[DeTomaso] Cylinder Heads leaking
sean mundy
seanmundy at hotmail.com
Mon Nov 23 01:01:38 EST 2015
I was thinking the piston needs to suck in some air frome the intake valve to be able to compress it so I thought I needed the rockers installed. I was only getting 30 to 40 psi on 5,6,7 cyl and on 8 I saw 200psi. Those numbers dont make sense as the motor was running pretty good power just burning oil
-------- Original message --------
From: Mike Drew <MikeLDrew at aol.com>
Date: 22/11/2015 9:49 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: sean mundy <seanmundy at hotmail.com>
Cc: Asa Jay Laughton <asajay at asajay.com>, mark skwarek Skwarek <ehpantera at yahoo.com>, detomaso at poca.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cylinder Heads leaking
Sean,
With the rocker arms removed the valves are both closed = optimal situation to get good readings.
The fact that you were getting crap numbers on that side suggests that things are AFU over there.
Mike
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 22, 2015, at 16:42, sean mundy <seanmundy at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Compression test shows
> 1= 160
> 2= 120
> 3= 200
> 4= couldnt get the comp tester in the spark plug hole. Too tight with the coolant tank in the way.
> On 5-8 I was hooking up the comp tester and getting really bad readings but I didn't have the rockers arms installed
> and I think that is necessary. Not sure if the readings I did get show a piston ring problem or a valve leak.
> I will do a leak down test next when I pick up a tester.
>
> Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2015 07:00:21 -0800
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cylinder Heads leaking
> From: asajay at asajay.com
> To: seanmundy at hotmail.com
> CC: ehpantera at yahoo.com; mikeldrew at aol.com; detomaso at poca.com
>
> The air is probably leaking past the rings, which have a designed in gap. With the valves closed, the cylinder is NOT a hermetically sealed container.
>
> Asa Jay
>
> Sent using Jedi Mind Tricks
>
>
> sean mundy <seanmundy at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> I tried pumping air into 7 and 8 spark plug holes and both I can hear air leaking. I have all my rockers removed on that side so all the valves should be closed. I've tried a few different types of gaskets but buying the CHI specific ones seemed to be the best approach. They fit perfect so I hoped my valve seals were the problem especially since there is a lot of blue smoke on startup after the car has been sitting awhile. I re torqued the heads thinking the air leak could only be either the valves or a leaking head gasket. I have no signs of coolant in my oil. Maybe I have multiple problems ?
>
> Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2015 00:52:12 +0000
> From: ehpantera at yahoo.com
> To: seanmundy at hotmail.com; mikeldrew at aol.com
> CC: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cylinder Heads leaking
>
> I just buy a roll of gasket material and cut my own. Never any leaks and easy to do.Mark
>
>
> On Friday, November 20, 2015 7:30 PM, sean mundy <seanmundy at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Thank you Mike. That explains a possible oil leak being sucked in via a leak but that wouldn't account for me hearing air leaking when pumping air into the cylinder with both valves closed? I have CHI heads and CHI intake and I'm using their specific intake gasket set. I don't think the stock gasket is going to match up all that well. > CC: detomaso at poca.com > From: MikeLDrew at aol.com > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cylinder Heads leaking > Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2015 16:12:19 -0800 > To: seanmundy at hotmail.com > > Sean, > > This is a VERY common problem. Your intake manifold gasket has failed and is leaking on the bottom edge, allowing oil to be sucked from the valley under the intake into one or more cylinders. > > Many people have made the mistake of using Fel-Pro 'Print-o-seal' intake gaskets. These things are notorious for failing; so much so that you can find numerous references to them on Internet forums for all sorts of cars, where they are commonly called 'Print-o-leak' gaskets! > > I happen to favor the stock-style valley pan gasket, Fel pro MS96012. If you follow the installation instructions to the letter, these seal fine with the added advantage of cooling the underside of the intake by shielding it from oil splash. > > There is a story with photos about this chronic problem in a recent PCNC newsletter; you can read it by accessing the website at www.panteraclubnorcal.com > > I've helped repair two local cars with this problem in the past few months and know of a third that is awaiting repair.... > > Mike > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Nov 