[DeTomaso] Techno question: a fine mess--update II

Michael Shortt michaelsavga at gmail.com
Sun Oct 11 19:15:15 EDT 2015


Hesitant to jump in, can't hear the noise, etc.
I had a similar issue with a high pitched whistle that went away under
throttle, side effect was the car would not maintain idle speed after
adjustment,  always finding a way to climb to 1,600 rpms.
Turned out to be a vacuum leak on the front corner of the left cylinder
head.
Replaced head to intake gaskets, purrs little a cat at 800 rpm all day long.

Michael Shortt
On Oct 11, 2015 6:17 PM, "Charles Engles" <cengles at cox.net> wrote:

>    Dear Jack,
>
>
>                     Hmm.  This noise is there at idle and quickly
>    disappears with slight throttle.   Last year I went through most of the
>    engine and the timing set checked out good just about two thousand
>    miles ago.  IIRC, it is a good quality RollMaster set.   I have
>    listened to the front timing cover multiple times, but I don't hear
>    anything suspicious.
>
>
>
>                      I hate mysteries, but I think that I will button it
>    up and take it on the scheduled road trip next weekend.   I am
>    confident that it is not something bad.
>
>
>
>                                         Warmest regards,  Chuck Engles
>
>
>    From: jderyke at aol.com [mailto:jderyke at aol.com]
>    Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2015 4:42 PM
>    To: cengles at cox.net; gaino at earthlink.net; asajay at asajay.com;
>    MikeLDrew at aol.com; julian_kift at hotmail.com
>    Cc: detomaso at poca.com
>    Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno question: a fine mess--update II
>
>
>    Chuck, at a tech session years ago, an engine was making an odd sort of
>    noise much like you describe. It turned out to be a horribly stretched
>    timing chain- the chain was stroking the inside of the block extension
>    under even slight acceleration! The chain supposedly had 20,000 miles
>    on it. How long ago was it you built up that motor? Try your
>    stethoscope on the timing chain cover plate, low on the passenger side.
>    Cheers- J DeRyke
>
>
>
>
>    -----Original Message-----
>    From: Charles Engles <[1]cengles at cox.net>
>    To: 'bill gaino' <[2]gaino at earthlink.net>; 'Asa Jay Laughton'
>    <[3]asajay at asajay.com>; MikeLDrew <[4]MikeLDrew at aol.com>; 'Julian Kift'
>    <[5]julian_kift at hotmail.com>
>    Cc: 'De Tomaso List' <[6]detomaso at poca.com>
>    Sent: Sun, Oct 11, 2015 8:45 am
>    Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno question: a fine mess--update II
> Dear Bill and Asa, et al,
>
>
>            Test drive without the AC belt still
> showed noise.   While the engine was still warm, I removed the alternator
> belt.
> To my surprise, the chirpy noise is still there.  The garden hose
> stethoscope
> seemed to show that it was maximal within the bowl of the crank pulley.
> Hmmm???  No noise from the oil pan nor water pump (obviously).
>
>
> Next, I removed the crank pulley and the noise is still chirping away.   I
> checked again that the balancer isn't hitting anything on its backside and
> a
> wire hanger feeler shows nothing between the back of the balancer and the
> front
> cover or oil pan.
>
>            Next, I could only imagine that I had somehow
> not torque the balancer bolt well and that it was loose.  Sorry, it is
> tight and
> I am sure that it has a dose of anti seize and the correct torque.
>
>
> The balancer is a BHJ and is about nine years old with about 10k miles.  It
> looks good.  It was recently out and reinstalled last year before the
> Houston
> Rally.  No noise was noticed until afterwards while driving "normally" in
> town,
> etc.   Sounded like a belt, but it isn't all belt noise.
>
>            I suppose
> the next step would be to loosen the balancer bolt, again apply a touch of
> antiseize if it looks like it needs it and then retorque.
>
>
>
> Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bill
> gaino [[7]mailto:gaino at earthlink.net]
> Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2015 9:09 AM
> To:
> Charles Engles
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno question: a fine
> mess--update
>
> Charles, I went thhrough this with a corvette it turned out to
