[DeTomaso] Sam
Ken Green
kenn_green at yahoo.com
Mon Aug 15 13:58:47 EDT 2016
Laurie,
The same young people spend the rest of the day glued to their smart phones unaware of the physical world around them. I suspect they also have no interest in cars unless the cars are in a video game. They have one foot in the Matrix and would not object to living in virtual realty if that could be arranged. I worry about the future of mankind.
Ken
From: Laurie Ferrari via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
To: laurieferrari at aol.com; detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Sent: Monday, August 15, 2016 10:10 AM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Sam
p.s. In my experience with young people of the day, they are more
adapted to and capable of reading electronic material than most adults
I know. Many classrooms now use Ipads.
Laurie
I am on-board with electronic delivery,? though I do admit it's nice
to
just sit back and read a paper copy? too.? It's also easier to
hand-off
to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do you really fix that?
-----Original Message-----
From: laurieferrari <laurieferrari at aol.com>
To: detomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2016 9:57 am
Subject: Re: resignations
Dear AJ,
I have always respected you and your opinions but in this case you are
incorrect as far as the resignation of Jack DeRyke. I was on the Board
of Directors' conference call where he was asked to stay and he
adamantly refused to if the printer changed. Jack's resignation was
specifically because of the change in printer! You can go research
that phone conference call, or the minutes of the meeting, as the facts
are saved. As far as Mike Haney's resignation, that was done by his
Mrs. for their reasons which most likely were aligned with their
parents.
Laurie
In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,?
[1]asajay at asajay.com writes:
The last? I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was
interested
in doing a? -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for
me,
it's a wait and? see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing
out on
full-color? and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.?
However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs
properly.? I? have more faith that the present board members will
properly investigate? and sort it out for everyone.
I am on-board with electronic delivery,? though I do admit it's nice
to
just sit back and read a paper copy? too.? It's also easier to
hand-off
to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do you really fix that?
I would think (and I don't? know), that the ClubExpress membership
database might be able to include a? "preference" as part of the
member's
profile or details.? Just as I? can set an address and phone number,
if I
could check a box for Electronic? delivery or paper copies, or both,
and
select whatever I wanted for each? item (Profiles versus
Newsletter),
that might be ideal.
However,? I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well
could be? that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to
print
50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the
board will? look at as well.
Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have? heard (from
more
than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign? "because POCA
changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter? content that
in
essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For? a guy that
appeared
to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the? by-laws (and
it's
unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't? feel they
applied
to him.
For the record, as I understand it, POCA? has changed printers
-twice-
since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related? to the DeRykes) got out
of
the business.? So the "family tie-in"? previously eluded to, was not
a
factor in the resignations.
Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation)
Asa? Jay
Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
&? Shelley? Mar
-----Original Message-----
From: detomaso-request <detomaso-[2]request at server.detomasolist.com>
To: detomaso <[3]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2016 9:00 am
Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 146, Issue 20
Send DeTomaso mailing list submissions to
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of DeTomaso digest..."
Daily Detomaso List Digest
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic (marshallgsmith)
2. Re: De Tomaso Pantera GTS on eBay! again $250K!! (Michael Cox)
3. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic (Stephen)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 20:27:43 -0700
From: marshallgsmith <[8]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
To: [9]P6746 at aol.com, [10]asajay at asajay.com,
[11]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic
Message-ID:
<[12]sdxpj9k7caacwyvlamgw7uly.1471231663405 at email.android.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
I have a couple questions Bob:
> Calling this situation "multiple dues levels" seems to be making the
issue too complex. There are some members that are opting to not have
printed magazines mailed which should make those members eligible for a
discount because of the savings.
> What is your estimate of the length of time that it would take the
board to arrange for a vote of the membership to change the bylaws to
allow for this discount?
> Who specifically made that apples-to-apples comparison you refer to?
> I agree that the editors should have the most influence ?on the
process. ?However, our editors of both publications seem to have a hard
time reporting to the members about ANY issues pertaining to the
publication's themselves. Might that change in the near future or will
radio silence be the norm here?
Marshall Smith
Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: P6746--- via DeTomaso <[13]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Date: 8/14/16 3:10 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: [14]asajay at asajay.com, [15]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic
To use a cliche, we're working on it.?
Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline.?? However, there
are
restrictions, particularly with the By-Laws as they currently? stand.?
There
are no provisions for multiple dues levels,? particularly pertaining to
how a
member elects to have their club? publications delivered, etc.? That
will
take time as any changes or? amendments must be approved by the whole
membership.
The consensus seems to be that the Profiles would? continue as a print
publication for all except foreign members who elect to? receive it
digitally.?
As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is? so
expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit?
cost.? So as
fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit? increases but
not
proportionately.??
An apples to apples comparison was made between an online? printer and
the
current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference? was
pennies.? That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run.?
As far as I am concerned, it is the editors who should have? the most
influence as to how and where their product is produced.? They are? the
ones who
must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular? basis.
Bob Reid?
In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,?
[16]asajay at asajay.com writes:
The last? I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was
interested
in doing a? -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for me,
it's a wait and? see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing out
on
full-color? and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.?
However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs
properly.? I? have more faith that the present board members will
properly investigate? and sort it out for everyone.
I am on-board with electronic delivery,? though I do admit it's nice to
just sit back and read a paper copy? too.? It's also easier to hand-off
to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do you really fix that?
I would think (and I don't? know), that the ClubExpress membership
database might be able to include a? "preference" as part of the
member's
profile or details.? Just as I? can set an address and phone number, if
I
could check a box for Electronic? delivery or paper copies, or both,
and
select whatever I wanted for each? item (Profiles versus Newsletter),
that might be ideal.
However,? I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well
could be? that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to
print
50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the
board will? look at as well.
Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have? heard (from
more
than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign? "because POCA
changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter? content that in
essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For? a guy that
appeared
to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the? by-laws (and it's
unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't? feel they
applied
to him.
For the record, as I understand it, POCA? has changed printers -twice-
since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related? to the DeRykes) got out of
the business.? So the "family tie-in"? previously eluded to, was not a
factor in the resignations.
Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation)
Asa? Jay
Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
&? Shelley? Marie
Spokane,? WA
******************************
[17]http://w7tsc.org/
[18]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
_______________________________________________
Detomaso? Email List is not managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5? Megabytes
DeTomaso mailing? list
[19]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
[20]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To? manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
use
the? links above.
Members who post to this list grant license to the list to? forward any
message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the?
list. They
also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or? approve
the
archiving of list? messages.
?? To use a cliche, we're working on it.
?? Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline.? However, there
are
?? restrictions, particularly with the By-Laws as they currently stand.
?? There are no provisions for multiple dues levels,
?? particularly pertaining to how a member elects to have their club
?? publications delivered, etc.? That will take time as any changes or
?? amendments must be approved by the whole membership.
?? The consensus seems to be that the Profiles would continue as a
print
?? publication for all except foreign members who elect to receive it
?? digitally.
?? As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is so
?? expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit
?? cost.? So as fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit
?? increases but not proportionately.
?? An apples to apples comparison was made between an online printer
and
?? the current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference
?? was pennies.? That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run.
?? As far as I am concerned, it is the editors who should have the most
?? influence as to how and where their product is produced.? They are
the
?? ones who must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular
?? basis.
?? Bob Reid
?? In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
?? [21]asajay at asajay.com writes:
???? The last I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was
???? interested
???? in doing a -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for
???? me,
???? it's a wait and see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing
out
???? on
???? full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.
???? However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs
???? properly.? I have more faith that the present board members will
???? properly investigate and sort it out for everyone.
???? I am on-board with electronic delivery, though I do admit it's
nice
???? to
???? just sit back and read a paper copy too.? It's also easier to
???? hand-off
???? to Sam so he can read it later.? How do you really fix that?
???? I would think (and I don't know), that the ClubExpress membership
???? database might be able to include a "preference" as part of the
???? member's
???? profile or details.? Just as I can set an address and phone
number,
???? if I
???? could check a box for Electronic delivery or paper copies, or
both,
???? and
???? select whatever I wanted for each item (Profiles versus
Newsletter),
???? that might be ideal.
???? However, I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very
well
???? could be that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to
???? print
???? 50, or 10 (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations
the
???? board will look at as well.
???? Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have heard (from
???? more
???? than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign "because POCA
???? changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter content
that
???? in
???? essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For a guy that
???? appeared
???? to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the by-laws (and
???? it's
???? unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't feel they
???? applied
???? to him.
???? For the record, as I understand it, POCA has changed printers
???? -twice-
???? since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related to the DeRykes) got
out
???? of
???? the business.? So the "family tie-in" previously eluded to, was
not
???? a
???? factor in the resignations.
???? Just my $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation)
???? Asa? Jay
???? Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
???? &? Shelley Marie
???? Spokane, WA
???? ******************************
???? [22]http://w7tsc.org/
???? [23]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
???? _______________________________________________
???? Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
???? Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
???? DeTomaso mailing list
???? [24]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
???? [25]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
???? To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
???? etc.) use the links above.
???? Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
???? any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
???? the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
???? archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
DeTomaso mailing list
[26]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
[27]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
use the links above.
Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
or approve the archiving of list messages.
-------------- next part --------------
I have a couple questions Bob:
> Calling this situation "multiple dues levels" seems to be making the
issue too complex. There are some members that are opting to not have
printed magazines mailed which should make those members eligible for a
discount because of the savings.
> What is your estimate of the length of time that it would take the
board to arrange for a vote of the membership to change the bylaws to
allow for this discount?
> Who specifically made that apples-to-apples comparison you refer to?
> I agree that the editors should have the most influence on the
process. However, our editors of both publications seem to have a hard
time reporting to the members about ANY issues pertaining to the
publication's themselves. Might that change in the near future or will
radio silence be the norm here?
Marshall Smith
Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: P6746--- via DeTomaso <[28]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Date: 8/14/16 3:10 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: [29]asajay at asajay.com, [30]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic
To use a cliche, we're working on it.
Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline. However, there
are
restrictions, particularly with the By-Laws as they currently stand.
There
are no provisions for multiple dues levels, particularly pertaining to
how a
member elects to have their club publications delivered, etc. That
will
take time as any changes or amendments must be approved by the whole
membership.
The consensus seems to be that the Profiles would continue as a print
publication for all except foreign members who elect to receive it
digitally.
As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is so
expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit
cost. So as
fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit increases but
not
proportionately.
An apples to apples comparison was made between an online printer and
the
current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference was
pennies. That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run.
As far as I am concerned, it is the editors who should have the most
influence as to how and where their product is produced. They are the
ones who
must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular basis.
Bob Reid
In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
[31]asajay at asajay.com writes:
The last I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was
interested
in doing a -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for me,
it's a wait and see kind of thing. I agree, if POCA was missing out
on
full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.
However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs
properly. I have more faith that the present board members will
properly investigate and sort it out for everyone.
I am on-board with electronic delivery, though I do admit it's nice to
just sit back and read a paper copy too. It's also easier to hand-off
to Sam so he can read it later. How do you really fix that?
I would think (and I don't know), that the ClubExpress membership
database might be able to include a "preference" as part of the
member's
profile or details. Just as I can set an address and phone number, if
I
could check a box for Electronic delivery or paper copies, or both,
and
select whatever I wanted for each item (Profiles versus Newsletter),
that might be ideal.
However, I'm also familiar with quantity discounting. It very well
could be that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to
print
50, or 10 (but I doubt it). I imagine those are considerations the
board will look at as well.
Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have heard (from
more
than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign "because POCA
changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter content that in
essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws. For a guy that
appeared
to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the by-laws (and it's
unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't feel they
applied
to him.
For the record, as I understand it, POCA has changed printers -twice-
since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related to the DeRykes) got out of
the business. So the "family tie-in" previously eluded to, was not a
factor in the resignations.
Just my $1.50 (two cents adjusted for inflation)
Asa Jay
Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
& Shelley Marie
Spokane, WA
******************************
[32]http://w7tsc.org/
[33]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
DeTomaso mailing list
[34]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
[35]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
use
the links above.
Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
list. They
also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve
the
archiving of list messages.
To use a cliche, we're working on it.
Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline. However, there
are
restrictions, particularly with the By-Laws as they currently stand.
There are no provisions for multiple dues levels,
particularly pertaining to how a member elects to have their club
publications delivered, etc. That will take time as any changes or
amendments must be approved by the whole membership.
The consensus seems to be that the Profiles would continue as a
print
publication for all except foreign members who elect to receive it
digitally.
As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is so
expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit
cost. So as fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit
increases but not proportionately.
An apples to apples comparison was made between an online printer
and
the current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference
was pennies. That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run.
As far as I am concerned, it is the editors who should have the most
influence as to how and where their product is produced. They are
the
ones who must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular
basis.
Bob Reid
In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
[36]asajay at asajay.com writes:
The last I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was
interested
in doing a -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for
me,
it's a wait and see kind of thing. I agree, if POCA was missing
out
on
full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.
However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs
properly. I have more faith that the present board members will
properly investigate and sort it out for everyone.
I am on-board with electronic delivery, though I do admit it's
nice
to
just sit back and read a paper copy too. It's also easier to
hand-off
to Sam so he can read it later. How do you really fix that?
I would think (and I don't know), that the ClubExpress membership
database might be able to include a "preference" as part of the
member's
profile or details. Just as I can set an address and phone
number,
if I
could check a box for Electronic delivery or paper copies, or
both,
and
select whatever I wanted for each item (Profiles versus
Newsletter),
that might be ideal.
However, I'm also familiar with quantity discounting. It very
well
could be that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to
print
50, or 10 (but I doubt it). I imagine those are considerations
the
board will look at as well.
Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have heard (from
more
than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign "because POCA
changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter content
that
in
essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws. For a guy that
appeared
to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the by-laws (and
it's
unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't feel they
applied
to him.
For the record, as I understand it, POCA has changed printers
-twice-
since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related to the DeRykes) got
out
of
the business. So the "family tie-in" previously eluded to, was
not
a
factor in the resignations.
Just my $1.50 (two cents adjusted for inflation)
Asa Jay
Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
& Shelley Marie
Spokane, WA
******************************
[37]http://w7tsc.org/
[38]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
DeTomaso mailing list
[39]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
[40]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
etc.) use the links above.
Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
DeTomaso mailing list
[41]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
[42]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
use the links above.
Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
or approve the archiving of list messages.
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 20:56:45 -0700
From: Michael Cox <[43]coxmichaelt at gmail.com>
To: [44]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] De Tomaso Pantera GTS on eBay! again $250K!!
Message-ID:
<CAMPkPf3HQcqg5vLxgjpJP=7z=UBbrVs=[45]ynAnbzepC1U9QH+A_Q at mail.gmail.com
>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> From: Ed Mendez <[46]edducati at mac.com>
> Subject: [DeTomaso] De Tomaso Pantera GTS on eBay! again $250K!!
>
> Hi! I found this on eBay and thought you might like it! Check it out
now! De Tomaso:
> Other Pantera GTS [47]http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
These guys found that ad too. :^)
[48]http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-pantera-ha
s-only-785-miles-to-its-name/109069/
--michael cox
-------------- next part --------------
> From: Ed Mendez <[1][49]edducati at mac.com>
> Subject: [DeTomaso] De Tomaso Pantera GTS on eBay! again $250K!!
>A
> Hi! I found this on eBay and thought you might like it! Check it out
now!A De Tomaso:
> Other Pantera GTSA [2][50]http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
These guys found that ad too. A :^)
[3][51]http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-pantera
-has
-only-785-miles-to-its-name/109069/
A A --michael cox
References
1. [52]mailto:edducati at mac.com
2. [53]http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
3.
[54]http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-pantera-ha
s-only-785-miles-to-its-name/109069/
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 08:05:15 -0700
From: "Stephen" <[55]steve at snclocks.com>
To: "'marshallgsmith'" <[56]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>,
<[57]P6746 at aol.com>, <[58]asajay at asajay.com>,
<[59]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic
Message-ID: <004701d1f706$6ead4a50$4c07def0$@snclocks.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Having been on Boards before - I'd suggest the current Board deserves
some time to catch their breath and recover from the situation they
have recently been through. It is amazing how much time something like
this takes - and I suspect everyone on the Board would like to catch up
on all the things they have let slide while coping with the removal of
a president and all the animosity and e-mails the whole mess generated.
It's so easy to ask questions - but takes a lot more time to figure out
how to do everything asked below. For now, let's just let the Board
recover and slowly get some of the loose ends taken care of.
Stephen Nelson
-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso [[60]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On
Behalf Of marshallgsmith
Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2016 8:28 PM
To: [61]P6746 at aol.com; [62]asajay at asajay.com;
[63]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic
I have a couple questions Bob:
> Calling this situation "multiple dues levels" seems to be making the
issue too complex. There are some members that are opting to not have
printed magazines mailed which should make those members eligible for a
discount because of the savings.
> What is your estimate of the length of time that it would take the
board to arrange for a vote of the membership to change the bylaws to
allow for this discount?
> Who specifically made that apples-to-apples comparison you refer to?
