[DeTomaso] resignations
Effie Richards
erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com
Mon Aug 15 23:37:33 EDT 2016
Thanks Bill! You reminded me what my husband told me on our first date 23 years ago! Your exact statement!
I concur!
Sent from Effie's iPad
> On Aug 15, 2016, at 7:00 PM, bill <bill at incendium.com> wrote:
>
> "If you tell the truth, you never have to remember what you said",,,,
>
> And it does not take an hour, a day , or a week to clarify.......
>
> Cheers
>
> Bill Moore
>
> Calgary
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com>
> Date: 2016-08-15 7:29 PM (GMT-07:00)
> To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com, laurieferrari at aol.com, marshall
> smith <marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations
>
> I have digested all the emails on this topic and to be honest it still
> doesn't sit well in my gut.
> Presumably the BOD voted in favor of changing printers based upon the
> quotes presented. Did they not have all the facts and if not why did
> they not question further? Did Jack have all the facts when he resigned
> or were his and Mike Haney's resignations simply an outright stand
> against changing printer?
> Why did Michael push to change printer if he knew there was only
> pennies between it?
> Julian
> ________________________________
> From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of
> marshall smith <marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
> Sent: Monday, August 15, 2016 10:11 AM
> To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com; laurieferrari at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations
> I find it funny that three months after the Fun Rally we are now
> hearing that Shortt's bid for printing did not include shipping. Shortt
> is a lot of things but a mistake like this...?
> I was listening in on this meeting also and I know what I heard.
> Apparently, the board convinced 'some' members of this so-called
> discrepancy month's ago. Why wasn't this information, if it exists,
> relayed to ALL of us in a timely manner?
> Marshall
> --------------------------------------------
> On Mon, 8/15/16, Laurie Ferrari via DeTomaso
> <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations
> To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Date: Monday, August 15, 2016, 9:57 AM
> Dear AJ,
> I have always respected you and your
> opinions but in this case you are
> incorrect as far as the resignation of
> Jack DeRyke. I was on the Board
> of Directors' conference call where he was
> asked to stay and he
> adamantly refused to if the printer
> changed. Jack's resignation was
> specifically because of the change in
> printer! You can go research
> that phone conference call, or the minutes
> of the meeting, as the facts
> are saved. As far as Mike Haney's
> resignation, that was done by his
> Mrs. for their reasons which most likely
> were aligned with their
> parents.
> Laurie
> In a message dated 8/13/2016
> 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,?
> [1]asajay at asajay.com
> writes:
> The last? I heard (and I may have
> heard wrong), the board was
> interested
> in doing a? -real- accounting
> comparison of printing costs, so for
> me,
> it's a wait and? see kind of
> thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing
> out on
> full-color? and paying $8,000 more
> for B/W then something is amiss.?
> However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt
> didn't account for all costs
> properly.? I? have more faith that
> the present board members will
> properly investigate? and sort it
> out for everyone.
> I am on-board with electronic
> delivery,? though I do admit it's nice
> to
> just sit back and read a paper
> copy? too.? It's also easier to
> hand-off
> to Sam so he can read it? later.?
> How do you really fix that?
> I would think (and I don't? know),
> that the ClubExpress membership
> database might be able to include
> a? "preference" as part of the
> member's
> profile or details.? Just as I? can
> set an address and phone number,
> if I
> could check a box for Electronic?
> delivery or paper copies, or both,
> and
> select whatever I wanted for each?
> item (Profiles versus
> Newsletter),
> that might be ideal.
> However,? I'm also familiar with
> quantity discounting.? It very well
> could be? that it costs the same
> amount to print 500 as it does to
> print
> 50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I
> imagine those are considerations the
> board will? look at as well.
> Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie
> has claimed, I have? heard (from
> more
> than one person), that Jack and
> Mike did not resign? "because POCA
> changed printers;" it was over
> "control" of newsletter? content that
> in
> essence fell outside the bounds of
> the by-laws.? For? a guy that
> appeared
> to try very hard to get everyone
> else to follow the? by-laws (and
> it's
> unwritten code of ethics), Mr.
> Shortt certainly didn't? feel they
> applied
> to him.
> For the record, as I understand it,
> POCA? has changed printers
> -twice-
> since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were
> related? to the DeRykes) got out
> of
> the business.? So the "family
> tie-in"? previously eluded to, was not
> a
> factor in the resignations.
> Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted
> for inflation)
> Asa? Jay
> Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt,
> USAFR, Retired
> &? Shelley? Mar
> -----Original Message-----
> From: detomaso-request <detomaso-request at server.detomasolist.com>
> To: detomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2016 9:00 am
> Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 146, Issue
> 20
> Send DeTomaso mailing list submissions to
> [2]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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> Daily Detomaso List Digest
> Today's Topics:
> 1. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs.
> electronic (marshallgsmith)
> 2. Re: De Tomaso Pantera GTS on eBay!
> again $250K!! (Michael Cox)
> 3. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs.
> electronic (Stephen)
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 20:27:43 -0700
> From: marshallgsmith <[6]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
> To: [7]P6746 at aol.com, [8]asajay at asajay.com,
> [9]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost,
> paper vs. electronic
> Message-ID:
> <[10]sdxpj9k7caacwyvlamgw7uly.1471231663405 at email.android.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> I have a couple questions Bob:
>> Calling this situation "multiple dues
> levels" seems to be making the
> issue too complex. There are some members
> that are opting to not have
> printed magazines mailed which should make
> those members eligible for a
> discount because of the savings.
>> What is your estimate of the length
> of time that it would take the
> board to arrange for a vote of the
> membership to change the bylaws to
> allow for this discount?
>> Who specifically made that
> apples-to-apples comparison you refer to?
>> I agree that the editors should have
> the most influence ?on the
> process. ?However, our editors of both
> publications seem to have a hard
> time reporting to the members about ANY
> issues pertaining to the
> publication's themselves. Might that
> change in the near future or will
> radio silence be the norm here?
> Marshall Smith
> Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone
> -------- Original message --------
> From: P6746--- via DeTomaso <[11]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Date: 8/14/16 3:10 PM (GMT-08:00)
> To: [12]asajay at asajay.com,
> [13]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost,
> paper vs. electronic
> To use a cliche, we're working on it.?
> Most of what has been mentioned is in the
> pipeline.?? However, there
> are
> restrictions, particularly with the
> By-Laws as they currently? stand.?
> There
> are no provisions for multiple dues
> levels,? particularly pertaining to
> how a
> member elects to have their club?
> publications delivered, etc.? That
> will
> take time as any changes or? amendments
> must be approved by the whole
> membership.
> The consensus seems to be that the
> Profiles would? continue as a print
> publication for all except foreign members
> who elect to? receive it
> digitally.?
> As far as printing is concerned, it is
> that first copy that is? so
> expensive, it is the subsequent copies
> that bring down the per unit?
> cost.? So as
> fewer units are produced and shipped, the
> cost per unit? increases but
> not
> proportionately.??
> An apples to apples comparison was made
> between an online? printer and
> the
> current printer for both printing and
> mailing and the difference? was
> pennies.? That wasn't pennies per unit but
> for the whole run.?
> As far as I am concerned, it is the
> editors who should have? the most
> influence as to how and where their
> product is produced.? They are? the
> ones who
> must work with the printers and mailing
> houses on a regular? basis.
> Bob Reid?
> In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M.
> Eastern Daylight Time,?
> [14]asajay at asajay.com
> writes:
> The last? I heard (and I may have heard
> wrong), the board was
> interested
> in doing a? -real- accounting comparison
> of printing costs, so for me,
> it's a wait and? see kind of thing.? I
> agree, if POCA was missing out
> on
> full-color? and paying $8,000 more for B/W
> then something is amiss.?
> However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt didn't
> account for all costs
> properly.? I? have more faith that the
> present board members will
> properly investigate? and sort it out for
> everyone.
> I am on-board with electronic delivery,?
> though I do admit it's nice to
> just sit back and read a paper copy? too.?
> It's also easier to hand-off
> to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do
> you really fix that?
> I would think (and I don't? know), that
> the ClubExpress membership
> database might be able to include a?
> "preference" as part of the
> member's
> profile or details.? Just as I? can set an
> address and phone number, if
> I
> could check a box for Electronic? delivery
> or paper copies, or both,
> and
> select whatever I wanted for each? item
> (Profiles versus Newsletter),
> that might be ideal.
