[DeTomaso] Something is so wrong with this
Dave
dave at damardirect.com
Tue Sep 15 22:44:53 EDT 2015
This is from an engineer friend Engineers... Would rather design a cup and die of dehydration in the process than drink from the paper cup hanging next to the water jug...
IndyDave
-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis Valdez [mailto:sjcarguy60 at yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2015 1:06 PM
To: Brent Stewart
Cc: spkorb at gmail.com; detomaso at poca.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Something is so wrong with this
Late model BMW don't have a dipstick to check the oil. The level is measured by sensor and then delivered to the iDrive screen after checking a few menus. Even my 23 year-old son who works in the computer field, thinks this is ridiculous. When he went to check the oil on his girlfriends BMW and couldn't find the dipstick, he said dad, where is the dipstick on this car? I told him about the sensors in the computer. He said that stuff fails and I told him I know...
Dennis Valdez
> On Sep 15, 2015, at 8:21 AM, Brent Stewart via DeTomaso <detomaso at poca.com> wrote:
>
> This is exactly how a "regular" bmw temp gauge works. Reads "dead
> center" if the operating temperature is in what they consider a
> "normal" range. I was surprised and somewhat excited to see the temp
> gauge in my "M" actually represent the true temperature!
> On Tuesday, September 15, 2015 8:10 AM, Sean Korb <spkorb at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> The F150/Explorer gauge question came over the Fordnatics list a few
> years ago.A It turns out people were calling in to the dealer quite
> a
> bit because the oil gauge "fluctuated wildly" and the customers were
> worried about their truck malfunctioning even though nothing was in
> the
> red zone.
> Now the "gauge" goes up to "normal" and stays there.
> Problem. Solved.
> sean
> On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 9:40 AM, Richard Greenblum
> <[1][1]Richard at richardgreenblum.com> wrote:
> A A There's another reason to add to the list.A This is a very
> car-saavy
> A A group of people.A Most of those F-150s and Explorers will be
> sold to
> A A people who don't look at the instruments, much less understand
> them, or
> A A even care.A I'd be surprised if they're there for any reason
> beyond
> A A norm and style.
> A A Richard
> A A Austin, TX
> A A From: DeTomaso <[1][2][2]detomaso-bounces at poca.com> on behalf
> of
> Larry - Ohio
> A A Time <[2][3][3]Larry at ohiotimecorp.com>
> A A Date: Tuesday, September 15, 2015 at 8:33 AM
> A A To: 'Kirby Schrader' <[3][4][4]kirbyschrader at mac.com>,
> 'Charles
> McCall'
> A A <[4][5][5]charlesmccall at gmail.com>
> A A Cc: deTomaso List <[5][6][6]detomaso at poca.com>
> A A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Something is so wrong with this
> A A Kirby my Explorer has the "idiot gauges too", rat bastards.
> A A Lets look at this from a manufacturing side. The design and
> programming
> A A code
> A A to do this in the computer would be a one time cost. If you
> then
> A A eliminate
> A A the purchase, stock, supply and labor to install a sending
> unit... well
> A A that
> A A adds up to very big money over all the vehicles made. The
> person who
> A A came up
> A A with that one is a VP now.
> A A Follow the money, it's always about the money!
> A A Larry (has none) - Cleveland
> A A -----Original Message-----
> A A From: DeTomaso [[6]mailto:[7][7]detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On
> Behalf Of Kirby
> A A Schrader
> A A Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2015 5:38 AM
> A A To: Charles McCall
> A A Cc: Pantera list serve
> A A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Something is so wrong with this
> A A Not quite as stupid, but..
> A A My 2001 Lightning, as well as many F150's, has an oil pressure
> gauge in
> A A the
> A A instrument cluster.
> A A It always points to the same 'pressure' whether idling or at
> rpm.
> A A It is not a gauge. It looks like a gauge, but it is merely an
> idiot
> A A light in
> A A the disguise of a gauge.
> A A It doesn't measure pressure, it just shows you have pressure.
> A A FWIW,
> A A Kirby
> A A On Sep 15, 2015, at 02:31, Charles McCall
> <[7][8][8]charlesmccall at gmail.com>
> A A wrote:
> A A A Chuck - it's something that is so hard to believe that I'd
> chalk it
> A A up
> A A A to Urban Legend if it hadn't come from a somewhat reliable
> source.
