[DeTomaso] resignations

Ed Mendez edducati at mac.com
Tue Aug 16 00:42:16 EDT 2016


150% Bill - especially when you have nothing to lie about.

On Aug 15, 2016, at 07:01 PM, bill <bill at incendium.com> wrote:

"If you tell the truth, you never have to remember what you said",,,,

And it does not take an hour, a day , or a week to clarify.......

Cheers

Bill Moore

Calgary

-------- Original message --------
From: Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com>
Date: 2016-08-15 7:29 PM (GMT-07:00)
To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com, laurieferrari at aol.com, marshall
smith <marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations

I have digested all the emails on this topic and to be honest it still
doesn't sit well in my gut.
Presumably the BOD voted in favor of changing printers based upon the
quotes presented. Did they not have all the facts and if not why did
they not question further? Did Jack have all the facts when he resigned
or were his and Mike Haney's resignations simply an outright stand
against changing printer?
Why did Michael push to change printer if he knew there was only
pennies between it?
Julian
________________________________
From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of
marshall smith <marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Monday, August 15, 2016 10:11 AM
To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com; laurieferrari at aol.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations
I find it funny that three months after the Fun Rally we are now
hearing that Shortt's bid for printing did not include shipping. Shortt
is a lot of things but a mistake like this...?
I was listening in on this meeting also and I know what I heard.
Apparently, the board convinced 'some' members of this so-called
discrepancy month's ago. Why wasn't this information, if it exists,
relayed to ALL of us in a timely manner?
Marshall
--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 8/15/16, Laurie Ferrari via DeTomaso
<detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations
To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Date: Monday, August 15, 2016, 9:57 AM
Dear AJ,
I have always respected you and your
opinions but in this case you are
incorrect as far as the resignation of
Jack DeRyke. I was on the Board
of Directors' conference call where he was
asked to stay and he
adamantly refused to if the printer
changed. Jack's resignation was
specifically because of the change in
printer! You can go research
that phone conference call, or the minutes
of the meeting, as the facts
are saved. As far as Mike Haney's
resignation, that was done by his
Mrs. for their reasons which most likely
were aligned with their
parents.
Laurie
In a message dated 8/13/2016
9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,?
[1]asajay at asajay.com
writes:
The last? I heard (and I may have
heard wrong), the board was
interested
in doing a? -real- accounting
comparison of printing costs, so for
me,
it's a wait and? see kind of
thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing
out on
full-color? and paying $8,000 more
for B/W then something is amiss.?
However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt
didn't account for all costs
properly.? I? have more faith that
the present board members will
properly investigate? and sort it
out for everyone.
I am on-board with electronic
delivery,? though I do admit it's nice
to
just sit back and read a paper
copy? too.? It's also easier to
hand-off
to Sam so he can read it? later.?
How do you really fix that?
I would think (and I don't? know),
that the ClubExpress membership
database might be able to include
a? "preference" as part of the
member's
profile or details.? Just as I? can
set an address and phone number,
if I
could check a box for Electronic?
delivery or paper copies, or both,
and
select whatever I wanted for each?
item (Profiles versus
Newsletter),
that might be ideal.
However,? I'm also familiar with
quantity discounting.? It very well
could be? that it costs the same
amount to print 500 as it does to
print
50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I
imagine those are considerations the
board will? look at as well.
Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie
has claimed, I have? heard (from
more
than one person), that Jack and
Mike did not resign? "because POCA
changed printers;" it was over
"control" of newsletter? content that
in
essence fell outside the bounds of
the by-laws.? For? a guy that
appeared
to try very hard to get everyone
else to follow the? by-laws (and
it's
unwritten code of ethics), Mr.
Shortt certainly didn't? feel they
applied
to him.
For the record, as I understand it,
POCA? has changed printers
-twice-
since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were
related? to the DeRykes) got out
of
the business.? So the "family
tie-in"? previously eluded to, was not
a
factor in the resignations.
Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted
for inflation)
Asa? Jay
Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt,
USAFR, Retired
&? Shelley? Mar
-----Original Message-----
From: detomaso-request <detomaso-request at server.detomasolist.com>
To: detomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2016 9:00 am
Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 146, Issue
20
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Daily Detomaso List Digest
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs.
electronic (marshallgsmith)
2. Re: De Tomaso Pantera GTS on eBay!
again $250K!! (Michael Cox)
3. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs.
electronic (Stephen)

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 20:27:43 -0700
From: marshallgsmith <[6]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
To: [7]P6746 at aol.com, [8]asajay at asajay.com,
[9]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost,
paper vs. electronic
Message-ID:
<[10]sdxpj9k7caacwyvlamgw7uly.1471231663405 at email.android.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
I have a couple questions Bob:
> Calling this situation "multiple dues
levels" seems to be making the
issue too complex. There are some members
that are opting to not have
printed magazines mailed which should make
those members eligible for a
discount because of the savings.
> What is your estimate of the length
of time that it would take the
board to arrange for a vote of the
membership to change the bylaws to
allow for this discount?
> Who specifically made that
apples-to-apples comparison you refer to?
> I agree that the editors should have
the most influence ?on the
process. ?However, our editors of both
publications seem to have a hard
time reporting to the members about ANY
issues pertaining to the
publication's themselves. Might that
change in the near future or will
radio silence be the norm here?
Marshall Smith
Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: P6746--- via DeTomaso <[11]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Date: 8/14/16 3:10 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: [12]asajay at asajay.com,
[13]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost,
paper vs. electronic
To use a cliche, we're working on it.?
Most of what has been mentioned is in the
pipeline.?? However, there
are
restrictions, particularly with the
By-Laws as they currently? stand.?
There
are no provisions for multiple dues
levels,? particularly pertaining to
how a
member elects to have their club?
publications delivered, etc.? That
will
take time as any changes or? amendments
must be approved by the whole
membership.
The consensus seems to be that the
Profiles would? continue as a print
publication for all except foreign members
who elect to? receive it
digitally.?
As far as printing is concerned, it is
that first copy that is? so
expensive, it is the subsequent copies
that bring down the per unit?
cost.? So as
fewer units are produced and shipped, the
cost per unit? increases but
not
proportionately.??
An apples to apples comparison was made
between an online? printer and
the
current printer for both printing and
mailing and the difference? was
pennies.? That wasn't pennies per unit but
for the whole run.?
As far as I am concerned, it is the
editors who should have? the most
influence as to how and where their
product is produced.? They are? the
ones who
must work with the printers and mailing
houses on a regular? basis.
Bob Reid?
In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M.
Eastern Daylight Time,?
[14]asajay at asajay.com
writes:
The last? I heard (and I may have heard
wrong), the board was
interested
in doing a? -real- accounting comparison
of printing costs, so for me,
it's a wait and? see kind of thing.? I
agree, if POCA was missing out
on
full-color? and paying $8,000 more for B/W
then something is amiss.?
However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt didn't
account for all costs
properly.? I? have more faith that the
present board members will
properly investigate? and sort it out for
everyone.
I am on-board with electronic delivery,?
though I do admit it's nice to
just sit back and read a paper copy? too.?
It's also easier to hand-off
to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do
you really fix that?
I would think (and I don't? know), that
the ClubExpress membership
database might be able to include a?
"preference" as part of the
member's
profile or details.? Just as I? can set an
address and phone number, if
I
could check a box for Electronic? delivery
or paper copies, or both,
and
select whatever I wanted for each? item
(Profiles versus Newsletter),
that might be ideal.
However,? I'm also familiar with quantity
discounting.? It very well
could be? that it costs the same amount to
print 500 as it does to
print
50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I imagine
those are considerations the
board will? look at as well.
Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has
claimed, I have? heard (from
more
than one person), that Jack and Mike did
not resign? "because POCA
changed printers;" it was over "control"
of newsletter? content that in
essence fell outside the bounds of the
by-laws.? For? a guy that
appeared
to try very hard to get everyone else to
follow the? by-laws (and it's
unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt
certainly didn't? feel they
applied
to him.
For the record, as I understand it, POCA?
has changed printers -twice-
since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were
related? to the DeRykes) got out of
the business.? So the "family tie-in"?
previously eluded to, was not a
factor in the resignations.
Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted for
inflation)
Asa? Jay
Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR,
Retired
&? Shelley? Marie
Spokane,? WA
******************************
[15]http://w7tsc.org
[16]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
_______________________________________________
Detomaso? Email List is not managed by
POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5?
Megabytes
DeTomaso mailing? list
[17]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
[18]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To? manage your subscription (change email
address, unsubscribe, etc.)
use
the? links above.
Members who post to this list grant
license to the list to? forward any
message posted here to all past, current,
or future members of the?
list. They
also grant the list owner permission to
maintain an archive or? approve
the
archiving of list? messages.
?? To use a cliche, we're working on it.
?? Most of what has been mentioned is in
the pipeline.? However, there
are
?? restrictions, particularly with the
By-Laws as they currently stand.
?? There are no provisions for multiple
dues levels,
?? particularly pertaining to how a member
elects to have their club
?? publications delivered, etc.? That will
take time as any changes or
?? amendments must be approved by the
whole membership.
?? The consensus seems to be that the
Profiles would continue as a
print
?? publication for all except foreign
members who elect to receive it
?? digitally.
?? As far as printing is concerned, it is
that first copy that is so
?? expensive, it is the subsequent copies
that bring down the per unit
?? cost.? So as fewer units are produced
and shipped, the cost per unit
?? increases but not proportionately.
?? An apples to apples comparison was made
between an online printer
and
?? the current printer for both printing
and mailing and the difference
?? was pennies.? That wasn't pennies per
unit but for the whole run.
?? As far as I am concerned, it is the
editors who should have the most
?? influence as to how and where their
product is produced.? They are
the
?? ones who must work with the printers
and mailing houses on a regular
?? basis.
?? Bob Reid
?? In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24
P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
?? [19]asajay at asajay.com
writes:
???? The last I heard (and I may have
heard wrong), the board was
???? interested
???? in doing a -real- accounting
comparison of printing costs, so for
???? me,
???? it's a wait and see kind of thing.? I
agree, if POCA was missing
out
???? on
???? full-color and paying $8,000 more for
B/W then something is amiss.
???? However, I also believe Mr. Shortt
didn't account for all costs
???? properly.? I have more faith that the
present board members will
???? properly investigate and sort it out
for everyone.
???? I am on-board with electronic
delivery, though I do admit it's
nice
???? to
???? just sit back and read a paper copy
too.? It's also easier to
???? hand-off
???? to Sam so he can read it later.? How
do you really fix that?
???? I would think (and I don't know),
that the ClubExpress membership
???? database might be able to include a
"preference" as part of the
???? member's
???? profile or details.? Just as I can
set an address and phone
number,
???? if I
???? could check a box for Electronic
delivery or paper copies, or
both,
???? and
???? select whatever I wanted for each
item (Profiles versus
Newsletter),
???? that might be ideal.
???? However, I'm also familiar with
quantity discounting.? It very
well
???? could be that it costs the same
amount to print 500 as it does to
???? print
???? 50, or 10 (but I doubt it).? I
imagine those are considerations
the
???? board will look at as well.
???? Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie
has claimed, I have heard (from
???? more
???? than one person), that Jack and Mike
did not resign "because POCA
???? changed printers;" it was over
"control" of newsletter content
that
???? in
???? essence fell outside the bounds of
the by-laws.? For a guy that
???? appeared
???? to try very hard to get everyone else
to follow the by-laws (and
???? it's
???? unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt
certainly didn't feel they
???? applied
???? to him.
???? For the record, as I understand it,
POCA has changed printers
???? -twice-
???? since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were
related to the DeRykes) got
out
???? of
???? the business.? So the "family tie-in"
previously eluded to, was
not
???? a
???? factor in the resignations.
???? Just my $1.50? (two cents adjusted
for inflation)
???? Asa? Jay
???? Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt,
USAFR, Retired
???? &? Shelley Marie
???? Spokane, WA
???? ******************************
???? [20]http://w7tsc.org
???? [21]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
????
_______________________________________________
???? Detomaso Email List is not managed by
POCA
???? Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
Megabytes
???? DeTomaso mailing list
???? [22]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
???? [23]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
???? To manage your subscription (change
email address, unsubscribe,
???? etc.) use the links above.
???? Members who post to this list grant
license to the list to forward
???? any message posted here to all past,
current, or future members of
???? the list. They also grant the list
owner permission to maintain an
???? archive or approve the archiving of
list messages.
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by
POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
Megabytes
DeTomaso mailing list
[24]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
[25]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To manage your subscription (change email
address, unsubscribe, etc.)
use the links above.
Members who post to this list grant
license to the list to forward any
message posted here to all past, current,
or future members of the
list. They also grant the list owner
permission to maintain an archive
or approve the archiving of list
messages.
-------------- next part --------------
I have a couple questions Bob:
> Calling this situation "multiple dues
levels" seems to be making the
issue too complex. There are some members
that are opting to not have
printed magazines mailed which should make
those members eligible for a
discount because of the savings.
> What is your estimate of the length
of time that it would take the
board to arrange for a vote of the
membership to change the bylaws to
allow for this discount?
> Who specifically made that
apples-to-apples comparison you refer to?
> I agree that the editors should have
the most influence on the
process. However, our editors of both
publications seem to have a hard
time reporting to the members about ANY
issues pertaining to the
publication's themselves. Might that
change in the near future or will
radio silence be the norm here?
Marshall Smith
Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: P6746--- via DeTomaso <[26]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Date: 8/14/16 3:10 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: [27]asajay at asajay.com,
[28]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost,
paper vs. electronic
To use a cliche, we're working on it.
Most of what has been mentioned is in the
pipeline. However, there
are
restrictions, particularly with the
By-Laws as they currently stand.
There
are no provisions for multiple dues
levels, particularly pertaining to
how a
member elects to have their club
publications delivered, etc. That
will
take time as any changes or amendments
must be approved by the whole
membership.
The consensus seems to be that the
Profiles would continue as a print
publication for all except foreign members
who elect to receive it
digitally.
As far as printing is concerned, it is
that first copy that is so
expensive, it is the subsequent copies
that bring down the per unit
cost. So as
fewer units are produced and shipped, the
cost per unit increases but
not
proportionately.
An apples to apples comparison was made
between an online printer and
the
current printer for both printing and
mailing and the difference was
pennies. That wasn't pennies per unit but
for the whole run.
As far as I am concerned, it is the
editors who should have the most
influence as to how and where their
product is produced. They are the
ones who
must work with the printers and mailing
houses on a regular basis.
Bob Reid
In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M.
Eastern Daylight Time,
[29]asajay at asajay.com
writes:
The last I heard (and I may have heard
wrong), the board was
interested
in doing a -real- accounting comparison of
printing costs, so for me,
it's a wait and see kind of thing. I
agree, if POCA was missing out
on
full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W
then something is amiss.
However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't
account for all costs
properly. I have more faith that the
present board members will
properly investigate and sort it out for
everyone.
I am on-board with electronic delivery,
though I do admit it's nice to
just sit back and read a paper copy too.
It's also easier to hand-off
to Sam so he can read it later. How do you
really fix that?
I would think (and I don't know), that the
ClubExpress membership
database might be able to include a
"preference" as part of the
member's
profile or details. Just as I can set an
address and phone number, if
I
could check a box for Electronic delivery
or paper copies, or both,
and
select whatever I wanted for each item
(Profiles versus Newsletter),
that might be ideal.
However, I'm also familiar with quantity
discounting. It very well
could be that it costs the same amount to
print 500 as it does to
print
50, or 10 (but I doubt it). I imagine
those are considerations the
board will look at as well.
Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has
claimed, I have heard (from
more
than one person), that Jack and Mike did
not resign "because POCA
changed printers;" it was over "control"
of newsletter content that in
essence fell outside the bounds of the
by-laws. For a guy that
appeared
to try very hard to get everyone else to
follow the by-laws (and it's
unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt
certainly didn't feel they
applied
to him.
For the record, as I understand it, POCA
has changed printers -twice-
since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were
related to the DeRykes) got out of
the business. So the "family tie-in"
previously eluded to, was not a
factor in the resignations.
Just my $1.50 (two cents adjusted for
inflation)
Asa Jay
Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR,
Retired
& Shelley Marie
Spokane, WA
******************************
[30]http://w7tsc.org
[31]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by
POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
Megabytes
DeTomaso mailing list
[32]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
[33]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To manage your subscription (change email
address, unsubscribe, etc.)
use
the links above.
Members who post to this list grant
license to the list to forward any
message posted here to all past, current,
or future members of the
list. They
also grant the list owner permission to
maintain an archive or approve
the
archiving of list messages.
To use a cliche, we're working on it.
Most of what has been mentioned is in the
pipeline. However, there
are
restrictions, particularly with the
By-Laws as they currently stand.
There are no provisions for multiple dues
levels,
particularly pertaining to how a member
elects to have their club
publications delivered, etc. That will
take time as any changes or
amendments must be approved by the whole
membership.
The consensus seems to be that the
Profiles would continue as a
print
publication for all except foreign members
who elect to receive it
digitally.
As far as printing is concerned, it is
that first copy that is so
expensive, it is the subsequent copies
that bring down the per unit
cost. So as fewer units are produced and
shipped, the cost per unit
increases but not proportionately.
An apples to apples comparison was made
between an online printer
and
the current printer for both printing and
mailing and the difference
was pennies. That wasn't pennies per unit
but for the whole run.
As far as I am concerned, it is the
editors who should have the most
influence as to how and where their
product is produced. They are
the
ones who must work with the printers and
mailing houses on a regular
basis.
Bob Reid
In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M.
Eastern Daylight Time,
[34]asajay at asajay.com
writes:
The last I heard (and I may have heard
wrong), the board was
interested
in doing a -real- accounting comparison of
printing costs, so for
me,
it's a wait and see kind of thing. I
agree, if POCA was missing
out
on
full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W
then something is amiss.
However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't
account for all costs
properly. I have more faith that the
present board members will
properly investigate and sort it out for
everyone.
I am on-board with electronic delivery,
though I do admit it's
nice
to
just sit back and read a paper copy too.
It's also easier to
hand-off
to Sam so he can read it later. How do you
really fix that?
I would think (and I don't know), that the
ClubExpress membership
database might be able to include a
"preference" as part of the
member's
profile or details. Just as I can set an
address and phone
number,
if I
could check a box for Electronic delivery
or paper copies, or
both,
and
select whatever I wanted for each item
(Profiles versus
Newsletter),
that might be ideal.
However, I'm also familiar with quantity
discounting. It very
well
could be that it costs the same amount to
print 500 as it does to
print
50, or 10 (but I doubt it). I imagine
those are considerations
the
board will look at as well.
Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has
claimed, I have heard (from
more
than one person), that Jack and Mike did
not resign "because POCA
changed printers;" it was over "control"
of newsletter content
that
in
essence fell outside the bounds of the
by-laws. For a guy that
appeared
to try very hard to get everyone else to
follow the by-laws (and
it's
unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt
certainly didn't feel they
applied
to him.
For the record, as I understand it, POCA
has changed printers
-twice-
since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were
related to the DeRykes) got
out
of
the business. So the "family tie-in"
previously eluded to, was
not
a
factor in the resignations.
Just my $1.50 (two cents adjusted for
inflation)
Asa Jay
Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR,
Retired
& Shelley Marie
Spokane, WA
******************************
[35]http://w7tsc.org
[36]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by
POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
Megabytes
DeTomaso mailing list
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------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 20:56:45 -0700
From: Michael Cox <[41]coxmichaelt at gmail.com>
To: [42]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] De Tomaso Pantera
GTS on eBay! again $250K!!
Message-ID:

