[DeTomaso] Techno question: a fine mess--update II
Michael Shortt
michaelsavga at gmail.com
Sun Oct 11 19:15:15 EDT 2015
Hesitant to jump in, can't hear the noise, etc.
I had a similar issue with a high pitched whistle that went away under
throttle, side effect was the car would not maintain idle speed after
adjustment, always finding a way to climb to 1,600 rpms.
Turned out to be a vacuum leak on the front corner of the left cylinder
head.
Replaced head to intake gaskets, purrs little a cat at 800 rpm all day long.
Michael Shortt
On Oct 11, 2015 6:17 PM, "Charles Engles" <cengles at cox.net> wrote:
> Dear Jack,
>
>
> Hmm. This noise is there at idle and quickly
> disappears with slight throttle. Last year I went through most of the
> engine and the timing set checked out good just about two thousand
> miles ago. IIRC, it is a good quality RollMaster set. I have
> listened to the front timing cover multiple times, but I don't hear
> anything suspicious.
>
>
>
> I hate mysteries, but I think that I will button it
> up and take it on the scheduled road trip next weekend. I am
> confident that it is not something bad.
>
>
>
> Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
>
>
> From: jderyke at aol.com [mailto:jderyke at aol.com]
> Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2015 4:42 PM
> To: cengles at cox.net; gaino at earthlink.net; asajay at asajay.com;
> MikeLDrew at aol.com; julian_kift at hotmail.com
> Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno question: a fine mess--update II
>
>
> Chuck, at a tech session years ago, an engine was making an odd sort of
> noise much like you describe. It turned out to be a horribly stretched
> timing chain- the chain was stroking the inside of the block extension
> under even slight acceleration! The chain supposedly had 20,000 miles
> on it. How long ago was it you built up that motor? Try your
> stethoscope on the timing chain cover plate, low on the passenger side.
> Cheers- J DeRyke
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Charles Engles <[1]cengles at cox.net>
> To: 'bill gaino' <[2]gaino at earthlink.net>; 'Asa Jay Laughton'
> <[3]asajay at asajay.com>; MikeLDrew <[4]MikeLDrew at aol.com>; 'Julian Kift'
> <[5]julian_kift at hotmail.com>
> Cc: 'De Tomaso List' <[6]detomaso at poca.com>
> Sent: Sun, Oct 11, 2015 8:45 am
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno question: a fine mess--update II
> Dear Bill and Asa, et al,
>
>
> Test drive without the AC belt still
> showed noise. While the engine was still warm, I removed the alternator
> belt.
> To my surprise, the chirpy noise is still there. The garden hose
> stethoscope
> seemed to show that it was maximal within the bowl of the crank pulley.
> Hmmm??? No noise from the oil pan nor water pump (obviously).
>
>
> Next, I removed the crank pulley and the noise is still chirping away. I
> checked again that the balancer isn't hitting anything on its backside and
> a
> wire hanger feeler shows nothing between the back of the balancer and the
> front
> cover or oil pan.
>
> Next, I could only imagine that I had somehow
> not torque the balancer bolt well and that it was loose. Sorry, it is
> tight and
> I am sure that it has a dose of anti seize and the correct torque.
>
>
> The balancer is a BHJ and is about nine years old with about 10k miles. It
> looks good. It was recently out and reinstalled last year before the
> Houston
> Rally. No noise was noticed until afterwards while driving "normally" in
> town,
> etc. Sounded like a belt, but it isn't all belt noise.
>
> I suppose
> the next step would be to loosen the balancer bolt, again apply a touch of
> antiseize if it looks like it needs it and then retorque.
>
>
>
> Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bill
> gaino [[7]mailto:gaino at earthlink.net]
> Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2015 9:09 AM
> To:
> Charles Engles
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno question: a fine
> mess--update
>
> Charles, I went thhrough this with a corvette it turned out to
> be a loose harmonic balancer bolt. Big one that goes in the end of crank.
> Bill
> 1362
>
>
> [8]
> https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref=ts&fref=ts
> If
> you want it slick. [9]www.slickpaint.com like us on facebook
>
>
> -----Original
> Message-----
> >From: Charles Engles <[10]cengles at cox.net>
> >Sent: Oct 10, 2015 9:30
> PM
> >To: [11]detomaso at poca.com
> >Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno question: a fine
> mess--update
> >
> >Dear Forum,
> >
> >
> > It is still a fine mess. The
> gremlins are well entrenched.
> >At this point, I have:
> >
> >1) ascertained
> that the balancer isn't hitting the block or pan
> >
> >2) been unable to localize
> precisely the noise source despite the
> >mechanic's stethoscope or the garden
> hose stethoscope (it actually
> >works a little better in this instance, but
> still not a success). It
> >is coming from the front of the engine-belt
> area.
