[DeTomaso] Has anyone researched hood vent designs?
Ken Green
kenn_green at yahoo.com
Tue Aug 2 11:49:08 EDT 2016
>From Goran's website (http://www.hemipanter.se/#Aerodynamic):
"My own design front hood. All air passing through radiator is coming out here. I made this for my first Pantera. Altrouhgt this on is used on Bjorn Carapis 219 mph car.He did not experience any speed front end lift."
Ken
From: Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com>
To: James coyne <tecnosound at hotmail.com>; Rod Kunishige <rkunishige at hotmail.com>; "scottcouchman at yahoo.com" <scottcouchman at yahoo.com>; "detomaso at server.detomasolist.com" <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>; Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 2, 2016 7:55 AM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Has anyone researched hood vent designs?
Okay, let's put our engineering hats on and have some fun
technical discussion..... it sure beats the discussion over POCA of
late!
I think (but readily admit my engineering degree is not in
aerodynamics!) hood vents and location play a minor part in overall
aerodynamics.
Hood vents are a great way to provide additional cooling in traffic,
but perhaps limited value at high speed when the front of the hood
becomes a high pressure area. Now you have opposing forces at play
and at speed 'x' the pressure is likely enough to overcome that
produced by the radiator fans (I imagine that 'x' would not
be excessively high, perhaps even highway cruising speed). So
outside air now reverse enters the hood vents or at a minimum restricts
fan flow resulting in air that is forced under the car i.e. back to
the original Ford design concept. A Gurney lip on the frontal edge
of hood vents would help create a low pressure area, but I still
believe the air from the radiators will ultimately be forced under the
car at some speed now x+y.
As testament to the pressures on the hood Larry Stock told me that Mike
Cooke collapsed an aluminum hood at high speed.
As alternative thinking, most cars that employ an aerodynamic frontal
hood vent do so in combination with a full flat underside. I think this
is a critical element in the success of the design and one without the
other is likely non productive. Furthermore most running Pantera's in
ORR have reported that a front air dam is a key element in preventing
front end lift at +150mph, again attesting to restricting air flow
under the car is the most critical element. I'd go for the front air
dam in combination with a fully enclosed flat floor/tray as my first
modifications and leave cutting the front trunk aspect (and the
ensuing frontal rigidity impact).
As an a side the popular radiator fan shrouds also become restrictive
at high speed and require opening up, some have achieved this with
simple hinged flaps that can freely open as the pressure through the
radiator increases.
Julian
__________________________________________________________________
From: Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, August 1, 2016 10:28 AM
To: James coyne; Julian Kift; Rod Kunishige; scottcouchman at yahoo.com;
detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Has anyone researched hood vent designs?
Probably more correct to say I intend the car to be able to run well
over 150. Not sure if I want to drive that fast on a country road. I
would be a lot more comfortable having fun at lower speeds in an ORR,
and trying the flying mile type events to see how fast the car can
actually go.
The older we get, the longer it takes to heal.
Ken
__________________________________________________________________
From: James coyne <tecnosound at hotmail.com>
To: Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com>; Rod Kunishige
<rkunishige at hotmail.com>; "scottcouchman at yahoo.com"
<scottcouchman at yahoo.com>; Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>;
"detomaso at server.detomasolist.com" <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Monday, August 1, 2016 9:00 AM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Has anyone researched hood vent designs?
I believe it is indeed Ken's intension to run in the 150mph+ classes at
open road events .
__________________________________________________________________
From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of
Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com>
Sent: Monday, August 1, 2016 7:49 AM
To: Rod Kunishige; scottcouchman at yahoo.com; Ken Green;
detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Has anyone researched hood vent designs?
This seems like an awful lot of work for little to no gain, is this a
dedicated race car that will be running the 150mph+ classes at an Open
Road Race?
Julian
________________________________
From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of
Ken Green via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Monday, August 1, 2016 7:00 AM
To: Rod Kunishige; scottcouchman at yahoo.com
Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Has anyone researched hood vent designs?
My gut feeing is the opening needs to be moved back to reduce air
pressure over the opening. And that probably depends on speed.
Ken
From: Rod Kunishige <rkunishige at hotmail.com>
To: "scottcouchman at yahoo.com" <scottcouchman at yahoo.com>; Ken Green
<kenn_green at yahoo.com>
Cc: "detomaso at server.detomasolist.com"
<detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2016 10:13 PM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Has anyone researched hood vent designs?
I really like the idea of boxing the trunk in your design.
It means moving the support ribs for the hood.
Can you enlarge the opening by starting closer to the radiator?
From: Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>
I think photos of that car were posted a year ago? I want the car to
look like a Pantera, not a GT40.
en
From: "scottcouchman at yahoo.com" <scottcouchman at yahoo.com>
You should talk with Tony Ortiz in Arizona. He modified his Pantera
to
install front and rear GT40 clips.
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-------------- next part --------------
From Goran's website (http://www.hemipanter.se/#Aerodynamic):
"My own design front hood. All air passing through radiator is coming
out here. I made this for my first Pantera. Altrouhgt this on is used
on Bjorn Carapis 219 mph car.He did not experience any speed front end
lift."
