[DeTomaso] resignations
Effie Richards
erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com
Tue Aug 16 02:36:25 EDT 2016
Mike,
I concur with Laurie's and Marshall's points and look forward to an explanation on this subject.
That will really help many of us who have been wondering, asking and waiting.
Thank you!
Effie
Sent from Effie's iPad
> On Aug 15, 2016, at 11:20 PM, marshallgsmith <marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> Hey Michael,
>
> I think the best way to put this controversy to bed is if you or your dad could speak about not being cooperative in regards to the the use of another printer that supposedly afforded the club an $8,000 savings. That really seems to be the only issue that continues this controversy and I still haven't heard either of you discuss the allegation. I'm sure your response will cut this thread for good and allow us all to move on with the rebuilding of this great club.
>
> Marshall Smith
> President, San Diego Panteras
>
>
>
> Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Michael Haney <paso750 at gmail.com>
> Date: 8/15/16 10:36 PM (GMT-08:00)
> To: 'Judith McCartney' <jpoca2 at hotmail.com>, 'Effie Richards' <erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com>, 'Julian Kift' <julian_kift at hotmail.com>
> Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com, 'laurie Basile' <laurieferrari at aol.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations
>
> Thank you very much, Judy.
> I really wish this thread would just die.
> I know that this isn't the answer you're fishing for, but it'll have to do
> since it's the truth.
> Nancy quit and took her associate (me) with her because she was tired of
> hearing from me all about Shortt's efforts to take over every aspect of
> POCA.
> I didn't fight her decision because I was in turn tired of Shortt's
> intimidation and bullying tactics. Frankly, being on the Board wasn't fun
> anymore and I was also very tired of Shortt's constant preening.
> As a matter of record, I resigned from the Board BEFORE Profiles #3 even
> went to the printer. I had nearly finished it and decided that I didn't want
> to let the POCA members down. I really didn't want to contribute any more to
> Shortt's regime, but my conscience won.
> Even after I sent the magazine in, I still had to deal with Shortt. He
> decided to interfere with the printer, sent them a database with a whole
> bunch of problematic info and threaten nonpayment if he didn't get
> preliminary proofs. How do I know this? I received a call while I was at
> work from the woman working in Allegra Printing's mail room. She called
> Shortt and he wouldn't help her with the database and ignored her questions.
> Having no one else to call, she called me. I in turn contacted Judy, our
> Membership Director, who fixed the problems that Shortt created.
> Regarding Shortt's allegations of graft, if anyone can find a connection
> between my family and anyone who EVER worked at Allegra Printing in Reno,
> Nevada, (or indeed any of Allegra's branches) please let me know.
> My Dad might respond as well, but he's been pretty busy caring for my
> SERIOUSLY ill Mom who was in the hospital for the last two weeks and who
> might finally be able to come back home in a couple more.
> Now, can we finally put this "controversy" to rest?
> Mike Haney
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf
> Of Judith McCartney
> Sent: Monday, August 15, 2016 8:44 PM
> To: Effie Richards; Julian Kift
> Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com; laurie Basile
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations
>
> Mike Haney gave his resignation months way head of Jacks, two diff reasons.
>
> Judith McCartney, Membership Director & Fun Rally coordinator.
>
>
> > From: erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com
> > Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 18:43:43 -0700
> > To: julian_kift at hotmail.com
> > CC: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com; laurieferrari at aol.com
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations
> >
> > Julian these are the same questions some of us have had and have been
> waiting for a reply or statement. I'm willing to give the board some time to
> come up with one.
> >
> > Sent from Effie's iPad
> >
> > > On Aug 15, 2016, at 6:29 PM, Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > I have digested all the emails on this topic and to be honest it still
> > > doesn't sit well in my gut.
> > >
> > >
> > > Presumably the BOD voted in favor of changing printers based upon the
> > > quotes presented. Did they not have all the facts and
> > > if not why did they not question further? Did Jack have all the facts
> w
> > > hen he resigned or were his and Mike Haney's resignations simply an
> > > outright stand against changing printer?
> > >
> > >
> > > Why did Michael push to change printer if he knew there was only
> > > pennies between it?
> > >
> > >
> > > Julian
> > > __________________________________________________________________
> > >
> > > From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of
> > > marshall smith <marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
> > > Sent: Monday, August 15, 2016 10:11 AM
> > > To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com; laurieferrari at aol.com
> > > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations
> > >
> > > I find it funny that three months after the Fun Rally we are now
> > > hearing that Shortt's bid for printing did not include shipping.
> Shortt
> > > is a lot of things but a mistake like this...?
> > > I was listening in on this meeting also and I know what I heard.
> > > Apparently, the board convinced 'some' members of this so-called
> > > discrepancy month's ago. Why wasn't this information, if it exists,
> > > relayed to ALL of us in a timely manner?
> > > Marshall
> > >
> > > --------------------------------------------
> > > On Mon, 8/15/16, Laurie Ferrari via DeTomaso
> > > <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
> > > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations
> > > To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > > Date: Monday, August 15, 2016, 9:57 AM
> > >
> > > Dear AJ,
> > >
> > > I have always respected you and your
> > > opinions but in this case you are
> > > incorrect as far as the resignation of
> > > Jack DeRyke. I was on the Board
> > > of Directors' conference call where he was
> > > asked to stay and he
> > > adamantly refused to if the printer
> > > changed. Jack's resignation was
> > > specifically because of the change in
> > > printer! You can go research
> > > that phone conference call, or the minutes
> > > of the meeting, as the facts
> > > are saved. As far as Mike Haney's
> > > resignation, that was done by his
> > > Mrs. for their reasons which most likely
> > > were aligned with their
> > > parents.
> > >
> > > Laurie
> > >
> > > In a message dated 8/13/2016
> > > 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,?
> > > [1]asajay at asajay.com
> > > writes:
> > > The last? I heard (and I may have
> > > heard wrong), the board was
> > > interested
> > > in doing a? -real- accounting
> > > comparison of printing costs, so for
> > > me,
> > > it's a wait and? see kind of
> > > thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing
> > > out on
> > > full-color? and paying $8,000 more
> > > for B/W then something is amiss.?
> > > However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt
> > > didn't account for all costs
> > > properly.? I? have more faith that
> > > the present board members will
> > > properly investigate? and sort it
> > > out for everyone.
> > > I am on-board with electronic
> > > delivery,? though I do admit it's nice
> > > to
> > > just sit back and read a paper
> > > copy? too.? It's also easier to
> > > hand-off
> > > to Sam so he can read it? later.?
> > > How do you really fix that?
> > > I would think (and I don't? know),
> > > that the ClubExpress membership
> > > database might be able to include
> > > a? "preference" as part of the
> > > member's
> > > profile or details.? Just as I? can
> > > set an address and phone number,
> > > if I
> > > could check a box for Electronic?
> > > delivery or paper copies, or both,
> > > and
> > > select whatever I wanted for each?
> > > item (Profiles versus
> > > Newsletter),
> > > that might be ideal.
> > > However,? I'm also familiar with
> > > quantity discounting.? It very well
> > > could be? that it costs the same
> > > amount to print 500 as it does to
> > > print
> > > 50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I
> > > imagine those are considerations the
> > > board will? look at as well.
> > > Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie
> > > has claimed, I have? heard (from
> > > more
> > > than one person), that Jack and
> > > Mike did not resign? "because POCA
> > > changed printers;" it was over
> > > "control" of newsletter? content that
> > > in
> > > essence fell outside the bounds of
> > > the by-laws.? For? a guy that
> > > appeared
> > > to try very hard to get everyone
> > > else to follow the? by-laws (and
> > > it's
> > > unwritten code of ethics), Mr.
> > > Shortt certainly didn't? feel they
> > > applied
> > > to him.
> > > For the record, as I understand it,
> > > POCA? has changed printers
> > > -twice-
> > > since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were
> > > related? to the DeRykes) got out
> > > of
> > > the business.? So the "family
> > > tie-in"? previously eluded to, was not
> > > a
> > > factor in the resignations.
> > > Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted
> > > for inflation)
> > > Asa? Jay
> > > Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt,
> > > USAFR, Retired
> > > &? Shelley? Mar
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: detomaso-request <detomaso-request at server.detomasolist.com>
> > > To: detomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> > > Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2016 9:00 am
> > > Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 146, Issue
> > > 20
> > > Send DeTomaso mailing list submissions to
> > > [2]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World
> > > Wide Web, visit
> > > [3]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > > or, via email, send a message with subject
> > > or body 'help' to
> > > detomaso-[4]request at server.detomasolist.com
> > > You can reach the person managing the list
> > > at
> > > detomaso-[5]owner at server.detomasolist.com
> > > When replying, please edit your Subject
> > > line so it is more specific
> > > than "Re: Contents of DeTomaso digest..."
> > > Daily Detomaso List Digest
> > > Today's Topics:
> > > 1. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs.
> > > electronic (marshallgsmith)
> > > 2. Re: De Tomaso Pantera GTS on eBay!
> > > again $250K!! (Michael Cox)
> > > 3. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs.
> > > electronic (Stephen)
> > >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > ---
> > > Message: 1
> > > Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 20:27:43 -0700
> > > From: marshallgsmith <[6]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
> > > To: [7]P6746 at aol.com, [8]asajay at asajay.com,
> > > [9]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost,
> > > paper vs. electronic
> > > Message-ID:
> > > <[10]sdxpj9k7caacwyvlamgw7uly.1471231663405 at email.android.com>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> > > I have a couple questions Bob:
> > >> Calling this situation "multiple dues
> > > levels" seems to be making the
> > > issue too complex. There are some members
> > > that are opting to not have
> > > printed magazines mailed which should make
> > > those members eligible for a
> > > discount because of the savings.
> > >> What is your estimate of the length
> > > of time that it would take the
> > > board to arrange for a vote of the
> > > membership to change the bylaws to
> > > allow for this discount?
> > >> Who specifically made that
> > > apples-to-apples comparison you refer to?
> > >> I agree that the editors should have
> > > the most influence ?on the
> > > process. ?However, our editors of both
> > > publications seem to have a hard
> > > time reporting to the members about ANY
> > > issues pertaining to the
> > > publication's themselves. Might that
> > > change in the near future or will
> > > radio silence be the norm here?
> > > Marshall Smith
> > > Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone
> > > -------- Original message --------
> > > From: P6746--- via DeTomaso <[11]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> > > Date: 8/14/16 3:10 PM (GMT-08:00)
> > > To: [12]asajay at asajay.com,
> > > [13]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost,
> > > paper vs. electronic
> > > To use a cliche, we're working on it.?
> > > Most of what has been mentioned is in the
> > > pipeline.?? However, there
> > > are
> > > restrictions, particularly with the
> > > By-Laws as they currently? stand.?
> > > There
> > > are no provisions for multiple dues
> > > levels,? particularly pertaining to
> > > how a
> > > member elects to have their club?
> > > publications delivered, etc.? That
> > > will
> > > take time as any changes or? amendments
> > > must be approved by the whole
> > > membership.
> > > The consensus seems to be that the
> > > Profiles would? continue as a print
> > > publication for all except foreign members
> > > who elect to? receive it
> > > digitally.?
> > > As far as printing is concerned, it is
> > > that first copy that is? so
> > > expensive, it is the subsequent copies
> > > that bring down the per unit?
> > > cost.? So as
> > > fewer units are produced and shipped, the
> > > cost per unit? increases but
> > > not
> > > proportionately.??
> > > An apples to apples comparison was made
> > > between an online? printer and
> > > the
> > > current printer for both printing and
> > > mailing and the difference? was
> > > pennies.? That wasn't pennies per unit but
> > > for the whole run.?
> > > As far as I am concerned, it is the
> > > editors who should have? the most
> > > influence as to how and where their
> > > product is produced.? They are? the
> > > ones who
> > > must work with the printers and mailing
> > > houses on a regular? basis.
> > > Bob Reid?
> > > In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M.
> > > Eastern Daylight Time,?
> > > [14]asajay at asajay.com
> > > writes:
> > > The last? I heard (and I may have heard
> > > wrong), the board was
> > > interested
> > > in doing a? -real- accounting comparison
> > > of printing costs, so for me,
> > > it's a wait and? see kind of thing.? I
> > > agree, if POCA was missing out
> > > on
> > > full-color? and paying $8,000 more for B/W
> > > then something is amiss.?
> > > However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt didn't
> > > account for all costs
> > > properly.? I? have more faith that the
> > > present board members will
> > > properly investigate? and sort it out for
> > > everyone.
> > > I am on-board with electronic delivery,?
> > > though I do admit it's nice to
> > > just sit back and read a paper copy? too.?
> > > It's also easier to hand-off
> > > to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do
> > > you really fix that?
> > > I would think (and I don't? know), that
> > > the ClubExpress membership
> > > database might be able to include a?
