[DeTomaso] Marvic Wheels to remake Campagnola 10x15 ready fordeposits

Patrick HALS patrickhals at gmail.com
Mon Oct 26 13:33:54 EDT 2015


Yes, it's exactly what I said, Marvic !
But it 's better than GT5 as the rears are 14x15 like factory GR4 wheels,
and larger than 13. But they can keep the same tires if need be.
It fills the wheel arches much better. Direct bolt on .
There is just one new set of two rears at Marvic's, color to be chosen (
silber or gold )



Patrick Hals
+32.476.567.898

2015-10-26 18:25 GMT+01:00 Mike Gilmore <mgilmore11 at mchsi.com>:

> Hi! Is anyone reproducing the GT-5, 15x10 and 15x13 wheels? Thanks! Best
> regards, mike gilmore, 1984, GT-5
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Patrick HALS
> Sent: Monday, October 26, 2015 12:21 PM
> To: detomaso at poca.com ; Brian Dudley
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Marvic Wheels to remake Campagnola 10x15 ready
> fordeposits
>
> Hi Brian,
>
> Well, this is an interesting point you raise there !
> It is just the difference between a " copy " and a "fake". Let me please
> explain with some examples.
> Look for instance, at the red GR5 Pantera in the USA that had a gearbox
> problem last week end in racing, and was helped by Michael Shortt ( see it
> on FB ) . The car claims to be VIN 2862 ( like Candy ) Well, to be simple
> and straightforward, this is a fake car, as it claims to be the original
> factory car. I wouldn't say anything if they had the old GR5 design from
> 1976 , ( like they do ) and carry their real original VIN ( 6227ex Tino
> Pereira ) like they don't . But luckily, they are not even smart ! One,
> have you ever seen a factory GR4 Pantera ( or a street Pantera ) with a VIN
> stamped on the right side of the front hood, and second, did you notice
> that they have reproduced the same mistake they had made in the past  at
> the DT museum in 2004, when re-stamping the fake VIN on a fake GR4 , and
> now on the rebodied GR5. These guys are counterfeiters, and they deserve
> just our contempt. Just like the guys who make fake Rolex, fake Hermès,
> fake Gucci and so on ( or fake Viagra LOL ) Counterfeit name, lowest
> quality.
> For Marvic, they don't claim they make " an original Campagnolo wheel, made
> for DT" They make a Marvic wheel which is a faithful copy of the old
> original wheel, but they don't intend to mislead people .They act openly,
> and not as dishonest ones or counterfeiters.
> I bet the Marvic logo is or will be , like on new GR4 wheels, stamped
> INSIDE the wheel , to avoid ANY confusion.
> The same point was raised when we decided to produce Group 4 wheels , to
> replace the original 42 years old Candy wheels ( and others like on 2873).
> The new Gr4 wheels carry no reference to DT or Campagnolo.
> I assume the same motivation guided Marvic to apply the same method with
> the 10 inch wheels.
> Despite the fact that both DT and Campagnolo have long gone bankrupt, who
> knows if someone hasn't bought the rights to the names ( for DT, it is
> this, sadly, unknown Hong Kong company, for Campi, I don't know, but Marvic
> sure does )
> As a lawyer, and also if I was Marvic's owner-director, I would not take
> any chance to get a lawsuit from any person , company , inheritant of the
