[DeTomaso] Marvic Wheels to remake Campagnola 10x15 ready for deposits

[Patrick HALS]

Hi Brian,

Well, this is an interesting point you raise there !
It is just the difference between a " copy " and a "fake". Let me please
explain with some examples.
Look for instance, at the red GR5 Pantera in the USA that had a gearbox
problem last week end in racing, and was helped by Michael Shortt ( see it
on FB ) . The car claims to be VIN 2862 ( like Candy ) Well, to be simple
and straightforward, this is a fake car, as it claims to be the original
factory car. I wouldn't say anything if they had the old GR5 design from
1976 , ( like they do ) and carry their real original VIN ( 6227ex Tino
Pereira ) like they don't . But luckily, they are not even smart ! One,
have you ever seen a factory GR4 Pantera ( or a street Pantera ) with a VIN
stamped on the right side of the front hood, and second, did you notice
that they have reproduced the same mistake they had made in the past  at
the DT museum in 2004, when re-stamping the fake VIN on a fake GR4 , and
now on the rebodied GR5. These guys are counterfeiters, and they deserve
just our contempt. Just like the guys who make fake Rolex, fake Hermès,
fake Gucci and so on ( or fake Viagra LOL ) Counterfeit name, lowest
quality.
For Marvic, they don't claim they make " an original Campagnolo wheel, made
for DT" They make a Marvic wheel which is a faithful copy of the old
original wheel, but they don't intend to mislead people .They act openly,
and not as dishonest ones or counterfeiters.
I bet the Marvic logo is or will be , like on new GR4 wheels, stamped
INSIDE the wheel , to avoid ANY confusion.
The same point was raised when we decided to produce Group 4 wheels , to
replace the original 42 years old Candy wheels ( and others like on 2873).
The new Gr4 wheels carry no reference to DT or Campagnolo.
I assume the same motivation guided Marvic to apply the same method with
the 10 inch wheels.
Despite the fact that both DT and Campagnolo have long gone bankrupt, who
knows if someone hasn't bought the rights to the names ( for DT, it is
this, sadly, unknown Hong Kong company, for Campi, I don't know, but Marvic
sure does )
As a lawyer, and also if I was Marvic's owner-director, I would not take
any chance to get a lawsuit from any person , company , inheritant of the
names or design, claiming Marvic made a fake wheel. And "a fortiori " if
only 5 or 10 sets are manufactured.
I must state that I am very happy to have found a company that accepted to
faithfully reproduce those old wheels, even in such a small quantity. .
This is , I guess, the reason why they don't stamp DT or Campagnolo on the
wheels
The other foundries I had been in contact with in the past, had asked me
for a minimum of 25 full sets ( 100 wheels ) + a significant deposit to
start building the molds. Nothing like that with Marvic, they took the risk
like big boys.
About the price, the reason why it is expensive is simple : it takes three
months or so to manufacture the mold, i.e. mold costs a fortune. Then,
divide this price by 10 or 20 wheels, or divide it by 200 wheels, you will
see the price drop instantly
Finally, I must also stress that I feel much much better with new wheels on
Candy when I am in the Mulsanne straight at Le Mans Classic or in
Blanchimont in Spa , strolling at a gentle 180+ mph. And so is my family
:>)) At this speed , if anything breaks, you instantly become a very lonely
passenger between the steel barriers and the trees and time becomes endless
.... Boy I hate this idea
Best !
Pat

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Brian Dudley <bd8134 at gmail.com>
Date: 2015-10-26 5:00 GMT+01:00
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Marvic Wheels to remake Campagnola 10x15 ready for
deposits
To: Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net>
Cc: Patrick HALS <patrickhals at gmail.com>, detomaso <detomaso at poca.com>


Hi Pat,

I am sure the construction of the Marvic wheels is very good and the
duplication of the design looks excellent.
The problem I see is that in the final mould they removed the Detomaso and
Campagnola markings. These markings were clearly shown in drawings that Ed
had sent out in his earlier emails. Though in the latest email from Ed, the
pictures of the molds did not show any writing.
I sent an email to Marvic and Silvia responded that the writing is not
present, he sent a picture of the first raw wheel, added.
I wanted wheels that would duplicate my original 10" wheels, and sadly the
Marvic wheels do not.

The Roin wheel does have Detomaso but no Campagnola.

Maybe you or Ed can convince them to add the writing in.
Silvia said the unit price of the 10"x15" wheel is Euro 1,555  ~ $1,700 +
shipping.
He said he can powder coat or leave them with just primer.

