[DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content
scott black
timepiecepr2 at yahoo.com
Mon Aug 1 14:58:22 EDT 2016
Honda offers one: Honda Worldwide | Motorcycle Picture Book | Dual Clutch Transmission
Scott Black
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Honda Worldwide | Motorcycle Picture Book | Dual Clutch Transmission
Honda Motor Co.,Ltd. Honda Worldwide - Visit the official Honda global web site and find information on all Hond... | |
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TimePiece Public Relations & Marketing Marketing Acceleration www.tprm-usa.com
On Friday, July 29, 2016 9:09 PM, Jeff Cobb <jeffcobb1 at me.com> wrote:
I had a Lamborghini 400 years back and it had a fully synchro on reverse as does my present day Espada.
You can go into reverse with no drama or strong hand pressure while going forward and put those cars into reverse, let up the clutch and slow the car up then to a full back up.
I believe all Lamborghini's had this feature.
So strange and utterly cool.
No find them to grind them. Very elegant shifting.
Jeff Cobb
On Jul 29, 2016, at 4:52 PM, Thomas Törnblom <tipo874 at gmail.com> wrote:
> The 60:s - 70:s Volvo and Scania trucks I drove during my military service (1974/1975) were all synchro mesh. The Volvos had a 4 speed range transmission (1-4/5-8) while the Scanias had a 5 speed split (5 lo/hi)
>
> The 50:s terrain trucks were non synchro, and they had no power steering either.
>
> I'm amazed if current US trucks are non synchro.
>
> My manual shift Audi quattros had some type of synchro on reverse. I believe it was some mechanism that stopped the gears spinning when you put it in reverse, not a full synchro.
>
> The gearbox in the open wheel race cars we were driving on a course used a similar engagement as an MC. It had no synchro and it would just say "clonk" when you shifted. You had to be distinct, otherwise it would grind, but it was very easy to shift. It also had straight cut gears, and it was whining quite loudly.
>
> The MC gearboxes I've seen had all slant cut gears and was quiet, but would "clonk" a bit when shifting.
>
> Thomas
>
>> 29 juli 2016 kl. 21:40 skrev Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com>:
>>
>> Charlie,
>>
>> Yes the older British cars often lack a syncro in 1st (and reverse is
>> not usually a syncro either). Shifting a non syncro requires getting
>> the gears that are to be meshed spinning at roughly the same speed,
>> best achieved via double clutching or knowing what revs to shift at (18
>> wheelers are all non syncro boxes, most truckers can shift without use
>> of a clutch). You could try this in your folks MG-TD, i recommend some
>> distance from their house until you have it down U1F609
>>
>> The main difference in a motorcycle gearbox is it is a "constant mesh"
>> i.e. all the gears are constantly meshed and spinning(no syncro
>> required to spin up the gears). It is also sequential so shifting
>> through the gears in order without ability bypass a gear (other than
>> neutral to second as neutral is half click between first and second).
>>
>> Julian
>> __________________________________________________________________
>>
>> From: Charles McCall <charlesmccall at gmail.com>
>> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2016 11:56 AM
>> To: 'Julian Kift'; 'Peter Menyhart'; 'pantera forum';
>> detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content
>>
>> Julian - educate me if you don't mind.
>>
>>
>> You say that motorcycle gearboxes are non syncromesh.
>>
>>
>> My folks have a 1952 MG-TD that has syncromesh in 2^nd, 3^rd, and 4^th,
>> but not first. When you come to a stop, if you haven't come to a
>> COMPLETE stop it'll crunch when you put it in first. It won't crunch if
>> you put it in second and I was told that this was due to the lack of
>> syncromesh.
>>
>>
>> If this is true, why doesn't my bike crunch when putting it in first
>> while still rolling?
>>
>>
>> From: Julian Kift [mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com]
>> Sent: viernes, 29 de julio de 2016 17:10
>> To: Peter Menyhart; Charles McCall; pantera forum;
>> detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content
>>
>>
>> Charles,
>>
>>
>> I would postulate it is because a motorcycle gearbox is already a "race
>> box", i.e. non syncromesh, dog box with straight cut gears, which is
>> essentially the simplest and lightest gearbox you can get. Shifting
>> without the clutch is fairly universal on race bikes and similar to
>> race cars permitted by the straight cut gear design. Motorcycle
>> clutches are now dry (whereas yours is probably a wet clutch) and much
>> lighter design and I would only use the very lightest
>> clutch pressure on my street bike (Ducati superbike) just to take
>> the pressure off the gears.