> > > "preference" as part of the
> > > member's
> > > profile or details.? Just as I? can set an
> > > address and phone number, if
> > > I
> > > could check a box for Electronic? delivery
> > > or paper copies, or both,
> > > and
> > > select whatever I wanted for each? item
> > > (Profiles versus Newsletter),
> > > that might be ideal.
> > > However,? I'm also familiar with quantity
> > > discounting.? It very well
> > > could be? that it costs the same amount to
> > > print 500 as it does to
> > > print
> > > 50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I imagine
> > > those are considerations the
> > > board will? look at as well.
> > > Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has
> > > claimed, I have? heard (from
> > > more
> > > than one person), that Jack and Mike did
> > > not resign? "because POCA
> > > changed printers;" it was over "control"
> > > of newsletter? content that in
> > > essence fell outside the bounds of the
> > > by-laws.? For? a guy that
> > > appeared
> > > to try very hard to get everyone else to
> > > follow the? by-laws (and it's
> > > unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt
> > > certainly didn't? feel they
> > > applied
> > > to him.
> > > For the record, as I understand it, POCA?
> > > has changed printers -twice-
> > > since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were
> > > related? to the DeRykes) got out of
> > > the business.? So the "family tie-in"?
> > > previously eluded to, was not a
> > > factor in the resignations.
> > > Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted for
> > > inflation)
> > > Asa? Jay
> > > Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR,
> > > Retired
> > > &? Shelley? Marie
> > > Spokane,? WA
> > > ******************************
> > > [15]http://w7tsc.org
> > > [16]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Detomaso? Email List is not managed by
> > > POCA
> > > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5?
> > > Megabytes
> > > DeTomaso mailing? list
> > > [17]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > > [18]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > > To? manage your subscription (change email
> > > address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> > > use
> > > the? links above.
> > > Members who post to this list grant
> > > license to the list to? forward any
> > > message posted here to all past, current,
> > > or future members of the?
> > > list. They
> > > also grant the list owner permission to
> > > maintain an archive or? approve
> > > the
> > > archiving of list? messages.
> > > ?? To use a cliche, we're working on it.
> > > ?? Most of what has been mentioned is in
> > > the pipeline.? However, there
> > > are
> > > ?? restrictions, particularly with the
> > > By-Laws as they currently stand.
> > > ?? There are no provisions for multiple
> > > dues levels,
> > > ?? particularly pertaining to how a member
> > > elects to have their club
> > > ?? publications delivered, etc.? That will
> > > take time as any changes or
> > > ?? amendments must be approved by the
> > > whole membership.
> > > ?? The consensus seems to be that the
> > > Profiles would continue as a
> > > print
> > > ?? publication for all except foreign
> > > members who elect to receive it
> > > ?? digitally.
> > > ?? As far as printing is concerned, it is
> > > that first copy that is so
> > > ?? expensive, it is the subsequent copies
> > > that bring down the per unit
> > > ?? cost.? So as fewer units are produced
> > > and shipped, the cost per unit
> > > ?? increases but not proportionately.
> > > ?? An apples to apples comparison was made
> > > between an online printer
> > > and
> > > ?? the current printer for both printing
> > > and mailing and the difference
> > > ?? was pennies.? That wasn't pennies per
> > > unit but for the whole run.
> > > ?? As far as I am concerned, it is the
> > > editors who should have the most
> > > ?? influence as to how and where their
> > > product is produced.? They are
> > > the
> > > ?? ones who must work with the printers
> > > and mailing houses on a regular
> > > ?? basis.
> > > ?? Bob Reid
> > > ?? In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24
> > > P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> > > ?? [19]asajay at asajay.com
> > > writes:
> > > ???? The last I heard (and I may have
> > > heard wrong), the board was
> > > ???? interested
> > > ???? in doing a -real- accounting
> > > comparison of printing costs, so for
> > > ???? me,
> > > ???? it's a wait and see kind of thing.? I
> > > agree, if POCA was missing
> > > out
> > > ???? on
> > > ???? full-color and paying $8,000 more for
> > > B/W then something is amiss.
> > > ???? However, I also believe Mr. Shortt
> > > didn't account for all costs
> > > ???? properly.? I have more faith that the
> > > present board members will
> > > ???? properly investigate and sort it out
> > > for everyone.
> > > ???? I am on-board with electronic
> > > delivery, though I do admit it's
> > > nice
> > > ???? to
> > > ???? just sit back and read a paper copy
> > > too.? It's also easier to
> > > ???? hand-off
> > > ???? to Sam so he can read it later.? How
> > > do you really fix that?
> > > ???? I would think (and I don't know),
> > > that the ClubExpress membership
> > > ???? database might be able to include a
> > > "preference" as part of the
> > > ???? member's
> > > ???? profile or details.? Just as I can
> > > set an address and phone
> > > number,
> > > ???? if I
> > > ???? could check a box for Electronic
> > > delivery or paper copies, or
> > > both,
> > > ???? and
> > > ???? select whatever I wanted for each
> > > item (Profiles versus
> > > Newsletter),
> > > ???? that might be ideal.
> > > ???? However, I'm also familiar with
> > > quantity discounting.? It very
> > > well
> > > ???? could be that it costs the same
> > > amount to print 500 as it does to
> > > ???? print
> > > ???? 50, or 10 (but I doubt it).? I
> > > imagine those are considerations
> > > the
> > > ???? board will look at as well.
> > > ???? Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie
> > > has claimed, I have heard (from
> > > ???? more
> > > ???? than one person), that Jack and Mike
> > > did not resign "because POCA
> > > ???? changed printers;" it was over
> > > "control" of newsletter content
> > > that
> > > ???? in
> > > ???? essence fell outside the bounds of
> > > the by-laws.? For a guy that
> > > ???? appeared
> > > ???? to try very hard to get everyone else
> > > to follow the by-laws (and
> > > ???? it's
> > > ???? unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt
> > > certainly didn't feel they
> > > ???? applied
> > > ???? to him.
> > > ???? For the record, as I understand it,
> > > POCA has changed printers
> > > ???? -twice-
> > > ???? since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were
> > > related to the DeRykes) got
> > > out
> > > ???? of
> > > ???? the business.? So the "family tie-in"
> > > previously eluded to, was
> > > not
> > > ???? a
> > > ???? factor in the resignations.
> > > ???? Just my $1.50? (two cents adjusted
> > > for inflation)
> > > ???? Asa? Jay
> > > ???? Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt,
> > > USAFR, Retired
> > > ???? &? Shelley Marie
> > > ???? Spokane, WA
> > > ???? ******************************
> > > ???? [20]http://w7tsc.org
> > > ???? [21]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
> > > ????
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > ???? Detomaso Email List is not managed by
> > > POCA
> > > ???? Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
> > > Megabytes
> > > ???? DeTomaso mailing list
> > > ???? [22]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > > ???? [23]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > > ???? To manage your subscription (change
> > > email address, unsubscribe,
> > > ???? etc.) use the links above.
> > > ???? Members who post to this list grant
> > > license to the list to forward
> > > ???? any message posted here to all past,
> > > current, or future members of
> > > ???? the list. They also grant the list
> > > owner permission to maintain an
> > > ???? archive or approve the archiving of
> > > list messages.
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Detomaso Email List is not managed by
> > > POCA
> > > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
> > > Megabytes
> > > DeTomaso mailing list
> > > [24]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > > [25]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > > To manage your subscription (change email
> > > address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> > > use the links above.
> > > Members who post to this list grant
> > > license to the list to forward any
> > > message posted here to all past, current,
> > > or future members of the
> > > list. They also grant the list owner
> > > permission to maintain an archive
> > > or approve the archiving of list
> > > messages.
> > > -------------- next part --------------
> > > I have a couple questions Bob:
> > >> Calling this situation "multiple dues
> > > levels" seems to be making the
> > > issue too complex. There are some members
> > > that are opting to not have
> > > printed magazines mailed which should make
> > > those members eligible for a
> > > discount because of the savings.
> > >> What is your estimate of the length
> > > of time that it would take the
> > > board to arrange for a vote of the
> > > membership to change the bylaws to
> > > allow for this discount?
> > >> Who specifically made that
> > > apples-to-apples comparison you refer to?
> > >> I agree that the editors should have
> > > the most influence on the
> > > process. However, our editors of both
> > > publications seem to have a hard
> > > time reporting to the members about ANY
> > > issues pertaining to the
> > > publication's themselves. Might that
> > > change in the near future or will
> > > radio silence be the norm here?
> > > Marshall Smith
> > > Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone
> > > -------- Original message --------
> > > From: P6746--- via DeTomaso <[26]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> > > Date: 8/14/16 3:10 PM (GMT-08:00)
> > > To: [27]asajay at asajay.com,
> > > [28]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost,
> > > paper vs. electronic
> > > To use a cliche, we're working on it.
> > > Most of what has been mentioned is in the
> > > pipeline. However, there
> > > are
> > > restrictions, particularly with the
> > > By-Laws as they currently stand.
> > > There
> > > are no provisions for multiple dues
> > > levels, particularly pertaining to
> > > how a
> > > member elects to have their club
> > > publications delivered, etc. That
> > > will
> > > take time as any changes or amendments
> > > must be approved by the whole
> > > membership.
> > > The consensus seems to be that the
> > > Profiles would continue as a print
> > > publication for all except foreign members
> > > who elect to receive it
> > > digitally.
> > > As far as printing is concerned, it is
> > > that first copy that is so
> > > expensive, it is the subsequent copies
> > > that bring down the per unit
> > > cost. So as
> > > fewer units are produced and shipped, the
> > > cost per unit increases but
> > > not
> > > proportionately.
> > > An apples to apples comparison was made
> > > between an online printer and
> > > the
> > > current printer for both printing and
> > > mailing and the difference was
> > > pennies. That wasn't pennies per unit but
> > > for the whole run.
> > > As far as I am concerned, it is the
> > > editors who should have the most
> > > influence as to how and where their
> > > product is produced. They are the
> > > ones who
> > > must work with the printers and mailing
> > > houses on a regular basis.
> > > Bob Reid
> > > In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M.
> > > Eastern Daylight Time,
> > > [29]asajay at asajay.com
> > > writes:
> > > The last I heard (and I may have heard
> > > wrong), the board was
> > > interested
> > > in doing a -real- accounting comparison of
> > > printing costs, so for me,
> > > it's a wait and see kind of thing. I
> > > agree, if POCA was missing out
> > > on
> > > full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W
> > > then something is amiss.
> > > However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't
> > > account for all costs
> > > properly. I have more faith that the
> > > present board members will
> > > properly investigate and sort it out for
> > > everyone.
> > > I am on-board with electronic delivery,
> > > though I do admit it's nice to
> > > just sit back and read a paper copy too.
> > > It's also easier to hand-off
> > > to Sam so he can read it later. How do you
> > > really fix that?
> > > I would think (and I don't know), that the
> > > ClubExpress membership
> > > database might be able to include a
> > > "preference" as part of the
> > > member's
> > > profile or details. Just as I can set an
> > > address and phone number, if
> > > I
> > > could check a box for Electronic delivery
> > > or paper copies, or both,
> > > and
> > > select whatever I wanted for each item
> > > (Profiles versus Newsletter),
> > > that might be ideal.
> > > However, I'm also familiar with quantity
> > > discounting. It very well
> > > could be that it costs the same amount to
> > > print 500 as it does to
> > > print
> > > 50, or 10 (but I doubt it). I imagine
> > > those are considerations the
> > > board will look at as well.
> > > Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has
> > > claimed, I have heard (from
> > > more
> > > than one person), that Jack and Mike did
> > > not resign "because POCA
> > > changed printers;" it was over "control"
> > > of newsletter content that in
> > > essence fell outside the bounds of the
> > > by-laws. For a guy that
> > > appeared
> > > to try very hard to get everyone else to
> > > follow the by-laws (and it's
> > > unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt
> > > certainly didn't feel they
> > > applied
> > > to him.
> > > For the record, as I understand it, POCA
> > > has changed printers -twice-
> > > since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were
> > > related to the DeRykes) got out of
> > > the business. So the "family tie-in"
> > > previously eluded to, was not a
> > > factor in the resignations.
> > > Just my $1.50 (two cents adjusted for
> > > inflation)
> > > Asa Jay
> > > Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR,
> > > Retired
> > > & Shelley Marie
> > > Spokane, WA
> > > ******************************
> > > [30]http://w7tsc.org
> > > [31]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Detomaso Email List is not managed by
> > > POCA
> > > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
> > > Megabytes
> > > DeTomaso mailing list
> > > [32]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > > [33]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > > To manage your subscription (change email
> > > address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> > > use
> > > the links above.
> > > Members who post to this list grant
> > > license to the list to forward any
> > > message posted here to all past, current,
> > > or future members of the
> > > list. They
> > > also grant the list owner permission to
> > > maintain an archive or approve
> > > the
> > > archiving of list messages.
> > > To use a cliche, we're working on it.
