[DeTomaso] Radiator Dilemma
B Hower
b.hower3400 at yahoo.com
Tue Aug 16 09:57:32 EDT 2016
Follow up on my post of my Dennis Q / Ron Davis set up, I am not using side shrouds. I just ran SORC's 53 miles in the 105 class and had speeds to 140. I never caught the temperate reading even 200 . RPM's saw over 5,500 often and at times longer than I like. Also I finished 1st in the Loup 2 Loup 80 mph class. You can't trade me out of this radiator. I feel the cost to be money well spent.
Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow -- for there may not be ! )
From: Mike Drew via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
To: demongusta at gmail.com; detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 4:03 PM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Radiator Dilemma
Hey all - I need some good advice on radiators. I currently have a
Fluidyne performance unit without a shroud. I've been told that a
shroud is a necessity, which I understand.
>>>Not to put too fine a point on it, but that is not strictly true.
It all depends on the configuration of your radiator currently. Do you
have it in the stock position, with pusher fans? If so, the car came
from the factory with two side pieces and a top cover, which helped
ensure all air flowing through the grille would be forced through the
radiator and not spill around the sides. If you don't have those, you
definitely owe it to yourself to get them.
Do you have your radiator tilted forward, with sucker fans? If so,
it's still important to shroud the sides and top as much as possible.
Aftermarket sucker fans are pretty powerful, and while there is perhaps
something to be gained by fitting the back side of the radiator with an
all-encompassing shroud, there is also something to be lost, as at high
speeds the air can stagnate because it can't escape quickly enough due
to the blockage formed by the shroud.
Johnny Woods uses Flex-A-Lite sucker fans with integral shroud on his
car, and he experienced high-speed overheating that he attributed to
this problem. He cut holes in the shroud and fitted hinged flaps that
blow up when the pressure behind the radiator becomes excessive, and
that fixed his problem completely.
>I've had it for about 12 years now - no leaks.
>>>Be very happy. They have been known to leak, especially the early
ones. Sometimes the radiator is so large that it physically touches
the body, and when the body flexes it bends the radiator and causes it
to leak. As long as it is properly mounted, with rubber isolation both
at the bottom and the sides, it should be fine.
So if you have a radiator that isn't leaking, why are you talking about
changing it? The Fluidyne radiator is more than you need, as long as
the system is properly bled and the fans are working etc.
So what exactly are we talking about here?
>The rumblings on The List lean towards a unit by Dennis Quella(?) -
don't know the correct spelling or the company, but the last I had read
from someone was just to get his radiator and abe done with ita.
>>>That was, I thought, a laughable suggestion to spend $2000 to fix a
$200 problem, of a perfectly good radiator that had sprung a leak and
just needed to be repaired (which it subsequently was).
>I think it was a double-pass (I guess that's good) - and I assume it's
shrouded.
>>>The DQ radiator made by Ron Dennis is fantastic, no doubt.
>Another side of me asks - which is better - copper or aluminum? And
Why?
>>>Aluminum's chief advantage is that it is lighter. However, the
disadvantage is (supposedly) that it doesn't shed heat as well, so for
equal heat-shedding performance, an aluminum radiator needs to be made
larger, which means it holds more water, which means you gain back much
of the weight you supposedly saved once it's in the car.
The chief disadvantage of aluminum is that they are normally not
repairable. The discussion last week centered around a high-quality
brass Hall radiator that had sprung a leak; a crooked shop quoted $600
to repair it which is as much as it costs to replace it. He took it to
an honest shop and they totally restored it for $250.
When you are driving down the road and your radiator springs a leak far
from home, you can normally get a brass radiator repaired locally
without much trouble. When an aluminum radiator picks up a rock and
springs a leak, you take it out and throw it away. :<(
> I know the copper units are heavier, but I am not concerned about
extra weight. I am familiar with the company - Brassworks - they have
been at it since the early 1900's. Ken and Lela MacArthur had mentioned
Brassworks in July. So - here we go - I know the discussion will
generate a fair amount of opinions - which I always welcome, since it
will generate more questions too. Looking forward to hearing from all
the experts - i know you are out there.
>>>You will likely get differing opinions, and that's fine.
However, I would say that you are talking about replacing your radiator
without first identifying exactly WHY you are talking about replacing
it? If your Fluidyne was leaking, that would be an automatic
response. But if it's not leaking, what is your issue?
Overheating at slow speeds but cools fine when going down the road?
That's either poor fan performance, wrong thermostat (Windsor instead
of Cleveland), or air in the system.
Overheating all the time, even when going down the road? Almost
assuredly air in the system.
Neither condition requires a radiator change. If you had a stock,
original radiator that was visibly leaking and whose fins had separated
from the core, for sure you would want to replace it. As it is, IF you
even have a problem, it's a maintenance issue. In fact, changing the
radiator is likely to make the problem worse, not better, if when you
refill it you don't bleed it properly.
So please, tell us exactly what is prompting this discussion.
Cheers!