> I agree that the editors should have the most influence on the
process. However, our editors of both publications seem to have a hard
time reporting to the members about ANY issues pertaining to the
publication's themselves. Might that change in the near future or will
radio silence be the norm here?
Marshall Smith
Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: P6746--- via DeTomaso <[64]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Date: 8/14/16 3:10 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: [65]asajay at asajay.com, [66]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic
To use a cliche, we're working on it.
Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline. However, there are
restrictions, particularly with the By-Laws as they currently stand.
There are no provisions for multiple dues levels, particularly
pertaining to how a member elects to have their club publications
delivered, etc. That will take time as any changes or amendments must
be approved by the whole membership.
The consensus seems to be that the Profiles would continue as a print
publication for all except foreign members who elect to receive it
digitally.
As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is so
expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit
cost. So as fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit
increases but not proportionately.
An apples to apples comparison was made between an online printer and
the current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference
was pennies. That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run.
As far as I am concerned, it is the editors who should have the most
influence as to how and where their product is produced. They are the
ones who must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular
basis.
Bob Reid
In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
[67]asajay at asajay.com writes:
The last I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was interested
in doing a -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for me,
it's a wait and see kind of thing. I agree, if POCA was missing out on
full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.
However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs
properly. I have more faith that the present board members will
properly investigate and sort it out for everyone.
I am on-board with electronic delivery, though I do admit it's nice to
just sit back and read a paper copy too. It's also easier to hand-off
to Sam so he can read it later. How do you really fix that?
I would think (and I don't know), that the ClubExpress membership
database might be able to include a "preference" as part of the
member's profile or details. Just as I can set an address and phone
number, if I could check a box for Electronic delivery or paper copies,
or both, and select whatever I wanted for each item (Profiles versus
Newsletter), that might be ideal.
However, I'm also familiar with quantity discounting. It very well
could be that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to print
50, or 10 (but I doubt it). I imagine those are considerations the
board will look at as well.
Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have heard (from more
than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign "because POCA
changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter content that in
essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws. For a guy that appeared
to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the by-laws (and it's
unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't feel they
applied to him.
For the record, as I understand it, POCA has changed printers -twice-
since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related to the DeRykes) got out of
the business. So the "family tie-in" previously eluded to, was not a
factor in the resignations.
Just my $1.50 (two cents adjusted for inflation) Asa Jay
Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired & Shelley Marie Spokane,
WA
******************************
[68]http://w7tsc.org/
[69]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
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Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
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list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
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To use a cliche, we're working on it.
Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline. However, there are
restrictions, particularly with the By-Laws as they currently stand.
There are no provisions for multiple dues levels,
particularly pertaining to how a member elects to have their club
publications delivered, etc. That will take time as any changes or
amendments must be approved by the whole membership.
The consensus seems to be that the Profiles would continue as a print
publication for all except foreign members who elect to receive it
digitally.
As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is so
expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit
cost. So as fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit
increases but not proportionately.
An apples to apples comparison was made between an online printer and
the current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference
was pennies. That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run.
As far as I am concerned, it is the editors who should have the most
influence as to how and where their product is produced. They are the
ones who must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular
basis.
Bob Reid
In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
[72]asajay at asajay.com writes:
The last I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was
interested
in doing a -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for
me,
it's a wait and see kind of thing. I agree, if POCA was missing out
on
full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.
However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs
properly. I have more faith that the present board members will
properly investigate and sort it out for everyone.
I am on-board with electronic delivery, though I do admit it's nice
to
just sit back and read a paper copy too. It's also easier to
hand-off
to Sam so he can read it later. How do you really fix that?
I would think (and I don't know), that the ClubExpress membership
database might be able to include a "preference" as part of the
member's
profile or details. Just as I can set an address and phone number,
if I
could check a box for Electronic delivery or paper copies, or both,
and
select whatever I wanted for each item (Profiles versus Newsletter),
that might be ideal.
However, I'm also familiar with quantity discounting. It very well
could be that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to
print
50, or 10 (but I doubt it). I imagine those are considerations the
board will look at as well.
Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have heard (from
more
than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign "because POCA
changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter content that
in
essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws. For a guy that
appeared
to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the by-laws (and
it's
unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't feel they
applied
to him.
For the record, as I understand it, POCA has changed printers
-twice-
since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related to the DeRykes) got out
of
the business. So the "family tie-in" previously eluded to, was not
a
factor in the resignations.
Just my $1.50 (two cents adjusted for inflation)
Asa Jay
Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
& Shelley Marie
Spokane, WA
******************************
[73]http://w7tsc.org/
[74]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
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------------------------------
End of DeTomaso Digest, Vol 146, Issue 20
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References
1. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
2. mailto:request at server.detomasolist.com
3. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
4. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
5. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
6. mailto:request at server.detomasolist.com
7. mailto:owner at server.detomasolist.com
8. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
9. mailto:P6746 at aol.com
10. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
11. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
12. mailto:sdxpj9k7caacwyvlamgw7uly.1471231663405 at email.android.com
13. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
14. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
15. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
16. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
17. http://w7tsc.org/
18. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
19. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
20. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
21. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
22. http://w7tsc.org/
23. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
24. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
25. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
26. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
27. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
28. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
29. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
30. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
31. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
32. http://w7tsc.org/
33. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
34. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
35. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
36. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
37. http://w7tsc.org/
38. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
39. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
40. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
41. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
42. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
43. mailto:coxmichaelt at gmail.com
44. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
45. mailto:ynAnbzepC1U9QH+A_Q at mail.gmail.com
46. mailto:edducati at mac.com
47. http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
48. http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-pantera-has-only-785-miles-to-its-name/109069/
49. mailto:edducati at mac.com
50. http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
51. http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-pantera-has
52. mailto:edducati at mac.com?