> > > Most of what has been mentioned is in the
> > > pipeline. However, there
> > > are
> > > restrictions, particularly with the
> > > By-Laws as they currently stand.
> > > There are no provisions for multiple dues
> > > levels,
> > > particularly pertaining to how a member
> > > elects to have their club
> > > publications delivered, etc. That will
> > > take time as any changes or
> > > amendments must be approved by the whole
> > > membership.
> > > The consensus seems to be that the
> > > Profiles would continue as a
> > > print
> > > publication for all except foreign members
> > > who elect to receive it
> > > digitally.
> > > As far as printing is concerned, it is
> > > that first copy that is so
> > > expensive, it is the subsequent copies
> > > that bring down the per unit
> > > cost. So as fewer units are produced and
> > > shipped, the cost per unit
> > > increases but not proportionately.
> > > An apples to apples comparison was made
> > > between an online printer
> > > and
> > > the current printer for both printing and
> > > mailing and the difference
> > > was pennies. That wasn't pennies per unit
> > > but for the whole run.
> > > As far as I am concerned, it is the
> > > editors who should have the most
> > > influence as to how and where their
> > > product is produced. They are
> > > the
> > > ones who must work with the printers and
> > > mailing houses on a regular
> > > basis.
> > > Bob Reid
> > > In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M.
> > > Eastern Daylight Time,
> > > [34]asajay at asajay.com
> > > writes:
> > > The last I heard (and I may have heard
> > > wrong), the board was
> > > interested
> > > in doing a -real- accounting comparison of
> > > printing costs, so for
> > > me,
> > > it's a wait and see kind of thing. I
> > > agree, if POCA was missing
> > > out
> > > on
> > > full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W
> > > then something is amiss.
> > > However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't
> > > account for all costs
> > > properly. I have more faith that the
> > > present board members will
> > > properly investigate and sort it out for
> > > everyone.
> > > I am on-board with electronic delivery,
> > > though I do admit it's
> > > nice
> > > to
> > > just sit back and read a paper copy too.
> > > It's also easier to
> > > hand-off
> > > to Sam so he can read it later. How do you
> > > really fix that?
> > > I would think (and I don't know), that the
> > > ClubExpress membership
> > > database might be able to include a
> > > "preference" as part of the
> > > member's
> > > profile or details. Just as I can set an
> > > address and phone
> > > number,
> > > if I
> > > could check a box for Electronic delivery
> > > or paper copies, or
> > > both,
> > > and
> > > select whatever I wanted for each item
> > > (Profiles versus
> > > Newsletter),
> > > that might be ideal.
> > > However, I'm also familiar with quantity
> > > discounting. It very
> > > well
> > > could be that it costs the same amount to
> > > print 500 as it does to
> > > print
> > > 50, or 10 (but I doubt it). I imagine
> > > those are considerations
> > > the
> > > board will look at as well.
> > > Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has
> > > claimed, I have heard (from
> > > more
> > > than one person), that Jack and Mike did
> > > not resign "because POCA
> > > changed printers;" it was over "control"
> > > of newsletter content
> > > that
> > > in
> > > essence fell outside the bounds of the
> > > by-laws. For a guy that
> > > appeared
> > > to try very hard to get everyone else to
> > > follow the by-laws (and
> > > it's
> > > unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt
> > > certainly didn't feel they
> > > applied
> > > to him.
> > > For the record, as I understand it, POCA
> > > has changed printers
> > > -twice-
> > > since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were
> > > related to the DeRykes) got
> > > out
> > > of
> > > the business. So the "family tie-in"
> > > previously eluded to, was
> > > not
> > > a
> > > factor in the resignations.
> > > Just my $1.50 (two cents adjusted for
> > > inflation)
> > > Asa Jay
> > > Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR,
> > > Retired
> > > & Shelley Marie
> > > Spokane, WA
> > > ******************************
> > > [35]http://w7tsc.org
> > > [36]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Detomaso Email List is not managed by
> > > POCA
> > > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
> > > Megabytes
> > > DeTomaso mailing list
> > > [37]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > > [38]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > > To manage your subscription (change email
> > > address, unsubscribe,
> > > etc.) use the links above.
> > > Members who post to this list grant
> > > license to the list to forward
> > > any message posted here to all past,
> > > current, or future members of
> > > the list. They also grant the list owner
> > > permission to maintain an
> > > archive or approve the archiving of list
> > > messages.
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Detomaso Email List is not managed by
> > > POCA
> > > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
> > > Megabytes
> > > DeTomaso mailing list
> > > [39]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > > [40]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > > To manage your subscription (change email
> > > address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> > > use the links above.
> > > Members who post to this list grant
> > > license to the list to forward any
> > > message posted here to all past, current,
> > > or future members of the
> > > list. They also grant the list owner
> > > permission to maintain an archive
> > > or approve the archiving of list
> > > messages.
> > > ------------------------------
> > > Message: 2
> > > Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 20:56:45 -0700
> > > From: Michael Cox <[41]coxmichaelt at gmail.com>
> > > To: [42]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] De Tomaso Pantera
> > > GTS on eBay! again $250K!!
> > > Message-ID:
> > >
> <CAMPkPf3HQcqg5vLxgjpJP=7z=UBbrVs=[43]ynAnbzepC1U9QH+A_Q at mail.gmail
> > > .com
> > >>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> > >> From: Ed Mendez <[44]edducati at mac.com>
> > >> Subject: [DeTomaso] De Tomaso Pantera
> > > GTS on eBay! again $250K!!
> > >>
> > >> Hi! I found this on eBay and thought
> > > you might like it! Check it out
> > > now! De Tomaso:
> > >> Other Pantera GTS [45]http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
> > > These guys found that ad too. :^)
> > >
> [46]http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-panter
> > > a-ha
> > > s-only-785-miles-to-its-name/109069/
> > > --michael cox
> > > -------------- next part --------------
> > >> From: Ed Mendez <[1][47]edducati at mac.com>
> > >> Subject: [DeTomaso] De Tomaso Pantera
> > > GTS on eBay! again $250K!!
> > >> A
> > >> Hi! I found this on eBay and thought
> > > you might like it! Check it out
> > > now!A De Tomaso:
> > >> Other Pantera GTSA [2][48]http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
> > > These guys found that ad too. A :^)
> > >
> [3][49]http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-pan
> > > tera
> > > -has
> > > -only-785-miles-to-its-name/109069/
> > > A A --michael cox
> > > References
> > > 1. [50]mailto:edducati at mac.com
> > > 2. [51]http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
> > > 3.
> > >
> [52]http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-panter
> > > a-ha
> > > s-only-785-miles-to-its-name/109069/
> > > ------------------------------
> > > Message: 3
> > > Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 08:05:15 -0700
> > > From: "Stephen" <[53]steve at snclocks.com>
> > > To: "'marshallgsmith'" <[54]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>,
> > > <[55]P6746 at aol.com>,
> > > <[56]asajay at asajay.com>,
> > > <[57]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> > > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost,
> > > paper vs. electronic
> > > Message-ID:
> > > <004701d1f706$6ead4a50$4c07def0$@snclocks.com>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> > > Having been on Boards before - I'd suggest
> > > the current Board deserves
> > > some time to catch their breath and
> > > recover from the situation they
> > > have recently been through. It is amazing
> > > how much time something like
> > > this takes - and I suspect everyone on the
> > > Board would like to catch up
> > > on all the things they have let slide
> > > while coping with the removal of
> > > a president and all the animosity and
> > > e-mails the whole mess generated.
> > > It's so easy to ask questions - but takes
> > > a lot more time to figure out
> > > how to do everything asked below. For now,
> > > let's just let the Board
> > > recover and slowly get some of the loose
> > > ends taken care of.
> > > Stephen Nelson
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: DeTomaso
> > > [[58]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com]
> > > On
> > > Behalf Of marshallgsmith
> > > Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2016 8:28 PM
> > > To: [59]P6746 at aol.com; [60]asajay at asajay.com;
> > > [61]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost,
> > > paper vs. electronic
> > > I have a couple questions Bob:
> > >> Calling this situation "multiple dues
> > > levels" seems to be making the
> > > issue too complex. There are some members
> > > that are opting to not have
> > > printed magazines mailed which should make
> > > those members eligible for a
> > > discount because of the savings.
> > >> What is your estimate of the length
> > > of time that it would take the
> > > board to arrange for a vote of the
> > > membership to change the bylaws to
> > > allow for this discount?
> > >> Who specifically made that
> > > apples-to-apples comparison you refer to?
> > >> I agree that the editors should have
> > > the most influence on the
> > > process. However, our editors of both
> > > publications seem to have a hard
> > > time reporting to the members about ANY
> > > issues pertaining to the
> > > publication's themselves. Might that
> > > change in the near future or will
> > > radio silence be the norm here?
> > > Marshall Smith
> > > Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone
> > > -------- Original message --------
> > > From: P6746--- via DeTomaso <[62]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> > > Date: 8/14/16 3:10 PM (GMT-08:00)
> > > To: [63]asajay at asajay.com,
> > > [64]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost,
> > > paper vs. electronic
> > > To use a cliche, we're working on it.
> > > Most of what has been mentioned is in the
> > > pipeline. However, there are
> > > restrictions, particularly with the
> > > By-Laws as they currently stand.
> > > There are no provisions for multiple dues
> > > levels, particularly
> > > pertaining to how a member elects to have
> > > their club publications
> > > delivered, etc. That will take time as any
> > > changes or amendments must
> > > be approved by the whole membership.
> > > The consensus seems to be that the
> > > Profiles would continue as a print
> > > publication for all except foreign members
> > > who elect to receive it
> > > digitally.
> > > As far as printing is concerned, it is
> > > that first copy that is so
> > > expensive, it is the subsequent copies
> > > that bring down the per unit
> > > cost. So as fewer units are produced and
> > > shipped, the cost per unit
> > > increases but not proportionately.
> > > An apples to apples comparison was made
> > > between an online printer and
> > > the current printer for both printing and
> > > mailing and the difference
> > > was pennies. That wasn't pennies per unit
> > > but for the whole run.
> > > As far as I am concerned, it is the
> > > editors who should have the most
> > > influence as to how and where their
> > > product is produced. They are the
> > > ones who must work with the printers and
> > > mailing houses on a regular
> > > basis.
> > > Bob Reid
> > > In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M.
> > > Eastern Daylight Time,
> > > [65]asajay at asajay.com
> > > writes:
> > > The last I heard (and I may have heard
> > > wrong), the board was interested
> > > in doing a -real- accounting comparison of
> > > printing costs, so for me,
> > > it's a wait and see kind of thing. I
> > > agree, if POCA was missing out on
> > > full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W
> > > then something is amiss.
> > > However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't
> > > account for all costs
> > > properly. I have more faith that the
> > > present board members will
> > > properly investigate and sort it out for
> > > everyone.
> > > I am on-board with electronic delivery,
> > > though I do admit it's nice to
> > > just sit back and read a paper copy too.
> > > It's also easier to hand-off
> > > to Sam so he can read it later. How do you
> > > really fix that?
> > > I would think (and I don't know), that the
> > > ClubExpress membership
> > > database might be able to include a
> > > "preference" as part of the
> > > member's profile or details. Just as I can
> > > set an address and phone
> > > number, if I could check a box for
> > > Electronic delivery or paper copies,
> > > or both, and select whatever I wanted for
> > > each item (Profiles versus
> > > Newsletter), that might be ideal.
> > > However, I'm also familiar with quantity
> > > discounting. It very well
> > > could be that it costs the same amount to
> > > print 500 as it does to print
> > > 50, or 10 (but I doubt it). I imagine
> > > those are considerations the
> > > board will look at as well.
> > > Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has
> > > claimed, I have heard (from more
> > > than one person), that Jack and Mike did
> > > not resign "because POCA
> > > changed printers;" it was over "control"
> > > of newsletter content that in
> > > essence fell outside the bounds of the
> > > by-laws. For a guy that appeared
> > > to try very hard to get everyone else to
> > > follow the by-laws (and it's
> > > unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt
> > > certainly didn't feel they
> > > applied to him.
> > > For the record, as I understand it, POCA
> > > has changed printers -twice-
> > > since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were
> > > related to the DeRykes) got out of
> > > the business. So the "family tie-in"
> > > previously eluded to, was not a
> > > factor in the resignations.
> > > Just my $1.50 (two cents adjusted for
> > > inflation) Asa Jay
> > > Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR,
> > > Retired & Shelley Marie Spokane,
> > > WA
> > > ******************************
> > > [66]http://w7tsc.org
> > > [67]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> > > Posted emails must not
> > > exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing
> > > list
> > > [68]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > > [69]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > > To manage your subscription (change email
> > > address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> > > use the links above.
> > > Members who post to this list grant
> > > license to the list to forward any
> > > message posted here to all past, current,
> > > or future members of the
> > > list. They also grant the list owner
> > > permission to maintain an archive
> > > or approve the archiving of list
> > > messages.