<CAMPkPf3HQcqg5vLxgjpJP=7z=UBbrVs=[43]ynAnbzepC1U9QH+A_Q at mail.gmail.com
>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> From: Ed Mendez <[44]edducati at mac.com>
> Subject: [DeTomaso] De Tomaso Pantera
GTS on eBay! again $250K!!
>
> Hi! I found this on eBay and thought
you might like it! Check it out
now! De Tomaso:
> Other Pantera GTS [45]http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
These guys found that ad too. :^)

[46]http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-pantera-ha
s-only-785-miles-to-its-name/109069/
--michael cox
-------------- next part --------------
> From: Ed Mendez <[1][47]edducati at mac.com>
> Subject: [DeTomaso] De Tomaso Pantera
GTS on eBay! again $250K!!
>A
> Hi! I found this on eBay and thought
you might like it! Check it out
now!A De Tomaso:
> Other Pantera GTSA [2][48]http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
These guys found that ad too. A :^)

[3][49]http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-pantera
-has
-only-785-miles-to-its-name/109069/
A A --michael cox
References
1. [50]mailto:edducati at mac.com
2. [51]http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
3.

[52]http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-pantera-ha
s-only-785-miles-to-its-name/109069/
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 08:05:15 -0700
From: "Stephen" <[53]steve at snclocks.com>
To: "'marshallgsmith'" <[54]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>,
<[55]P6746 at aol.com>,
<[56]asajay at asajay.com>,
<[57]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost,
paper vs. electronic
Message-ID:
<004701d1f706$6ead4a50$4c07def0$@snclocks.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Having been on Boards before - I'd suggest
the current Board deserves
some time to catch their breath and
recover from the situation they
have recently been through. It is amazing
how much time something like
this takes - and I suspect everyone on the
Board would like to catch up
on all the things they have let slide
while coping with the removal of
a president and all the animosity and
e-mails the whole mess generated.
It's so easy to ask questions - but takes
a lot more time to figure out
how to do everything asked below. For now,
let's just let the Board
recover and slowly get some of the loose
ends taken care of.
Stephen Nelson
-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso
[[58]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com]
On
Behalf Of marshallgsmith
Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2016 8:28 PM
To: [59]P6746 at aol.com; [60]asajay at asajay.com;
[61]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost,
paper vs. electronic
I have a couple questions Bob:
> Calling this situation "multiple dues
levels" seems to be making the
issue too complex. There are some members
that are opting to not have
printed magazines mailed which should make
those members eligible for a
discount because of the savings.
> What is your estimate of the length
of time that it would take the
board to arrange for a vote of the
membership to change the bylaws to
allow for this discount?
> Who specifically made that
apples-to-apples comparison you refer to?
> I agree that the editors should have
the most influence on the
process. However, our editors of both
publications seem to have a hard
time reporting to the members about ANY
issues pertaining to the
publication's themselves. Might that
change in the near future or will
radio silence be the norm here?
Marshall Smith
Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: P6746--- via DeTomaso <[62]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Date: 8/14/16 3:10 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: [63]asajay at asajay.com,
[64]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost,
paper vs. electronic
To use a cliche, we're working on it.
Most of what has been mentioned is in the
pipeline. However, there are
restrictions, particularly with the
By-Laws as they currently stand.
There are no provisions for multiple dues
levels, particularly
pertaining to how a member elects to have
their club publications
delivered, etc. That will take time as any
changes or amendments must
be approved by the whole membership.
The consensus seems to be that the
Profiles would continue as a print
publication for all except foreign members
who elect to receive it
digitally.
As far as printing is concerned, it is
that first copy that is so
expensive, it is the subsequent copies
that bring down the per unit
cost. So as fewer units are produced and
shipped, the cost per unit
increases but not proportionately.
An apples to apples comparison was made
between an online printer and
the current printer for both printing and
mailing and the difference
was pennies. That wasn't pennies per unit
but for the whole run.
As far as I am concerned, it is the
editors who should have the most
influence as to how and where their
product is produced. They are the
ones who must work with the printers and
mailing houses on a regular
basis.
Bob Reid
In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M.
Eastern Daylight Time,
[65]asajay at asajay.com
writes:
The last I heard (and I may have heard
wrong), the board was interested
in doing a -real- accounting comparison of
printing costs, so for me,
it's a wait and see kind of thing. I
agree, if POCA was missing out on
full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W
then something is amiss.
However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't
account for all costs
properly. I have more faith that the
present board members will
properly investigate and sort it out for
everyone.
I am on-board with electronic delivery,
though I do admit it's nice to
just sit back and read a paper copy too.
It's also easier to hand-off
to Sam so he can read it later. How do you
really fix that?
I would think (and I don't know), that the
ClubExpress membership
database might be able to include a
"preference" as part of the
member's profile or details. Just as I can
set an address and phone
number, if I could check a box for
Electronic delivery or paper copies,
or both, and select whatever I wanted for
each item (Profiles versus
Newsletter), that might be ideal.
However, I'm also familiar with quantity
discounting. It very well
could be that it costs the same amount to
print 500 as it does to print
50, or 10 (but I doubt it). I imagine
those are considerations the
board will look at as well.
Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has
claimed, I have heard (from more
than one person), that Jack and Mike did
not resign "because POCA
changed printers;" it was over "control"
of newsletter content that in
essence fell outside the bounds of the
by-laws. For a guy that appeared
to try very hard to get everyone else to
follow the by-laws (and it's
unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt
certainly didn't feel they
applied to him.
For the record, as I understand it, POCA
has changed printers -twice-
since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were
related to the DeRykes) got out of
the business. So the "family tie-in"
previously eluded to, was not a
factor in the resignations.
Just my $1.50 (two cents adjusted for
inflation) Asa Jay
Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR,
Retired & Shelley Marie Spokane,
WA
******************************
[66]http://w7tsc.org
[67]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
Posted emails must not
exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing
list
[68]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
[69]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To manage your subscription (change email
address, unsubscribe, etc.)
use the links above.
Members who post to this list grant
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message posted here to all past, current,
or future members of the
list. They also grant the list owner
permission to maintain an archive
or approve the archiving of list
messages.
To use a cliche, we're working on it.
Most of what has been mentioned is in the
pipeline. However, there are
restrictions, particularly with the
By-Laws as they currently stand.
There are no provisions for multiple dues
levels,
particularly pertaining to how a member
elects to have their club
publications delivered, etc. That will
take time as any changes or
amendments must be approved by the whole
membership.
The consensus seems to be that the
Profiles would continue as a print
publication for all except foreign members
who elect to receive it
digitally.
As far as printing is concerned, it is
that first copy that is so
expensive, it is the subsequent copies
that bring down the per unit
cost. So as fewer units are produced and
shipped, the cost per unit
increases but not proportionately.
An apples to apples comparison was made
between an online printer and
the current printer for both printing and
mailing and the difference
was pennies. That wasn't pennies per unit
but for the whole run.
As far as I am concerned, it is the
editors who should have the most
influence as to how and where their
product is produced. They are the
ones who must work with the printers and
mailing houses on a regular
basis.
Bob Reid
In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M.
Eastern Daylight Time,
[70]asajay at asajay.com
writes:
The last I heard (and I may have heard
wrong), the board was
interested
in doing a -real- accounting comparison of
printing costs, so for
me,
it's a wait and see kind of thing. I
agree, if POCA was missing out
on
full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W
then something is amiss.
However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't
account for all costs
properly. I have more faith that the
present board members will
properly investigate and sort it out for
everyone.
I am on-board with electronic delivery,
though I do admit it's nice
to
just sit back and read a paper copy too.
It's also easier to
hand-off
to Sam so he can read it later. How do you
really fix that?
I would think (and I don't know), that the
ClubExpress membership
database might be able to include a
"preference" as part of the
member's
profile or details. Just as I can set an
address and phone number,
if I
could check a box for Electronic delivery
or paper copies, or both,
and
select whatever I wanted for each item
(Profiles versus Newsletter),
that might be ideal.
However, I'm also familiar with quantity
discounting. It very well
could be that it costs the same amount to
print 500 as it does to
print
50, or 10 (but I doubt it). I imagine
those are considerations the
board will look at as well.
Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has
claimed, I have heard (from
more
than one person), that Jack and Mike did
not resign "because POCA
changed printers;" it was over "control"
of newsletter content that
in
essence fell outside the bounds of the
by-laws. For a guy that
appeared
to try very hard to get everyone else to
follow the by-laws (and
it's
unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt
certainly didn't feel they
applied
to him.
For the record, as I understand it, POCA
has changed printers
-twice-
since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were
related to the DeRykes) got out
of
the business. So the "family tie-in"
previously eluded to, was not
a
factor in the resignations.
Just my $1.50 (two cents adjusted for
inflation)
Asa Jay
Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR,
Retired
& Shelley Marie
Spokane, WA
******************************
[71]http://w7tsc.org
[72]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
_______________________________________________
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list
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------------------------------
Subject: Digest Footer
_______________________________________________
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------------------------------
End of DeTomaso Digest, Vol 146, Issue 20
*****************************************
References
1. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
2. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
3. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
4. mailto:request at server.detomasolist.com
5. mailto:owner at server.detomasolist.com
6. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
7. mailto:P6746 at aol.com
8. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
9. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
10. mailto:sdxpj9k7caacwyvlamgw7uly.1471231663405 at email.android.com
11. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
12. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
13. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
14. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
15. http://w7tsc.org/
16. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
17. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
18. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
19. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
20. http://w7tsc.org/
21. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
22. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
23. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
24. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
25. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
26. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
27. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
28. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
29. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
30. http://w7tsc.org/
31. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
32. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
33. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
34. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
35. http://w7tsc.org/
36. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
37. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
38. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
39. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
40. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
41. mailto:coxmichaelt at gmail.com
42. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
43. mailto:ynAnbzepC1U9QH+A_Q at mail.gmail.com
44. mailto:edducati at mac.com
45. http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
46.
http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-pantera-has-on
ly-785-miles-to-its-name/109069/
47. mailto:edducati at mac.com
48. http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
49.
http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-pantera-has
50. mailto:edducati at mac.com?
51. http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
52.
http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-pantera-has-on
ly-785-miles-to-its-name/109069/
53. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
54. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
55. mailto:P6746 at aol.com
56. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
57. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
58. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com?
59. mailto:P6746 at aol.com
60. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
61. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
62. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
63. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
64. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
65. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
66. http://w7tsc.org/
67. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
68. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
69. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
70. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
71. http://w7tsc.org/
72. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
73. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
74. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
75. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
76. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
77. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
78. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
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DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To manage your subscription (change email address,
unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
Members who post to this list grant license to the list to
forward any message posted here to all past, current, or
future members of the list. They also grant the list owner
permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving
of list messages.
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
DeTomaso mailing list
DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
use the links above.
Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
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list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
or approve the archiving of list messages.
I have digested all the emails on this topic and to be honest it
still
doesn't sit well in my gut.
Presumably the BOD voted in favor of changing printers based upon
the
quotes presented. Did they not have all the facts and
if not why did they not question further? Did Jack have all the
facts w
hen he resigned or were his and Mike Haney's resignations simply an
outright stand against changing printer?
Why did Michael push to change printer if he knew there was only
pennies between it?
Julian
__________________________________________________________________
From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf
of
marshall smith <marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Monday, August 15, 2016 10:11 AM
To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com; laurieferrari at aol.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations
I find it funny that three months after the Fun Rally we are now
hearing that Shortt's bid for printing did not include shipping.
Shortt
is a lot of things but a mistake like this...?
I was listening in on this meeting also and I know what I heard.
Apparently, the board convinced 'some' members of this so-called
discrepancy month's ago. Why wasn't this information, if it exists,
relayed to ALL of us in a timely manner?
Marshall
--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 8/15/16, Laurie Ferrari via DeTomaso
<detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations
To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Date: Monday, August 15, 2016, 9:57 AM
Dear AJ,
I have always respected you and your
opinions but in this case you are
incorrect as far as the resignation of
Jack DeRyke. I was on the Board
of Directors' conference call where he was
asked to stay and he
adamantly refused to if the printer
changed. Jack's resignation was
specifically because of the change in
printer! You can go research
that phone conference call, or the minutes
of the meeting, as the facts
are saved. As far as Mike Haney's
resignation, that was done by his
Mrs. for their reasons which most likely
were aligned with their
parents.
Laurie
In a message dated 8/13/2016
9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,?
[1]asajay at asajay.com
writes:
The last? I heard (and I may have
heard wrong), the board was
interested
in doing a? -real- accounting
comparison of printing costs, so for
me,
it's a wait and? see kind of
thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing
out on
full-color? and paying $8,000 more
for B/W then something is amiss.?
However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt
didn't account for all costs
properly.? I? have more faith that
the present board members will
properly investigate? and sort it
out for everyone.
I am on-board with electronic
delivery,? though I do admit it's nice
to
just sit back and read a paper
copy? too.? It's also easier to
hand-off
to Sam so he can read it? later.?
How do you really fix that?
I would think (and I don't? know),
that the ClubExpress membership
database might be able to include
a? "preference" as part of the
member's
profile or details.? Just as I? can
set an address and phone number,
if I
could check a box for Electronic?
delivery or paper copies, or both,
and
select whatever I wanted for each?
item (Profiles versus
Newsletter),
that might be ideal.
However,? I'm also familiar with
quantity discounting.? It very well
could be? that it costs the same
amount to print 500 as it does to
print
50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I
imagine those are considerations the
board will? look at as well.
Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie
has claimed, I have? heard (from
more
than one person), that Jack and
Mike did not resign? "because POCA
changed printers;" it was over
"control" of newsletter? content that
in
essence fell outside the bounds of
the by-laws.? For? a guy that
appeared
to try very hard to get everyone
else to follow the? by-laws (and
it's
unwritten code of ethics), Mr.
Shortt certainly didn't? feel they
applied
to him.
For the record, as I understand it,
POCA? has changed printers
-twice-
since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were
related? to the DeRykes) got out
of
the business.? So the "family
tie-in"? previously eluded to, was not
a
factor in the resignations.
Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted
for inflation)
Asa? Jay
Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt,
USAFR, Retired
&? Shelley? Mar
-----Original Message-----
From: detomaso-request
<detomaso-request at server.detomasolist.com>
To: detomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2016 9:00 am
Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 146, Issue
20
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than "Re: Contents of DeTomaso digest..."
Daily Detomaso List Digest
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs.
electronic (marshallgsmith)
2. Re: De Tomaso Pantera GTS on eBay!
again $250K!! (Michael Cox)
3. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs.
electronic (Stephen)

