[DeTomaso] Windsor or Cleveland question..

[Cullen McCann]

Dear Forum,

I'm sure this question has been discussed more than once in the past, but I
cant readily find it and have only been intermittently involved with the
Pantera following over the years.

If I get my facts wrong, forgive me. Some is based on research and some
based on perception.

351 Cleveland or Windsor?

I need to build a motor for my car anyway. I do not have the original
engine or any engine for it at this time. I have had several 351w motors
over the years. I understand the following criteria to be true. Both motors
displace the same number, approximately, of cubic inches. Both have the
same bellhousing bolt pattern. Both have the same motor mount locations.
The Windsor is slightly narrower, leaving theoretically more room for
headers, fuel tanks, etc on either side. (?) length and height appear
negligibly different.

The Windsor is lighter in pounds. According to a few online sources:

http://www.mustangsandmore.com/ubb/EngineDimensions.html

....the Windsor  appears to be about 25 lbs lighter, depending on source
and configuration. Not a huge benefit, but certainly not a drawback . The
aftermarket support for Windsor family engines appears significantly
larger... every 289-302-351w cylinder head is an option. Many different
manufacturers and models from Trickflow, Brodix, AFR, Ford
motorsport, Edelbrock etc are to choose from. I know of 600-plus
streetable horsepower motors in both. I have a Windsor with similar
performance numbers in my Cobra Replica. It was not hard to make 550 horse
in the Windsor and parts were very easy to get through and through.

My perception is that the Cleveland motor aftermarket support is much
narrower, much more limited in choices for heads, intakes availability of
good blocks, etc. Factory accessories, exhaust systems etc are of no
concern to me.

So...the obvious forthcoming question...if originality wasn't a driving
concern...why go Cleveland?? Whats the motivation other than purity? I find
that a majority of Pantera enthusiasts aren't purists anyway. Are their
other fitment concerns I'm not aware of?

Thanks for your thoughts..

Cullen

.
-------------- next part --------------
   Dear Forum,
   I'm sure this question has been discussed more than once in the past,
   but I cant readily find it and have only been intermittently involved
   with the Pantera following over the years.
   If I get my facts wrong, forgive me. Some is based on research and some
   based on perception.
   351 Cleveland or Windsor?
   I need to build a motor for my car anyway. I do not have the original
   engine or anyA engine for it at this time. I have had several 351w
   motors over the years. I understand the following criteria to be true.
   Both motors displace the same number, approximately, of cubic inches.
   Both have the same bellhousing bolt pattern. Both have the same motor
   mount locations. The Windsor is slightly narrower, leaving
   theoretically more room for headers, fuel tanks, etc on either side.
   (?) length and height appear negligibly different.A
   The Windsor is lighter in pounds. According to a few online sources:
   A
   [1]http://www.mustangsandmore.com/ubb/EngineDimensions.html
   ....theA WindsorA  appears to be about 25A lbs lighter,A depending on
   source and configuration.A Not a huge benefit, but certainly not a
   drawback . The aftermarket support forA WindsorA family engines appears
   significantly larger...A everyA 289-302-351w cylinder headA isA an
   option.A Many different manufacturers and models fromA Trickflow,
   Brodix, AFR, Ford motorsport,A Edelbrock etc are to choose from. I know
   of 600-plus streetableA horsepower motors in both. I have a Windsor
   with similar performance numbers in my Cobra Replica. It was not hard
   to make 550 horse in the Windsor and parts were very easy to get
   through and through.
   My perception is that the Cleveland motor aftermarket support is much
   narrower, much more limited in choices for heads, intakes availability
   of good blocks, etc. Factory accessories, exhaustA systemsA etc are of
   no concern to me.
   So...the obvious forthcoming question...if originality wasn't a driving
   concern...why go Cleveland?? Whats the motivation other thanA purity? I
   find that aA majority of PanteraA enthusiastsA aren't purists anyway.
   Are their other fitment concernsA I'm not aware of?
   Thanks for your thoughts..
   Cullen
   .

References

   1. http://www.mustangsandmore.com/ubb/EngineDimensions.html