[DeTomaso] Fuel injection system and brakes question
jgkrenton at comcast.net
jgkrenton at comcast.net
Wed Nov 4 11:29:08 EST 2015
All:
This discussion is a good example of what makes this forum GREAT.
Thanks to everyone who helped.
Jeff / 2467
----- Original Message -----
From: "Konrad Szwab" <kszwab at gmail.com>
To: "DeTomaso Mail List" <detomaso at poca.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 3, 2015 6:49:50 PM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Fuel injection system and brakes question
Thank you Kirby, good to hear from you again.
My expectations are really low, like usual. I would like to be able to use
my Pantera once in a while for something else than a nice flat surface for
my cats to sleep on. I would like to be able to drive it to work once a
week as I used to without it not starting, dying or overheating.
I do not plan to race anyone in a 42 year old car. I lost confidence in
cars many years ago after having 18 cars that always have issues. I believe
that confidence will be restored once cars switch to electric so there are
things I can easily understand. A Tesla is out of my price range at this
time. Working on the car with my son will be an added bonus as I used to
work on it with my late father that loved the temperamental thing.
I would like to spend 2-3K$ for the injection system and around 1K for the
brakes, parts, not including labor. Of course, as we start on it probably
costs will grow, but that will not be unexpected. The shop where the
resurrection will be made is Mayco Performance, the owner is a friend of
mine and we can work on it together.
Once all of that will be done the transaxle safety wiring will be done, I
will need help/advice with that. With my luck, after the fixes probably the
transaxle will fail. It has been sitting in the garage for a number of
years...
Of course, potential pesky software after my latest nuisances with the H2
gives me pause, but I would rather deal with pesky software than with
potential engine fires.
On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 6:27 PM, Kirby Schrader <kirbyschrader at mac.com>
wrote:
> Konrad,
>
> Getting into this late, but for brakes, I’m happy with three cars with
> Wilwoods.
>
> When EFI comes up, I have lots of scars.
> I started out with an old Haltech F9A on my Pantera in 2000.
> It was an all throttle position system, sometimes called ‘Alpha N’, and
> still used a distributor.
> The best part was the Weber manifold with the throttle bodies. Individual
> runners help a lot and that’s where the smoothing of the idle and extra
> midrange come from. I was learning and it took me awhile, but I got it set
> up very nicely and it ran great. My lumpy cam idle that I had with the 4bbl
> went away…
> But I didn’t miss it.
>
> The next system I did was for my GT40. It’s an IR system, too.
> Mike Trusty recommended an Electromotive TEC3r. This is a system like
> Michael was talking about.
> Crankshaft triggered and uses coils for each plug. Long story here with a
> defective wiring harness that had me thrashing for three months to find,
> but the system is running great. I can let the car sit for literally months
> and switch the key on, hit the start button and it starts. I don’t even
> have to get in the car an do anything to the throttle. On this setup, I
> don’t use the big GM style coils. I use an MSD DIS4 and fire, believe it or
> not, Suzuki motorcycles coils on each plug. This system is running with
> each injector fired individually. What they call staged injection.
>
> I helped Don Franck install a similar system on his car and after
> something learning, he got it going just fine.
>
> Then my Haltech bit the dust on the Pantera and I ended up putting an
> Electromotive TECGT system. It’s cheaper than the TEC3r, which is their
> current high end system, and won’t run a V8 using staged injection. I call
> it batch fire. It injects all injectors at the same time. No big deal,
> honestly.
> I’ve switched back and forth on the GT40 and I can’t tell the difference…
>
> I really like both systems. They are expensive, especially when you
> consider the throttle bodies and manifold.
>
> If you go with a 4bbl type EFI, you will get some advantages for starting.
> You won’t have to rejet or rebuild your carburetor.
> Depending on the intake manifold, it will idle the same.
>
> Yes, as the Space City guys know, I’ve had issues that had me really
> pissed off, but once I got around some bad wiring, some bad coils (they
> were used off eBay, me trying to be cheap, and some tuning understanding, I
> love the systems and wouldn’t go back to a carburetor, much as Tom Upton
> razzes me about it.
