[DeTomaso] Future of the email list
Ken Green
kenn_green at yahoo.com
Wed Apr 20 14:50:03 EDT 2016
I agree with Will, but can add that PanteraPlace, which I think is a wonderful resource, accepted donations the last time I looked.
Regarding socialism, it has proven over and over again to fail. Read about Argentina, 100 years ago Argentina was headed towards being one of the 3 strongest economies in the world, and then people got voted into office promising to take care of everyone. This has been a terrible failure. It is still being studied to understand how badly Argentina collapsed economically.
I think the best of all worlds is people freely and directly help other people, like on this forum. When you get an organization involved, taking $s from A to provide services to B, it never works well. Socialists won't even consider that their precious welfare state never ends up helping the average citizen.
Further, this dialog is a perfect example of why this email forum is so much better than a bulletin board for at least some things. I can't imagine all the exchanges here would have happened on a bulletin board in this short amount of time.
Ken
From: Will Kooiman <will.kooiman at gmail.com>
To: Douglas Kelm <dakelm at qwest.net>; detomaso at poca.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2016 11:28 AM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Future of the email list
Hi Doug,
I respectfully disagree.
When I bought my Pantera, Michael Frazier and Carter Boyer stopped by and
gave me a free inspection, and plenty of free advice.
My Pantera broke in Little Rock, and Mike Trusty offered to pick up my car
and repair it - for free (naturally I assumed I would buy parts). He
caught me at the airport, so I flew back the next week. I removed the
broken parts, and he repaired it for free. The rear wheel bearings had
fallen apart. I bought lunch, but that's a fraction of the labor and
experience donated by Mike.
My Pantera broke again at the Big Bend Open Road Race. Steve Hawkins put
my car on his flat bed, and I drove his car back. A local guy (previous
owner of my car) offered to fix my car or at least garage it until I could
get it fixed. - for free.
The list goes on and on, with help from Kirby, Gray, John T., etc.
Socialism is when you expect something to be free because you are entitled
to it - like free health care, free iPhones, welfare, but that's not what
I'm describing.
I'm describing a community with common interests where we help one another
and share ideas, experiences, advice, etc. That's what the e-mail list
represents to me, and it was one of the reasons I chose a Pantera over a
Ferrari.
--
Will
On 4/20/16 2:07 PM, "Douglas Kelm" <dakelm at qwest.net> wrote:
>WHOA!!!!!!! Slow down there Willy boy! There's so many misstatements of
>facts and logical inconsistencies in #5, I don't know where to start!
>Outside of sunsets on the beach (a PUBLIC beach, that is), the air you
>breath and moonlight walks with your sweetie, few things in life are free.
>And I'm willing (no pun intended) to bet your sweetie isn't exactly free
>either! "Once you have to pay for it, it either isn't enjoyable or you
>wouldn't pay for it, even if it's cheap." WTF does that even mean?!!!!!
>You've never paid for anything that was enjoyable? Twitter? Don't want it
>at
>any price. Yahoo groups? Am a member of several and WOULD pay if required.
>Youtube? Use it all the time, but could live without it if I'd never
>discovered it. All the preceding are ad based revenue generators, much
>like
>newspapers and magazines, both of which could survive without subscription
>income. They don't NEED to charge YOU anything 'cause they're charging
>SOMEBODY ELSE! #6: If you willing to pay for something that others enjoy
>for
>free, that's called charity, and it's a good thing which all (or most) of
>us
>support in one form or another, as long as it's not forced upon us (note
>to
>all the "Social Democrats" lurking out there!).
>
>Doug
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of Will
>Kooiman
>Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2016 6:35 AM
>To: detomaso at poca.com
>Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Future of the email list
>
>My points.
>
>
>5. I strongly disagree that nothing should be free. Some of the best
>things in life are free. Once you have to pay for it, it either isn¹t
>enjoyable or you wouldn¹t pay for it, even if it¹s cheap. Would you join
>Facebook if you had to pay $20? What about Twitter, yahoo groups,
>youtube?
>How many of us have watched the engine masters videos? Would you pay per
>view? How many of us download free apps, but won¹t pay $1 for the same
>type
>of app that might be better?
>
>6. Of course, I understand that the mail list, the website, Profiles,
>etc.
>costs money to run, and that¹s why I¹m a POCA member - partly for
>Profiles +
>the newsletter, but also to help support the community.
>
>Will.