-------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 20:27:43 -0700
From: marshallgsmith <[6]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
To: [7]P6746 at aol.com, [8]asajay at asajay.com,
[9]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost,
paper vs. electronic
Message-ID:
<[10]sdxpj9k7caacwyvlamgw7uly.1471231663405 at email.android.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
I have a couple questions Bob:
> Calling this situation "multiple dues
levels" seems to be making the
issue too complex. There are some members
that are opting to not have
printed magazines mailed which should make
those members eligible for a
discount because of the savings.
> What is your estimate of the length
of time that it would take the
board to arrange for a vote of the
membership to change the bylaws to
allow for this discount?
> Who specifically made that
apples-to-apples comparison you refer to?
> I agree that the editors should have
the most influence ?on the
process. ?However, our editors of both
publications seem to have a hard
time reporting to the members about ANY
issues pertaining to the
publication's themselves. Might that
change in the near future or will
radio silence be the norm here?
Marshall Smith
Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: P6746--- via DeTomaso
<[11]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Date: 8/14/16 3:10 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: [12]asajay at asajay.com,
[13]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost,
paper vs. electronic
To use a cliche, we're working on it.?
Most of what has been mentioned is in the
pipeline.?? However, there
are
restrictions, particularly with the
By-Laws as they currently? stand.?
There
are no provisions for multiple dues
levels,? particularly pertaining to
how a
member elects to have their club?
publications delivered, etc.? That
will
take time as any changes or? amendments
must be approved by the whole
membership.
The consensus seems to be that the
Profiles would? continue as a print
publication for all except foreign members
who elect to? receive it
digitally.?
As far as printing is concerned, it is
that first copy that is? so
expensive, it is the subsequent copies
that bring down the per unit?
cost.? So as
fewer units are produced and shipped, the
cost per unit? increases but
not
proportionately.??
An apples to apples comparison was made
between an online? printer and
the
current printer for both printing and
mailing and the difference? was
pennies.? That wasn't pennies per unit but
for the whole run.?
As far as I am concerned, it is the
editors who should have? the most
influence as to how and where their
product is produced.? They are? the
ones who
must work with the printers and mailing
houses on a regular? basis.
Bob Reid?
In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M.
Eastern Daylight Time,?
[14]asajay at asajay.com
writes:
The last? I heard (and I may have heard
wrong), the board was
interested
in doing a? -real- accounting comparison
of printing costs, so for me,
it's a wait and? see kind of thing.? I
agree, if POCA was missing out
on
full-color? and paying $8,000 more for B/W
then something is amiss.?
However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt didn't
account for all costs
properly.? I? have more faith that the
present board members will
properly investigate? and sort it out for
everyone.
I am on-board with electronic delivery,?
though I do admit it's nice to
just sit back and read a paper copy? too.?
It's also easier to hand-off
to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do
you really fix that?
I would think (and I don't? know), that
the ClubExpress membership
database might be able to include a?
"preference" as part of the
member's
profile or details.? Just as I? can set an
address and phone number, if
I
could check a box for Electronic? delivery
or paper copies, or both,
and
select whatever I wanted for each? item
(Profiles versus Newsletter),
that might be ideal.
However,? I'm also familiar with quantity
discounting.? It very well
could be? that it costs the same amount to
print 500 as it does to
print
50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I imagine
those are considerations the
board will? look at as well.
Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has
claimed, I have? heard (from
more
than one person), that Jack and Mike did
not resign? "because POCA
changed printers;" it was over "control"
of newsletter? content that in
essence fell outside the bounds of the
by-laws.? For? a guy that
appeared
to try very hard to get everyone else to
follow the? by-laws (and it's
unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt
certainly didn't? feel they
applied
to him.
For the record, as I understand it, POCA?
has changed printers -twice-
since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were
related? to the DeRykes) got out of
the business.? So the "family tie-in"?
previously eluded to, was not a
factor in the resignations.
Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted for
inflation)
Asa? Jay
Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR,
Retired
&? Shelley? Marie
Spokane,? WA
******************************
[15]http://w7tsc.org
[16]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
_______________________________________________
Detomaso? Email List is not managed by
POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5?
Megabytes
DeTomaso mailing? list
[17]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
[18]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To? manage your subscription (change email
address, unsubscribe, etc.)
use
the? links above.
Members who post to this list grant
license to the list to? forward any
message posted here to all past, current,
or future members of the?
list. They
also grant the list owner permission to
maintain an archive or? approve
the
archiving of list? messages.
?? To use a cliche, we're working on it.
?? Most of what has been mentioned is in
the pipeline.? However, there
are
?? restrictions, particularly with the
By-Laws as they currently stand.
?? There are no provisions for multiple
dues levels,
?? particularly pertaining to how a member
elects to have their club
?? publications delivered, etc.? That will
take time as any changes or
?? amendments must be approved by the
whole membership.
?? The consensus seems to be that the
Profiles would continue as a
print
?? publication for all except foreign
members who elect to receive it
?? digitally.
?? As far as printing is concerned, it is
that first copy that is so
?? expensive, it is the subsequent copies
that bring down the per unit
?? cost.? So as fewer units are produced
and shipped, the cost per unit
?? increases but not proportionately.
?? An apples to apples comparison was made
between an online printer
and
?? the current printer for both printing
and mailing and the difference
?? was pennies.? That wasn't pennies per
unit but for the whole run.
?? As far as I am concerned, it is the
editors who should have the most
?? influence as to how and where their
product is produced.? They are
the
?? ones who must work with the printers
and mailing houses on a regular
?? basis.
?? Bob Reid
?? In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24
P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
?? [19]asajay at asajay.com
writes:
???? The last I heard (and I may have
heard wrong), the board was
???? interested
???? in doing a -real- accounting
comparison of printing costs, so for
???? me,
???? it's a wait and see kind of thing.? I
agree, if POCA was missing
out
???? on
???? full-color and paying $8,000 more for
B/W then something is amiss.
???? However, I also believe Mr. Shortt
didn't account for all costs
???? properly.? I have more faith that the
present board members will
???? properly investigate and sort it out
for everyone.
???? I am on-board with electronic
delivery, though I do admit it's
nice
???? to
???? just sit back and read a paper copy
too.? It's also easier to
???? hand-off
???? to Sam so he can read it later.? How
do you really fix that?
???? I would think (and I don't know),
that the ClubExpress membership
???? database might be able to include a
"preference" as part of the
???? member's
???? profile or details.? Just as I can
set an address and phone
number,
???? if I
???? could check a box for Electronic
delivery or paper copies, or
both,
???? and
???? select whatever I wanted for each
item (Profiles versus
Newsletter),
???? that might be ideal.
???? However, I'm also familiar with
quantity discounting.? It very
well
???? could be that it costs the same
amount to print 500 as it does to
???? print
???? 50, or 10 (but I doubt it).? I
imagine those are considerations
the
???? board will look at as well.
???? Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie
has claimed, I have heard (from
???? more
???? than one person), that Jack and Mike
did not resign "because POCA
???? changed printers;" it was over
"control" of newsletter content
that
???? in
???? essence fell outside the bounds of
the by-laws.? For a guy that
???? appeared
???? to try very hard to get everyone else
to follow the by-laws (and
???? it's
???? unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt
certainly didn't feel they
???? applied
???? to him.
???? For the record, as I understand it,
POCA has changed printers
???? -twice-
???? since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were
related to the DeRykes) got
out
???? of
???? the business.? So the "family tie-in"
previously eluded to, was
not
???? a
???? factor in the resignations.
???? Just my $1.50? (two cents adjusted
for inflation)
???? Asa? Jay
???? Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt,
USAFR, Retired
???? &? Shelley Marie
???? Spokane, WA
???? ******************************
???? [20]http://w7tsc.org
???? [21]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
????
_______________________________________________
???? Detomaso Email List is not managed by
POCA
???? Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
Megabytes
???? DeTomaso mailing list
???? [22]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
????
[23]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
???? To manage your subscription (change
email address, unsubscribe,
???? etc.) use the links above.
???? Members who post to this list grant
license to the list to forward
???? any message posted here to all past,
current, or future members of
???? the list. They also grant the list
owner permission to maintain an
???? archive or approve the archiving of
list messages.
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by
POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
Megabytes
DeTomaso mailing list
[24]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
[25]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To manage your subscription (change email
address, unsubscribe, etc.)
use the links above.
Members who post to this list grant
license to the list to forward any
message posted here to all past, current,
or future members of the
list. They also grant the list owner
permission to maintain an archive
or approve the archiving of list
messages.
-------------- next part --------------
I have a couple questions Bob:
> Calling this situation "multiple dues
levels" seems to be making the
issue too complex. There are some members
that are opting to not have
printed magazines mailed which should make
those members eligible for a
discount because of the savings.
> What is your estimate of the length
of time that it would take the
board to arrange for a vote of the
membership to change the bylaws to
allow for this discount?
> Who specifically made that
apples-to-apples comparison you refer to?
> I agree that the editors should have
the most influence on the
process. However, our editors of both
publications seem to have a hard
time reporting to the members about ANY
issues pertaining to the
publication's themselves. Might that
change in the near future or will
radio silence be the norm here?
Marshall Smith
Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: P6746--- via DeTomaso
<[26]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Date: 8/14/16 3:10 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: [27]asajay at asajay.com,
[28]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost,
paper vs. electronic
To use a cliche, we're working on it.
Most of what has been mentioned is in the
pipeline. However, there
are
restrictions, particularly with the
By-Laws as they currently stand.
There
are no provisions for multiple dues
levels, particularly pertaining to
how a
member elects to have their club
publications delivered, etc. That
will
take time as any changes or amendments
must be approved by the whole
membership.
The consensus seems to be that the
Profiles would continue as a print
publication for all except foreign members
who elect to receive it
digitally.
As far as printing is concerned, it is
that first copy that is so
expensive, it is the subsequent copies
that bring down the per unit
cost. So as
fewer units are produced and shipped, the
cost per unit increases but
not
proportionately.
An apples to apples comparison was made
between an online printer and
the
current printer for both printing and
mailing and the difference was
pennies. That wasn't pennies per unit but
for the whole run.
As far as I am concerned, it is the
editors who should have the most
influence as to how and where their
product is produced. They are the
ones who
must work with the printers and mailing
houses on a regular basis.
Bob Reid
In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M.
Eastern Daylight Time,
[29]asajay at asajay.com
writes:
The last I heard (and I may have heard
wrong), the board was
interested
in doing a -real- accounting comparison of
printing costs, so for me,
it's a wait and see kind of thing. I
agree, if POCA was missing out
on
full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W
then something is amiss.
However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't
account for all costs
properly. I have more faith that the
present board members will
properly investigate and sort it out for
everyone.
I am on-board with electronic delivery,
though I do admit it's nice to
just sit back and read a paper copy too.
It's also easier to hand-off
to Sam so he can read it later. How do you
really fix that?
I would think (and I don't know), that the
ClubExpress membership
database might be able to include a
"preference" as part of the
member's
profile or details. Just as I can set an
address and phone number, if
I
could check a box for Electronic delivery
or paper copies, or both,
and
select whatever I wanted for each item
(Profiles versus Newsletter),
that might be ideal.
However, I'm also familiar with quantity
discounting. It very well
could be that it costs the same amount to
print 500 as it does to
print
50, or 10 (but I doubt it). I imagine
those are considerations the
board will look at as well.
Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has
claimed, I have heard (from
more
than one person), that Jack and Mike did
not resign "because POCA
changed printers;" it was over "control"
of newsletter content that in
essence fell outside the bounds of the
by-laws. For a guy that
appeared
to try very hard to get everyone else to
follow the by-laws (and it's
unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt
certainly didn't feel they
applied
to him.
For the record, as I understand it, POCA
has changed printers -twice-
since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were
related to the DeRykes) got out of
the business. So the "family tie-in"
previously eluded to, was not a
factor in the resignations.
Just my $1.50 (two cents adjusted for
inflation)
Asa Jay
Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR,
Retired
& Shelley Marie
Spokane, WA
******************************
[30]http://w7tsc.org
[31]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by
POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
Megabytes
DeTomaso mailing list
[32]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
[33]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To manage your subscription (change email
address, unsubscribe, etc.)
use
the links above.
Members who post to this list grant
license to the list to forward any
message posted here to all past, current,
or future members of the
list. They
also grant the list owner permission to
maintain an archive or approve
the
archiving of list messages.
To use a cliche, we're working on it.
Most of what has been mentioned is in the
pipeline. However, there
are
restrictions, particularly with the
By-Laws as they currently stand.
There are no provisions for multiple dues
levels,
particularly pertaining to how a member
elects to have their club
publications delivered, etc. That will
take time as any changes or
amendments must be approved by the whole
membership.
The consensus seems to be that the
Profiles would continue as a
print
publication for all except foreign members
who elect to receive it
digitally.
As far as printing is concerned, it is
that first copy that is so
expensive, it is the subsequent copies
that bring down the per unit
cost. So as fewer units are produced and
shipped, the cost per unit
increases but not proportionately.
An apples to apples comparison was made
between an online printer
and
the current printer for both printing and
mailing and the difference
was pennies. That wasn't pennies per unit
but for the whole run.
As far as I am concerned, it is the
editors who should have the most
influence as to how and where their
product is produced. They are
the
ones who must work with the printers and
mailing houses on a regular
basis.
Bob Reid
In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M.
Eastern Daylight Time,
[34]asajay at asajay.com
writes:
The last I heard (and I may have heard
wrong), the board was
interested
in doing a -real- accounting comparison of
printing costs, so for
me,
it's a wait and see kind of thing. I
agree, if POCA was missing
out
on
full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W
then something is amiss.
However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't
account for all costs
properly. I have more faith that the
present board members will
properly investigate and sort it out for
everyone.
I am on-board with electronic delivery,
though I do admit it's
nice
to
just sit back and read a paper copy too.
It's also easier to
hand-off
to Sam so he can read it later. How do you
really fix that?
I would think (and I don't know), that the
ClubExpress membership
database might be able to include a
"preference" as part of the
member's
profile or details. Just as I can set an
address and phone
number,
if I
could check a box for Electronic delivery
or paper copies, or
both,
and
select whatever I wanted for each item
(Profiles versus
Newsletter),
that might be ideal.
However, I'm also familiar with quantity
discounting. It very
well
could be that it costs the same amount to
print 500 as it does to
print
50, or 10 (but I doubt it). I imagine
those are considerations
the
board will look at as well.
Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has
claimed, I have heard (from
more
than one person), that Jack and Mike did
not resign "because POCA
changed printers;" it was over "control"
of newsletter content
that
in
essence fell outside the bounds of the
by-laws. For a guy that
appeared
to try very hard to get everyone else to
follow the by-laws (and
it's
unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt
certainly didn't feel they
applied
to him.
For the record, as I understand it, POCA
has changed printers
-twice-
since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were
related to the DeRykes) got
out
of
the business. So the "family tie-in"
previously eluded to, was
not
a
factor in the resignations.
Just my $1.50 (two cents adjusted for
inflation)
Asa Jay
Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR,
Retired
& Shelley Marie
Spokane, WA
******************************
[35]http://w7tsc.org
[36]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by
POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
Megabytes
DeTomaso mailing list
[37]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
[38]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To manage your subscription (change email
address, unsubscribe,
etc.) use the links above.
Members who post to this list grant
license to the list to forward
any message posted here to all past,
current, or future members of
the list. They also grant the list owner
permission to maintain an
archive or approve the archiving of list
messages.
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by
POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
Megabytes
DeTomaso mailing list
[39]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
[40]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To manage your subscription (change email
address, unsubscribe, etc.)
use the links above.
Members who post to this list grant
license to the list to forward any
message posted here to all past, current,
or future members of the
list. They also grant the list owner
permission to maintain an archive
or approve the archiving of list
messages.
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 20:56:45 -0700
From: Michael Cox <[41]coxmichaelt at gmail.com>
To: [42]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] De Tomaso Pantera
GTS on eBay! again $250K!!
Message-ID:

<CAMPkPf3HQcqg5vLxgjpJP=7z=UBbrVs=[43]ynAnbzepC1U9QH+A_Q at mail.gmail
.com
>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> From: Ed Mendez <[44]edducati at mac.com>
> Subject: [DeTomaso] De Tomaso Pantera
GTS on eBay! again $250K!!
>
> Hi! I found this on eBay and thought
you might like it! Check it out
now! De Tomaso:
> Other Pantera GTS [45]http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
These guys found that ad too. :^)

[46]http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-panter
a-ha
s-only-785-miles-to-its-name/109069/
--michael cox
-------------- next part --------------
> From: Ed Mendez <[1][47]edducati at mac.com>
> Subject: [DeTomaso] De Tomaso Pantera
GTS on eBay! again $250K!!
>A
> Hi! I found this on eBay and thought
you might like it! Check it out
now!A De Tomaso:
> Other Pantera GTSA [2][48]http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
These guys found that ad too. A :^)

[3][49]http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-pan
tera
-has
-only-785-miles-to-its-name/109069/
A A --michael cox
References
1. [50]mailto:edducati at mac.com
2. [51]http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
3.

[52]http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-panter
a-ha
s-only-785-miles-to-its-name/109069/
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 08:05:15 -0700
From: "Stephen" <[53]steve at snclocks.com>
To: "'marshallgsmith'" <[54]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>,
<[55]P6746 at aol.com>,
<[56]asajay at asajay.com>,
<[57]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost,
paper vs. electronic
Message-ID:
<004701d1f706$6ead4a50$4c07def0$@snclocks.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Having been on Boards before - I'd suggest
the current Board deserves
some time to catch their breath and
recover from the situation they
have recently been through. It is amazing
how much time something like
this takes - and I suspect everyone on the
Board would like to catch up
on all the things they have let slide
while coping with the removal of
a president and all the animosity and
e-mails the whole mess generated.
It's so easy to ask questions - but takes
a lot more time to figure out
how to do everything asked below. For now,
let's just let the Board
recover and slowly get some of the loose
ends taken care of.
Stephen Nelson
-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso
[[58]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com]
On
Behalf Of marshallgsmith
Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2016 8:28 PM
To: [59]P6746 at aol.com; [60]asajay at asajay.com;
[61]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost,
paper vs. electronic
I have a couple questions Bob:
> Calling this situation "multiple dues
levels" seems to be making the
issue too complex. There are some members
that are opting to not have
printed magazines mailed which should make
those members eligible for a
discount because of the savings.
> What is your estimate of the length
of time that it would take the
board to arrange for a vote of the
membership to change the bylaws to
allow for this discount?
> Who specifically made that
apples-to-apples comparison you refer to?
> I agree that the editors should have
the most influence on the
process. However, our editors of both
publications seem to have a hard
time reporting to the members about ANY
issues pertaining to the
publication's themselves. Might that
change in the near future or will
radio silence be the norm here?
Marshall Smith
Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: P6746--- via DeTomaso
<[62]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Date: 8/14/16 3:10 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: [63]asajay at asajay.com,
[64]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost,
paper vs. electronic
To use a cliche, we're working on it.
Most of what has been mentioned is in the
pipeline. However, there are
restrictions, particularly with the
By-Laws as they currently stand.
There are no provisions for multiple dues
levels, particularly
pertaining to how a member elects to have
their club publications
delivered, etc. That will take time as any
changes or amendments must
be approved by the whole membership.
The consensus seems to be that the
Profiles would continue as a print
publication for all except foreign members
who elect to receive it
digitally.
As far as printing is concerned, it is
that first copy that is so
expensive, it is the subsequent copies
that bring down the per unit
cost. So as fewer units are produced and
shipped, the cost per unit
increases but not proportionately.
An apples to apples comparison was made
between an online printer and
the current printer for both printing and
mailing and the difference
was pennies. That wasn't pennies per unit
but for the whole run.
As far as I am concerned, it is the
editors who should have the most
influence as to how and where their
product is produced. They are the
ones who must work with the printers and
mailing houses on a regular
basis.
Bob Reid
In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M.
Eastern Daylight Time,
[65]asajay at asajay.com
writes:
The last I heard (and I may have heard
wrong), the board was interested
in doing a -real- accounting comparison of
printing costs, so for me,
it's a wait and see kind of thing. I
agree, if POCA was missing out on
full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W
then something is amiss.
However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't
account for all costs
properly. I have more faith that the
present board members will
properly investigate and sort it out for
everyone.
I am on-board with electronic delivery,
though I do admit it's nice to
just sit back and read a paper copy too.
It's also easier to hand-off
to Sam so he can read it later. How do you
really fix that?
I would think (and I don't know), that the
ClubExpress membership
database might be able to include a
"preference" as part of the
member's profile or details. Just as I can
set an address and phone
number, if I could check a box for
Electronic delivery or paper copies,
or both, and select whatever I wanted for
each item (Profiles versus
Newsletter), that might be ideal.
However, I'm also familiar with quantity
discounting. It very well
could be that it costs the same amount to
print 500 as it does to print
50, or 10 (but I doubt it). I imagine
those are considerations the
board will look at as well.
Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has
claimed, I have heard (from more
than one person), that Jack and Mike did
not resign "because POCA
changed printers;" it was over "control"
of newsletter content that in
essence fell outside the bounds of the
by-laws. For a guy that appeared
to try very hard to get everyone else to
follow the by-laws (and it's
unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt
certainly didn't feel they
applied to him.
For the record, as I understand it, POCA
has changed printers -twice-
since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were
related to the DeRykes) got out of
the business. So the "family tie-in"
previously eluded to, was not a
factor in the resignations.
Just my $1.50 (two cents adjusted for
inflation) Asa Jay
Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR,
Retired & Shelley Marie Spokane,
WA
******************************
[66]http://w7tsc.org
[67]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
Posted emails must not
exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing
list
[68]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
[69]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To manage your subscription (change email
address, unsubscribe, etc.)
use the links above.
Members who post to this list grant
license to the list to forward any
message posted here to all past, current,
or future members of the
list. They also grant the list owner
permission to maintain an archive
or approve the archiving of list
messages.
To use a cliche, we're working on it.
Most of what has been mentioned is in the
pipeline. However, there are
restrictions, particularly with the
By-Laws as they currently stand.
There are no provisions for multiple dues
levels,
particularly pertaining to how a member
elects to have their club
publications delivered, etc. That will
take time as any changes or
amendments must be approved by the whole
membership.
The consensus seems to be that the
Profiles would continue as a print
publication for all except foreign members
who elect to receive it
digitally.
As far as printing is concerned, it is
that first copy that is so
expensive, it is the subsequent copies
that bring down the per unit
cost. So as fewer units are produced and
shipped, the cost per unit
increases but not proportionately.
An apples to apples comparison was made
between an online printer and
the current printer for both printing and
mailing and the difference
was pennies. That wasn't pennies per unit
but for the whole run.
As far as I am concerned, it is the
editors who should have the most
influence as to how and where their
product is produced. They are the
ones who must work with the printers and
mailing houses on a regular
basis.
Bob Reid
In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M.
Eastern Daylight Time,
[70]asajay at asajay.com
writes:
The last I heard (and I may have heard
wrong), the board was
interested
in doing a -real- accounting comparison of
printing costs, so for
me,
it's a wait and see kind of thing. I
agree, if POCA was missing out
on
full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W
then something is amiss.
However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't
account for all costs
properly. I have more faith that the
present board members will
properly investigate and sort it out for
everyone.
I am on-board with electronic delivery,
though I do admit it's nice
to
just sit back and read a paper copy too.
It's also easier to
hand-off
to Sam so he can read it later. How do you
really fix that?
I would think (and I don't know), that the
ClubExpress membership
database might be able to include a
"preference" as part of the
member's
profile or details. Just as I can set an
address and phone number,
if I
could check a box for Electronic delivery
or paper copies, or both,
and
select whatever I wanted for each item
(Profiles versus Newsletter),
that might be ideal.
However, I'm also familiar with quantity
discounting. It very well
could be that it costs the same amount to
print 500 as it does to
print
50, or 10 (but I doubt it). I imagine
those are considerations the
board will look at as well.
Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has
claimed, I have heard (from
more
than one person), that Jack and Mike did
not resign "because POCA
changed printers;" it was over "control"
of newsletter content that
in
essence fell outside the bounds of the
by-laws. For a guy that
appeared
to try very hard to get everyone else to
follow the by-laws (and
it's
unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt
certainly didn't feel they
_______________________________________________


Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
DeTomaso mailing list
DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso

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Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
-------------- next part --------------
   150% Bill - especially when you have nothing to lie about.

   On Aug 15, 2016, at 07:01 PM, bill <bill at incendium.com> wrote:

