[DeTomaso] Something is so wrong with this
Sean Korb
spkorb at gmail.com
Tue Sep 15 06:44:47 EDT 2015
It's hard to call that an "instrument panel" or "gauge panel" if there are
no instruments. I guess it's just a "dash panel" these days.
I really enjoy telling my friends it only takes three wires to run my car,
and two of them tell me how hot it is and how much gas I have left.
sean
On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 5:38 AM, Kirby Schrader <kirbyschrader at mac.com>
wrote:
> Not quite as stupid, but….
>
> My 2001 Lightning, as well as many F150’s, has an oil pressure gauge in
> the instrument cluster.
> It always points to the same ‘pressure’ whether idling or at rpm.
>
> It is not a gauge. It looks like a gauge, but it is merely an idiot light
> in the disguise of a gauge.
> It doesn’t measure pressure, it just shows you have pressure.
>
> FWIW,
> Kirby
>
> > On Sep 15, 2015, at 02:31, Charles McCall <charlesmccall at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Chuck - it's something that is so hard to believe that I'd chalk it up
> > to Urban Legend if it hadn't come from a somewhat reliable source.
> > A
> > Besides introducing a degree of complexity and cost that is quite
> > unnecessary, the whole idea is completelyA backward and illogical. To
> > know what your theoretical temp is is irrelevant if the car is
> > engineered properly. If everything goes according to plan, then your
> > temps are under control and everyone is happy. The whole idea of
> > measuring the actual result is to see if the Actual matches the
> > Theoretical, or is something has gone wrong somewhere. The theoretical
> > coolant temp in the Pantera, for example, on the highway is 192F if
> > that's the thermostat temp. I know, depends on a lot of factors, where
> > it's measured, etc. But in a steady state it should be roughly that.
> > A
> > If something unexpected happens - a thermostat getting stuck, a leak in
> > your cooling system, something that the computer model won't take into
> > account, you'd have no way of knowing. Your theoretical hasn't changed,
> > but your coolant system is empty, you are about to blow a gasket and
> > you have no idea.
> > A
> > This has to be the dumbest idea in the entire history of car
> > manufacturing... A
> >
> > On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 4:12 AM, Charles Engles <[1]cengles at cox.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> > A A Dear Forum,
> > A A A A A A A A A A I was just reading the October
> > Grassroots Motorsports
> > A A article about their project car a new Chevy Camaro that they
> > were
> > A A modifying and testing on the track.
> > A A A A A A A A A ".......While enjoying the track outing,
> > we confirmed
> > A A the third thing that had begun to concern us at Daytona:
> > seemingly very
> > A A high engine oil temps.A After just a few laps, the oil temp
> > indicated
> > A A on the Camaro's quad gauge pack would creep up to within a
> > couple
> > A A needle widths of the 320-degree mark.A If nothing else, this
> > warranted
> > A A some talks with Chevy.
> > A A A A A A A A A A A We had a chat and exchanged some
> > emails with one of
> > A A their powertrain engineers and learned some interesting
> > stuff.A First
> > A A the oil temp gauge in the center cluster isn't actually
> > measuring oil
> > A A temp per se.A The gauge actually reflects what a computer
> > model
> > A A simulation estimates the oil temperature should be based on
> > current
> > A A information.A It takes data parameters like ambient temp, rpm,
> > engine
> > A A load, vehicle speed, gear , throttle position and dozens of
> > other data
> > A A points to build a very accurate simulation.
> > A A A A A A A A A A Amazing, yes.A But the oil is
> > literally 3 feet from
> > A A you.A It's right there.A Wouldn't it be easier to just
> > measure the
> > A A temp?A Well, Chevy says the modeling is highly accurate and
> > quicker to
> > A A react than an actual gauge under normal conditions.A And
> > there's the
> > A A rub.A Under typical loads the model is exceptional, but when
> > the
> > A A variables start to greatly exceed the normal programming thanks
> > to
> > A A strained track action, even Chevy admits that it may not be
> > capable of
> > A A accurately predicting temps."
> > A A A A A A A A A A They then discuss the loan of the
> > Chevy old school
> > A A thermocouple to install and double check the accuracy of
> > virtual oil
> > A A pan oil temp reality with......an actual measurement of the
> > actual
> > A A temperature in real time.
> > A A A A A A A A A A What is wrong with modern car
> > manufacturers?A A A
> > A A computer model simulation of the engine oil temperature?A What
> > could
> > A A ever go wrong with that?A A I am appalled and flabbergasted by
> > such
> > A A things.A I am a Luddite.
> > A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A Confused,A
> > Chuck Engles
> > _______________________________________________
> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > [2]DeTomaso at poca.com
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> > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
> > etc.) use the links above.
> >
> > References
> >
> > 1. mailto:cengles at cox.net
> > 2. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> > 3. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
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> >
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> use the links above.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
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--
Sean Korb spkorb at spkorb.org http://www.spkorb.org
'65,'68 Mustangs,'68 Cougar,'78 R100/7,'60 Metro,'59 A35,'71 Pantera #1382
"The more you drive, the less intelligent you get" --Miller
"Computers are useless. They can only give you answers." -P. Picasso
-------------- next part --------------
It's hard to call that an "instrument panel" or "gauge panel" if there
are no instruments.A I guess it's just a "dash panel" these days.
I really enjoy telling my friends it only takes three wires to run my
car, and two of them tell me how hot it is and how much gas I have
left.
sean
On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 5:38 AM, Kirby Schrader
<[1]kirbyschrader at mac.com> wrote:
Not quite as stupid, buta|.
My 2001 Lightning, as well as many F150as, has an oil pressure gauge
in the instrument cluster.
