[DeTomaso] Cylinder Heads leaking
Brian Dudley
bd8134 at gmail.com
Fri Nov 20 21:45:37 EST 2015
100 psi is ok, for a leak down tester it depends on what it is calibrated /
rated for.
Some have a little chart to convert the "leakage" pressure to a percentage.
Most times 80 - 90 psi is good.
On Fri, Nov 20, 2015 at 9:24 PM, sean mundy <seanmundy at hotmail.com> wrote:
> That is a good idea to use a hose to listen for the leak. Are you saying
> I should pump up to 100psi to listen for the leak or is that what you use
> for a leakdown test?
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2015 21:06:36 -0500
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cylinder Heads leaking
> From: bd8134 at gmail.com
> To: seanmundy at hotmail.com
> CC: larry at ohiotimecorp.com; ehpantera at yahoo.com; mikeldrew at aol.com;
> detomaso at poca.com
>
> 3% is good, 10 - 15% is rebuild time, but you are also comparing one
> cylinder to another.
> You would also use a higher pressure, 80 - 100 psi.
> You might push the piston down which is why Larry mentioned locking the
> flywheel.
> Increase the pressure and use a hose to your ear to trace the noise.
> You expect most air coming from past the pistons. It might be hard to hear
> if you have the rocker covers off.
> Maybe fit those back on for now.
>
> On Fri, Nov 20, 2015 at 8:58 PM, sean mundy <seanmundy at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> I have a compression tester but not a leakdown.
> Do you know what pressure drop I should show on a leakdown test?
> I tried lightly tapping the valves but it didn't make a difference. I'm
> only pushing 30psi in there. I sprayed some oil around the spark plug hole
> to verify my air connection was tight which it is. It's hard to tell where
> the hissing leak is coming from with the engine in the car. It sounds like
> its coming from right in the middle of the engine.
> My hearing isn't quite what it used to be unfortunately.
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2015 20:34:06 -0500
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cylinder Heads leaking
> From: bd8134 at gmail.com
> To: Larry at ohiotimecorp.com
> CC: seanmundy at hotmail.com; ehpantera at yahoo.com; mikeldrew at aol.com;
> detomaso at poca.com
>
> It might help to get a leak down tester to see how bad the leak is, a
> certain amount of leakage is allowable.
> You don't say if you get the same amount of leakage from the other
> cylinders.
> Were you burning oil before you fitted the heads?
> Depending on where you piston is on its stroke you can tap on the top of
> the valve.
> Doing this allows the valve to reseat itself, you sometimes get deposits
> not allowing the valve to seal properly against its seat.
> A leak down tester is no use for detecting bad valve seals though.
>
> On Fri, Nov 20, 2015 at 8:20 PM, Larry - Ohio Time <Larry at ohiotimecorp.com
> > wrote:
>
> Hi Sean,
>
> If you hear air around the carb it is the intake valve leaking.
> If you hear air around the exhaust it is the exhaust valve leaking.
> If you see air in the radiator it is a crack or head gasket.
> If you hear air around the crank case it is the rings.
>
> You should bring the piston up to top dead center and lock the flywheel
> down
> and test it that way as the rings may seal better on top of the bore.
>
> Larry (uses a leak down tester) - Cleveland
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of sean mundy
> Sent: Friday, November 20, 2015 8:03 PM
> To: mark skwarek; mikeldrew at aol.com
> Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cylinder Heads leaking
>
> I tried pumping air into 7 and 8 spark plug holes and both I can hear air
> leaking. I have all my rockers removed on that side so all the valves
> should be closed. I've tried a few different types of gaskets but buying
> the CHI specific ones seemed to be the best approach. They fit perfect so
> I
> hoped my valve seals were the problem especially since there is a lot of
> blue smoke on startup after the car has been sitting awhile. I re torqued
> the heads thinking the air leak could only be either the valves or a
> leaking
> head gasket. I have no signs of coolant in my oil. Maybe I have multiple
> problems ?
