[DeTomaso] Email Forum Opportunity
Michael Shortt
michaelsavga at gmail.com
Wed Apr 20 08:07:06 EDT 2016
Thank you for techincally explaining how it works in detail, I'm sure that
your educational efforts may have helped illustrate why the email. Forum
system is flawed.
You are incorrect that I do not speaking from a base of knowledge, given
the very basic concepts that seem beyond comprehension on the forum, I was
not about to attempt what you wrote, I could not have done it as eloquently.
Your last paragraph indicating the web based forum is superior to the
email forum is validation enough.
Moreover, the thread's purpose was to maintain what is the hallmark of this
BOD to keep everyone informed and not operate secretly. The primary
purpose was to see if there was a member who wanted to take the forum over
and maintain it independently ( just as it started out). The email forum
was not originally a POCA product.
Finding a qualified and willing person was accomplished early, so all the
hate fill vitriol and insults were superfluous rants from those who either
did not read through the 5 separate announcements that nothing would change
except the URL address or from those hellbent on demonstrating petfectly
why the public email forum is a horrible representation of the club.
It is the antithesis of a recruiting tool to attract new members.
The new website will be a far better tool to attract new members, and much
of that information is from the old website.
Nobody has disparaged the old website, it was built by a dedicated group of
people who have worked on it for years and it served the club well. They
should be commended for their service.
We are working very hard to move the club forward using the most current
advanced technology possible that can be used by the average member with
average computer skills.
Just as music delivery progressed, wax cylinders gave way to vinyl albums
which turned into 8 track tapes. Then cassettes evolved into CDs and DVDs
until the ipod and itunes turned it all digital.
Change is hard to accept, even for me, I miss albums and cover art. It was
part of the experience, so was holding it and then watching it rotate in
neverending circles.
Either we grow using technology to attract the new, younger demo who are
buying the cars to become members ( being sold by older members who are
leaving the club, over 100 of them in the last 18 months) or we die as an
ongoing club.
Nobody wants to be in club still listening to 8 track tapes.
That is the very real position the club is in, either adapt or cease to
exist. Business as usual is not an option when the trend is a downward
spiral.
If doing so draws the ire of some hanging desperately onto the past, that
is understandable, we all have a limited tolerance for change, some higher
than others.
I shall endeavour to work to improve the offerings through all means and
tools necessary to make the club a desirable addition to the toolkit of any
owner of a DeTomaso car or a fan thereof.
The BOD is dedicated to serve the best interests of the membership and
currently that includes an updated website with more features and benefits.
That website is incompatible with the existing forum, as was stated in the
very first email, there was never any effort to take anything away, only to
find a new home for it.
That was accomplished.
Michael Shortt
On Apr 20, 2016 2:04 AM, "msm at portata.com" <msm at portata.com> wrote:
> Michael is not speaking from a point of knowledge, so let me help shine
> some light on the dark...
>
>
> All web sites are under constant attack from domestic and international
> sources (China, Russia, the various -stans, etc.) These are mostly
> "script kiddies" who are using computers to probe the various access
> points and trying to guess passwords. That's just life in the modern
> world.
>
> You can see attacks in real-time here: http://map.norsecorp.com/#/ This
> is only a fraction of them.
>
> I get about 30 to 40 notifications of hack attempts per day on the POCA
> site. That's pretty typical. I block out the more egregious sources.
> For the techies: I blacklist the IP if in US/Europe or the /16 if from a
> country without POCA members.
>
> Asa Jay set up a very good system for blocking the hackers and for
> scanning files for viruses. It is very effective. I do this for a
> living, so I know about such things. There have been no break ins or
> viruses since he set that you a few years ago.
>
> The big problem that any club has with web sites or
> newsletters/magazines is getting people to write and contribute
> material. The work on the site itself or the layout of the monthly
> newsletter is relatively small. Changing web site technology or service
> providers does not address the root cause of problems.
>
>
> Some technical background on the email bounces and the account
> shutdowns...
>
> When you send an email from your PC, the email does not go directly to
> your recipient's PC. It goes to a server near you and then is handed
> off to another server and to another as it winds its way to the
> recipient much like the mail in the pony express. Your email may go
> through 20 or 30 servers as it crosses the county. These servers are
> owned and operated by various communications companies such as Verizon,
> Sprint, AT&T, and AOL. Even if you are a AT&T subscriber at home, your
> email may travel across servers owned by Verizon, AOL, etc.