> names or design, claiming Marvic made a fake wheel. And "a fortiori " if
> only 5 or 10 sets are manufactured.
> I must state that I am very happy to have found a company that accepted to
> faithfully reproduce those old wheels, even in such a small quantity. .
> This is , I guess, the reason why they don't stamp DT or Campagnolo on the
> wheels
> The other foundries I had been in contact with in the past, had asked me
> for a minimum of 25 full sets ( 100 wheels ) + a significant deposit to
> start building the molds. Nothing like that with Marvic, they took the risk
> like big boys.
> About the price, the reason why it is expensive is simple : it takes three
> months or so to manufacture the mold, i.e. mold costs a fortune. Then,
> divide this price by 10 or 20 wheels, or divide it by 200 wheels, you will
> see the price drop instantly
> Finally, I must also stress that I feel much much better with new wheels on
> Candy when I am in the Mulsanne straight at Le Mans Classic or in
> Blanchimont in Spa , strolling at a gentle 180+ mph. And so is my family
> :>)) At this speed , if anything breaks, you instantly become a very lonely
> passenger between the steel barriers and the trees and time becomes endless
> .... Boy I hate this idea
> Best !
> Pat
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Brian Dudley <bd8134 at gmail.com>
> Date: 2015-10-26 5:00 GMT+01:00
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Marvic Wheels to remake Campagnola 10x15 ready for
> deposits
> To: Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net>
> Cc: Patrick HALS <patrickhals at gmail.com>, detomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
>
>
> Hi Pat,
>
> I am sure the construction of the Marvic wheels is very good and the
> duplication of the design looks excellent.
> The problem I see is that in the final mould they removed the Detomaso and
> Campagnola markings. These markings were clearly shown in drawings that Ed
> had sent out in his earlier emails. Though in the latest email from Ed, the
> pictures of the molds did not show any writing.
> I sent an email to Marvic and Silvia responded that the writing is not
> present, he sent a picture of the first raw wheel, added.
> I wanted wheels that would duplicate my original 10" wheels, and sadly the
> Marvic wheels do not.
>
> The Roin wheel does have Detomaso but no Campagnola.
>
> Maybe you or Ed can convince them to add the writing in.
> Silvia said the unit price of the 10"x15" wheel is Euro 1,555  ~ $1,700 +
> shipping.
> He said he can powder coat or leave them with just primer.
>
> All the best
> Brian
>
> Patrick Hals
> +32.476.567.898
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
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>
-------------- next part --------------
   Yes, it's exactly what I said, Marvic !A
   But it 's better than GT5 as the rears are 14x15 like factory GR4
   wheels, and larger than 13. But they can keep the same tires if need
   be.
   It fills the wheel arches much better. Direct bolt on .
   There is just one new set of two rears at Marvic's, color to be chosen
   ( silber or gold )A
   Patrick Hals
   +32.476.567.898
   2015-10-26 18:25 GMT+01:00 Mike Gilmore <[1]mgilmore11 at mchsi.com>:

     Hi! Is anyone reproducing the GT-5, 15x10 and 15x13 wheels? Thanks!
     Best regards, mike gilmore, 1984, GT-5
     -----Original Message----- From: Patrick HALS
     Sent: Monday, October 26, 2015 12:21 PM
     To: [2]detomaso at poca.com ; Brian Dudley
     Subject: [DeTomaso] Marvic Wheels to remake Campagnola 10x15 ready
     fordeposits
     Hi Brian,
     Well, this is an interesting point you raise there !
     It is just the difference between a " copy " and a "fake". Let me
     please
     explain with some examples.
     Look for instance, at the red GR5 Pantera in the USA that had a
     gearbox
     problem last week end in racing, and was helped by Michael Shortt (
     see it
     on FB ) . The car claims to be VIN 2862 ( like Candy ) Well, to be
     simple
     and straightforward, this is a fake car, as it claims to be the
     original
     factory car. I wouldn't say anything if they had the old GR5 design
     from
     1976 , ( like they do ) and carry their real original VIN ( 6227ex
     Tino
     Pereira ) like they don't . But luckily, they are not even smart !
     One,
     have you ever seen a factory GR4 Pantera ( or a street Pantera )
     with a VIN
     stamped on the right side of the front hood, and second, did you
     notice
     that they have reproduced the same mistake they had made in the
     pastA  at
     the DT museum in 2004, when re-stamping the fake VIN on a fake GR4 ,
     and
     now on the rebodied GR5. These guys are counterfeiters, and they
     deserve
     just our contempt. Just like the guys who make fake Rolex, fake
     HermA"s,
     fake Gucci and so on ( or fake Viagra LOL ) Counterfeit name, lowest
     quality.
     For Marvic, they don't claim they make " an original Campagnolo
     wheel, made
     for DT" They make a Marvic wheel which is a faithful copy of the old
     original wheel, but they don't intend to mislead people .They act
     openly,
     and not as dishonest ones or counterfeiters.
     I bet the Marvic logo is or will be , like on new GR4 wheels,
     stamped
     INSIDE the wheel , to avoid ANY confusion.
     The same point was raised when we decided to produce Group 4 wheels
     , to
     replace the original 42 years old Candy wheels ( and others like on
     2873).
     The new Gr4 wheels carry no reference to DT or Campagnolo.
     I assume the same motivation guided Marvic to apply the same method
     with
     the 10 inch wheels.
     Despite the fact that both DT and Campagnolo have long gone
     bankrupt, who
     knows if someone hasn't bought the rights to the names ( for DT, it
     is
     this, sadly, unknown Hong Kong company, for Campi, I don't know, but
     Marvic
     sure does )
     As a lawyer, and also if I was Marvic's owner-director, I would not
     take
     any chance to get a lawsuit from any person , company , inheritant
     of the
     names or design, claiming Marvic made a fake wheel. And "a fortiori
     " if
     only 5 or 10 sets are manufactured.
     I must state that I am very happy to have found a company that
     accepted to
     faithfully reproduce those old wheels, even in such a small
     quantity. .
     This is , I guess, the reason why they don't stamp DT or Campagnolo
     on the
     wheels
     The other foundries I had been in contact with in the past, had
     asked me
     for a minimum of 25 full sets ( 100 wheels ) + a significant deposit
     to
     start building the molds. Nothing like that with Marvic, they took
     the risk
     like big boys.
     About the price, the reason why it is expensive is simple : it takes
     three
     months or so to manufacture the mold, i.e. mold costs a fortune.
     Then,
     divide this price by 10 or 20 wheels, or divide it by 200 wheels,
     you will
     see the price drop instantly
     Finally, I must also stress that I feel much much better with new
     wheels on
     Candy when I am in the Mulsanne straight at Le Mans Classic or in
     Blanchimont in Spa , strolling at a gentle 180+ mph. And so is my
     family
     :>)) At this speed , if anything breaks, you instantly become a very
     lonely
     passenger between the steel barriers and the trees and time becomes
     endless
     .... Boy I hate this idea
     Best !
     Pat
     ---------- Forwarded message ----------
     From: Brian Dudley <[3]bd8134 at gmail.com>
     Date: 2015-10-26 5:00 GMT+01:00
     Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Marvic Wheels to remake Campagnola 10x15
     ready for
     deposits
     To: Charles Engles <[4]cengles at cox.net>
     Cc: Patrick HALS <[5]patrickhals at gmail.com>, detomaso
     <[6]detomaso at poca.com>
     Hi Pat,
     I am sure the construction of the Marvic wheels is very good and the
     duplication of the design looks excellent.
     The problem I see is that in the final mould they removed the
     Detomaso and
     Campagnola markings. These markings were clearly shown in drawings
     that Ed
     had sent out in his earlier emails. Though in the latest email from
     Ed, the
     pictures of the molds did not show any writing.
     I sent an email to Marvic and Silvia responded that the writing is
     not
     present, he sent a picture of the first raw wheel, added.
     I wanted wheels that would duplicate my original 10" wheels, and
     sadly the
     Marvic wheels do not.
     The Roin wheel does have Detomaso but no Campagnola.
     Maybe you or Ed can convince them to add the writing in.
     Silvia said the unit price of the 10"x15" wheel is Euro 1,555A  ~
     $1,700 +
     shipping.
     He said he can powder coat or leave them with just primer.
     All the best
     Brian
     Patrick Hals
     [7]+32.476.567.898
     _______________________________________________
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     Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
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References

   1. mailto:mgilmore11 at mchsi.com
   2. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
   3. mailto:bd8134 at gmail.com
   4. mailto:cengles at cox.net
   5. mailto:patrickhals at gmail.com
   6. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
   7. tel:%2B32.476.567.898
   8. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
   9. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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