[DeTomaso] Magnaflow Exhaust for Pantera

[MikeLDrew at aol.com]

In a message dated 11/26/15 9:47:52 AM, dnunn at telus.net writes:


> Some long-time Pantera owners may recall Borla built a Pantera system
> (headers and mufflers) about 20 years ago. The Pantera they brought in to
> build the prototype system on, had a Hall Big Bore system on it. Borla 
> said
> it was the worst "production" exhaust system they had ever seen on any car
> of any type!
> 
>>>Yes, that's pretty crude.   The headers are actually very effective, 
surprisingly so considering their small collector (as verified by Dan Jones 
dyno testing).   The Hall mufflers, I'm not a fan of at all though.   They are 
completely lacking in style or character.


> > They insisted on basing their system on one of their
> off-the-shelf muffler cans. They felt making custom cans would push the
> price too high. If I recall, the system retailed for around $1,500. The
> system looked OK, even though the muffler can was too long, and sounded
> great but Borla discontinued it after one production run. 
> 
>>>I was excited when I learned Borla was going to make a system, and was 
VERY disappointed when I first saw it.   I was at Palm Springs for the 
vintage races there, hosted by San Diego Panteras (many many moons ago) and saw 
the first car so-equipped.   I seem to remember it was a silver car.   Not 
only were the mufflers too long (a sin that is partially concealed with an 
L-model bumper but unforgiveable on a Pre-L), they were LOUD!   And I mean, it 
sounded louder than some Panteras I've heard with straight pipes/no mufflers 
at all.   I don't know how Borla managed that trick.

I also thought that the tone was harsh and tinny, something often found 
with stainless steel mufflers (the mufflers that PI sells are even worse in 
this regard, and as they are (apparently) cheap Chinese-made things, they blow 
out and become ineffective in short order).


> >Since it was made
> from stainless steel, the price was still too high for most Pantera owners
> and just about every one they sold had fitment issues. It seems Borla 
> didn't
> anticipate the variations from car to car. They naively thought if it fit
> one Pantera, it would fit all Panteras. 
> 
>>>The only 'variation' one would likely encounter would be the 
bumper--either it has an L-model bumper, or it doesn't.   But dimensionally, they are 
otherwise all the same.   If they experienced fitment issues, then the 
problem was that the system they made didn't fit *any* Pantera very well.


> >They also didn't anticipate all the
> "whining" about the price, so they scrapped the whole project after about
> six months. 
> 
>>>Which, under the circumstances, is just as well.   

At about the same time, Pantera East was producing a really excellent 
stainless steel copy of the factory GTS system, for about the same price.   It 
was leagues apart from the Borla offering, in terms of quality, authenticity, 
fit and fitment etc.   It was also about the same volume as the original 
ANSA GTS system, perhaps even a bit quieter.   Rick Moseley and I were the 
beta-testers for the prototype version, which we installed on Rick's car.   
Unfortunately, it proved impossible to build it at a reasonable price, as they 
were being hand-made in a guy's backyard in southern California by an 
old-school craftsman, one at a time.   I think only 3-4 sets were made before the 
whole project fell apart, as the cost rocketed well north of $2000 once he 
figured out exactly how long it took to create each one.

Kudos to Wilkinson for finally tooling up to mass-produce a relatively 
affordable, very effective, good-looking and good-sounding system a couple of 
years ago.   Yes, some corners were cut on the mild steel versions (the 
headers look beautiful but the paint burns off and they look like crap after only 
30 minutes, and they need to be given an aftermarket ceramic coating), but 
the fit and fitment is excellent, and the sound is just terrific.   Because 
they are mass-produced (I suspect, but don't know, that they are a Far East 
product as well), the price is much, much less than a new ANSA GTS system, 
and performance is leagues better as well.

I have only heard the mild steel version and am naturally skeptical of the 
stainless version, but Steve assured me that it uses a different variety of 
stainless steel, much thicker than the cheap tinny stuff that's routinely 
found in exhaust systems, and thus doesn't have the undesirable tonal 
qualities one normally associates with stainless.   I'll leave it for others to 
judge that until I hear it for myself....

Which brings us back to this Magnaflow system.   Has anybody ever seen 
Foose's car in person and heard it run?