> >
> >3) replaced the alternator: no change and now the ammeter needle
>
> >bounces
> >
> >4) ascertained that I do have an electronic voltage regulator
> from
> >Motorcraft
> >
> >5) replaced both belts: no change other than a slight
> decrease in
> >loudness and slightly different quality to the noise
> >
> >6)
> replaced the idler pulley: no change. Sigh. The old pulley does feel
> >like
> the bearing is starting to go out compared to the smoothness of
> >the
> replacement, but still no noise silencing with the change.
> >
> >
> > I am
> perturbed. I have removed the new AC belt and I will test
> >again tomorrow to
> see if I have finally localized the noise maker. I
> >am thinking about trying
> some of the belt treatments for squeaking
> >since I have replaced *everything*
> at this point.
> >
> >
> > With apologies to Mr. Friedman's famous quote: "
> Sadder, older,
> >wiser, I go now, seeking through faith and reason combined
> the answer
> >to this baffling pageant which is the Pantera and the small by
> play,
> >which is my amateur wrenching."
> >
> >
> >
> Philosophically yours, Chuck Engles
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >
> >Detomaso Forum
> Managed by POCA
> >Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing
> list
> >[12]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [13]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> >
> >To manage your
> subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links
> above.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum
> Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing
> list
> [14]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [15]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> To
> manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the
> links
> above.
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:cengles at cox.net
> 2. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
> 3. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
> 4. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
> 5. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
> 6. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 7. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net?
> 8.
> https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref=ts&fref=ts
> 9. http://www.slickpaint.com/
> 10. mailto:cengles at cox.net
> 11. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 12. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 13. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 14. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 15. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use
> the links above.
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
Hesitant to jump in, can't hear the noise, etc.
I had a similar issue with a high pitched whistle that went away under
throttle, side effect was the car would not maintain idle speed after
adjustment,A always finding a way to climb to 1,600 rpms.
Turned out to be a vacuum leak on the front corner of the left cylinder
head.
Replaced head to intake gaskets, purrs little a cat at 800 rpm all day
long.
Michael Shortt
On Oct 11, 2015 6:17 PM, "Charles Engles" <[1]cengles at cox.net> wrote:
A A Dear Jack,
A A A A A A A A A A Hmm.A This noise is there at idle and
quickly
A A disappears with slight throttle.A A Last year I went through
most of the
A A engine and the timing set checked out good just about two
thousand
A A miles ago.A IIRC, it is a good quality RollMaster set.A A I
have
A A listened to the front timing cover multiple times, but I don't
hear
A A anything suspicious.
A A A A A A A A A A A I hate mysteries, but I think that I
will button it
A A up and take it on the scheduled road trip next weekend.A A I
am
A A confident that it is not something bad.
A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A Warmest
regards,A Chuck Engles
A A From: [2]jderyke at aol.com [mailto:[3]jderyke at aol.com]
A A Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2015 4:42 PM
A A To: [4]cengles at cox.net; [5]gaino at earthlink.net;
[6]asajay at asajay.com;
A A [7]MikeLDrew at aol.com; [8]julian_kift at hotmail.com
A A Cc: [9]detomaso at poca.com
A A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno question: a fine mess--update II
A A Chuck, at a tech session years ago, an engine was making an odd
sort of
A A noise much like you describe. It turned out to be a horribly
stretched
A A timing chain- the chain was stroking the inside of the block
extension
A A under even slight acceleration! The chain supposedly had 20,000
miles
A A on it. How long ago was it you built up that motor? Try your
A A stethoscope on the timing chain cover plate, low on the
passenger side.
A A Cheers- J DeRyke
A A -----Original Message-----
A A From: Charles Engles <[1][10]cengles at cox.net>
A A To: 'bill gaino' <[2][11]gaino at earthlink.net>; 'Asa Jay
Laughton'
A A <[3][12]asajay at asajay.com>; MikeLDrew
<[4][13]MikeLDrew at aol.com>; 'Julian Kift'
A A <[5][14]julian_kift at hotmail.com>
A A Cc: 'De Tomaso List' <[6][15]detomaso at poca.com>
A A Sent: Sun, Oct 11, 2015 8:45 am
A A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno question: a fine mess--update II
Dear Bill and Asa, et al,
A A A A A A Test drive without the AC belt still
showed noise.A A While the engine was still warm, I removed the
alternator belt.
To my surprise, the chirpy noise is still there.A The garden hose
stethoscope
seemed to show that it was maximal within the bowl of the crank
pulley.
Hmmm???A No noise from the oil pan nor water pump (obviously).
