[DeTomaso] resignations
laurieferrari at aol.com
laurieferrari at aol.com
Mon Aug 15 13:36:33 EDT 2016
Yes of course.... I think you now qualify for best sense of humor of the year along with Julian.
I have a great solution to the paper versus print dilemma. We raise the dues to $500.00 per year. We elect to go all digital and included in this price is a shiney ipad for everyone.
I will now wait for someone to "second" my proposal.
Waiting, waiting, waiting................................................
Lynn (offering smartass solutions where none were requested)
-----Original Message-----
From: Lynn Wall <lwall67 at gmail.com>
To: 'marshall smith' <marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>; detomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>; laurieferrari <laurieferrari at aol.com>
Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2016 10:21 am
Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] resignations
I have a great solution to the paper versus print dilemma. We raise the dues to $500.00 per year. We elect to go all digital and included in this price is a shiney ipad for everyone.
I will now wait for someone to "second" my proposal.
Waiting, waiting, waiting................................................
Lynn (offering smartass solutions where none were requested)
-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of marshall smith
Sent: Monday, August 15, 2016 11:11 AM
To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com; laurieferrari at aol.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations
I find it funny that three months after the Fun Rally we are now hearing that Shortt's bid for printing did not include shipping. Shortt is a lot of things but a mistake like this...?
I was listening in on this meeting also and I know what I heard.
Apparently, the board convinced 'some' members of this so-called discrepancy month's ago. Why wasn't this information, if it exists, relayed to ALL of us in a timely manner?
Marshall
--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 8/15/16, Laurie Ferrari via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations
To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Date: Monday, August 15, 2016, 9:57 AM
Dear AJ,
I have always respected you and your opinions but in this case you are
incorrect as far as the resignation of Jack DeRyke. I was on the Board
of Directors' conference call where he was asked to stay and he
adamantly refused to if the printer
changed. Jack's resignation was
specifically because of the change in printer! You can go research
that phone conference call, or the minutes of the meeting, as the facts
are saved. As far as Mike Haney's
resignation, that was done by his
Mrs. for their reasons which most likely were aligned with their
parents.
Laurie
In a message dated 8/13/2016
9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,?
[1]asajay at asajay.com
writes:
The last? I heard (and I may have
heard wrong), the board was
interested
in doing a? -real- accounting
comparison of printing costs, so for
me,
it's a wait and? see kind of
thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing
out on
full-color? and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.?
However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs
properly.? I? have more faith that the present board members will
properly investigate? and sort it
out for everyone.
I am on-board with electronic
delivery,? though I do admit it's nice
to
just sit back and read a paper
copy? too.? It's also easier to
hand-off
to Sam so he can read it? later.?
How do you really fix that?
I would think (and I don't? know), that the ClubExpress membership
database might be able to include
a? "preference" as part of the
member's
profile or details.? Just as I? can set an address and phone number,
if I
could check a box for Electronic?
delivery or paper copies, or both,
and
select whatever I wanted for each?
item (Profiles versus
Newsletter),
that might be ideal.
However,? I'm also familiar with
quantity discounting.? It very well
could be? that it costs the same
amount to print 500 as it does to
print
50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I
imagine those are considerations the
board will? look at as well.
Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have? heard (from
more
than one person), that Jack and
Mike did not resign? "because POCA
changed printers;" it was over
"control" of newsletter? content that
in
essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For? a guy that
appeared
to try very hard to get everyone
else to follow the? by-laws (and
it's
unwritten code of ethics), Mr.
Shortt certainly didn't? feel they
applied
to him.
For the record, as I understand it, POCA? has changed printers
-twice-
since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related? to the DeRykes) got out
of
the business.? So the "family
tie-in"? previously eluded to, was not
a
factor in the resignations.
Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation)
Asa? Jay
Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt,
USAFR, Retired
&? Shelley? Mar
-----Original Message-----
From: detomaso-request <detomaso-request at server.detomasolist.com>
To: detomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2016 9:00 am
Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 146, Issue
20
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Daily Detomaso List Digest
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs.
electronic (marshallgsmith)
2. Re: De Tomaso Pantera GTS on eBay!
again $250K!! (Michael Cox)
3. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs.
electronic (Stephen)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 20:27:43 -0700
From: marshallgsmith <[6]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
To: [7]P6746 at aol.com, [8]asajay at asajay.com,
[9]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic
Message-ID:
<[10]sdxpj9k7caacwyvlamgw7uly.1471231663405 at email.android.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
I have a couple questions Bob:
> Calling this situation "multiple dues levels" seems to be making the
issue too complex. There are some members that are opting to not have
printed magazines mailed which should make those members eligible for a
discount because of the savings.
> What is your estimate of the length of time that it would take the
board to arrange for a vote of the
membership to change the bylaws to
allow for this discount?
> Who specifically made that
apples-to-apples comparison you refer to?
> I agree that the editors should have the most influence ?on the
process. ?However, our editors of both publications seem to have a hard
time reporting to the members about ANY issues pertaining to the
publication's themselves. Might that change in the near future or will
radio silence be the norm here?
Marshall Smith
Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: P6746--- via DeTomaso <[11]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Date: 8/14/16 3:10 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: [12]asajay at asajay.com,
[13]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic
To use a cliche, we're working on it.?
Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline.?? However, there
are
restrictions, particularly with the
By-Laws as they currently? stand.?
There
are no provisions for multiple dues
levels,? particularly pertaining to
how a
member elects to have their club?
publications delivered, etc.? That
will
take time as any changes or? amendments must be approved by the whole
membership.
The consensus seems to be that the
Profiles would? continue as a print
publication for all except foreign members who elect to? receive it
digitally.?
As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is? so
expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit?
cost.? So as
fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit? increases but
not
proportionately.??
An apples to apples comparison was made between an online? printer and
the
current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference? was
pennies.? That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run.?
As far as I am concerned, it is the
editors who should have? the most
influence as to how and where their
product is produced.? They are? the
ones who
must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular? basis.
Bob Reid?
In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M.
Eastern Daylight Time,?
[14]asajay at asajay.com
writes:
The last? I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was
interested
in doing a? -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for me,
it's a wait and? see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing out
on
full-color? and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.?
However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs
properly.? I? have more faith that the present board members will
properly investigate? and sort it out for everyone.
I am on-board with electronic delivery,?
though I do admit it's nice to
just sit back and read a paper copy? too.?
It's also easier to hand-off
to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do you really fix that?
I would think (and I don't? know), that the ClubExpress membership
database might be able to include a?