>>
>>
>> Julian
>> _____________________________________________________________________
>>
>> From: DeTomaso <[1]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf
>> of Peter Menyhart <[2]pmenyhart at msn.com>
>> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2016 5:29 AM
>> To: Charles McCall; pantera forum
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content
>>
>>
>> Interesting question,
>> when I'm in Germany in september I'll ask my brother.He works in
>> development at BMW Motorcycle and also races vintage Wankel bikes.
>> I think your right,the weight gain is probably too much.
>> Peter
>> check out our website at: [3]www.whitehorseranch.com
>> From: [4]charlesmccall at gmail.com
>> Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 09:45:11 +0200
>> To: [5]detomaso at detomasolist.com
>> Subject: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content
>> Motorcycle ramblings with a question at the end....
>>
>> The weather has been absolutely fantastic here for the past few weeks,
>> so I
>> have been using my motorcycle for my daily commute to and from work.
>> It's
>> recently back on the road after more or less being in storage for 18
>> years.
>> It is true that long term storage isn't good for vehicles - either cars
>> or
>> motorcycles. I filled the tank up with gas and it all ran right on the
>> floor... hoses that had disintegrated with time. Got that repaired.
>>
>> The gas on the floor was mixing with a massive oil leak caused by a
>> gasket
>> on the cam tensioner that dried out and cracked. Got that fixed.
>>
>> I'm glad my motorcycle is air-cooled or I know what would be leaking
>> now!
>> We didn't get off to a good start this year!
>>
>> The motorcycle is a 1982 Suzuki GS650, nothing particularly special but
>> with a lot of sentimental value. I bought it when I was 19 and a
>> college
>> sophomore. I'd never been on a motorcycle in my life - neither as a
>> passenger nor a driver. I walked into the local Suzuki dealer and said
>> "I
>> like that one, I'll buy it!" and paid for it with my visa card, at
>> 19.6%
>> interest. And I wonder why it took me so long to pay off my college
>> loans?
>> ;-)
>>
>> We went to the parking lot and the salesman told me "This is the
>> clutch,
>> here's how you change gears, this is the front brake....have fun!" And
>> I
>> learned how to drive on the way home. Ah, youth!
>>
>> The motorcycle has been all over the place. I went to Cornell
>> University,
>> in upstate NY, and my girlfriend at the time went to Michigan, so it
>> made
>> the trip many times. It's attended Sturgis (despite being a Japanese
>> bike,
>> but I drove it there unlike many of the Harleys!) prowled the streets
>> of
>> Chicago, etc. But it got put into storage when I moved to Europe and
>> took a
>> long time to catch up to me. It recently was made road-worthy and is
>> still
>> wearing US plates, although I'll have to fix that over the next year.
>> It is
>> very difficult and very expensive to insure a vehicle in Europe with US
>> plates. But for those from the US or Canada attending Le Mans Classic -
>> -IT
>> CAN BE DONE!
>>
>> Anyway, my question. The tendency in race cars and sports cars is
>> moving
>> away from a manual transmission to an automatic. I know that isn't
>> quite
>> true but don't really care if there is still technically a clutch or
>> not -
>> if there isn't a clutch pedal inside, then it's an automatic! Why
>> hasn't
>> the same thing happened with motorcycles? Because the shift time on a
>> motorcycle is already so short? Do racers even use the clutch on a race
>> bike? The weight associated with the mechanism is a larger percentage
>> of a
>> light bike as opposed to a car?
>>
>> Just wondering this morning, as it was a nice morning for a ride and as
>> there's no radio my mind went wandering...
>> _______________________________________________
>> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> [6]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> [7]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
>> use the links above.
>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
>> list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
>> or approve the archiving of list
>> messages.
>>
>> References
>>
>> 1. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
>> 2. mailto:pmenyhart at msn.com
>> 3. http://www.whitehorseranch.com/
>> 4. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
>> 5. mailto:detomaso at detomasolist.com
>> 6. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> 7. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>
>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>>
>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
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>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
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-------------- next part --------------
Honda offers one: [1]Honda Worldwide | Motorcycle Picture Book | Dual
Clutch Transmission
Scott Black
Honda Worldwide | Motorcycle Picture Book | Dual Clutch Transmission
Honda Motor Co.,Ltd. Honda Worldwide - Visit the official Honda global
web site and find information on all Hond...