20, 2015, at 15:42, sean mundy <seanmundy at hotmail.com> wrote: > > > After a long hiatus, I am back working on my Pantera. Latest issue is > > the engine is burning oil at about a quart every 300 miles. > > My spark plugs don't look horrible but something is going on. I re > > torqued the cylinder heads and intake manifold and made sure my pc > > valve was working. I looked at my intake valves with an > > inspection camera and there is a lot of carbon buildup but I only have > > about 2k miles on the new aluminum heads. I thought my valve seals may > > be leaking so I started removing the rockers on one side and tried to > > replace the Teflon valve seals on #8cyl with new Comp Cam Viton seals. > > I connected compressed air to the #8 spark plug hole to hold the valve > > up so I could remove the spring. I don't think you are supposed to > > but I can hear air leaking from somewhere inside the engine. It seems > > like I can feel a little air coming out of the top of the intake > > manifold with my carb removed. I can't trace the air leak. > > Need some tips on what steps I should take at this point. Thanks, Sean > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA > > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > > DeTomaso mailing list > > DeTomaso at poca.com > > http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com > > > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
> _______________________________________________Detomaso Forum Managed by POCAPosted emails must not exceed 1.5 MegabytesDeTomaso mailing listDeTomaso at poca.comhttp://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.comTo manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>
>
> I tried pumping air into 7 and 8 spark plug holes and both I can hear
> air leaking. I have all my rockers removed on that side so all the
> valves should be closed. I've tried a few different types of gaskets
> but buying the CHI specific ones seemed to be the best approach. They
> fit perfect so I hoped my valve seals were the problem especially since
> there is a lot of blue smoke on startup after the car has been
> sitting awhile. I re torqued the heads thinking the air leak could
> only be either the valves or a leaking head gasket. I have no signs
> of coolant in my oil. Maybe I have multiple problems ?
> __________________________________________________________________
>
> Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2015 00:52:12 +0000
> From: ehpantera at yahoo.com
> To: seanmundy at hotmail.com; mikeldrew at aol.com
> CC: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cylinder Heads leaking
> I just buy a roll of gasket material and cut my own. Never any leaks
> and easy to do.
> Mark
> On Friday, November 20, 2015 7:30 PM, sean mundy
> <seanmundy at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Thank you Mike. That explains a possible oil leak being sucked in
> via
> a leak but that wouldn't account for me hearing air leaking when
> pumping air into the cylinder with both valves closed? I have CHI
> heads and CHI intake and I'm using their specific intake gasket set.
> I
> don't think the stock gasket is going to match up all that well.
> > CC: [1]detomaso at poca.com
> > From: [2]MikeLDrew at aol.com
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cylinder Heads leaking
> > Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2015 16:12:19 -0800
> > To: [3]seanmundy at hotmail.com
> >
> > Sean,
> >
> > This is a VERY common problem. Your intake manifold gasket has
> failed
> and is leaking on the bottom edge, allowing oil to be sucked from the
> valley under the intake into one or more cylinders.
> >
> > Many people have made the mistake of using Fel-Pro 'Print-o-seal'
> intake gaskets. These things are notorious for failing; so much so
> that
> you can find numerous references to them on Internet forums for all
> sorts of cars, where they are commonly called 'Print-o-leak' gaskets!
> >
> > I happen to favor the stock-style valley pan gasket, Fel pro
> MS96012.
> If you follow the installation instructions to the letter, these seal
> fine with the added advantage of cooling the underside of the intake
> by
> shielding it from oil splash.
> >
> > There is a story with photos about this chronic problem in a recent
> PCNC newsletter; you can read it by accessing the website at
> www.panteraclubnorcal.com
> >
> > I've helped repair two local cars with this problem in the past few
> months and know of a third that is awaiting repair....
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > On Nov 20, 2015, at 15:42, sean mundy <[4]seanmundy at hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > After a long hiatus, I am back working on my Pantera. Latest
> issue
> is
> > > the engine is burning oil at about a quart every 300 miles.