"preference" as part of the
member's
profile or details.? Just as I? can set an address and phone number, if
I
could check a box for Electronic? delivery or paper copies, or both,
and
select whatever I wanted for each? item (Profiles versus Newsletter),
that might be ideal.
However,? I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well
could be? that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to
print
50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the
board will? look at as well.
Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have? heard (from
more
than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign? "because POCA
changed printers;" it was over "control"
of newsletter? content that in
essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For? a guy that
appeared
to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the? by-laws (and it's
unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't? feel they
applied
to him.
For the record, as I understand it, POCA?
has changed printers -twice-
since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were
related? to the DeRykes) got out of
the business.? So the "family tie-in"?
previously eluded to, was not a
factor in the resignations.
Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted for
inflation)
Asa? Jay
Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
&? Shelley? Marie
Spokane,? WA
******************************
[15]http://w7tsc.org
[16]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
_______________________________________________
Detomaso? Email List is not managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5?
Megabytes
DeTomaso mailing? list
[17]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
[18]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To? manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
use
the? links above.
Members who post to this list grant
license to the list to? forward any
message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the?
list. They
also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or? approve
the
archiving of list? messages.
?? To use a cliche, we're working on it.
?? Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline.? However, there
are
?? restrictions, particularly with the By-Laws as they currently stand.
?? There are no provisions for multiple dues levels,
?? particularly pertaining to how a member elects to have their club
?? publications delivered, etc.? That will take time as any changes or
?? amendments must be approved by the whole membership.
?? The consensus seems to be that the Profiles would continue as a
print
?? publication for all except foreign members who elect to receive it
?? digitally.
?? As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is so
?? expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit
?? cost.? So as fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit
?? increases but not proportionately.
?? An apples to apples comparison was made between an online printer
and
?? the current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference
?? was pennies.? That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run.
?? As far as I am concerned, it is the editors who should have the most
?? influence as to how and where their product is produced.? They are
the
?? ones who must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular
?? basis.
?? Bob Reid
?? In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
?? [19]asajay at asajay.com
writes:
???? The last I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was
???? interested
???? in doing a -real- accounting
comparison of printing costs, so for
???? me,
???? it's a wait and see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing
out
???? on
???? full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.
???? However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs
???? properly.? I have more faith that the present board members will
???? properly investigate and sort it out for everyone.
???? I am on-board with electronic
delivery, though I do admit it's
nice
???? to
???? just sit back and read a paper copy too.? It's also easier to
???? hand-off
???? to Sam so he can read it later.? How do you really fix that?
???? I would think (and I don't know), that the ClubExpress membership
???? database might be able to include a "preference" as part of the
???? member's
???? profile or details.? Just as I can set an address and phone
number,
???? if I
???? could check a box for Electronic delivery or paper copies, or
both,
???? and
???? select whatever I wanted for each item (Profiles versus
Newsletter),
???? that might be ideal.
???? However, I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very
well
???? could be that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to
???? print
???? 50, or 10 (but I doubt it).? I
imagine those are considerations
the
???? board will look at as well.
???? Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have heard (from
???? more
???? than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign "because POCA
???? changed printers;" it was over
"control" of newsletter content
that
???? in
???? essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For a guy that
???? appeared
???? to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the by-laws (and
???? it's
???? unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't feel they
???? applied
???? to him.
???? For the record, as I understand it, POCA has changed printers
???? -twice-
???? since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related to the DeRykes) got
out
???? of
???? the business.? So the "family tie-in"
previously eluded to, was
not
???? a
???? factor in the resignations.
???? Just my $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation)
???? Asa? Jay
???? Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
???? &? Shelley Marie
???? Spokane, WA
???? ******************************
???? [20]http://w7tsc.org
???? [21]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
????
_______________________________________________
???? Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
???? Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
???? DeTomaso mailing list
???? [22]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
???? [23]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
???? To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
???? etc.) use the links above.
???? Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
???? any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
???? the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
???? archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
Megabytes
DeTomaso mailing list
[24]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
[25]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
use the links above.
Members who post to this list grant
license to the list to forward any
message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
or approve the archiving of list
messages.
-------------- next part --------------
I have a couple questions Bob:
> Calling this situation "multiple dues levels" seems to be making the
issue too complex. There are some members that are opting to not have
printed magazines mailed which should make those members eligible for a
discount because of the savings.
> What is your estimate of the length of time that it would take the
board to arrange for a vote of the
membership to change the bylaws to
allow for this discount?
> Who specifically made that
apples-to-apples comparison you refer to?
> I agree that the editors should have the most influence on the
process. However, our editors of both publications seem to have a hard
time reporting to the members about ANY issues pertaining to the
publication's themselves. Might that change in the near future or will
radio silence be the norm here?
Marshall Smith
Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: P6746--- via DeTomaso <[26]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Date: 8/14/16 3:10 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: [27]asajay at asajay.com,
[28]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic
To use a cliche, we're working on it.
Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline. However, there
are
restrictions, particularly with the
By-Laws as they currently stand.
There
are no provisions for multiple dues
levels, particularly pertaining to
how a
member elects to have their club
publications delivered, etc. That
will
take time as any changes or amendments must be approved by the whole
membership.
The consensus seems to be that the
Profiles would continue as a print
publication for all except foreign members who elect to receive it
digitally.
As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is so
expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit
cost. So as
fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit increases but
not
proportionately.
An apples to apples comparison was made between an online printer and
the
current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference was
pennies. That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run.
As far as I am concerned, it is the
editors who should have the most
influence as to how and where their
product is produced. They are the
ones who
must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular basis.
Bob Reid
In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M.
Eastern Daylight Time,
[29]asajay at asajay.com
writes:
The last I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was
interested
in doing a -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for me,
it's a wait and see kind of thing. I agree, if POCA was missing out
on
full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.
However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs
properly. I have more faith that the present board members will
properly investigate and sort it out for everyone.
I am on-board with electronic delivery, though I do admit it's nice to
just sit back and read a paper copy too.
It's also easier to hand-off
to Sam so he can read it later. How do you really fix that?
I would think (and I don't know), that the ClubExpress membership
database might be able to include a
"preference" as part of the
member's
profile or details. Just as I can set an address and phone number, if
I
could check a box for Electronic delivery or paper copies, or both,
and
select whatever I wanted for each item (Profiles versus Newsletter),
that might be ideal.
However, I'm also familiar with quantity discounting. It very well
could be that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to
print
50, or 10 (but I doubt it). I imagine those are considerations the
board will look at as well.
Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have heard (from
more
than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign "because POCA
changed printers;" it was over "control"
of newsletter content that in
essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws. For a guy that
appeared
to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the by-laws (and it's
unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't feel they
applied
to him.
For the record, as I understand it, POCA has changed printers -twice-
since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were
related to the DeRykes) got out of
the business. So the "family tie-in"
previously eluded to, was not a
factor in the resignations.
Just my $1.50 (two cents adjusted for
inflation)
Asa Jay
Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
& Shelley Marie
Spokane, WA
******************************
[30]http://w7tsc.org
[31]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
Megabytes
DeTomaso mailing list
[32]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
[33]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
use
the links above.
Members who post to this list grant
license to the list to forward any
message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
list. They
also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve
the
archiving of list messages.
To use a cliche, we're working on it.
Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline. However, there
are
restrictions, particularly with the
By-Laws as they currently stand.
There are no provisions for multiple dues levels,
particularly pertaining to how a member elects to have their club
publications delivered, etc. That will take time as any changes or
amendments must be approved by the whole membership.
The consensus seems to be that the
Profiles would continue as a
print
publication for all except foreign members who elect to receive it
digitally.
As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is so
expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit
cost. So as fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit
increases but not proportionately.
An apples to apples comparison was made between an online printer
and
the current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference
was pennies. That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run.
As far as I am concerned, it is the
editors who should have the most
influence as to how and where their
product is produced. They are
the
ones who must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular
basis.
Bob Reid
In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M.
Eastern Daylight Time,
[34]asajay at asajay.com
writes:
The last I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was
interested
in doing a -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for
me,
it's a wait and see kind of thing. I agree, if POCA was missing
out
on
full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.
However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs
properly. I have more faith that the present board members will
properly investigate and sort it out for everyone.
I am on-board with electronic delivery, though I do admit it's
nice
to
just sit back and read a paper copy too.
It's also easier to
hand-off
to Sam so he can read it later. How do you really fix that?
I would think (and I don't know), that the ClubExpress membership
database might be able to include a
"preference" as part of the
member's
profile or details. Just as I can set an address and phone
number,
if I
could check a box for Electronic delivery or paper copies, or
both,
and
select whatever I wanted for each item (Profiles versus
Newsletter),
that might be ideal.
However, I'm also familiar with quantity discounting. It very
well
could be that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to
print
50, or 10 (but I doubt it). I imagine those are considerations
the
board will look at as well.
Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have heard (from
more
than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign "because POCA
changed printers;" it was over "control"
of newsletter content
that
in
essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws. For a guy that
appeared
to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the by-laws (and
it's
unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't feel they
applied
to him.
For the record, as I understand it, POCA has changed printers
-twice-
since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were
related to the DeRykes) got
out
of
the business. So the "family tie-in"
previously eluded to, was
not
a
factor in the resignations.
Just my $1.50 (two cents adjusted for
inflation)
Asa Jay
Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
& Shelley Marie
Spokane, WA
******************************
[35]http://w7tsc.org
[36]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
Megabytes
DeTomaso mailing list
[37]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
[38]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
etc.) use the links above.
Members who post to this list grant
license to the list to forward
any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
Megabytes
DeTomaso mailing list
[39]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
[40]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
use the links above.
Members who post to this list grant
license to the list to forward any
message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
or approve the archiving of list
messages.
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 20:56:45 -0700
From: Michael Cox <[41]coxmichaelt at gmail.com>
To: [42]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] De Tomaso Pantera GTS on eBay! again $250K!!
Message-ID:
<CAMPkPf3HQcqg5vLxgjpJP=7z=UBbrVs=[43]ynAnbzepC1U9QH+A_Q at mail.gmail.com
>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> From: Ed Mendez <[44]edducati at mac.com>
> Subject: [DeTomaso] De Tomaso Pantera GTS on eBay! again $250K!!
>
> Hi! I found this on eBay and thought you might like it! Check it out
now! De Tomaso:
> Other Pantera GTS [45]http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
These guys found that ad too. :^)
[46]http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-pantera-ha
s-only-785-miles-to-its-name/109069/
--michael cox
-------------- next part --------------
> From: Ed Mendez <[1][47]edducati at mac.com>
> Subject: [DeTomaso] De Tomaso Pantera GTS on eBay! again $250K!!
>A
> Hi! I found this on eBay and thought you might like it! Check it out
now!A De Tomaso:
> Other Pantera GTSA [2][48]http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
These guys found that ad too. A :^)
[3][49]http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-pantera
-has
-only-785-miles-to-its-name/109069/
A A --michael cox
References
1. [50]mailto:edducati at mac.com
2. [51]http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
3.
[52]http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-pantera-ha
s-only-785-miles-to-its-name/109069/
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 08:05:15 -0700
From: "Stephen" <[53]steve at snclocks.com>
To: "'marshallgsmith'" <[54]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>,
<[55]P6746 at aol.com>,
<[56]asajay at asajay.com>,
<[57]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic
Message-ID:
<004701d1f706$6ead4a50$4c07def0$@snclocks.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Having been on Boards before - I'd suggest the current Board deserves
some time to catch their breath and
recover from the situation they
have recently been through. It is amazing how much time something like
this takes - and I suspect everyone on the Board would like to catch up
on all the things they have let slide while coping with the removal of
a president and all the animosity and e-mails the whole mess generated.
It's so easy to ask questions - but takes a lot more time to figure out
how to do everything asked below. For now, let's just let the Board
recover and slowly get some of the loose ends taken care of.
Stephen Nelson
-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso [[58]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com]
On
Behalf Of marshallgsmith
Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2016 8:28 PM
To: [59]P6746 at aol.com; [60]asajay at asajay.com;
[61]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic
I have a couple questions Bob:
> Calling this situation "multiple dues levels" seems to be making the
issue too complex. There are some members that are opting to not have
printed magazines mailed which should make those members eligible for a
discount because of the savings.
> What is your estimate of the length of time that it would take the
board to arrange for a vote of the
membership to change the bylaws to
allow for this discount?
> Who specifically made that
apples-to-apples comparison you refer to?
> I agree that the editors should have the most influence on the
process. However, our editors of both publications seem to have a hard
time reporting to the members about ANY issues pertaining to the
publication's themselves. Might that change in the near future or will
radio silence be the norm here?
Marshall Smith
Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: P6746--- via DeTomaso <[62]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Date: 8/14/16 3:10 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: [63]asajay at asajay.com,
[64]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic
To use a cliche, we're working on it.
Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline. However, there are
restrictions, particularly with the
By-Laws as they currently stand.
There are no provisions for multiple dues levels, particularly
pertaining to how a member elects to have their club publications
delivered, etc. That will take time as any changes or amendments must
be approved by the whole membership.
The consensus seems to be that the
Profiles would continue as a print
publication for all except foreign members who elect to receive it
digitally.
As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is so
expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit
cost. So as fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit
increases but not proportionately.
An apples to apples comparison was made between an online printer and
the current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference
was pennies. That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run.
As far as I am concerned, it is the
editors who should have the most
influence as to how and where their
product is produced. They are the
ones who must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular
basis.
Bob Reid
In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M.
Eastern Daylight Time,
[65]asajay at asajay.com
writes:
The last I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was interested
in doing a -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for me,
it's a wait and see kind of thing. I agree, if POCA was missing out on
full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.
However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs
properly. I have more faith that the present board members will
properly investigate and sort it out for everyone.
I am on-board with electronic delivery, though I do admit it's nice to
just sit back and read a paper copy too.
It's also easier to hand-off
to Sam so he can read it later. How do you really fix that?
I would think (and I don't know), that the ClubExpress membership
database might be able to include a
"preference" as part of the
member's profile or details. Just as I can set an address and phone
number, if I could check a box for
Electronic delivery or paper copies,
or both, and select whatever I wanted for each item (Profiles versus
Newsletter), that might be ideal.
However, I'm also familiar with quantity discounting. It very well
could be that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to print
50, or 10 (but I doubt it). I imagine those are considerations the
board will look at as well.
Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have heard (from more
than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign "because POCA
changed printers;" it was over "control"
of newsletter content that in
essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws. For a guy that appeared
to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the by-laws (and it's
unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't feel they
applied to him.
For the record, as I understand it, POCA has changed printers -twice-
since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were
related to the DeRykes) got out of
the business. So the "family tie-in"
previously eluded to, was not a
factor in the resignations.
Just my $1.50 (two cents adjusted for
inflation) Asa Jay
Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired & Shelley Marie Spokane,
WA
******************************
[66]http://w7tsc.org
[67]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not
exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list
[68]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
[69]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
use the links above.
Members who post to this list grant
license to the list to forward any
message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
or approve the archiving of list
messages.
To use a cliche, we're working on it.
Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline. However, there are
restrictions, particularly with the
By-Laws as they currently stand.
There are no provisions for multiple dues levels,
particularly pertaining to how a member elects to have their club
publications delivered, etc. That will take time as any changes or
amendments must be approved by the whole membership.
The consensus seems to be that the
Profiles would continue as a print
publication for all except foreign members who elect to receive it
digitally.
As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is so
expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit
cost. So as fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit
increases but not proportionately.
An apples to apples comparison was made between an online printer and
the current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference
was pennies. That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run.
As far as I am concerned, it is the
editors who should have the most
influence as to how and where their
product is produced. They are the
ones who must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular
basis.
Bob Reid
In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M.
Eastern Daylight Time,
[70]asajay at asajay.com
writes:
The last I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was
interested
in doing a -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for
me,
it's a wait and see kind of thing. I agree, if POCA was missing out
on
full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.
However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs
properly. I have more faith that the present board members will
properly investigate and sort it out for everyone.
I am on-board with electronic delivery, though I do admit it's nice
to
just sit back and read a paper copy too.
It's also easier to
hand-off
to Sam so he can read it later. How do you really fix that?
I would think (and I don't know), that the ClubExpress membership
database might be able to include a
"preference" as part of the
member's
profile or details. Just as I can set an address and phone number,
if I
could check a box for Electronic delivery or paper copies, or both,
and
select whatever I wanted for each item (Profiles versus Newsletter),
that might be ideal.
However, I'm also familiar with quantity discounting. It very well
could be that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to
print
50, or 10 (but I doubt it). I imagine those are considerations the
board will look at as well.
Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have heard (from
more
than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign "because POCA
changed printers;" it was over "control"
of newsletter content that
in
essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws. For a guy that
appeared
to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the by-laws (and
it's
unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't feel they
applied
to him.
For the record, as I understand it, POCA has changed printers
-twice-
since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were
related to the DeRykes) got out
of
the business. So the "family tie-in"
previously eluded to, was not
a
factor in the resignations.
Just my $1.50 (two cents adjusted for
inflation)
Asa Jay
Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
& Shelley Marie
Spokane, WA
******************************
[71]http://w7tsc.org
[72]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
Megabytes
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------------------------------
Subject: Digest Footer
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------------------------------
End of DeTomaso Digest, Vol 146, Issue 20
*****************************************
References
1. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
2. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
3. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
4. mailto:request at server.detomasolist.com
5. mailto:owner at server.detomasolist.com
6. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
7. mailto:P6746 at aol.com
8. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
9. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
10. mailto:sdxpj9k7caacwyvlamgw7uly.1471231663405 at email.android.com
11. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
12. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
13. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
14. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
15. http://w7tsc.org/
16. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
17. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
18. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
19. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
20. http://w7tsc.org/
21. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
22. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
23. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
24. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
25. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
26. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
27. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
28. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
29. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
30. http://w7tsc.org/
31. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
32. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
33. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
34. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
35. http://w7tsc.org/
36. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
37. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
38. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
39. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
40. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
41. mailto:coxmichaelt at gmail.com
42. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
43. mailto:ynAnbzepC1U9QH+A_Q at mail.gmail.com
44. mailto:edducati at mac.com
45. http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
46. http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-pantera-has-only-785-miles-to-its-name/109069/
47. mailto:edducati at mac.com
48. http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
49. http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-pantera-has
50. mailto:edducati at mac.com?
51. http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
52. http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-pantera-has-only-785-miles-to-its-name/109069/
53. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
54. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
55. mailto:P6746 at aol.com
56. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
57. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
58. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com?
59. mailto:P6746 at aol.com
60. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
61. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
62. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
63. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
64. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
65. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
66. http://w7tsc.org/
67. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
68. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
69. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
70. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
71. http://w7tsc.org/
72. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
73. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
74. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
75. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
76. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
77. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
78. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
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Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
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-------------- next part --------------
Yes of course.... I think you now qualify for best sense of humor of
the year along with Julian.
I have a great solution to the paper versus print dilemma. We raise
the dues to $500.00 per year. We elect to go all digital and
included in this price is a shiney ipad for everyone.
