.? MD
>A swapped his stock wheels w/race tires
>A ???on and ran the Silver State a day or two
>A later, but when he stepped on
>A ???the brakes at the finish line, the line
>A ruptured, fluid sprayed onto
>A ???the exhaust and the rest was history.
>A ???And on and on and on...I'm sure there are
>A many others.
>A ???Those wheels were a very well-intentioned
>A design but they were woefully
>A ???under-engineered, and today should be
>A related either to a display case,
>A ???or a recycling bin IMHO....
>A ???So tell me exactly what kind of wheels
>A you're talking about here, as
>A ???the Coddington wheels (which I have
>A aesthetic problems with,
>A ???admittedly) are nothing like these Hall
>A wheels at all.
>
>A ? ???>>?
>A ???Just let a local guy soda blast two of
>A them down to the green
>A ? ???primer,
>A ? ???>? ???I'll
>A probably paint them Argent Silver and Clear them just to
>A ? ???see the
>A ? ???>? ???final
>A results.
>A ? ???>? ???Photo
>A attached.
>A ? ???>
>
>A ???>>>Since I didn't get your
>A original e-mail, I didn't get the photo
>A ???either....
>A ???Cheers!
>A ???Mike
>
>A -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
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>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 17
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 17:44:23 -0500
> From: Michael Shortt <[264]michaelsavga at gmail.com>
> To: marshall smith <[265]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>,
[266]detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Campagnolo Wheels
> Message-ID:
>A A
<[267]CAEWtxWoBoP_w8V4hEH2fJDsmEVnwB4ueWkX8rJqC7R-FWTFj0A at mail.gmail
.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Marshall,
>
> I have those too, considered having them Powdercoated, but the
center
> treatment would look silly. I have both the spinners and the big
black
> lugs. The other set is the 5 spoke from Hall/Boyd.
>
> Michael Shortt
> On Jan 13, 2016 5:15 PM, "marshall smith"
<[268]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
>
>> FYI....
>>
>> I have 17 inch Hall 10 spoke wheels. They have welded centers and
came
>> with a center hub that had a dummy spinner and cone that covered
the lug
>> nuts or you could delete the cone and go with exposed lug nuts.
>> I was told that Boyd made these. Hall called them Mark 10s as I
recall.
>>
>> Marshall
>> --------------------------------------------
>> On Wed, 1/13/16, Mike Drew via DeTomaso <[269]detomaso at poca.com>
wrote:
>>
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Campagnolo Wheels
>> To: [270]davel at emspace.com, [271]detomaso at poca.com,
[272]michael at michaelshortt.com
>> Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2016, 12:19 PM
>>
>>A A In a message dated
>> 1/10/16 21 39 38, [273]davel at emspace.com
>> writes:
>>
>>A A A My 17" Hall wheels are a lot
>> heavier than the mags.
>>A A A I think that's fine for street, but
>> aren't you concerned about the
>>A A A unsprung weight for track use?
>>A A A dave
>>
>>>>> Interesting.A This was
>> apparently a reply to an original post by
>>A A Michael Shortt, but that post never came
>> through to me nor did it wind
>>A A up in my spam folder?
>>A A I'm noting some irregularities with the
>> forum these days....anyway,
>>A A thankfully Dave included Michael's
>> original post, so see replies below:
>>
>>A A A On 1/08/16 9:17 PM, Michael Shortt
>> wrote:
>>A A Greetings,
>>>
>>>A A After
>> gathering all my wheels in one place and a brief
>>A A A inventory today,
>>>A A I have
>> 21 Campy wheels,
>>
>>>>> Uh...that's a lot. :>)
>>
>>>A A 5
>> Single Slots and a mixture of the 4 Double Slots and Zero
>>A A A Triple
>>>A A Slots
>> ( No 10") Plus 2 sets of 17" Boyd Coddington Wheels made
>>A A A for Hall
>>A A Pantera.
>>
>>>>> Uh, I don't think Coddington
>> every made wheels for Hall?A He did
>>A A make them for several other vendors, in
>> several different styles, some
>>A A markedly better than others.A Can you
>> share some images perhaps to help
>>A A in identification?
>>A A Hall did have somebody cast up ten-spoke
>> Si-looking wheels that were
>>A A welded together, and perhaps Coddington
>> was the source for those?
>>
>>A A And the 17" 10 spokes on the car now with
>> 335/35 and 245/40.
>>
>>>>> What kind of wheels are
>> those?A 10 spokes is a pretty vague
>>A A descriiption--although I admit I'm pretty
>> certain how many spokes they
>>A A have at least. :>)
>>
>>>
>>>A A I am
>> keeping the 10 spokes with PZeros for Street use,
>>>A A And
>> one set of the 17" Hall Wheels with 315/235 Kumhos for
>>A A A Rally and
>>>A A Track
>> use.