   "If you tell the truth, you never have to remember what you said",,,,
   And it does not take an hour, a day , or a week to clarify.......
   Cheers
   Bill Moore
   Calgary
   -------- Original message --------
   From: Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com>
   Date: 2016-08-15 7:29 PM (GMT-07:00)
   To: [1]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com, [2]laurieferrari at aol.com,
   marshall
   smith <marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations
   I have digested all the emails on this topic and to be honest it still
   doesn't sit well in my gut.
   Presumably the BOD voted in favor of changing printers based upon the
   quotes presented. Did they not have all the facts and if not why did
   they not question further? Did Jack have all the facts when he resigned
   or were his and Mike Haney's resignations simply an outright stand
   against changing printer?
   Why did Michael push to change printer if he knew there was only
   pennies between it?
   Julian
   ________________________________
   From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of
   marshall smith <marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
   Sent: Monday, August 15, 2016 10:11 AM
   To: [3]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com; [4]laurieferrari at aol.com
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations
   I find it funny that three months after the Fun Rally we are now
   hearing that Shortt's bid for printing did not include shipping. Shortt
   is a lot of things but a mistake like this...?
   I was listening in on this meeting also and I know what I heard.
   Apparently, the board convinced 'some' members of this so-called
   discrepancy month's ago. Why wasn't this information, if it exists,
   relayed to ALL of us in a timely manner?
   Marshall
   --------------------------------------------
   On Mon, 8/15/16, Laurie Ferrari via DeTomaso
   <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations
   To: [5]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   Date: Monday, August 15, 2016, 9:57 AM
   Dear AJ,
   I have always respected you and your
   opinions but in this case you are
   incorrect as far as the resignation of
   Jack DeRyke. I was on the Board
   of Directors' conference call where he was
   asked to stay and he
   adamantly refused to if the printer
   changed. Jack's resignation was
   specifically because of the change in
   printer! You can go research
   that phone conference call, or the minutes
   of the meeting, as the facts
   are saved. As far as Mike Haney's
   resignation, that was done by his
   Mrs. for their reasons which most likely
   were aligned with their
   parents.
   Laurie
   In a message dated 8/13/2016
   9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,?
   [1]asajay at asajay.com
   writes:
   The last? I heard (and I may have
   heard wrong), the board was
   interested
   in doing a? -real- accounting
   comparison of printing costs, so for
   me,
   it's a wait and? see kind of
   thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing
   out on
   full-color? and paying $8,000 more
   for B/W then something is amiss.?
   However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt
   didn't account for all costs
   properly.? I? have more faith that
   the present board members will
   properly investigate? and sort it
   out for everyone.
   I am on-board with electronic
   delivery,? though I do admit it's nice
   to
   just sit back and read a paper
   copy? too.? It's also easier to
   hand-off
   to Sam so he can read it? later.?
   How do you really fix that?
   I would think (and I don't? know),
   that the ClubExpress membership
   database might be able to include
   a? "preference" as part of the
   member's
   profile or details.? Just as I? can
   set an address and phone number,
   if I
   could check a box for Electronic?
   delivery or paper copies, or both,
   and
   select whatever I wanted for each?
   item (Profiles versus
   Newsletter),
   that might be ideal.
   However,? I'm also familiar with
   quantity discounting.? It very well
   could be? that it costs the same
   amount to print 500 as it does to
   print
   50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I
   imagine those are considerations the
   board will? look at as well.
   Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie
   has claimed, I have? heard (from
   more
   than one person), that Jack and
   Mike did not resign? "because POCA
   changed printers;" it was over
   "control" of newsletter? content that
   in
   essence fell outside the bounds of
   the by-laws.? For? a guy that
   appeared
   to try very hard to get everyone
   else to follow the? by-laws (and
   it's
   unwritten code of ethics), Mr.
   Shortt certainly didn't? feel they
   applied
   to him.
   For the record, as I understand it,
   POCA? has changed printers
   -twice-
   since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were
   related? to the DeRykes) got out
   of
   the business.? So the "family
   tie-in"? previously eluded to, was not
   a
   factor in the resignations.
   Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted
   for inflation)
   Asa? Jay
   Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt,
   USAFR, Retired
   &? Shelley? Mar
   -----Original Message-----
   From: detomaso-request <detomaso-request at server.detomasolist.com>
   To: detomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
   Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2016 9:00 am
   Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 146, Issue
   20
   Send DeTomaso mailing list submissions to
   [2]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World
   Wide Web, visit
   [3][6]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
   or, via email, send a message with subject
   or body 'help' to
   detomaso-[4]request at server.detomasolist.com
   You can reach the person managing the list
   at
   detomaso-[5]owner at server.detomasolist.com
   When replying, please edit your Subject
   line so it is more specific
   than "Re: Contents of DeTomaso digest..."
   Daily Detomaso List Digest
   Today's Topics:
   1. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs.
   electronic (marshallgsmith)
   2. Re: De Tomaso Pantera GTS on eBay!
   again $250K!! (Michael Cox)
   3. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs.
   electronic (Stephen)
   ----------------------------------------------------------------------
   Message: 1
   Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 20:27:43 -0700
   From: marshallgsmith <[6]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
   To: [7]P6746 at aol.com, [8]asajay at asajay.com,
   [9]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost,
   paper vs. electronic
   Message-ID:
   <[10]sdxpj9k7caacwyvlamgw7uly.1471231663405 at email.android.com>
   Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
   I have a couple questions Bob:
   > Calling this situation "multiple dues
   levels" seems to be making the
   issue too complex. There are some members
   that are opting to not have
   printed magazines mailed which should make
   those members eligible for a
   discount because of the savings.
   > What is your estimate of the length
   of time that it would take the
   board to arrange for a vote of the
   membership to change the bylaws to
   allow for this discount?
   > Who specifically made that
   apples-to-apples comparison you refer to?
   > I agree that the editors should have
   the most influence ?on the
   process. ?However, our editors of both
   publications seem to have a hard
   time reporting to the members about ANY
   issues pertaining to the
   publication's themselves. Might that
   change in the near future or will
   radio silence be the norm here?
   Marshall Smith
   Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone
   -------- Original message --------
   From: P6746--- via DeTomaso <[11]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
   Date: 8/14/16 3:10 PM (GMT-08:00)
   To: [12]asajay at asajay.com,
   [13]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost,
   paper vs. electronic
   To use a cliche, we're working on it.?
   Most of what has been mentioned is in the
   pipeline.?? However, there
   are
   restrictions, particularly with the
   By-Laws as they currently? stand.?
   There
   are no provisions for multiple dues
   levels,? particularly pertaining to
   how a
   member elects to have their club?
   publications delivered, etc.? That
   will
   take time as any changes or? amendments
   must be approved by the whole
   membership.
   The consensus seems to be that the
   Profiles would? continue as a print
   publication for all except foreign members
   who elect to? receive it
   digitally.?
   As far as printing is concerned, it is
   that first copy that is? so
   expensive, it is the subsequent copies
   that bring down the per unit?
   cost.? So as
   fewer units are produced and shipped, the
   cost per unit? increases but
   not
   proportionately.??
   An apples to apples comparison was made
   between an online? printer and
   the
   current printer for both printing and
   mailing and the difference? was
   pennies.? That wasn't pennies per unit but
   for the whole run.?
   As far as I am concerned, it is the
   editors who should have? the most
   influence as to how and where their
   product is produced.? They are? the
   ones who
   must work with the printers and mailing
   houses on a regular? basis.
   Bob Reid?
   In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M.
   Eastern Daylight Time,?
   [14]asajay at asajay.com
   writes:
   The last? I heard (and I may have heard
   wrong), the board was
   interested
   in doing a? -real- accounting comparison
   of printing costs, so for me,
   it's a wait and? see kind of thing.? I
   agree, if POCA was missing out
   on
   full-color? and paying $8,000 more for B/W
   then something is amiss.?
   However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt didn't
   account for all costs
   properly.? I? have more faith that the
   present board members will
   properly investigate? and sort it out for
   everyone.
   I am on-board with electronic delivery,?
   though I do admit it's nice to
   just sit back and read a paper copy? too.?
   It's also easier to hand-off
   to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do
   you really fix that?
   I would think (and I don't? know), that
   the ClubExpress membership
   database might be able to include a?
   "preference" as part of the
   member's
   profile or details.? Just as I? can set an
   address and phone number, if
   I
   could check a box for Electronic? delivery
   or paper copies, or both,
   and
   select whatever I wanted for each? item
   (Profiles versus Newsletter),
   that might be ideal.
   However,? I'm also familiar with quantity
   discounting.? It very well
   could be? that it costs the same amount to
   print 500 as it does to
   print
   50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I imagine
   those are considerations the
   board will? look at as well.
   Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has
   claimed, I have? heard (from
   more
   than one person), that Jack and Mike did
   not resign? "because POCA
   changed printers;" it was over "control"
   of newsletter? content that in
   essence fell outside the bounds of the
   by-laws.? For? a guy that
   appeared
   to try very hard to get everyone else to
   follow the? by-laws (and it's
   unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt
   certainly didn't? feel they
   applied
   to him.
   For the record, as I understand it, POCA?
   has changed printers -twice-
   since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were
   related? to the DeRykes) got out of
   the business.? So the "family tie-in"?
   previously eluded to, was not a
   factor in the resignations.
   Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted for
   inflation)
   Asa? Jay
   Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR,
   Retired
   &? Shelley? Marie
   Spokane,? WA
   ******************************
   [15][7]http://w7tsc.org
   [16][8]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
   _______________________________________________
   Detomaso? Email List is not managed by
   POCA
   Posted emails must not exceed 1.5?
   Megabytes
   DeTomaso mailing? list
   [17]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   [18][9]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
   To? manage your subscription (change email
   address, unsubscribe, etc.)
   use
   the? links above.
   Members who post to this list grant
   license to the list to? forward any
   message posted here to all past, current,
   or future members of the?
   list. They
   also grant the list owner permission to
   maintain an archive or? approve
   the
   archiving of list? messages.
   ?? To use a cliche, we're working on it.
   ?? Most of what has been mentioned is in
   the pipeline.? However, there
   are
   ?? restrictions, particularly with the
   By-Laws as they currently stand.
   ?? There are no provisions for multiple
   dues levels,
   ?? particularly pertaining to how a member
   elects to have their club
   ?? publications delivered, etc.? That will
   take time as any changes or
   ?? amendments must be approved by the
   whole membership.
   ?? The consensus seems to be that the
   Profiles would continue as a
   print
   ?? publication for all except foreign
   members who elect to receive it
   ?? digitally.
   ?? As far as printing is concerned, it is
   that first copy that is so
   ?? expensive, it is the subsequent copies
   that bring down the per unit
   ?? cost.? So as fewer units are produced
   and shipped, the cost per unit
   ?? increases but not proportionately.
   ?? An apples to apples comparison was made
   between an online printer
   and
   ?? the current printer for both printing
   and mailing and the difference
   ?? was pennies.? That wasn't pennies per
   unit but for the whole run.
   ?? As far as I am concerned, it is the
   editors who should have the most
   ?? influence as to how and where their
   product is produced.? They are
   the
   ?? ones who must work with the printers
   and mailing houses on a regular
   ?? basis.
   ?? Bob Reid
   ?? In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24
   P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
   ?? [19]asajay at asajay.com
   writes:
   ???? The last I heard (and I may have
   heard wrong), the board was
   ???? interested
   ???? in doing a -real- accounting
   comparison of printing costs, so for
   ???? me,
   ???? it's a wait and see kind of thing.? I
   agree, if POCA was missing
   out
   ???? on
   ???? full-color and paying $8,000 more for
   B/W then something is amiss.
   ???? However, I also believe Mr. Shortt
   didn't account for all costs
   ???? properly.? I have more faith that the
   present board members will
   ???? properly investigate and sort it out
   for everyone.
   ???? I am on-board with electronic
   delivery, though I do admit it's
   nice
   ???? to
   ???? just sit back and read a paper copy
   too.? It's also easier to
   ???? hand-off
   ???? to Sam so he can read it later.? How
   do you really fix that?
   ???? I would think (and I don't know),
   that the ClubExpress membership
   ???? database might be able to include a
   "preference" as part of the
   ???? member's
   ???? profile or details.? Just as I can
   set an address and phone
   number,
   ???? if I
   ???? could check a box for Electronic
   delivery or paper copies, or
   both,
   ???? and
   ???? select whatever I wanted for each
   item (Profiles versus
   Newsletter),
   ???? that might be ideal.
   ???? However, I'm also familiar with
   quantity discounting.? It very
   well
   ???? could be that it costs the same
   amount to print 500 as it does to
   ???? print
   ???? 50, or 10 (but I doubt it).? I
   imagine those are considerations
   the
   ???? board will look at as well.
   ???? Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie
   has claimed, I have heard (from
   ???? more
   ???? than one person), that Jack and Mike
   did not resign "because POCA
   ???? changed printers;" it was over
   "control" of newsletter content
   that
   ???? in
   ???? essence fell outside the bounds of
   the by-laws.? For a guy that
   ???? appeared
   ???? to try very hard to get everyone else
   to follow the by-laws (and
   ???? it's
   ???? unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt
   certainly didn't feel they
   ???? applied
   ???? to him.
   ???? For the record, as I understand it,
   POCA has changed printers
   ???? -twice-
   ???? since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were
   related to the DeRykes) got
   out
   ???? of
   ???? the business.? So the "family tie-in"
   previously eluded to, was
   not
   ???? a
   ???? factor in the resignations.
   ???? Just my $1.50? (two cents adjusted
   for inflation)
   ???? Asa? Jay
   ???? Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt,
   USAFR, Retired
   ???? &? Shelley Marie
   ???? Spokane, WA
   ???? ******************************
   ???? [20][10]http://w7tsc.org
   ???? [21][11]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
   ????
   _______________________________________________
   ???? Detomaso Email List is not managed by
   POCA
   ???? Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
   Megabytes
   ???? DeTomaso mailing list
   ???? [22]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   ???? [23][12]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
   ???? To manage your subscription (change
   email address, unsubscribe,
   ???? etc.) use the links above.
   ???? Members who post to this list grant
   license to the list to forward
   ???? any message posted here to all past,
   current, or future members of
   ???? the list. They also grant the list
   owner permission to maintain an
   ???? archive or approve the archiving of
   list messages.
   _______________________________________________
   Detomaso Email List is not managed by
   POCA
   Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
   Megabytes
   DeTomaso mailing list
   [24]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   [25][13]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
   To manage your subscription (change email
   address, unsubscribe, etc.)
   use the links above.
   Members who post to this list grant
   license to the list to forward any
   message posted here to all past, current,
   or future members of the
   list. They also grant the list owner
   permission to maintain an archive
   or approve the archiving of list
   messages.
   -------------- next part --------------
   I have a couple questions Bob:
   > Calling this situation "multiple dues
   levels" seems to be making the
   issue too complex. There are some members
   that are opting to not have
   printed magazines mailed which should make
   those members eligible for a
   discount because of the savings.
   > What is your estimate of the length
   of time that it would take the
   board to arrange for a vote of the
   membership to change the bylaws to
   allow for this discount?
   > Who specifically made that
   apples-to-apples comparison you refer to?
   > I agree that the editors should have
   the most influence on the
   process. However, our editors of both
   publications seem to have a hard
   time reporting to the members about ANY
   issues pertaining to the
   publication's themselves. Might that
   change in the near future or will
   radio silence be the norm here?
   Marshall Smith
   Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone
   -------- Original message --------
   From: P6746--- via DeTomaso <[26]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
   Date: 8/14/16 3:10 PM (GMT-08:00)
   To: [27]asajay at asajay.com,
   [28]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost,
   paper vs. electronic
   To use a cliche, we're working on it.
   Most of what has been mentioned is in the
   pipeline. However, there
   are
   restrictions, particularly with the
   By-Laws as they currently stand.
   There
   are no provisions for multiple dues
   levels, particularly pertaining to
   how a
   member elects to have their club
   publications delivered, etc. That
   will
   take time as any changes or amendments
   must be approved by the whole
   membership.
   The consensus seems to be that the
   Profiles would continue as a print
   publication for all except foreign members
   who elect to receive it
   digitally.
   As far as printing is concerned, it is
   that first copy that is so
   expensive, it is the subsequent copies
   that bring down the per unit
   cost. So as
   fewer units are produced and shipped, the
   cost per unit increases but
   not
   proportionately.
   An apples to apples comparison was made
   between an online printer and
   the
   current printer for both printing and
   mailing and the difference was
   pennies. That wasn't pennies per unit but
   for the whole run.
   As far as I am concerned, it is the
   editors who should have the most
   influence as to how and where their
   product is produced. They are the
   ones who
   must work with the printers and mailing
   houses on a regular basis.
   Bob Reid
   In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M.
   Eastern Daylight Time,
   [29]asajay at asajay.com
   writes:
   The last I heard (and I may have heard
   wrong), the board was
   interested
   in doing a -real- accounting comparison of
   printing costs, so for me,
   it's a wait and see kind of thing. I
   agree, if POCA was missing out
   on
   full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W
   then something is amiss.
   However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't
   account for all costs
   properly. I have more faith that the
   present board members will
   properly investigate and sort it out for
   everyone.
   I am on-board with electronic delivery,
   though I do admit it's nice to
   just sit back and read a paper copy too.
   It's also easier to hand-off
   to Sam so he can read it later. How do you
   really fix that?
   I would think (and I don't know), that the
   ClubExpress membership
   database might be able to include a
   "preference" as part of the
   member's
   profile or details. Just as I can set an
   address and phone number, if
   I
   could check a box for Electronic delivery
   or paper copies, or both,
   and
   select whatever I wanted for each item
   (Profiles versus Newsletter),
   that might be ideal.
   However, I'm also familiar with quantity
   discounting. It very well
   could be that it costs the same amount to
   print 500 as it does to
   print
   50, or 10 (but I doubt it). I imagine
   those are considerations the
   board will look at as well.
   Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has
   claimed, I have heard (from
   more
   than one person), that Jack and Mike did
   not resign "because POCA
   changed printers;" it was over "control"
   of newsletter content that in
   essence fell outside the bounds of the
   by-laws. For a guy that
   appeared
   to try very hard to get everyone else to
   follow the by-laws (and it's
   unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt
   certainly didn't feel they
   applied
   to him.
   For the record, as I understand it, POCA
   has changed printers -twice-
   since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were
   related to the DeRykes) got out of
   the business. So the "family tie-in"
   previously eluded to, was not a
   factor in the resignations.
   Just my $1.50 (two cents adjusted for
   inflation)
   Asa Jay
   Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR,
   Retired
   & Shelley Marie
   Spokane, WA
   ******************************
   [30][14]http://w7tsc.org
   [31][15]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
   _______________________________________________
   Detomaso Email List is not managed by
   POCA
   Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
   Megabytes
   DeTomaso mailing list
   [32]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   [33][16]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
   To manage your subscription (change email
   address, unsubscribe, etc.)
   use
   the links above.
   Members who post to this list grant
   license to the list to forward any
   message posted here to all past, current,
   or future members of the
   list. They
   also grant the list owner permission to
   maintain an archive or approve
   the
   archiving of list messages.
   To use a cliche, we're working on it.
   Most of what has been mentioned is in the
   pipeline. However, there
   are
   restrictions, particularly with the
   By-Laws as they currently stand.
   There are no provisions for multiple dues
   levels,
   particularly pertaining to how a member
   elects to have their club
   publications delivered, etc. That will
   take time as any changes or
   amendments must be approved by the whole
   membership.
   The consensus seems to be that the
   Profiles would continue as a
   print
   publication for all except foreign members
   who elect to receive it
   digitally.
   As far as printing is concerned, it is
   that first copy that is so
   expensive, it is the subsequent copies
   that bring down the per unit
   cost. So as fewer units are produced and
   shipped, the cost per unit
   increases but not proportionately.
   An apples to apples comparison was made
   between an online printer
   and
   the current printer for both printing and
   mailing and the difference
   was pennies. That wasn't pennies per unit
   but for the whole run.
   As far as I am concerned, it is the
   editors who should have the most
   influence as to how and where their
   product is produced. They are
   the
   ones who must work with the printers and
   mailing houses on a regular
   basis.
   Bob Reid
   In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M.
   Eastern Daylight Time,
   [34]asajay at asajay.com
   writes:
   The last I heard (and I may have heard
   wrong), the board was
   interested
   in doing a -real- accounting comparison of
   printing costs, so for
   me,
   it's a wait and see kind of thing. I
   agree, if POCA was missing
   out
   on
   full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W
   then something is amiss.
   However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't
   account for all costs
   properly. I have more faith that the
   present board members will
   properly investigate and sort it out for
   everyone.
   I am on-board with electronic delivery,
   though I do admit it's
   nice
   to
   just sit back and read a paper copy too.
   It's also easier to
   hand-off
   to Sam so he can read it later. How do you
   really fix that?
   I would think (and I don't know), that the
   ClubExpress membership
   database might be able to include a
   "preference" as part of the
   member's
   profile or details. Just as I can set an
   address and phone
   number,
   if I
   could check a box for Electronic delivery
   or paper copies, or
   both,
   and
   select whatever I wanted for each item
   (Profiles versus
   Newsletter),
   that might be ideal.
   However, I'm also familiar with quantity
   discounting. It very
   well
   could be that it costs the same amount to
   print 500 as it does to
   print
   50, or 10 (but I doubt it). I imagine
   those are considerations
   the
   board will look at as well.
   Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has
   claimed, I have heard (from
   more
   than one person), that Jack and Mike did
   not resign "because POCA
   changed printers;" it was over "control"
   of newsletter content
   that
   in
   essence fell outside the bounds of the
   by-laws. For a guy that
   appeared
   to try very hard to get everyone else to
   follow the by-laws (and
   it's
   unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt
   certainly didn't feel they
   applied
   to him.
   For the record, as I understand it, POCA
   has changed printers
   -twice-
   since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were
   related to the DeRykes) got
   out
   of
   the business. So the "family tie-in"
   previously eluded to, was
   not
   a
   factor in the resignations.
   Just my $1.50 (two cents adjusted for
   inflation)
   Asa Jay
   Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR,
   Retired
   & Shelley Marie
   Spokane, WA
   ******************************
   [35][17]http://w7tsc.org
   [36][18]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
   _______________________________________________
   Detomaso Email List is not managed by
   POCA
   Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
   Megabytes
   DeTomaso mailing list
   [37]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   [38][19]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
   To manage your subscription (change email
   address, unsubscribe,
   etc.) use the links above.
   Members who post to this list grant
   license to the list to forward
   any message posted here to all past,
   current, or future members of
   the list. They also grant the list owner
   permission to maintain an
   archive or approve the archiving of list
   messages.
   _______________________________________________
   Detomaso Email List is not managed by
   POCA
   Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
   Megabytes
   DeTomaso mailing list
   [39]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   [40][20]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
   To manage your subscription (change email
   address, unsubscribe, etc.)
   use the links above.
   Members who post to this list grant
   license to the list to forward any
   message posted here to all past, current,
   or future members of the
   list. They also grant the list owner
   permission to maintain an archive
   or approve the archiving of list
   messages.
   ------------------------------
   Message: 2
   Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 20:56:45 -0700
   From: Michael Cox <[41]coxmichaelt at gmail.com>
   To: [42]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] De Tomaso Pantera
   GTS on eBay! again $250K!!
   Message-ID:
   <CAMPkPf3HQcqg5vLxgjpJP=7z=UBbrVs=[43]ynAnbzepC1U9QH+A_Q at mail.gmail.com
   >
   Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
   > From: Ed Mendez <[44]edducati at mac.com>
   > Subject: [DeTomaso] De Tomaso Pantera