I will now wait for someone to "second" my proposal.
Waiting, waiting,
waiting................................................
Lynn (offering smartass solutions where none were requested)
-----Original Message-----
From: Lynn Wall <lwall67 at gmail.com>
To: 'marshall smith' <marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>; detomaso
<detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>; laurieferrari
<laurieferrari at aol.com>
Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2016 10:21 am
Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] resignations
I have a great solution to the paper versus print dilemma. We raise the
dues to $500.00 per year. We elect to go all digital and included in
this price is a shiney ipad for everyone.
I will now wait for someone to "second" my proposal.
Waiting, waiting,
waiting................................................
Lynn (offering smartass solutions where none were requested)
-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On
Behalf Of marshall smith
Sent: Monday, August 15, 2016 11:11 AM
To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com; laurieferrari at aol.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations
I find it funny that three months after the Fun Rally we are now
hearing that Shortt's bid for printing did not include shipping. Shortt
is a lot of things but a mistake like this...?
I was listening in on this meeting also and I know what I heard.
Apparently, the board convinced 'some' members of this so-called
discrepancy month's ago. Why wasn't this information, if it exists,
relayed to ALL of us in a timely manner?
Marshall
--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 8/15/16, Laurie Ferrari via DeTomaso
<detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] resignations
To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Date: Monday, August 15, 2016, 9:57 AM
Dear AJ,
I have always respected you and your opinions but in this case you are
incorrect as far as the resignation of Jack DeRyke. I was on the Board
of Directors' conference call where he was asked to stay and he
adamantly refused to if the printer
changed. Jack's resignation was
specifically because of the change in printer! You can go research
that phone conference call, or the minutes of the meeting, as the facts
are saved. As far as Mike Haney's
resignation, that was done by his
Mrs. for their reasons which most likely were aligned with their
parents.
Laurie
In a message dated 8/13/2016
9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,?
[1]asajay at asajay.com
writes:
The last? I heard (and I may have
heard wrong), the board was
interested
in doing a? -real- accounting
comparison of printing costs, so for
me,
it's a wait and? see kind of
thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing
out on
full-color? and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.?
However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs
properly.? I? have more faith that the present board members will
properly investigate? and sort it
out for everyone.
I am on-board with electronic
delivery,? though I do admit it's nice
to
just sit back and read a paper
copy? too.? It's also easier to
hand-off
to Sam so he can read it? later.?
How do you really fix that?
I would think (and I don't? know), that the ClubExpress membership
database might be able to include
a? "preference" as part of the
member's
profile or details.? Just as I? can set an address and phone number,
if I
could check a box for Electronic?
delivery or paper copies, or both,
and
select whatever I wanted for each?
item (Profiles versus
Newsletter),
that might be ideal.
However,? I'm also familiar with
quantity discounting.? It very well
could be? that it costs the same
amount to print 500 as it does to
print
50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I
imagine those are considerations the
board will? look at as well.
Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have? heard (from
more
than one person), that Jack and
Mike did not resign? "because POCA
changed printers;" it was over
"control" of newsletter? content that
in
essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For? a guy that
appeared
to try very hard to get everyone
else to follow the? by-laws (and
it's
unwritten code of ethics), Mr.
Shortt certainly didn't? feel they
applied
to him.
For the record, as I understand it, POCA? has changed printers
-twice-
since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related? to the DeRykes) got out
of
the business.? So the "family
tie-in"? previously eluded to, was not
a
factor in the resignations.
Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation)
Asa? Jay
Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt,
USAFR, Retired
&? Shelley? Mar
-----Original Message-----
From: detomaso-request <detomaso-request at server.detomasolist.com>
To: detomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2016 9:00 am
Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 146, Issue
20
Send DeTomaso mailing list submissions to
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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Daily Detomaso List Digest
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs.
electronic (marshallgsmith)
2. Re: De Tomaso Pantera GTS on eBay!
again $250K!! (Michael Cox)
3. Re: Newsletters, cost, paper vs.
electronic (Stephen)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 20:27:43 -0700
From: marshallgsmith <[6]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
To: [7]P6746 at aol.com, [8]asajay at asajay.com,
[9]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic
Message-ID:
<[10]sdxpj9k7caacwyvlamgw7uly.1471231663405 at email.android.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
I have a couple questions Bob:
> Calling this situation "multiple dues levels" seems to be making the
issue too complex. There are some members that are opting to not have
printed magazines mailed which should make those members eligible for a
discount because of the savings.
> What is your estimate of the length of time that it would take the
board to arrange for a vote of the
membership to change the bylaws to
allow for this discount?
> Who specifically made that
apples-to-apples comparison you refer to?
> I agree that the editors should have the most influence ?on the
process. ?However, our editors of both publications seem to have a hard
time reporting to the members about ANY issues pertaining to the
publication's themselves. Might that change in the near future or will
radio silence be the norm here?
Marshall Smith
Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: P6746--- via DeTomaso <[11]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Date: 8/14/16 3:10 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: [12]asajay at asajay.com,
[13]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic
To use a cliche, we're working on it.?
Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline.?? However, there
are
restrictions, particularly with the
By-Laws as they currently? stand.?
There
are no provisions for multiple dues
levels,? particularly pertaining to
how a
member elects to have their club?
publications delivered, etc.? That
will
take time as any changes or? amendments must be approved by the whole
membership.
The consensus seems to be that the
Profiles would? continue as a print
publication for all except foreign members who elect to? receive it
digitally.?
As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is? so
expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit?
cost.? So as
fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit? increases but
not
proportionately.??
An apples to apples comparison was made between an online? printer and
the
current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference? was
pennies.? That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run.?
As far as I am concerned, it is the
editors who should have? the most
influence as to how and where their
product is produced.? They are? the
ones who
must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular? basis.
Bob Reid?
In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M.
Eastern Daylight Time,?
[14]asajay at asajay.com
writes:
The last? I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was
interested
in doing a? -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for me,
it's a wait and? see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing out
on
full-color? and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.?
However, I? also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs
properly.? I? have more faith that the present board members will
properly investigate? and sort it out for everyone.
I am on-board with electronic delivery,?
though I do admit it's nice to
just sit back and read a paper copy? too.?
It's also easier to hand-off
to Sam so he can read it? later.? How do you really fix that?
I would think (and I don't? know), that the ClubExpress membership
database might be able to include a?
"preference" as part of the
member's
profile or details.? Just as I? can set an address and phone number, if
I
could check a box for Electronic? delivery or paper copies, or both,
and
select whatever I wanted for each? item (Profiles versus Newsletter),
that might be ideal.