>
> Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2015 00:52:12 +0000
> From: ehpantera at yahoo.com
> To: seanmundy at hotmail.com; mikeldrew at aol.com
> CC: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cylinder Heads leaking
>
> I just buy a roll of gasket material and cut my own. Never any leaks and
> easy to do.Mark
>
>
> On Friday, November 20, 2015 7:30 PM, sean mundy <
> seanmundy at hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> Thank you Mike. That explains a possible oil leak being sucked in via
> a leak but that wouldn't account for me hearing air leaking when pumping
> air into the cylinder with both valves closed? I have CHI heads and CHI
> intake and I'm using their specific intake gasket set. I don't think the
> stock gasket is going to match up all that well. > CC: detomaso at poca.com
> > From: MikeLDrew at aol.com > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cylinder Heads
> leaking
> > Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2015 16:12:19 -0800 > To: seanmundy at hotmail.com >
> > Sean, > > This is a VERY common problem. Your intake manifold gasket
> has failed and is leaking on the bottom edge, allowing oil to be sucked
> from the valley under the intake into one or more cylinders. > > Many
> people have made the mistake of using Fel-Pro 'Print-o-seal' intake
> gaskets. These things are notorious for failing; so much so that you can
> find numerous references to them on Internet forums for all sorts of
> cars,
> where they are commonly called 'Print-o-leak' gaskets! > > I happen to
> favor the stock-style valley pan gasket, Fel pro MS96012. If you follow
> the installation instructions to the letter, these seal fine with the
> added advantage of cooling the underside of the intake by shielding it
> from oil splash. > > There is a story with photos about this chronic
> problem in a recent PCNC newsletter; you can read it by accessing the
> website at www.panteraclubnorcal.com > > I've helped repair two
> local
> cars with this problem in the past few months and know of a third that is
> awaiting repair.... > > Mike > > > > Sent from my iPhone >
> >
> On Nov 20, 2015, at 15:42, sean mundy <seanmundy at hotmail.com> wrote: >
> >
> > After a long hiatus, I am back working on my Pantera. Latest issue is
> > > the engine is burning oil at about a quart every 300 miles. > > My
> spark plugs don't look horrible but something is going on. I re > >
> torqued the cylinder heads and intake manifold and made sure my pc > >
> valve was working. I looked at my intake valves with an > > inspection
> camera and there is a lot of carbon buildup but I only have > > about
> 2k
> miles on the new aluminum heads. I thought my valve seals may > > be
> leaking so I started removing the rockers on one side and tried to > >
> replace the Teflon valve seals on #8cyl with new Comp Cam Viton seals.
> >
> > I connected compressed air to the #8 spark plug hole to hold the valve
> > > up so I could remove the spring. I don't think you are supposed to >
> >
> but I can hear air leaking from somewhere inside the engine. It seems >
> > like I can feel a little air coming out of the top of the intake > >
> manifold with my carb removed. I can't trace the air leak. > > Need some
> tips on what steps I should take at this point. Thanks, Sean > >
> _______________________________________________ > > > > Detomaso Forum
> Managed by POCA > > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > >
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>
>
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-------------- next part --------------
100 psi is ok, for a leak down tester it depends on what it is
calibrated / rated for.
Some have a little chart to convert the "leakage" pressure to a
percentage.
Most times 80 - 90 psi is good.
On Fri, Nov 20, 2015 at 9:24 PM, sean mundy <[1]seanmundy at hotmail.com>
wrote:
That is a good idea toA use a hose to listen for the leak.A A Are
youA saying I should pump up to 100psiA to listen for the leak or is
that what you use for aA leakdown test?
A
__________________________________________________________________
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2015 21:06:36 -0500
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cylinder Heads leaking
From: [2]bd8134 at gmail.com
To: [3]seanmundy at hotmail.com
CC: [4]larry at ohiotimecorp.com; [5]ehpantera at yahoo.com;
[6]mikeldrew at aol.com; [7]detomaso at poca.com
3% is good, 10 - 15% is rebuild time, but you are also comparing one
cylinder to another.
