[DeTomaso] Has anyone researched hood vent designs?

Ken Green kenn_green at yahoo.com
Tue Aug 2 11:49:08 EDT 2016


>From Goran's website (http://www.hemipanter.se/#Aerodynamic):
"My own design front hood. All air passing through radiator is coming out here. I made this for my first Pantera. Altrouhgt this on is used on Bjorn  Carapis 219 mph car.He did not experience any speed front end lift."
Ken


      From: Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com>
 To: James coyne <tecnosound at hotmail.com>; Rod Kunishige <rkunishige at hotmail.com>; "scottcouchman at yahoo.com" <scottcouchman at yahoo.com>; "detomaso at server.detomasolist.com" <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>; Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com> 
 Sent: Tuesday, August 2, 2016 7:55 AM
 Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Has anyone researched hood vent designs?
   
  Okay, let's put our engineering hats on and have some fun
  technical discussion..... it sure beats the discussion over POCA of
  late!

  I think (but readily admit my engineering degree is not in
  aerodynamics!) hood vents and location play a minor part in overall
  aerodynamics.

  Hood vents are a great way to provide additional cooling in traffic,
  but perhaps  limited value at high speed when the front of the hood
  becomes a high pressure area. Now you have opposing forces at play
  and at speed 'x'  the pressure is likely enough to overcome that
  produced by the radiator fans (I imagine that 'x' would not
  be excessively high, perhaps even highway cruising speed). So
  outside air now reverse enters the hood vents or at a minimum restricts
  fan flow resulting in air that is forced under the car i.e. back to
  the original Ford design concept. A Gurney lip on the frontal edge
  of hood vents would help create a low pressure area, but I still
  believe the air from the radiators will ultimately be forced under the
  car at some speed now x+y.

  As testament to the pressures on the hood Larry Stock told me that Mike
  Cooke collapsed an aluminum hood at high speed.

  As alternative thinking, most cars that employ an aerodynamic frontal
  hood vent do so in combination with a full flat underside. I think this
  is a critical element in the success of the design and one without the
  other is likely non productive. Furthermore most running Pantera's in
  ORR have reported that a front air dam is a key element in preventing
  front end lift at +150mph, again attesting to restricting air flow
  under the car is the most critical element.  I'd go for the front air
  dam in combination with a fully enclosed flat floor/tray as my first
  modifications and leave cutting the front trunk aspect (and the
  ensuing frontal rigidity impact).

  As an a side the popular radiator fan shrouds also become restrictive
  at high speed and require opening up, some have achieved this with
  simple hinged flaps that can freely open as the pressure through the
  radiator increases.

  Julian
    __________________________________________________________________

  From: Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>
  Sent: Monday, August 1, 2016 10:28 AM
  To: James coyne; Julian Kift; Rod Kunishige; scottcouchman at yahoo.com;
  detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Has anyone researched hood vent designs?

  Probably more correct to say I intend the car to be able to run well
  over 150.  Not sure if I want to drive that fast on a country road.  I
  would be a lot more comfortable having fun at lower speeds in an ORR,
  and trying the flying mile type events to see how fast the car can
  actually go.
  The older we get, the longer it takes to heal.
  Ken
    __________________________________________________________________

  From: James coyne <tecnosound at hotmail.com>
  To: Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com>; Rod Kunishige
  <rkunishige at hotmail.com>; "scottcouchman at yahoo.com"
  <scottcouchman at yahoo.com>; Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>;
  "detomaso at server.detomasolist.com" <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
  Sent: Monday, August 1, 2016 9:00 AM
  Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Has anyone researched hood vent designs?
  I believe it is indeed Ken's intension to run in the 150mph+ classes at
  open road events .
    __________________________________________________________________

  From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of
  Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com>
  Sent: Monday, August 1, 2016 7:49 AM
  To: Rod Kunishige; scottcouchman at yahoo.com; Ken Green;
  detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Has anyone researched hood vent designs?