>
> Each server along the way examines the mail and makes a guess as to
> whether is it spam or not. If the mail has a lot of recipients or
> attachments or if it has trigger words like Viagra, it is more likely to
> be tagged as spam. If you send a large number of emails every day, you
> may be tagged as a known spammer. If an email is tagged as spam, it may
> be bounced back to the sender as undeliverable.
>
> Each communication company has its own method for guessing as to whether
> email is spam or not. AOL servers tend to be more sensitive than
> others. To further complicate things, the sensitivity of the servers
> varies from day to day. Some days, they tend to reject more emails than
> usual.
>
> When you send an email to the POCA email forum (this one), your message
> travels through a few servers on its way to the POCA server in Arizona.
> The POCA server then sends a copy of your email to a few hundred people
> around the US and overseas. Each of those copies travels through
> various servers on the way to the recipients. This is where the trouble
> starts. As the POCA server sends out a large number of emails, it is
> more likely to be tagged as a spammer and have some emails bounced back.
> What has been happening lately is that certain servers (mostly AOL, I
> think) have been rejecting emails. The POCA server gets responses back
> that they email is undeliverable. After a number of failed attempts to
> reach a particular person, it automatically unsubscribes them.
>
> There is not much we can do about that as we cannot control those
> servers. We help a bit by rejecting incoming messages with too many
> recipients or large attachments which reduces the likelihood that the
> outbound messages will be bounced back and people unsubscribed.
>
> A better way of handling this is to use a web-based forum instead of an
> email-based forum, however various attempts with web forums on the POCA
> site and on Yahoo have proven less popular and have died out. People
> love their email.
>
>
>
> ------ Original Message ------
> From: "Asa Jay Laughton" <asajay at asajay.com>
> To: "Michael Shortt" <michaelsavga at gmail.com>
> Cc: "detomaso at poca.com" <detomaso at poca.com>
> Sent: 4/19/2016 7:42:34 PM
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Email Forum Opportunity
>
> >WTF are you talking about Michael? I don't think you have a deep
> >understanding of the server or it's security.
> >
> >The forum is constantly failing and kicking people off? List members
> >Infecting the server weekly? WTF are you talking about? The last time
> >that I recall the server got hacked was over three years ago. Are
> >attempts made? Oh you betcha, but so are attempts made to just about
> >-any- server on the internet but they don't come through the list.
> >
> >If a member -is- causing a problem, it needs to be figured out. But
> >I'll tell you right now the POCA server is NOT the server bouncing
> >emails causing mass unsubscribes. It's a server down the line at
> >GoDaddy rejecting the outgoing traffic for EITHER "spam" or "virus"
> >attachments. Unfortunately they don't tell us which one, so we assume
> >a bad attachment since the "let-through" has been pretty flawless for
> >years. Someone should troubleshoot that.
> >
> >Magnet for spam and robots? Yes, any website out there, especially
> >ones hosting forums are targets. The new POCA forum will be a target
> >too. But let me ask you, when was the last time this email list sent
> >you spam? When?
> >We turned ON attachments a while ago to help share more stuff. Prior
> >to turning ON attachments, the forum never, ever, had a problem and it
> >is the primary reason Mailman encourages -not- to turn on attachments.
> >
> >Now with that said, parsing all incoming mail through something like a
> >Barracuda spam and virus firewall server would probably catch those
> >virus attachments -before- they got to the POCA server.
> >
> >And the search engine bots are crawling it all the time looking for
> >updates so they can return meaningful results when searched.
> >
> >It keeps three people busy every day? Really? The busiest I get is
> >going to read the emails. I've not done any serious troubleshooting on
> >the server for months. I could probably figure out what's causing the
> >problem but thought it would be a good challenge for someone else to
> >troubleshoot in order to help them learn. But that point is moot since
> >you'll be standing up a new forum anyway. NOT TO MENTION THE FACT THAT
> >I'VE BEEN LOCKED OUT OF THE SERVER FOR WHO KNOWS HOW LONG AND ALL
> >ACCESS PASSWORDS HAVE BEEN CHANGED. I couldn't be helping POCA even if
> >I was asked to. Working on it daily? Hardly.