   GTS on eBay! again $250K!!
   >
   > Hi! I found this on eBay and thought
   you might like it! Check it out
   now! De Tomaso:
   > Other Pantera GTS [45][21]http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
   These guys found that ad too. :^)
   [46][22]http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-panter
   a-ha
   s-only-785-miles-to-its-name/109069/
   --michael cox
   -------------- next part --------------
   > From: Ed Mendez <[1][47]edducati at mac.com>
   > Subject: [DeTomaso] De Tomaso Pantera
   GTS on eBay! again $250K!!
   >A
   > Hi! I found this on eBay and thought
   you might like it! Check it out
   now!A De Tomaso:
   > Other Pantera GTSA [2][48][23]http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
   These guys found that ad too. A :^)
   [3][49][24]http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-pan
   tera
   -has
   -only-785-miles-to-its-name/109069/
   A A --michael cox
   References
   1. [50]mailto:edducati at mac.com
   2. [51][25]http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
   3.
   [52][26]http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-panter
   a-ha
   s-only-785-miles-to-its-name/109069/
   ------------------------------
   Message: 3
   Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 08:05:15 -0700
   From: "Stephen" <[53]steve at snclocks.com>
   To: "'marshallgsmith'" <[54]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>,
   <[55]P6746 at aol.com>,
   <[56]asajay at asajay.com>,
   <[57]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost,
   paper vs. electronic
   Message-ID:
   <004701d1f706$6ead4a50$4c07def0$@snclocks.com>
   Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
   Having been on Boards before - I'd suggest
   the current Board deserves
   some time to catch their breath and
   recover from the situation they
   have recently been through. It is amazing
   how much time something like
   this takes - and I suspect everyone on the
   Board would like to catch up
   on all the things they have let slide
   while coping with the removal of
   a president and all the animosity and
   e-mails the whole mess generated.
   It's so easy to ask questions - but takes
   a lot more time to figure out
   how to do everything asked below. For now,
   let's just let the Board
   recover and slowly get some of the loose
   ends taken care of.
   Stephen Nelson
   -----Original Message-----
   From: DeTomaso
   [[58]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com]
   On
   Behalf Of marshallgsmith
   Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2016 8:28 PM
   To: [59]P6746 at aol.com; [60]asajay at asajay.com;
   [61]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost,
   paper vs. electronic
   I have a couple questions Bob:
   > Calling this situation "multiple dues
   levels" seems to be making the
   issue too complex. There are some members
   that are opting to not have
   printed magazines mailed which should make
   those members eligible for a
   discount because of the savings.
   > What is your estimate of the length
   of time that it would take the
   board to arrange for a vote of the
   membership to change the bylaws to
   allow for this discount?
   > Who specifically made that
   apples-to-apples comparison you refer to?
   > I agree that the editors should have
   the most influence on the
   process. However, our editors of both
   publications seem to have a hard
   time reporting to the members about ANY
   issues pertaining to the
   publication's themselves. Might that
   change in the near future or will
   radio silence be the norm here?
   Marshall Smith
   Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone
   -------- Original message --------
   From: P6746--- via DeTomaso <[62]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
   Date: 8/14/16 3:10 PM (GMT-08:00)
   To: [63]asajay at asajay.com,
   [64]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost,
   paper vs. electronic
   To use a cliche, we're working on it.
   Most of what has been mentioned is in the
   pipeline. However, there are
   restrictions, particularly with the
   By-Laws as they currently stand.
   There are no provisions for multiple dues
   levels, particularly
   pertaining to how a member elects to have
   their club publications
   delivered, etc. That will take time as any
   changes or amendments must
   be approved by the whole membership.
   The consensus seems to be that the
   Profiles would continue as a print
   publication for all except foreign members
   who elect to receive it
   digitally.
   As far as printing is concerned, it is
   that first copy that is so
   expensive, it is the subsequent copies
   that bring down the per unit
   cost. So as fewer units are produced and
   shipped, the cost per unit
   increases but not proportionately.
   An apples to apples comparison was made
   between an online printer and
   the current printer for both printing and
   mailing and the difference
   was pennies. That wasn't pennies per unit
   but for the whole run.
   As far as I am concerned, it is the
   editors who should have the most
   influence as to how and where their
   product is produced. They are the
   ones who must work with the printers and
   mailing houses on a regular
   basis.
   Bob Reid
   In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M.
   Eastern Daylight Time,
   [65]asajay at asajay.com
   writes:
   The last I heard (and I may have heard
   wrong), the board was interested
   in doing a -real- accounting comparison of
   printing costs, so for me,
   it's a wait and see kind of thing. I
   agree, if POCA was missing out on
   full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W
   then something is amiss.
   However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't
   account for all costs
   properly. I have more faith that the
   present board members will
   properly investigate and sort it out for
   everyone.
   I am on-board with electronic delivery,
   though I do admit it's nice to
   just sit back and read a paper copy too.
   It's also easier to hand-off
   to Sam so he can read it later. How do you
   really fix that?
   I would think (and I don't know), that the
   ClubExpress membership
   database might be able to include a
   "preference" as part of the
   member's profile or details. Just as I can
   set an address and phone
   number, if I could check a box for
   Electronic delivery or paper copies,
   or both, and select whatever I wanted for
   each item (Profiles versus
   Newsletter), that might be ideal.
   However, I'm also familiar with quantity
   discounting. It very well
   could be that it costs the same amount to
   print 500 as it does to print
   50, or 10 (but I doubt it). I imagine
   those are considerations the
   board will look at as well.
   Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has
   claimed, I have heard (from more
   than one person), that Jack and Mike did
   not resign "because POCA
   changed printers;" it was over "control"
   of newsletter content that in
   essence fell outside the bounds of the
   by-laws. For a guy that appeared
   to try very hard to get everyone else to
   follow the by-laws (and it's
   unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt
   certainly didn't feel they
   applied to him.
   For the record, as I understand it, POCA
   has changed printers -twice-
   since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were
   related to the DeRykes) got out of
   the business. So the "family tie-in"
   previously eluded to, was not a
   factor in the resignations.
   Just my $1.50 (two cents adjusted for
   inflation) Asa Jay
   Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR,
   Retired & Shelley Marie Spokane,
   WA
   ******************************
   [66][27]http://w7tsc.org
   [67][28]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
   _______________________________________________
   Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
   Posted emails must not
   exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing
   list
   [68]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   [69][29]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
   To manage your subscription (change email
   address, unsubscribe, etc.)
   use the links above.
   Members who post to this list grant
   license to the list to forward any
   message posted here to all past, current,
   or future members of the
   list. They also grant the list owner
   permission to maintain an archive
   or approve the archiving of list
   messages.
   To use a cliche, we're working on it.
   Most of what has been mentioned is in the
   pipeline. However, there are
   restrictions, particularly with the
   By-Laws as they currently stand.
   There are no provisions for multiple dues
   levels,
   particularly pertaining to how a member
   elects to have their club
   publications delivered, etc. That will
   take time as any changes or
   amendments must be approved by the whole
   membership.
   The consensus seems to be that the
   Profiles would continue as a print
   publication for all except foreign members
   who elect to receive it
   digitally.
   As far as printing is concerned, it is
   that first copy that is so
   expensive, it is the subsequent copies
   that bring down the per unit
   cost. So as fewer units are produced and
   shipped, the cost per unit
   increases but not proportionately.
   An apples to apples comparison was made
   between an online printer and
   the current printer for both printing and
   mailing and the difference
   was pennies. That wasn't pennies per unit
   but for the whole run.
   As far as I am concerned, it is the
   editors who should have the most
   influence as to how and where their
   product is produced. They are the
   ones who must work with the printers and
   mailing houses on a regular
   basis.
   Bob Reid
   In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M.
   Eastern Daylight Time,
   [70]asajay at asajay.com
   writes:
   The last I heard (and I may have heard
   wrong), the board was
   interested
   in doing a -real- accounting comparison of
   printing costs, so for
   me,
   it's a wait and see kind of thing. I
   agree, if POCA was missing out
   on
   full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W
   then something is amiss.
   However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't
   account for all costs
   properly. I have more faith that the
   present board members will
   properly investigate and sort it out for
   everyone.
   I am on-board with electronic delivery,
   though I do admit it's nice
   to
   just sit back and read a paper copy too.
   It's also easier to
   hand-off
   to Sam so he can read it later. How do you
   really fix that?
   I would think (and I don't know), that the
   ClubExpress membership
   database might be able to include a
   "preference" as part of the
   member's
   profile or details. Just as I can set an
   address and phone number,
   if I
   could check a box for Electronic delivery
   or paper copies, or both,
   and
   select whatever I wanted for each item
   (Profiles versus Newsletter),
   that might be ideal.
   However, I'm also familiar with quantity
   discounting. It very well
   could be that it costs the same amount to
   print 500 as it does to
   print
   50, or 10 (but I doubt it). I imagine
   those are considerations the
   board will look at as well.
   Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has
   claimed, I have heard (from
   more
   than one person), that Jack and Mike did
   not resign "because POCA
   changed printers;" it was over "control"
   of newsletter content that
   in
   essence fell outside the bounds of the
   by-laws. For a guy that
   appeared
   to try very hard to get everyone else to
   follow the by-laws (and
   it's
   unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt
   certainly didn't feel they
   applied
   to him.
   For the record, as I understand it, POCA
   has changed printers
   -twice-
   since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were
   related to the DeRykes) got out
   of
   the business. So the "family tie-in"
   previously eluded to, was not
   a
   factor in the resignations.
   Just my $1.50 (two cents adjusted for
   inflation)
   Asa Jay
   Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR,
   Retired
   & Shelley Marie
   Spokane, WA
   ******************************
   [71][30]http://w7tsc.org
   [72][31]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
   _______________________________________________
   Detomaso Email List is not managed by
   POCA
   Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
   Megabytes
   DeTomaso mailing list
   [73]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   [74][32]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
   To manage your subscription (change email
   address, unsubscribe,
   etc.) use the links above.
   Members who post to this list grant
   license to the list to forward
   any message posted here to all past,
   current, or future members of
   the list. They also grant the list owner
   permission to maintain an
   archive or approve the archiving of list
   messages.
   _______________________________________________
   Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
   Posted emails must not
   exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing
   list
   [75]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   [76][33]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
   To manage your subscription (change email
   address, unsubscribe, etc.)
   use the links above.
   Members who post to this list grant
   license to the list to forward any
   message posted here to all past, current,
   or future members of the
   list. They also grant the list owner
   permission to maintain an archive
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   End of DeTomaso Digest, Vol 146, Issue 20
   *****************************************
   References
   1. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
   2. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   3. [35]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
   4. mailto:request at server.detomasolist.com
   5. mailto:owner at server.detomasolist.com
   6. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
   7. mailto:P6746 at aol.com
   8. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
   9. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   10. mailto:sdxpj9k7caacwyvlamgw7uly.1471231663405 at email.android.com
   11. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   12. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
   13. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   14. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
   15. [36]http://w7tsc.org/
   16. [37]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
   17. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   18. [38]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
   19. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
   20. [39]http://w7tsc.org/
   21. [40]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
   22. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   23. [41]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
   24. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   25. [42]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
   26. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   27. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
   28. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   29. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
   30. [43]http://w7tsc.org/
   31. [44]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
   32. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   33. [45]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
   34. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
   35. [46]http://w7tsc.org/
   36. [47]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
   37. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   38. [48]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
   39. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   40. [49]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
   41. mailto:coxmichaelt at gmail.com
   42. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   43. mailto:ynAnbzepC1U9QH+A_Q at mail.gmail.com
   44. mailto:edducati at mac.com
   45. [50]http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
   46.
   [51]http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-pantera-ha
   s-on
   ly-785-miles-to-its-name/109069/
   47. mailto:edducati at mac.com
   48. [52]http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
   49.
   [53]http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-pantera-ha
   s
   50. mailto:edducati at mac.com?
   51. [54]http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
   52.
   [55]http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-pantera-ha
   s-on
   ly-785-miles-to-its-name/109069/
   53. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
   54. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
   55. mailto:P6746 at aol.com
   56. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
   57. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   58. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com?
   59. mailto:P6746 at aol.com
   60. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
   61. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   62. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   63. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
   64. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   65. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
   66. [56]http://w7tsc.org/
   67. [57]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
   68. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   69. [58]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
   70. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
   71. [59]http://w7tsc.org/
   72. [60]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
   73. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   74. [61]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
   75. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   76. [62]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
   77. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   78. [63]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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   I have digested all the emails on this topic and to be honest it
   still
   doesn't sit well in my gut.
   Presumably the BOD voted in favor of changing printers based upon
   the
   quotes presented. Did they not have all the facts and
   if not why did they not question further? Did Jack have all the
   facts w
   hen he resigned or were his and Mike Haney's resignations simply an
   outright stand against changing printer?
   Why did Michael push to change printer if he knew there was only
   pennies between it?
   Julian
   __________________________________________________________________
   From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf
   of
   marshall smith <marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
   Sent: Monday, August 15, 2016 10:11 AM
   To: [68]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com; [69]laurieferrari at aol.com
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations
   I find it funny that three months after the Fun Rally we are now
   hearing that Shortt's bid for printing did not include shipping.
   Shortt
   is a lot of things but a mistake like this...?
   I was listening in on this meeting also and I know what I heard.
   Apparently, the board convinced 'some' members of this so-called
   discrepancy month's ago. Why wasn't this information, if it exists,
   relayed to ALL of us in a timely manner?
   Marshall
   --------------------------------------------
   On Mon, 8/15/16, Laurie Ferrari via DeTomaso
   <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations
   To: [70]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   Date: Monday, August 15, 2016, 9:57 AM
   Dear AJ,
   I have always respected you and your
   opinions but in this case you are
   incorrect as far as the resignation of
   Jack DeRyke. I was on the Board
   of Directors' conference call where he was
   asked to stay and he
   adamantly refused to if the printer
   changed. Jack's resignation was
   specifically because of the change in
   printer! You can go research
   that phone conference call, or the minutes
   of the meeting, as the facts
   are saved. As far as Mike Haney's
   resignation, that was done by his
   Mrs. for their reasons which most likely
   were aligned with their
   parents.
   Laurie
   In a message dated 8/13/2016
   9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,?
   [1]asajay at asajay.com
   writes:
   The last? I heard (and I may have
   heard wrong), the board was
   interested
   in doing a? -real- accounting
   comparison of printing costs, so for
   me,
   it's a wait and? see kind of
   thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing
   out on
   full-color? and paying $8,000 more
   for B/W then something is amiss.?
   However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt
   didn't account for all costs
   properly.? I? have more faith that
   the present board members will
   properly investigate? and sort it
   out for everyone.
   I am on-board with electronic
   delivery,? though I do admit it's nice
   to
   just sit back and read a paper
   copy? too.? It's also easier to
   hand-off
   to Sam so he can read it? later.?
   How do you really fix that?
   I would think (and I don't? know),
   that the ClubExpress membership
   database might be able to include
   a? "preference" as part of the
   member's
   profile or details.? Just as I? can
   set an address and phone number,
   if I
   could check a box for Electronic?
   delivery or paper copies, or both,
   and
   select whatever I wanted for each?
   item (Profiles versus
   Newsletter),
   that might be ideal.
   However,? I'm also familiar with
   quantity discounting.? It very well
   could be? that it costs the same
   amount to print 500 as it does to
   print
   50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I
   imagine those are considerations the
   board will? look at as well.
   Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie
   has claimed, I have? heard (from
   more
   than one person), that Jack and
   Mike did not resign? "because POCA
   changed printers;" it was over
   "control" of newsletter? content that
   in
   essence fell outside the bounds of
   the by-laws.? For? a guy that
   appeared
   to try very hard to get everyone
   else to follow the? by-laws (and
   it's
   unwritten code of ethics), Mr.
   Shortt certainly didn't? feel they
   applied
   to him.
   For the record, as I understand it,
   POCA? has changed printers
   -twice-
   since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were
   related? to the DeRykes) got out
   of
   the business.? So the "family
   tie-in"? previously eluded to, was not
   a
   factor in the resignations.
   Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted
   for inflation)
   Asa? Jay
   Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt,
   USAFR, Retired
   &? Shelley? Mar
   -----Original Message-----
   From: detomaso-request
   <detomaso-request at server.detomasolist.com>
   To: detomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
   Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2016 9:00 am
   Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 146, Issue
   20
   Send DeTomaso mailing list submissions to
   [2]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World
   Wide Web, visit
   [3][71]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
   or, via email, send a message with subject
   or body 'help' to
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   When replying, please edit your Subject
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   than "Re: Contents of DeTomaso digest..."
   Daily Detomaso List Digest
   Today's Topics:
   1. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs.
   electronic (marshallgsmith)
   2. Re: De Tomaso Pantera GTS on eBay!
   again $250K!! (Michael Cox)
   3. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs.
   electronic (Stephen)
   -------------------------------------------------------------------
   ---
   Message: 1
   Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 20:27:43 -0700
   From: marshallgsmith <[6]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
   To: [7]P6746 at aol.com, [8]asajay at asajay.com,
   [9]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost,
   paper vs. electronic
   Message-ID:
   <[10]sdxpj9k7caacwyvlamgw7uly.1471231663405 at email.android.com>
   Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
   I have a couple questions Bob:
   > Calling this situation "multiple dues
   levels" seems to be making the
   issue too complex. There are some members
   that are opting to not have
   printed magazines mailed which should make
   those members eligible for a
   discount because of the savings.
   > What is your estimate of the length
   of time that it would take the
   board to arrange for a vote of the
   membership to change the bylaws to
   allow for this discount?
   > Who specifically made that
   apples-to-apples comparison you refer to?
   > I agree that the editors should have
   the most influence ?on the
   process. ?However, our editors of both
   publications seem to have a hard
   time reporting to the members about ANY
   issues pertaining to the
   publication's themselves. Might that
   change in the near future or will
   radio silence be the norm here?
   Marshall Smith
   Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone
   -------- Original message --------
   From: P6746--- via DeTomaso
   <[11]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
   Date: 8/14/16 3:10 PM (GMT-08:00)
   To: [12]asajay at asajay.com,
   [13]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost,
   paper vs. electronic
   To use a cliche, we're working on it.?
   Most of what has been mentioned is in the
   pipeline.?? However, there
   are
   restrictions, particularly with the
   By-Laws as they currently? stand.?
   There
   are no provisions for multiple dues
   levels,? particularly pertaining to
   how a
   member elects to have their club?
   publications delivered, etc.? That
   will
   take time as any changes or? amendments
   must be approved by the whole
   membership.
   The consensus seems to be that the
   Profiles would? continue as a print
   publication for all except foreign members
   who elect to? receive it
   digitally.?
   As far as printing is concerned, it is
   that first copy that is? so
   expensive, it is the subsequent copies
   that bring down the per unit?
   cost.? So as
   fewer units are produced and shipped, the
   cost per unit? increases but
   not
   proportionately.??
   An apples to apples comparison was made
   between an online? printer and
   the
   current printer for both printing and
   mailing and the difference? was
   pennies.? That wasn't pennies per unit but
   for the whole run.?
   As far as I am concerned, it is the
   editors who should have? the most
   influence as to how and where their
   product is produced.? They are? the
   ones who
   must work with the printers and mailing
   houses on a regular? basis.
   Bob Reid?
   In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M.
   Eastern Daylight Time,?
   [14]asajay at asajay.com
   writes:
   The last? I heard (and I may have heard
   wrong), the board was
   interested
   in doing a? -real- accounting comparison
   of printing costs, so for me,
   it's a wait and? see kind of thing.? I
   agree, if POCA was missing out
   on
   full-color? and paying $8,000 more for B/W
   then something is amiss.?
   However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt didn't
   account for all costs
   properly.? I? have more faith that the
   present board members will
   properly investigate? and sort it out for
   everyone.
   I am on-board with electronic delivery,?
   though I do admit it's nice to
   just sit back and read a paper copy? too.?
   It's also easier to hand-off
   to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do
   you really fix that?
   I would think (and I don't? know), that
   the ClubExpress membership
   database might be able to include a?
   "preference" as part of the
   member's
   profile or details.? Just as I? can set an
   address and phone number, if
   I
   could check a box for Electronic? delivery
   or paper copies, or both,
   and
   select whatever I wanted for each? item
   (Profiles versus Newsletter),
   that might be ideal.
   However,? I'm also familiar with quantity
   discounting.? It very well
   could be? that it costs the same amount to
   print 500 as it does to
   print
   50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I imagine
   those are considerations the
   board will? look at as well.
   Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has
   claimed, I have? heard (from
   more
   than one person), that Jack and Mike did
   not resign? "because POCA
   changed printers;" it was over "control"
   of newsletter? content that in
   essence fell outside the bounds of the
   by-laws.? For? a guy that
   appeared
   to try very hard to get everyone else to
   follow the? by-laws (and it's
   unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt
   certainly didn't? feel they
   applied
   to him.
   For the record, as I understand it, POCA?
   has changed printers -twice-
   since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were
   related? to the DeRykes) got out of
   the business.? So the "family tie-in"?
   previously eluded to, was not a
   factor in the resignations.
   Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted for
   inflation)
   Asa? Jay
   Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR,
   Retired
   &? Shelley? Marie
   Spokane,? WA
   ******************************
   [15][72]http://w7tsc.org
   [16][73]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
   _______________________________________________
   Detomaso? Email List is not managed by
   POCA
   Posted emails must not exceed 1.5?
   Megabytes
   DeTomaso mailing? list
   [17]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   [18][74]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