Next, I removed the crank pulley and the noise is still chirping
away.A A I
checked again that the balancer isn't hitting anything on its
backside and a
wire hanger feeler shows nothing between the back of the balancer
and the front
cover or oil pan.
A A A A A A Next, I could only imagine that I had somehow
not torque the balancer bolt well and that it was loose.A Sorry, it
is tight and
I am sure that it has a dose of anti seize and the correct torque.
The balancer is a BHJ and is about nine years old with about 10k
miles.A It
looks good.A It was recently out and reinstalled last year before
the Houston
Rally.A No noise was noticed until afterwards while driving
"normally" in town,
etc.A A Sounded like a belt, but it isn't all belt noise.
A A A A A A I suppose
the next step would be to loosen the balancer bolt, again apply a
touch of
antiseize if it looks like it needs it and then retorque.
Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
-----Original Message-----
From: bill
gaino [[7]mailto:[16]gaino at earthlink.net]
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2015 9:09 AM
To:
Charles Engles
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno question: a fine
mess--update
Charles, I went thhrough this with a corvette it turned out to
be a loose harmonic balancer bolt. Big one that goes in the end of
crank.A Bill
1362
[8][17]https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?
ref=ts&fref=ts
If
you want it slick.A [9][18]www.slickpaint.comA like us on facebook
-----Original
Message-----
>From: Charles Engles <[10][19]cengles at cox.net>
>Sent: Oct 10, 2015 9:30
PM
>To: [11][20]detomaso at poca.com
>Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno question: a fine
mess--update
>
>Dear Forum,
>
>
>A A A A A A It is still a fine mess.A The
gremlins are well entrenched.
>At this point, I have:
>
>1) ascertained
that the balancer isn't hitting the block or pan
>
>2) been unable to localize
precisely the noise source despite the
>mechanic's stethoscope or the garden
hose stethoscope (it actually
>works a little better in this instance, but
still not a success).A It
>is coming from the front of the engine-belt
area.
>
>3) replaced the alternator: no change and now the ammeter needle
>bounces
>
>4) ascertained that I do have an electronic voltage regulator
from
>Motorcraft
>
>5) replaced both belts: no change other thanA a slight
decrease in
>loudness and slightly different quality to the noise
>
>6)
replaced the idler pulley:A no change. Sigh.A A The old pulley
does feel
>like
the bearing is starting to go out compared to the smoothness of
>the
replacement, but still no noise silencing with the change.
>
>
>A A A A I am
perturbed.A I have removed the new AC belt and I will test
>again tomorrow to
see if I have finally localized the noise maker.A I
>am thinking about trying
some of the belt treatments for squeaking
>since I have replaced *everything*
at this point.
>
>
>A A A A With apologies to Mr. Friedman's famous quote: "
Sadder, older,
>wiser, I go now, seeking through faith and reason combined
the answer
>to this baffling pageant which is the Pantera and the small by
play,
>which is my amateur wrenching."
>
>
>
Philosophically yours,A Chuck Engles
>
>
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>Detomaso Forum
Managed by POCA
>Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing
list
>[12][21]DeTomaso at poca.com
[13][22]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>To manage your
subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links
above.
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References
A A 1. mailto:[25]cengles at cox.net
A A 2. mailto:[26]gaino at earthlink.net
A A 3. mailto:[27]asajay at asajay.com
A A 4. mailto:[28]MikeLDrew at aol.com
A A 5. mailto:[29]julian_kift at hotmail.com
A A 6. mailto:[30]detomaso at poca.com
A A 7. mailto:[31]gaino at earthlink.net?
A A 8.
[32]https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref
=ts&fref=ts
A A 9. [33]http://www.slickpaint.com/
A 10. mailto:[34]cengles at cox.net
A 11. mailto:[35]detomaso at poca.com
A 12. mailto:[36]DeTomaso at poca.com
A 13. [37]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
A 14. mailto:[38]DeTomaso at poca.com
A 15. [39]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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References
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2. mailto:jderyke at aol.com
3. mailto:jderyke at aol.com
4. mailto:cengles at cox.net
5. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
6. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
7. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
8. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
9. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
10. mailto:cengles at cox.net
11. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
12. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
13. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
14. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
15. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
16. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
17. https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref=ts&fref=ts
18. http://www.slickpaint.com/
19. mailto:cengles at cox.net
20. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
21. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
22. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
23. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
24. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
25. mailto:cengles at cox.net
26. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
27. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
28. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
29. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
30. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
31. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
32. https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref=ts&fref=ts
33. http://www.slickpaint.com/
34. mailto:cengles at cox.net
35. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
36. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
37. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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