> >
> >And finally, you're making the new service sound like Fort Knox. I
> >seriously doubt that; I've seen that story before. Better security
> >than now? Most likely and I'm sure it's something to look forward to,
> >but you're trying to make if sound nuclear-proof.
> >
> >I've become sick of your grandiose posturing making it sound like the
> >present web site is constantly being hacked and providing nothing but a
> >security problem to the members and that it's taking constant work to
> >keep it from causing harm, or that this email forum is antiquated and a
> >dying dinosaur. It must be, otherwise why would there still be
> >thousands of Mailman email lists still out there and the software still
> >updated?
> >
> >...or that the only way to get new members is to restrict most content
> >to locked away member only access areas. Good luck with that but I
> >guess it's the new paradigm.
> >
> >Oh, and Corey was banned from the PI forum (did you miss that part),
> >not this one. Because the PI forum is moderated and sometimes the
> >forum moderator manages to get pissed off at subscribers.
> >
> >I was on-board with the move to a new web site and even on board to
> >POCA paying a reasonable amount to have it managed. But now your
> >verbal posturing is just pissing me off.
> >
> >For those interested, I could probably stand up a replacement site with
> >Mailman (brand new) in less than 24 hours.
> >
> >Asa Jay
> >
> >Sent using Jedi Mind Tricks
> >
> >Michael Shortt <michaelsavga at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>Nobody has been banned from the forum.
> >>
> >>The forum is constantly failing and kicking people out, it is a magnet
> >>for
> >>spam and robots.
> >>It also spreads viruses faster than $10 hooker, because there are
> >>several
> >>of you that use it that do not have proper software and you guys
> >>infect the
> >>server and everybody else weekly.
> >>
> >>It literally keeps three people (Gerry Womack, Asa Jay and Ed Mendez)
> >>busy
> >>every day to keep it operational, we all owe them a huge debt for
> >>their
> >>service.
> >>
> >>The new website is pretty hack proof, has awesome security and best of
> >>all,
> >>a 24 hour tech support line.
> >>
> >>It will be a problem for somebody else now.
> >>
> >>We hope you visit the new forum.
> >>
> >>Michael
> >> On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 6:23 PM, Corey Price
> >><[1]coreyjprice at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> Since I hadA my membership privileges removed from the PI forum
> >>
> >> ???
> >> Jeff
> >>
> >>References
> >>
> >> 1. mailto:coreyjprice at gmail.com
> >>
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>
> >>Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >>Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> >>DeTomaso mailing list
> >>DeTomaso at poca.com
> >>http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> >>
> >>To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> >>use
> >>the links above.
> >>
> >> Nobody has been banned from the forum.
> >>
> >> The forum is constantly failing and kicking people out, it is a
> >>magnet
> >> for spam and robots.
> >> It also spreads viruses faster than $10 hooker, because there are
> >> several of you that use it that do not have proper software and you
> >> guys infect the server and everybody else weekly.
> >>
> >> It literally keeps three people (Gerry Womack, Asa Jay and Ed
> >>Mendez)
> >> busy every day to keep it operational, we all owe them a huge debt
> >>for
> >> their service.
> >>
> >> The new website is pretty hack proof, has awesome security and best
> >>of
> >> all, a 24 hour tech support line.
> >>
> >> It will be a problem for somebody else now.
> >>
> >> We hope you visit the new forum.
> >>
> >> Michael
> >>
> >> A A On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 6:23 PM, Corey Price
> >> <[1][1]coreyjprice at gmail.com>
> >> A A wrote:
> >> A A Since I hadA my membership privileges removed from the PI
> >>forum
> >> A A ???
> >> A A Jeff
> >> References
> >> A A 1. mailto:[2]coreyjprice at gmail.com
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> >> DeTomaso mailing list
> >> [3]DeTomaso at poca.com
> >> [4]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> >> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
> >>etc.)
> >> use the links above.
> >>
> >>References
> >>
> >> 1. mailto:coreyjprice at gmail.com
> >> 2. mailto:coreyjprice at gmail.com
> >> 3. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> >> 4. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> >>
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>
> >>Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >>Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> >>DeTomaso mailing list
> >>DeTomaso at poca.com
> >>http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> >>
> >>To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> >>use the links above.