> However,? I'm also familiar with quantity
> discounting.? It very well
> could be? that it costs the same amount to
> print 500 as it does to
> print
> 50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I imagine
> those are considerations the
> board will? look at as well.
> Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has
> claimed, I have? heard (from
> more
> than one person), that Jack and Mike did
> not resign? "because POCA
> changed printers;" it was over "control"
> of newsletter? content that in
> essence fell outside the bounds of the
> by-laws.? For? a guy that
> appeared
> to try very hard to get everyone else to
> follow the? by-laws (and it's
> unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt
> certainly didn't? feel they
> applied
> to him.
> For the record, as I understand it, POCA?
> has changed printers -twice-
> since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were
> related? to the DeRykes) got out of
> the business.? So the "family tie-in"?
> previously eluded to, was not a
> factor in the resignations.
> Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted for
> inflation)
> Asa? Jay
> Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR,
> Retired
> &? Shelley? Marie
> Spokane,? WA
> ******************************
> [15]http://w7tsc.org
> [16]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso? Email List is not managed by
> POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5?
> Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing? list
> [17]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> [18]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> To? manage your subscription (change email
> address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> use
> the? links above.
> Members who post to this list grant
> license to the list to? forward any
> message posted here to all past, current,
> or future members of the?
> list. They
> also grant the list owner permission to
> maintain an archive or? approve
> the
> archiving of list? messages.
> ?? To use a cliche, we're working on it.
> ?? Most of what has been mentioned is in
> the pipeline.? However, there
> are
> ?? restrictions, particularly with the
> By-Laws as they currently stand.
> ?? There are no provisions for multiple
> dues levels,
> ?? particularly pertaining to how a member
> elects to have their club
> ?? publications delivered, etc.? That will
> take time as any changes or
> ?? amendments must be approved by the
> whole membership.
> ?? The consensus seems to be that the
> Profiles would continue as a
> print
> ?? publication for all except foreign
> members who elect to receive it
> ?? digitally.
> ?? As far as printing is concerned, it is
> that first copy that is so
> ?? expensive, it is the subsequent copies
> that bring down the per unit
> ?? cost.? So as fewer units are produced
> and shipped, the cost per unit
> ?? increases but not proportionately.
> ?? An apples to apples comparison was made
> between an online printer
> and
> ?? the current printer for both printing
> and mailing and the difference
> ?? was pennies.? That wasn't pennies per
> unit but for the whole run.
> ?? As far as I am concerned, it is the
> editors who should have the most
> ?? influence as to how and where their
> product is produced.? They are
> the
> ?? ones who must work with the printers
> and mailing houses on a regular
> ?? basis.
> ?? Bob Reid
> ?? In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24
> P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> ?? [19]asajay at asajay.com
> writes:
> ???? The last I heard (and I may have
> heard wrong), the board was
> ???? interested
> ???? in doing a -real- accounting
> comparison of printing costs, so for
> ???? me,
> ???? it's a wait and see kind of thing.? I
> agree, if POCA was missing
> out
> ???? on
> ???? full-color and paying $8,000 more for
> B/W then something is amiss.
> ???? However, I also believe Mr. Shortt
> didn't account for all costs
> ???? properly.? I have more faith that the
> present board members will
> ???? properly investigate and sort it out
> for everyone.
> ???? I am on-board with electronic
> delivery, though I do admit it's
> nice
> ???? to
> ???? just sit back and read a paper copy
> too.? It's also easier to
> ???? hand-off
> ???? to Sam so he can read it later.? How
> do you really fix that?
> ???? I would think (and I don't know),
> that the ClubExpress membership
> ???? database might be able to include a
> "preference" as part of the
> ???? member's
> ???? profile or details.? Just as I can
> set an address and phone
> number,
> ???? if I
> ???? could check a box for Electronic
> delivery or paper copies, or
> both,
> ???? and
> ???? select whatever I wanted for each
> item (Profiles versus
> Newsletter),
> ???? that might be ideal.
> ???? However, I'm also familiar with
> quantity discounting.? It very
> well
> ???? could be that it costs the same
> amount to print 500 as it does to
> ???? print
> ???? 50, or 10 (but I doubt it).? I
> imagine those are considerations
> the
> ???? board will look at as well.
> ???? Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie
> has claimed, I have heard (from
> ???? more
> ???? than one person), that Jack and Mike
> did not resign "because POCA
> ???? changed printers;" it was over
> "control" of newsletter content
> that
> ???? in
> ???? essence fell outside the bounds of
> the by-laws.? For a guy that
> ???? appeared
> ???? to try very hard to get everyone else
> to follow the by-laws (and
> ???? it's
> ???? unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt
> certainly didn't feel they
> ???? applied
> ???? to him.
> ???? For the record, as I understand it,
> POCA has changed printers
> ???? -twice-
> ???? since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were
> related to the DeRykes) got
> out
> ???? of
> ???? the business.? So the "family tie-in"
> previously eluded to, was
> not
> ???? a
> ???? factor in the resignations.
> ???? Just my $1.50? (two cents adjusted
> for inflation)
> ???? Asa? Jay
> ???? Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt,
> USAFR, Retired
> ???? &? Shelley Marie
> ???? Spokane, WA
> ???? ******************************
> ???? [20]http://w7tsc.org
> ???? [21]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
> ????
> _______________________________________________
> ???? Detomaso Email List is not managed by
> POCA
> ???? Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
> Megabytes
> ???? DeTomaso mailing list
> ???? [22]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> ???? [23]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> ???? To manage your subscription (change
> email address, unsubscribe,
> ???? etc.) use the links above.
> ???? Members who post to this list grant
> license to the list to forward
> ???? any message posted here to all past,
> current, or future members of
> ???? the list. They also grant the list
> owner permission to maintain an
> ???? archive or approve the archiving of
> list messages.
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by
> POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
> Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [24]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> [25]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> To manage your subscription (change email
> address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> use the links above.
> Members who post to this list grant
> license to the list to forward any
> message posted here to all past, current,
> or future members of the
> list. They also grant the list owner
> permission to maintain an archive
> or approve the archiving of list
> messages.
> -------------- next part --------------
> I have a couple questions Bob:
>> Calling this situation "multiple dues
> levels" seems to be making the
> issue too complex. There are some members
> that are opting to not have
> printed magazines mailed which should make
> those members eligible for a
> discount because of the savings.
>> What is your estimate of the length
> of time that it would take the
> board to arrange for a vote of the
> membership to change the bylaws to
> allow for this discount?
>> Who specifically made that
> apples-to-apples comparison you refer to?
>> I agree that the editors should have
> the most influence on the
> process. However, our editors of both
> publications seem to have a hard
> time reporting to the members about ANY
> issues pertaining to the
> publication's themselves. Might that
> change in the near future or will
> radio silence be the norm here?
> Marshall Smith
> Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone
> -------- Original message --------
> From: P6746--- via DeTomaso <[26]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Date: 8/14/16 3:10 PM (GMT-08:00)
> To: [27]asajay at asajay.com,
> [28]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost,
> paper vs. electronic
> To use a cliche, we're working on it.
> Most of what has been mentioned is in the
> pipeline. However, there
> are
> restrictions, particularly with the
> By-Laws as they currently stand.
> There
> are no provisions for multiple dues
> levels, particularly pertaining to
> how a
> member elects to have their club
> publications delivered, etc. That
> will
> take time as any changes or amendments
> must be approved by the whole
> membership.
> The consensus seems to be that the
> Profiles would continue as a print
> publication for all except foreign members
> who elect to receive it
> digitally.
> As far as printing is concerned, it is
> that first copy that is so
> expensive, it is the subsequent copies
> that bring down the per unit
> cost. So as
> fewer units are produced and shipped, the
> cost per unit increases but
> not
> proportionately.
> An apples to apples comparison was made
> between an online printer and
> the
> current printer for both printing and
> mailing and the difference was
> pennies. That wasn't pennies per unit but
> for the whole run.
> As far as I am concerned, it is the
> editors who should have the most
> influence as to how and where their
> product is produced. They are the
> ones who
> must work with the printers and mailing
> houses on a regular basis.
> Bob Reid
> In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M.
> Eastern Daylight Time,
> [29]asajay at asajay.com
> writes:
> The last I heard (and I may have heard
> wrong), the board was
> interested
> in doing a -real- accounting comparison of
> printing costs, so for me,
> it's a wait and see kind of thing. I
> agree, if POCA was missing out
> on
> full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W
> then something is amiss.
> However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't
> account for all costs
> properly. I have more faith that the
> present board members will
> properly investigate and sort it out for
> everyone.
