[DeTomaso] Something is so wrong with this
Effie Richards
erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com
Fri Sep 18 21:51:08 EDT 2015
Larry and Terry, I never learned how to fix anything in my car! I just want a reliable car to get me where I need to go but I totally depend on my car guy husband, Robert for the rest! Now, I must say I'm the techie in the family n take care of remotes, fax, Internet, etc. I got Robert an iPhone so he can learn texting, email, Internet, etcetera but he still checks messages in his phone by dialing •86 & no other thing in it! Yet he almost did our whole house remodel! Luckily, each of one's strengths is the others not so much so it works out perfectly!
I can definitely do all his typing! Any time, he can just dictate!
Sent from Effie's iPhone
> On Sep 18, 2015, at 5:50 PM, Bill Lewis <lotus0005 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Or, on the old Chevies - raising the hood to jimmy the shifters to get it to shift from inside the car! ---BILL L
>
> ________________________________________
> From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at poca.com> on behalf of Larry - Ohio Time <Larry at ohiotimecorp.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2015 3:06 PM
> To: 'Himes, Terry (397C)'; 'Asa Jay Laughton'; detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Something is so wrong with this
>
> Not just woman but everyone Terry. 90% of the young people know more about there smart phones then there cars. I am looked at as a nut case (not too far off track) when I look under the hood and check my oil when getting gas. When was the last time you saw someone do that?
>
> BUT we are the group of people who grew up HAVING to know how to fiddle with cars, because you had too. If you did not learn when you had to put a screw driver in a carb to open the choke to start a motor, you were stuck. I still remember as a very young child my mom jumping the solenoid on a starter of an old Chevy station wagon to get us home from shopping. She cursed my dad the whole time. It started, we got home.
>
> Maybe cars are just too well made.....not what I drive.
>
> Larry (have to know how things work) - Cleveland
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of Himes, Terry (397C)
> Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2015 12:09 AM
> To: Asa Jay Laughton; detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Something is so wrong with this
>
> Don't flame me, but I think the car companies saw a growing market for women car buyers. A majority (not all) just want to get from
> point A to point B and look good. If it breaks, someone should come and fix it.
>
> I taught my daughter how to do all the basic maintenance stuff. And she can (and does) do it. But somehow, built into her
> DNA is the capability to change her shoes, comb her hair, put on makeup and text 3 friends… all while sitting at a stop light!! ;-))
>
>
>
> "Sometimes I think the surest signs that intelligent life
> exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried
> to contact us!"
>
> Terry W. Himes
> JPL Jet Propulsion Laboratory
> InSight Sequence Team Lead
> Rosetta/MEX Sequence Team Lead
> Phone: (818) 393-6261
> Cell: (818) 653-8213
> Fax: (818) 393-3147
> thimes at jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov>
> 🇺🇸
>
> From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at poca.com<mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com>> on behalf of Asa Jay Laughton <asajay at asajay.com<mailto:asajay at asajay.com>>
> Date: Tuesday, September 15, 2015 8:51 PM
> To: POCA <detomaso at poca.com<mailto:detomaso at poca.com>>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Something is so wrong with this
>
> It's all part of the dumbing down of the consumer. It's like Microsoft
> Windows 8 (or 10 for that matter), they think they know how it all
> should be done and you don't need to worry about the details.
>
> So in one of these dumbed down cars that only have idiot gauges, the
> basic user feels like everything is good. And in the case of the oil
> temperature thing mentioned earlier, it's all good...
>
> ... until something goes wrong that the predictive software can't
> account for and the whole thing pukes and you end up with a smokin' heap
> of aluminum attached to engine mounts.
>
> Well... at least the gauges "look" really cool.
> Asa Jay
>
> Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
> & Shelley Marie
> Spokane, WA
> ******************************
> http://www.racingagainstautism.com
> http://www.teampanteraracing.com
> http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism
>
>
> On 9/15/2015 7:57 PM, Will Kooiman wrote:
> It isn¹t the engineer¹s fault. They design things. That¹s what they do.
>
> My 1993 Cobra had the same type of idiot gauges. The oil pressure gauge
> slowly went to slightly higher than midway, and it stayed there. That¹s
>
> what most people expect.