> > > My spark plugs don't look horrible but something is going on. I
> re
> > > torqued the cylinder heads and intake manifold and made sure my
> pc
> > > valve was working. I looked at my intake valves with an
> > > inspection camera and there is a lot of carbon buildup but I only
> have
> > > about 2k miles on the new aluminum heads. I thought my valve
> seals
> may
> > > be leaking so I started removing the rockers on one side and
> tried
> to
> > > replace the Teflon valve seals on #8cyl with new Comp Cam Viton
> seals.
> > > I connected compressed air to the #8 spark plug hole to hold the
> valve
> > > up so I could remove the spring. I don't think you are supposed
> to
> > > but I can hear air leaking from somewhere inside the engine. It
> seems
> > > like I can feel a little air coming out of the top of the intake
> > > manifold with my carb removed. I can't trace the air leak.
> > > Need some tips on what steps I should take at this point. Thanks,
> Sean
> > > _______________________________________________
> > >
> > > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> > > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> > > DeTomaso mailing list
> > > [5]DeTomaso at poca.com
> > > [6]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> > >
> > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
> etc.) use the links above.
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
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> [8]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> use the links above.
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 2. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
> 3. mailto:seanmundy at hotmail.com
> 4. mailto:seanmundy at hotmail.com
> 5. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
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>
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>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
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>
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-------------- next part --------------
I was thinking the piston needs to suck in some air frome the intake
valve to be able to compress it so I thought I needed the rockers
installed. I was only getting 30 to 40 psi on 5,6,7 cyl and on 8 I
saw 200psi. Those numbers dont make sense as the motor was running
pretty good power just burning oil
-------- Original message --------
From: Mike Drew <MikeLDrew at aol.com>
Date: 22/11/2015 9:49 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: sean mundy <seanmundy at hotmail.com>
Cc: Asa Jay Laughton <asajay at asajay.com>, mark skwarek Skwarek
<ehpantera at yahoo.com>, detomaso at poca.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cylinder Heads leaking
Sean,
With the rocker arms removed the valves are both closed = optimal
situation to get good readings.
The fact that you were getting crap numbers on that side suggests that
things are AFU over there.
Mike
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 22, 2015, at 16:42, sean mundy <[1]seanmundy at hotmail.com> wrote:
Compression test shows
1= 160
2= 120
3= 200
4= couldnt get the comp tester in the spark plug hole. Too tight with
the coolant tank in the way.
On 5-8 I was hooking up the comp tester and getting really bad
readings but I didn't have the rockers arms installed
and I think that is necessary. Not sure if the readings I did get show
a piston ring problem or a valve leak.
I will do a leak down test next when I pick up a tester.
__________________________________________________________________
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2015 07:00:21 -0800
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cylinder Heads leaking
From: [2]asajay at asajay.com
To: [3]seanmundy at hotmail.com
CC: [4]ehpantera at yahoo.com; [5]mikeldrew at aol.com; [6]detomaso at poca.com
The air is probably leaking past the rings, which have a designed in
gap. With the valves closed, the cylinder is NOT a hermetically sealed
container.
Asa Jay
Sent using Jedi Mind Tricks
sean mundy <[7]seanmundy at hotmail.com> wrote:
I tried pumping air into 7 and 8 spark plug holes and both I can hear
air leaking. I have all my rockers removed on that side so all the
valves should be closed. I've tried a few different types of gaskets
but buying the CHI specific ones seemed to be the best approach. They
fit perfect so I hoped my valve seals were the problem especially since
there is a lot of blue smoke on startup after the car has been sitting
awhile. I re torqued the heads thinking the air leak could only be
either the valves or a leaking head gasket. I have no signs of coolant
in my oil. Maybe I have multiple problems ?