53. http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
54. http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-pantera-has-only-785-miles-to-its-name/109069/
55. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
56. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
57. mailto:P6746 at aol.com
58. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
59. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
60. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com?
61. mailto:P6746 at aol.com
62. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
63. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
64. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
65. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
66. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
67. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
68. http://w7tsc.org/
69. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
70. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
71. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
72. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
73. http://w7tsc.org/
74. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
75. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
76. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
77. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
78. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
79. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
80. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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-------------- next part --------------
Laurie,
The same young people spend the rest of the day glued to their
smart phones unaware of the physical world around them. I suspect they
also have no interest in cars unless the cars are in a video
game. They have one foot in the Matrix and would not object to living
in virtual realty if that could be arranged. I worry about the future
of mankind.
Ken
__________________________________________________________________
From: Laurie Ferrari via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
To: laurieferrari at aol.com; detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Sent: Monday, August 15, 2016 10:10 AM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Sam
p.s. In my experience with young people of the day, they are more
adapted to and capable of reading electronic material than most
adults
I know. Many classrooms now use Ipads.
Laurie
I am on-board with electronic delivery,? though I do admit it's
nice
to
just sit back and read a paper copy? too.? It's also easier to
hand-off
to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do you really fix that?
-----Original Message-----
From: laurieferrari <[1]laurieferrari at aol.com>
To: detomaso <[2]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2016 9:57 am
Subject: Re: resignations
Dear AJ,
I have always respected you and your opinions but in this case you
are
incorrect as far as the resignation of Jack DeRyke. I was on the
Board
of Directors' conference call where he was asked to stay and he
adamantly refused to if the printer changed. Jack's resignation was
specifically because of the change in printer! You can go research
that phone conference call, or the minutes of the meeting, as the
facts
are saved. As far as Mike Haney's resignation, that was done by his
Mrs. for their reasons which most likely were aligned with their
parents.
Laurie
In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,?
[1][3]asajay at asajay.com writes:
The last? I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was
interested
in doing a? -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for
me,
it's a wait and? see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing
out on
full-color? and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is
amiss.?
However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs
properly.? I? have more faith that the present board members will
properly investigate? and sort it out for everyone.
I am on-board with electronic delivery,? though I do admit it's
nice
to
just sit back and read a paper copy? too.? It's also easier to
hand-off
to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do you really fix that?
I would think (and I don't? know), that the ClubExpress membership
database might be able to include a? "preference" as part of the
member's
profile or details.? Just as I? can set an address and phone
number,
if I
could check a box for Electronic? delivery or paper copies, or
both,
and
select whatever I wanted for each? item (Profiles versus
Newsletter),
that might be ideal.
However,? I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very
well
could be? that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to
print
50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations
the
board will? look at as well.
Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have? heard (from
more
than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign? "because POCA
changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter? content
that
in
essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For? a guy that
appeared
to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the? by-laws (and
it's
unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't? feel they
applied
to him.
For the record, as I understand it, POCA? has changed printers
-twice-
since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related? to the DeRykes) got
out
of
the business.? So the "family tie-in"? previously eluded to, was
not
a
factor in the resignations.
Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation)
Asa? Jay
Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
&? Shelley? Mar
-----Original Message-----
From: detomaso-request
<detomaso-[2][4]request at server.detomasolist.com>
To: detomaso <[3][5]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2016 9:00 am
Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 146, Issue 20
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Daily Detomaso List Digest
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic (marshallgsmith)
2. Re: De Tomaso Pantera GTS on eBay! again $250K!! (Michael Cox)
3. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic (Stephen)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 20:27:43 -0700
From: marshallgsmith <[8][10]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
To: [9][11]P6746 at aol.com, [10][12]asajay at asajay.com,
[11][13]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic
Message-ID:
<[12][14]sdxpj9k7caacwyvlamgw7uly.1471231663405 at email.android.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
I have a couple questions Bob:
> Calling this situation "multiple dues levels" seems to be making
the
issue too complex. There are some members that are opting to not have
printed magazines mailed which should make those members eligible for
a
discount because of the savings.
> What is your estimate of the length of time that it would take the
board to arrange for a vote of the membership to change the bylaws to
allow for this discount?
> Who specifically made that apples-to-apples comparison you refer
to?
> I agree that the editors should have the most influence ?on the
process. ?However, our editors of both publications seem to have a
hard
time reporting to the members about ANY issues pertaining to the
publication's themselves. Might that change in the near future or
will
radio silence be the norm here?
Marshall Smith
Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: P6746--- via DeTomaso
<[13][15]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Date: 8/14/16 3:10 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: [14][16]asajay at asajay.com,
[15][17]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic
To use a cliche, we're working on it.?
Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline.?? However, there
are
restrictions, particularly with the By-Laws as they currently?
stand.?
There
are no provisions for multiple dues levels,? particularly pertaining
to
how a
member elects to have their club? publications delivered, etc.? That
will
take time as any changes or? amendments must be approved by the whole
membership.
The consensus seems to be that the Profiles would? continue as a
print
publication for all except foreign members who elect to? receive it
digitally.?
As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is? so
expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit?
cost.? So as
fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit? increases
but
not
proportionately.??
An apples to apples comparison was made between an online? printer
and
the
current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference? was
pennies.? That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run.?
As far as I am concerned, it is the editors who should have? the most
influence as to how and where their product is produced.? They are?
the
ones who
must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular? basis.
Bob Reid?
In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,?
[16][18]asajay at asajay.com writes:
The last? I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was
interested
in doing a? -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for
me,
it's a wait and? see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing out
on
full-color? and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.?
However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs
properly.? I? have more faith that the present board members will
properly investigate? and sort it out for everyone.
I am on-board with electronic delivery,? though I do admit it's nice
to
just sit back and read a paper copy? too.? It's also easier to
hand-off
to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do you really fix that?
