[DeTomaso] Windsor or Cleveland question..

Wed Sep 2 21:15:15 EDT 2015

The new all aluminum 351c sold by Tim Meyer is far superior to the stock Cleveland block and better than a Windsor SVO. Hands down. I am sure Tim can tell you all of the benefits.

Pantera are meant to have a Cleveland at least a Clevor, but not a W.

Again just my opinion.

A Cleveland is something special, a Windsor is for all those other Fords.

:-)

Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus

> On Sep 2, 2015, at 18:00, Will Kooiman <will.kooiman at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Here¹s my take.
> 
> It doesn¹t make a lot of sense to run a 351W instead of a 351C.  They are
> almost the same engine, except that you changed the part of the 351C that
> makes it so great.  The heads.
> 
> Sure, you can run 351C heads on an SVO block.  But I think you were
> talking about using 351W heads.
> 
> If you are going Windsor, you should consider a 347, based on a 5.0 block.
> That would give you more room around the headers, distributor, etc.
> 
> On 9/2/15, 8:32 PM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Kirby Schrader"
> <detomaso-bounces at poca.com on behalf of kirbyschrader at mac.com> wrote:
> 
>> Thomas,
>> 
>> Not if you go with an SVO block.
>> I have a 9.2² Windsor SVO and a 9.5² Windsor SVO.
>> 
>> Now then, if you¹re talking about a Œnormal¹ Windsor, I¹d rather not use
>> them.
>> Big main bearings. Cleveland bearings are smaller and you can get more
>> rpm.
>> 
>> But heyŠ I¹m sure Dan Jones will chime in with more information when he
>> gets time!
>> :-)
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Kirby
>> 
>>> On Sep 2, 2015, at 13:42, thomas <thomas at hax.se> wrote:
>>> 
>>> The Windsor is taller, 9.5" vs 9.2" deck height, and thus (at least in
>>> theory) wider. Unless you are going for a 302W of course.
>>> 
>>>> 2 sep 2015 kl. 17:36 skrev Cullen McCann <cmccann1972 at gmail.com>:
>>>> 
>>>> Dear Forum,
>>>> I'm sure this question has been discussed more than once in the past,
>>>> but I cant readily find it and have only been intermittently involved
>>>> with the Pantera following over the years.
>>>> If I get my facts wrong, forgive me. Some is based on research and
>>>> some
>>>> based on perception.
>>>> 351 Cleveland or Windsor?
>>>> I need to build a motor for my car anyway. I do not have the original
>>>> engine or anyA engine for it at this time. I have had several 351w
>>>> motors over the years. I understand the following criteria to be true.
>>>> Both motors displace the same number, approximately, of cubic inches.
>>>> Both have the same bellhousing bolt pattern. Both have the same motor
>>>> mount locations. The Windsor is slightly narrower, leaving
>>>> theoretically more room for headers, fuel tanks, etc on either side.
>>>> (?) length and height appear negligibly different.A
>>>> The Windsor is lighter in pounds. According to a few online sources:
>>>> A
>>>> [1]http://www.mustangsandmore.com/ubb/EngineDimensions.html
>>>> ....theA WindsorA  appears to be about 25A lbs lighter,A depending on
>>>> source and configuration.A Not a huge benefit, but certainly not a
>>>> drawback . The aftermarket support forA WindsorA family engines
>>>> appears
>>>> significantly larger...A everyA 289-302-351w cylinder headA isA an
>>>> option.A Many different manufacturers and models fromA Trickflow,
>>>> Brodix, AFR, Ford motorsport,A Edelbrock etc are to choose from. I
>>>> know
>>>> of 600-plus streetableA horsepower motors in both. I have a Windsor
>>>> with similar performance numbers in my Cobra Replica. It was not hard
>>>> to make 550 horse in the Windsor and parts were very easy to get
>>>> through and through.
>>>> My perception is that the Cleveland motor aftermarket support is much
>>>> narrower, much more limited in choices for heads, intakes availability
>>>> of good blocks, etc. Factory accessories, exhaustA systemsA etc are of
>>>> no concern to me.
>>>> So...the obvious forthcoming question...if originality wasn't a
>>>> driving
>>>> concern...why go Cleveland?? Whats the motivation other thanA purity?
>>>> I
>>>> find that aA majority of PanteraA enthusiastsA aren't purists anyway.
>>>> Are their other fitment concernsA I'm not aware of?
>>>> Thanks for your thoughts..
>>>> Cullen
>>>> .
>>>> 
>>>> References
>>>> 
>>>> 1. http://www.mustangsandmore.com/ubb/EngineDimensions.html
>>>> 
>>>> 
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