>
> If I recall correctly, they really were called idiot gauges. They were
> idiot lights, that looked like a gauge, so you think it is a gauge, but
> the needle really only tells you that you have pressure. It doesn¹t tell
> you how much.
>
> The software simulating all of that is the next iteration of idiot gauges.
>
>
> The auto industry has no sense of direction. Or maybe they have their
> target market pegged. Idiot virtual gauges for idiot detached drivers.
>
>
> On 9/15/15, 10:44 PM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Dave"
> <detomaso-bounces at poca.com<mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com> on behalf of dave at damardirect.com<mailto:dave at damardirect.com>> wrote:
>
> This is from an engineer friend Engineers... Would rather design a cup
> and die of dehydration in the process than drink from the paper cup
> hanging next to the water jug...
>
> IndyDave
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dennis Valdez [mailto:sjcarguy60 at yahoo.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2015 1:06 PM
> To: Brent Stewart
> Cc: spkorb at gmail.com<mailto:spkorb at gmail.com>; detomaso at poca.com<mailto:detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Something is so wrong with this
>
> Late model BMW don't have a dipstick to check the oil. The level is
> measured by sensor and then delivered to the iDrive screen after checking
> a few menus. Even my 23 year-old son who works in the computer field,
> thinks this is ridiculous. When he went to check the oil on his
> girlfriends BMW and couldn't find the dipstick, he said dad, where is the
> dipstick on this car? I told him about the sensors in the computer. He
> said that stuff fails and I told him I know...
>
> Dennis Valdez
>
> On Sep 15, 2015, at 8:21 AM, Brent Stewart via DeTomaso
> <detomaso at poca.com<mailto:detomaso at poca.com>> wrote:
>
> This is exactly how a "regular" bmw temp gauge works. Reads "dead
> center" if the operating temperature is in what they consider a
> "normal" range. I was surprised and somewhat excited to see the temp
> gauge in my "M" actually represent the true temperature!
> On Tuesday, September 15, 2015 8:10 AM, Sean Korb<spkorb at gmail.com<mailto:spkorb at gmail.com>>
> wrote:
> The F150/Explorer gauge question came over the Fordnatics list a few
> years ago.A It turns out people were calling in to the dealer quite
> a
> bit because the oil gauge "fluctuated wildly" and the customers were
> worried about their truck malfunctioning even though nothing was in
> the
> red zone.
> Now the "gauge" goes up to "normal" and stays there.
> Problem. Solved.
> sean
> On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 9:40 AM, Richard Greenblum
> <[1][1]Richard at richardgreenblum.com<mailto:Richard at richardgreenblum.com>> wrote:
> A A There's another reason to add to the list.A This is a very
> car-saavy
> A A group of people.A Most of those F-150s and Explorers will be
> sold to
> A A people who don't look at the instruments, much less
> understand
> them, or
> A A even care.A I'd be surprised if they're there for any reason
> beyond
> A A norm and style.
> A A Richard
> A A Austin, TX
> A A From: DeTomaso<[1][2][2]detomaso-bounces at poca.com<mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com>> on behalf
> of
> Larry - Ohio
> A A Time<[2][3][3]Larry at ohiotimecorp.com<mailto:Larry at ohiotimecorp.com>>
> A A Date: Tuesday, September 15, 2015 at 8:33 AM
> A A To: 'Kirby Schrader'<[3][4][4]kirbyschrader at mac.com<mailto:kirbyschrader at mac.com>>,
> 'Charles
> McCall'
> A A<[4][5][5]charlesmccall at gmail.com<mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com>>
> A A Cc: deTomaso List<[5][6][6]detomaso at poca.com<mailto:detomaso at poca.com>>
> A A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Something is so wrong with this
> A A Kirby my Explorer has the "idiot gauges too", rat bastards.
> A A Lets look at this from a manufacturing side. The design and
> programming
> A A code
> A A to do this in the computer would be a one time cost. If you
> then
> A A eliminate
> A A the purchase, stock, supply and labor to install a sending
> unit... well
> A A that
> A A adds up to very big money over all the vehicles made. The
> person who
> A A came up
> A A with that one is a VP now.
