[DeTomaso] Techno question: a fine mess--update II

Charles Engles cengles at cox.net
Sun Oct 11 18:17:28 EDT 2015


Dear Jack,

 

                 Hmm.  This noise is there at idle and quickly disappears with slight throttle.   Last year I went through most of the engine and the timing set checked out good just about two thousand miles ago.  IIRC, it is a good quality RollMaster set.   I have listened to the front timing cover multiple times, but I don’t hear anything suspicious.

 

 

                  I hate mysteries, but I think that I will button it up and take it on the scheduled road trip next weekend.   I am confident that it is not something bad.

 

 

                                     Warmest regards,  Chuck Engles

 

From: jderyke at aol.com [mailto:jderyke at aol.com] 
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2015 4:42 PM
To: cengles at cox.net; gaino at earthlink.net; asajay at asajay.com; MikeLDrew at aol.com; julian_kift at hotmail.com
Cc: detomaso at poca.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno question: a fine mess--update II

 

Chuck, at a tech session years ago, an engine was making an odd sort of noise much like you describe. It turned out to be a horribly stretched timing chain- the chain was stroking the inside of the block extension under even slight acceleration! The chain supposedly had 20,000 miles on it. How long ago was it you built up that motor? Try your stethoscope on the timing chain cover plate, low on the passenger side. Cheers- J DeRyke 

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net>
To: 'bill gaino' <gaino at earthlink.net>; 'Asa Jay Laughton' <asajay at asajay.com>; MikeLDrew <MikeLDrew at aol.com>; 'Julian Kift' <julian_kift at hotmail.com>
Cc: 'De Tomaso List' <detomaso at poca.com>
Sent: Sun, Oct 11, 2015 8:45 am
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno question: a fine mess--update II

Dear Bill and Asa, et al,
 
 
           Test drive without the AC belt still
showed noise.   While the engine was still warm, I removed the alternator belt. 
To my surprise, the chirpy noise is still there.  The garden hose stethoscope
seemed to show that it was maximal within the bowl of the crank pulley.  
Hmmm???  No noise from the oil pan nor water pump (obviously).
 
          
Next, I removed the crank pulley and the noise is still chirping away.   I
checked again that the balancer isn't hitting anything on its backside and a
wire hanger feeler shows nothing between the back of the balancer and the front
cover or oil pan.
 
           Next, I could only imagine that I had somehow
not torque the balancer bolt well and that it was loose.  Sorry, it is tight and
I am sure that it has a dose of anti seize and the correct torque.  
 
        
The balancer is a BHJ and is about nine years old with about 10k miles.  It
looks good.  It was recently out and reinstalled last year before the Houston
Rally.  No noise was noticed until afterwards while driving "normally" in town,
etc.   Sounded like a belt, but it isn't all belt noise.
 
           I suppose
the next step would be to loosen the balancer bolt, again apply a touch of
antiseize if it looks like it needs it and then retorque.
 
 
                 
Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
 
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: bill
gaino [mailto:gaino at earthlink.net <mailto:gaino at earthlink.net?> ] 
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2015 9:09 AM
To:
Charles Engles
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno question: a fine
mess--update
 
Charles, I went thhrough this with a corvette it turned out to
be a loose harmonic balancer bolt. Big one that goes in the end of crank.  Bill
1362
 
 
https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref=ts <https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref=ts&fref=ts> &fref=ts
If
you want it slick.  www.slickpaint.com  like us on facebook
 
 
-----Original
Message-----
>From: Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net>
>Sent: Oct 10, 2015 9:30
PM
>To: detomaso at poca.com
>Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno question: a fine
mess--update
> 
>Dear Forum,
> 
> 
>           It is still a fine mess.  The
gremlins are well entrenched.  
>At this point, I have:
> 
>1) ascertained
that the balancer isn't hitting the block or pan
> 
>2) been unable to localize
precisely the noise source despite the 
>mechanic's stethoscope or the garden
hose stethoscope (it actually 
>works a little better in this instance, but
still not a success).  It 
>is coming from the front of the engine-belt
area.
> 
>3) replaced the alternator: no change and now the ammeter needle
 
>bounces
> 
>4) ascertained that I do have an electronic voltage regulator
from 
>Motorcraft
> 
>5) replaced both belts: no change other than  a slight
decrease in 
>loudness and slightly different quality to the noise
> 
>6)
replaced the idler pulley:  no change. Sigh.   The old pulley does feel
>like
the bearing is starting to go out compared to the smoothness of 
>the
replacement, but still no noise silencing with the change.
> 
> 
>        I am
perturbed.  I have removed the new AC belt and I will test 
>again tomorrow to
see if I have finally localized the noise maker.  I 
>am thinking about trying
some of the belt treatments for squeaking 
>since I have replaced *everything*
at this point.
> 
> 
>        With apologies to Mr. Friedman's famous quote: "
Sadder, older, 
>wiser, I go now, seeking through faith and reason combined 
the answer 
>to this baffling pageant which is the Pantera and the small by
play, 
>which is my amateur wrenching."
> 
> 
>                 
Philosophically yours,  Chuck Engles
> 
> 
> 
> 
 
> 
> 
>_______________________________________________
> 
>Detomaso Forum
Managed by POCA
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list 
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http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 
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subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links
above.
 