> A A A A
> A A A Besides introducing a degree of complexity and cost that is
> quite
> A A A unnecessary, the whole idea is completelyA backward and
> illogical.
> A A To
> A A A know what your theoretical temp is is irrelevant if the car
> is
> A A A engineered properly. If everything goes according to plan,
> then your
> A A A temps are under control and everyone is happy. The whole
> idea
> of
> A A A measuring the actual result is to see if the Actual matches
> the
> A A A Theoretical, or is something has gone wrong somewhere. The
> A A theoretical
> A A A coolant temp in the Pantera, for example, on the highway is
> 192F if
> A A A that's the thermostat temp. I know, depends on a lot of
> factors,
> A A where
> A A A it's measured, etc. But in a steady state it should be
> roughly
> that.
> A A A A
> A A A If something unexpected happens - a thermostat getting
> stuck,
> a leak
> A A in
> A A A your cooling system, something that the computer model won't
> take
> A A into
> A A A account, you'd have no way of knowing. Your theoretical
> hasn't
> A A changed,
> A A A but your coolant system is empty, you are about to blow a
> gasket and
> A A A you have no idea.
> A A A A
> A A A This has to be the dumbest idea in the entire history of car
> A A A manufacturing... A
> A A A On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 4:12 AM, Charles Engles
> A A <[1][8][9][9]cengles at cox.net>
> A A A wrote:
> A A A A AA A Dear Forum,
> A A A A AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA A I was just reading
> the October
> A A A A Grassroots Motorsports
> A A A A AA A article about their project car a new Chevy Camaro
> that they
> A A A A were
> A A A A AA A modifying and testing on the track.
> A A A A AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA ".......While
> enjoying
> the track
> A A outing,
> A A A A we confirmed
> A A A A AA A the third thing that had begun to concern us at
> Daytona:
> A A A A seemingly very
> A A A A AA A high engine oil temps.AA After just a few laps,
> the
> oil temp
> A A A A indicated
> A A A A AA A on the Camaro's quad gauge pack would creep up to
> within a
> A A A A couple
> A A A A AA A needle widths of the 320-degree mark.AA If nothing
> else, this
> A A A A warranted
> A A A A AA A some talks with Chevy.
> A A A A AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA We had a chat
> and exchanged some
> A A A A emails with one of
> A A A A AA A their powertrain engineers and learned some
> interesting
> A A A A stuff.AA First
> A A A A AA A the oil temp gauge in the center cluster isn't
> actually
> A A A A measuring oil
> A A A A AA A temp per se.AA The gauge actually reflects what a
> computer
> A A A A model
> A A A A AA A simulation estimates the oil temperature should be
> based on
> A A A A current
> A A A A AA A information.AA It takes data parameters like
> ambient
> temp,
> A A rpm,
> A A A A engine
> A A A A AA A load, vehicle speed, gear , throttle position and
> dozens of
> A A A A other data
> A A A A AA A points to build a very accurate simulation.
> A A A A AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA Amazing, yes.AA
> But the oil is
> A A A A literally 3 feet from
> A A A A AA A you.AA It's right there.AA Wouldn't it be easier
> to
> just
> A A A A measure the
> A A A A AA A temp?AA Well, Chevy says the modeling is highly
> accurate and
> A A A A quicker to
> A A A A AA A react than an actual gauge under normal
> conditions.AA And
> A A A A there's the
> A A A A AA A rub.AA Under typical loads the model is
> exceptional,
> but when
> A A A A the
> A A A A AA A variables start to greatly exceed the normal
> programming
> A A thanks
> A A A A to
> A A A A AA A strained track action, even Chevy admits that it
> may
> not be
> A A A A capable of
> A A A A AA A accurately predicting temps."
> A A A A AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA They then discuss
> the loan of the
> A A A A Chevy old school
> A A A A AA A thermocouple to install and double check the
> accuracy
> of
> A A A A virtual oil
> A A A A AA A pan oil temp reality with......an actual
> measurement
> of the
> A A A A actual
> A A A A AA A temperature in real time.
> A A A A AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA What is wrong
> with
> modern car
> A A A A manufacturers?AA A A
> A A A A AA A computer model simulation of the engine oil
> A A temperature?AA What
> A A A A could
> A A A A AA A ever go wrong with that?AA A I am appalled and
> flabbergasted
> A A by
> A A A A such
> A A A A AA A things.AA I am a Luddite.
> A A A A AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA
> AA
> AA AA A Confused,A
> A A A A Chuck Engles
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