I would think (and I don't? know), that the ClubExpress membership
database might be able to include a? "preference" as part of the
member's
profile or details.? Just as I? can set an address and phone number,
if
I
could check a box for Electronic? delivery or paper copies, or both,
and
select whatever I wanted for each? item (Profiles versus Newsletter),
that might be ideal.
However,? I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well
could be? that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to
print
50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the
board will? look at as well.
Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have? heard (from
more
than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign? "because POCA
changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter? content that
in
essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For? a guy that
appeared
to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the? by-laws (and
it's
unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't? feel they
applied
to him.
For the record, as I understand it, POCA? has changed printers
-twice-
since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related? to the DeRykes) got out
of
the business.? So the "family tie-in"? previously eluded to, was not
a
factor in the resignations.
Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation)
Asa? Jay
Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
&? Shelley? Marie
Spokane,? WA
******************************
[17][19]http://w7tsc.org/
[18][20]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
_______________________________________________
Detomaso? Email List is not managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5? Megabytes
DeTomaso mailing? list
[19][21]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
[20][22]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To? manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
etc.)
use
the? links above.
Members who post to this list grant license to the list to? forward
any
message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the?
list. They
also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or?
approve
the
archiving of list? messages.
?? To use a cliche, we're working on it.
?? Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline.? However,
there
are
?? restrictions, particularly with the By-Laws as they currently
stand.
?? There are no provisions for multiple dues levels,
?? particularly pertaining to how a member elects to have their club
?? publications delivered, etc.? That will take time as any changes
or
?? amendments must be approved by the whole membership.
?? The consensus seems to be that the Profiles would continue as a
print
?? publication for all except foreign members who elect to receive it
?? digitally.
?? As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is so
?? expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per
unit
?? cost.? So as fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per
unit
?? increases but not proportionately.
?? An apples to apples comparison was made between an online printer
and
?? the current printer for both printing and mailing and the
difference
?? was pennies.? That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run.
?? As far as I am concerned, it is the editors who should have the
most
?? influence as to how and where their product is produced.? They are
the
?? ones who must work with the printers and mailing houses on a
regular
?? basis.
?? Bob Reid
?? In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
?? [21][23]asajay at asajay.com writes:
???? The last I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was
???? interested
???? in doing a -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so
for
???? me,
???? it's a wait and see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing
out
???? on
???? full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is
amiss.
???? However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs
???? properly.? I have more faith that the present board members will
???? properly investigate and sort it out for everyone.
???? I am on-board with electronic delivery, though I do admit it's
nice
???? to
???? just sit back and read a paper copy too.? It's also easier to
???? hand-off
???? to Sam so he can read it later.? How do you really fix that?
???? I would think (and I don't know), that the ClubExpress
membership
???? database might be able to include a "preference" as part of the
???? member's
???? profile or details.? Just as I can set an address and phone
number,
???? if I
???? could check a box for Electronic delivery or paper copies, or
both,
???? and
???? select whatever I wanted for each item (Profiles versus
Newsletter),
???? that might be ideal.
???? However, I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very
well
???? could be that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does
to
???? print
???? 50, or 10 (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations
the
???? board will look at as well.
???? Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have heard
(from
???? more
???? than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign "because
POCA
???? changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter content
that
???? in
???? essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For a guy that
???? appeared
???? to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the by-laws (and
???? it's
???? unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't feel they
???? applied
???? to him.
???? For the record, as I understand it, POCA has changed printers
???? -twice-
???? since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related to the DeRykes) got
out
???? of
???? the business.? So the "family tie-in" previously eluded to, was
not
???? a
???? factor in the resignations.
???? Just my $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation)
???? Asa? Jay
???? Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
???? &? Shelley Marie
???? Spokane, WA
???? ******************************
???? [22][24]http://w7tsc.org/
???? [23][25]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
???? _______________________________________________
???? Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
???? Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
???? DeTomaso mailing list
???? [24][26]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
???? [25][27]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
???? To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
???? etc.) use the links above.
???? Members who post to this list grant license to the list to
forward
???? any message posted here to all past, current, or future members
of
???? the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain
an
???? archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
DeTomaso mailing list
[26][28]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
[27][29]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
use the links above.
Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
any
message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
archive
or approve the archiving of list messages.
-------------- next part --------------
I have a couple questions Bob:
> Calling this situation "multiple dues levels" seems to be making
the
issue too complex. There are some members that are opting to not have
printed magazines mailed which should make those members eligible for
a
discount because of the savings.
> What is your estimate of the length of time that it would take the
board to arrange for a vote of the membership to change the bylaws to
allow for this discount?
> Who specifically made that apples-to-apples comparison you refer
to?
> I agree that the editors should have the most influence on the
process. However, our editors of both publications seem to have a
hard
time reporting to the members about ANY issues pertaining to the
publication's themselves. Might that change in the near future or
will
radio silence be the norm here?
Marshall Smith
Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: P6746--- via DeTomaso
<[28][30]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Date: 8/14/16 3:10 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: [29][31]asajay at asajay.com,
[30][32]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic
To use a cliche, we're working on it.
Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline. However, there
are
restrictions, particularly with the By-Laws as they currently stand.
There
are no provisions for multiple dues levels, particularly pertaining
to
how a
member elects to have their club publications delivered, etc. That
will
take time as any changes or amendments must be approved by the whole
membership.
The consensus seems to be that the Profiles would continue as a print
publication for all except foreign members who elect to receive it
digitally.
As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is so
expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit
cost. So as
fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit increases but
not
proportionately.
An apples to apples comparison was made between an online printer and
the
current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference was
pennies. That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run.
As far as I am concerned, it is the editors who should have the most
influence as to how and where their product is produced. They are the
ones who
must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular basis.
Bob Reid
In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
[31][33]asajay at asajay.com writes:
The last I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was
interested
in doing a -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for me,
it's a wait and see kind of thing. I agree, if POCA was missing out
on
full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.