All the best
Brian

Patrick Hals
+32.476.567.898
-------------- next part --------------
   Hi Brian,A
   Well, this is an interesting point you raise there !A
   It is just the difference between a " copy " and a "fake". Let me
   please explain with some examples.
   Look for instance, at the red GR5 Pantera in the USA that had a gearbox
   problem last week end in racing, and was helped by Michael Shortt ( see
   it on FB ) . The car claims to be VIN 2862 ( like Candy ) Well, to be
   simple and straightforward, this is a fake car, as it claims to be the
   original factory car. I wouldn't say anything if they had the old GR5
   design from 1976 , ( like they do ) and carry their real original VIN (
   6227ex Tino Pereira ) like they don't . But luckily, they are not even
   smart ! One, have you ever seen a factory GR4 Pantera ( or a street
   Pantera ) with a VIN stamped on the right side of the front hood, and
   second, did you notice that they have reproduced the same mistake they
   had made in the past A at the DT museum in 2004, when re-stamping the
   fake VIN on a fake GR4 , and now on the rebodied GR5. These guys are
   counterfeiters, and they deserve just our contempt. Just like the guys
   who make fake Rolex, fake HermA"s, fake Gucci and so on ( or fake
   Viagra LOL ) Counterfeit name, lowest quality.
   For Marvic, they don't claim they make " an original Campagnolo wheel,
   made for DT" They make a Marvic wheel which is a faithful copy of the
   old original wheel, but they don't intend to mislead people .They act
   openly, and not as dishonest ones or counterfeiters.A
   I bet the Marvic logo is or will be , like on new GR4 wheels, stamped
   INSIDE the wheel , to avoid ANY confusion.
   The same point was raised when we decided to produce Group 4 wheels ,
   to replace the original 42 years old Candy wheels ( and others like on
   2873).A
   The new Gr4 wheels carry no reference to DT or Campagnolo.
   I assume the same motivation guided Marvic to apply the same method
   with the 10 inch wheels.A
   Despite the fact that both DT and Campagnolo have long gone bankrupt,
   who knows if someone hasn't bought the rights to the names ( for DT, it
   is this, sadly, unknown Hong Kong company, for Campi, I don't know, but
   Marvic sure does )
   As a lawyer, and also if I was Marvic's owner-director, I would not
   take any chance to get a lawsuit from any person , company , inheritant
   of the names or design, claiming Marvic made a fake wheel. And "a
   fortiori " if only 5 or 10 sets are manufactured.
   I must state that I am very happy to have found a company that accepted
   to faithfully reproduce those old wheels, even in such a small
   quantity. .A
   This is , I guess, the reason why they don't stamp DT or Campagnolo on
   the wheels
   The other foundries I had been in contact with in the past, had asked
   me for a minimum of 25 full sets ( 100 wheels ) + a significant deposit
   to start building the molds. Nothing like that with Marvic, they took
   the risk like big boys.A
   About the price, the reason why it is expensive is simple : it takes
   three months or so to manufacture the mold, i.e. mold costs a fortune.
   Then, divide this price by 10 or 20 wheels, or divide it by 200 wheels,
   you will see the price drop instantly
   Finally, I must also stress that I feel much much better with new
   wheels on Candy when I am in the Mulsanne straight at Le Mans Classic
   or in Blanchimont in Spa , strolling at a gentle 180+ mph. And so is my
   family :>)) At this speed , if anything breaks, you instantly become a
   very lonely passenger between the steel barriers and the trees and time
   becomes endless .... Boy I hate this ideaA
   Best !A
   Pat
   ---------- Forwarded message ----------
   From:A Brian DudleyA <[1]bd8134 at gmail.com>
   Date: 2015-10-26 5:00 GMT+01:00
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Marvic Wheels to remake Campagnola 10x15 ready
   for deposits
   To: Charles Engles <[2]cengles at cox.net>
   Cc: Patrick HALS <[3]patrickhals at gmail.com>, detomaso
   <[4]detomaso at poca.com>
   Hi Pat,
   I am sure the construction of the Marvic wheels is very good and the
   duplication of the design looks excellent.A
   The problem I see is that in the final mould they removed the Detomaso
   and Campagnola markings. These markings were clearly shown in drawings
   that Ed had sent out in his earlier emails. Though in the latest email
   from Ed, the pictures of the molds did not show any writing.
   I sent an email to Marvic and Silvia responded that the writing is not
   present, he sent a picture of the first raw wheel, added.
   I wanted wheels that would duplicate my original 10" wheels, and sadly
   the Marvic wheels do not.
   The Roin wheel does have Detomaso but no Campagnola.
   Maybe you or Ed can convince them to addA the writing in.
   Silvia said the unit price of the 10"x15" wheel is Euro 1,555 A ~
   $1,700 + shipping.
   He said he can powder coat or leave them with just primer.
   All the best
   Brian
   Patrick Hals
   +32.476.567.898

References

   1. mailto:bd8134 at gmail.com
   2. mailto:cengles at cox.net
   3. mailto:patrickhals at gmail.com
   4. mailto:detomaso at poca.com