>>
>>>>> Wait--are you talking about
>> Coddington Campagnolo clones, or Hall
>>A A wheels which are three-piece,
>> bolt-together affairs, with a fake center
>>A A spinner?A Those are as different as
>> chalk and cheese (with the latter
>>A A being the only genuinely suspect/dangerous
>> wheels I've ever
>>A A encountered).
>>
>>>A A I will
>> be keeping the Single Slots for Concours with skinny
>>A A A Blackwalls
>>>A A and a
>> set of Double Slots with Vintage Arrivas for Photos,
>>A A A With a spare
>>>A A Front
>> and a Spare Rear in case of a boo boo.
>>
>>>>> Sounds good!
>>
>>>
>>A A That leaves 2 full sets of double slot
>> wheels to dispose of.
>>A A A Sell or
>>>A A Trade.
>> Photos Available.
>>
>>>>> Somebody just asked for a
>> set--Guy Dellavecchia?A What kind are
>>A A they?A Guy might want to trade his
>> '71 two-slot wheels for some L-model
>>A A wheels?
>>
>>>A A I'd
>> love a Triple Slot set. Anybody have some?
>>
>>>>> I have only ever seen two of
>> them (separately) in my life.A These
>>A A were an experimental wheel used on the
>> first pushmobile prototype.A I
>>A A have no idea how many were put into
>> production but I've never seen any
>>A A other car wearing them, so I would have to
>> imagine the number is very
>>A A small indeed.A Even 1006, the
>> earliest known Pantera extant, had single
>>A A slot wheels.
>>A A So don't hold your breath waiting for a
>> full set of three-slot wheels
>>A A to appear. :>)
>>
>>> I will sort them this week by
>> design, Thanks Mike Drew for the
>>A A A Campy
>>>A A Wheel
>> education.
>>
>>>>> It's my pleasure, but at this
>> point I'm far more concerned about
>>A A your aftermarket wheels.A Simply put,
>> I would never wish three-piece
>>A A Hall wheels on my worst enemy, and
>> especially not for track use.A We
>>A A collectively know about multiple failures,
>> which always led to rapid
>>A A deflation and a potential accident.
>> Jack has often told of the car
>>A A that was zorching down Mt. Charleston in
>> Las Vegas at triple digit
>>A A speeds one year when his Hall wheel
>> dismantled himself; I believe it
>>A A thrust the car into the scenery, but can't
>> remember that aspect of the
>>A A story for sure.A Jack?
>>A A Larry Stock had a car on the grass at
>> Concorso that he was trying to
>>A A sell; a rear wheel simply blew apart while
>> the car was parked (!) and
>>A A he had to tow it back to Nevada as it
>> couldn't be fixed--it had cracked
>>A A halfway around.A The other three
>> wheels had similar cracks when they
>>A A were taken apart and inspected.
>>A A And Mad Dog's fire was indirectly caused
>> by the failure of his Hall
>>A A wheel; when the left rear wheel failed,
>> the car fell down onto the
>>A A freeway in Los Angeles.A What wasn't
>> seen was that during the collapse,
>>A A the brake line was damaged.A MD
>> swapped his stock wheels w/race tires
>>A A on and ran the Silver State a day or two
>> later, but when he stepped on
>>A A the brakes at the finish line, the line
>> ruptured, fluid sprayed onto
>>A A the exhaust and the rest was history.
>>A A And on and on and on...I'm sure there are
>> many others.
>>A A Those wheels were a very well-intentioned
>> design but they were woefully
>>A A under-engineered, and today should be
>> related either to a display case,
>>A A or a recycling bin IMHO....
>>A A So tell me exactly what kind of wheels
>> you're talking about here, as
>>A A the Coddington wheels (which I have
>> aesthetic problems with,
>>A A admittedly) are nothing like these Hall
>> wheels at all.
>>
>>A A Just let a local guy soda blast two of
>> them down to the green
>>A A A primer,
>>>A A I'll
>> probably paint them Argent Silver and Clear them just to
>>A A A see the
>>>A A final
>> results.
>>>A A Photo
>> attached.
>>
>>>>> Since I didn't get your
>> original e-mail, I didn't get the photo
>>A A either....
>>A A Cheers!
>>A A Mike
>>
>> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> [274]DeTomaso at poca.com
>> [275]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
>> To manage your subscription (change email address,
>> unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
> -------------- next part --------------
>A A Marshall,
>
>A A I have those too, considered having them Powdercoated, but the
center
>A A treatment would look silly. I have both the spinners and the
big black
>A A lugs. The other set is the 5 spoke from Hall/Boyd.