You would also use a higher pressure, 80 - 100 psi.
You might push the piston down which is why Larry mentioned locking the
flywheel.
Increase the pressure and use a hose to your ear to trace the noise.
You expect most air coming from past the pistons. It might be hard to
hear if you have the rocker covers off.
Maybe fit those back on for now.
On Fri, Nov 20, 2015 at 8:58 PM, sean mundy <[8]seanmundy at hotmail.com>
wrote:
I have a compression tester but not a leakdown.A
Do you know what pressure drop I shouldA show on a leakdown test?
I tried lightlyA tapping theA valvesA but it didn't make a
difference.A I'm only pushing 30psi in there.A I sprayed some oil
around the spark plug hole toA verify my air connection was tight which
it is.A It's hard to tell where the hissing leak is coming from with
the engine in the car.A It sounds like its coming fromA right in the
middle of the engine.A
My hearing isn't quite what it used to beA unfortunately.
A
__________________________________________________________________
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2015 20:34:06 -0500
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cylinder Heads leaking
From: [9]bd8134 at gmail.com
To: [10]Larry at ohiotimecorp.com
CC: [11]seanmundy at hotmail.com; [12]ehpantera at yahoo.com;
[13]mikeldrew at aol.com; [14]detomaso at poca.com
It might help to get a leak down tester to see how bad the leak is, a
certain amount of leakage is allowable.
You don't say if you get the same amount of leakage from the other
cylinders.
Were you burning oil before you fitted the heads?
Depending on where you piston is on its stroke you can tap on the top
of the valve.A
Doing this allows the valve to reseat itself, you sometimes get
deposits not allowing the valve to seal properly against its seat.A
A leak down tester is no use for detecting bad valve seals though.
On Fri, Nov 20, 2015 at 8:20 PM, Larry - Ohio Time
<[15]Larry at ohiotimecorp.com> wrote:
Hi Sean,
If you hear air around the carb it is the intake valve leaking.
If you hear air around the exhaust it is the exhaust valve leaking.
If you see air in the radiator it is a crack or head gasket.
If you hear air around the crank case it is the rings.
You should bring the piston up to top dead center and lock the
flywheel down
and test it that way as the rings may seal better on top of the
bore.
Larry (uses a leak down tester) - Cleveland
-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso [mailto:[16]detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of
sean mundy
Sent: Friday, November 20, 2015 8:03 PM
To: mark skwarek; [17]mikeldrew at aol.com
Cc: [18]detomaso at poca.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cylinder Heads leaking
I tried pumping air into 7 and 8 spark plug holes and both I can
hear air
leaking.A I have all my rockers removed on that side so all the
valves
should be closed.A I've tried a few different types of gaskets but
buying
the CHI specific ones seemed to be the best approach.A They fit
perfect so I
hoped my valve seals were the problem especially since there is a
lot of
blue smoke on startup after the car has been sitting awhile.A I re
torqued
the heads thinking the air leak could only be either the valves or a
leaking
head gasket.A I have no signs of coolant in my oil.A Maybe I have
multiple
problems ?