-------------- next part --------------
Thank you for techincally explaining how it works in detail, I'm sure
that your educational efforts may have helped illustrate why the email.
Forum system is flawed.
You are incorrect that I do not speaking from a base of knowledge,
given the veryA basic concepts that seem beyond comprehension on the
forum, I was not about to attempt what you wrote, I could not have done
it as eloquently.
Your last paragraph indicatingA the web based forum is superior to the
email forum is validation enough.
Moreover, the thread's purpose was to maintain what is the hallmark of
this BOD to keep everyone informed and not operate secretly.A The
primary purpose was to see if there was a member who wanted to take the
forum over and maintain it independently ( just as it started out). The
email forum was not originally a POCA product.
Finding a qualified and willing person was accomplished early, so all
the hate fill vitriol and insults were superfluous rants from those who
either did not read through the 5 separate announcements that nothing
would change except the URL address or from those hellbent on
demonstrating petfectly why the public email forum is a horrible
representation of the club.
It is the antithesis of a recruiting tool to attract new members.
The new website will be a far better tool to attract new members, and
much of that information is from the old website.
Nobody has disparaged the old website, it was built by a dedicated
group of people who have worked on it for years and it served the club
well.A They should be commended for their service.
We are working very hard to move the club forward using the most
current advancedA technology possible that can be used by the average
member with average computer skills.
Just as music delivery progressed, wax cylinders gave way to vinyl
albums which turned into 8 track tapes. Then cassettes evolved into CDs
and DVDs until the ipod and itunes turned it all digital.
Change is hard to accept, even for me, I miss albums and cover art. It
was part of the experience, so was holding it and then watching it
rotate in neverending circles.
Either we grow using technology to attract the new, younger demo who
are buying the cars to become members ( being sold by older members who
are leaving the club, over 100 of them in the last 18 months) or we die
as an ongoing club.
Nobody wants to be in club still listening to 8 track tapes.
That is the very real position the club is in, either adapt or cease to
exist.A Business as usual is not an option when the trend is a
downward spiral.
If doing so draws the ire of some hanging desperately onto the past,
that is understandable, we all have a limited tolerance for change,
some higher than others.
I shall endeavour to work to improve the offerings through all means
and tools necessary to make the club a desirable addition to the
toolkit of any owner of a DeTomaso car or a fan thereof.
The BOD is dedicated to serve the best interests of the membership and
currently that includes an updated website with more features and
benefits. That website is incompatible with the existing forum, as was
stated in the very first email, there was never any effort to take
anything away, only to find a new home for it.
That was accomplished.
Michael Shortt
On Apr 20, 2016 2:04 AM, "[1]msm at portata.com" <[2]msm at portata.com>
wrote:
Michael is not speaking from a point of knowledge, so let me help
shine
some light on the dark...
All web sites are under constant attack from domestic and
international
sources (China, Russia, the various -stans, etc.)A These are mostly
"script kiddies" who are using computers to probe the various access
points and trying to guess passwords.A That's just life in the
modern
world.
You can see attacks in real-time here:
[3]http://map.norsecorp.com/#/A This
is only a fraction of them.
I get about 30 to 40 notifications of hack attempts per day on the
POCA
site.A That's pretty typical.A I block out the more egregious
sources.
For the techies: I blacklist the IP if in US/Europe or the /16 if
from a
country without POCA members.
Asa Jay set up a very good system for blocking the hackers and for
scanning files for viruses.A It is very effective.A I do this for
a
living, so I know about such things.A There have been no break ins
or
viruses since he set that you a few years ago.
The big problem that any club has with web sites or
newsletters/magazines is getting people to write and contribute
material.A The work on the site itself or the layout of the monthly
newsletter is relatively small.A Changing web site technology or
service
providers does not address the root cause of problems.
Some technical background on the email bounces and the account
shutdowns...
When you send an email from your PC, the email does not go directly
to
your recipient's PC.A It goes to a server near you and then is
handed
off to another server and to another as it winds its way to the
recipient much like the mail in the pony express.A Your email may
go
through 20 or 30 servers as it crosses the county.A These servers
are
owned and operated by various communications companies such as
Verizon,
Sprint, AT&T, and AOL.A Even if you are a AT&T subscriber at home,
your
email may travel across servers owned by Verizon, AOL, etc.
