[DeTomaso] Fwd: Re: Tranny Paint Question??
Julian Kift
julian_kift at hotmail.com
Wed Dec 14 14:52:51 EST 2016
Good information and discussion;
I recall reading previously that polishing aluminum impedes heat dissipation. I related that to the fact that during polishing on a macro scale the surface roughness is reduced resulting in reduced surface area.
My polished stainless headers cool within fractions of what they did prior to adding grey ceramic coating. They are now cool to the touch within minutes.
In the same way that polishing impedes heat radiation from aluminum, so does shiny paint radiate less than matte. I believe colored paints are not much lower than black, the coating thickness (thinner being better) and adhesion being key to achieving good results.
In all of this remember the amount of heat that can be dissipated is dependent on the surroundings i.e. if your trunk is at the same temperature as your ZF there is no heat transfer. Providing cool air flow is king.
Julian
________________________________
From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of Dave Londry <davel at emspace.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2016 11:12:58 AM
To: detomasolist
Subject: [DeTomaso] Fwd: Re: Tranny Paint Question??
Thanks Dave. FYI, you did not share this with the forum, just me.
Excellent information. I invite you to reply all and share it.
Rob DuMoulin
904.476.8744
rob at dumoulins.net <mailto:rob at dumoulins.net>
www.kbsi.co<http://www.kbsi.co> <http://www.kbsi.co>
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 12:38 AM, Dave Londry <davel at emspace.com
<mailto:davel at emspace.com>> wrote:
I don't see much action here so:
The ZF will shed heat 3 ways.
- Conduction through the bolted surfaces.
This is likely the least heat transfer and the connector spots
are probably unpainted anyway.
- Convection (moving air) over the whole case.
Very significant heat transfer but will only change if there is a
big difference in surface roughness between the finishes.
(For the same surface temperature, which will change if there is
actually enough paint to act as an insulator)
- Radiation from the whole case.
Also very significant, and the measure of a surface's ability to
radiate is called Coefficient of Emissivity
Here are some handbook numbers.
Surface Material Emissivity Coefficient
<http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/radiation-heat-transfer-d_431.html>
- /ε -/
Alloy 24ST Polished 0.09
Alumina, Flame sprayed 0.8
Aluminum Commercial sheet 0.09
Aluminum Foil 0.04
Aluminum Commercial Sheet 0.09
Aluminum Heavily Oxidized 0.2 - 0.31
Aluminum Highly Polished 0.039 - 0.057
Aluminum Anodized 0.77
Aluminum Rough 0.07
Aluminum paint 0.27 - 0.67
Black Silicone Paint 0.93
Black Epoxy Paint 0.89
Black Enamel Paint 0.80
So you see some interesting stuff here.
- polishing aluminum impairs its ability to radiate heat
- painting it shiny improves it's ability to radiate
- painting it black improves it's ability to radiate even more.
Dave
On 2016-12-13 5:17 AM, Rob Dumoulin wrote:
> Interesting.A Anybody care to comment on how much heat powdercoat
> might retain in the transmission rather than dissipate if painted or
> polished?
>
> Rob DuMoulin
> 904.476.8744 <tel:%28904%29%20476-8744>
> [1]rob at dumoulins.net <mailto:1]rob at dumoulins.net>
> [2]www.kbsi.co <http://www.kbsi.co>
> [3]http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
> <http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58>
> On Mon, Dec 12, 2016 at 1:17 PM, Brent Stewart via DeTomaso
> <[4]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> <mailto:[4]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
>
> A A .
> A A I know, I know - don't paint the tranny.A Well, that horse
> left the
> A A barn.A It was painted when I got it and I want to touch it
> up.A No, not
> A A going to strip and blast, just want too give it a quick touch
> up.
> A A .
> A A The one on Craigslist right now had the same thing done
> A A ([1][5]http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/cto/59157228
> <http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/cto/59157228>)
> A A .
> A A Just wondering what paint to use? Seems like the same paint
> color some
> A A have used to touch up Campy wheels? appreciate any info you
> have...
> A A .
> A A thanks!
> A A brent
> A A .
> References
> A A 1. [6]http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/cto/59157228
> <http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/cto/59157228>
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
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> References
>
> 1.mailto:rob at dumoulins.net
> 2.http://www.kbsi.co/
> 3.http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
> <http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58>
> 4.mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> <mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> 5.http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/cto/59157228
> <http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/cto/59157228>
> 6.http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/cto/59157228
> <http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/cto/59157228>
> 7.mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> <mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
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--
Dave Londry
Embedded Spaces Inc. (ESI)
davel at emspace.com <mailto:davel at emspace.com>
904 429 1937 <tel:%28904%29%20429-1937> (SkypeCall FLA)
Skype:embeddedspaces
Canada Numbers
604 721 2278 <tel:%28604%29%20721-2278> (cell)
604 589 9182 <tel:%28604%29%20589-9182> (shop line)
604 589 9183 <tel:%28604%29%20589-9183> (home line)
-------------- next part --------------
Good information and discussion;
I recall reading previously that polishing aluminum impedes heat
dissipation. I related that to the fact that during polishing on
a macro scale the surface roughness is reduced resulting in reduced
surface area.
My polished stainless headers cool within fractions of what they did
prior to adding grey ceramic coating. They are now cool to the touch
within minutes.
In the same way that polishing impedes heat radiation from aluminum, so
does shiny paint radiate less than matte. I believe colored paints are
not much lower than black, the coating thickness (thinner being better)
and adhesion being key to achieving good results.