TimePiece Public Relations & Marketing Marketing Acceleration
www.tprm-usa.com
On Friday, July 29, 2016 9:09 PM, Jeff Cobb <jeffcobb1 at me.com> wrote:
I had a Lamborghini 400 years back and it had a fully synchro on
reverse as does my present day Espada.
You can go into reverse with no drama or strong hand pressure while
going forward and put those cars into reverse, let up the clutch and
slow the car up then to a full back up.
I believe all Lamborghini's had this feature.
So strange and utterly cool.
No find them to grind them. Very elegant shifting.
Jeff Cobb
On Jul 29, 2016, at 4:52 PM, Thomas TAP:rnblom <[2]tipo874 at gmail.com>
wrote:
> The 60:s - 70:s Volvo and Scania trucks I drove during my military
service (1974/1975) were all synchro mesh. The Volvos had a 4 speed
range transmission (1-4/5-8) while the Scanias had a 5 speed split (5
lo/hi)
>
> The 50:s terrain trucks were non synchro, and they had no power
steering either.
>
> I'm amazed if current US trucks are non synchro.
>
> My manual shift Audi quattros had some type of synchro on reverse. I
believe it was some mechanism that stopped the gears spinning when you
put it in reverse, not a full synchro.
>
> The gearbox in the open wheel race cars we were driving on a course
used a similar engagement as an MC. It had no synchro and it would just
say "clonk" when you shifted. You had to be distinct, otherwise it
would grind, but it was very easy to shift. It also had straight cut
gears, and it was whining quite loudly.
>
> The MC gearboxes I've seen had all slant cut gears and was quiet, but
would "clonk" a bit when shifting.
>
> Thomas
>
>> 29 juli 2016 kl. 21:40 skrev Julian Kift
<[3]julian_kift at hotmail.com>:
>>
>> Charlie,
>>
>> Yes the older British cars often lack a syncro in 1st (and reverse
is
>> not usually a syncro either). Shifting a non syncro requires
getting
>> the gears that are to be meshed spinning at roughly the same speed,
>> best achieved via double clutching or knowing what revs to shift at
(18
>> wheelers are all non syncro boxes, most truckers can shift without
use
>> of a clutch). You could try this in your folks MG-TD, i recommend
some
>> distance from their house until you have it down U1F609
>>
>> The main difference in a motorcycle gearbox is it is a "constant
mesh"
>> i.e. all the gears are constantly meshed and spinning(no syncro
>> required to spin up the gears). It is also sequential so shifting
>> through the gears in order without ability bypass a gear (other
than
>> neutral to second as neutral is half click between first and
second).
>>
>> Julian
>>
__________________________________________________________________
>>
>> From: Charles McCall <[4]charlesmccall at gmail.com>
>> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2016 11:56 AM
>> To: 'Julian Kift'; 'Peter Menyhart'; 'pantera forum';
>> [5]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content
>>
>> Julian - educate me if you don't mind.
>>
>>
>> You say that motorcycle gearboxes are non syncromesh.
>>
>>
>> My folks have a 1952 MG-TD that has syncromesh in 2^nd, 3^rd, and
4^th,
>> but not first. When you come to a stop, if you haven't come to a
>> COMPLETE stop it'll crunch when you put it in first. It won't
crunch if
>> you put it in second and I was told that this was due to the lack
of
>> syncromesh.
>>
>>
>> If this is true, why doesn't my bike crunch when putting it in
first
>> while still rolling?
>>
>>
>> From: Julian Kift [mailto:[6]julian_kift at hotmail.com]
>> Sent: viernes, 29 de julio de 2016 17:10
>> To: Peter Menyhart; Charles McCall; pantera forum;
>> [7]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content
>>
>>
>> Charles,
>>
>>
>> I would postulate it is because a motorcycle gearbox is already a
"race
>> box", i.e. non syncromesh, dog box with straight cut gears, which
is
>> essentially the simplest and lightest gearbox you can get. Shifting
>> without the clutch is fairly universal on race bikes and similar to
>> race cars permitted by the straight cut gear design. Motorcycle
>> clutches are now dry (whereas yours is probably a wet clutch) and
much
>> lighter design and I would only use the very lightest
>> clutch pressure on my street bike (Ducati superbike) just to take
>> the pressure off the gears.
>>
>>
>> Julian
>>
_____________________________________________________________________
>>
>> From: DeTomaso <[1][8]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on
behalf
>> of Peter Menyhart <[2][9]pmenyhart at msn.com>
>> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2016 5:29 AM
>> To: Charles McCall; pantera forum
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content
>>
>>
>> Interesting question,
>> when I'm in Germany in september I'll ask my brother.He works in
>> development at BMW Motorcycle and also races vintage Wankel bikes.