However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs
properly. I have more faith that the present board members will
properly investigate and sort it out for everyone.
I am on-board with electronic delivery, though I do admit it's nice
to
just sit back and read a paper copy too. It's also easier to hand-off
to Sam so he can read it later. How do you really fix that?
I would think (and I don't know), that the ClubExpress membership
database might be able to include a "preference" as part of the
member's
profile or details. Just as I can set an address and phone number, if
I
could check a box for Electronic delivery or paper copies, or both,
and
select whatever I wanted for each item (Profiles versus Newsletter),
that might be ideal.
However, I'm also familiar with quantity discounting. It very well
could be that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to
print
50, or 10 (but I doubt it). I imagine those are considerations the
board will look at as well.
Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have heard (from
more
than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign "because POCA
changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter content that
in
essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws. For a guy that
appeared
to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the by-laws (and it's
unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't feel they
applied
to him.
For the record, as I understand it, POCA has changed printers -twice-
since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related to the DeRykes) got out
of
the business. So the "family tie-in" previously eluded to, was not a
factor in the resignations.
Just my $1.50 (two cents adjusted for inflation)
Asa Jay
Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
& Shelley Marie
Spokane, WA
******************************
[32][34]http://w7tsc.org/
[33][35]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
DeTomaso mailing list
[34][36]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
[35][37]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
use
the links above.
Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
any
message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
list. They
also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or
approve
the
archiving of list messages.
To use a cliche, we're working on it.
Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline. However, there
are
restrictions, particularly with the By-Laws as they currently stand.
There are no provisions for multiple dues levels,
particularly pertaining to how a member elects to have their club
publications delivered, etc. That will take time as any changes or
amendments must be approved by the whole membership.
The consensus seems to be that the Profiles would continue as a
print
publication for all except foreign members who elect to receive it
digitally.
As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is so
expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit
cost. So as fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit
increases but not proportionately.
An apples to apples comparison was made between an online printer
and
the current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference
was pennies. That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run.
As far as I am concerned, it is the editors who should have the most
influence as to how and where their product is produced. They are
the
ones who must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular
basis.
Bob Reid
In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
[36][38]asajay at asajay.com writes:
The last I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was
interested
in doing a -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for
me,
it's a wait and see kind of thing. I agree, if POCA was missing
out
on
full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.
However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs
properly. I have more faith that the present board members will
properly investigate and sort it out for everyone.
I am on-board with electronic delivery, though I do admit it's
nice
to
just sit back and read a paper copy too. It's also easier to
hand-off
to Sam so he can read it later. How do you really fix that?
I would think (and I don't know), that the ClubExpress membership
database might be able to include a "preference" as part of the
member's
profile or details. Just as I can set an address and phone
number,
if I
could check a box for Electronic delivery or paper copies, or
both,
and
select whatever I wanted for each item (Profiles versus
Newsletter),
that might be ideal.
However, I'm also familiar with quantity discounting. It very
well
could be that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to
print
50, or 10 (but I doubt it). I imagine those are considerations
the
board will look at as well.
Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have heard (from
more
than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign "because POCA
changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter content
that
in
essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws. For a guy that
appeared
to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the by-laws (and
it's
unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't feel they
applied
to him.
For the record, as I understand it, POCA has changed printers
-twice-
since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related to the DeRykes) got
out
of
the business. So the "family tie-in" previously eluded to, was
not
a
factor in the resignations.
Just my $1.50 (two cents adjusted for inflation)
Asa Jay
Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
& Shelley Marie
Spokane, WA
******************************
[37][39]http://w7tsc.org/
[38][40]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
DeTomaso mailing list
[39][41]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
[40][42]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
etc.) use the links above.
Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
DeTomaso mailing list
[41][43]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
[42][44]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
use the links above.
Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
any
message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
archive
or approve the archiving of list messages.
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 20:56:45 -0700
From: Michael Cox <[43][45]coxmichaelt at gmail.com>
To: [44][46]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] De Tomaso Pantera GTS on eBay! again $250K!!
Message-ID:
<CAMPkPf3HQcqg5vLxgjpJP=7z=UBbrVs=[45]ynAnbzepC1U9QH+[47]A_Q at mail.gmail
.com
>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> From: Ed Mendez <[46][48]edducati at mac.com>
> Subject: [DeTomaso] De Tomaso Pantera GTS on eBay! again $250K!!
>
> Hi! I found this on eBay and thought you might like it! Check it
out
now! De Tomaso:
> Other Pantera GTS [47][49]http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
These guys found that ad too. :^)
[48][50]http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-panter
a-ha
s-only-785-miles-to-its-name/109069/
--michael cox
-------------- next part --------------
> From: Ed Mendez <[1][49][51]edducati at mac.com>
> Subject: [DeTomaso] De Tomaso Pantera GTS on eBay! again $250K!!
>A
> Hi! I found this on eBay and thought you might like it! Check it
out
now!A De Tomaso:
> Other Pantera GTSA [2][50][52]http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
These guys found that ad too. A :^)
[3][51][53]http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-pan
tera
-has
-only-785-miles-to-its-name/109069/
A A --michael cox
References
1. [52]mailto:[54]edducati at mac.com
2. [53][55]http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
3.
[54][56]http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-panter
a-ha
s-only-785-miles-to-its-name/109069/
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 08:05:15 -0700
From: "Stephen" <[55][57]steve at snclocks.com>
To: "'marshallgsmith'" <[56][58]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>,
<[57][59]P6746 at aol.com>, <[58][60]asajay at asajay.com>,
<[59][61]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic
Message-ID: <004701d1f706$6ead4a50$4c07def0$@snclocks.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Having been on Boards before - I'd suggest the current Board deserves
some time to catch their breath and recover from the situation they
have recently been through. It is amazing how much time something
like
this takes - and I suspect everyone on the Board would like to catch
up
on all the things they have let slide while coping with the removal
of
a president and all the animosity and e-mails the whole mess
generated.