> > > To use a cliche, we're working on it.
> > > Most of what has been mentioned is in the
> > > pipeline. However, there are
> > > restrictions, particularly with the
> > > By-Laws as they currently stand.
> > > There are no provisions for multiple dues
> > > levels,
> > > particularly pertaining to how a member
> > > elects to have their club
> > > publications delivered, etc. That will
> > > take time as any changes or
> > > amendments must be approved by the whole
> > > membership.
> > > The consensus seems to be that the
> > > Profiles would continue as a print
> > > publication for all except foreign members
> > > who elect to receive it
> > > digitally.
> > > As far as printing is concerned, it is
> > > that first copy that is so
> > > expensive, it is the subsequent copies
> > > that bring down the per unit
> > > cost. So as fewer units are produced and
> > > shipped, the cost per unit
> > > increases but not proportionately.
> > > An apples to apples comparison was made
> > > between an online printer and
> > > the current printer for both printing and
> > > mailing and the difference
> > > was pennies. That wasn't pennies per unit
> > > but for the whole run.
> > > As far as I am concerned, it is the
> > > editors who should have the most
> > > influence as to how and where their
> > > product is produced. They are the
> > > ones who must work with the printers and
> > > mailing houses on a regular
> > > basis.
> > > Bob Reid
> > > In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M.
> > > Eastern Daylight Time,
> > > [70]asajay at asajay.com
> > > writes:
> > > The last I heard (and I may have heard
> > > wrong), the board was
> > > interested
> > > in doing a -real- accounting comparison of
> > > printing costs, so for
> > > me,
> > > it's a wait and see kind of thing. I
> > > agree, if POCA was missing out
> > > on
> > > full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W
> > > then something is amiss.
> > > However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't
> > > account for all costs
> > > properly. I have more faith that the
> > > present board members will
> > > properly investigate and sort it out for
> > > everyone.
> > > I am on-board with electronic delivery,
> > > though I do admit it's nice
> > > to
> > > just sit back and read a paper copy too.
> > > It's also easier to
> > > hand-off
> > > to Sam so he can read it later. How do you
> > > really fix that?
> > > I would think (and I don't know), that the
> > > ClubExpress membership
> > > database might be able to include a
> > > "preference" as part of the
> > > member's
> > > profile or details. Just as I can set an
> > > address and phone number,
> > > if I
> > > could check a box for Electronic delivery
> > > or paper copies, or both,
> > > and
> > > select whatever I wanted for each item
> > > (Profiles versus Newsletter),
> > > that might be ideal.
> > > However, I'm also familiar with quantity
> > > discounting. It very well
> > > could be that it costs the same amount to
> > > print 500 as it does to
> > > print
> > > 50, or 10 (but I doubt it). I imagine
> > > those are considerations the
> > > board will look at as well.
> > > Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has
> > > claimed, I have heard (from
> > > more
> > > than one person), that Jack and Mike did
> > > not resign "because POCA
> > > changed printers;" it was over "control"
> > > of newsletter content that
> > > in
> > > essence fell outside the bounds of the
> > > by-laws. For a guy that
> > > appeared
> > > to try very hard to get everyone else to
> > > follow the by-laws (and
> > > it's
> > > unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt
> > > certainly didn't feel they
> > > applied
> > > to him.
> > > For the record, as I understand it, POCA
> > > has changed printers
> > > -twice-
> > > since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were
> > > related to the DeRykes) got out
> > > of
> > > the business. So the "family tie-in"
> > > previously eluded to, was not
> > > a
> > > factor in the resignations.
> > > Just my $1.50 (two cents adjusted for
> > > inflation)
> > > Asa Jay
> > > Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR,
> > > Retired
> > > & Shelley Marie
> > > Spokane, WA
> > > ******************************
> > > [71]http://w7tsc.org
> > > [72]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Detomaso Email List is not managed by
> > > POCA
> > > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
> > > Megabytes
> > > DeTomaso mailing list
> > > [73]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > > [74]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > > To manage your subscription (change email
> > > address, unsubscribe,
> > > etc.) use the links above.
> > > Members who post to this list grant
> > > license to the list to forward
> > > any message posted here to all past,
> > > current, or future members of
> > > the list. They also grant the list owner
> > > permission to maintain an
> > > archive or approve the archiving of list
> > > messages.
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> > > Posted emails must not
> > > exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing
> > > list
> > > [75]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > > [76]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > > To manage your subscription (change email
> > > address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> > > use the links above.
> > > Members who post to this list grant
> > > license to the list to forward any
> > > message posted here to all past, current,
> > > or future members of the
> > > list. They also grant the list owner
> > > permission to maintain an archive
> > > or approve the archiving of list
> > > messages.
> > > ------------------------------
> > > Subject: Digest Footer
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
> > > Megabytes
> > > DeTomaso mailing list
> > > [77]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > > [78]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > > Members who post to this list grant
> > > license to the list to forward any
> > > message posted here to all past, current,
> > > or future members of the
> > > list. They also grant the list owner
> > > permission to maintain an archive
> > > or approve the archiving of list
> > > messages.
> > > ------------------------------
> > > End of DeTomaso Digest, Vol 146, Issue 20
> > > *****************************************
> > >
> > > References
> > >
> > > 1. [1]mailto:asajay at asajay.com
> > > 2. [2]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > > 3. [3]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > > 4. [4]mailto:request at server.detomasolist.com
> > > 5. [5]mailto:owner at server.detomasolist.com
> > > 6. [6]mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
> > > 7. [7]mailto:P6746 at aol.com
> > > 8. [8]mailto:asajay at asajay.com
> > > 9. [9]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > > 10.
> > > [10]mailto:sdxpj9k7caacwyvlamgw7uly.1471231663405 at email.android.com
> > > 11. [11]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > > 12. [12]mailto:asajay at asajay.com
> > > 13. [13]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > > 14. [14]mailto:asajay at asajay.com
> > > 15. [15]http://w7tsc.org/
> > > 16. [16]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
> > > 17. [17]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > > 18. [18]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > > 19. [19]mailto:asajay at asajay.com
> > > 20. [20]http://w7tsc.org/
> > > 21. [21]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
> > > 22. [22]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > > 23. [23]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > > 24. [24]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > > 25. [25]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > > 26. [26]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > > 27. [27]mailto:asajay at asajay.com
> > > 28. [28]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > > 29. [29]mailto:asajay at asajay.com
> > > 30. [30]http://w7tsc.org/
> > > 31. [31]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
> > > 32. [32]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > > 33. [33]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > > 34. [34]mailto:asajay at asajay.com
> > > 35. [35]http://w7tsc.org/
> > > 36. [36]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
> > > 37. [37]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > > 38. [38]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > > 39. [39]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > > 40. [40]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > > 41. [41]mailto:coxmichaelt at gmail.com
> > > 42. [42]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > > 43. [43]mailto:ynAnbzepC1U9QH+A_Q at mail.gmail.com
> > > 44. [44]mailto:edducati at mac.com
> > > 45. [45]http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
> > > 46.
> > >
> [46]http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-pantera-ha
> > > s-only-785-miles-to-its-name/109069/
> > > 47. [47]mailto:edducati at mac.com
> > > 48. [48]http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
> > > 49.
> > >
> [49]http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-pantera-ha
> > > s
> > > 50. [50]mailto:edducati at mac.com?
> > > 51. [51]http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
> > > 52.
> > >
> [52]http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-pantera-ha
> > > s-only-785-miles-to-its-name/109069/
> > > 53. [53]mailto:steve at snclocks.com
> > > 54. [54]mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
> > > 55. [55]mailto:P6746 at aol.com
> > > 56. [56]mailto:asajay at asajay.com
> > > 57. [57]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > > 58. [58]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com?
> > > 59. [59]mailto:P6746 at aol.com
> > > 60. [60]mailto:asajay at asajay.com
> > > 61. [61]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > > 62. [62]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > > 63. [63]mailto:asajay at asajay.com
> > > 64. [64]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > > 65. [65]mailto:asajay at asajay.com
> > > 66. [66]http://w7tsc.org/
> > > 67. [67]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
> > > 68. [68]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > > 69. [69]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > > 70. [70]mailto:asajay at asajay.com
> > > 71. [71]http://w7tsc.org/
> > > 72. [72]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
> > > 73. [73]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > > 74. [74]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > > 75. [75]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > > 76. [76]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > > 77. [77]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > > 78. [78]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > >
> > > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > >
> > >
> > > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> > > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> > > DeTomaso mailing list
> > > DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > > [79]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > >
> > > To manage your subscription (change email address,
> > > unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
> > >
> > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to
> > > forward any message posted here to all past, current, or
> > > future members of the list. They also grant the list owner
> > > permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving
> > > of list messages.
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> > > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> > > DeTomaso mailing list
> > > DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > > [80]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> > > use the links above.
> > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
> > > message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
> > > list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
> > > or approve the archiving of list messages.
> > >
> > > References
> > >
> > > 1. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
> > > 2. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > > 3. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > > 4. mailto:request at server.detomasolist.com
> > > 5. mailto:owner at server.detomasolist.com
> > > 6. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
> > > 7. mailto:P6746 at aol.com
> > > 8. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
> > > 9. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > > 10. mailto:sdxpj9k7caacwyvlamgw7uly.1471231663405 at email.android.com
> > > 11. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > > 12. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
> > > 13. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > > 14. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
> > > 15. http://w7tsc.org/
> > > 16. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
> > > 17. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > > 18. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > > 19. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
> > > 20. http://w7tsc.org/
> > > 21. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
> > > 22. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > > 23. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > > 24. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > > 25. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > > 26. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > > 27. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
> > > 28. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > > 29. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
> > > 30. http://w7tsc.org/
> > > 31. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
> > > 32. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > > 33. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > > 34. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
> > > 35. http://w7tsc.org/
> > > 36. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
> > > 37. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > > 38. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > > 39. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > > 40. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > > 41. mailto:coxmichaelt at gmail.com
> > > 42. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > > 43. mailto:ynAnbzepC1U9QH+A_Q at mail.gmail.com
> > > 44. mailto:edducati at mac.com
> > > 45. http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
> > > 46.
> http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-pantera-has-only-78
> 5-miles-to-its-name/109069/
> > > 47. mailto:edducati at mac.com
> > > 48. http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
> > > 49.
> http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-pantera-has
> > > 50. mailto:edducati at mac.com?
> > > 51. http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
> > > 52.
> http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-pantera-has-only-78
> 5-miles-to-its-name/109069/
> > > 53. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
> > > 54. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
> > > 55. mailto:P6746 at aol.com
> > > 56. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
> > > 57. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > > 58. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com?
> > > 59. mailto:P6746 at aol.com
> > > 60. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
> > > 61. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > > 62. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > > 63. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
> > > 64. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > > 65. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
> > > 66. http://w7tsc.org/
> > > 67. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
> > > 68. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > > 69. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > > 70. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
> > > 71. http://w7tsc.org/
> > > 72. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
> > > 73. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > > 74. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > > 75. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > > 76. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > > 77. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > > 78. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > > 79. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > > 80. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > > _______________________________________________
> > >
> > >
> > > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> > > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> > > DeTomaso mailing list
> > > DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > >
> > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> use the links above.
> > >
> > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list.
> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve
> the archiving of list messages.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
> > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >
> > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use
> the links above.
> >
> > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list.
> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve
> the archiving of list messages.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
-------------- next part --------------
Mike,
I concur with Laurie's and Marshall's points and look forward to an
explanation on this subject.
That will really help many of us who have been wondering, asking and
waiting.
Thank you!
Effie
Sent from Effie's iPad
On Aug 15, 2016, at 11:20 PM, marshallgsmith
<[1]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Hey Michael,
I think the best way to put this controversy to bed is if you or your
dad could speak about not being cooperative in regards to the the use
of another printer that supposedly afforded the club an $8,000 savings.
That really seems to be the only issue that continues this controversy
and I still haven't heard either of you discuss the allegation. I'm
sure your response will cut this thread for good and allow us all to
move on with the rebuilding of this great club.
Marshall Smith
President, San Diego Panteras
Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: Michael Haney <[2]paso750 at gmail.com>
Date: 8/15/16 10:36 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: 'Judith McCartney' <[3]jpoca2 at hotmail.com>, 'Effie Richards'
<[4]erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com>, 'Julian Kift'
<[5]julian_kift at hotmail.com>
Cc: [6]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com, 'laurie Basile'
<[7]laurieferrari at aol.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations
Thank you very much, Judy.
I really wish this thread would just die.
I know that this isn't the answer you're fishing for, but it'll have
to do
since it's the truth.
Nancy quit and took her associate (me) with her because she was
tired of
hearing from me all about Shortt's efforts to take over every aspect
of
POCA.
I didn't fight her decision because I was in turn tired of Shortt's
intimidation and bullying tactics. Frankly, being on the Board
wasn't fun
anymore and I was also very tired of Shortt's constant preening.