  This seems like an awful lot of work for little to no gain, is this a
  dedicated race car that will be running the 150mph+ classes at an Open
  Road Race?
  Julian
  ________________________________
  From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of
  Ken Green via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
  Sent: Monday, August 1, 2016 7:00 AM
  To: Rod Kunishige; scottcouchman at yahoo.com
  Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Has anyone researched hood vent designs?
  My gut feeing is the opening needs to be moved back to reduce air
  pressure over the opening.  And that probably depends on speed.
  Ken
        From: Rod Kunishige <rkunishige at hotmail.com>
    To: "scottcouchman at yahoo.com" <scottcouchman at yahoo.com>; Ken Green
  <kenn_green at yahoo.com>
  Cc: "detomaso at server.detomasolist.com"
  <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
    Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2016 10:13 PM
    Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Has anyone researched hood vent designs?
    I really like the idea of boxing the trunk in your design.
    It means moving the support ribs for the hood.
    Can you enlarge the opening by starting closer to the radiator?
    From: Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>
    I think photos of that car were posted a year ago?  I want the car to
    look like a Pantera, not a GT40.
    en
    From: "scottcouchman at yahoo.com" <scottcouchman at yahoo.com>
    You should talk with Tony Ortiz in Arizona. He modified his Pantera
  to
    install front and rear GT40 clips.
  _______________________________________________
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  This is the DeTomaso mailing list, a free and open forum for the
  discussion of issues surrounding all DeTomaso automobiles. This is an
  unmoderated mailing list ...
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-------------- next part --------------
   From Goran's website (http://www.hemipanter.se/#Aerodynamic):
   "My own design front hood. All air passing through radiator is coming
   out here. I made this for my first Pantera. Altrouhgt this on is used
   on Bjorn Carapis 219 mph car.He did not experience any speed front end
   lift."
   Ken Inline image
     __________________________________________________________________