>
>A A Michael Shortt
>
>A A On Jan 13, 2016 5:15 PM, "marshall smith"
>A A <[1][276]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>A A A FYI....
>A A A I have 17 inch Hall 10 spoke wheels. They have welded
centers and
>A A A came with a center hub that had a dummy spinner and cone
that
>A A A covered the lug nuts or you could delete the cone and go
with
>A A A exposed lug nuts.
>A A A I was told that Boyd made these. Hall called them Mark 10s
as I
>A A A recall.
>A A A Marshall
>A A A --------------------------------------------
>A A A On Wed, 1/13/16, Mike Drew via DeTomaso
<[2][277]detomaso at poca.com>
>A A A wrote:
>A A A A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Campagnolo Wheels
>A A A A To: [3][278]davel at emspace.com, [4][279]detomaso at poca.com,
>A A A [5][280]michael at michaelshortt.com
>A A A A Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2016, 12:19 PM
>A A A A A A A In a message dated
>A A A A 1/10/16 21 39 38, [6][281]davel at emspace.com
>A A A A writes:
>A A A A AA A A A My 17" Hall wheels are a lot
>A A A A heavier than the mags.
>A A A A AA A A A I think that's fine for street, but
>A A A A aren't you concerned about the
>A A A A AA A A A unsprung weight for track use?
>A A A A AA A A A dave
>A A A A A A A >>>Interesting.AA This was
>A A A A apparently a reply to an original post by
>A A A A A A A Michael Shortt, but that post never came
>A A A A through to me nor did it wind
>A A A A A A A up in my spam folder?
>A A A A A A A I'm noting some irregularities with the
>A A A A forum these days....anyway,
>A A A A A A A thankfully Dave included Michael's
>A A A A original post, so see replies below:
>A A A A AA A A A On 1/08/16 9:17 PM, Michael Shortt
>A A A A wrote:
>A A A A AA A A A >A
>A A A A A A A Greetings,
>A A A A AA A A A >
>A A A A AA A A A >AA A A A After
>A A A A gathering all my wheels in one place and a brief
>A A A A AA A A A inventory today,
>A A A A AA A A A >AA A A A I have
>A A A A 21 Campy wheels,
>A A A A A A A >>>Uh...that's a lot. :>)
>A A A A AA A A A >AA A A A 5
>A A A A Single Slots and a mixture of the 4 Double Slots and Zero
>A A A A AA A A A Triple
>A A A A AA A A A >AA A A A Slots
>A A A A ( No 10") Plus 2 sets of 17" Boyd Coddington Wheels made
>A A A A AA A A A for Hall
>A A A A AA A A A >A
>A A A A A A A Pantera.
>A A A A A A A >>>Uh, I don't think Coddington
>A A A A every made wheels for Hall?AA He did
>A A A A A A A make them for several other vendors, in
>A A A A several different styles, some
>A A A A A A A markedly better than others.AA Can you
>A A A A share some images perhaps to help
>A A A A A A A in identification?
>A A A A A A A Hall did have somebody cast up ten-spoke
>A A A A Si-looking wheels that were
>A A A A A A A welded together, and perhaps Coddington
>A A A A was the source for those?
>A A A A AA A A A >>A
>A A A A A A A And the 17" 10 spokes on the car now with
>A A A A 335/35 and 245/40.
>A A A A A A A >>>What kind of wheels are
>A A A A those?AA 10 spokes is a pretty vague
>A A A A A A A descriiption--although I admit I'm pretty
>A A A A certain how many spokes they
>A A A A A A A have at least. :>)
>A A A A AA A A A >
>A A A A AA A A A >AA A A A I am
>A A A A keeping the 10 spokes with PZeros for Street use,
>A A A A AA A A A >AA A A A And
>A A A A one set of the 17" Hall Wheels with 315/235 Kumhos for
>A A A A AA A A A Rally and
>A A A A AA A A A >AA A A A Track
>A A A A use.
>A A A A A A A >>>Wait--are you talking about
>A A A A Coddington Campagnolo clones, or Hall
>A A A A A A A wheels which are three-piece,
>A A A A bolt-together affairs, with a fake center
>A A A A A A A spinner?AA Those are as different as
>A A A A chalk and cheese (with the latter
>A A A A A A A being the only genuinely suspect/dangerous
>A A A A wheels I've ever
>A A A A A A A encountered).
>A A A A AA A A A >AA A A A I will
>A A A A be keeping the Single Slots for Concours with skinny
>A A A A AA A A A Blackwalls
>A A A A AA A A A >AA A A A and a
>A A A A set of Double Slots with Vintage Arrivas for Photos,
>A A A A AA A A A With a spare
>A A A A AA A A A >AA A A A Front
>A A A A and a Spare Rear in case of a boo boo.