 
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-------------- next part --------------
   Dear Jack,


                    Hmm.  This noise is there at idle and quickly
   disappears with slight throttle.   Last year I went through most of the
   engine and the timing set checked out good just about two thousand
   miles ago.  IIRC, it is a good quality RollMaster set.   I have
   listened to the front timing cover multiple times, but I don't hear
   anything suspicious.



                     I hate mysteries, but I think that I will button it
   up and take it on the scheduled road trip next weekend.   I am
   confident that it is not something bad.



                                        Warmest regards,  Chuck Engles


   From: jderyke at aol.com [mailto:jderyke at aol.com]
   Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2015 4:42 PM
   To: cengles at cox.net; gaino at earthlink.net; asajay at asajay.com;
   MikeLDrew at aol.com; julian_kift at hotmail.com
   Cc: detomaso at poca.com
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno question: a fine mess--update II


   Chuck, at a tech session years ago, an engine was making an odd sort of
   noise much like you describe. It turned out to be a horribly stretched
   timing chain- the chain was stroking the inside of the block extension
   under even slight acceleration! The chain supposedly had 20,000 miles
   on it. How long ago was it you built up that motor? Try your
   stethoscope on the timing chain cover plate, low on the passenger side.
   Cheers- J DeRyke




   -----Original Message-----
   From: Charles Engles <[1]cengles at cox.net>
   To: 'bill gaino' <[2]gaino at earthlink.net>; 'Asa Jay Laughton'
   <[3]asajay at asajay.com>; MikeLDrew <[4]MikeLDrew at aol.com>; 'Julian Kift'
   <[5]julian_kift at hotmail.com>
   Cc: 'De Tomaso List' <[6]detomaso at poca.com>
   Sent: Sun, Oct 11, 2015 8:45 am
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno question: a fine mess--update II
Dear Bill and Asa, et al,


           Test drive without the AC belt still
showed noise.   While the engine was still warm, I removed the alternator belt.
To my surprise, the chirpy noise is still there.  The garden hose stethoscope
seemed to show that it was maximal within the bowl of the crank pulley.
Hmmm???  No noise from the oil pan nor water pump (obviously).


Next, I removed the crank pulley and the noise is still chirping away.   I
checked again that the balancer isn't hitting anything on its backside and a
wire hanger feeler shows nothing between the back of the balancer and the front
cover or oil pan.

           Next, I could only imagine that I had somehow
not torque the balancer bolt well and that it was loose.  Sorry, it is tight and
I am sure that it has a dose of anti seize and the correct torque.


The balancer is a BHJ and is about nine years old with about 10k miles.  It
looks good.  It was recently out and reinstalled last year before the Houston
Rally.  No noise was noticed until afterwards while driving "normally" in town,
etc.   Sounded like a belt, but it isn't all belt noise.

           I suppose
the next step would be to loosen the balancer bolt, again apply a touch of
antiseize if it looks like it needs it and then retorque.



Warmest regards, Chuck Engles




-----Original Message-----
From: bill
gaino [[7]mailto:gaino at earthlink.net]
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2015 9:09 AM
To:
Charles Engles
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno question: a fine
mess--update

Charles, I went thhrough this with a corvette it turned out to
be a loose harmonic balancer bolt. Big one that goes in the end of crank.  Bill
1362


[8]https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref=ts&fref=ts
If
you want it slick.  [9]www.slickpaint.com  like us on facebook


-----Original
Message-----
>From: Charles Engles <[10]cengles at cox.net>
>Sent: Oct 10, 2015 9:30
PM
>To: [11]detomaso at poca.com
>Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno question: a fine
mess--update
>
>Dear Forum,
>
>
>           It is still a fine mess.  The
gremlins are well entrenched.
>At this point, I have:
>
>1) ascertained
that the balancer isn't hitting the block or pan
>
>2) been unable to localize
precisely the noise source despite the
>mechanic's stethoscope or the garden
hose stethoscope (it actually
>works a little better in this instance, but
still not a success).  It
>is coming from the front of the engine-belt
area.
>
>3) replaced the alternator: no change and now the ammeter needle

>bounces
>
>4) ascertained that I do have an electronic voltage regulator
from
>Motorcraft
>
>5) replaced both belts: no change other than  a slight
decrease in
>loudness and slightly different quality to the noise
>
>6)
replaced the idler pulley:  no change. Sigh.   The old pulley does feel
>like
the bearing is starting to go out compared to the smoothness of
>the
replacement, but still no noise silencing with the change.
>
>
>        I am
perturbed.  I have removed the new AC belt and I will test
>again tomorrow to
see if I have finally localized the noise maker.  I
>am thinking about trying
some of the belt treatments for squeaking
>since I have replaced *everything*
at this point.
>
>
>        With apologies to Mr. Friedman's famous quote: "
Sadder, older,
>wiser, I go now, seeking through faith and reason combined
the answer
>to this baffling pageant which is the Pantera and the small by
play,
>which is my amateur wrenching."
>
>
>
Philosophically yours,  Chuck Engles
>
>
>
>

>
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>Detomaso Forum
Managed by POCA
>Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing
list
>[12]DeTomaso at poca.com
[13]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>To manage your
subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links
above.


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References

   1. mailto:cengles at cox.net
   2. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
   3. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
   4. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
   5. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
   6. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
   7. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net?
   8. https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref=ts&fref=ts
   9. http://www.slickpaint.com/
  10. mailto:cengles at cox.net
  11. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  12. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  13. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  14. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  15. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com


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