[DeTomaso] Cylinder Heads leaking

Joseph F. Byrd, Jr. byrdjf at embarqmail.com
Sun Nov 22 20:38:12 EST 2015 

This is just the abstract thinking of someone not an automotive mechanic,
but performed similar on other equipment.

Think about this, Tape a thin plastic bathroom size trash bag over the carb,
the tail pipe and oil fill cap.
Then, with air being injected through the spark plug, see which bag
inflates.

I was thinking about using a trace gas in lieu of air injecting, but
probably with the close proximities, it might not distinguish where the hit
was coming from (besides that would require a gas and a sniffer to detect) 


-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of sean mundy
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2015 19:43 PM
To: Asa Jay Laughton
Cc: mikeldrew at aol.com; detomaso at poca.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cylinder Heads leaking

Compression test shows1= 1602= 1203= 2004= couldnt get the comp tester in
the spark plug hole.  Too tight with the coolant tank in the way.On 5-8  I
was hooking up the comp tester and getting really bad readings but I didn't
have the rockers arms installedand I think that is necessary.  Not sure if
the readings I did get show a piston ring problem or a valve leak.  I will
do a leak down test next when I pick up a tester.
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2015 07:00:21 -0800
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cylinder Heads leaking
From: asajay at asajay.com
To: seanmundy at hotmail.com
CC: ehpantera at yahoo.com; mikeldrew at aol.com; detomaso at poca.com

The air is probably leaking past the rings, which have a designed in gap.
With the valves closed, the cylinder is NOT a hermetically sealed container.
Asa  Jay
Sent using Jedi Mind Tricks

sean mundy <seanmundy at hotmail.com> wrote:

I tried pumping air into 7 and 8 spark plug holes and both I can hear air
leaking.  I have all my rockers removed on that side so all the valves
should be closed.  I've tried a few different types of gaskets but buying
the CHI specific ones seemed to be the best approach.  They fit perfect so I
hoped my valve seals were the problem especially since there is a lot of
blue smoke on startup after the car has been sitting awhile.  I re torqued
the heads thinking the air leak could only be either the valves or a leaking
head gasket.  I have no signs of coolant in my oil.  Maybe I have multiple
problems ?
 
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2015 00:52:12 +0000
From: ehpantera at yahoo.com
To: seanmundy at hotmail.com; mikeldrew at aol.com
CC: detomaso at poca.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cylinder Heads leaking

I just buy a roll of gasket material and cut my own. Never any leaks and
easy to do.Mark 


    On Friday, November 20, 2015 7:30 PM, sean mundy <seanmundy at hotmail.com>
wrote:
  

    Thank you Mike.  That explains a possible oil leak being sucked in via
a leak but that wouldn't account for me hearing air leaking when   pumping
air into the cylinder with both valves closed?   I have CHI   heads and CHI
intake and I'm using their specific intake gasket set. I   don't think the
stock gasket is going to match up all that well.   > CC: detomaso at poca.com
> From: MikeLDrew at aol.com   > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cylinder Heads leaking
> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2015 16:12:19 -0800   > To: seanmundy at hotmail.com   >
> Sean,   >   > This is a VERY common problem. Your intake manifold gasket
has failed   and is leaking on the bottom edge, allowing oil to be sucked
from the   valley under the intake into one or more cylinders.   >   > Many
people have made the mistake of using Fel-Pro 'Print-o-seal'   intake
gaskets. These things are notorious for failing; so much so that   you can
find numerous references to them on Internet forums for all   sorts of cars,
where they are commonly called 'Print-o-leak' gaskets!   >   > I happen to
favor the stock-style valley pan gasket, Fel pro MS96012.   If you follow
the installation instructions to the letter, these seal   fine with the
added advantage of cooling the underside of the intake by   shielding it
from oil splash.   >   > There is a story with photos about this chronic
problem in a recent   PCNC newsletter; you can read it by accessing the
website at   www.panteraclubnorcal.com   >   > I've helped repair two local
cars with this problem in the past few   months and know of a third that is
awaiting repair....   >   > Mike   >   >   >   > Sent from my iPhone   >   >
On Nov 20, 2015, at 15:42, sean mundy <seanmundy at hotmail.com> wrote:   >   >
> After a long hiatus, I am back working on my Pantera. Latest issue   is
> > the engine is burning oil at about a quart every 300 miles.   > > My
spark plugs don't look horrible but something is going on. I re   > >
torqued the cylinder heads and intake manifold and made sure my pc   > >
valve was working. I looked at my intake valves with an   > > inspection
camera and there is a lot of carbon buildup but I only   have   > > about 2k
miles on the new aluminum heads. I thought my valve seals   may   > > be
leaking so I started removing the rockers on one side and tried   to   > >
replace the Teflon valve seals on #8cyl with new Comp Cam Viton   seals.   >
> I connected compressed air to the #8 spark plug hole to hold the   valve
> > up so I could remove the spring. I don't think you are supposed to   > >
but I can hear air leaking from somewhere inside the engine. It   seems   >
> like I can feel a little air coming out of the top of the intake   > >
manifold with my carb removed. I can't trace the air leak.   > > Need some
tips on what steps I should take at this point. Thanks,   Sean   > >
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   I tried pumping air into 7 and 8 spark plug holes and both I can hear
   air leaking.  I have all my rockers removed on that side so all the
   valves should be closed.  I've tried a few different types of gaskets
   but buying the CHI specific ones seemed to be the best approach.  They
   fit perfect so I hoped my valve seals were the problem especially since
   there is a lot of blue smoke on startup after the car has been
   sitting awhile.  I re torqued the heads thinking the air leak could
   only be either the valves or a leaking head gasket.  I have no signs
   of coolant in my oil.  Maybe I have multiple problems ?
     __________________________________________________________________

   Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2015 00:52:12 +0000
   From: ehpantera at yahoo.com
   To: seanmundy at hotmail.com; mikeldrew at aol.com
   CC: detomaso at poca.com
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cylinder Heads leaking
   I just buy a roll of gasket material and cut my own. Never any leaks
   and easy to do.
   Mark
   On Friday, November 20, 2015 7:30 PM, sean mundy
   <seanmundy at hotmail.com> wrote:
     Thank you Mike.  That explains a possible oil leak being sucked in
   via
     a leak but that wouldn't account for me hearing air leaking when
     pumping air into the cylinder with both valves closed?  I have CHI
     heads and CHI intake and I'm using their specific intake gasket set.
   I
     don't think the stock gasket is going to match up all that well.
     > CC: [1]detomaso at poca.com
     > From: [2]MikeLDrew at aol.com
     > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cylinder Heads leaking
     > Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2015 16:12:19 -0800
     > To: [3]seanmundy at hotmail.com
     >
     > Sean,
     >
     > This is a VERY common problem. Your intake manifold gasket has
   failed
     and is leaking on the bottom edge, allowing oil to be sucked from the
     valley under the intake into one or more cylinders.
     >
     > Many people have made the mistake of using Fel-Pro 'Print-o-seal'
     intake gaskets. These things are notorious for failing; so much so
   that
     you can find numerous references to them on Internet forums for all
     sorts of cars, where they are commonly called 'Print-o-leak' gaskets!
     >
     > I happen to favor the stock-style valley pan gasket, Fel pro
   MS96012.
     If you follow the installation instructions to the letter, these seal
     fine with the added advantage of cooling the underside of the intake
   by
     shielding it from oil splash.
     >
     > There is a story with photos about this chronic problem in a recent
     PCNC newsletter; you can read it by accessing the website at
     www.panteraclubnorcal.com
     >
     > I've helped repair two local cars with this problem in the past few
     months and know of a third that is awaiting repair....
     >
     > Mike
     >
     >
     >
     > Sent from my iPhone
     >
     > On Nov 20, 2015, at 15:42, sean mundy <[4]seanmundy at hotmail.com>
   wrote:
     >
     > > After a long hiatus, I am back working on my Pantera. Latest
   issue
     is
     > > the engine is burning oil at about a quart every 300 miles.
     > > My spark plugs don't look horrible but something is going on. I
   re
     > > torqued the cylinder heads and intake manifold and made sure my
   pc
     > > valve was working. I looked at my intake valves with an
     > > inspection camera and there is a lot of carbon buildup but I only
     have
     > > about 2k miles on the new aluminum heads. I thought my valve
   seals
     may
     > > be leaking so I started removing the rockers on one side and
   tried
     to
     > > replace the Teflon valve seals on #8cyl with new Comp Cam Viton
     seals.
     > > I connected compressed air to the #8 spark plug hole to hold the
     valve
     > > up so I could remove the spring. I don't think you are supposed
   to
     > > but I can hear air leaking from somewhere inside the engine. It
     seems
     > > like I can feel a little air coming out of the top of the intake
     > > manifold with my carb removed. I can't trace the air leak.
     > > Need some tips on what steps I should take at this point. Thanks,
     Sean
     > > _______________________________________________
     > >
     > > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
     > > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
     > > DeTomaso mailing list
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     > >
     > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
     etc.) use the links above.
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References

   1. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
   2. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
   3. mailto:seanmundy at hotmail.com
   4. mailto:seanmundy at hotmail.com
   5. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
   6. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   7. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
   8. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

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