>A A A A A A A >>>Sounds good!
>A A A A AA A A A >
>A A A A AA A A A >>A
>A A A A A A A That leaves 2 full sets of double slot
>A A A A wheels to dispose of.
>A A A A AA A A A Sell or
>A A A A AA A A A >AA A A A Trade.
>A A A A Photos Available.
>A A A A A A A >>>Somebody just asked for a
>A A A A set--Guy Dellavecchia?AA What kind are
>A A A A A A A they?AA Guy might want to trade his
>A A A A '71 two-slot wheels for some L-model
>A A A A A A A wheels?
>A A A A AA A A A >AA A A A I'd
>A A A A love a Triple Slot set. Anybody have some?
>A A A A A A A >>>I have only ever seen two of
>A A A A them (separately) in my life.AA These
>A A A A A A A were an ...
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105. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
106. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
107. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
108. mailto:guson at home.se
109. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
110. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
111. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
112. mailto:tipo874a at msn.com
113. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
114. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
115. mailto:guson at home.se
116. mailto:guson at home.se
117. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
118. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
119. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
120. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
121. mailto:BLUPR19MB0163500785FD9792060E49A29DCB0 at BLUPR19MB0163.namprd19.prod.outlook.com
122. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
123. mailto:guson at home.se
124. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
125. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
126. mailto:michaelsavga at gmail.com
127. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
128. mailto:davel at emspace.com
129. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
130. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
131. mailto:Di5Q at mail.gmail.com
132. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
133. mailto:davel at emspace.com
134. http://www.michaelshortt.com/
135. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
136. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
137. mailto:davel at emspace.com
138. http://www.michaelshortt.com/
139. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
140. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
141. mailto:davel at emspace.com
142. http://www.michaelshortt.com/
143. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
144. mailto:guson at home.se
145. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
146. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
147. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
148. mailto:F6F0EDD7F26440B0970C3CD2C70F6033 at mail2world.com
149. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
150. mailto:guson at home.se
151. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
152. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
153. mailto:guson at home.se
154. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
155. mailto:guson at home.se
156. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
157. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
158. mailto:guson at home.se
159. mailto:larrys at panteraparts.com
160. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
161. mailto:davel at emspace.com
162. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
163. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
164. mailto:D2BC0041.15C59F%25larrys at panteraparts.com
165. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
166. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
167. mailto:davel at emspace.com
168. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
169. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
170. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
171. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
172. mailto:guson at home.se
173. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
174. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
175. http://gmail.com/
176. mailto:guson at home.se
177. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
178. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
179. mailto:72F2415F8F0A41A0BC5857747006BB5D at mail2world.com
180. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
181. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
182. mailto:guson at home.se
183. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
184. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
185. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
186. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
187. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
188. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
189. mailto:guson at home.se
190. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
191. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
192. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
193. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
194. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
195. mailto:guson at home.se
196. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
197. http://gmail.com/
198. mailto:guson at home.se
199. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
200. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
201. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
202. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
203. mailto:guson at home.se
204. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
205. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
206. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
207. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
208. mailto:guson at home.se
209. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
210. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
211. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
212. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
213. mailto:guson at home.se
214. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
215. mailto:detomaso at poca.co
216. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
217. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
218. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
219. mailto:guson at home.se
220. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
221. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
222. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
223. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
224. mailto:thomas at hax.se
225. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
226. mailto:5696CB22.5070902 at hax.se
227. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
228. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
229. mailto:thomas at hax.se
230. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
231. mailto:davel at emspace.com
232. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
233. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
234. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
235. mailto:621399975.3851038.1452723316243.JavaMail.yahoo at mail.yahoo.com
236. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
237. mailto:davel at emspace.com
238. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
239. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
240. mailto:davel at emspace.com
241. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
242. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
243. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
244. mailto:davel at emspace.com
245. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
246. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
247. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
248. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
249. mailto:1003982879.3795306.1452723858144.JavaMail.yahoo at mail.yahoo.com
250. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
251. mailto:davel at emspace.com
252. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
253. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
254. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
255. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
256. mailto:davel at emspace.com
257. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
258. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
259. mailto:davel at emspace.com
260. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
261. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
262. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
263. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
264. mailto:michaelsavga at gmail.com
265. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
266. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
267. mailto:CAEWtxWoBoP_w8V4hEH2fJDsmEVnwB4ueWkX8rJqC7R-FWTFj0A at mail.gmail.com
268. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
269. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
270. mailto:davel at emspace.com
271. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
272. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
273. mailto:davel at emspace.com
274. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
275. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
276. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
277. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
278. mailto:davel at emspace.com
279. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
280. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
281. mailto:davel at emspace.com
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