As a matter of record, I resigned from the Board BEFORE Profiles #3
even
went to the printer. I had nearly finished it and decided that I
didn't want
to let the POCA members down. I really didn't want to contribute any
more to
Shortt's regime, but my conscience won.
Even after I sent the magazine in, I still had to deal with Shortt.
He
decided to interfere with the printer, sent them a database with a
whole
bunch of problematic info and threaten nonpayment if he didn't get
preliminary proofs. How do I know this? I received a call while I
was at
work from the woman working in Allegra Printing's mail room. She
called
Shortt and he wouldn't help her with the database and ignored her
questions.
Having no one else to call, she called me. I in turn contacted Judy,
our
Membership Director, who fixed the problems that Shortt created.
Regarding Shortt's allegations of graft, if anyone can find a
connection
between my family and anyone who EVER worked at Allegra Printing in
Reno,
Nevada, (or indeed any of Allegra's branches) please let me know.
My Dad might respond as well, but he's been pretty busy caring for
my
SERIOUSLY ill Mom who was in the hospital for the last two weeks and
who
might finally be able to come back home in a couple more.
Now, can we finally put this "controversy" to rest?
Mike Haney
-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso [[8]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com]
On Behalf
Of Judith McCartney
Sent: Monday, August 15, 2016 8:44 PM
To: Effie Richards; Julian Kift
Cc: [9]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com; laurie Basile
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations
Mike Haney gave his resignation months way head of Jacks, two diff
reasons.
Judith McCartney, Membership Director & Fun Rally coordinator.
> From: [10]erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com
> Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 18:43:43 -0700
> To: [11]julian_kift at hotmail.com
> CC: [12]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com;
[13]laurieferrari at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations
>
> Julian these are the same questions some of us have had and have
been
waiting for a reply or statement. I'm willing to give the board some
time to
come up with one.
>
> Sent from Effie's iPad
>
> > On Aug 15, 2016, at 6:29 PM, Julian Kift
<[14]julian_kift at hotmail.com>
wrote:
> >
> > I have digested all the emails on this topic and to be honest
it still
> > doesn't sit well in my gut.
> >
> >
> > Presumably the BOD voted in favor of changing printers based
upon the
> > quotes presented. Did they not have all the facts and
> > if not why did they not question further? Did Jack have all
the facts
w
> > hen he resigned or were his and Mike Haney's resignations
simply an
> > outright stand against changing printer?
> >
> >
> > Why did Michael push to change printer if he knew there was
only
> > pennies between it?
> >
> >
> > Julian
> >
__________________________________________________________________
> >
> > From: DeTomaso <[15]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com>
on behalf of
> > marshall smith <[16]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
> > Sent: Monday, August 15, 2016 10:11 AM
> > To: [17]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com;
[18]laurieferrari at aol.com
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations
> >
> > I find it funny that three months after the Fun Rally we are
now
> > hearing that Shortt's bid for printing did not include
shipping.
Shortt
> > is a lot of things but a mistake like this...?
> > I was listening in on this meeting also and I know what I
heard.
> > Apparently, the board convinced 'some' members of this
so-called
> > discrepancy month's ago. Why wasn't this information, if it
exists,
> > relayed to ALL of us in a timely manner?
> > Marshall
> >
> > --------------------------------------------
> > On Mon, 8/15/16, Laurie Ferrari via DeTomaso
> > <[19]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations
> > To: [20]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > Date: Monday, August 15, 2016, 9:57 AM
> >
> > Dear AJ,
> >
> > I have always respected you and your
> > opinions but in this case you are
> > incorrect as far as the resignation of
> > Jack DeRyke. I was on the Board
> > of Directors' conference call where he was
> > asked to stay and he
> > adamantly refused to if the printer
> > changed. Jack's resignation was
> > specifically because of the change in
> > printer! You can go research
> > that phone conference call, or the minutes
> > of the meeting, as the facts
> > are saved. As far as Mike Haney's
> > resignation, that was done by his
> > Mrs. for their reasons which most likely
> > were aligned with their
> > parents.
> >
> > Laurie
> >
> > In a message dated 8/13/2016
> > 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,?
> > [1][21]asajay at asajay.com
> > writes:
> > The last? I heard (and I may have
> > heard wrong), the board was
> > interested
> > in doing a? -real- accounting
> > comparison of printing costs, so for
> > me,
> > it's a wait and? see kind of
> > thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing
> > out on
> > full-color? and paying $8,000 more
> > for B/W then something is amiss.?
> > However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt
> > didn't account for all costs
> > properly.? I? have more faith that
> > the present board members will
> > properly investigate? and sort it
> > out for everyone.
> > I am on-board with electronic
> > delivery,? though I do admit it's nice
> > to
> > just sit back and read a paper
> > copy? too.? It's also easier to
> > hand-off
> > to Sam so he can read it? later.?
> > How do you really fix that?
> > I would think (and I don't? know),
> > that the ClubExpress membership
> > database might be able to include
> > a? "preference" as part of the
> > member's
> > profile or details.? Just as I? can
> > set an address and phone number,
> > if I
> > could check a box for Electronic?
> > delivery or paper copies, or both,
> > and
> > select whatever I wanted for each?
> > item (Profiles versus
> > Newsletter),
> > that might be ideal.
> > However,? I'm also familiar with
> > quantity discounting.? It very well
> > could be? that it costs the same
> > amount to print 500 as it does to
> > print
> > 50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I
> > imagine those are considerations the
> > board will? look at as well.
> > Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie
> > has claimed, I have? heard (from
> > more
> > than one person), that Jack and
> > Mike did not resign? "because POCA
> > changed printers;" it was over
> > "control" of newsletter? content that
> > in
> > essence fell outside the bounds of
> > the by-laws.? For? a guy that
> > appeared
> > to try very hard to get everyone
> > else to follow the? by-laws (and
> > it's
> > unwritten code of ethics), Mr.
> > Shortt certainly didn't? feel they
> > applied
> > to him.
> > For the record, as I understand it,
> > POCA? has changed printers
> > -twice-
> > since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were
> > related? to the DeRykes) got out
> > of
> > the business.? So the "family
> > tie-in"? previously eluded to, was not
> > a
> > factor in the resignations.
> > Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted
> > for inflation)
> > Asa? Jay
> > Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt,
> > USAFR, Retired
> > &? Shelley? Mar
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: detomaso-request
<[22]detomaso-request at server.detomasolist.com>
> > To: detomaso <[23]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> > Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2016 9:00 am
> > Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 146, Issue
> > 20
> > Send DeTomaso mailing list submissions to
> > [2][24]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World
> > Wide Web, visit
> >
[3][25]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > or, via email, send a message with subject
> > or body 'help' to
> > detomaso-[4][26]request at server.detomasolist.com
> > You can reach the person managing the list
> > at
> > detomaso-[5][27]owner at server.detomasolist.com
> > When replying, please edit your Subject
> > line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of DeTomaso digest..."
> > Daily Detomaso List Digest
> > Today's Topics:
> > 1. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs.
> > electronic (marshallgsmith)
> > 2. Re: De Tomaso Pantera GTS on eBay!
> > again $250K!! (Michael Cox)
> > 3. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs.
> > electronic (Stephen)
> >
-------------------------------------------------------------------
> > ---
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 20:27:43 -0700
> > From: marshallgsmith <[6][28]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
> > To: [7][29]P6746 at aol.com, [8][30]asajay at asajay.com,
> > [9][31]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost,
> > paper vs. electronic
> > Message-ID:
> >
<[10][32]sdxpj9k7caacwyvlamgw7uly.1471231663405 at email.android.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> > I have a couple questions Bob:
> >> Calling this situation "multiple dues
> > levels" seems to be making the
> > issue too complex. There are some members
> > that are opting to not have
> > printed magazines mailed which should make
> > those members eligible for a
> > discount because of the savings.
> >> What is your estimate of the length
> > of time that it would take the
> > board to arrange for a vote of the
> > membership to change the bylaws to
> > allow for this discount?
> >> Who specifically made that
> > apples-to-apples comparison you refer to?
> >> I agree that the editors should have
> > the most influence ?on the
> > process. ?However, our editors of both
> > publications seem to have a hard
> > time reporting to the members about ANY
> > issues pertaining to the
> > publication's themselves. Might that
> > change in the near future or will
> > radio silence be the norm here?
> > Marshall Smith
> > Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone
> > -------- Original message --------
> > From: P6746--- via DeTomaso
<[11][33]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> > Date: 8/14/16 3:10 PM (GMT-08:00)
> > To: [12][34]asajay at asajay.com,
> > [13][35]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost,
> > paper vs. electronic
> > To use a cliche, we're working on it.?
> > Most of what has been mentioned is in the
> > pipeline.?? However, there
> > are
> > restrictions, particularly with the
> > By-Laws as they currently? stand.?
> > There
> > are no provisions for multiple dues
> > levels,? particularly pertaining to
> > how a
> > member elects to have their club?
> > publications delivered, etc.? That
> > will
> > take time as any changes or? amendments
> > must be approved by the whole
> > membership.
> > The consensus seems to be that the
> > Profiles would? continue as a print
> > publication for all except foreign members
> > who elect to? receive it
> > digitally.?
> > As far as printing is concerned, it is
> > that first copy that is? so
> > expensive, it is the subsequent copies
> > that bring down the per unit?
> > cost.? So as
> > fewer units are produced and shipped, the
> > cost per unit? increases but
> > not
> > proportionately.??
> > An apples to apples comparison was made
> > between an online? printer and
> > the
> > current printer for both printing and
> > mailing and the difference? was
> > pennies.? That wasn't pennies per unit but
> > for the whole run.?
> > As far as I am concerned, it is the
> > editors who should have? the most
> > influence as to how and where their
> > product is produced.? They are? the
> > ones who
> > must work with the printers and mailing
> > houses on a regular? basis.
> > Bob Reid?
> > In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M.
> > Eastern Daylight Time,?
> > [14][36]asajay at asajay.com
> > writes:
> > The last? I heard (and I may have heard
> > wrong), the board was
> > interested
> > in doing a? -real- accounting comparison
> > of printing costs, so for me,
> > it's a wait and? see kind of thing.? I
> > agree, if POCA was missing out
> > on
> > full-color? and paying $8,000 more for B/W
> > then something is amiss.?
> > However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt didn't
> > account for all costs
> > properly.? I? have more faith that the
> > present board members will
> > properly investigate? and sort it out for
> > everyone.
> > I am on-board with electronic delivery,?
> > though I do admit it's nice to
> > just sit back and read a paper copy? too.?
> > It's also easier to hand-off
> > to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do
> > you really fix that?
> > I would think (and I don't? know), that
> > the ClubExpress membership
> > database might be able to include a?
> > "preference" as part of the
> > member's
> > profile or details.? Just as I? can set an
> > address and phone number, if
> > I
> > could check a box for Electronic? delivery
> > or paper copies, or both,
> > and
> > select whatever I wanted for each? item
> > (Profiles versus Newsletter),
> > that might be ideal.
> > However,? I'm also familiar with quantity
> > discounting.? It very well
> > could be? that it costs the same amount to
> > print 500 as it does to
> > print
> > 50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I imagine
> > those are considerations the
> > board will? look at as well.
> > Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has
> > claimed, I have? heard (from
> > more
> > than one person), that Jack and Mike did
> > not resign? "because POCA
> > changed printers;" it was over "control"
> > of newsletter? content that in
> > essence fell outside the bounds of the
> > by-laws.? For? a guy that
> > appeared
> > to try very hard to get everyone else to
> > follow the? by-laws (and it's
> > unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt
> > certainly didn't? feel they
> > applied
> > to him.
> > For the record, as I understand it, POCA?
> > has changed printers -twice-
> > since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were
> > related? to the DeRykes) got out of
> > the business.? So the "family tie-in"?
> > previously eluded to, was not a
> > factor in the resignations.
> > Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted for
> > inflation)
> > Asa? Jay
> > Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR,
> > Retired
> > &? Shelley? Marie
> > Spokane,? WA
> > ******************************
> > [15][37]http://w7tsc.org
> > [16][38]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > Detomaso? Email List is not managed by
> > POCA
> > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5?
> > Megabytes
> > DeTomaso mailing? list
> > [17][39]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> >
[18][40]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > To? manage your subscription (change email
> > address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> > use
> > the? links above.
> > Members who post to this list grant
> > license to the list to? forward any
> > message posted here to all past, current,
> > or future members of the?
> > list. They
> > also grant the list owner permission to
> > maintain an archive or? approve
> > the
> > archiving of list? messages.
> > ?? To use a cliche, we're working on it.
> > ?? Most of what has been mentioned is in
> > the pipeline.? However, there
> > are
> > ?? restrictions, particularly with the
> > By-Laws as they currently stand.