> I am on-board with electronic delivery,
> though I do admit it's nice to
> just sit back and read a paper copy too.
> It's also easier to hand-off
> to Sam so he can read it later. How do you
> really fix that?
> I would think (and I don't know), that the
> ClubExpress membership
> database might be able to include a
> "preference" as part of the
> member's
> profile or details. Just as I can set an
> address and phone number, if
> I
> could check a box for Electronic delivery
> or paper copies, or both,
> and
> select whatever I wanted for each item
> (Profiles versus Newsletter),
> that might be ideal.
> However, I'm also familiar with quantity
> discounting. It very well
> could be that it costs the same amount to
> print 500 as it does to
> print
> 50, or 10 (but I doubt it). I imagine
> those are considerations the
> board will look at as well.
> Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has
> claimed, I have heard (from
> more
> than one person), that Jack and Mike did
> not resign "because POCA
> changed printers;" it was over "control"
> of newsletter content that in
> essence fell outside the bounds of the
> by-laws. For a guy that
> appeared
> to try very hard to get everyone else to
> follow the by-laws (and it's
> unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt
> certainly didn't feel they
> applied
> to him.
> For the record, as I understand it, POCA
> has changed printers -twice-
> since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were
> related to the DeRykes) got out of
> the business. So the "family tie-in"
> previously eluded to, was not a
> factor in the resignations.
> Just my $1.50 (two cents adjusted for
> inflation)
> Asa Jay
> Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR,
> Retired
> & Shelley Marie
> Spokane, WA
> ******************************
> [30]http://w7tsc.org
> [31]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by
> POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
> Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [32]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> [33]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> To manage your subscription (change email
> address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> use
> the links above.
> Members who post to this list grant
> license to the list to forward any
> message posted here to all past, current,
> or future members of the
> list. They
> also grant the list owner permission to
> maintain an archive or approve
> the
> archiving of list messages.
> To use a cliche, we're working on it.
> Most of what has been mentioned is in the
> pipeline. However, there
> are
> restrictions, particularly with the
> By-Laws as they currently stand.
> There are no provisions for multiple dues
> levels,
> particularly pertaining to how a member
> elects to have their club
> publications delivered, etc. That will
> take time as any changes or
> amendments must be approved by the whole
> membership.
> The consensus seems to be that the
> Profiles would continue as a
> print
> publication for all except foreign members
> who elect to receive it
> digitally.
> As far as printing is concerned, it is
> that first copy that is so
> expensive, it is the subsequent copies
> that bring down the per unit
> cost. So as fewer units are produced and
> shipped, the cost per unit
> increases but not proportionately.
> An apples to apples comparison was made
> between an online printer
> and
> the current printer for both printing and
> mailing and the difference
> was pennies. That wasn't pennies per unit
> but for the whole run.
> As far as I am concerned, it is the
> editors who should have the most
> influence as to how and where their
> product is produced. They are
> the
> ones who must work with the printers and
> mailing houses on a regular
> basis.
> Bob Reid
> In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M.
> Eastern Daylight Time,
> [34]asajay at asajay.com
> writes:
> The last I heard (and I may have heard
> wrong), the board was
> interested
> in doing a -real- accounting comparison of
> printing costs, so for
> me,
> it's a wait and see kind of thing. I
> agree, if POCA was missing
> out
> on
> full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W
> then something is amiss.
> However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't
> account for all costs
> properly. I have more faith that the
> present board members will
> properly investigate and sort it out for
> everyone.
> I am on-board with electronic delivery,
> though I do admit it's
> nice
> to
> just sit back and read a paper copy too.
> It's also easier to
> hand-off
> to Sam so he can read it later. How do you
> really fix that?
> I would think (and I don't know), that the
> ClubExpress membership
> database might be able to include a
> "preference" as part of the
> member's
> profile or details. Just as I can set an
> address and phone
> number,
> if I
> could check a box for Electronic delivery
> or paper copies, or
> both,
> and
> select whatever I wanted for each item
> (Profiles versus
> Newsletter),
> that might be ideal.
> However, I'm also familiar with quantity
> discounting. It very
> well
> could be that it costs the same amount to
> print 500 as it does to
> print
> 50, or 10 (but I doubt it). I imagine
> those are considerations
> the
> board will look at as well.
> Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has
> claimed, I have heard (from
> more
> than one person), that Jack and Mike did
> not resign "because POCA
> changed printers;" it was over "control"
> of newsletter content
> that
> in
> essence fell outside the bounds of the
> by-laws. For a guy that
> appeared
> to try very hard to get everyone else to
> follow the by-laws (and
> it's
> unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt
> certainly didn't feel they
> applied
> to him.
> For the record, as I understand it, POCA
> has changed printers
> -twice-
> since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were
> related to the DeRykes) got
> out
> of
> the business. So the "family tie-in"
> previously eluded to, was
> not
> a
> factor in the resignations.
> Just my $1.50 (two cents adjusted for
> inflation)
> Asa Jay
> Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR,
> Retired
> & Shelley Marie
> Spokane, WA
> ******************************
> [35]http://w7tsc.org
> [36]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by
> POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
> Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [37]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> [38]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> To manage your subscription (change email
> address, unsubscribe,
> etc.) use the links above.
> Members who post to this list grant
> license to the list to forward
> any message posted here to all past,
> current, or future members of
> the list. They also grant the list owner
> permission to maintain an
> archive or approve the archiving of list
> messages.
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by
> POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
> Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [39]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> [40]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> To manage your subscription (change email
> address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> use the links above.
> Members who post to this list grant
> license to the list to forward any
> message posted here to all past, current,
> or future members of the
> list. They also grant the list owner
> permission to maintain an archive
> or approve the archiving of list
> messages.
> ------------------------------
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 20:56:45 -0700
> From: Michael Cox <[41]coxmichaelt at gmail.com>
> To: [42]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] De Tomaso Pantera
> GTS on eBay! again $250K!!
> Message-ID:
>
> <CAMPkPf3HQcqg5vLxgjpJP=7z=UBbrVs=[43]ynAnbzepC1U9QH+A_Q at mail.gmail.com
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> From: Ed Mendez <[44]edducati at mac.com>
>> Subject: [DeTomaso] De Tomaso Pantera
> GTS on eBay! again $250K!!
>>
>> Hi! I found this on eBay and thought
> you might like it! Check it out
> now! De Tomaso:
>> Other Pantera GTS [45]http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
> These guys found that ad too. :^)
>
> [46]http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-pantera-ha
> s-only-785-miles-to-its-name/109069/
> --michael cox
> -------------- next part --------------
>> From: Ed Mendez <[1][47]edducati at mac.com>
>> Subject: [DeTomaso] De Tomaso Pantera
> GTS on eBay! again $250K!!
>> A
>> Hi! I found this on eBay and thought
> you might like it! Check it out
> now!A De Tomaso:
>> Other Pantera GTSA [2][48]http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
> These guys found that ad too. A :^)
>
> [3][49]http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-pantera
> -has
> -only-785-miles-to-its-name/109069/
> A A --michael cox
> References
> 1. [50]mailto:edducati at mac.com
> 2. [51]http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
> 3.
>
> [52]http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-pantera-ha
> s-only-785-miles-to-its-name/109069/
> ------------------------------
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 08:05:15 -0700
> From: "Stephen" <[53]steve at snclocks.com>
> To: "'marshallgsmith'" <[54]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>,
> <[55]P6746 at aol.com>,
> <[56]asajay at asajay.com>,
> <[57]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost,
> paper vs. electronic
> Message-ID:
> <004701d1f706$6ead4a50$4c07def0$@snclocks.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> Having been on Boards before - I'd suggest
> the current Board deserves
> some time to catch their breath and
> recover from the situation they
> have recently been through. It is amazing
> how much time something like
> this takes - and I suspect everyone on the
> Board would like to catch up
> on all the things they have let slide
> while coping with the removal of
> a president and all the animosity and
> e-mails the whole mess generated.
> It's so easy to ask questions - but takes
> a lot more time to figure out
> how to do everything asked below. For now,
> let's just let the Board
> recover and slowly get some of the loose
> ends taken care of.
> Stephen Nelson
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso
> [[58]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com]
> On
> Behalf Of marshallgsmith
> Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2016 8:28 PM
> To: [59]P6746 at aol.com; [60]asajay at asajay.com;
> [61]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost,
> paper vs. electronic
> I have a couple questions Bob:
>> Calling this situation "multiple dues
> levels" seems to be making the
> issue too complex. There are some members
> that are opting to not have
> printed magazines mailed which should make
> those members eligible for a
> discount because of the savings.