In all of this remember the amount of heat that can be dissipated is
dependent on the surroundings i.e. if your trunk is at the same
temperature as your ZF there is no heat transfer. Providing cool air
flow is king.
Julian
__________________________________________________________________
From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of
Dave Londry <davel at emspace.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2016 11:12:58 AM
To: detomasolist
Subject: [DeTomaso] Fwd: Re: Tranny Paint Question??
Thanks Dave. FYI, you did not share this with the forum, just me.
Excellent information. I invite you to reply all and share it.
Rob DuMoulin
904.476.8744
rob at dumoulins.net <[1]mailto:rob at dumoulins.net>
[2]www.kbsi.co <[3]http://www.kbsi.co>
[4]http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 12:38 AM, Dave Londry <davel at emspace.com
<[5]mailto:davel at emspace.com>> wrote:
I don't see much action here so:
The ZF will shed heat 3 ways.
- Conduction through the bolted surfaces.
This is likely the least heat transfer and the connector spots
are probably unpainted anyway.
- Convection (moving air) over the whole case.
Very significant heat transfer but will only change if there is
a
big difference in surface roughness between the finishes.
(For the same surface temperature, which will change if there is
actually enough paint to act as an insulator)
- Radiation from the whole case.
Also very significant, and the measure of a surface's ability to
radiate is called Coefficient of Emissivity
Here are some handbook numbers.
Surface Material Emissivity Coefficient
<[6]http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/radiation-heat-transfer-d_431.htm
l>
- /e -/
Alloy 24ST Polished 0.09
Alumina, Flame sprayed 0.8
Aluminum Commercial sheet 0.09
Aluminum Foil 0.04
Aluminum Commercial Sheet 0.09
Aluminum Heavily Oxidized 0.2 - 0.31
Aluminum Highly Polished 0.039 - 0.057
Aluminum Anodized 0.77
Aluminum Rough 0.07
Aluminum paint 0.27 - 0.67
Black Silicone Paint 0.93
Black Epoxy Paint 0.89
Black Enamel Paint 0.80
So you see some interesting stuff here.
- polishing aluminum impairs its ability to radiate heat
- painting it shiny improves it's ability to radiate
- painting it black improves it's ability to radiate even more.
Dave
On 2016-12-13 5:17 AM, Rob Dumoulin wrote:
> Interesting.A Anybody care to comment on how much heat
powdercoat
> might retain in the transmission rather than dissipate if
painted or
> polished?
>
> Rob DuMoulin
> 904.476.8744 <tel:%28904%29%20476-8744>
> [1]rob at dumoulins.net <[7]mailto:1]rob at dumoulins.net>
> [2]www.kbsi.co <[8]http://www.kbsi.co>
> [3]http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
> <[9]http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58>
> On Mon, Dec 12, 2016 at 1:17 PM, Brent Stewart via DeTomaso
> <[4]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> <[10]mailto:[4]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
>
> A A .
> A A I know, I know - don't paint the tranny.A Well, that
horse
> left the
> A A barn.A It was painted when I got it and I want to
touch it
> up.A No, not
> A A going to strip and blast, just want too give it a
quick touch
> up.
> A A .
> A A The one on Craigslist right now had the same thing
done
> A A ([1][5]http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/cto/59157228
> <[11]http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/cto/59157228>)
> A A .
> A A Just wondering what paint to use? Seems like the same
paint
> color some
> A A have used to touch up Campy wheels? appreciate any
info you
> have...
> A A .
> A A thanks!
> A A brent
> A A .
> References
> A A 1. [6]http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/cto/59157228
> <[12]http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/cto/59157228>
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
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> etc.) use the links above.
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to
forward
> any message posted here to all past, current, or future
members of
> the list. They also grant the list owner permission to
maintain an
> archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
>
> References
>
> 1.mailto:rob at dumoulins.net
> 2.http://www.kbsi.co/
> 3.http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
> <[15]http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58>
> 4.mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> <[16]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> 5.http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/cto/59157228
> <[17]http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/cto/59157228>
> 6.http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/cto/59157228
> <[18]http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/cto/59157228>
> 7.mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> <[19]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
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>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
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> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
etc.) use the links above.
>
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to
forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members
of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
--
Dave Londry
Embedded Spaces Inc. (ESI)
davel at emspace.com <[24]mailto:davel at emspace.com>
904 429 1937 <tel:%28904%29%20429-1937> (SkypeCall FLA)
Skype:embeddedspaces
Canada Numbers
604 721 2278 <tel:%28604%29%20721-2278> (cell)
604 589 9182 <tel:%28604%29%20589-9182> (shop line)
604 589 9183 <tel:%28604%29%20589-9183> (home line)
References
1. mailto:rob at dumoulins.net
2. http://www.kbsi.co/
3. http://www.kbsi.co/
4. http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
5. mailto:davel at emspace.com
6. http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/radiation-heat-transfer-d_431.html
7. mailto:1]rob at dumoulins.net
8. http://www.kbsi.co/
9. http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
10. mailto:[4]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
11. http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/cto/59157228
12. http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/cto/59157228
13. mailto:7]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
14. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
15. http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-dumoulin/0/1b6/58
16. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
17. http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/cto/59157228
18. http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/cto/59157228
19. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
20. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
21. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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23. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
24. mailto:davel at emspace.com
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