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2015 00:52:12 +0000
From: [8]ehpantera at yahoo.com
To: [9]seanmundy at hotmail.com; [10]mikeldrew at aol.com
CC: [11]detomaso at poca.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cylinder Heads leaking
I just buy a roll of gasket material and cut my own. Never any leaks
and easy to do.Mark
On Friday, November 20, 2015 7:30 PM, sean mundy
<[12]seanmundy at hotmail.com> wrote:
Thank you Mike. That explains a possible oil leak being sucked in
via a leak but that wouldn't account for me hearing air leaking
when pumping air into the cylinder with both valves closed? I have
CHI heads and CHI intake and I'm using their specific intake gasket
set. I don't think the stock gasket is going to match up all that
well. > CC: [13]detomaso at poca.com > From: [14]MikeLDrew at aol.com >
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cylinder Heads leaking > Date: Fri, 20 Nov
2015 16:12:19 -0800 > To: [15]seanmundy at hotmail.com > > Sean,
> > This is a VERY common problem. Your intake manifold gasket has
failed and is leaking on the bottom edge, allowing oil to be sucked
from the valley under the intake into one or more cylinders. > >
Many people have made the mistake of using Fel-Pro 'Print-o-seal'
intake gaskets. These things are notorious for failing; so much so
that you can find numerous references to them on Internet forums for
all sorts of cars, where they are commonly called 'Print-o-leak'
gaskets! > > I happen to favor the stock-style valley pan gasket,
Fel pro MS96012. If you follow the installation instructions to the
letter, these seal fine with the added advantage of cooling the
underside of the intake by shielding it from oil splash. > >
There is a story with photos about this chronic problem in a recent
PCNC newsletter; you can read it by accessing the website at
[16]www.panteraclubnorcal.com > > I've helped repair two local cars
with this problem in the past few months and know of a third that is
awaiting repair.... > > Mike > > > > Sent from my iPhone
> > On Nov 20, 2015, at 15:42, sean mundy <[17]seanmundy at hotmail.com>
wrote: > > > After a long hiatus, I am back working on my Pantera.
Latest issue is > > the engine is burning oil at about a quart
every 300 miles. > > My spark plugs don't look horrible but something
is going on. I re > > torqued the cylinder heads and intake manifold
and made sure my pc > > valve was working. I looked at my intake
valves with an > > inspection camera and there is a lot of carbon
buildup but I only have > > about 2k miles on the new aluminum
heads. I thought my valve seals may > > be leaking so I started
removing the rockers on one side and tried to > > replace the
Teflon valve seals on #8cyl with new Comp Cam Viton seals. > > I
connected compressed air to the #8 spark plug hole to hold the
valve > > up so I could remove the spring. I don't think you are
supposed to > > but I can hear air leaking from somewhere inside the
engine. It seems > > like I can feel a little air coming out of the
top of the intake > > manifold with my carb removed. I can't trace
the air leak. > > Need some tips on what steps I should take at this
point. Thanks, Sean > >
_______________________________________________ > > > > Detomaso
Forum Managed by POCA > > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
Megabytes > > DeTomaso mailing list > > [18]DeTomaso at poca.com > >
[19]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com > > > > To
manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
use the links above.
_______________________________________________Detomaso Forum Managed
by POCAPosted emails must not exceed 1.5 MegabytesDeTomaso mailing
[20]listDeTomaso at poca.comhttp://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca
.comTo manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
etc.) use the links above.
I tried pumping air into 7 and 8 spark plug holes and both I can
hear
air leaking. I have all my rockers removed on that side so all the
valves should be closed. I've tried a few different types of
gaskets
but buying the CHI specific ones seemed to be the best approach.
They
fit perfect so I hoped my valve seals were the problem especially
since
there is a lot of blue smoke on startup after the car has been
sitting awhile. I re torqued the heads thinking the air leak could
only be either the valves or a leaking head gasket. I have no signs
of coolant in my oil. Maybe I have multiple problems ?
__________________________________________________________________
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2015 00:52:12 +0000
From: [21]ehpantera at yahoo.com
To: [22]seanmundy at hotmail.com; [23]mikeldrew at aol.com
CC: [24]detomaso at poca.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cylinder Heads leaking
I just buy a roll of gasket material and cut my own. Never any leaks
and easy to do.
Mark
On Friday, November 20, 2015 7:30 PM, sean mundy
<[25]seanmundy at hotmail.com> wrote:
Thank you Mike. That explains a possible oil leak being sucked in
via
a leak but that wouldn't account for me hearing air leaking when
pumping air into the cylinder with both valves closed? I have CHI
heads and CHI intake and I'm using their specific intake gasket
set.