>> What is your estimate of the length
> of time that it would take the
> board to arrange for a vote of the
> membership to change the bylaws to
> allow for this discount?
>> Who specifically made that
> apples-to-apples comparison you refer to?
>> I agree that the editors should have
> the most influence on the
> process. However, our editors of both
> publications seem to have a hard
> time reporting to the members about ANY
> issues pertaining to the
> publication's themselves. Might that
> change in the near future or will
> radio silence be the norm here?
> Marshall Smith
> Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone
> -------- Original message --------
> From: P6746--- via DeTomaso <[62]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Date: 8/14/16 3:10 PM (GMT-08:00)
> To: [63]asajay at asajay.com,
> [64]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost,
> paper vs. electronic
> To use a cliche, we're working on it.
> Most of what has been mentioned is in the
> pipeline. However, there are
> restrictions, particularly with the
> By-Laws as they currently stand.
> There are no provisions for multiple dues
> levels, particularly
> pertaining to how a member elects to have
> their club publications
> delivered, etc. That will take time as any
> changes or amendments must
> be approved by the whole membership.
> The consensus seems to be that the
> Profiles would continue as a print
> publication for all except foreign members
> who elect to receive it
> digitally.
> As far as printing is concerned, it is
> that first copy that is so
> expensive, it is the subsequent copies
> that bring down the per unit
> cost. So as fewer units are produced and
> shipped, the cost per unit
> increases but not proportionately.
> An apples to apples comparison was made
> between an online printer and
> the current printer for both printing and
> mailing and the difference
> was pennies. That wasn't pennies per unit
> but for the whole run.
> As far as I am concerned, it is the
> editors who should have the most
> influence as to how and where their
> product is produced. They are the
> ones who must work with the printers and
> mailing houses on a regular
> basis.
> Bob Reid
> In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M.
> Eastern Daylight Time,
> [65]asajay at asajay.com
> writes:
> The last I heard (and I may have heard
> wrong), the board was interested
> in doing a -real- accounting comparison of
> printing costs, so for me,
> it's a wait and see kind of thing. I
> agree, if POCA was missing out on
> full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W
> then something is amiss.
> However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't
> account for all costs
> properly. I have more faith that the
> present board members will
> properly investigate and sort it out for
> everyone.
> I am on-board with electronic delivery,
> though I do admit it's nice to
> just sit back and read a paper copy too.
> It's also easier to hand-off
> to Sam so he can read it later. How do you
> really fix that?
> I would think (and I don't know), that the
> ClubExpress membership
> database might be able to include a
> "preference" as part of the
> member's profile or details. Just as I can
> set an address and phone
> number, if I could check a box for
> Electronic delivery or paper copies,
> or both, and select whatever I wanted for
> each item (Profiles versus
> Newsletter), that might be ideal.
> However, I'm also familiar with quantity
> discounting. It very well
> could be that it costs the same amount to
> print 500 as it does to print
> 50, or 10 (but I doubt it). I imagine
> those are considerations the
> board will look at as well.
> Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has
> claimed, I have heard (from more
> than one person), that Jack and Mike did
> not resign "because POCA
> changed printers;" it was over "control"
> of newsletter content that in
> essence fell outside the bounds of the
> by-laws. For a guy that appeared
> to try very hard to get everyone else to
> follow the by-laws (and it's
> unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt
> certainly didn't feel they
> applied to him.
> For the record, as I understand it, POCA
> has changed printers -twice-
> since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were
> related to the DeRykes) got out of
> the business. So the "family tie-in"
> previously eluded to, was not a
> factor in the resignations.
> Just my $1.50 (two cents adjusted for
> inflation) Asa Jay
> Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR,
> Retired & Shelley Marie Spokane,
> WA
> ******************************
> [66]http://w7tsc.org
> [67]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not
> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing
> list
> [68]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> [69]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> To manage your subscription (change email
> address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> use the links above.
> Members who post to this list grant
> license to the list to forward any
> message posted here to all past, current,
> or future members of the
> list. They also grant the list owner
> permission to maintain an archive
> or approve the archiving of list
> messages.
> To use a cliche, we're working on it.
> Most of what has been mentioned is in the
> pipeline. However, there are
> restrictions, particularly with the
> By-Laws as they currently stand.
> There are no provisions for multiple dues
> levels,
> particularly pertaining to how a member
> elects to have their club
> publications delivered, etc. That will
> take time as any changes or
> amendments must be approved by the whole
> membership.
> The consensus seems to be that the
> Profiles would continue as a print
> publication for all except foreign members
> who elect to receive it
> digitally.
> As far as printing is concerned, it is
> that first copy that is so
> expensive, it is the subsequent copies
> that bring down the per unit
> cost. So as fewer units are produced and
> shipped, the cost per unit
> increases but not proportionately.
> An apples to apples comparison was made
> between an online printer and
> the current printer for both printing and
> mailing and the difference
> was pennies. That wasn't pennies per unit
> but for the whole run.
> As far as I am concerned, it is the
> editors who should have the most
> influence as to how and where their
> product is produced. They are the
> ones who must work with the printers and
> mailing houses on a regular
> basis.
> Bob Reid
> In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M.
> Eastern Daylight Time,
> [70]asajay at asajay.com
> writes:
> The last I heard (and I may have heard
> wrong), the board was
> interested
> in doing a -real- accounting comparison of
> printing costs, so for
> me,
> it's a wait and see kind of thing. I
> agree, if POCA was missing out
> on
> full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W
> then something is amiss.
> However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't
> account for all costs
> properly. I have more faith that the
> present board members will
> properly investigate and sort it out for
> everyone.
> I am on-board with electronic delivery,
> though I do admit it's nice
> to
> just sit back and read a paper copy too.
> It's also easier to
> hand-off
> to Sam so he can read it later. How do you
> really fix that?
> I would think (and I don't know), that the
> ClubExpress membership
> database might be able to include a
> "preference" as part of the
> member's
> profile or details. Just as I can set an
> address and phone number,
> if I
> could check a box for Electronic delivery
> or paper copies, or both,
> and
> select whatever I wanted for each item
> (Profiles versus Newsletter),
> that might be ideal.
> However, I'm also familiar with quantity
> discounting. It very well
> could be that it costs the same amount to
> print 500 as it does to
> print
> 50, or 10 (but I doubt it). I imagine
> those are considerations the
> board will look at as well.
> Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has
> claimed, I have heard (from
> more
> than one person), that Jack and Mike did
> not resign "because POCA
> changed printers;" it was over "control"
> of newsletter content that
> in
> essence fell outside the bounds of the
> by-laws. For a guy that
> appeared
> to try very hard to get everyone else to
> follow the by-laws (and
> it's
> unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt
> certainly didn't feel they
> applied
> to him.
> For the record, as I understand it, POCA
> has changed printers
> -twice-
> since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were
> related to the DeRykes) got out
> of
> the business. So the "family tie-in"
> previously eluded to, was not
> a
> factor in the resignations.
> Just my $1.50 (two cents adjusted for
> inflation)
> Asa Jay
> Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR,
> Retired
> & Shelley Marie
> Spokane, WA
> ******************************
> [71]http://w7tsc.org
> [72]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by
> POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
> Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [73]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> [74]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> To manage your subscription (change email
> address, unsubscribe,
> etc.) use the links above.
> Members who post to this list grant
> license to the list to forward
> any message posted here to all past,
> current, or future members of
> the list. They also grant the list owner
> permission to maintain an
> archive or approve the archiving of list
> messages.
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not
> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing
> list
> [75]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> [76]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> To manage your subscription (change email
> address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> use the links above.
> Members who post to this list grant
> license to the list to forward any
> message posted here to all past, current,
> or future members of the
> list. They also grant the list owner
> permission to maintain an archive
> or approve the archiving of list
> messages.
> ------------------------------
> Subject: Digest Footer
> _______________________________________________
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
> Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [77]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> [78]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> Members who post to this list grant
> license to the list to forward any
> message posted here to all past, current,
> or future members of the
> list. They also grant the list owner
> permission to maintain an archive
> or approve the archiving of list
> messages.