> be a loose harmonic balancer bolt. Big one that goes in the end of crank.
> Bill
> 1362
>
>
> [8]
> https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref=ts&fref=ts
> If
> you want it slick.  [9]www.slickpaint.com  like us on facebook
>
>
> -----Original
> Message-----
> >From: Charles Engles <[10]cengles at cox.net>
> >Sent: Oct 10, 2015 9:30
> PM
> >To: [11]detomaso at poca.com
> >Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno question: a fine
> mess--update
> >
> >Dear Forum,
> >
> >
> >           It is still a fine mess.  The
> gremlins are well entrenched.
> >At this point, I have:
> >
> >1) ascertained
> that the balancer isn't hitting the block or pan
> >
> >2) been unable to localize
> precisely the noise source despite the
> >mechanic's stethoscope or the garden
> hose stethoscope (it actually
> >works a little better in this instance, but
> still not a success).  It
> >is coming from the front of the engine-belt
> area.
> >
> >3) replaced the alternator: no change and now the ammeter needle
>
> >bounces
> >
> >4) ascertained that I do have an electronic voltage regulator
> from
> >Motorcraft
> >
> >5) replaced both belts: no change other than  a slight
> decrease in
> >loudness and slightly different quality to the noise
> >
> >6)
> replaced the idler pulley:  no change. Sigh.   The old pulley does feel
> >like
> the bearing is starting to go out compared to the smoothness of
> >the
> replacement, but still no noise silencing with the change.
> >
> >
> >        I am
> perturbed.  I have removed the new AC belt and I will test
> >again tomorrow to
> see if I have finally localized the noise maker.  I
> >am thinking about trying
> some of the belt treatments for squeaking
> >since I have replaced *everything*
> at this point.
> >
> >
> >        With apologies to Mr. Friedman's famous quote: "
> Sadder, older,
> >wiser, I go now, seeking through faith and reason combined
> the answer
> >to this baffling pageant which is the Pantera and the small by
> play,
> >which is my amateur wrenching."
> >
> >
> >
> Philosophically yours,  Chuck Engles
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >
> >Detomaso Forum
> Managed by POCA
> >Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing
> list
> >[12]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [13]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> >
> >To manage your
> subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links
> above.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum
> Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing
> list
> [14]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [15]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> To
> manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the
> links
> above.
>
> References
>
>    1. mailto:cengles at cox.net
>    2. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
>    3. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
>    4. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
>    5. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
>    6. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>    7. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net?
>    8.
> https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref=ts&fref=ts
>    9. http://www.slickpaint.com/
>   10. mailto:cengles at cox.net
>   11. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>   12. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>   13. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>   14. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>   15. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use
> the links above.
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
   Hesitant to jump in, can't hear the noise, etc.
   I had a similar issue with a high pitched whistle that went away under
   throttle, side effect was the car would not maintain idle speed after
   adjustment,A  always finding a way to climb to 1,600 rpms.
   Turned out to be a vacuum leak on the front corner of the left cylinder
   head.
   Replaced head to intake gaskets, purrs little a cat at 800 rpm all day
   long.

   Michael Shortt

   On Oct 11, 2015 6:17 PM, "Charles Engles" <[1]cengles at cox.net> wrote:

