[DeTomaso] Cylinder Heads leaking

sean mundy seanmundy at hotmail.com
Mon Nov 23 01:01:38 EST 2015


I was thinking the piston needs to suck in some air frome the intake valve to be able to compress it so I thought I needed the rockers installed.  I was only getting 30 to 40 psi on 5,6,7 cyl and on  8 I saw 200psi.  Those numbers dont make sense as the motor was running pretty good power just burning oil

-------- Original message --------
From: Mike Drew <MikeLDrew at aol.com>
Date: 22/11/2015  9:49 PM  (GMT-08:00)
To: sean mundy <seanmundy at hotmail.com>
Cc: Asa Jay Laughton <asajay at asajay.com>, mark skwarek Skwarek <ehpantera at yahoo.com>, detomaso at poca.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cylinder Heads leaking

Sean,

With the rocker arms removed the valves are both closed = optimal situation to get good readings.

The fact that you were getting crap numbers on that side suggests that things are AFU over there.

Mike

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 22, 2015, at 16:42, sean mundy <seanmundy at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Compression test shows
> 1= 160
> 2= 120
> 3= 200
> 4= couldnt get the comp tester in the spark plug hole.  Too tight with the coolant tank in the way.
> On 5-8  I was hooking up the comp tester and getting really bad readings but I didn't have the rockers arms installed
> and I think that is necessary.  Not sure if the readings I did get show a piston ring problem or a valve leak.
> I will do a leak down test next when I pick up a tester.
>
> Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2015 07:00:21 -0800
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cylinder Heads leaking
> From: asajay at asajay.com
> To: seanmundy at hotmail.com
> CC: ehpantera at yahoo.com; mikeldrew at aol.com; detomaso at poca.com
>
> The air is probably leaking past the rings, which have a designed in gap.  With the valves closed, the cylinder is NOT a hermetically sealed container.
>
> Asa  Jay
>
> Sent using Jedi Mind Tricks
>
>
> sean mundy <seanmundy at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> I tried pumping air into 7 and 8 spark plug holes and both I can hear air leaking.  I have all my rockers removed on that side so all the valves should be closed.  I've tried a few different types of gaskets but buying the CHI specific ones seemed to be the best approach.  They fit perfect so I hoped my valve seals were the problem especially since there is a lot of blue smoke on startup after the car has been sitting awhile.  I re torqued the heads thinking the air leak could only be either the valves or a leaking head gasket.  I have no signs of coolant in my oil.  Maybe I have multiple problems ?
>
> Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2015 00:52:12 +0000
> From: ehpantera at yahoo.com
> To: seanmundy at hotmail.com; mikeldrew at aol.com
> CC: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cylinder Heads leaking
>
> I just buy a roll of gasket material and cut my own. Never any leaks and easy to do.Mark
>
>
>     On Friday, November 20, 2015 7:30 PM, sean mundy <seanmundy at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>     Thank you Mike.  That explains a possible oil leak being sucked in via   a leak but that wouldn't account for me hearing air leaking when   pumping air into the cylinder with both valves closed?   I have CHI   heads and CHI intake and I'm using their specific intake gasket set. I   don't think the stock gasket is going to match up all that well.   > CC: detomaso at poca.com   > From: MikeLDrew at aol.com   > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cylinder Heads leaking   > Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2015 16:12:19 -0800   > To: seanmundy at hotmail.com   >   > Sean,   >   > This is a VERY common problem. Your intake manifold gasket has failed   and is leaking on the bottom edge, allowing oil to be sucked from the   valley under the intake into one or more cylinders.   >   > Many people have made the mistake of using Fel-Pro 'Print-o-seal'   intake gaskets. These things are notorious for failing; so much so that   you can find numerous references to them on Internet forums for all   sorts of cars, where they are commonly called 'Print-o-leak' gaskets!   >   > I happen to favor the stock-style valley pan gasket, Fel pro MS96012.   If you follow the installation instructions to the letter, these seal   fine with the added advantage of cooling the underside of the intake by   shielding it from oil splash.   >   > There is a story with photos about this chronic problem in a recent   PCNC newsletter; you can read it by accessing the website at   www.panteraclubnorcal.com   >   > I've helped repair two local cars with this problem in the past few   months and know of a third that is awaiting repair....   >   > Mike   >   >   >   > Sent from my iPhone   >   > On Nov 20, 2015, at 15:42, sean mundy <seanmundy at hotmail.com> wrote:   >   > > After a long hiatus, I am back working on my Pantera. Latest issue   is   > > the engine is burning oil at about a quart every 300 miles.   > > My spark plugs don't look horrible but something is going on. I re   > > torqued the cylinder heads and intake manifold and made sure my pc   > > valve was working. I looked at my intake valves with an   > > inspection camera and there is a lot of carbon buildup but I only   have   > > about 2k miles on the new aluminum heads. I thought my valve seals   may   > > be leaking so I started removing the rockers on one side and tried   to   > > replace the Teflon valve seals on #8cyl with new Comp Cam Viton   seals.   > > I connected compressed air to the #8 spark plug hole to hold the   valve   > > up so I could remove the spring. I don't think you are supposed to   > > but I can hear air leaking from somewhere inside the engine. It   seems   > > like I can feel a little air coming out of the top of the intake   > > manifold with my carb removed. I can't trace the air leak.   > > Need some tips on what steps I should take at this point. Thanks,   Sean   > > _______________________________________________   > >   > > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA   > > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes   > > DeTomaso mailing list   > > DeTomaso at poca.com   > > http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com   > >   > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,   etc.) use the links above.
> _______________________________________________Detomaso Forum Managed by POCAPosted emails must not exceed 1.5 MegabytesDeTomaso mailing listDeTomaso at poca.comhttp://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.comTo manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>