> ------------------------------
> End of DeTomaso Digest, Vol 146, Issue 20
> *****************************************
> References
> 1. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
> 2. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 3. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 4. mailto:request at server.detomasolist.com
> 5. mailto:owner at server.detomasolist.com
> 6. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
> 7. mailto:P6746 at aol.com
> 8. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
> 9. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 10. mailto:sdxpj9k7caacwyvlamgw7uly.1471231663405 at email.android.com
> 11. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 12. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
> 13. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 14. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
> 15. http://w7tsc.org/
> 16. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
> 17. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 18. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 19. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
> 20. http://w7tsc.org/
> 21. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
> 22. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 23. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 24. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 25. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 26. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 27. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
> 28. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 29. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
> 30. http://w7tsc.org/
> 31. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
> 32. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 33. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 34. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
> 35. http://w7tsc.org/
> 36. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
> 37. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 38. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 39. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 40. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 41. mailto:coxmichaelt at gmail.com
> 42. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 43. mailto:ynAnbzepC1U9QH+A_Q at mail.gmail.com
> 44. mailto:edducati at mac.com
> 45. http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
> 46.
> http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-pantera-has-on
> ly-785-miles-to-its-name/109069/
> 47. mailto:edducati at mac.com
> 48. http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
> 49.
> http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-pantera-has
> 50. mailto:edducati at mac.com?
> 51. http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
> 52.
> http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-pantera-has-on
> ly-785-miles-to-its-name/109069/
> 53. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
> 54. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
> 55. mailto:P6746 at aol.com
> 56. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
> 57. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 58. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com?
> 59. mailto:P6746 at aol.com
> 60. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
> 61. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 62. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 63. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
> 64. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 65. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
> 66. http://w7tsc.org/
> 67. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
> 68. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 69. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 70. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
> 71. http://w7tsc.org/
> 72. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
> 73. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 74. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 75. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 76. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 77. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 78. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> To manage your subscription (change email address,
> unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to
> forward any message posted here to all past, current, or
> future members of the list. They also grant the list owner
> permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving
> of list messages.
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> use the links above.
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
> list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
> or approve the archiving of list messages.
> I have digested all the emails on this topic and to be honest it
> still
> doesn't sit well in my gut.
> Presumably the BOD voted in favor of changing printers based upon
> the
> quotes presented. Did they not have all the facts and
> if not why did they not question further? Did Jack have all the
> facts w
> hen he resigned or were his and Mike Haney's resignations simply an
> outright stand against changing printer?
> Why did Michael push to change printer if he knew there was only
> pennies between it?
> Julian
> __________________________________________________________________
> From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf
> of
> marshall smith <marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
> Sent: Monday, August 15, 2016 10:11 AM
> To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com; laurieferrari at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations
> I find it funny that three months after the Fun Rally we are now
> hearing that Shortt's bid for printing did not include shipping.
> Shortt
> is a lot of things but a mistake like this...?
> I was listening in on this meeting also and I know what I heard.
> Apparently, the board convinced 'some' members of this so-called
> discrepancy month's ago. Why wasn't this information, if it exists,
> relayed to ALL of us in a timely manner?
> Marshall
> --------------------------------------------
> On Mon, 8/15/16, Laurie Ferrari via DeTomaso
> <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations
> To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Date: Monday, August 15, 2016, 9:57 AM
> Dear AJ,
> I have always respected you and your
> opinions but in this case you are
> incorrect as far as the resignation of
> Jack DeRyke. I was on the Board
> of Directors' conference call where he was
> asked to stay and he
> adamantly refused to if the printer
> changed. Jack's resignation was
> specifically because of the change in
> printer! You can go research
> that phone conference call, or the minutes
> of the meeting, as the facts
> are saved. As far as Mike Haney's
> resignation, that was done by his
> Mrs. for their reasons which most likely
> were aligned with their
> parents.
> Laurie
> In a message dated 8/13/2016
> 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,?
> [1]asajay at asajay.com
> writes:
> The last? I heard (and I may have
> heard wrong), the board was
> interested
> in doing a? -real- accounting
> comparison of printing costs, so for
> me,
> it's a wait and? see kind of
> thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing
> out on
> full-color? and paying $8,000 more
> for B/W then something is amiss.?
> However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt
> didn't account for all costs
> properly.? I? have more faith that
> the present board members will
> properly investigate? and sort it
> out for everyone.
> I am on-board with electronic
> delivery,? though I do admit it's nice
> to
> just sit back and read a paper
> copy? too.? It's also easier to
> hand-off
> to Sam so he can read it? later.?
> How do you really fix that?
> I would think (and I don't? know),
> that the ClubExpress membership
> database might be able to include
> a? "preference" as part of the
> member's
> profile or details.? Just as I? can
> set an address and phone number,
> if I
> could check a box for Electronic?
> delivery or paper copies, or both,
> and
> select whatever I wanted for each?
> item (Profiles versus
> Newsletter),
> that might be ideal.
> However,? I'm also familiar with
> quantity discounting.? It very well
> could be? that it costs the same
> amount to print 500 as it does to
> print
> 50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I
> imagine those are considerations the
> board will? look at as well.
> Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie
> has claimed, I have? heard (from
> more
> than one person), that Jack and
> Mike did not resign? "because POCA
> changed printers;" it was over
> "control" of newsletter? content that
> in
> essence fell outside the bounds of
> the by-laws.? For? a guy that
> appeared
> to try very hard to get everyone
> else to follow the? by-laws (and
> it's
> unwritten code of ethics), Mr.
> Shortt certainly didn't? feel they
> applied
> to him.
> For the record, as I understand it,
> POCA? has changed printers
> -twice-
> since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were
> related? to the DeRykes) got out
> of
> the business.? So the "family
> tie-in"? previously eluded to, was not
> a
> factor in the resignations.
> Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted
> for inflation)
> Asa? Jay
> Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt,
> USAFR, Retired
> &? Shelley? Mar
> -----Original Message-----
> From: detomaso-request
> <detomaso-request at server.detomasolist.com>
> To: detomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2016 9:00 am
> Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 146, Issue
> 20
> Send DeTomaso mailing list submissions to
> [2]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World
> Wide Web, visit
> [3]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> or, via email, send a message with subject
> or body 'help' to
> detomaso-[4]request at server.detomasolist.com
> You can reach the person managing the list
> at
> detomaso-[5]owner at server.detomasolist.com
> When replying, please edit your Subject
> line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of DeTomaso digest..."
> Daily Detomaso List Digest
> Today's Topics:
> 1. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs.
> electronic (marshallgsmith)
> 2. Re: De Tomaso Pantera GTS on eBay!
> again $250K!! (Michael Cox)
> 3. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs.
> electronic (Stephen)
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 20:27:43 -0700
> From: marshallgsmith <[6]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
> To: [7]P6746 at aol.com, [8]asajay at asajay.com,
> [9]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost,
> paper vs. electronic
> Message-ID:
> <[10]sdxpj9k7caacwyvlamgw7uly.1471231663405 at email.android.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> I have a couple questions Bob:
>> Calling this situation "multiple dues
> levels" seems to be making the
> issue too complex. There are some members
> that are opting to not have
> printed magazines mailed which should make
> those members eligible for a
> discount because of the savings.
>> What is your estimate of the length
> of time that it would take the
> board to arrange for a vote of the
> membership to change the bylaws to
> allow for this discount?
>> Who specifically made that
> apples-to-apples comparison you refer to?
>> I agree that the editors should have
> the most influence ?on the
> process. ?However, our editors of both
> publications seem to have a hard
> time reporting to the members about ANY
> issues pertaining to the
> publication's themselves. Might that
> change in the near future or will
> radio silence be the norm here?
> Marshall Smith
> Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone
> -------- Original message --------
> From: P6746--- via DeTomaso
> <[11]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Date: 8/14/16 3:10 PM (GMT-08:00)
> To: [12]asajay at asajay.com,
> [13]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost,
> paper vs. electronic
> To use a cliche, we're working on it.?
> Most of what has been mentioned is in the
> pipeline.?? However, there
> are
> restrictions, particularly with the
> By-Laws as they currently? stand.?
> There
> are no provisions for multiple dues
> levels,? particularly pertaining to
> how a
> member elects to have their club?
> publications delivered, etc.? That
> will
> take time as any changes or? amendments
> must be approved by the whole
> membership.
> The consensus seems to be that the
> Profiles would? continue as a print
> publication for all except foreign members
> who elect to? receive it
> digitally.?
> As far as printing is concerned, it is
> that first copy that is? so
> expensive, it is the subsequent copies
> that bring down the per unit?
> cost.? So as
> fewer units are produced and shipped, the
> cost per unit? increases but
> not
> proportionately.??