I
don't think the stock gasket is going to match up all that well.
> CC: [1][26]detomaso at poca.com
> From: [2][27]MikeLDrew at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cylinder Heads leaking
> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2015 16:12:19 -0800
> To: [3][28]seanmundy at hotmail.com
>
> Sean,
>
> This is a VERY common problem. Your intake manifold gasket has
failed
and is leaking on the bottom edge, allowing oil to be sucked from
the
valley under the intake into one or more cylinders.
>
> Many people have made the mistake of using Fel-Pro
'Print-o-seal'
intake gaskets. These things are notorious for failing; so much so
that
you can find numerous references to them on Internet forums for
all
sorts of cars, where they are commonly called 'Print-o-leak'
gaskets!
>
> I happen to favor the stock-style valley pan gasket, Fel pro
MS96012.
If you follow the installation instructions to the letter, these
seal
fine with the added advantage of cooling the underside of the
intake
by
shielding it from oil splash.
>
> There is a story with photos about this chronic problem in a
recent
PCNC newsletter; you can read it by accessing the website at
[29]www.panteraclubnorcal.com
>
> I've helped repair two local cars with this problem in the past
few
months and know of a third that is awaiting repair....
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 20, 2015, at 15:42, sean mundy
<[4][30]seanmundy at hotmail.com>
wrote:
>
> > After a long hiatus, I am back working on my Pantera. Latest
issue
is
> > the engine is burning oil at about a quart every 300 miles.
> > My spark plugs don't look horrible but something is going on.
I
re
> > torqued the cylinder heads and intake manifold and made sure
my
pc
> > valve was working. I looked at my intake valves with an
> > inspection camera and there is a lot of carbon buildup but I
only
have
> > about 2k miles on the new aluminum heads. I thought my valve
seals
may
> > be leaking so I started removing the rockers on one side and
tried
to
> > replace the Teflon valve seals on #8cyl with new Comp Cam
Viton
seals.
> > I connected compressed air to the #8 spark plug hole to hold
the
valve
> > up so I could remove the spring. I don't think you are
supposed
to
> > but I can hear air leaking from somewhere inside the engine.
It
seems
> > like I can feel a little air coming out of the top of the
intake
> > manifold with my carb removed. I can't trace the air leak.
> > Need some tips on what steps I should take at this point.
Thanks,
Sean
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > [5][31]DeTomaso at poca.com
> > [6][32]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> >
> > To manage your subscription (change email address,
unsubscribe,
etc.) use the links above.
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
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References
1. [35]mailto:detomaso at poca.com
2. [36]mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
3. [37]mailto:seanmundy at hotmail.com
4. [38]mailto:seanmundy at hotmail.com
5. [39]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
6. [40]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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8. [42]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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References
1. mailto:seanmundy at hotmail.com
2. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
3. mailto:seanmundy at hotmail.com
4. mailto:ehpantera at yahoo.com
5. mailto:mikeldrew at aol.com
6. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
7. mailto:seanmundy at hotmail.com
8. mailto:ehpantera at yahoo.com
9. mailto:seanmundy at hotmail.com
10. mailto:mikeldrew at aol.com
11. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
12. mailto:seanmundy at hotmail.com
13. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
14. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
15. mailto:seanmundy at hotmail.com
16. http://www.panteraclubnorcal.com/
17. mailto:seanmundy at hotmail.com
18. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
19. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
20. mailto:listDeTomaso at poca.comhttp
21. mailto:ehpantera at yahoo.com
22. mailto:seanmundy at hotmail.com
23. mailto:mikeldrew at aol.com
24. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
25. mailto:seanmundy at hotmail.com
26. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
27. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
28. mailto:seanmundy at hotmail.com
29. http://www.panteraclubnorcal.com/
30. mailto:seanmundy at hotmail.com
31. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
32. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
33. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
34. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
35. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
36. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
37. mailto:seanmundy at hotmail.com
38. mailto:seanmundy at hotmail.com
39. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
40. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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