>
>    I tried pumping air into 7 and 8 spark plug holes and both I can hear
>    air leaking.  I have all my rockers removed on that side so all the
>    valves should be closed.  I've tried a few different types of gaskets
>    but buying the CHI specific ones seemed to be the best approach.  They
>    fit perfect so I hoped my valve seals were the problem especially since
>    there is a lot of blue smoke on startup after the car has been
>    sitting awhile.  I re torqued the heads thinking the air leak could
>    only be either the valves or a leaking head gasket.  I have no signs
>    of coolant in my oil.  Maybe I have multiple problems ?
>      __________________________________________________________________
>
>    Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2015 00:52:12 +0000
>    From: ehpantera at yahoo.com
>    To: seanmundy at hotmail.com; mikeldrew at aol.com
>    CC: detomaso at poca.com
>    Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cylinder Heads leaking
>    I just buy a roll of gasket material and cut my own. Never any leaks
>    and easy to do.
>    Mark
>    On Friday, November 20, 2015 7:30 PM, sean mundy
>    <seanmundy at hotmail.com> wrote:
>      Thank you Mike.  That explains a possible oil leak being sucked in
>    via
>      a leak but that wouldn't account for me hearing air leaking when
>      pumping air into the cylinder with both valves closed?  I have CHI
>      heads and CHI intake and I'm using their specific intake gasket set.
>    I
>      don't think the stock gasket is going to match up all that well.
>      > CC: [1]detomaso at poca.com
>      > From: [2]MikeLDrew at aol.com
>      > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cylinder Heads leaking
>      > Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2015 16:12:19 -0800
>      > To: [3]seanmundy at hotmail.com
>      >
>      > Sean,
>      >
>      > This is a VERY common problem. Your intake manifold gasket has
>    failed
>      and is leaking on the bottom edge, allowing oil to be sucked from the
>      valley under the intake into one or more cylinders.
>      >
>      > Many people have made the mistake of using Fel-Pro 'Print-o-seal'
>      intake gaskets. These things are notorious for failing; so much so
>    that
>      you can find numerous references to them on Internet forums for all
>      sorts of cars, where they are commonly called 'Print-o-leak' gaskets!
>      >
>      > I happen to favor the stock-style valley pan gasket, Fel pro
>    MS96012.
>      If you follow the installation instructions to the letter, these seal
>      fine with the added advantage of cooling the underside of the intake
>    by
>      shielding it from oil splash.
>      >
>      > There is a story with photos about this chronic problem in a recent
>      PCNC newsletter; you can read it by accessing the website at
>      www.panteraclubnorcal.com
>      >
>      > I've helped repair two local cars with this problem in the past few
>      months and know of a third that is awaiting repair....
>      >
>      > Mike
>      >
>      >
>      >
>      > Sent from my iPhone
>      >
>      > On Nov 20, 2015, at 15:42, sean mundy <[4]seanmundy at hotmail.com>
>    wrote:
>      >
>      > > After a long hiatus, I am back working on my Pantera. Latest
>    issue
>      is
>      > > the engine is burning oil at about a quart every 300 miles.
>      > > My spark plugs don't look horrible but something is going on. I
>    re
>      > > torqued the cylinder heads and intake manifold and made sure my
>    pc
>      > > valve was working. I looked at my intake valves with an
>      > > inspection camera and there is a lot of carbon buildup but I only
>      have
>      > > about 2k miles on the new aluminum heads. I thought my valve
>    seals
>      may
>      > > be leaking so I started removing the rockers on one side and
>    tried
>      to
>      > > replace the Teflon valve seals on #8cyl with new Comp Cam Viton
>      seals.
>      > > I connected compressed air to the #8 spark plug hole to hold the
>      valve
>      > > up so I could remove the spring. I don't think you are supposed
>    to
>      > > but I can hear air leaking from somewhere inside the engine. It
>      seems
>      > > like I can feel a little air coming out of the top of the intake
>      > > manifold with my carb removed. I can't trace the air leak.
>      > > Need some tips on what steps I should take at this point. Thanks,
>      Sean
>      > > _______________________________________________
>      > >
>      > > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>      > > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>      > > DeTomaso mailing list
>      > > [5]DeTomaso at poca.com
>      > > [6]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>      > >
>      > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
>      etc.) use the links above.
>    _______________________________________________
>    Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>    Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>    DeTomaso mailing list
>    [7]DeTomaso at poca.com
>    [8]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>    To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
>    use the links above.
>
> References
>
>    1. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>    2. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
>    3. mailto:seanmundy at hotmail.com
>    4. mailto:seanmundy at hotmail.com
>    5. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>    6. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>    7. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>    8. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
-------------- next part --------------
   I was thinking the piston needs to suck in some air frome the intake
   valve to be able to compress it so I thought I needed the rockers
   installed.  I was only getting 30 to 40 psi on 5,6,7 cyl and on  8 I
   saw 200psi.  Those numbers dont make sense as the motor was running
   pretty good power just burning oil
   -------- Original message --------
   From: Mike Drew <MikeLDrew at aol.com>
   Date: 22/11/2015 9:49 PM (GMT-08:00)
   To: sean mundy <seanmundy at hotmail.com>
   Cc: Asa Jay Laughton <asajay at asajay.com>, mark skwarek Skwarek
   <ehpantera at yahoo.com>, detomaso at poca.com
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cylinder Heads leaking