Each server along the way examines the mail and makes a guess as to
whether is it spam or not.A If the mail has a lot of recipients or
attachments or if it has trigger words like Viagra, it is more
likely to
be tagged as spam.A If you send a large number of emails every day,
you
may be tagged as a known spammer.A If an email is tagged as spam,
it may
be bounced back to the sender as undeliverable.
Each communication company has its own method for guessing as to
whether
email is spam or not.A AOL servers tend to be more sensitive than
others.A To further complicate things, the sensitivity of the
servers
varies from day to day.A Some days, they tend to reject more emails
than
usual.
When you send an email to the POCA email forum (this one), your
message
travels through a few servers on its way to the POCA server in
Arizona.
The POCA server then sends a copy of your email to a few hundred
people
around the US and overseas.A Each of those copies travels through
various servers on the way to the recipients.A This is where the
trouble
starts.A As the POCA server sends out a large number of emails, it
is
more likely to be tagged as a spammer and have some emails bounced
back.
A What has been happening lately is that certain servers (mostly
AOL, I
think) have been rejecting emails.A The POCA server gets responses
back
that they email is undeliverable.A After a number of failed
attempts to
reach a particular person, it automatically unsubscribes them.
There is not much we can do about that as we cannot control those
servers.A We help a bit by rejecting incoming messages with too
many
recipients or large attachments which reduces the likelihood that
the
outbound messages will be bounced back and people unsubscribed.
A better way of handling this is to use a web-based forum instead of
an
email-based forum, however various attempts with web forums on the
POCA
site and on Yahoo have proven less popular and have died out.A
People
love their email.
------ Original Message ------
From: "Asa Jay Laughton" <[4]asajay at asajay.com>
To: "Michael Shortt" <[5]michaelsavga at gmail.com>
Cc: "[6]detomaso at poca.com" <[7]detomaso at poca.com>
Sent: 4/19/2016 7:42:34 PM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Email Forum Opportunity
>WTF are you talking about Michael?A I don't think you have a deep
>understanding of the server or it's security.
>
>TheA forum is constantly failing and kicking people off?A List
members
>Infecting the server weekly?A WTF are you talking about?A The
last time
>that I recall the server got hacked was over three years ago.A Are
>attempts made?A Oh you betcha, but so are attempts made to just
about
>-any- server on the internet but they don't come through the list.
>
>If a member -is- causing a problem, it needs to be figured out.A
But
>I'll tell you right now the POCA server is NOT the server bouncing
>emails causing mass unsubscribes.A It's a server down the line at
>GoDaddy rejecting the outgoing traffic for EITHER "spam" or "virus"
>attachments.A Unfortunately they don't tell us which one, so we
assume
>a bad attachment since the "let-through" has been pretty flawless
for
>years.A Someone should troubleshoot that.
>
>Magnet for spam and robots?A Yes, any website out there,
especially
>ones hosting forums are targets.A The new POCA forum will be a
target
>too.A But let me ask you, when was the last time this email list
sent
>you spam?A When?
>We turned ON attachments a while ago to help share more stuff.A
Prior
>to turning ON attachments, the forum never, ever, had a problem and
it
>is the primary reason Mailman encourages -not- to turn on
attachments.
>
>Now with that said, parsing all incoming mail through something
like a
>Barracuda spam and virus firewall server would probably catch those
>virus attachments -before- they got to the POCA server.
>
>And the search engine bots are crawling it all the time looking for
>updates so they can return meaningful results when searched.
>
>It keeps three people busy every day?A Really?A The busiest I get
is
>going to read the emails.A I've not done any serious
troubleshooting on
>the server for months.A I could probably figure out what's causing
the
>problem but thought it would be a good challenge for someone else
to
>troubleshoot in order to help them learn.A But that point is moot
since
>you'll be standing up a new forum anyway. NOT TO MENTION THE FACT
THAT
>I'VE BEEN LOCKED OUT OF THE SERVER FOR WHO KNOWS HOW LONG AND ALL
>ACCESS PASSWORDS HAVE BEEN CHANGED.A I couldn't be helping POCA
even if
>I was asked to.A Working on it daily?A Hardly.