> > ?? There are no provisions for multiple
> > dues levels,
> > ?? particularly pertaining to how a member
> > elects to have their club
> > ?? publications delivered, etc.? That will
> > take time as any changes or
> > ?? amendments must be approved by the
> > whole membership.
> > ?? The consensus seems to be that the
> > Profiles would continue as a
> > print
> > ?? publication for all except foreign
> > members who elect to receive it
> > ?? digitally.
> > ?? As far as printing is concerned, it is
> > that first copy that is so
> > ?? expensive, it is the subsequent copies
> > that bring down the per unit
> > ?? cost.? So as fewer units are produced
> > and shipped, the cost per unit
> > ?? increases but not proportionately.
> > ?? An apples to apples comparison was made
> > between an online printer
> > and
> > ?? the current printer for both printing
> > and mailing and the difference
> > ?? was pennies.? That wasn't pennies per
> > unit but for the whole run.
> > ?? As far as I am concerned, it is the
> > editors who should have the most
> > ?? influence as to how and where their
> > product is produced.? They are
> > the
> > ?? ones who must work with the printers
> > and mailing houses on a regular
> > ?? basis.
> > ?? Bob Reid
> > ?? In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24
> > P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> > ?? [19][41]asajay at asajay.com
> > writes:
> > ???? The last I heard (and I may have
> > heard wrong), the board was
> > ???? interested
> > ???? in doing a -real- accounting
> > comparison of printing costs, so for
> > ???? me,
> > ???? it's a wait and see kind of thing.? I
> > agree, if POCA was missing
> > out
> > ???? on
> > ???? full-color and paying $8,000 more for
> > B/W then something is amiss.
> > ???? However, I also believe Mr. Shortt
> > didn't account for all costs
> > ???? properly.? I have more faith that the
> > present board members will
> > ???? properly investigate and sort it out
> > for everyone.
> > ???? I am on-board with electronic
> > delivery, though I do admit it's
> > nice
> > ???? to
> > ???? just sit back and read a paper copy
> > too.? It's also easier to
> > ???? hand-off
> > ???? to Sam so he can read it later.? How
> > do you really fix that?
> > ???? I would think (and I don't know),
> > that the ClubExpress membership
> > ???? database might be able to include a
> > "preference" as part of the
> > ???? member's
> > ???? profile or details.? Just as I can
> > set an address and phone
> > number,
> > ???? if I
> > ???? could check a box for Electronic
> > delivery or paper copies, or
> > both,
> > ???? and
> > ???? select whatever I wanted for each
> > item (Profiles versus
> > Newsletter),
> > ???? that might be ideal.
> > ???? However, I'm also familiar with
> > quantity discounting.? It very
> > well
> > ???? could be that it costs the same
> > amount to print 500 as it does to
> > ???? print
> > ???? 50, or 10 (but I doubt it).? I
> > imagine those are considerations
> > the
> > ???? board will look at as well.
> > ???? Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie
> > has claimed, I have heard (from
> > ???? more
> > ???? than one person), that Jack and Mike
> > did not resign "because POCA
> > ???? changed printers;" it was over
> > "control" of newsletter content
> > that
> > ???? in
> > ???? essence fell outside the bounds of
> > the by-laws.? For a guy that
> > ???? appeared
> > ???? to try very hard to get everyone else
> > to follow the by-laws (and
> > ???? it's
> > ???? unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt
> > certainly didn't feel they
> > ???? applied
> > ???? to him.
> > ???? For the record, as I understand it,
> > POCA has changed printers
> > ???? -twice-
> > ???? since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were
> > related to the DeRykes) got
> > out
> > ???? of
> > ???? the business.? So the "family tie-in"
> > previously eluded to, was
> > not
> > ???? a
> > ???? factor in the resignations.
> > ???? Just my $1.50? (two cents adjusted
> > for inflation)
> > ???? Asa? Jay
> > ???? Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt,
> > USAFR, Retired
> > ???? &? Shelley Marie
> > ???? Spokane, WA
> > ???? ******************************
> > ???? [20][42]http://w7tsc.org
> > ???? [21][43]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
> > ????
> > _______________________________________________
> > ???? Detomaso Email List is not managed by
> > POCA
> > ???? Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
> > Megabytes
> > ???? DeTomaso mailing list
> > ???? [22][44]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > ????
[23][45]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > ???? To manage your subscription (change
> > email address, unsubscribe,
> > ???? etc.) use the links above.
> > ???? Members who post to this list grant
> > license to the list to forward
> > ???? any message posted here to all past,
> > current, or future members of
> > ???? the list. They also grant the list
> > owner permission to maintain an
> > ???? archive or approve the archiving of
> > list messages.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Detomaso Email List is not managed by
> > POCA
> > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
> > Megabytes
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > [24][46]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> >
[25][47]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > To manage your subscription (change email
> > address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> > use the links above.
> > Members who post to this list grant
> > license to the list to forward any
> > message posted here to all past, current,
> > or future members of the
> > list. They also grant the list owner
> > permission to maintain an archive
> > or approve the archiving of list
> > messages.
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > I have a couple questions Bob:
> >> Calling this situation "multiple dues
> > levels" seems to be making the
> > issue too complex. There are some members
> > that are opting to not have
> > printed magazines mailed which should make
> > those members eligible for a
> > discount because of the savings.
> >> What is your estimate of the length
> > of time that it would take the
> > board to arrange for a vote of the
> > membership to change the bylaws to
> > allow for this discount?
> >> Who specifically made that
> > apples-to-apples comparison you refer to?
> >> I agree that the editors should have
> > the most influence on the
> > process. However, our editors of both
> > publications seem to have a hard
> > time reporting to the members about ANY
> > issues pertaining to the
> > publication's themselves. Might that
> > change in the near future or will
> > radio silence be the norm here?
> > Marshall Smith
> > Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone
> > -------- Original message --------
> > From: P6746--- via DeTomaso
<[26][48]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> > Date: 8/14/16 3:10 PM (GMT-08:00)
> > To: [27][49]asajay at asajay.com,
> > [28][50]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost,
> > paper vs. electronic
> > To use a cliche, we're working on it.
> > Most of what has been mentioned is in the
> > pipeline. However, there
> > are
> > restrictions, particularly with the
> > By-Laws as they currently stand.
> > There
> > are no provisions for multiple dues
> > levels, particularly pertaining to
> > how a
> > member elects to have their club
> > publications delivered, etc. That
> > will
> > take time as any changes or amendments
> > must be approved by the whole
> > membership.
> > The consensus seems to be that the
> > Profiles would continue as a print
> > publication for all except foreign members
> > who elect to receive it
> > digitally.
> > As far as printing is concerned, it is
> > that first copy that is so
> > expensive, it is the subsequent copies
> > that bring down the per unit
> > cost. So as
> > fewer units are produced and shipped, the
> > cost per unit increases but
> > not
> > proportionately.
> > An apples to apples comparison was made
> > between an online printer and
> > the
> > current printer for both printing and
> > mailing and the difference was
> > pennies. That wasn't pennies per unit but
> > for the whole run.
> > As far as I am concerned, it is the
> > editors who should have the most
> > influence as to how and where their
> > product is produced. They are the
> > ones who
> > must work with the printers and mailing
> > houses on a regular basis.
> > Bob Reid
> > In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M.
> > Eastern Daylight Time,
> > [29][51]asajay at asajay.com
> > writes:
> > The last I heard (and I may have heard
> > wrong), the board was
> > interested
> > in doing a -real- accounting comparison of
> > printing costs, so for me,
> > it's a wait and see kind of thing. I
> > agree, if POCA was missing out
> > on
> > full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W
> > then something is amiss.
> > However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't
> > account for all costs
> > properly. I have more faith that the
> > present board members will
> > properly investigate and sort it out for
> > everyone.
> > I am on-board with electronic delivery,
> > though I do admit it's nice to
> > just sit back and read a paper copy too.
> > It's also easier to hand-off
> > to Sam so he can read it later. How do you
> > really fix that?
> > I would think (and I don't know), that the
> > ClubExpress membership
> > database might be able to include a
> > "preference" as part of the
> > member's
> > profile or details. Just as I can set an
> > address and phone number, if
> > I
> > could check a box for Electronic delivery
> > or paper copies, or both,
> > and
> > select whatever I wanted for each item
> > (Profiles versus Newsletter),
> > that might be ideal.
> > However, I'm also familiar with quantity
> > discounting. It very well
> > could be that it costs the same amount to
> > print 500 as it does to
> > print
> > 50, or 10 (but I doubt it). I imagine
> > those are considerations the
> > board will look at as well.
> > Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has
> > claimed, I have heard (from
> > more
> > than one person), that Jack and Mike did
> > not resign "because POCA
> > changed printers;" it was over "control"
> > of newsletter content that in
> > essence fell outside the bounds of the
> > by-laws. For a guy that
> > appeared
> > to try very hard to get everyone else to
> > follow the by-laws (and it's
> > unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt
> > certainly didn't feel they
> > applied
> > to him.
> > For the record, as I understand it, POCA
> > has changed printers -twice-
> > since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were
> > related to the DeRykes) got out of
> > the business. So the "family tie-in"
> > previously eluded to, was not a
> > factor in the resignations.
> > Just my $1.50 (two cents adjusted for
> > inflation)
> > Asa Jay
> > Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR,
> > Retired
> > & Shelley Marie
> > Spokane, WA
> > ******************************
> > [30][52]http://w7tsc.org
> > [31][53]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > Detomaso Email List is not managed by
> > POCA
> > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
> > Megabytes
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > [32][54]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> >
[33][55]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > To manage your subscription (change email
> > address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> > use
> > the links above.
> > Members who post to this list grant
> > license to the list to forward any
> > message posted here to all past, current,
> > or future members of the
> > list. They
> > also grant the list owner permission to
> > maintain an archive or approve
> > the
> > archiving of list messages.
> > To use a cliche, we're working on it.
> > Most of what has been mentioned is in the
> > pipeline. However, there
> > are
> > restrictions, particularly with the
> > By-Laws as they currently stand.
> > There are no provisions for multiple dues
> > levels,
> > particularly pertaining to how a member
> > elects to have their club
> > publications delivered, etc. That will
> > take time as any changes or
> > amendments must be approved by the whole
> > membership.
> > The consensus seems to be that the
> > Profiles would continue as a
> > print
> > publication for all except foreign members
> > who elect to receive it
> > digitally.
> > As far as printing is concerned, it is
> > that first copy that is so
> > expensive, it is the subsequent copies
> > that bring down the per unit
> > cost. So as fewer units are produced and
> > shipped, the cost per unit
> > increases but not proportionately.
> > An apples to apples comparison was made
> > between an online printer
> > and
> > the current printer for both printing and
> > mailing and the difference
> > was pennies. That wasn't pennies per unit
> > but for the whole run.
> > As far as I am concerned, it is the
> > editors who should have the most
> > influence as to how and where their
> > product is produced. They are
> > the
> > ones who must work with the printers and
> > mailing houses on a regular
> > basis.
> > Bob Reid
> > In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M.
> > Eastern Daylight Time,
> > [34][56]asajay at asajay.com
> > writes:
> > The last I heard (and I may have heard
> > wrong), the board was
> > interested
> > in doing a -real- accounting comparison of
> > printing costs, so for
> > me,
> > it's a wait and see kind of thing. I
> > agree, if POCA was missing
> > out
> > on
> > full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W
> > then something is amiss.
> > However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't
> > account for all costs
> > properly. I have more faith that the
> > present board members will
> > properly investigate and sort it out for
> > everyone.
> > I am on-board with electronic delivery,
> > though I do admit it's
> > nice
> > to
> > just sit back and read a paper copy too.
> > It's also easier to
> > hand-off
> > to Sam so he can read it later. How do you
> > really fix that?
> > I would think (and I don't know), that the
> > ClubExpress membership
> > database might be able to include a
> > "preference" as part of the
> > member's
> > profile or details. Just as I can set an
> > address and phone
> > number,
> > if I
> > could check a box for Electronic delivery
> > or paper copies, or
> > both,
> > and
> > select whatever I wanted for each item
> > (Profiles versus
> > Newsletter),
> > that might be ideal.
> > However, I'm also familiar with quantity
> > discounting. It very
> > well
> > could be that it costs the same amount to
> > print 500 as it does to
> > print
> > 50, or 10 (but I doubt it). I imagine
> > those are considerations
> > the
> > board will look at as well.
> > Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has
> > claimed, I have heard (from
> > more
> > than one person), that Jack and Mike did
> > not resign "because POCA
> > changed printers;" it was over "control"
> > of newsletter content
> > that
> > in
> > essence fell outside the bounds of the
> > by-laws. For a guy that
> > appeared
> > to try very hard to get everyone else to
> > follow the by-laws (and
> > it's
> > unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt
> > certainly didn't feel they
> > applied
> > to him.
> > For the record, as I understand it, POCA
> > has changed printers
> > -twice-
> > since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were
> > related to the DeRykes) got
> > out
> > of
> > the business. So the "family tie-in"
> > previously eluded to, was
> > not
> > a
> > factor in the resignations.