> An apples to apples comparison was made
> between an online? printer and
> the
> current printer for both printing and
> mailing and the difference? was
> pennies.? That wasn't pennies per unit but
> for the whole run.?
> As far as I am concerned, it is the
> editors who should have? the most
> influence as to how and where their
> product is produced.? They are? the
> ones who
> must work with the printers and mailing
> houses on a regular? basis.
> Bob Reid?
> In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M.
> Eastern Daylight Time,?
> [14]asajay at asajay.com
> writes:
> The last? I heard (and I may have heard
> wrong), the board was
> interested
> in doing a? -real- accounting comparison
> of printing costs, so for me,
> it's a wait and? see kind of thing.? I
> agree, if POCA was missing out
> on
> full-color? and paying $8,000 more for B/W
> then something is amiss.?
> However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt didn't
> account for all costs
> properly.? I? have more faith that the
> present board members will
> properly investigate? and sort it out for
> everyone.
> I am on-board with electronic delivery,?
> though I do admit it's nice to
> just sit back and read a paper copy? too.?
> It's also easier to hand-off
> to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do
> you really fix that?
> I would think (and I don't? know), that
> the ClubExpress membership
> database might be able to include a?
> "preference" as part of the
> member's
> profile or details.? Just as I? can set an
> address and phone number, if
> I
> could check a box for Electronic? delivery
> or paper copies, or both,
> and
> select whatever I wanted for each? item
> (Profiles versus Newsletter),
> that might be ideal.
> However,? I'm also familiar with quantity
> discounting.? It very well
> could be? that it costs the same amount to
> print 500 as it does to
> print
> 50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I imagine
> those are considerations the
> board will? look at as well.
> Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has
> claimed, I have? heard (from
> more
> than one person), that Jack and Mike did
> not resign? "because POCA
> changed printers;" it was over "control"
> of newsletter? content that in
> essence fell outside the bounds of the
> by-laws.? For? a guy that
> appeared
> to try very hard to get everyone else to
> follow the? by-laws (and it's
> unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt
> certainly didn't? feel they
> applied
> to him.
> For the record, as I understand it, POCA?
> has changed printers -twice-
> since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were
> related? to the DeRykes) got out of
> the business.? So the "family tie-in"?
> previously eluded to, was not a
> factor in the resignations.
> Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted for
> inflation)
> Asa? Jay
> Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR,
> Retired
> &? Shelley? Marie
> Spokane,? WA
> ******************************
> [15]http://w7tsc.org
> [16]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso? Email List is not managed by
> POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5?
> Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing? list
> [17]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> [18]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> To? manage your subscription (change email
> address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> use
> the? links above.
> Members who post to this list grant
> license to the list to? forward any
> message posted here to all past, current,
> or future members of the?
> list. They
> also grant the list owner permission to
> maintain an archive or? approve
> the
> archiving of list? messages.
> ?? To use a cliche, we're working on it.
> ?? Most of what has been mentioned is in
> the pipeline.? However, there
> are
> ?? restrictions, particularly with the
> By-Laws as they currently stand.
> ?? There are no provisions for multiple
> dues levels,
> ?? particularly pertaining to how a member
> elects to have their club
> ?? publications delivered, etc.? That will
> take time as any changes or
> ?? amendments must be approved by the
> whole membership.
> ?? The consensus seems to be that the
> Profiles would continue as a
> print
> ?? publication for all except foreign
> members who elect to receive it
> ?? digitally.
> ?? As far as printing is concerned, it is
> that first copy that is so
> ?? expensive, it is the subsequent copies
> that bring down the per unit
> ?? cost.? So as fewer units are produced
> and shipped, the cost per unit
> ?? increases but not proportionately.
> ?? An apples to apples comparison was made
> between an online printer
> and
> ?? the current printer for both printing
> and mailing and the difference
> ?? was pennies.? That wasn't pennies per
> unit but for the whole run.
> ?? As far as I am concerned, it is the
> editors who should have the most
> ?? influence as to how and where their
> product is produced.? They are
> the
> ?? ones who must work with the printers
> and mailing houses on a regular
> ?? basis.
> ?? Bob Reid
> ?? In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24
> P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> ?? [19]asajay at asajay.com
> writes:
> ???? The last I heard (and I may have
> heard wrong), the board was
> ???? interested
> ???? in doing a -real- accounting
> comparison of printing costs, so for
> ???? me,
> ???? it's a wait and see kind of thing.? I
> agree, if POCA was missing
> out
> ???? on
> ???? full-color and paying $8,000 more for
> B/W then something is amiss.
> ???? However, I also believe Mr. Shortt
> didn't account for all costs
> ???? properly.? I have more faith that the
> present board members will
> ???? properly investigate and sort it out
> for everyone.
> ???? I am on-board with electronic
> delivery, though I do admit it's
> nice
> ???? to
> ???? just sit back and read a paper copy
> too.? It's also easier to
> ???? hand-off
> ???? to Sam so he can read it later.? How
> do you really fix that?
> ???? I would think (and I don't know),
> that the ClubExpress membership
> ???? database might be able to include a
> "preference" as part of the
> ???? member's
> ???? profile or details.? Just as I can
> set an address and phone
> number,
> ???? if I
> ???? could check a box for Electronic
> delivery or paper copies, or
> both,
> ???? and
> ???? select whatever I wanted for each
> item (Profiles versus
> Newsletter),
> ???? that might be ideal.
> ???? However, I'm also familiar with
> quantity discounting.? It very
> well
> ???? could be that it costs the same
> amount to print 500 as it does to
> ???? print
> ???? 50, or 10 (but I doubt it).? I
> imagine those are considerations
> the
> ???? board will look at as well.
> ???? Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie
> has claimed, I have heard (from
> ???? more
> ???? than one person), that Jack and Mike
> did not resign "because POCA
> ???? changed printers;" it was over
> "control" of newsletter content
> that
> ???? in
> ???? essence fell outside the bounds of
> the by-laws.? For a guy that
> ???? appeared
> ???? to try very hard to get everyone else
> to follow the by-laws (and
> ???? it's
> ???? unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt
> certainly didn't feel they
> ???? applied
> ???? to him.
> ???? For the record, as I understand it,
> POCA has changed printers
> ???? -twice-
> ???? since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were
> related to the DeRykes) got
> out
> ???? of
> ???? the business.? So the "family tie-in"
> previously eluded to, was
> not
> ???? a
> ???? factor in the resignations.
> ???? Just my $1.50? (two cents adjusted
> for inflation)
> ???? Asa? Jay
> ???? Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt,
> USAFR, Retired
> ???? &? Shelley Marie
> ???? Spokane, WA
> ???? ******************************
> ???? [20]http://w7tsc.org
> ???? [21]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
> ????
> _______________________________________________
> ???? Detomaso Email List is not managed by
> POCA
> ???? Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
> Megabytes
> ???? DeTomaso mailing list
> ???? [22]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> ????
> [23]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> ???? To manage your subscription (change
> email address, unsubscribe,
> ???? etc.) use the links above.
> ???? Members who post to this list grant
> license to the list to forward
> ???? any message posted here to all past,
> current, or future members of
> ???? the list. They also grant the list
> owner permission to maintain an
> ???? archive or approve the archiving of
> list messages.
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by
> POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
> Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [24]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> [25]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> To manage your subscription (change email
> address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> use the links above.
> Members who post to this list grant
> license to the list to forward any
> message posted here to all past, current,
> or future members of the
> list. They also grant the list owner
> permission to maintain an archive
> or approve the archiving of list
> messages.
> -------------- next part --------------
> I have a couple questions Bob:
>> Calling this situation "multiple dues
> levels" seems to be making the
> issue too complex. There are some members
> that are opting to not have
> printed magazines mailed which should make
> those members eligible for a
> discount because of the savings.
>> What is your estimate of the length
> of time that it would take the
> board to arrange for a vote of the
> membership to change the bylaws to
> allow for this discount?
>> Who specifically made that
> apples-to-apples comparison you refer to?
>> I agree that the editors should have
> the most influence on the
> process. However, our editors of both
> publications seem to have a hard
> time reporting to the members about ANY
> issues pertaining to the
> publication's themselves. Might that
> change in the near future or will
> radio silence be the norm here?
> Marshall Smith
> Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone
> -------- Original message --------
> From: P6746--- via DeTomaso
> <[26]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Date: 8/14/16 3:10 PM (GMT-08:00)
> To: [27]asajay at asajay.com,
> [28]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost,
> paper vs. electronic
> To use a cliche, we're working on it.