     A  A Dear Jack,
     A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A  Hmm.A  This noise is there at idle and
     quickly
     A  A disappears with slight throttle.A  A Last year I went through
     most of the
     A  A engine and the timing set checked out good just about two
     thousand
     A  A miles ago.A  IIRC, it is a good quality RollMaster set.A  A I
     have
     A  A listened to the front timing cover multiple times, but I don't
     hear
     A  A anything suspicious.
     A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A I hate mysteries, but I think that I
     will button it
     A  A up and take it on the scheduled road trip next weekend.A  A I
     am
     A  A confident that it is not something bad.
     A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A  Warmest
     regards,A  Chuck Engles
     A  A From: [2]jderyke at aol.com [mailto:[3]jderyke at aol.com]
     A  A Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2015 4:42 PM
     A  A To: [4]cengles at cox.net; [5]gaino at earthlink.net;
     [6]asajay at asajay.com;
     A  A [7]MikeLDrew at aol.com; [8]julian_kift at hotmail.com
     A  A Cc: [9]detomaso at poca.com
     A  A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno question: a fine mess--update II
     A  A Chuck, at a tech session years ago, an engine was making an odd
     sort of
     A  A noise much like you describe. It turned out to be a horribly
     stretched
     A  A timing chain- the chain was stroking the inside of the block
     extension
     A  A under even slight acceleration! The chain supposedly had 20,000
     miles
     A  A on it. How long ago was it you built up that motor? Try your
     A  A stethoscope on the timing chain cover plate, low on the
     passenger side.
     A  A Cheers- J DeRyke
     A  A -----Original Message-----
     A  A From: Charles Engles <[1][10]cengles at cox.net>
     A  A To: 'bill gaino' <[2][11]gaino at earthlink.net>; 'Asa Jay
     Laughton'
     A  A <[3][12]asajay at asajay.com>; MikeLDrew
     <[4][13]MikeLDrew at aol.com>; 'Julian Kift'
     A  A <[5][14]julian_kift at hotmail.com>
     A  A Cc: 'De Tomaso List' <[6][15]detomaso at poca.com>
     A  A Sent: Sun, Oct 11, 2015 8:45 am
     A  A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno question: a fine mess--update II
     Dear Bill and Asa, et al,
     A  A  A  A  A  A Test drive without the AC belt still
     showed noise.A  A While the engine was still warm, I removed the
     alternator belt.
     To my surprise, the chirpy noise is still there.A  The garden hose
     stethoscope
     seemed to show that it was maximal within the bowl of the crank
     pulley.
     Hmmm???A  No noise from the oil pan nor water pump (obviously).
     Next, I removed the crank pulley and the noise is still chirping
     away.A  A I
     checked again that the balancer isn't hitting anything on its
     backside and a
     wire hanger feeler shows nothing between the back of the balancer
     and the front
     cover or oil pan.
     A  A  A  A  A  A Next, I could only imagine that I had somehow
     not torque the balancer bolt well and that it was loose.A  Sorry, it
     is tight and
     I am sure that it has a dose of anti seize and the correct torque.
     The balancer is a BHJ and is about nine years old with about 10k
     miles.A  It
     looks good.A  It was recently out and reinstalled last year before
     the Houston
     Rally.A  No noise was noticed until afterwards while driving
     "normally" in town,
     etc.A  A Sounded like a belt, but it isn't all belt noise.
     A  A  A  A  A  A I suppose
     the next step would be to loosen the balancer bolt, again apply a
     touch of
     antiseize if it looks like it needs it and then retorque.
     Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
     -----Original Message-----
     From: bill
     gaino [[7]mailto:[16]gaino at earthlink.net]
     Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2015 9:09 AM
     To:
     Charles Engles
     Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno question: a fine
     mess--update
     Charles, I went thhrough this with a corvette it turned out to
     be a loose harmonic balancer bolt. Big one that goes in the end of
     crank.A  Bill
     1362
     [8][17]https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?
     ref=ts&fref=ts
     If
     you want it slick.A  [9][18]www.slickpaint.comA  like us on facebook
     -----Original
     Message-----
     >From: Charles Engles <[10][19]cengles at cox.net>
     >Sent: Oct 10, 2015 9:30
     PM
     >To: [11][20]detomaso at poca.com
     >Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno question: a fine
     mess--update
     >
     >Dear Forum,
     >
     >
     >A  A  A  A  A  A It is still a fine mess.A  The
     gremlins are well entrenched.
     >At this point, I have:
     >
     >1) ascertained
     that the balancer isn't hitting the block or pan
     >
     >2) been unable to localize
     precisely the noise source despite the
     >mechanic's stethoscope or the garden
     hose stethoscope (it actually
     >works a little better in this instance, but
     still not a success).A  It
     >is coming from the front of the engine-belt
     area.
     >
     >3) replaced the alternator: no change and now the ammeter needle
     >bounces
     >