> > Just my $1.50 (two cents adjusted for
> > inflation)
> > Asa Jay
> > Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR,
> > Retired
> > & Shelley Marie
> > Spokane, WA
> > ******************************
> > [35][57]http://w7tsc.org
> > [36][58]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > Detomaso Email List is not managed by
> > POCA
> > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
> > Megabytes
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > [37][59]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> >
[38][60]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > To manage your subscription (change email
> > address, unsubscribe,
> > etc.) use the links above.
> > Members who post to this list grant
> > license to the list to forward
> > any message posted here to all past,
> > current, or future members of
> > the list. They also grant the list owner
> > permission to maintain an
> > archive or approve the archiving of list
> > messages.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Detomaso Email List is not managed by
> > POCA
> > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
> > Megabytes
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > [39][61]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> >
[40][62]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > To manage your subscription (change email
> > address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> > use the links above.
> > Members who post to this list grant
> > license to the list to forward any
> > message posted here to all past, current,
> > or future members of the
> > list. They also grant the list owner
> > permission to maintain an archive
> > or approve the archiving of list
> > messages.
> > ------------------------------
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 20:56:45 -0700
> > From: Michael Cox <[41][63]coxmichaelt at gmail.com>
> > To: [42][64]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] De Tomaso Pantera
> > GTS on eBay! again $250K!!
> > Message-ID:
> >
<CAMPkPf3HQcqg5vLxgjpJP=7z=UBbrVs=[43][65]ynAnbzepC1U9QH+A_Q at mail.gm
ail
> > .com
> >>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >> From: Ed Mendez <[44][66]edducati at mac.com>
> >> Subject: [DeTomaso] De Tomaso Pantera
> > GTS on eBay! again $250K!!
> >>
> >> Hi! I found this on eBay and thought
> > you might like it! Check it out
> > now! De Tomaso:
> >> Other Pantera GTS [45][67]http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
> > These guys found that ad too. :^)
> >
[46][68]http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-pan
ter
> > a-ha
> > s-only-785-miles-to-its-name/109069/
> > --michael cox
> > -------------- next part --------------
> >> From: Ed Mendez <[1][47][69]edducati at mac.com>
> >> Subject: [DeTomaso] De Tomaso Pantera
> > GTS on eBay! again $250K!!
> >> A
> >> Hi! I found this on eBay and thought
> > you might like it! Check it out
> > now!A De Tomaso:
> >> Other Pantera GTSA [2][48][70]http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
> > These guys found that ad too. A :^)
> >
[3][49][71]http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-
pan
> > tera
> > -has
> > -only-785-miles-to-its-name/109069/
> > A A --michael cox
> > References
> > 1. [50][72]mailto:edducati at mac.com
> > 2. [51][73]http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
> > 3.
> >
[52][74]http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-pan
ter
> > a-ha
> > s-only-785-miles-to-its-name/109069/
> > ------------------------------
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 08:05:15 -0700
> > From: "Stephen" <[53][75]steve at snclocks.com>
> > To: "'marshallgsmith'"
<[54][76]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>,
> > <[55][77]P6746 at aol.com>,
> > <[56][78]asajay at asajay.com>,
> > <[57][79]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost,
> > paper vs. electronic
> > Message-ID:
> > <[80]004701d1f706$6ead4a50$4c07def0$@snclocks.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> > Having been on Boards before - I'd suggest
> > the current Board deserves
> > some time to catch their breath and
> > recover from the situation they
> > have recently been through. It is amazing
> > how much time something like
> > this takes - and I suspect everyone on the
> > Board would like to catch up
> > on all the things they have let slide
> > while coping with the removal of
> > a president and all the animosity and
> > e-mails the whole mess generated.
> > It's so easy to ask questions - but takes
> > a lot more time to figure out
> > how to do everything asked below. For now,
> > let's just let the Board
> > recover and slowly get some of the loose
> > ends taken care of.
> > Stephen Nelson
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: DeTomaso
> > [[58][81]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com]
> > On
> > Behalf Of marshallgsmith
> > Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2016 8:28 PM
> > To: [59][82]P6746 at aol.com; [60][83]asajay at asajay.com;
> > [61][84]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost,
> > paper vs. electronic
> > I have a couple questions Bob:
> >> Calling this situation "multiple dues
> > levels" seems to be making the
> > issue too complex. There are some members
> > that are opting to not have
> > printed magazines mailed which should make
> > those members eligible for a
> > discount because of the savings.
> >> What is your estimate of the length
> > of time that it would take the
> > board to arrange for a vote of the
> > membership to change the bylaws to
> > allow for this discount?
> >> Who specifically made that
> > apples-to-apples comparison you refer to?
> >> I agree that the editors should have
> > the most influence on the
> > process. However, our editors of both
> > publications seem to have a hard
> > time reporting to the members about ANY
> > issues pertaining to the
> > publication's themselves. Might that
> > change in the near future or will
> > radio silence be the norm here?
> > Marshall Smith
> > Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone
> > -------- Original message --------
> > From: P6746--- via DeTomaso
<[62][85]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> > Date: 8/14/16 3:10 PM (GMT-08:00)
> > To: [63][86]asajay at asajay.com,
> > [64][87]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost,
> > paper vs. electronic
> > To use a cliche, we're working on it.
> > Most of what has been mentioned is in the
> > pipeline. However, there are
> > restrictions, particularly with the
> > By-Laws as they currently stand.
> > There are no provisions for multiple dues
> > levels, particularly
> > pertaining to how a member elects to have
> > their club publications
> > delivered, etc. That will take time as any
> > changes or amendments must
> > be approved by the whole membership.
> > The consensus seems to be that the
> > Profiles would continue as a print
> > publication for all except foreign members
> > who elect to receive it
> > digitally.
> > As far as printing is concerned, it is
> > that first copy that is so
> > expensive, it is the subsequent copies
> > that bring down the per unit
> > cost. So as fewer units are produced and
> > shipped, the cost per unit
> > increases but not proportionately.
> > An apples to apples comparison was made
> > between an online printer and
> > the current printer for both printing and
> > mailing and the difference
> > was pennies. That wasn't pennies per unit
> > but for the whole run.
> > As far as I am concerned, it is the
> > editors who should have the most
> > influence as to how and where their
> > product is produced. They are the
> > ones who must work with the printers and
> > mailing houses on a regular
> > basis.
> > Bob Reid
> > In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M.
> > Eastern Daylight Time,
> > [65][88]asajay at asajay.com
> > writes:
> > The last I heard (and I may have heard
> > wrong), the board was interested
> > in doing a -real- accounting comparison of
> > printing costs, so for me,
> > it's a wait and see kind of thing. I
> > agree, if POCA was missing out on
> > full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W
> > then something is amiss.
> > However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't
> > account for all costs
> > properly. I have more faith that the
> > present board members will
> > properly investigate and sort it out for
> > everyone.
> > I am on-board with electronic delivery,
> > though I do admit it's nice to
> > just sit back and read a paper copy too.
> > It's also easier to hand-off
> > to Sam so he can read it later. How do you
> > really fix that?
> > I would think (and I don't know), that the
> > ClubExpress membership
> > database might be able to include a
> > "preference" as part of the
> > member's profile or details. Just as I can
> > set an address and phone
> > number, if I could check a box for
> > Electronic delivery or paper copies,
> > or both, and select whatever I wanted for
> > each item (Profiles versus
> > Newsletter), that might be ideal.
> > However, I'm also familiar with quantity
> > discounting. It very well
> > could be that it costs the same amount to
> > print 500 as it does to print
> > 50, or 10 (but I doubt it). I imagine
> > those are considerations the
> > board will look at as well.
> > Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has
> > claimed, I have heard (from more
> > than one person), that Jack and Mike did
> > not resign "because POCA
> > changed printers;" it was over "control"
> > of newsletter content that in
> > essence fell outside the bounds of the
> > by-laws. For a guy that appeared
> > to try very hard to get everyone else to
> > follow the by-laws (and it's
> > unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt
> > certainly didn't feel they
> > applied to him.
> > For the record, as I understand it, POCA
> > has changed printers -twice-
> > since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were
> > related to the DeRykes) got out of
> > the business. So the "family tie-in"
> > previously eluded to, was not a
> > factor in the resignations.
> > Just my $1.50 (two cents adjusted for
> > inflation) Asa Jay
> > Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR,
> > Retired & Shelley Marie Spokane,
> > WA
> > ******************************
> > [66][89]http://w7tsc.org
> > [67][90]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> > Posted emails must not
> > exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing
> > list
> > [68][91]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> >
[69][92]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > To manage your subscription (change email
> > address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> > use the links above.
> > Members who post to this list grant
> > license to the list to forward any
> > message posted here to all past, current,
> > or future members of the
> > list. They also grant the list owner
> > permission to maintain an archive
> > or approve the archiving of list
> > messages.
> > To use a cliche, we're working on it.
> > Most of what has been mentioned is in the
> > pipeline. However, there are
> > restrictions, particularly with the
> > By-Laws as they currently stand.
> > There are no provisions for multiple dues
> > levels,
> > particularly pertaining to how a member
> > elects to have their club
> > publications delivered, etc. That will
> > take time as any changes or
> > amendments must be approved by the whole
> > membership.
> > The consensus seems to be that the
> > Profiles would continue as a print
> > publication for all except foreign members
> > who elect to receive it
> > digitally.
> > As far as printing is concerned, it is
> > that first copy that is so
> > expensive, it is the subsequent copies
> > that bring down the per unit
> > cost. So as fewer units are produced and
> > shipped, the cost per unit
> > increases but not proportionately.
> > An apples to apples comparison was made
> > between an online printer and
> > the current printer for both printing and
> > mailing and the difference
> > was pennies. That wasn't pennies per unit
> > but for the whole run.
> > As far as I am concerned, it is the
> > editors who should have the most
> > influence as to how and where their
> > product is produced. They are the
> > ones who must work with the printers and
> > mailing houses on a regular
> > basis.
> > Bob Reid
> > In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M.
> > Eastern Daylight Time,
> > [70][93]asajay at asajay.com
> > writes:
> > The last I heard (and I may have heard
> > wrong), the board was
> > interested
> > in doing a -real- accounting comparison of
> > printing costs, so for
> > me,
> > it's a wait and see kind of thing. I
> > agree, if POCA was missing out
> > on
> > full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W
> > then something is amiss.
> > However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't
> > account for all costs
> > properly. I have more faith that the
> > present board members will
> > properly investigate and sort it out for
> > everyone.
> > I am on-board with electronic delivery,
> > though I do admit it's nice
> > to
> > just sit back and read a paper copy too.
> > It's also easier to
> > hand-off
> > to Sam so he can read it later. How do you
> > really fix that?
> > I would think (and I don't know), that the
> > ClubExpress membership
> > database might be able to include a
> > "preference" as part of the
> > member's
> > profile or details. Just as I can set an
> > address and phone number,
> > if I
> > could check a box for Electronic delivery
> > or paper copies, or both,
> > and
> > select whatever I wanted for each item
> > (Profiles versus Newsletter),
> > that might be ideal.
> > However, I'm also familiar with quantity
> > discounting. It very well
> > could be that it costs the same amount to
> > print 500 as it does to
> > print
> > 50, or 10 (but I doubt it). I imagine
> > those are considerations the
> > board will look at as well.
> > Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has
> > claimed, I have heard (from
> > more
> > than one person), that Jack and Mike did
> > not resign "because POCA
> > changed printers;" it was over "control"
> > of newsletter content that
> > in
> > essence fell outside the bounds of the
> > by-laws. For a guy that
> > appeared
> > to try very hard to get everyone else to
> > follow the by-laws (and
> > it's
> > unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt
> > certainly didn't feel they
> > applied
> > to him.
> > For the record, as I understand it, POCA
> > has changed printers
> > -twice-
> > since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were
> > related to the DeRykes) got out
> > of
> > the business. So the "family tie-in"
> > previously eluded to, was not
> > a
> > factor in the resignations.
> > Just my $1.50 (two cents adjusted for
> > inflation)
> > Asa Jay
> > Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR,
> > Retired
> > & Shelley Marie
> > Spokane, WA
> > ******************************
> > [71][94]http://w7tsc.org
> > [72][95]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > Detomaso Email List is not managed by
> > POCA
> > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
> > Megabytes
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > [73][96]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> >
[74][97]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > To manage your subscription (change email
> > address, unsubscribe,
> > etc.) use the links above.
> > Members who post to this list grant
> > license to the list to forward
> > any message posted here to all past,
> > current, or future members of
> > the list. They also grant the list owner
> > permission to maintain an
> > archive or approve the archiving of list
> > messages.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> > Posted emails must not
> > exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing
> > list
> > [75][98]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> >
[76][99]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > To manage your subscription (change email
> > address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> > use the links above.