However,? I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very well
could be? that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to
print
50, or 10? (but I doubt it).? I imagine those are considerations the
board will? look at as well.
Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have? heard (from
more
than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign? "because POCA
changed printers;" it was over "control"
of newsletter? content that in
essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For? a guy that
appeared
to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the? by-laws (and it's
unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't? feel they
applied
to him.
For the record, as I understand it, POCA?
has changed printers -twice-
since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were
related? to the DeRykes) got out of
the business.? So the "family tie-in"?
previously eluded to, was not a
factor in the resignations.
Just my? $1.50? (two cents adjusted for
inflation)
Asa? Jay
Asa Jay? Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
&? Shelley? Marie
Spokane,? WA
******************************
[15]http://w7tsc.org
[16]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
_______________________________________________
Detomaso? Email List is not managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5?
Megabytes
DeTomaso mailing? list
[17]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
[18]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To? manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
use
the? links above.
Members who post to this list grant
license to the list to? forward any
message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the?
list. They
also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or? approve
the
archiving of list? messages.
?? To use a cliche, we're working on it.
?? Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline.? However, there
are
?? restrictions, particularly with the By-Laws as they currently stand.
?? There are no provisions for multiple dues levels,
?? particularly pertaining to how a member elects to have their club
?? publications delivered, etc.? That will take time as any changes or
?? amendments must be approved by the whole membership.
?? The consensus seems to be that the Profiles would continue as a
print
?? publication for all except foreign members who elect to receive it
?? digitally.
?? As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is so
?? expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit
?? cost.? So as fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit
?? increases but not proportionately.
?? An apples to apples comparison was made between an online printer
and
?? the current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference
?? was pennies.? That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run.
?? As far as I am concerned, it is the editors who should have the most
?? influence as to how and where their product is produced.? They are
the
?? ones who must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular
?? basis.
?? Bob Reid
?? In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
?? [19]asajay at asajay.com
writes:
???? The last I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was
???? interested
???? in doing a -real- accounting
comparison of printing costs, so for
???? me,
???? it's a wait and see kind of thing.? I agree, if POCA was missing
out
???? on
???? full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.
???? However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs
???? properly.? I have more faith that the present board members will
???? properly investigate and sort it out for everyone.
???? I am on-board with electronic
delivery, though I do admit it's
nice
???? to
???? just sit back and read a paper copy too.? It's also easier to
???? hand-off
???? to Sam so he can read it later.? How do you really fix that?
???? I would think (and I don't know), that the ClubExpress membership
???? database might be able to include a "preference" as part of the
???? member's
???? profile or details.? Just as I can set an address and phone
number,
???? if I
???? could check a box for Electronic delivery or paper copies, or
both,
???? and
???? select whatever I wanted for each item (Profiles versus
Newsletter),
???? that might be ideal.
???? However, I'm also familiar with quantity discounting.? It very
well
???? could be that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to
???? print
???? 50, or 10 (but I doubt it).? I
imagine those are considerations
the
???? board will look at as well.
???? Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have heard (from
???? more
???? than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign "because POCA
???? changed printers;" it was over
"control" of newsletter content
that
???? in
???? essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws.? For a guy that
???? appeared
???? to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the by-laws (and
???? it's
???? unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't feel they
???? applied
???? to him.
???? For the record, as I understand it, POCA has changed printers
???? -twice-
???? since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were related to the DeRykes) got
out
???? of
???? the business.? So the "family tie-in"
previously eluded to, was
not
???? a
???? factor in the resignations.
???? Just my $1.50? (two cents adjusted for inflation)
???? Asa? Jay
???? Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
???? &? Shelley Marie
???? Spokane, WA
???? ******************************
???? [20]http://w7tsc.org
???? [21]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
????
_______________________________________________
???? Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
???? Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
???? DeTomaso mailing list
???? [22]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
???? [23]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
???? To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
???? etc.) use the links above.
???? Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
???? any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
???? the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
???? archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
Megabytes
DeTomaso mailing list
[24]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
[25]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
use the links above.
Members who post to this list grant
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message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
or approve the archiving of list
messages.
-------------- next part --------------
I have a couple questions Bob:
> Calling this situation "multiple dues levels" seems to be making the
issue too complex. There are some members that are opting to not have
printed magazines mailed which should make those members eligible for a
discount because of the savings.
> What is your estimate of the length of time that it would take the
board to arrange for a vote of the
membership to change the bylaws to
allow for this discount?
> Who specifically made that
apples-to-apples comparison you refer to?
> I agree that the editors should have the most influence on the
process. However, our editors of both publications seem to have a hard
time reporting to the members about ANY issues pertaining to the
publication's themselves. Might that change in the near future or will
radio silence be the norm here?
Marshall Smith
Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: P6746--- via DeTomaso <[26]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Date: 8/14/16 3:10 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: [27]asajay at asajay.com,
[28]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic
To use a cliche, we're working on it.
Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline. However, there
are
restrictions, particularly with the
By-Laws as they currently stand.
There
are no provisions for multiple dues
levels, particularly pertaining to
how a
member elects to have their club
publications delivered, etc. That
will
take time as any changes or amendments must be approved by the whole
membership.
The consensus seems to be that the
Profiles would continue as a print
publication for all except foreign members who elect to receive it
digitally.
As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is so
expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit
cost. So as
fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit increases but
not
proportionately.
An apples to apples comparison was made between an online printer and
the
current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference was
pennies. That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run.
As far as I am concerned, it is the
editors who should have the most
influence as to how and where their
product is produced. They are the
ones who
must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular basis.
Bob Reid
In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M.
Eastern Daylight Time,
[29]asajay at asajay.com
writes:
The last I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was
interested
in doing a -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for me,
it's a wait and see kind of thing. I agree, if POCA was missing out
on
full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.
However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs
properly. I have more faith that the present board members will
properly investigate and sort it out for everyone.
I am on-board with electronic delivery, though I do admit it's nice to
just sit back and read a paper copy too.
It's also easier to hand-off
to Sam so he can read it later. How do you really fix that?
I would think (and I don't know), that the ClubExpress membership
database might be able to include a
"preference" as part of the
member's
profile or details. Just as I can set an address and phone number, if
I
could check a box for Electronic delivery or paper copies, or both,
and
select whatever I wanted for each item (Profiles versus Newsletter),
that might be ideal.
However, I'm also familiar with quantity discounting. It very well
could be that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to
print
50, or 10 (but I doubt it). I imagine those are considerations the
board will look at as well.
Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have heard (from
more
than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign "because POCA
changed printers;" it was over "control"
of newsletter content that in
essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws. For a guy that
appeared
to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the by-laws (and it's
unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't feel they
applied
to him.
For the record, as I understand it, POCA has changed printers -twice-
since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were
related to the DeRykes) got out of
the business. So the "family tie-in"
previously eluded to, was not a
factor in the resignations.
Just my $1.50 (two cents adjusted for
inflation)
Asa Jay
Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
& Shelley Marie
Spokane, WA
******************************
[30]http://w7tsc.org
[31]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
Megabytes
DeTomaso mailing list
[32]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
[33]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
use
the links above.
Members who post to this list grant
license to the list to forward any
message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
list. They
also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve
the
archiving of list messages.
To use a cliche, we're working on it.
Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline. However, there
are
restrictions, particularly with the
By-Laws as they currently stand.
There are no provisions for multiple dues levels,
particularly pertaining to how a member elects to have their club
publications delivered, etc. That will take time as any changes or
amendments must be approved by the whole membership.
The consensus seems to be that the
Profiles would continue as a
print
publication for all except foreign members who elect to receive it
digitally.
As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is so
expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit
cost. So as fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit
increases but not proportionately.
An apples to apples comparison was made between an online printer
and
the current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference
was pennies. That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run.
As far as I am concerned, it is the
editors who should have the most
influence as to how and where their
product is produced. They are
the
ones who must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular
basis.
Bob Reid
In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M.
Eastern Daylight Time,
[34]asajay at asajay.com
writes:
The last I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was
interested
in doing a -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for
me,
it's a wait and see kind of thing. I agree, if POCA was missing
out
on
full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.
However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs
properly. I have more faith that the present board members will
properly investigate and sort it out for everyone.
I am on-board with electronic delivery, though I do admit it's
nice
to
just sit back and read a paper copy too.
It's also easier to
hand-off
to Sam so he can read it later. How do you really fix that?
I would think (and I don't know), that the ClubExpress membership
database might be able to include a
"preference" as part of the
member's
profile or details. Just as I can set an address and phone
number,
if I
could check a box for Electronic delivery or paper copies, or
both,
and
select whatever I wanted for each item (Profiles versus
Newsletter),
that might be ideal.
However, I'm also familiar with quantity discounting. It very
well
could be that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to
print
50, or 10 (but I doubt it). I imagine those are considerations
the
board will look at as well.
Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have heard (from
more
than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign "because POCA
changed printers;" it was over "control"
of newsletter content
that
in
essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws. For a guy that
appeared
to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the by-laws (and
it's
unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't feel they
applied
to him.
For the record, as I understand it, POCA has changed printers
-twice-
since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were
related to the DeRykes) got
out
of
the business. So the "family tie-in"
previously eluded to, was
not
a
factor in the resignations.
Just my $1.50 (two cents adjusted for
inflation)
Asa Jay
Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
& Shelley Marie
Spokane, WA
******************************
[35]http://w7tsc.org
[36]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
Megabytes
DeTomaso mailing list
[37]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
[38]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
etc.) use the links above.
Members who post to this list grant
license to the list to forward
any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
Megabytes
DeTomaso mailing list
[39]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
[40]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
use the links above.
Members who post to this list grant
license to the list to forward any
message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
or approve the archiving of list
messages.
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 20:56:45 -0700
From: Michael Cox <[41]coxmichaelt at gmail.com>
To: [42]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] De Tomaso Pantera GTS on eBay! again $250K!!
Message-ID:
<CAMPkPf3HQcqg5vLxgjpJP=7z=UBbrVs=[43]ynAnbzepC1U9QH+A_Q at mail.gmail.com
>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> From: Ed Mendez <[44]edducati at mac.com>
> Subject: [DeTomaso] De Tomaso Pantera GTS on eBay! again $250K!!
>
> Hi! I found this on eBay and thought you might like it! Check it out
now! De Tomaso:
> Other Pantera GTS [45]http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
These guys found that ad too. :^)
[46]http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-pantera-ha
s-only-785-miles-to-its-name/109069/
--michael cox
-------------- next part --------------
> From: Ed Mendez <[1][47]edducati at mac.com>
> Subject: [DeTomaso] De Tomaso Pantera GTS on eBay! again $250K!!
>A
> Hi! I found this on eBay and thought you might like it! Check it out
now!A De Tomaso:
> Other Pantera GTSA [2][48]http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
These guys found that ad too. A :^)
[3][49]http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-pantera
-has
-only-785-miles-to-its-name/109069/
A A --michael cox
References
1. [50]mailto:edducati at mac.com
2. [51]http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
3.
[52]http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-pantera-ha
s-only-785-miles-to-its-name/109069/
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 08:05:15 -0700
From: "Stephen" <[53]steve at snclocks.com>
To: "'marshallgsmith'" <[54]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>,
<[55]P6746 at aol.com>,
<[56]asajay at asajay.com>,
<[57]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic
Message-ID:
<004701d1f706$6ead4a50$4c07def0$@snclocks.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Having been on Boards before - I'd suggest the current Board deserves
some time to catch their breath and
recover from the situation they
have recently been through. It is amazing how much time something like
this takes - and I suspect everyone on the Board would like to catch up
on all the things they have let slide while coping with the removal of
a president and all the animosity and e-mails the whole mess generated.
It's so easy to ask questions - but takes a lot more time to figure out
how to do everything asked below. For now, let's just let the Board
recover and slowly get some of the loose ends taken care of.
Stephen Nelson
-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso [[58]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com]
On
Behalf Of marshallgsmith
Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2016 8:28 PM
To: [59]P6746 at aol.com; [60]asajay at asajay.com;
[61]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic
I have a couple questions Bob:
> Calling this situation "multiple dues levels" seems to be making the
issue too complex. There are some members that are opting to not have
printed magazines mailed which should make those members eligible for a
discount because of the savings.
> What is your estimate of the length of time that it would take the
board to arrange for a vote of the
membership to change the bylaws to
allow for this discount?
> Who specifically made that
apples-to-apples comparison you refer to?
> I agree that the editors should have the most influence on the
process. However, our editors of both publications seem to have a hard
time reporting to the members about ANY issues pertaining to the
publication's themselves. Might that change in the near future or will
radio silence be the norm here?
Marshall Smith
Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: P6746--- via DeTomaso <[62]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Date: 8/14/16 3:10 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: [63]asajay at asajay.com,
[64]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Newsletters, cost, paper vs. electronic
To use a cliche, we're working on it.
Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline. However, there are
restrictions, particularly with the
By-Laws as they currently stand.
There are no provisions for multiple dues levels, particularly
pertaining to how a member elects to have their club publications
delivered, etc. That will take time as any changes or amendments must
be approved by the whole membership.
The consensus seems to be that the
Profiles would continue as a print
publication for all except foreign members who elect to receive it
digitally.
As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is so
expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit
cost. So as fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit
increases but not proportionately.
An apples to apples comparison was made between an online printer and
the current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference
was pennies. That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run.
As far as I am concerned, it is the
editors who should have the most
influence as to how and where their
product is produced. They are the
ones who must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular
basis.
Bob Reid
In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M.
Eastern Daylight Time,
[65]asajay at asajay.com
writes:
The last I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was interested
in doing a -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for me,
it's a wait and see kind of thing. I agree, if POCA was missing out on
full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.
However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs
properly. I have more faith that the present board members will
properly investigate and sort it out for everyone.
I am on-board with electronic delivery, though I do admit it's nice to
just sit back and read a paper copy too.
It's also easier to hand-off
to Sam so he can read it later. How do you really fix that?
I would think (and I don't know), that the ClubExpress membership
database might be able to include a
"preference" as part of the
member's profile or details. Just as I can set an address and phone
number, if I could check a box for
Electronic delivery or paper copies,
or both, and select whatever I wanted for each item (Profiles versus
Newsletter), that might be ideal.
However, I'm also familiar with quantity discounting. It very well
could be that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to print
50, or 10 (but I doubt it). I imagine those are considerations the
board will look at as well.
Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have heard (from more
than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign "because POCA
changed printers;" it was over "control"
of newsletter content that in
essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws. For a guy that appeared
to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the by-laws (and it's
unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't feel they
applied to him.
For the record, as I understand it, POCA has changed printers -twice-
since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were
related to the DeRykes) got out of
the business. So the "family tie-in"
previously eluded to, was not a
factor in the resignations.
Just my $1.50 (two cents adjusted for
inflation) Asa Jay
Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired & Shelley Marie Spokane,
WA
******************************
[66]http://w7tsc.org
[67]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not
exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list
[68]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
[69]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
use the links above.
Members who post to this list grant
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To use a cliche, we're working on it.
Most of what has been mentioned is in the pipeline. However, there are
restrictions, particularly with the
By-Laws as they currently stand.
There are no provisions for multiple dues levels,
particularly pertaining to how a member elects to have their club
publications delivered, etc. That will take time as any changes or
amendments must be approved by the whole membership.
The consensus seems to be that the
Profiles would continue as a print
publication for all except foreign members who elect to receive it
digitally.
As far as printing is concerned, it is that first copy that is so
expensive, it is the subsequent copies that bring down the per unit
cost. So as fewer units are produced and shipped, the cost per unit
increases but not proportionately.
An apples to apples comparison was made between an online printer and
the current printer for both printing and mailing and the difference
was pennies. That wasn't pennies per unit but for the whole run.
As far as I am concerned, it is the
editors who should have the most
influence as to how and where their
product is produced. They are the
ones who must work with the printers and mailing houses on a regular
basis.
Bob Reid
In a message dated 8/13/2016 9:54:24 P.M.
Eastern Daylight Time,
[70]asajay at asajay.com
writes:
The last I heard (and I may have heard wrong), the board was
interested
in doing a -real- accounting comparison of printing costs, so for
me,
it's a wait and see kind of thing. I agree, if POCA was missing out
on
full-color and paying $8,000 more for B/W then something is amiss.
However, I also believe Mr. Shortt didn't account for all costs
properly. I have more faith that the present board members will
properly investigate and sort it out for everyone.
I am on-board with electronic delivery, though I do admit it's nice
to
just sit back and read a paper copy too.
It's also easier to
hand-off
to Sam so he can read it later. How do you really fix that?
I would think (and I don't know), that the ClubExpress membership
database might be able to include a
"preference" as part of the
member's
profile or details. Just as I can set an address and phone number,
if I
could check a box for Electronic delivery or paper copies, or both,
and
select whatever I wanted for each item (Profiles versus Newsletter),
that might be ideal.
However, I'm also familiar with quantity discounting. It very well
could be that it costs the same amount to print 500 as it does to
print
50, or 10 (but I doubt it). I imagine those are considerations the
board will look at as well.
Oh, and in contrast to what Laurie has claimed, I have heard (from
more
than one person), that Jack and Mike did not resign "because POCA
changed printers;" it was over "control"
of newsletter content that
in
essence fell outside the bounds of the by-laws. For a guy that
appeared
to try very hard to get everyone else to follow the by-laws (and
it's
unwritten code of ethics), Mr. Shortt certainly didn't feel they
applied
to him.
For the record, as I understand it, POCA has changed printers
-twice-
since the Fertitta's (sp) (who were
related to the DeRykes) got out
of
the business. So the "family tie-in"
previously eluded to, was not
a
factor in the resignations.
Just my $1.50 (two cents adjusted for
inflation)
Asa Jay
Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
& Shelley Marie
Spokane, WA
******************************
[71]http://w7tsc.org
[72]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
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References
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8. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
9. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
10. mailto:sdxpj9k7caacwyvlamgw7uly.1471231663405 at email.android.com
11. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
12. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
13. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
14. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
15. http://w7tsc.org/
16. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
17. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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23. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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25. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
26. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
27. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
28. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
29. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
30. http://w7tsc.org/
31. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
32. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
33. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
34. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
35. http://w7tsc.org/
36. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
37. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
38. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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43. mailto:ynAnbzepC1U9QH+A_Q at mail.gmail.com
44. mailto:edducati at mac.com
45. http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
46.
http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-pantera-has-on
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47. mailto:edducati at mac.com
48. http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
49.
http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-pantera-has
50. mailto:edducati at mac.com?
51. http://r.ebay.com/qvHdvC
52.
http://news.boldride.com/2016/08/this-stunning-de-tomaso-pantera-has-on
ly-785-miles-to-its-name/109069/
53. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
54. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
55. mailto:P6746 at aol.com
56. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
57. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
58. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com?
59. mailto:P6746 at aol.com
60. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
61. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
62. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
63. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
64. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
65. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
66. http://w7tsc.org/
67. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
68. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
69. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
70. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
71. http://w7tsc.org/
72. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
73. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
74. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
75. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
76. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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