   Sean,
   With the rocker arms removed the valves are both closed = optimal
   situation to get good readings.
   The fact that you were getting crap numbers on that side suggests that
   things are AFU over there.
   Mike
   Sent from my iPhone
   On Nov 22, 2015, at 16:42, sean mundy <[1]seanmundy at hotmail.com> wrote:

   Compression test shows
   1= 160
   2= 120
   3= 200
   4= couldnt get the comp tester in the spark plug hole.  Too tight with
   the coolant tank in the way.
   On 5-8  I was hooking up the comp tester and getting really bad
   readings but I didn't have the rockers arms installed
   and I think that is necessary.  Not sure if the readings I did get show
   a piston ring problem or a valve leak.
   I will do a leak down test next when I pick up a tester.
     __________________________________________________________________

   Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2015 07:00:21 -0800
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cylinder Heads leaking
   From: [2]asajay at asajay.com
   To: [3]seanmundy at hotmail.com
   CC: [4]ehpantera at yahoo.com; [5]mikeldrew at aol.com; [6]detomaso at poca.com
   The air is probably leaking past the rings, which have a designed in
   gap.  With the valves closed, the cylinder is NOT a hermetically sealed
   container.
   Asa  Jay
   Sent using Jedi Mind Tricks
   sean mundy <[7]seanmundy at hotmail.com> wrote:
   I tried pumping air into 7 and 8 spark plug holes and both I can hear
   air leaking.  I have all my rockers removed on that side so all the
   valves should be closed.  I've tried a few different types of gaskets
   but buying the CHI specific ones seemed to be the best approach.  They
   fit perfect so I hoped my valve seals were the problem especially since
   there is a lot of blue smoke on startup after the car has been sitting
   awhile.  I re torqued the heads thinking the air leak could only be
   either the valves or a leaking head gasket.  I have no signs of coolant
   in my oil.  Maybe I have multiple problems ?
   Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2015 00:52:12 +0000
   From: [8]ehpantera at yahoo.com
   To: [9]seanmundy at hotmail.com; [10]mikeldrew at aol.com
   CC: [11]detomaso at poca.com
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cylinder Heads leaking
   I just buy a roll of gasket material and cut my own. Never any leaks
   and easy to do.Mark
       On Friday, November 20, 2015 7:30 PM, sean mundy
   <[12]seanmundy at hotmail.com> wrote:

       Thank you Mike.  That explains a possible oil leak being sucked in
   via   a leak but that wouldn't account for me hearing air leaking
   when   pumping air into the cylinder with both valves closed?   I have
   CHI   heads and CHI intake and I'm using their specific intake gasket
   set. I   don't think the stock gasket is going to match up all that
   well.   > CC: [13]detomaso at poca.com   > From: [14]MikeLDrew at aol.com   >
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cylinder Heads leaking   > Date: Fri, 20 Nov
   2015 16:12:19 -0800   > To: [15]seanmundy at hotmail.com   >   > Sean,
   >   > This is a VERY common problem. Your intake manifold gasket has
   failed   and is leaking on the bottom edge, allowing oil to be sucked
   from the   valley under the intake into one or more cylinders.   >   >
   Many people have made the mistake of using Fel-Pro 'Print-o-seal'
   intake gaskets. These things are notorious for failing; so much so
   that   you can find numerous references to them on Internet forums for
   all   sorts of cars, where they are commonly called 'Print-o-leak'
   gaskets!   >   > I happen to favor the stock-style valley pan gasket,
   Fel pro MS96012.   If you follow the installation instructions to the
   letter, these seal   fine with the added advantage of cooling the
   underside of the intake by   shielding it from oil splash.   >   >
   There is a story with photos about this chronic problem in a recent
   PCNC newsletter; you can read it by accessing the website at
   [16]www.panteraclubnorcal.com   >   > I've helped repair two local cars
   with this problem in the past few   months and know of a third that is
   awaiting repair....   >   > Mike   >   >   >   > Sent from my iPhone
   >   > On Nov 20, 2015, at 15:42, sean mundy <[17]seanmundy at hotmail.com>
   wrote:   >   > > After a long hiatus, I am back working on my Pantera.
   Latest issue   is   > > the engine is burning oil at about a quart
   every 300 miles.   > > My spark plugs don't look horrible but something
   is going on. I re   > > torqued the cylinder heads and intake manifold
   and made sure my pc   > > valve was working. I looked at my intake
   valves with an   > > inspection camera and there is a lot of carbon
   buildup but I only   have   > > about 2k miles on the new aluminum
   heads. I thought my valve seals   may   > > be leaking so I started
   removing the rockers on one side and tried   to   > > replace the
   Teflon valve seals on #8cyl with new Comp Cam Viton   seals.   > > I
   connected compressed air to the #8 spark plug hole to hold the
   valve   > > up so I could remove the spring. I don't think you are
   supposed to   > > but I can hear air leaking from somewhere inside the
   engine. It   seems   > > like I can feel a little air coming out of the
   top of the intake   > > manifold with my carb removed. I can't trace
   the air leak.   > > Need some tips on what steps I should take at this
   point. Thanks,   Sean   > >
   _______________________________________________   > >   > > Detomaso
   Forum Managed by POCA   > > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
   Megabytes   > > DeTomaso mailing list   > > [18]DeTomaso at poca.com   > >
   [19]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com   > >   > > To
   manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,   etc.)
   use the links above.
   _______________________________________________Detomaso Forum Managed
   by POCAPosted emails must not exceed 1.5 MegabytesDeTomaso mailing
   [20]listDeTomaso at poca.comhttp://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca
   .comTo manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
   etc.) use the links above.

