[DeTomaso] Something is so wrong with this
Charles McCall
charlesmccall at gmail.com
Tue Sep 15 03:31:17 EDT 2015
Chuck - it's something that is so hard to believe that I'd chalk it up to
Urban Legend if it hadn't come from a somewhat reliable source.
Besides introducing a degree of complexity and cost that is quite
unnecessary, the whole idea is completely backward and illogical. To know
what your theoretical temp is is irrelevant if the car is engineered
properly. If everything goes according to plan, then your temps are under
control and everyone is happy. The whole idea of measuring the actual
result is to see if the Actual matches the Theoretical, or is something has
gone wrong somewhere. The theoretical coolant temp in the Pantera, for
example, on the highway is 192F if that's the thermostat temp. I know,
depends on a lot of factors, where it's measured, etc. But in a steady
state it should be roughly that.
If something unexpected happens - a thermostat getting stuck, a leak in
your cooling system, something that the computer model won't take into
account, you'd have no way of knowing. Your theoretical hasn't changed, but
your coolant system is empty, you are about to blow a gasket and you have
no idea.
This has to be the dumbest idea in the entire history of car
manufacturing...
On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 4:12 AM, Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net> wrote:
> Dear Forum,
>
>
>
> I was just reading the October Grassroots Motorsports
> article about their project car a new Chevy Camaro that they were
> modifying and testing on the track.
>
>
>
> ".......While enjoying the track outing, we confirmed
> the third thing that had begun to concern us at Daytona: seemingly very
> high engine oil temps. After just a few laps, the oil temp indicated
> on the Camaro's quad gauge pack would creep up to within a couple
> needle widths of the 320-degree mark. If nothing else, this warranted
> some talks with Chevy.
>
>
> We had a chat and exchanged some emails with one of
> their powertrain engineers and learned some interesting stuff. First
> the oil temp gauge in the center cluster isn't actually measuring oil
> temp per se. The gauge actually reflects what a computer model
> simulation estimates the oil temperature should be based on current
> information. It takes data parameters like ambient temp, rpm, engine
> load, vehicle speed, gear , throttle position and dozens of other data
> points to build a very accurate simulation.
>
>
> Amazing, yes. But the oil is literally 3 feet from
> you. It's right there. Wouldn't it be easier to just measure the
> temp? Well, Chevy says the modeling is highly accurate and quicker to
> react than an actual gauge under normal conditions. And there's the
> rub. Under typical loads the model is exceptional, but when the
> variables start to greatly exceed the normal programming thanks to
> strained track action, even Chevy admits that it may not be capable of
> accurately predicting temps."
>
>
> They then discuss the loan of the Chevy old school
> thermocouple to install and double check the accuracy of virtual oil
> pan oil temp reality with......an actual measurement of the actual
> temperature in real time.
>
>
> What is wrong with modern car manufacturers? A
> computer model simulation of the engine oil temperature? What could
> ever go wrong with that? I am appalled and flabbergasted by such
> things. I am a Luddite.
>
>
> Confused, Chuck Engles
>
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-------------- next part --------------
Chuck - it's something that is so hard to believe that I'd chalk it up
to Urban Legend if it hadn't come from a somewhat reliable source.
A
Besides introducing a degree of complexity and cost that is quite
unnecessary, the whole idea is completelyA backward and illogical. To
know what your theoretical temp is is irrelevant if the car is
engineered properly. If everything goes according to plan, then your
temps are under control and everyone is happy. The whole idea of
measuring the actual result is to see if the Actual matches the
Theoretical, or is something has gone wrong somewhere. The theoretical
coolant temp in the Pantera, for example, on the highway is 192F if
that's the thermostat temp. I know, depends on a lot of factors, where
it's measured, etc. But in a steady state it should be roughly that.
A
If something unexpected happens - a thermostat getting stuck, a leak in
your cooling system, something that the computer model won't take into
account, you'd have no way of knowing. Your theoretical hasn't changed,
but your coolant system is empty, you are about to blow a gasket and
you have no idea.
A
This has to be the dumbest idea in the entire history of car
manufacturing... A
On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 4:12 AM, Charles Engles <[1]cengles at cox.net>
wrote:
A A Dear Forum,
A A A A A A A A A A I was just reading the October
Grassroots Motorsports
A A article about their project car a new Chevy Camaro that they
were
A A modifying and testing on the track.
A A A A A A A A A ".......While enjoying the track outing,
we confirmed
A A the third thing that had begun to concern us at Daytona:
seemingly very
A A high engine oil temps.A After just a few laps, the oil temp
indicated
A A on the Camaro's quad gauge pack would creep up to within a
couple
A A needle widths of the 320-degree mark.A If nothing else, this
warranted
A A some talks with Chevy.
A A A A A A A A A A A We had a chat and exchanged some
emails with one of
A A their powertrain engineers and learned some interesting
stuff.A First
A A the oil temp gauge in the center cluster isn't actually
measuring oil
A A temp per se.A The gauge actually reflects what a computer
model
A A simulation estimates the oil temperature should be based on
current
A A information.A It takes data parameters like ambient temp, rpm,
engine
A A load, vehicle speed, gear , throttle position and dozens of
other data
A A points to build a very accurate simulation.
A A A A A A A A A A Amazing, yes.A But the oil is
literally 3 feet from
A A you.A It's right there.A Wouldn't it be easier to just
measure the
A A temp?A Well, Chevy says the modeling is highly accurate and
quicker to
A A react than an actual gauge under normal conditions.A And
there's the
A A rub.A Under typical loads the model is exceptional, but when
the
A A variables start to greatly exceed the normal programming thanks
to
A A strained track action, even Chevy admits that it may not be
capable of
A A accurately predicting temps."
A A A A A A A A A A They then discuss the loan of the
Chevy old school
A A thermocouple to install and double check the accuracy of
virtual oil
A A pan oil temp reality with......an actual measurement of the
actual
A A temperature in real time.
A A A A A A A A A A What is wrong with modern car
manufacturers?A A A
A A computer model simulation of the engine oil temperature?A What
could
A A ever go wrong with that?A A I am appalled and flabbergasted by
such
A A things.A I am a Luddite.
A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A Confused,A
Chuck Engles
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