It always points to the same apressurea whether idling or at rpm.
It is not a gauge. It looks like a gauge, but it is merely an idiot
light in the disguise of a gauge.
It doesnat measure pressure, it just shows you have pressure.
FWIW,
Kirby
> On Sep 15, 2015, at 02:31, Charles McCall
<[2]charlesmccall at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>A A Chuck - it's something that is so hard to believe that I'd chalk
it up
>A A to Urban Legend if it hadn't come from a somewhat reliable
source.
>A A A
>A A Besides introducing a degree of complexity and cost that is quite
>A A unnecessary, the whole idea is completelyA backward and
illogical. To
>A A know what your theoretical temp is is irrelevant if the car is
>A A engineered properly. If everything goes according to plan, then
your
>A A temps are under control and everyone is happy. The whole idea of
>A A measuring the actual result is to see if the Actual matches the
>A A Theoretical, or is something has gone wrong somewhere. The
theoretical
>A A coolant temp in the Pantera, for example, on the highway is 192F
if
>A A that's the thermostat temp. I know, depends on a lot of factors,
where
>A A it's measured, etc. But in a steady state it should be roughly
that.
>A A A
>A A If something unexpected happens - a thermostat getting stuck, a
leak in
>A A your cooling system, something that the computer model won't take
into
>A A account, you'd have no way of knowing. Your theoretical hasn't
changed,
>A A but your coolant system is empty, you are about to blow a gasket
and
>A A you have no idea.
>A A A
>A A This has to be the dumbest idea in the entire history of car
>A A manufacturing... A
>
>A A On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 4:12 AM, Charles Engles
<[1][3]cengles at cox.net>
>A A wrote:
>
>A A A AA A Dear Forum,
>A A A AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA A I was just reading the
October
>A A A Grassroots Motorsports
>A A A AA A article about their project car a new Chevy Camaro that
they
>A A A were
>A A A AA A modifying and testing on the track.
>A A A AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA ".......While enjoying the
track outing,
>A A A we confirmed
>A A A AA A the third thing that had begun to concern us at Daytona:
>A A A seemingly very
>A A A AA A high engine oil temps.AA After just a few laps, the oil
temp
>A A A indicated
>A A A AA A on the Camaro's quad gauge pack would creep up to within
a
>A A A couple
>A A A AA A needle widths of the 320-degree mark.AA If nothing
else, this
>A A A warranted
>A A A AA A some talks with Chevy.
>A A A AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA We had a chat and
exchanged some
>A A A emails with one of
>A A A AA A their powertrain engineers and learned some interesting
>A A A stuff.AA First
>A A A AA A the oil temp gauge in the center cluster isn't actually
>A A A measuring oil
>A A A AA A temp per se.AA The gauge actually reflects what a
computer
>A A A model
>A A A AA A simulation estimates the oil temperature should be based
on
>A A A current
>A A A AA A information.AA It takes data parameters like ambient
temp, rpm,
>A A A engine
>A A A AA A load, vehicle speed, gear , throttle position and dozens
of
>A A A other data
>A A A AA A points to build a very accurate simulation.
>A A A AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA Amazing, yes.AA But
the oil is
>A A A literally 3 feet from
>A A A AA A you.AA It's right there.AA Wouldn't it be easier to
just
>A A A measure the
>A A A AA A temp?AA Well, Chevy says the modeling is highly
accurate and
>A A A quicker to
>A A A AA A react than an actual gauge under normal conditions.AA
And
>A A A there's the
>A A A AA A rub.AA Under typical loads the model is exceptional,
but when
>A A A the
>A A A AA A variables start to greatly exceed the normal programming
thanks
>A A A to
>A A A AA A strained track action, even Chevy admits that it may not
be
>A A A capable of
>A A A AA A accurately predicting temps."
>A A A AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA They then discuss the
loan of the
>A A A Chevy old school
>A A A AA A thermocouple to install and double check the accuracy of
>A A A virtual oil
>A A A AA A pan oil temp reality with......an actual measurement of
the
>A A A actual
>A A A AA A temperature in real time.
>A A A AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA What is wrong with
modern car
>A A A manufacturers?AA A A
>A A A AA A computer model simulation of the engine oil
temperature?AA What
>A A A could
>A A A AA A ever go wrong with that?AA A I am appalled and
flabbergasted by
>A A A such
>A A A AA A things.AA I am a Luddite.
>A A A AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA AA
AA AA A Confused,A
>A A A Chuck Engles
>A A A _______________________________________________
>A A A Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>A A A Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>A A A DeTomaso mailing list
>A A A [2][4]DeTomaso at poca.com
>A A A [3][5]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>A A A To manage your subscription (change email address,
unsubscribe,
>A A A etc.) use the links above.
>
> References
>
>A A 1. mailto:[6]cengles at cox.net
>A A 2. mailto:[7]DeTomaso at poca.com
>A A 3. [8]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
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>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
etc.) use the links above.
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
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To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
use the links above.
--
Sean Korb [13]spkorb at spkorb.org [14]http://www.spkorb.org
'65,'68 Mustangs,'68 Cougar,'78 R100/7,'60 Metro,'59 A35,'71 Pantera
#1382
"The more you drive, the less intelligent you get" --Miller
"Computers are useless.A They can only give you answers." -P. Picasso
References
1. mailto:kirbyschrader at mac.com
2. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
3. mailto:cengles at cox.net
4. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
5. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
6. mailto:cengles at cox.net
7. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
8. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
9. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
10. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
11. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
12. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
13. mailto:spkorb at spkorb.org
14. http://www.spkorb.org/
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