>
>And finally, you're making the new service sound like Fort Knox.A
I
>seriously doubt that; I've seen that story before.A Better
security
>than now?A Most likely and I'm sure it's something to look forward
to,
>but you're trying to make if sound nuclear-proof.
>
>I've become sick of your grandiose posturing making it sound like
the
>present web site is constantly being hacked and providing nothing
but a
>security problem to the members and that it's taking constant work
to
>keep it from causing harm, or that this email forum is antiquated
and a
>dying dinosaur.A It must be, otherwise why would there still be
>thousands of Mailman email lists still out there and the software
still
>updated?
>
>...or that the only way to get new members is to restrict most
content
>to locked away member only access areas.A Good luck with that but
I
>guess it's the new paradigm.
>
>Oh, and Corey was banned from the PI forum (did you miss that
part),
>not this one.A A Because the PI forum is moderated and sometimes
the
>forum moderator manages to get pissed off at subscribers.
>
>I was on-board with the move to a new web site and even on board to
>POCA paying a reasonable amount to have it managed.A But now your
>verbal posturing is just pissing me off.
>
>For those interested, I could probably stand up a replacement site
with
>Mailman (brand new) in less than 24 hours.
>
>AsaA Jay
>
>Sent using Jedi Mind Tricks
>
>Michael Shortt <[8]michaelsavga at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Nobody has been banned from the forum.
>>
>>The forum is constantly failing and kicking people out, it is a
magnet
>>for
>>spam and robots.
>>It also spreads viruses faster than $10 hooker, because there are
>>several
>>of you that use it that do not have proper software and you guys
>>infect the
>>server and everybody else weekly.
>>
>>It literally keeps three people (Gerry Womack, Asa Jay and Ed
Mendez)
>>busy
>>every day to keep it operational, we all owe them a huge debt for
>>their
>>service.
>>
>>The new website is pretty hack proof, has awesome security and
best of
>>all,
>>a 24 hour tech support line.
>>
>>It will be a problem for somebody else now.
>>
>>We hope you visit the new forum.
>>
>>Michael
>>A A On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 6:23 PM, Corey Price
>><[1][9]coreyjprice at gmail.com>
>>A A wrote:
>>
>>A A Since I hadA my membership privileges removed from the PI
forum
>>
>>A A ???
>>A A Jeff
>>
>>References
>>
>>A A 1. mailto:[10]coreyjprice at gmail.com
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>
>>Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>>DeTomaso mailing list
>>[11]DeTomaso at poca.com
>>[12]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
>>To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
etc.)
>>use
>>the links above.
>>
>>A A Nobody has been banned from the forum.
>>
>>A A The forum is constantly failing and kicking people out, it
is a
>>magnet
>>A A for spam and robots.
>>A A It also spreads viruses faster than $10 hooker, because
there are
>>A A several of you that use it that do not have proper software
and you
>>A A guys infect the server and everybody else weekly.
>>
>>A A It literally keeps three people (Gerry Womack, Asa Jay and
Ed
>>Mendez)
>>A A busy every day to keep it operational, we all owe them a
huge debt
>>for
>>A A their service.
>>
>>A A The new website is pretty hack proof, has awesome security
and best
>>of
>>A A all, a 24 hour tech support line.
>>
>>A A It will be a problem for somebody else now.
>>
>>A A We hope you visit the new forum.
>>
>>A A Michael
>>
>>A A AA A On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 6:23 PM, Corey Price
>>A A <[1][1][13]coreyjprice at gmail.com>
>>A A AA A wrote:
>>A A AA A Since I hadA my membership privileges removed from the
PI
>>forum
>>A A AA A ???
>>A A AA A Jeff
>>A A References
>>A A A A 1. mailto:[2][14]coreyjprice at gmail.com
>>A A _______________________________________________
>>A A Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
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>>A A To manage your subscription (change email address,
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>>etc.)
>>A A use the links above.
>>
>>References
>>
>>A A 1. mailto:[17]coreyjprice at gmail.com
>>A A 2. mailto:[18]coreyjprice at gmail.com
>>A A 3. mailto:[19]DeTomaso at poca.com
>>A A 4. [20]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
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>>
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References
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17. mailto:coreyjprice at gmail.com
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