      I tried pumping air into 7 and 8 spark plug holes and both I can
   hear
      air leaking.  I have all my rockers removed on that side so all the
      valves should be closed.  I've tried a few different types of
   gaskets
      but buying the CHI specific ones seemed to be the best approach.
   They
      fit perfect so I hoped my valve seals were the problem especially
   since
      there is a lot of blue smoke on startup after the car has been
      sitting awhile.  I re torqued the heads thinking the air leak could
      only be either the valves or a leaking head gasket.  I have no signs
      of coolant in my oil.  Maybe I have multiple problems ?
        __________________________________________________________________
      Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2015 00:52:12 +0000
      From: [21]ehpantera at yahoo.com
      To: [22]seanmundy at hotmail.com; [23]mikeldrew at aol.com
      CC: [24]detomaso at poca.com
      Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cylinder Heads leaking
      I just buy a roll of gasket material and cut my own. Never any leaks
      and easy to do.
      Mark
      On Friday, November 20, 2015 7:30 PM, sean mundy
      <[25]seanmundy at hotmail.com> wrote:
        Thank you Mike.  That explains a possible oil leak being sucked in
      via
        a leak but that wouldn't account for me hearing air leaking when
        pumping air into the cylinder with both valves closed?  I have CHI
        heads and CHI intake and I'm using their specific intake gasket
   set.
      I
        don't think the stock gasket is going to match up all that well.
        > CC: [1][26]detomaso at poca.com
        > From: [2][27]MikeLDrew at aol.com
        > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cylinder Heads leaking
        > Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2015 16:12:19 -0800
        > To: [3][28]seanmundy at hotmail.com
        >
        > Sean,
        >
        > This is a VERY common problem. Your intake manifold gasket has
      failed
        and is leaking on the bottom edge, allowing oil to be sucked from
   the
        valley under the intake into one or more cylinders.
        >
        > Many people have made the mistake of using Fel-Pro
   'Print-o-seal'
        intake gaskets. These things are notorious for failing; so much so
      that
        you can find numerous references to them on Internet forums for
   all
        sorts of cars, where they are commonly called 'Print-o-leak'
   gaskets!
        >
        > I happen to favor the stock-style valley pan gasket, Fel pro
      MS96012.
        If you follow the installation instructions to the letter, these
   seal
        fine with the added advantage of cooling the underside of the
   intake
      by
        shielding it from oil splash.
        >
        > There is a story with photos about this chronic problem in a
   recent
        PCNC newsletter; you can read it by accessing the website at
        [29]www.panteraclubnorcal.com
        >
        > I've helped repair two local cars with this problem in the past
   few
        months and know of a third that is awaiting repair....
        >
        > Mike
        >
        >
        >
        > Sent from my iPhone
        >
        > On Nov 20, 2015, at 15:42, sean mundy
   <[4][30]seanmundy at hotmail.com>
      wrote:
        >
        > > After a long hiatus, I am back working on my Pantera. Latest
      issue
        is
        > > the engine is burning oil at about a quart every 300 miles.
        > > My spark plugs don't look horrible but something is going on.
   I
      re
        > > torqued the cylinder heads and intake manifold and made sure
   my
      pc
        > > valve was working. I looked at my intake valves with an
        > > inspection camera and there is a lot of carbon buildup but I
   only
        have
        > > about 2k miles on the new aluminum heads. I thought my valve
      seals
        may
        > > be leaking so I started removing the rockers on one side and
      tried
        to
        > > replace the Teflon valve seals on #8cyl with new Comp Cam
   Viton
        seals.
        > > I connected compressed air to the #8 spark plug hole to hold
   the
        valve
        > > up so I could remove the spring. I don't think you are
   supposed
      to
        > > but I can hear air leaking from somewhere inside the engine.
   It
        seems
        > > like I can feel a little air coming out of the top of the
   intake
        > > manifold with my carb removed. I can't trace the air leak.
        > > Need some tips on what steps I should take at this point.
   Thanks,
        Sean
        > > _______________________________________________
        > >
        > > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
        > > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
        > > DeTomaso mailing list
        > > [5][31]DeTomaso at poca.com
        > > [6][32]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
        > >
        > > To manage your subscription (change email address,
   unsubscribe,
        etc.) use the links above.
      _______________________________________________
      Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
      Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
      DeTomaso mailing list
      [7][33]DeTomaso at poca.com
      [8][34]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
      To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
   etc.)
      use the links above.
   References
      1. [35]mailto:detomaso at poca.com
      2. [36]mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
      3. [37]mailto:seanmundy at hotmail.com
      4. [38]mailto:seanmundy at hotmail.com
      5. [39]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
      6. [40]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
      7. [41]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
      8. [42]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   _______________________________________________
   Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
   Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
   DeTomaso mailing list
   [43]DeTomaso at poca.com
   [44]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
   use the links above.

References

   1. mailto:seanmundy at hotmail.com
   2. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
   3. mailto:seanmundy at hotmail.com
   4. mailto:ehpantera at yahoo.com
   5. mailto:mikeldrew at aol.com
   6. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
   7. mailto:seanmundy at hotmail.com
   8. mailto:ehpantera at yahoo.com
   9. mailto:seanmundy at hotmail.com
  10. mailto:mikeldrew at aol.com
  11. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  12. mailto:seanmundy at hotmail.com
  13. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  14. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
  15. mailto:seanmundy at hotmail.com
  16. http://www.panteraclubnorcal.com/
  17. mailto:seanmundy at hotmail.com
  18. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  19. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  20. mailto:listDeTomaso at poca.comhttp
  21. mailto:ehpantera at yahoo.com
  22. mailto:seanmundy at hotmail.com
  23. mailto:mikeldrew at aol.com
  24. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  25. mailto:seanmundy at hotmail.com
  26. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  27. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
  28. mailto:seanmundy at hotmail.com
  29. http://www.panteraclubnorcal.com/
  30. mailto:seanmundy at hotmail.com
  31. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  32. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  33. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  34. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  35. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  36. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
  37. mailto:seanmundy at hotmail.com
  38. mailto:seanmundy at hotmail.com
  39. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  40. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  41. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  42. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  43. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  44. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com


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