> Most of what has been mentioned is in the
> pipeline. However, there
> are
> restrictions, particularly with the
> By-Laws as they currently stand.
> There
> are no provisions for multiple dues
> levels, particularly pertaining to
> how a
> member elects to have their club
> publications delivered, etc. That
> will
> take time as any changes or amendments
> must be approved by the whole
> membership.
> The consensus seems to be that the
> Profiles would continue as a print
> publication for all except foreign members
> who elect to receive it
> digitally.
> As far as printing is concerned, it is
> that first copy that is so
> expensive, it is the subsequent copies
> that bring down the per unit
> cost. So as
> fewer units are produced and shipped, the
> cost per unit increases but
> not
> proportionately.
> An apples to apples comparison was made
> between an online printer and
> the
> current printer for both printing and
> mailing and the difference was
> pennies. That wasn't pennies per unit but
> for the whole run.
> As far as I am concerned, it is the
> editors who should have the most
> influence as to how and where their
> product is produced. They are the
> ones who
> must work with the printers and mailing
> houses on a regular basis.
> Bob Reid
> In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M.
> Eastern Daylight Time,
> [29]asajay at asajay.com
> writes:
> The last I heard (and I may have heard
> wrong), the board was
> interested
> in doing a -real- accounting comparison of
> printing costs, so for me,
> it's a wait and see kind of thing. I
> agree, if POCA was missing out
> on
> full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W
> then something is amiss.
> However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't
> account for all costs
> properly. I have more faith that the
> present board members will
> properly investigate and sort it out for
> everyone.
> I am on-board with electronic delivery,
> though I do admit it's nice to
> just sit back and read a paper copy too.
> It's also easier to hand-off
> to Sam so he can read it later. How do you
> really fix that?
> I would think (and I don't know), that the
> ClubExpress membership
> database might be able to include a
> "preference" as part of the
> member's
> profile or details. Just as I can set an
> address and phone number, if
> I
> could check a box for Electronic delivery
> or paper copies, or both,
> and
> select whatever I wanted for each item
> (Profiles versus Newsletter),
> that might be ideal.
> However, I'm also familiar with quantity
> discounting. It very well
> could be that it costs the same amount to
> print 500 as it does to
> print
> 50, or 10 (but I doubt it). I imagine
> those are considerations the
> board will look at as well.
> Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has
> claimed, I have heard (from
> more
> than one person), that Jack and Mike did
> not resign "because POCA
> changed printers;" it was over "control"
> of newsletter content that in
> essence fell outside the bounds of the
> by-laws. For a guy that
> appeared
> to try very hard to get everyone else to
> follow the by-laws (and it's
> unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt
> certainly didn't feel they
> applied
> to him.
> For the record, as I understand it, POCA
> has changed printers -twice-
> since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were
> related to the DeRykes) got out of
> the business. So the "family tie-in"
> previously eluded to, was not a
> factor in the resignations.
> Just my $1.50 (two cents adjusted for
> inflation)
> Asa Jay
> Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR,
> Retired
> & Shelley Marie
> Spokane, WA
> ******************************
> [30]http://w7tsc.org
> [31]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by
> POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
> Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [32]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> [33]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> To manage your subscription (change email
> address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> use
> the links above.
> Members who post to this list grant
> license to the list to forward any
> message posted here to all past, current,
> or future members of the
> list. They
> also grant the list owner permission to
> maintain an archive or approve
> the
> archiving of list messages.
> To use a cliche, we're working on it.
> Most of what has been mentioned is in the
> pipeline. However, there
> are
> restrictions, particularly with the
> By-Laws as they currently stand.
> There are no provisions for multiple dues
> levels,
> particularly pertaining to how a member
> elects to have their club
> publications delivered, etc. That will
> take time as any changes or
> amendments must be approved by the whole
> membership.
> The consensus seems to be that the
> Profiles would continue as a
> print
> publication for all except foreign members
> who elect to receive it
> digitally.
> As far as printing is concerned, it is
> that first copy that is so
> expensive, it is the subsequent copies
> that bring down the per unit
> cost. So as fewer units are produced and
> shipped, the cost per unit
> increases but not proportionately.
> An apples to apples comparison was made
> between an online printer
> and
> the current printer for both printing and
> mailing and the difference
> was pennies. That wasn't pennies per unit
> but for the whole run.
> As far as I am concerned, it is the
> editors who should have the most
> influence as to how and where their
> product is produced. They are
> the
> ones who must work with the printers and
> mailing houses on a regular
> basis.
> Bob Reid
> In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M.
> Eastern Daylight Time,
> [34]asajay at asajay.com
> writes:
> The last I heard (and I may have heard
> wrong), the board was
> interested
> in doing a -real- accounting comparison of
> printing costs, so for
> me,
> it's a wait and see kind of thing. I
> agree, if POCA was missing
> out
> on
> full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W
> then something is amiss.
> However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't
> account for all costs
> properly. I have more faith that the
> present board members will
> properly investigate and sort it out for
> everyone.
> I am on-board with electronic delivery,
> though I do admit it's
> nice
> to
> just sit back and read a paper copy too.
> It's also easier to
> hand-off
> to Sam so he can read it later. How do you
> really fix that?
> I would think (and I don't know), that the
> ClubExpress membership
> database might be able to include a
> "preference" as part of the
> member's
> profile or details. Just as I can set an
> address and phone
> number,
> if I
> could check a box for Electronic delivery
> or paper copies, or
> both,
> and
> select whatever I wanted for each item
> (Profiles versus
> Newsletter),
> that might be ideal.
> However, I'm also familiar with quantity
> discounting. It very
> well
> could be that it costs the same amount to
> print 500 as it does to
> print
> 50, or 10 (but I doubt it). I imagine
> those are considerations
> the
> board will look at as well.
> Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has
> claimed, I have heard (from
> more
> than one person), that Jack and Mike did
> not resign "because POCA
> changed printers;" it was over "control"
> of newsletter content
> that
> in
> essence fell outside the bounds of the
> by-laws. For a guy that
> appeared
> to try very hard to get everyone else to
> follow the by-laws (and
> it's
> unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt
> certainly didn't feel they
> applied
> to him.
> For the record, as I understand it, POCA
> has changed printers
> -twice-
> since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were
> related to the DeRykes) got
> out
> of
> the business. So the "family tie-in"
> previously eluded to, was
> not
> a
> factor in the resignations.
> Just my $1.50 (two cents adjusted for
> inflation)
> Asa Jay
> Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR,
> Retired
> & Shelley Marie
> Spokane, WA
> ******************************
> [35]http://w7tsc.org
> [36]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by
> POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
> Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [37]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> [38]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> To manage your subscription (change email
> address, unsubscribe,
> etc.) use the links above.
> Members who post to this list grant
> license to the list to forward
> any message posted here to all past,
> current, or future members of
> the list. They also grant the list owner
> permission to maintain an
> archive or approve the archiving of list
> messages.
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by
> POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
> Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [39]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> [40]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> To manage your subscription (change email
> address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> use the links above.
> Members who post to this list grant
> license to the list to forward any
> message posted here to all past, current,
> or future members of the
> list. They also grant the list owner
> permission to maintain an archive
> or approve the archiving of list
> messages.
> ------------------------------
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 20:56:45 -0700
> From: Michael Cox <[41]coxmichaelt at gmail.com>
> To: [42]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] De Tomaso Pantera
> GTS on eBay! again $250K!!
> Message-ID:
>
> <CAMPkPf3HQcqg5vLxgjpJP=7z=UBbrVs=[43]ynAnbzepC1U9QH+A_Q at mail.gmail
> .com
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> From: Ed Mendez <[44]edducati at mac.com>
>> Subject: [DeTomaso] De Tomaso Pantera
> GTS on eBay! again $250K!!
>>
>> Hi! I found this on eBay and thought
> you might like it! Check it out
> now! De Tomaso:
>> Other Pantera GTS [45]http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
> These guys found that ad too. :^)
>
> [46]http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-panter
> a-ha
> s-only-785-miles-to-its-name/109069/
> --michael cox
> -------------- next part --------------
>> From: Ed Mendez <[1][47]edducati at mac.com>
>> Subject: [DeTomaso] De Tomaso Pantera
> GTS on eBay! again $250K!!