It's so easy to ask questions - but takes a lot more time to figure
out
how to do everything asked below. For now, let's just let the Board
recover and slowly get some of the loose ends taken care of.
Stephen Nelson
-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso
[[60]mailto:[62]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On
Behalf Of marshallgsmith
Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2016 8:28 PM
To: [61][63]P6746 at aol.com; [62][64]asajay at asajay.com;
[63][65]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic
I have a couple questions Bob:
> Calling this situation "multiple dues levels" seems to be making
the
issue too complex. There are some members that are opting to not have
printed magazines mailed which should make those members eligible for
a
discount because of the savings.
> What is your estimate of the length of time that it would take the
board to arrange for a vote of the membership to change the bylaws to
allow for this discount?
> Who specifically made that apples-to-apples comparison you refer
to?
> I agree that the editors should have the most influence on the
process. However, our editors of both publications seem to have a
hard
time reporting to the members about ANY issues pertaining to the
publication's themselves. Might that change in the near future or
will
radio silence be the norm here?
Marshall Smith
Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: P6746--- via DeTomaso
<[64][66]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Date: 8/14/16 3:10 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: [65][67]asajay at asajay.com,
[66][68]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic
To use a cliche, we're working on it.
Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline. However, there
are
restrictions, particularly with the By-Laws as they currently stand.
There are no provisions for multiple dues levels, particularly
pertaining to how a member elects to have their club publications
delivered, etc. That will take time as any changes or amendments must
be approved by the whole membership.
The consensus seems to be that the Profiles would continue as a print
publication for all except foreign members who elect to receive it
digitally.
As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is so
expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit
cost. So as fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit
increases but not proportionately.
An apples to apples comparison was made between an online printer and
the current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference
was pennies. That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run.
As far as I am concerned, it is the editors who should have the most
influence as to how and where their product is produced. They are the
ones who must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular
basis.
Bob Reid
In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
[67][69]asajay at asajay.com writes:
The last I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was
interested
in doing a -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for me,
it's a wait and see kind of thing. I agree, if POCA was missing out
on
full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.
However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs
properly. I have more faith that the present board members will
properly investigate and sort it out for everyone.
I am on-board with electronic delivery, though I do admit it's nice
to
just sit back and read a paper copy too. It's also easier to hand-off
to Sam so he can read it later. How do you really fix that?
I would think (and I don't know), that the ClubExpress membership
database might be able to include a "preference" as part of the
member's profile or details. Just as I can set an address and phone
number, if I could check a box for Electronic delivery or paper
copies,
or both, and select whatever I wanted for each item (Profiles versus
Newsletter), that might be ideal.
However, I'm also familiar with quantity discounting. It very well
could be that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to
print
50, or 10 (but I doubt it). I imagine those are considerations the
board will look at as well.
Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have heard (from
more
than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign "because POCA
changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter content that
in
essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws. For a guy that
appeared
to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the by-laws (and it's
unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't feel they
applied to him.
For the record, as I understand it, POCA has changed printers -twice-
since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related to the DeRykes) got out
of
the business. So the "family tie-in" previously eluded to, was not a
factor in the resignations.
Just my $1.50 (two cents adjusted for inflation) Asa Jay
Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired & Shelley Marie
Spokane,
WA
******************************
[68][70]http://w7tsc.org/
[69][71]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not
exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list
[70][72]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
[71][73]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
use the links above.
Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
any
message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
archive
or approve the archiving of list messages.
To use a cliche, we're working on it.
Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline. However, there
are
restrictions, particularly with the By-Laws as they currently stand.
There are no provisions for multiple dues levels,
particularly pertaining to how a member elects to have their club
publications delivered, etc. That will take time as any changes or
amendments must be approved by the whole membership.
The consensus seems to be that the Profiles would continue as a print
publication for all except foreign members who elect to receive it
digitally.
As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is so
expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit
cost. So as fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit
increases but not proportionately.
An apples to apples comparison was made between an online printer and
the current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference
was pennies. That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run.
As far as I am concerned, it is the editors who should have the most
influence as to how and where their product is produced. They are the
ones who must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular
basis.
Bob Reid
In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
[72][74]asajay at asajay.com writes:
The last I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was
interested
in doing a -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for
me,
it's a wait and see kind of thing. I agree, if POCA was missing out
on
full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.
However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs
properly. I have more faith that the present board members will
properly investigate and sort it out for everyone.
I am on-board with electronic delivery, though I do admit it's nice
to
just sit back and read a paper copy too. It's also easier to
hand-off
to Sam so he can read it later. How do you really fix that?
I would think (and I don't know), that the ClubExpress membership
database might be able to include a "preference" as part of the
member's
profile or details. Just as I can set an address and phone number,
if I
could check a box for Electronic delivery or paper copies, or both,
and
select whatever I wanted for each item (Profiles versus Newsletter),
that might be ideal.
However, I'm also familiar with quantity discounting. It very well
could be that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to
print
50, or 10 (but I doubt it). I imagine those are considerations the
board will look at as well.
Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have heard (from
more
than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign "because POCA
changed printers;" it was over "control" of newsletter content that
in
essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws. For a guy that
appeared
to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the by-laws (and
it's
unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't feel they
applied
to him.
For the record, as I understand it, POCA has changed printers
-twice-
since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related to the DeRykes) got out
of
the business. So the "family tie-in" previously eluded to, was not
a
factor in the resignations.
Just my $1.50 (two cents adjusted for inflation)
Asa Jay
Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
& Shelley Marie
Spokane, WA
******************************
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End of DeTomaso Digest, Vol 146, Issue 20
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