   To? manage your subscription (change email
   address, unsubscribe, etc.)
   use
   the? links above.
   Members who post to this list grant
   license to the list to? forward any
   message posted here to all past, current,
   or future members of the?
   list. They
   also grant the list owner permission to
   maintain an archive or? approve
   the
   archiving of list? messages.
   ?? To use a cliche, we're working on it.
   ?? Most of what has been mentioned is in
   the pipeline.? However, there
   are
   ?? restrictions, particularly with the
   By-Laws as they currently stand.
   ?? There are no provisions for multiple
   dues levels,
   ?? particularly pertaining to how a member
   elects to have their club
   ?? publications delivered, etc.? That will
   take time as any changes or
   ?? amendments must be approved by the
   whole membership.
   ?? The consensus seems to be that the
   Profiles would continue as a
   print
   ?? publication for all except foreign
   members who elect to receive it
   ?? digitally.
   ?? As far as printing is concerned, it is
   that first copy that is so
   ?? expensive, it is the subsequent copies
   that bring down the per unit
   ?? cost.? So as fewer units are produced
   and shipped, the cost per unit
   ?? increases but not proportionately.
   ?? An apples to apples comparison was made
   between an online printer
   and
   ?? the current printer for both printing
   and mailing and the difference
   ?? was pennies.? That wasn't pennies per
   unit but for the whole run.
   ?? As far as I am concerned, it is the
   editors who should have the most
   ?? influence as to how and where their
   product is produced.? They are
   the
   ?? ones who must work with the printers
   and mailing houses on a regular
   ?? basis.
   ?? Bob Reid
   ?? In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24
   P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
   ?? [19]asajay at asajay.com
   writes:
   ???? The last I heard (and I may have
   heard wrong), the board was
   ???? interested
   ???? in doing a -real- accounting
   comparison of printing costs, so for
   ???? me,
   ???? it's a wait and see kind of thing.? I
   agree, if POCA was missing
   out
   ???? on
   ???? full-color and paying $8,000 more for
   B/W then something is amiss.
   ???? However, I also believe Mr. Shortt
   didn't account for all costs
   ???? properly.? I have more faith that the
   present board members will
   ???? properly investigate and sort it out
   for everyone.
   ???? I am on-board with electronic
   delivery, though I do admit it's
   nice
   ???? to
   ???? just sit back and read a paper copy
   too.? It's also easier to
   ???? hand-off
   ???? to Sam so he can read it later.? How
   do you really fix that?
   ???? I would think (and I don't know),
   that the ClubExpress membership
   ???? database might be able to include a
   "preference" as part of the
   ???? member's
   ???? profile or details.? Just as I can
   set an address and phone
   number,
   ???? if I
   ???? could check a box for Electronic
   delivery or paper copies, or
   both,
   ???? and
   ???? select whatever I wanted for each
   item (Profiles versus
   Newsletter),
   ???? that might be ideal.
   ???? However, I'm also familiar with
   quantity discounting.? It very
   well
   ???? could be that it costs the same
   amount to print 500 as it does to
   ???? print
   ???? 50, or 10 (but I doubt it).? I
   imagine those are considerations
   the
   ???? board will look at as well.
   ???? Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie
   has claimed, I have heard (from
   ???? more
   ???? than one person), that Jack and Mike
   did not resign "because POCA
   ???? changed printers;" it was over
   "control" of newsletter content
   that
   ???? in
   ???? essence fell outside the bounds of
   the by-laws.? For a guy that
   ???? appeared
   ???? to try very hard to get everyone else
   to follow the by-laws (and
   ???? it's
   ???? unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt
   certainly didn't feel they
   ???? applied
   ???? to him.
   ???? For the record, as I understand it,
   POCA has changed printers
   ???? -twice-
   ???? since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were
   related to the DeRykes) got
   out
   ???? of
   ???? the business.? So the "family tie-in"
   previously eluded to, was
   not
   ???? a
   ???? factor in the resignations.
   ???? Just my $1.50? (two cents adjusted
   for inflation)
   ???? Asa? Jay
   ???? Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt,
   USAFR, Retired
   ???? &? Shelley Marie
   ???? Spokane, WA
   ???? ******************************
   ???? [20][75]http://w7tsc.org
   ???? [21][76]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
   ????
   _______________________________________________
   ???? Detomaso Email List is not managed by
   POCA
   ???? Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
   Megabytes
   ???? DeTomaso mailing list
   ???? [22]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   ????
   [23][77]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
   ???? To manage your subscription (change
   email address, unsubscribe,
   ???? etc.) use the links above.
   ???? Members who post to this list grant
   license to the list to forward
   ???? any message posted here to all past,
   current, or future members of
   ???? the list. They also grant the list
   owner permission to maintain an
   ???? archive or approve the archiving of
   list messages.
   _______________________________________________
   Detomaso Email List is not managed by
   POCA
   Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
   Megabytes
   DeTomaso mailing list
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   [25][78]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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   use the links above.
   Members who post to this list grant
   license to the list to forward any
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   or future members of the
   list. They also grant the list owner
   permission to maintain an archive
   or approve the archiving of list
   messages.
   -------------- next part --------------
   I have a couple questions Bob:
   > Calling this situation "multiple dues
   levels" seems to be making the
   issue too complex. There are some members
   that are opting to not have
   printed magazines mailed which should make
   those members eligible for a
   discount because of the savings.
   > What is your estimate of the length
   of time that it would take the
   board to arrange for a vote of the
   membership to change the bylaws to
   allow for this discount?
   > Who specifically made that
   apples-to-apples comparison you refer to?
   > I agree that the editors should have
   the most influence on the
   process. However, our editors of both
   publications seem to have a hard
   time reporting to the members about ANY
   issues pertaining to the
   publication's themselves. Might that
   change in the near future or will
   radio silence be the norm here?
   Marshall Smith
   Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone
   -------- Original message --------
   From: P6746--- via DeTomaso
   <[26]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
   Date: 8/14/16 3:10 PM (GMT-08:00)
   To: [27]asajay at asajay.com,
   [28]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost,
   paper vs. electronic
   To use a cliche, we're working on it.
   Most of what has been mentioned is in the
   pipeline. However, there
   are
   restrictions, particularly with the
   By-Laws as they currently stand.
   There
   are no provisions for multiple dues
   levels, particularly pertaining to
   how a
   member elects to have their club
   publications delivered, etc. That
   will
   take time as any changes or amendments
   must be approved by the whole
   membership.
   The consensus seems to be that the
   Profiles would continue as a print
   publication for all except foreign members
   who elect to receive it
   digitally.
   As far as printing is concerned, it is
   that first copy that is so
   expensive, it is the subsequent copies
   that bring down the per unit
   cost. So as
   fewer units are produced and shipped, the
   cost per unit increases but
   not
   proportionately.
   An apples to apples comparison was made
   between an online printer and
   the
   current printer for both printing and
   mailing and the difference was
   pennies. That wasn't pennies per unit but
   for the whole run.
   As far as I am concerned, it is the
   editors who should have the most
   influence as to how and where their
   product is produced. They are the
   ones who
   must work with the printers and mailing
   houses on a regular basis.
   Bob Reid
   In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M.
   Eastern Daylight Time,
   [29]asajay at asajay.com
   writes:
   The last I heard (and I may have heard
   wrong), the board was
   interested
   in doing a -real- accounting comparison of
   printing costs, so for me,
   it's a wait and see kind of thing. I
   agree, if POCA was missing out
   on
   full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W
   then something is amiss.
   However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't
   account for all costs
   properly. I have more faith that the
   present board members will
   properly investigate and sort it out for
   everyone.
   I am on-board with electronic delivery,
   though I do admit it's nice to
   just sit back and read a paper copy too.
   It's also easier to hand-off
   to Sam so he can read it later. How do you
   really fix that?
   I would think (and I don't know), that the
   ClubExpress membership
   database might be able to include a
   "preference" as part of the
   member's
   profile or details. Just as I can set an
   address and phone number, if
   I
   could check a box for Electronic delivery
   or paper copies, or both,
   and
   select whatever I wanted for each item
   (Profiles versus Newsletter),
   that might be ideal.
   However, I'm also familiar with quantity
   discounting. It very well
   could be that it costs the same amount to
   print 500 as it does to
   print
   50, or 10 (but I doubt it). I imagine
   those are considerations the
   board will look at as well.
   Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has
   claimed, I have heard (from
   more
   than one person), that Jack and Mike did
   not resign "because POCA
   changed printers;" it was over "control"
   of newsletter content that in
   essence fell outside the bounds of the
   by-laws. For a guy that
   appeared
   to try very hard to get everyone else to
   follow the by-laws (and it's
   unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt
   certainly didn't feel they
   applied
   to him.
   For the record, as I understand it, POCA
   has changed printers -twice-
   since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were
   related to the DeRykes) got out of
   the business. So the "family tie-in"
   previously eluded to, was not a
   factor in the resignations.
   Just my $1.50 (two cents adjusted for
   inflation)
   Asa Jay
   Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR,
   Retired
   & Shelley Marie
   Spokane, WA
   ******************************
   [30][79]http://w7tsc.org
   [31][80]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
   _______________________________________________
   Detomaso Email List is not managed by
   POCA
   Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
   Megabytes
   DeTomaso mailing list
   [32]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   [33][81]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
   To manage your subscription (change email
   address, unsubscribe, etc.)
   use
   the links above.
   Members who post to this list grant
   license to the list to forward any
   message posted here to all past, current,
   or future members of the
   list. They
   also grant the list owner permission to
   maintain an archive or approve
   the
   archiving of list messages.
   To use a cliche, we're working on it.
   Most of what has been mentioned is in the
   pipeline. However, there
   are
   restrictions, particularly with the
   By-Laws as they currently stand.
   There are no provisions for multiple dues
   levels,
   particularly pertaining to how a member
   elects to have their club
   publications delivered, etc. That will
   take time as any changes or
   amendments must be approved by the whole
   membership.
   The consensus seems to be that the
   Profiles would continue as a
   print
   publication for all except foreign members
   who elect to receive it
   digitally.
   As far as printing is concerned, it is
   that first copy that is so
   expensive, it is the subsequent copies
   that bring down the per unit
   cost. So as fewer units are produced and
   shipped, the cost per unit
   increases but not proportionately.
   An apples to apples comparison was made
   between an online printer
   and
   the current printer for both printing and
   mailing and the difference
   was pennies. That wasn't pennies per unit
   but for the whole run.
   As far as I am concerned, it is the
   editors who should have the most
   influence as to how and where their
   product is produced. They are
   the
   ones who must work with the printers and
   mailing houses on a regular
   basis.
   Bob Reid
   In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M.
   Eastern Daylight Time,
   [34]asajay at asajay.com
   writes:
   The last I heard (and I may have heard
   wrong), the board was
   interested
   in doing a -real- accounting comparison of
   printing costs, so for
   me,
   it's a wait and see kind of thing. I
   agree, if POCA was missing
   out
   on
   full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W
   then something is amiss.
   However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't
   account for all costs
   properly. I have more faith that the
   present board members will
   properly investigate and sort it out for
   everyone.
   I am on-board with electronic delivery,
   though I do admit it's
   nice
   to
   just sit back and read a paper copy too.
   It's also easier to
   hand-off
   to Sam so he can read it later. How do you
   really fix that?
   I would think (and I don't know), that the
   ClubExpress membership
   database might be able to include a
   "preference" as part of the
   member's
   profile or details. Just as I can set an
   address and phone
   number,
   if I
   could check a box for Electronic delivery
   or paper copies, or
   both,
   and
   select whatever I wanted for each item
   (Profiles versus
   Newsletter),
   that might be ideal.
   However, I'm also familiar with quantity
   discounting. It very
   well
   could be that it costs the same amount to
   print 500 as it does to
   print
   50, or 10 (but I doubt it). I imagine
   those are considerations
   the
   board will look at as well.
   Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has
   claimed, I have heard (from
   more
   than one person), that Jack and Mike did
   not resign "because POCA
   changed printers;" it was over "control"
   of newsletter content
   that
   in
   essence fell outside the bounds of the
   by-laws. For a guy that
   appeared
   to try very hard to get everyone else to
   follow the by-laws (and
   it's
   unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt
   certainly didn't feel they
   applied
   to him.
   For the record, as I understand it, POCA
   has changed printers
   -twice-
   since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were
   related to the DeRykes) got
   out
   of
   the business. So the "family tie-in"
   previously eluded to, was
   not
   a
   factor in the resignations.
   Just my $1.50 (two cents adjusted for
   inflation)
   Asa Jay
   Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR,
   Retired
   & Shelley Marie
   Spokane, WA
   ******************************
   [35][82]http://w7tsc.org
   [36][83]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
   _______________________________________________
   Detomaso Email List is not managed by
   POCA
   Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
   Megabytes
   DeTomaso mailing list
   [37]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   [38][84]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
   To manage your subscription (change email
   address, unsubscribe,
   etc.) use the links above.
   Members who post to this list grant
   license to the list to forward
   any message posted here to all past,
   current, or future members of
   the list. They also grant the list owner
   permission to maintain an
   archive or approve the archiving of list
   messages.
   _______________________________________________
   Detomaso Email List is not managed by
   POCA
   Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
   Megabytes
   DeTomaso mailing list
   [39]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   [40][85]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
   To manage your subscription (change email
   address, unsubscribe, etc.)
   use the links above.
   Members who post to this list grant
   license to the list to forward any
   message posted here to all past, current,
   or future members of the
   list. They also grant the list owner
   permission to maintain an archive
   or approve the archiving of list
   messages.
   ------------------------------
   Message: 2
   Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 20:56:45 -0700
   From: Michael Cox <[41]coxmichaelt at gmail.com>
   To: [42]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] De Tomaso Pantera
   GTS on eBay! again $250K!!
   Message-ID:
   <CAMPkPf3HQcqg5vLxgjpJP=7z=UBbrVs=[43]ynAnbzepC1U9QH+A_Q at mail.gmail
   .com
   >
   Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
   > From: Ed Mendez <[44]edducati at mac.com>
   > Subject: [DeTomaso] De Tomaso Pantera
   GTS on eBay! again $250K!!
   >
   > Hi! I found this on eBay and thought
   you might like it! Check it out
   now! De Tomaso:
   > Other Pantera GTS [45][86]http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
   These guys found that ad too. :^)
   [46][87]http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-panter
   a-ha
   s-only-785-miles-to-its-name/109069/
   --michael cox
   -------------- next part --------------
   > From: Ed Mendez <[1][47]edducati at mac.com>
   > Subject: [DeTomaso] De Tomaso Pantera
   GTS on eBay! again $250K!!
   >A
   > Hi! I found this on eBay and thought
   you might like it! Check it out
   now!A De Tomaso:
   > Other Pantera GTSA [2][48][88]http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
   These guys found that ad too. A :^)
   [3][49][89]http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-pan
   tera
   -has
   -only-785-miles-to-its-name/109069/
   A A --michael cox
   References
   1. [50]mailto:edducati at mac.com
   2. [51][90]http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
   3.
   [52][91]http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-panter
   a-ha
   s-only-785-miles-to-its-name/109069/
   ------------------------------
   Message: 3
   Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 08:05:15 -0700
   From: "Stephen" <[53]steve at snclocks.com>
   To: "'marshallgsmith'" <[54]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>,
   <[55]P6746 at aol.com>,
   <[56]asajay at asajay.com>,
   <[57]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost,
   paper vs. electronic
   Message-ID:
   <004701d1f706$6ead4a50$4c07def0$@snclocks.com>
   Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
   Having been on Boards before - I'd suggest
   the current Board deserves
   some time to catch their breath and
   recover from the situation they
   have recently been through. It is amazing
   how much time something like
   this takes - and I suspect everyone on the
   Board would like to catch up
   on all the things they have let slide
   while coping with the removal of
   a president and all the animosity and
   e-mails the whole mess generated.
   It's so easy to ask questions - but takes
   a lot more time to figure out
   how to do everything asked below. For now,
   let's just let the Board
   recover and slowly get some of the loose
   ends taken care of.
   Stephen Nelson
   -----Original Message-----
   From: DeTomaso
   [[58]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com]
   On
   Behalf Of marshallgsmith
   Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2016 8:28 PM
   To: [59]P6746 at aol.com; [60]asajay at asajay.com;
   [61]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost,
   paper vs. electronic
   I have a couple questions Bob:
   > Calling this situation "multiple dues
   levels" seems to be making the
   issue too complex. There are some members
   that are opting to not have
   printed magazines mailed which should make
   those members eligible for a
   discount because of the savings.
   > What is your estimate of the length
   of time that it would take the
   board to arrange for a vote of the
   membership to change the bylaws to
   allow for this discount?
   > Who specifically made that
   apples-to-apples comparison you refer to?
   > I agree that the editors should have
   the most influence on the
   process. However, our editors of both
   publications seem to have a hard
   time reporting to the members about ANY
   issues pertaining to the
   publication's themselves. Might that
   change in the near future or will
   radio silence be the norm here?
   Marshall Smith
   Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone
   -------- Original message --------
   From: P6746--- via DeTomaso
   <[62]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
   Date: 8/14/16 3:10 PM (GMT-08:00)
   To: [63]asajay at asajay.com,
   [64]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost,
   paper vs. electronic
   To use a cliche, we're working on it.
   Most of what has been mentioned is in the
   pipeline. However, there are
   restrictions, particularly with the
   By-Laws as they currently stand.
   There are no provisions for multiple dues
   levels, particularly
   pertaining to how a member elects to have
   their club publications
   delivered, etc. That will take time as any
   changes or amendments must
   be approved by the whole membership.
   The consensus seems to be that the
   Profiles would continue as a print
   publication for all except foreign members
   who elect to receive it
   digitally.
   As far as printing is concerned, it is
   that first copy that is so
   expensive, it is the subsequent copies
   that bring down the per unit
   cost. So as fewer units are produced and
   shipped, the cost per unit
   increases but not proportionately.
   An apples to apples comparison was made
   between an online printer and
   the current printer for both printing and
   mailing and the difference
   was pennies. That wasn't pennies per unit
   but for the whole run.
   As far as I am concerned, it is the
   editors who should have the most
   influence as to how and where their
   product is produced. They are the
   ones who must work with the printers and
   mailing houses on a regular
   basis.
   Bob Reid
   In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M.
   Eastern Daylight Time,
   [65]asajay at asajay.com
   writes:
   The last I heard (and I may have heard
   wrong), the board was interested
   in doing a -real- accounting comparison of
   printing costs, so for me,
   it's a wait and see kind of thing. I
   agree, if POCA was missing out on
   full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W
   then something is amiss.
   However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't
   account for all costs
   properly. I have more faith that the
   present board members will
   properly investigate and sort it out for
   everyone.
   I am on-board with electronic delivery,
   though I do admit it's nice to
   just sit back and read a paper copy too.
   It's also easier to hand-off
   to Sam so he can read it later. How do you
   really fix that?
   I would think (and I don't know), that the
   ClubExpress membership
   database might be able to include a
   "preference" as part of the
   member's profile or details. Just as I can
   set an address and phone
   number, if I could check a box for
   Electronic delivery or paper copies,
   or both, and select whatever I wanted for
   each item (Profiles versus
   Newsletter), that might be ideal.
   However, I'm also familiar with quantity
   discounting. It very well
   could be that it costs the same amount to
   print 500 as it does to print
   50, or 10 (but I doubt it). I imagine
   those are considerations the
   board will look at as well.
   Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has
   claimed, I have heard (from more
   than one person), that Jack and Mike did
   not resign "because POCA
   changed printers;" it was over "control"
   of newsletter content that in
   essence fell outside the bounds of the
   by-laws. For a guy that appeared
   to try very hard to get everyone else to
   follow the by-laws (and it's
   unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt
   certainly didn't feel they
   applied to him.
   For the record, as I understand it, POCA
   has changed printers -twice-
   since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were
   related to the DeRykes) got out of
   the business. So the "family tie-in"
   previously eluded to, was not a
   factor in the resignations.
   Just my $1.50 (two cents adjusted for
   inflation) Asa Jay
   Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR,
   Retired & Shelley Marie Spokane,
   WA
   ******************************
   [66][92]http://w7tsc.org
   [67][93]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
   _______________________________________________
   Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
   Posted emails must not
   exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing
   list
   [68]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   [69][94]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
   To manage your subscription (change email
   address, unsubscribe, etc.)
   use the links above.
   Members who post to this list grant
   license to the list to forward any
   message posted here to all past, current,
   or future members of the
   list. They also grant the list owner
   permission to maintain an archive
   or approve the archiving of list
   messages.
   To use a cliche, we're working on it.
   Most of what has been mentioned is in the
   pipeline. However, there are
   restrictions, particularly with the
   By-Laws as they currently stand.
   There are no provisions for multiple dues
   levels,
   particularly pertaining to how a member
   elects to have their club
   publications delivered, etc. That will
   take time as any changes or
   amendments must be approved by the whole
   membership.
   The consensus seems to be that the
   Profiles would continue as a print
   publication for all except foreign members
   who elect to receive it
   digitally.
   As far as printing is concerned, it is
   that first copy that is so
   expensive, it is the subsequent copies
   that bring down the per unit
   cost. So as fewer units are produced and
   shipped, the cost per unit
   increases but not proportionately.
   An apples to apples comparison was made
   between an online printer and
   the current printer for both printing and
   mailing and the difference
   was pennies. That wasn't pennies per unit
   but for the whole run.
   As far as I am concerned, it is the
   editors who should have the most
   influence as to how and where their
   product is produced. They are the
   ones who must work with the printers and
   mailing houses on a regular
   basis.
   Bob Reid
   In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M.
   Eastern Daylight Time,
   [70]asajay at asajay.com
   writes:
   The last I heard (and I may have heard
   wrong), the board was
   interested
   in doing a -real- accounting comparison of
   printing costs, so for
   me,
   it's a wait and see kind of thing. I
   agree, if POCA was missing out
   on
   full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W
   then something is amiss.
   However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't
   account for all costs
   properly. I have more faith that the
   present board members will
   properly investigate and sort it out for
   everyone.
   I am on-board with electronic delivery,
   though I do admit it's nice
   to
   just sit back and read a paper copy too.
   It's also easier to
   hand-off
   to Sam so he can read it later. How do you
   really fix that?
   I would think (and I don't know), that the
   ClubExpress membership
   database might be able to include a
   "preference" as part of the
   member's
   profile or details. Just as I can set an
   address and phone number,
   if I
   could check a box for Electronic delivery
   or paper copies, or both,
   and
   select whatever I wanted for each item
   (Profiles versus Newsletter),
   that might be ideal.
   However, I'm also familiar with quantity
   discounting. It very well
   could be that it costs the same amount to
   print 500 as it does to
   print
   50, or 10 (but I doubt it). I imagine
   those are considerations the
   board will look at as well.
   Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has
   claimed, I have heard (from
   more
   than one person), that Jack and Mike did
   not resign "because POCA
   changed printers;" it was over "control"
   of newsletter content that
   in
   essence fell outside the bounds of the
   by-laws. For a guy that
   appeared
   to try very hard to get everyone else to
   follow the by-laws (and
   it's
   unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt
   certainly didn't feel they
   _______________________________________________
   Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
   Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
   DeTomaso mailing list
   [95]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   [96]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
   To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
   use the links above.
   Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
   message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
   list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
   or approve the archiving of list messages.