>> A
>> Hi! I found this on eBay and thought
> you might like it! Check it out
> now!A De Tomaso:
>> Other Pantera GTSA [2][48]http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
> These guys found that ad too. A :^)
>
> [3][49]http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-pan
> tera
> -has
> -only-785-miles-to-its-name/109069/
> A A --michael cox
> References
> 1. [50]mailto:edducati at mac.com
> 2. [51]http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
> 3.
>
> [52]http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-panter
> a-ha
> s-only-785-miles-to-its-name/109069/
> ------------------------------
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 08:05:15 -0700
> From: "Stephen" <[53]steve at snclocks.com>
> To: "'marshallgsmith'" <[54]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>,
> <[55]P6746 at aol.com>,
> <[56]asajay at asajay.com>,
> <[57]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost,
> paper vs. electronic
> Message-ID:
> <004701d1f706$6ead4a50$4c07def0$@snclocks.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> Having been on Boards before - I'd suggest
> the current Board deserves
> some time to catch their breath and
> recover from the situation they
> have recently been through. It is amazing
> how much time something like
> this takes - and I suspect everyone on the
> Board would like to catch up
> on all the things they have let slide
> while coping with the removal of
> a president and all the animosity and
> e-mails the whole mess generated.
> It's so easy to ask questions - but takes
> a lot more time to figure out
> how to do everything asked below. For now,
> let's just let the Board
> recover and slowly get some of the loose
> ends taken care of.
> Stephen Nelson
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso
> [[58]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com]
> On
> Behalf Of marshallgsmith
> Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2016 8:28 PM
> To: [59]P6746 at aol.com; [60]asajay at asajay.com;
> [61]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost,
> paper vs. electronic
> I have a couple questions Bob:
>> Calling this situation "multiple dues
> levels" seems to be making the
> issue too complex. There are some members
> that are opting to not have
> printed magazines mailed which should make
> those members eligible for a
> discount because of the savings.
>> What is your estimate of the length
> of time that it would take the
> board to arrange for a vote of the
> membership to change the bylaws to
> allow for this discount?
>> Who specifically made that
> apples-to-apples comparison you refer to?
>> I agree that the editors should have
> the most influence on the
> process. However, our editors of both
> publications seem to have a hard
> time reporting to the members about ANY
> issues pertaining to the
> publication's themselves. Might that
> change in the near future or will
> radio silence be the norm here?
> Marshall Smith
> Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone
> -------- Original message --------
> From: P6746--- via DeTomaso
> <[62]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Date: 8/14/16 3:10 PM (GMT-08:00)
> To: [63]asajay at asajay.com,
> [64]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost,
> paper vs. electronic
> To use a cliche, we're working on it.
> Most of what has been mentioned is in the
> pipeline. However, there are
> restrictions, particularly with the
> By-Laws as they currently stand.
> There are no provisions for multiple dues
> levels, particularly
> pertaining to how a member elects to have
> their club publications
> delivered, etc. That will take time as any
> changes or amendments must
> be approved by the whole membership.
> The consensus seems to be that the
> Profiles would continue as a print
> publication for all except foreign members
> who elect to receive it
> digitally.
> As far as printing is concerned, it is
> that first copy that is so
> expensive, it is the subsequent copies
> that bring down the per unit
> cost. So as fewer units are produced and
> shipped, the cost per unit
> increases but not proportionately.
> An apples to apples comparison was made
> between an online printer and
> the current printer for both printing and
> mailing and the difference
> was pennies. That wasn't pennies per unit
> but for the whole run.
> As far as I am concerned, it is the
> editors who should have the most
> influence as to how and where their
> product is produced. They are the
> ones who must work with the printers and
> mailing houses on a regular
> basis.
> Bob Reid
> In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M.
> Eastern Daylight Time,
> [65]asajay at asajay.com
> writes:
> The last I heard (and I may have heard
> wrong), the board was interested
> in doing a -real- accounting comparison of
> printing costs, so for me,
> it's a wait and see kind of thing. I
> agree, if POCA was missing out on
> full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W
> then something is amiss.
> However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't
> account for all costs
> properly. I have more faith that the
> present board members will
> properly investigate and sort it out for
> everyone.
> I am on-board with electronic delivery,
> though I do admit it's nice to
> just sit back and read a paper copy too.
> It's also easier to hand-off
> to Sam so he can read it later. How do you
> really fix that?
> I would think (and I don't know), that the
> ClubExpress membership
> database might be able to include a
> "preference" as part of the
> member's profile or details. Just as I can
> set an address and phone
> number, if I could check a box for
> Electronic delivery or paper copies,
> or both, and select whatever I wanted for
> each item (Profiles versus
> Newsletter), that might be ideal.
> However, I'm also familiar with quantity
> discounting. It very well
> could be that it costs the same amount to
> print 500 as it does to print
> 50, or 10 (but I doubt it). I imagine
> those are considerations the
> board will look at as well.
> Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has
> claimed, I have heard (from more
> than one person), that Jack and Mike did
> not resign "because POCA
> changed printers;" it was over "control"
> of newsletter content that in
> essence fell outside the bounds of the
> by-laws. For a guy that appeared
> to try very hard to get everyone else to
> follow the by-laws (and it's
> unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt
> certainly didn't feel they
> applied to him.
> For the record, as I understand it, POCA
> has changed printers -twice-
> since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were
> related to the DeRykes) got out of
> the business. So the "family tie-in"
> previously eluded to, was not a
> factor in the resignations.
> Just my $1.50 (two cents adjusted for
> inflation) Asa Jay
> Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR,
> Retired & Shelley Marie Spokane,
> WA
> ******************************
> [66]http://w7tsc.org
> [67]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not
> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing
> list
> [68]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> [69]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> To manage your subscription (change email
> address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> use the links above.
> Members who post to this list grant
> license to the list to forward any
> message posted here to all past, current,
> or future members of the
> list. They also grant the list owner
> permission to maintain an archive
> or approve the archiving of list
> messages.
> To use a cliche, we're working on it.
> Most of what has been mentioned is in the
> pipeline. However, there are
> restrictions, particularly with the
> By-Laws as they currently stand.
> There are no provisions for multiple dues
> levels,
> particularly pertaining to how a member
> elects to have their club
> publications delivered, etc. That will
> take time as any changes or
> amendments must be approved by the whole
> membership.
> The consensus seems to be that the
> Profiles would continue as a print
> publication for all except foreign members
> who elect to receive it
> digitally.
> As far as printing is concerned, it is
> that first copy that is so
> expensive, it is the subsequent copies
> that bring down the per unit
> cost. So as fewer units are produced and
> shipped, the cost per unit
> increases but not proportionately.
> An apples to apples comparison was made
> between an online printer and
> the current printer for both printing and
> mailing and the difference
> was pennies. That wasn't pennies per unit
> but for the whole run.
> As far as I am concerned, it is the
> editors who should have the most
> influence as to how and where their
> product is produced. They are the
> ones who must work with the printers and
> mailing houses on a regular
> basis.
> Bob Reid
> In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M.
> Eastern Daylight Time,
> [70]asajay at asajay.com
> writes:
> The last I heard (and I may have heard
> wrong), the board was
> interested
> in doing a -real- accounting comparison of
> printing costs, so for
> me,
> it's a wait and see kind of thing. I
> agree, if POCA was missing out
> on
> full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W
> then something is amiss.
> However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't
> account for all costs
> properly. I have more faith that the
> present board members will
> properly investigate and sort it out for
> everyone.
> I am on-board with electronic delivery,
> though I do admit it's nice
> to
> just sit back and read a paper copy too.
> It's also easier to
> hand-off
> to Sam so he can read it later. How do you
> really fix that?
> I would think (and I don't know), that the
> ClubExpress membership
> database might be able to include a
> "preference" as part of the
> member's
> profile or details. Just as I can set an
> address and phone number,
> if I
> could check a box for Electronic delivery
> or paper copies, or both,
> and
> select whatever I wanted for each item
> (Profiles versus Newsletter),
> that might be ideal.
> However, I'm also familiar with quantity
> discounting. It very well
> could be that it costs the same amount to
> print 500 as it does to
> print
> 50, or 10 (but I doubt it). I imagine
> those are considerations the
> board will look at as well.
> Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has
> claimed, I have heard (from
> more
> than one person), that Jack and Mike did
> not resign "because POCA
> changed printers;" it was over "control"
> of newsletter content that
> in
> essence fell outside the bounds of the
> by-laws. For a guy that
> appeared
> to try very hard to get everyone else to
> follow the by-laws (and
> it's
> unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt
> certainly didn't feel they
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
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