> A A Follow the money, it's always about the money!
> A A Larry (has none) - Cleveland
> A A -----Original Message-----
> A A From: DeTomaso [[6]mailto:[7][7]detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On
> Behalf Of Kirby
> A A Schrader
> A A Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2015 5:38 AM
> A A To: Charles McCall
> A A Cc: Pantera list serve
> A A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Something is so wrong with this
> A A Not quite as stupid, but..
> A A My 2001 Lightning, as well as many F150's, has an oil
> pressure
> gauge in
> A A the
> A A instrument cluster.
> A A It always points to the same 'pressure' whether idling or at
> rpm.
> A A It is not a gauge. It looks like a gauge, but it is merely an
> idiot
> A A light in
> A A the disguise of a gauge.
> A A It doesn't measure pressure, it just shows you have pressure.
> A A FWIW,
> A A Kirby
> A A On Sep 15, 2015, at 02:31, Charles McCall
> <[7][8][8]charlesmccall at gmail.com<mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com>>
> A A wrote:
> A A A Chuck - it's something that is so hard to believe that I'd
> chalk it
> A A up
> A A A to Urban Legend if it hadn't come from a somewhat reliable
> source.
> A A A A
> A A A Besides introducing a degree of complexity and cost that is
> quite
> A A A unnecessary, the whole idea is completelyA backward and
> illogical.
> A A To
> A A A know what your theoretical temp is is irrelevant if the car
> is
> A A A engineered properly. If everything goes according to plan,
> then your
> A A A temps are under control and everyone is happy. The whole
> idea
> of
> A A A measuring the actual result is to see if the Actual matches
> the
> A A A Theoretical, or is something has gone wrong somewhere. The
> A A theoretical
> A A A coolant temp in the Pantera, for example, on the highway is
> 192F if
> A A A that's the thermostat temp. I know, depends on a lot of
> factors,
> A A where
> A A A it's measured, etc. But in a steady state it should be
> roughly
> that.
> A A A A
> A A A If something unexpected happens - a thermostat getting
> stuck,
> a leak
> A A in
> A A A your cooling system, something that the computer model
> won't
> take
> A A into
> A A A account, you'd have no way of knowing. Your theoretical
> hasn't
> A A changed,
> A A A but your coolant system is empty, you are about to blow a
> gasket and
> A A A you have no idea.
> A A A A
> A A A This has to be the dumbest idea in the entire history of
> car
> A A A manufacturing... A
> A A A On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 4:12 AM, Charles Engles
> A A<[1][8][9][9]cengles at cox.net<mailto:cengles at cox.net>>
> A A A wrote:
> A A A A AA A Dear Forum,
> A A A A AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA A I was just reading
> the October
> A A A A Grassroots Motorsports
> A A A A AA A article about their project car a new Chevy Camaro
> that they
> A A A A were
> A A A A AA A modifying and testing on the track.
> A A A A AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA ".......While
> enjoying
> the track
> A A outing,
> A A A A we confirmed
> A A A A AA A the third thing that had begun to concern us at
> Daytona:
> A A A A seemingly very
> A A A A AA A high engine oil temps.AA After just a few laps,
> the
> oil temp
> A A A A indicated
> A A A A AA A on the Camaro's quad gauge pack would creep up to
> within a
> A A A A couple
> A A A A AA A needle widths of the 320-degree mark.AA If
> nothing
> else, this
> A A A A warranted
> A A A A AA A some talks with Chevy.
> A A A A AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA We had a
> chat
> and exchanged some
> A A A A emails with one of
> A A A A AA A their powertrain engineers and learned some
> interesting
> A A A A stuff.AA First
> A A A A AA A the oil temp gauge in the center cluster isn't
> actually
> A A A A measuring oil
> A A A A AA A temp per se.AA The gauge actually reflects what a
> computer
> A A A A model
> A A A A AA A simulation estimates the oil temperature should be
> based on
> A A A A current
> A A A A AA A information.AA It takes data parameters like
> ambient
> temp,
> A A rpm,
> A A A A engine
> A A A A AA A load, vehicle speed, gear , throttle position and
> dozens of
> A A A A other data
> A A A A AA A points to build a very accurate simulation.