Mike
-------------- next part --------------
   In a message dated 11/26/15 9:47:52 AM, dnunn at telus.net writes:

     Some long-time Pantera owners may recall Borla built a Pantera
     system
     (headers and mufflers) about 20 years ago. The Pantera they brought
     in to
     build the prototype system on, had a Hall Big Bore system on it.
     Borla said
     it was the worst "production" exhaust system they had ever seen on
     any car
     of any type!

   >>>Yes, that's pretty crude.  The headers are actually very effective,
   surprisingly so considering their small collector (as verified by Dan
   Jones dyno testing).  The Hall mufflers, I'm not a fan of at all
   though.  They are completely lacking in style or character.

     > They insisted on basing their system on one of their
     off-the-shelf muffler cans. They felt making custom cans would push
     the
     price too high. If I recall, the system retailed for around $1,500.
     The
     system looked OK, even though the muffler can was too long, and
     sounded
     great but Borla discontinued it after one production run.

   >>>I was excited when I learned Borla was going to make a system, and
   was VERY disappointed when I first saw it.  I was at Palm Springs for
   the vintage races there, hosted by San Diego Panteras (many many moons
   ago) and saw the first car so-equipped.  I seem to remember it was a
   silver car.  Not only were the mufflers too long (a sin that is
   partially concealed with an L-model bumper but unforgiveable on a
   Pre-L), they were LOUD!  And I mean, it sounded louder than some
   Panteras I've heard with straight pipes/no mufflers at all.  I don't
   know how Borla managed that trick.
   I also thought that the tone was harsh and tinny, something often found
   with stainless steel mufflers (the mufflers that PI sells are even
   worse in this regard, and as they are (apparently) cheap Chinese-made
   things, they blow out and become ineffective in short order).

     >Since it was made
     from stainless steel, the price was still too high for most Pantera
     owners
     and just about every one they sold had fitment issues. It seems
     Borla didn't
     anticipate the variations from car to car. They naively thought if
     it fit
     one Pantera, it would fit all Panteras.

   >>>The only 'variation' one would likely encounter would be the
   bumper--either it has an L-model bumper, or it doesn't.  But
   dimensionally, they are otherwise all the same.  If they experienced
   fitment issues, then the problem was that the system they made didn't
   fit *any* Pantera very well.

     >They also didn't anticipate all the
     "whining" about the price, so they scrapped the whole project after
     about
     six months.

   >>>Which, under the circumstances, is just as well.
   At about the same time, Pantera East was producing a really excellent
   stainless steel copy of the factory GTS system, for about the same
   price.  It was leagues apart from the Borla offering, in terms of
   quality, authenticity, fit and fitment etc.  It was also about the same
   volume as the original ANSA GTS system, perhaps even a bit quieter.
   Rick Moseley and I were the beta-testers for the prototype version,
   which we installed on Rick's car.  Unfortunately, it proved impossible
   to build it at a reasonable price, as they were being hand-made in a
   guy's backyard in southern California by an old-school craftsman, one
   at a time.  I think only 3-4 sets were made before the whole project
   fell apart, as the cost rocketed well north of $2000 once he figured
   out exactly how long it took to create each one.
   Kudos to Wilkinson for finally tooling up to mass-produce a relatively
   affordable, very effective, good-looking and good-sounding system a
   couple of years ago.  Yes, some corners were cut on the mild steel
   versions (the headers look beautiful but the paint burns off and they
   look like crap after only 30 minutes, and they need to be given an
   aftermarket ceramic coating), but the fit and fitment is excellent, and
   the sound is just terrific.  Because they are mass-produced (I suspect,
   but don't know, that they are a Far East product as well), the price is
   much, much less than a new ANSA GTS system, and performance is leagues
   better as well.
   I have only heard the mild steel version and am naturally skeptical of
   the stainless version, but Steve assured me that it uses a different
   variety of stainless steel, much thicker than the cheap tinny stuff
   that's routinely found in exhaust systems, and thus doesn't have the
   undesirable tonal qualities one normally associates with stainless.
   I'll leave it for others to judge that until I hear it for myself....
   Which brings us back to this Magnaflow system.  Has anybody ever seen
   Foose's car in person and heard it run?
   Mike