Ken Inline image
__________________________________________________________________
From: Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com>
To: James coyne <tecnosound at hotmail.com>; Rod Kunishige
<rkunishige at hotmail.com>; "scottcouchman at yahoo.com"
<scottcouchman at yahoo.com>; "detomaso at server.detomasolist.com"
<detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>; Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 2, 2016 7:55 AM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Has anyone researched hood vent designs?
Okay, let's put our engineering hats on and have some fun
technical discussion..... it sure beats the discussion over POCA of
late!
I think (but readily admit my engineering degree is not in
aerodynamics!) hood vents and location play a minor part in overall
aerodynamics.
Hood vents are a great way to provide additional cooling in traffic,
but perhaps limited value at high speed when the front of the hood
becomes a high pressure area. Now you have opposing forces at play
and at speed 'x' the pressure is likely enough to overcome that
produced by the radiator fans (I imagine that 'x' would not
be excessively high, perhaps even highway cruising speed). So
outside air now reverse enters the hood vents or at a minimum
restricts
fan flow resulting in air that is forced under the car i.e. back to
the original Ford design concept. A Gurney lip on the frontal edge
of hood vents would help create a low pressure area, but I still
believe the air from the radiators will ultimately be forced under
the
car at some speed now x+y.
As testament to the pressures on the hood Larry Stock told me that
Mike
Cooke collapsed an aluminum hood at high speed.
As alternative thinking, most cars that employ an aerodynamic frontal
hood vent do so in combination with a full flat underside. I think
this
is a critical element in the success of the design and one without
the
other is likely non productive. Furthermore most running Pantera's in
ORR have reported that a front air dam is a key element in preventing
front end lift at +150mph, again attesting to restricting air flow
under the car is the most critical element. I'd go for the front air
dam in combination with a fully enclosed flat floor/tray as my first
modifications and leave cutting the front trunk aspect (and the
ensuing frontal rigidity impact).
As an a side the popular radiator fan shrouds also become restrictive
at high speed and require opening up, some have achieved this with
simple hinged flaps that can freely open as the pressure through the
radiator increases.
Julian
__________________________________________________________________
From: Ken Green <[1]kenn_green at yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, August 1, 2016 10:28 AM
To: James coyne; Julian Kift; Rod Kunishige;
[2]scottcouchman at yahoo.com;
[3]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Has anyone researched hood vent designs?
Probably more correct to say I intend the car to be able to run well
over 150. Not sure if I want to drive that fast on a country road.
I
would be a lot more comfortable having fun at lower speeds in an ORR,
and trying the flying mile type events to see how fast the car can
actually go.
The older we get, the longer it takes to heal.
Ken
__________________________________________________________________
From: James coyne <[4]tecnosound at hotmail.com>
To: Julian Kift <[5]julian_kift at hotmail.com>; Rod Kunishige
<[6]rkunishige at hotmail.com>; "[7]scottcouchman at yahoo.com"
<[8]scottcouchman at yahoo.com>; Ken Green <[9]kenn_green at yahoo.com>;
"[10]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com"
<[11]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Monday, August 1, 2016 9:00 AM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Has anyone researched hood vent designs?
I believe it is indeed Ken's intension to run in the 150mph+ classes
at
open road events .
__________________________________________________________________
From: DeTomaso <[12]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on
behalf of
Julian Kift <[13]julian_kift at hotmail.com>
Sent: Monday, August 1, 2016 7:49 AM
To: Rod Kunishige; [14]scottcouchman at yahoo.com; Ken Green;
[15]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Has anyone researched hood vent designs?
This seems like an awful lot of work for little to no gain, is this a
dedicated race car that will be running the 150mph+ classes at an
Open
Road Race?
Julian
________________________________
From: DeTomaso <[16]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on
behalf of
Ken Green via DeTomaso <[17]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Monday, August 1, 2016 7:00 AM
To: Rod Kunishige; [18]scottcouchman at yahoo.com
Cc: [19]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Has anyone researched hood vent designs?
My gut feeing is the opening needs to be moved back to reduce air
pressure over the opening. And that probably depends on speed.
Ken
From: Rod Kunishige <[20]rkunishige at hotmail.com>
To: "[21]scottcouchman at yahoo.com" <[22]scottcouchman at yahoo.com>;
Ken Green
<[23]kenn_green at yahoo.com>
Cc: "[24]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com"
<[25]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2016 10:13 PM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Has anyone researched hood vent designs?
I really like the idea of boxing the trunk in your design.
It means moving the support ribs for the hood.
Can you enlarge the opening by starting closer to the radiator?
From: Ken Green <[26]kenn_green at yahoo.com>
I think photos of that car were posted a year ago? I want the car
to
look like a Pantera, not a GT40.
en
From: "[27]scottcouchman at yahoo.com" <[28]scottcouchman at yahoo.com>
You should talk with Tony Ortiz in Arizona. He modified his Pantera
to
install front and rear GT40 clips.
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
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