   From: Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com>
   To: James coyne <tecnosound at hotmail.com>; Rod Kunishige
   <rkunishige at hotmail.com>; "scottcouchman at yahoo.com"
   <scottcouchman at yahoo.com>; "detomaso at server.detomasolist.com"
   <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>; Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>
   Sent: Tuesday, August 2, 2016 7:55 AM
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Has anyone researched hood vent designs?
     Okay, let's put our engineering hats on and have some fun
     technical discussion..... it sure beats the discussion over POCA of
     late!
     I think (but readily admit my engineering degree is not in
     aerodynamics!) hood vents and location play a minor part in overall
     aerodynamics.
     Hood vents are a great way to provide additional cooling in traffic,
     but perhaps  limited value at high speed when the front of the hood
     becomes a high pressure area. Now you have opposing forces at play
     and at speed 'x'  the pressure is likely enough to overcome that
     produced by the radiator fans (I imagine that 'x' would not
     be excessively high, perhaps even highway cruising speed). So
     outside air now reverse enters the hood vents or at a minimum
   restricts
     fan flow resulting in air that is forced under the car i.e. back to
     the original Ford design concept. A Gurney lip on the frontal edge
     of hood vents would help create a low pressure area, but I still
     believe the air from the radiators will ultimately be forced under
   the
     car at some speed now x+y.
     As testament to the pressures on the hood Larry Stock told me that
   Mike
     Cooke collapsed an aluminum hood at high speed.
     As alternative thinking, most cars that employ an aerodynamic frontal
     hood vent do so in combination with a full flat underside. I think
   this
     is a critical element in the success of the design and one without
   the
     other is likely non productive. Furthermore most running Pantera's in
     ORR have reported that a front air dam is a key element in preventing
     front end lift at +150mph, again attesting to restricting air flow
     under the car is the most critical element.  I'd go for the front air
     dam in combination with a fully enclosed flat floor/tray as my first
     modifications and leave cutting the front trunk aspect (and the
     ensuing frontal rigidity impact).
     As an a side the popular radiator fan shrouds also become restrictive
     at high speed and require opening up, some have achieved this with
     simple hinged flaps that can freely open as the pressure through the
     radiator increases.
     Julian
       __________________________________________________________________
     From: Ken Green <[1]kenn_green at yahoo.com>
     Sent: Monday, August 1, 2016 10:28 AM
     To: James coyne; Julian Kift; Rod Kunishige;
   [2]scottcouchman at yahoo.com;
     [3]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Has anyone researched hood vent designs?
     Probably more correct to say I intend the car to be able to run well
     over 150.  Not sure if I want to drive that fast on a country road.
   I
     would be a lot more comfortable having fun at lower speeds in an ORR,
     and trying the flying mile type events to see how fast the car can
     actually go.
     The older we get, the longer it takes to heal.
     Ken
       __________________________________________________________________
     From: James coyne <[4]tecnosound at hotmail.com>
     To: Julian Kift <[5]julian_kift at hotmail.com>; Rod Kunishige
     <[6]rkunishige at hotmail.com>; "[7]scottcouchman at yahoo.com"
     <[8]scottcouchman at yahoo.com>; Ken Green <[9]kenn_green at yahoo.com>;
     "[10]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com"
   <[11]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
     Sent: Monday, August 1, 2016 9:00 AM
     Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Has anyone researched hood vent designs?
     I believe it is indeed Ken's intension to run in the 150mph+ classes
   at
     open road events .
       __________________________________________________________________
     From: DeTomaso <[12]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on
   behalf of
     Julian Kift <[13]julian_kift at hotmail.com>
     Sent: Monday, August 1, 2016 7:49 AM
     To: Rod Kunishige; [14]scottcouchman at yahoo.com; Ken Green;
     [15]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Has anyone researched hood vent designs?
     This seems like an awful lot of work for little to no gain, is this a
     dedicated race car that will be running the 150mph+ classes at an
   Open
     Road Race?
     Julian
     ________________________________
     From: DeTomaso <[16]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on
   behalf of
     Ken Green via DeTomaso <[17]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
     Sent: Monday, August 1, 2016 7:00 AM
     To: Rod Kunishige; [18]scottcouchman at yahoo.com
     Cc: [19]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Has anyone researched hood vent designs?
     My gut feeing is the opening needs to be moved back to reduce air
     pressure over the opening.  And that probably depends on speed.
     Ken
           From: Rod Kunishige <[20]rkunishige at hotmail.com>
       To: "[21]scottcouchman at yahoo.com" <[22]scottcouchman at yahoo.com>;
   Ken Green
     <[23]kenn_green at yahoo.com>
     Cc: "[24]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com"
     <[25]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
       Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2016 10:13 PM
       Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Has anyone researched hood vent designs?
       I really like the idea of boxing the trunk in your design.
       It means moving the support ribs for the hood.
       Can you enlarge the opening by starting closer to the radiator?
       From: Ken Green <[26]kenn_green at yahoo.com>
       I think photos of that car were posted a year ago?  I want the car
   to
       look like a Pantera, not a GT40.
       en
       From: "[27]scottcouchman at yahoo.com" <[28]scottcouchman at yahoo.com>
       You should talk with Tony Ortiz in Arizona. He modified his Pantera
     to
       install front and rear GT40 clips.
     _______________________________________________
     Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
     Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
     DeTomaso mailing list
     [29]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     [1][30]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     [2]DeTomaso Info Page
     server.detomasolist.com
     This is the DeTomaso mailing list, a free and open forum for the
     discussion of issues surrounding all DeTomaso automobiles. This is an
     unmoderated mailing list ...
     [3]DeTomaso Info Page
     server.detomasolist.com
     This is the DeTomaso mailing list, a free and open forum for the
     discussion of issues surrounding all DeTomaso automobiles. This is an
     unmoderated mailing list ...
     DeTomaso Info
     Page<[4][31]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso>
     server.detomasolist.com
     This is the DeTomaso mailing list, a free and open forum for the
     discussion of issues surrounding all DeTomaso automobiles. This is an
     unmoderated mailing list ...
     To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
     use the links above.
     Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
   any
     message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
     list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
   archive
     or approve the archiving of list messages.
   References
     1. [32]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     2. [33]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     3. [34]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     4. [35]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
   _______________________________________________
   Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
   Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
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   To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
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   Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
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References

   1. mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com
   2. mailto:scottcouchman at yahoo.com
   3. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   4. mailto:tecnosound at hotmail.com
   5. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
   6. mailto:rkunishige at hotmail.com
   7. mailto:scottcouchman at yahoo.com
   8. mailto:scottcouchman at yahoo.com
   9. mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com
  10. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  11. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  12. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
  13. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
  14. mailto:scottcouchman at yahoo.com
  15. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  16. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
  17. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  18. mailto:scottcouchman at yahoo.com
  19. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  20. mailto:rkunishige at hotmail.com
  21. mailto:scottcouchman at yahoo.com
  22. mailto:scottcouchman at yahoo.com
  23. mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com
  24. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  25. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  26. mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com
  27. mailto:scottcouchman at yahoo.com
  28. mailto:scottcouchman at yahoo.com
  29. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  30. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  31. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  32. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  33. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  34. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  35. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  36. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  37. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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