References

   1. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   2. mailto:laurieferrari at aol.com
   3. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   4. mailto:laurieferrari at aol.com
   5. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   6. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
   7. http://w7tsc.org/
   8. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
   9. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  10. http://w7tsc.org/
  11. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
  12. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  13. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  14. http://w7tsc.org/
  15. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
  16. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  17. http://w7tsc.org/
  18. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
  19. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  20. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  21. http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
  22. http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-pantera-ha
  23. http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
  24. http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-pantera
  25. http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
  26. http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-pantera-ha
  27. http://w7tsc.org/
  28. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
  29. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  30. http://w7tsc.org/
  31. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
  32. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  33. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  34. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  35. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  36. http://w7tsc.org/
  37. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
  38. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  39. http://w7tsc.org/
  40. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
  41. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  42. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  43. http://w7tsc.org/
  44. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
  45. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  46. http://w7tsc.org/
  47. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
  48. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  49. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  50. http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
  51. http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-pantera-has-on
  52. http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
  53. http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-pantera-has
  54. http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
  55. http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-pantera-has-on
  56. http://w7tsc.org/
  57. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
  58. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  59. http://w7tsc.org/
  60. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
  61. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  62. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  63. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  64. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  65. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  66. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  67. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  68. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  69. mailto:laurieferrari at aol.com
  70. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  71. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  72. http://w7tsc.org/
  73. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
  74. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  75. http://w7tsc.org/
  76. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
  77. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  78. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  79. http://w7tsc.org/
  80. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
  81. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  82. http://w7tsc.org/
  83. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
  84. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  85. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  86. http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
  87. http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-panter
  88. http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
  89. http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-pan
  90. http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
  91. http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-panter
  92. http://w7tsc.org/
  93. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
  94. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  95. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  96. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso


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