Mike
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-------------- next part --------------
Follow up on my post of my Dennis Q / Ron Davis set up, I am not using
side shrouds. I just ran SORC's 53 miles in the 105 class and had
speeds to 140. I never caught the temperate reading even 200 . RPM's
saw over 5,500 often and at times longer than I like. Also I finished
1st in the Loup 2 Loup 80 mph class. You can't trade me out of this
radiator. I feel the cost to be money well spent.
Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow -- for there may not be
! )
__________________________________________________________________
From: Mike Drew via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
To: demongusta at gmail.com; detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2016 4:03 PM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Radiator Dilemma
Hey all - I need some good advice on radiators. I currently have a
Fluidyne performance unit without a shroud. I've been told that a
shroud is a necessity, which I understand.
>>>Not to put too fine a point on it, but that is not strictly true.
It all depends on the configuration of your radiator currently. Do
you
have it in the stock position, with pusher fans? If so, the car came
from the factory with two side pieces and a top cover, which helped
ensure all air flowing through the grille would be forced through the
radiator and not spill around the sides. If you don't have those,
you
definitely owe it to yourself to get them.
Do you have your radiator tilted forward, with sucker fans? If so,
it's still important to shroud the sides and top as much as possible.
Aftermarket sucker fans are pretty powerful, and while there is
perhaps
something to be gained by fitting the back side of the radiator with
an
all-encompassing shroud, there is also something to be lost, as at
high
speeds the air can stagnate because it can't escape quickly enough
due
to the blockage formed by the shroud.
Johnny Woods uses Flex-A-Lite sucker fans with integral shroud on his
car, and he experienced high-speed overheating that he attributed to
this problem. He cut holes in the shroud and fitted hinged flaps
that
blow up when the pressure behind the radiator becomes excessive, and
that fixed his problem completely.
>I've had it for about 12 years now - no leaks.
>>>Be very happy. They have been known to leak, especially the early
ones. Sometimes the radiator is so large that it physically touches
the body, and when the body flexes it bends the radiator and causes
it
to leak. As long as it is properly mounted, with rubber isolation
both
at the bottom and the sides, it should be fine.
So if you have a radiator that isn't leaking, why are you talking
about
changing it? The Fluidyne radiator is more than you need, as long as
the system is properly bled and the fans are working etc.
So what exactly are we talking about here?
>The rumblings on The List lean towards a unit by Dennis Quella(?) -
don't know the correct spelling or the company, but the last I had
read
from someone was just to get his radiator and abe done with ita.
>>>That was, I thought, a laughable suggestion to spend $2000 to fix
a
$200 problem, of a perfectly good radiator that had sprung a leak and
just needed to be repaired (which it subsequently was).
>I think it was a double-pass (I guess that's good) - and I assume
it's
shrouded.
>>>The DQ radiator made by Ron Dennis is fantastic, no doubt.
>Another side of me asks - which is better - copper or aluminum? And
Why?
>>>Aluminum's chief advantage is that it is lighter. However, the
disadvantage is (supposedly) that it doesn't shed heat as well, so
for
equal heat-shedding performance, an aluminum radiator needs to be
made
larger, which means it holds more water, which means you gain back
much
of the weight you supposedly saved once it's in the car.
The chief disadvantage of aluminum is that they are normally not
repairable. The discussion last week centered around a high-quality
brass Hall radiator that had sprung a leak; a crooked shop quoted
$600
to repair it which is as much as it costs to replace it. He took it
to
an honest shop and they totally restored it for $250.
When you are driving down the road and your radiator springs a leak
far
from home, you can normally get a brass radiator repaired locally
without much trouble. When an aluminum radiator picks up a rock and
springs a leak, you take it out and throw it away. :<(
> I know the copper units are heavier, but I am not concerned about
extra weight. I am familiar with the company - Brassworks - they
have
been at it since the early 1900's. Ken and Lela MacArthur had
mentioned
Brassworks in July. So - here we go - I know the discussion will
generate a fair amount of opinions - which I always welcome, since it
will generate more questions too. Looking forward to hearing from all
the experts - i know you are out there.
>>>You will likely get differing opinions, and that's fine.
However, I would say that you are talking about replacing your
radiator
without first identifying exactly WHY you are talking about replacing
it? If your Fluidyne was leaking, that would be an automatic
response. But if it's not leaking, what is your issue?
Overheating at slow speeds but cools fine when going down the road?
That's either poor fan performance, wrong thermostat (Windsor instead
of Cleveland), or air in the system.
Overheating all the time, even when going down the road? Almost
assuredly air in the system.
Neither condition requires a radiator change. If you had a stock,
original radiator that was visibly leaking and whose fins had
separated
from the core, for sure you would want to replace it. As it is, IF
you
even have a problem, it's a maintenance issue. In fact, changing the
radiator is likely to make the problem worse, not better, if when you
refill it you don't bleed it properly.
So please, tell us exactly what is prompting this discussion.
Cheers!
Mike
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
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