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2015 00:52:12 +0000
From: [19]ehpantera at yahoo.com
To: [20]seanmundy at hotmail.com; [21]mikeldrew at aol.com
CC: [22]detomaso at poca.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cylinder Heads leaking
I just buy a roll of gasket material and cut my own. Never any leaks
and
easy to do.Mark
A A On Friday, November 20, 2015 7:30 PM, sean mundy
<[23]seanmundy at hotmail.com>
wrote:
A A Thank you Mike.A That explains a possible oil leak being
sucked in via
a leak but that wouldn't account for me hearing air leaking whenA
A pumping
air into the cylinder with both valves closed?A A I have CHIA
A heads and CHI
intake and I'm using their specific intake gasket set. IA A don't
think the
stock gasket is going to match up all that well.A A > CC:
[24]detomaso at poca.com
> From: [25]MikeLDrew at aol.comA A > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cylinder
Heads leaking
> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2015 16:12:19 -0800A A > To:
[26]seanmundy at hotmail.comA A >
> Sean,A A >A A > This is a VERY common problem. Your intake
manifold gasket
has failedA A and is leaking on the bottom edge, allowing oil to be
sucked
from theA A valley under the intake into one or more cylinders.A
A >A A > Many
people have made the mistake of using Fel-Pro 'Print-o-seal'A
A intake
gaskets. These things are notorious for failing; so much so thatA
A you can
find numerous references to them on Internet forums for allA
A sorts of cars,
where they are commonly called 'Print-o-leak' gaskets!A A >A A > I
happen to
favor the stock-style valley pan gasket, Fel pro MS96012.A A If you
follow
the installation instructions to the letter, these sealA A fine
with the
added advantage of cooling the underside of the intake byA
A shielding it
from oil splash.A A >A A > There is a story with photos about this
chronic
problem in a recentA A PCNC newsletter; you can read it by
accessing the
website atA A [27]www.panteraclubnorcal.comA A >A A > I've helped
repair two local
cars with this problem in the past fewA A months and know of a
third that is
awaiting repair....A A >A A > MikeA A >A A >A A >A A > Sent
from my iPhoneA A >A A >
On Nov 20, 2015, at 15:42, sean mundy <[28]seanmundy at hotmail.com>
wrote:A A >A A >
> After a long hiatus, I am back working on my Pantera. Latest
issueA A is
> > the engine is burning oil at about a quart every 300 miles.A
A > > My
spark plugs don't look horrible but something is going on. I reA
A > >
torqued the cylinder heads and intake manifold and made sure my pcA
A > >
valve was working. I looked at my intake valves with anA A > >
inspection
camera and there is a lot of carbon buildup but I onlyA A haveA
A > > about 2k
miles on the new aluminum heads. I thought my valve sealsA A mayA
A > > be
leaking so I started removing the rockers on one side and triedA
A toA A > >
replace the Teflon valve seals on #8cyl with new Comp Cam VitonA
A seals.A A >
> I connected compressed air to the #8 spark plug hole to hold theA
A valve
> > up so I could remove the spring. I don't think you are supposed
toA A > >
but I can hear air leaking from somewhere inside the engine. ItA
A seemsA A >
> like I can feel a little air coming out of the top of the intakeA
A > >
manifold with my carb removed. I can't trace the air leak.A A > >
Need some
tips on what steps I should take at this point. Thanks,A A SeanA
A > >
_______________________________________________A A > >A A > >
Detomaso Forum
Managed by POCAA A > > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5
MegabytesA A > >
DeTomaso mailing listA A > > [29]DeTomaso at poca.comA A > >
[30]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.comA A > >A A >
> To manage
your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,A A etc.) use
the links
above.
_______________________________________________Detomaso Forum
Managed by
POCAPosted emails must not exceed 1.5 MegabytesDeTomaso mailing
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oca.comTo
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use the
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References
1. mailto:seanmundy at hotmail.com
2. mailto:bd8134 at gmail.com
3. mailto:seanmundy at hotmail.com
4. mailto:larry at ohiotimecorp.com
5. mailto:ehpantera at yahoo.com
6. mailto:mikeldrew at aol.com
7. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
8. mailto:seanmundy at hotmail.com
9. mailto:bd8134 at gmail.com
10. mailto:Larry at ohiotimecorp.com
11. mailto:seanmundy at hotmail.com
12. mailto:ehpantera at yahoo.com
13. mailto:mikeldrew at aol.com
14. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
15. mailto:Larry at ohiotimecorp.com
16. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
17. mailto:mikeldrew at aol.com
18. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
19. mailto:ehpantera at yahoo.com
20. mailto:seanmundy at hotmail.com
21. mailto:mikeldrew at aol.com
22. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
23. mailto:seanmundy at hotmail.com
24. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
25. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
26. mailto:seanmundy at hotmail.com
27. http://www.panteraclubnorcal.com/
28. mailto:seanmundy at hotmail.com
29. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
30. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
31. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.comTo
32. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
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