     >4) ascertained that I do have an electronic voltage regulator
     from
     >Motorcraft
     >
     >5) replaced both belts: no change other thanA  a slight
     decrease in
     >loudness and slightly different quality to the noise
     >
     >6)
     replaced the idler pulley:A  no change. Sigh.A  A The old pulley
     does feel
     >like
     the bearing is starting to go out compared to the smoothness of
     >the
     replacement, but still no noise silencing with the change.
     >
     >
     >A  A  A  A  I am
     perturbed.A  I have removed the new AC belt and I will test
     >again tomorrow to
     see if I have finally localized the noise maker.A  I
     >am thinking about trying
     some of the belt treatments for squeaking
     >since I have replaced *everything*
     at this point.
     >
     >
     >A  A  A  A  With apologies to Mr. Friedman's famous quote: "
     Sadder, older,
     >wiser, I go now, seeking through faith and reason combined
     the answer
     >to this baffling pageant which is the Pantera and the small by
     play,
     >which is my amateur wrenching."
     >
     >
     >
     Philosophically yours,A  Chuck Engles
     >
     >
     >
     >
     >
     >
     >_______________________________________________
     >
     >Detomaso Forum
     Managed by POCA
     >Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing
     list
     >[12][21]DeTomaso at poca.com
     [13][22]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
     >
     >To manage your
     subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links
     above.
     _______________________________________________
     Detomaso Forum
     Managed by POCA
     Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
     DeTomaso mailing
     list
     [14][23]DeTomaso at poca.com
     [15][24]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
     To
     manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
     use the links
     above.
     References
     A  A 1. mailto:[25]cengles at cox.net
     A  A 2. mailto:[26]gaino at earthlink.net
     A  A 3. mailto:[27]asajay at asajay.com
     A  A 4. mailto:[28]MikeLDrew at aol.com
     A  A 5. mailto:[29]julian_kift at hotmail.com
     A  A 6. mailto:[30]detomaso at poca.com
     A  A 7. mailto:[31]gaino at earthlink.net?
     A  A 8.
     [32]https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref
     =ts&fref=ts
     A  A 9. [33]http://www.slickpaint.com/
     A  10. mailto:[34]cengles at cox.net
     A  11. mailto:[35]detomaso at poca.com
     A  12. mailto:[36]DeTomaso at poca.com
     A  13. [37]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
     A  14. mailto:[38]DeTomaso at poca.com
     A  15. [39]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
     _______________________________________________
     Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
     Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
     DeTomaso mailing list
     [40]DeTomaso at poca.com
     [41]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
     To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
     etc.) use the links above.

References

   1. mailto:cengles at cox.net
   2. mailto:jderyke at aol.com
   3. mailto:jderyke at aol.com
   4. mailto:cengles at cox.net
   5. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
   6. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
   7. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
   8. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
   9. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  10. mailto:cengles at cox.net
  11. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
  12. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
  13. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
  14. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
  15. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  16. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
  17. https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref=ts&fref=ts
  18. http://www.slickpaint.com/
  19. mailto:cengles at cox.net
  20. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  21. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  22. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  23. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  24. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  25. mailto:cengles at cox.net
  26. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
  27. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
  28. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
  29. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
  30. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  31. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
  32. https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref=ts&fref=ts
  33. http://www.slickpaint.com/
  34. mailto:cengles at cox.net
  35. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  36. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  37. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  38. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  39. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  40. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  41. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com


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