> > Members who post to this list grant
> > license to the list to forward any
> > message posted here to all past, current,
> > or future members of the
> > list. They also grant the list owner
> > permission to maintain an archive
> > or approve the archiving of list
> > messages.
> > ------------------------------
> > Subject: Digest Footer
> > _______________________________________________
> > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
> > Megabytes
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > [77][100]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> >
[78][101]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > Members who post to this list grant
> > license to the list to forward any
> > message posted here to all past, current,
> > or future members of the
> > list. They also grant the list owner
> > permission to maintain an archive
> > or approve the archiving of list
> > messages.
> > ------------------------------
> > End of DeTomaso Digest, Vol 146, Issue 20
> > *****************************************
> >
> > References
> >
> > 1. [1][102]mailto:asajay at asajay.com
> > 2. [2][103]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > 3.
[3][104]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > 4. [4][105]mailto:request at server.detomasolist.com
> > 5. [5][106]mailto:owner at server.detomasolist.com
> > 6. [6][107]mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
> > 7. [7][108]mailto:P6746 at aol.com
> > 8. [8][109]mailto:asajay at asajay.com
> > 9. [9][110]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > 10.
> >
[10][111]mailto:sdxpj9k7caacwyvlamgw7uly.1471231663405 at email.android
.com
> > 11. [11][112]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > 12. [12][113]mailto:asajay at asajay.com
> > 13. [13][114]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > 14. [14][115]mailto:asajay at asajay.com
> > 15. [15][116]http://w7tsc.org/
> > 16. [16][117]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
> > 17. [17][118]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > 18.
[18][119]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > 19. [19][120]mailto:asajay at asajay.com
> > 20. [20][121]http://w7tsc.org/
> > 21. [21][122]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
> > 22. [22][123]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > 23.
[23][124]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > 24. [24][125]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > 25.
[25][126]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > 26. [26][127]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > 27. [27][128]mailto:asajay at asajay.com
> > 28. [28][129]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > 29. [29][130]mailto:asajay at asajay.com
> > 30. [30][131]http://w7tsc.org/
> > 31. [31][132]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
> > 32. [32][133]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > 33.
[33][134]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > 34. [34][135]mailto:asajay at asajay.com
> > 35. [35][136]http://w7tsc.org/
> > 36. [36][137]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
> > 37. [37][138]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > 38.
[38][139]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > 39. [39][140]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > 40.
[40][141]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > 41. [41][142]mailto:coxmichaelt at gmail.com
> > 42. [42][143]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > 43. [43][144]mailto:ynAnbzepC1U9QH+A_Q at mail.gmail.com
> > 44. [44][145]mailto:edducati at mac.com
> > 45. [45][146]http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
> > 46.
> >
[46][147]http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-pa
ntera-ha
> > s-only-785-miles-to-its-name/109069/
> > 47. [47][148]mailto:edducati at mac.com
> > 48. [48][149]http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
> > 49.
> >
[49][150]http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-pa
ntera-ha
> > s
> > 50. [50][151]mailto:edducati at mac.com?
> > 51. [51][152]http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
> > 52.
> >
[52][153]http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-pa
ntera-ha
> > s-only-785-miles-to-its-name/109069/
> > 53. [53][154]mailto:steve at snclocks.com
> > 54. [54][155]mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
> > 55. [55][156]mailto:P6746 at aol.com
> > 56. [56][157]mailto:asajay at asajay.com
> > 57. [57][158]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > 58.
[58][159]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com?
> > 59. [59][160]mailto:P6746 at aol.com
> > 60. [60][161]mailto:asajay at asajay.com
> > 61. [61][162]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > 62. [62][163]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > 63. [63][164]mailto:asajay at asajay.com
> > 64. [64][165]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > 65. [65][166]mailto:asajay at asajay.com
> > 66. [66][167]http://w7tsc.org/
> > 67. [67][168]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
> > 68. [68][169]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > 69.
[69][170]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > 70. [70][171]mailto:asajay at asajay.com
> > 71. [71][172]http://w7tsc.org/
> > 72. [72][173]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
> > 73. [73][174]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > 74.
[74][175]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > 75. [75][176]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > 76.
[76][177]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > 77. [77][178]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > 78.
[78][179]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >
> > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
> > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > [180]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> >
[79][181]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >
> > To manage your subscription (change email address,
> > unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
> >
> > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to
> > forward any message posted here to all past, current, or
> > future members of the list. They also grant the list owner
> > permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving
> > of list messages.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > [182]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> >
[80][183]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > To manage your subscription (change email address,
unsubscribe, etc.)
> > use the links above.
> > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to
forward any
> > message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
the
> > list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
archive
> > or approve the archiving of list messages.
> >
> > References
> >
> > 1. [184]mailto:asajay at asajay.com
> > 2. [185]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > 3.
[186]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > 4. [187]mailto:request at server.detomasolist.com
> > 5. [188]mailto:owner at server.detomasolist.com
> > 6. [189]mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
> > 7. [190]mailto:P6746 at aol.com
> > 8. [191]mailto:asajay at asajay.com
> > 9. [192]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > 10.
[193]mailto:sdxpj9k7caacwyvlamgw7uly.1471231663405 at email.android.com
> > 11. [194]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > 12. [195]mailto:asajay at asajay.com
> > 13. [196]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > 14. [197]mailto:asajay at asajay.com
> > 15. [198]http://w7tsc.org/
> > 16. [199]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
> > 17. [200]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > 18.
[201]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > 19. [202]mailto:asajay at asajay.com
> > 20. [203]http://w7tsc.org/
> > 21. [204]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
> > 22. [205]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > 23.
[206]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > 24. [207]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > 25.
[208]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > 26. [209]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > 27. [210]mailto:asajay at asajay.com
> > 28. [211]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > 29. [212]mailto:asajay at asajay.com
> > 30. [213]http://w7tsc.org/
> > 31. [214]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
> > 32. [215]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > 33.
[216]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > 34. [217]mailto:asajay at asajay.com
> > 35. [218]http://w7tsc.org/
> > 36. [219]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
> > 37. [220]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > 38.
[221]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > 39. [222]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > 40.
[223]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > 41. [224]mailto:coxmichaelt at gmail.com
> > 42. [225]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > 43. [226]mailto:ynAnbzepC1U9QH+A_Q at mail.gmail.com
> > 44. [227]mailto:edducati at mac.com
> > 45. [228]http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
> > 46.
[229]http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-panter
a-has-only-78
5-miles-to-its-name/109069/
> > 47. [230]mailto:edducati at mac.com
> > 48. [231]http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
> > 49.
[232]http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-panter
a-has
> > 50. [233]mailto:edducati at mac.com?
> > 51. [234]http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
> > 52.
[235]http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-panter
a-has-only-78
5-miles-to-its-name/109069/
> > 53. [236]mailto:steve at snclocks.com
> > 54. [237]mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
> > 55. [238]mailto:P6746 at aol.com
> > 56. [239]mailto:asajay at asajay.com
> > 57. [240]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > 58. [241]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com?
> > 59. [242]mailto:P6746 at aol.com
> > 60. [243]mailto:asajay at asajay.com
> > 61. [244]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > 62. [245]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > 63. [246]mailto:asajay at asajay.com
> > 64. [247]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > 65. [248]mailto:asajay at asajay.com
> > 66. [249]http://w7tsc.org/
> > 67. [250]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
> > 68. [251]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > 69.
[252]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > 70. [253]mailto:asajay at asajay.com
> > 71. [254]http://w7tsc.org/
> > 72. [255]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
> > 73. [256]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > 74.
[257]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > 75. [258]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > 76.
[259]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > 77. [260]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > 78.
[261]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > 79.
[262]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > 80.
[263]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
> > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > [264]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > [265]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >
> > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
etc.)
use the links above.
> >
> > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to
forward any
message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
list.
They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or
approve
the archiving of list messages.
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [266]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> [267]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
etc.) use
the links above.
>
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
any
message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
list.
They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or
approve
the archiving of list messages.
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
DeTomaso mailing list
[268]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
[269]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
etc.) use the links above.
Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
References
1. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
2. mailto:paso750 at gmail.com
3. mailto:jpoca2 at hotmail.com
4. mailto:erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com
5. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
6. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
7. mailto:laurieferrari at aol.com
8. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
9. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
10. mailto:erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com
11. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
12. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
13. mailto:laurieferrari at aol.com
14. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
15. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
16. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
17. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
18. mailto:laurieferrari at aol.com
19. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
20. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
21. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
22. mailto:detomaso-request at server.detomasolist.com
23. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
24. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
25. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
26. mailto:request at server.detomasolist.com
27. mailto:owner at server.detomasolist.com
28. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
29. mailto:P6746 at aol.com
30. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
31. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
32. mailto:sdxpj9k7caacwyvlamgw7uly.1471231663405 at email.android.com
33. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
34. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
35. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
36. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
37. http://w7tsc.org/
38. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
39. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
40. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
41. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
42. http://w7tsc.org/
43. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
44. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
45. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
46. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
47. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
48. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
49. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
50. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
51. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
52. http://w7tsc.org/
53. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
54. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
55. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
56. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
57. http://w7tsc.org/
58. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
59. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
60. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
61. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
62. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
63. mailto:coxmichaelt at gmail.com
64. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
65. mailto:ynAnbzepC1U9QH+A_Q at mail.gmail
66. mailto:edducati at mac.com
67. http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
68. http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-panter
69. mailto:edducati at mac.com
70. http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
71. http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-pan
72. mailto:edducati at mac.com
73. http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
74. http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-panter
75. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
76. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
77. mailto:P6746 at aol.com
78. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
79. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
80. mailto:004701d1f706$6ead4a50$4c07def0$@snclocks.com
81. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
82. mailto:P6746 at aol.com
83. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
84. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
85. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
86. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
87. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
88. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
89. http://w7tsc.org/
90. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
91. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
92. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
93. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
94. http://w7tsc.org/
95. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
96. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
97. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
98. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
99. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
100. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
101. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
102. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
103. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
104. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
105. mailto:request at server.detomasolist.com
106. mailto:owner at server.detomasolist.com
107. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
108. mailto:P6746 at aol.com
109. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
110. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
111. mailto:sdxpj9k7caacwyvlamgw7uly.1471231663405 at email.android.com
112. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
113. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
114. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
115. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
116. http://w7tsc.org/
117. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
118. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
119. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
120. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
121. http://w7tsc.org/
122. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
123. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
124. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
125. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
126. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
127. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
128. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
129. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
130. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
131. http://w7tsc.org/
132. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
133. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
134. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
135. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
136. http://w7tsc.org/
137. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
138. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
139. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
140. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
141. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
142. mailto:coxmichaelt at gmail.com
143. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
144. mailto:ynAnbzepC1U9QH+A_Q at mail.gmail.com
145. mailto:edducati at mac.com
146. http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
147. http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-pantera-ha
148. mailto:edducati at mac.com
149. http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
150. http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-pantera-ha
151. mailto:edducati at mac.com
152. http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
153. http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-pantera-ha
154. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
155. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
156. mailto:P6746 at aol.com
157. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
158. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
159. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
160. mailto:P6746 at aol.com
161. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
162. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
163. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
164. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
165. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
166. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
167. http://w7tsc.org/
168. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
169. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
170. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
171. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
172. http://w7tsc.org/
173. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
174. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
175. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
176. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
177. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
178. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
179. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
180. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
181. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
182. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
183. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
184. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
185. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
186. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
187. mailto:request at server.detomasolist.com
188. mailto:owner at server.detomasolist.com
189. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
190. mailto:P6746 at aol.com
191. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
192. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
193. mailto:sdxpj9k7caacwyvlamgw7uly.1471231663405 at email.android.com
194. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
195. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
196. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
197. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
198. http://w7tsc.org/
199. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
200. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
201. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
202. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
203. http://w7tsc.org/
204. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
205. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
206. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
207. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
208. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
209. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
210. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
211. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
212. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
213. http://w7tsc.org/
214. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
215. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
216. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
217. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
218. http://w7tsc.org/
219. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
220. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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222. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
223. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
224. mailto:coxmichaelt at gmail.com
225. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
226. mailto:ynAnbzepC1U9QH+A_Q at mail.gmail.com
227. mailto:edducati at mac.com
228. http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
229. http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-pantera-has-only-78
230. mailto:edducati at mac.com
231. http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
232. http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-pantera-has
233. mailto:edducati at mac.com
234. http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
235. http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-pantera-has-only-78
236. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
237. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
238. mailto:P6746 at aol.com
239. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
240. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
241. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
242. mailto:P6746 at aol.com
243. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
244. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
245. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
246. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
247. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
248. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
249. http://w7tsc.org/
250. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
251. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
252. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
253. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
254. http://w7tsc.org/
255. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
256. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
257. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
258. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
259. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
260. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
261. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
262. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
263. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
264. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
265. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
266. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
267. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
268. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
269. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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