[DeTomaso] Something is so wrong with this

cengles at cox.net cengles at cox.net
Tue Sep 15 09:46:00 EDT 2015


Dear Sagacious Larry,


               Egad.  That makes more sense for such irrational 
engineering than my guess of oppressive governmental regulations. 
Also, as Julian observed covert ECU management also lets Chevrolet and 
governmental agencies inquire of your car's computer  if you've been 
excessive or improper in your use of an advertised high performance car. 
Sigh.


                       Warmest regards,  Chuck Engles





On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 8:33 AM, Larry - Ohio Time wrote:

> Kirby my Explorer has the "idiot gauges too", rat bastards.
>
> Lets look at this from a manufacturing side. The design and 
> programming code
> to do this in the computer would be a one time cost. If you then 
> eliminate
> the purchase, stock, supply and labor to install a sending unit... 
> well that
> adds up to very big money over all the vehicles made. The person who 
> came up
> with that one is a VP now.
>
> Follow the money, it's always about the money!
>
> Larry (has none) - Cleveland
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of Kirby
> Schrader
> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2015 5:38 AM
> To: Charles McCall
> Cc: Pantera list serve
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Something is so wrong with this
>
> Not quite as stupid, but..
>
> My 2001 Lightning, as well as many F150's, has an oil pressure gauge 
> in the
> instrument cluster.
> It always points to the same 'pressure' whether idling or at rpm.
>
> It is not a gauge. It looks like a gauge, but it is merely an idiot 
> light in
> the disguise of a gauge.
> It doesn't measure pressure, it just shows you have pressure.
>
> FWIW,
> Kirby
>
>> On Sep 15, 2015, at 02:31, Charles McCall <charlesmccall at gmail.com> 
>> wrote:
>>
>>   Chuck - it's something that is so hard to believe that I'd chalk it 
>> up
>>   to Urban Legend if it hadn't come from a somewhat reliable source.
>>   A
>>   Besides introducing a degree of complexity and cost that is quite
>>   unnecessary, the whole idea is completelyA backward and illogical. 
>> To
>>   know what your theoretical temp is is irrelevant if the car is
>>   engineered properly. If everything goes according to plan, then 
>> your
>>   temps are under control and everyone is happy. The whole idea of
>>   measuring the actual result is to see if the Actual matches the
>>   Theoretical, or is something has gone wrong somewhere. The 
>> theoretical
>>   coolant temp in the Pantera, for example, on the highway is 192F if
>>   that's the thermostat temp. I know, depends on a lot of factors, 
>> where
>>   it's measured, etc. But in a steady state it should be roughly 
>> that.
>>   A
>>   If something unexpected happens - a thermostat getting stuck, a 
>> leak in
>>   your cooling system, something that the computer model won't take 
>> into
>>   account, you'd have no way of knowing. Your theoretical hasn't 
>> changed,
>>   but your coolant system is empty, you are about to blow a gasket 
>> and
>>   you have no idea.
>>   A
>>   This has to be the dumbest idea in the entire history of car
>>   manufacturing... A
>>
>>   On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 4:12 AM, Charles Engles 
>> <[1]cengles at cox.net>
>>   wrote:
>>
>>     A  A Dear Forum,
>>     A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A I was just reading the October
>>     Grassroots Motorsports
>>     A  A article about their project car a new Chevy Camaro that they
>>     were
>>     A  A modifying and testing on the track.
>>     A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A  ".......While enjoying the track 
>> outing,
>>     we confirmed
>>     A  A the third thing that had begun to concern us at Daytona:
>>     seemingly very
>>     A  A high engine oil temps.A  After just a few laps, the oil temp
>>     indicated
>>     A  A on the Camaro's quad gauge pack would creep up to within a
>>     couple
>>     A  A needle widths of the 320-degree mark.A  If nothing else, 
>> this
>>     warranted
>>     A  A some talks with Chevy.
>>     A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A  We had a chat and exchanged some
>>     emails with one of
>>     A  A their powertrain engineers and learned some interesting
>>     stuff.A  First
>>     A  A the oil temp gauge in the center cluster isn't actually
>>     measuring oil
>>     A  A temp per se.A  The gauge actually reflects what a computer
>>     model
>>     A  A simulation estimates the oil temperature should be based on
>>     current
>>     A  A information.A  It takes data parameters like ambient temp, 
>> rpm,
>>     engine
>>     A  A load, vehicle speed, gear , throttle position and dozens of
>>     other data
>>     A  A points to build a very accurate simulation.
>>     A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A  Amazing, yes.A  But the oil is
>>     literally 3 feet from
>>     A  A you.A  It's right there.A  Wouldn't it be easier to just
>>     measure the
>>     A  A temp?A  Well, Chevy says the modeling is highly accurate and
>>     quicker to
>>     A  A react than an actual gauge under normal conditions.A  And
>>     there's the
>>     A  A rub.A  Under typical loads the model is exceptional, but 
>> when
>>     the
>>     A  A variables start to greatly exceed the normal programming 
>> thanks
>>     to
>>     A  A strained track action, even Chevy admits that it may not be
>>     capable of
>>     A  A accurately predicting temps."
>>     A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A  They then discuss the loan of the
>>     Chevy old school
>>     A  A thermocouple to install and double check the accuracy of
>>     virtual oil
>>     A  A pan oil temp reality with......an actual measurement of the
>>     actual
>>     A  A temperature in real time.
>>     A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A  What is wrong with modern car
>>     manufacturers?A  A A
>>     A  A computer model simulation of the engine oil temperature?A 
>> What
>>     could
>>     A  A ever go wrong with that?A  A I am appalled and flabbergasted 
>> by
>>     such
>>     A  A things.A  I am a Luddite.
>>     A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A Confused,A
>>     Chuck Engles
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