>
>
>
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I agree with Will, but can add that PanteraPlace, which I think is a
wonderful resource, accepted donations the last time I looked.
Regarding socialism, it has proven over and over again to fail. Read
about Argentina, 100 years ago Argentina was headed towards being one
of the 3 strongest economies in the world, and then people got voted
into office promising to take care of everyone. This has been a
terrible failure. It is still being studied to understand how badly
Argentina collapsed economically.
I think the best of all worlds is people freely and directly help other
people, like on this forum. When you get an organization involved,
taking $s from A to provide services to B, it never works well.
Socialists won't even consider that their precious welfare state never
ends up helping the average citizen.
Further, this dialog is a perfect example of why this email forum is so
much better than a bulletin board for at least some things. I can't
imagine all the exchanges here would have happened on a bulletin board
in this short amount of time.
Ken
__________________________________________________________________
From: Will Kooiman <will.kooiman at gmail.com>
To: Douglas Kelm <dakelm at qwest.net>; detomaso at poca.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2016 11:28 AM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Future of the email list
Hi Doug,
I respectfully disagree.
When I bought my Pantera, Michael Frazier and Carter Boyer stopped by
and
gave me a free inspection, and plenty of free advice.
My Pantera broke in Little Rock, and Mike Trusty offered to pick up my
car
and repair it - for free (naturally I assumed I would buy parts). He
caught me at the airport, so I flew back the next week. I removed the
broken parts, and he repaired it for free. The rear wheel bearings had
fallen apart. I bought lunch, but that's a fraction of the labor and
experience donated by Mike.
My Pantera broke again at the Big Bend Open Road Race. Steve Hawkins
put
my car on his flat bed, and I drove his car back. A local guy
(previous
owner of my car) offered to fix my car or at least garage it until I
could
get it fixed. - for free.
The list goes on and on, with help from Kirby, Gray, John T., etc.
Socialism is when you expect something to be free because you are
entitled
to it - like free health care, free iPhones, welfare, but that's not
what
I'm describing.
I'm describing a community with common interests where we help one
another
and share ideas, experiences, advice, etc. That's what the e-mail list
represents to me, and it was one of the reasons I chose a Pantera over
a
Ferrari.
--
Will
On 4/20/16 2:07 PM, "Douglas Kelm" <[1]dakelm at qwest.net> wrote:
>WHOA!!!!!!! Slow down there Willy boy! There's so many misstatements
of
>facts and logical inconsistencies in #5, I don't know where to start!
>Outside of sunsets on the beach (a PUBLIC beach, that is), the air you
>breath and moonlight walks with your sweetie, few things in life are
free.
>And I'm willing (no pun intended) to bet your sweetie isn't exactly
free
>either! "Once you have to pay for it, it either isn't enjoyable or you
>wouldn't pay for it, even if it's cheap." WTF does that even
mean?!!!!!
>You've never paid for anything that was enjoyable? Twitter? Don't want
it
>at
>any price. Yahoo groups? Am a member of several and WOULD pay if
required.
>Youtube? Use it all the time, but could live without it if I'd never
>discovered it. All the preceding are ad based revenue generators, much
>like
>newspapers and magazines, both of which could survive without
subscription
>income. They don't NEED to charge YOU anything 'cause they're charging
>SOMEBODY ELSE! #6: If you willing to pay for something that others
enjoy
>for
>free, that's called charity, and it's a good thing which all (or most)
of
>us
>support in one form or another, as long as it's not forced upon us
(note
>to
>all the "Social Democrats" lurking out there!).
>
>Doug
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: DeTomaso [mailto:[2]detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of Will
>Kooiman
>Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2016 6:35 AM
>To: [3]detomaso at poca.com
>Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Future of the email list
>
>My points.
>
>
>5. I strongly disagree that nothing should be free. Some of the best
>things in life are free. Once you have to pay for it, it either
isnA^1t
>enjoyable or you wouldnA^1t pay for it, even if itA^1s cheap. Would
you join
>Facebook if you had to pay $20? What about Twitter, yahoo groups,
>youtube?
>How many of us have watched the engine masters videos? Would you pay
per
>view? How many of us download free apps, but wonA^1t pay $1 for the
same
>type
>of app that might be better?
>
>6. Of course, I understand that the mail list, the website, Profiles,
>etc.
>costs money to run, and thatA^1s why IA^1m a POCA member - partly for
>Profiles +
>the newsletter, but also to help support the community.
>
>Will.
>
>
>
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