> A A A A AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA Amazing, yes.AA
> But the oil is
> A A A A literally 3 feet from
> A A A A AA A you.AA It's right there.AA Wouldn't it be easier
> to
> just
> A A A A measure the
> A A A A AA A temp?AA Well, Chevy says the modeling is highly
> accurate and
> A A A A quicker to
> A A A A AA A react than an actual gauge under normal
> conditions.AA And
> A A A A there's the
> A A A A AA A rub.AA Under typical loads the model is
> exceptional,
> but when
> A A A A the
> A A A A AA A variables start to greatly exceed the normal
> programming
> A A thanks
> A A A A to
> A A A A AA A strained track action, even Chevy admits that it
> may
> not be
> A A A A capable of
> A A A A AA A accurately predicting temps."
> A A A A AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA They then
> discuss
> the loan of the
> A A A A Chevy old school
> A A A A AA A thermocouple to install and double check the
> accuracy
> of
> A A A A virtual oil
> A A A A AA A pan oil temp reality with......an actual
> measurement
> of the
> A A A A actual
> A A A A AA A temperature in real time.
> A A A A AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA What is wrong
> with
> modern car
> A A A A manufacturers?AA A A
> A A A A AA A computer model simulation of the engine oil
> A A temperature?AA What
> A A A A could
> A A A A AA A ever go wrong with that?AA A I am appalled and
> flabbergasted
> A A by
> A A A A such
> A A A A AA A things.AA I am a Luddite.
> A A A A AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA
> AA
> AA AA A Confused,A
> A A A A Chuck Engles
> A A A A _______________________________________________
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> A A 4. mailto:[24][24]charlesmccall at gmail.com
> A A 5. mailto:[25][25]detomaso at poca.com
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> A A 7. mailto:[27][27]charlesmccall at gmail.com
> A A 8. mailto:[28][28]cengles at cox.net
> A A 9. mailto:[29][29]DeTomaso at poca.com
> A 10. [30][30]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> A 11. mailto:[31][31]cengles at cox.net
> A 12. mailto:[32][32]DeTomaso at poca.com
> A 13. [33][33]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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> A 15. [35][35]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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> --
> Sean Korb [42][42]spkorb at spkorb.org<mailto:spkorb at spkorb.org> [43][43]http://www.spkorb.org
> '65,'68 Mustangs,'68 Cougar,'78 R100/7,'60 Metro,'59 A35,'71 Pantera
> #1382
> "The more you drive, the less intelligent you get" --Miller
> "Computers are useless.A They can only give you answers." -P.
> Picasso
> References
> 1. mailto:[44]Richard at richardgreenblum.com
> 2. mailto:[45]detomaso-bounces at poca.com
> 3. mailto:[46]Larry at ohiotimecorp.com
> 4. mailto:[47]kirbyschrader at mac.com
> 5. mailto:[48]charlesmccall at gmail.com
> 6. mailto:[49]detomaso at poca.com
> 7. mailto:[50]detomaso-bounces at poca.com
> 8. mailto:[51]charlesmccall at gmail.com
> 9. mailto:[52]cengles at cox.net
> 10. mailto:[53]DeTomaso at poca.com
> 11. [54]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 12. mailto:[55]cengles at cox.net
> 13. mailto:[56]DeTomaso at poca.com
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> 22. mailto:[65]Larry at ohiotimecorp.com
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> 24. mailto:[67]charlesmccall at gmail.com
> 25. mailto:[68]detomaso at poca.com
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> 4. mailto:kirbyschrader at mac.com
> 5. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
> 6. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 7. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
> 8. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
> 9. mailto:cengles at cox.net
> 10. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 11. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 12. mailto:cengles at cox.net
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> 21. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
> 22. mailto:Larry at ohiotimecorp.com
> 23. mailto:kirbyschrader at mac.com
> 24. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
> 25. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 26. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
> 27. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
> 28. mailto:cengles at cox.net
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> 52. mailto:cengles at cox.net
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> 54. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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> 71. mailto:cengles at cox.net
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> 73. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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