>> I think your right,the weight gain is probably too much.
>> Peter
>> check out our website at: [3]www.whitehorseranch.com
>> From: [4][10]charlesmccall at gmail.com
>> Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 09:45:11 +0200
>> To: [5][11]detomaso at detomasolist.com
>> Subject: [DeTomaso] Absolutely zero DT content
>> Motorcycle ramblings with a question at the end....
>>
>> The weather has been absolutely fantastic here for the past few
weeks,
>> so I
>> have been using my motorcycle for my daily commute to and from
work.
>> It's
>> recently back on the road after more or less being in storage for
18
>> years.
>> It is true that long term storage isn't good for vehicles - either
cars
>> or
>> motorcycles. I filled the tank up with gas and it all ran right on
the
>> floor... hoses that had disintegrated with time. Got that repaired.
>>
>> The gas on the floor was mixing with a massive oil leak caused by a
>> gasket
>> on the cam tensioner that dried out and cracked. Got that fixed.
>>
>> I'm glad my motorcycle is air-cooled or I know what would be
leaking
>> now!
>> We didn't get off to a good start this year!
>>
>> The motorcycle is a 1982 Suzuki GS650, nothing particularly special
but
>> with a lot of sentimental value. I bought it when I was 19 and a
>> college
>> sophomore. I'd never been on a motorcycle in my life - neither as a
>> passenger nor a driver. I walked into the local Suzuki dealer and
said
>> "I
>> like that one, I'll buy it!" and paid for it with my visa card, at
>> 19.6%
>> interest. And I wonder why it took me so long to pay off my college
>> loans?
>> ;-)
>>
>> We went to the parking lot and the salesman told me "This is the
>> clutch,
>> here's how you change gears, this is the front brake....have fun!"
And
>> I
>> learned how to drive on the way home. Ah, youth!
>>
>> The motorcycle has been all over the place. I went to Cornell
>> University,
>> in upstate NY, and my girlfriend at the time went to Michigan, so
it
>> made
>> the trip many times. It's attended Sturgis (despite being a
Japanese
>> bike,
>> but I drove it there unlike many of the Harleys!) prowled the
streets
>> of
>> Chicago, etc. But it got put into storage when I moved to Europe
and
>> took a
>> long time to catch up to me. It recently was made road-worthy and
is
>> still
>> wearing US plates, although I'll have to fix that over the next
year.
>> It is
>> very difficult and very expensive to insure a vehicle in Europe
with US
>> plates. But for those from the US or Canada attending Le Mans
Classic -
>> -IT
>> CAN BE DONE!
>>
>> Anyway, my question. The tendency in race cars and sports cars is
>> moving
>> away from a manual transmission to an automatic. I know that isn't
>> quite
>> true but don't really care if there is still technically a clutch
or
>> not -
>> if there isn't a clutch pedal inside, then it's an automatic! Why
>> hasn't
>> the same thing happened with motorcycles? Because the shift time on
a
>> motorcycle is already so short? Do racers even use the clutch on a
race
>> bike? The weight associated with the mechanism is a larger
percentage
>> of a
>> light bike as opposed to a car?
>>
>> Just wondering this morning, as it was a nice morning for a ride
and as
>> there's no radio my mind went wandering...
>> _______________________________________________
>> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> [6][12]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> [7][13]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
etc.)
>> use the links above.
>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
any
>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
>> list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
archive
>> or approve the archiving of list
>> messages.
>>
>> References
>>
>> 1. mailto:[14]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
>> 2. mailto:[15]pmenyhart at msn.com
>> 3. [16]http://www.whitehorseranch.com/
>> 4. mailto:[17]charlesmccall at gmail.com
>> 5. mailto:[18]detomaso at detomasolist.com
>> 6. mailto:[19]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> 7. [20]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> [21]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> [22]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>
>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
etc.) use the links above.
>>
>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
or approve the archiving of list messages.
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [23]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> [24]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
use the links above.
>
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
or approve the archiving of list messages.
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
DeTomaso mailing list
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[26]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
use the links above.
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References
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2. mailto:tipo874 at gmail.com
3. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
4. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
5. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
6. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
7. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
8. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
9. mailto:pmenyhart at msn.com
10. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
11. mailto:detomaso at detomasolist.com
12. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
13. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
14. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
15. mailto:pmenyhart at msn.com
16. http://www.whitehorseranch.com/
17. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
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