>
> Yes, the race car doesn’t have EFI. It’s a vintage racer. But it’s got the
> closest, next best thing! Webers!
>
> So what do you want EFI to achieve for you?
> What do you think it will do for you?
> How much you willing to spend?
>
> That will help you get better advice.
> By the way, lots of people like the FAST systems. The software is easy to
> use and is supposedly ‘self learning’.
> On a stock motor, that would be a definite maybe with a wide band closed
> loop.
> If it’s got a decent cam and heads, I’ll bet you money that the FAST will
> quickly tell you it can’t get there from here.
> Just experience….
>
> FWIW,
> Kirby
>
> > On Nov 3, 2015, at 09:48, Konrad Szwab <kszwab at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Now that I have a bit of time to try to resurrect my poor '73A Pantera,
> > I would like to ask for recommendations/sources for the following:
> > 1. Fuel injection system for a '73 Cleveland. Recommended model and
> > sources, pitfalls in installation. Is there a write up anywhere from
> > someone who did the conversion ?
> > 2. Brake rebuild kit. Sources, pitfalls ?
> > Thanks,
> > Konrad
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > DeTomaso at poca.com
> > http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> >
> > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> use the links above.
>
>
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-------------- next part --------------
All:
This discussion is a good example of what makes this forum GREAT.
Thanks to everyone who helped.
Jeff / 2467
__________________________________________________________________
From: "Konrad Szwab" <kszwab at gmail.com>
To: "DeTomaso Mail List" <detomaso at poca.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 3, 2015 6:49:50 PM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Fuel injection system and brakes question
Thank you Kirby, good to hear from you again.
My expectations are really low, like usual. I would like to be able to
use
my Pantera once in a while for something else than a nice flat surface
for
my cats to sleep on. I would like to be able to drive it to work once a
week as I used to without it not starting, dying or overheating.
I do not plan to race anyone in a 42 year old car. I lost confidence in
cars many years ago after having 18 cars that always have issues. I
believe
that confidence will be restored once cars switch to electric so there
are
things I can easily understand. A Tesla is out of my price range at
this
time. Working on the car with my son will be an added bonus as I used
to
work on it with my late father that loved the temperamental thing.
I would like to spend 2-3K$ for the injection system and around 1K for
the
brakes, parts, not including labor. Of course, as we start on it
probably
costs will grow, but that will not be unexpected. The shop where the
resurrection will be made is Mayco Performance, the owner is a friend
of
mine and we can work on it together.
Once all of that will be done the transaxle safety wiring will be done,
I
will need help/advice with that. With my luck, after the fixes probably
the
transaxle will fail. It has been sitting in the garage for a number of
years...
Of course, potential pesky software after my latest nuisances with the
H2
gives me pause, but I would rather deal with pesky software than with
potential engine fires.
On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 6:27 PM, Kirby Schrader <kirbyschrader at mac.com>
wrote:
> Konrad,
>
> Getting into this late, but for brakes, Iam happy with three cars
with
> Wilwoods.
>
> When EFI comes up, I have lots of scars.
> I started out with an old Haltech F9A on my Pantera in 2000.
> It was an all throttle position system, sometimes called aAlpha Na,
and
> still used a distributor.
> The best part was the Weber manifold with the throttle bodies.
Individual
> runners help a lot and thatas where the smoothing of the idle and
extra
> midrange come from. I was learning and it took me awhile, but I got
it set
> up very nicely and it ran great. My lumpy cam idle that I had with
the 4bbl
> went awaya|
> But I didnat miss it.
>
> The next system I did was for my GT40. Itas an IR system, too.
> Mike Trusty recommended an Electromotive TEC3r. This is a system like
> Michael was talking about.
> Crankshaft triggered and uses coils for each plug. Long story here
with a
> defective wiring harness that had me thrashing for three months to
find,
> but the system is running great. I can let the car sit for literally
months
> and switch the key on, hit the start button and it starts. I donat
even
> have to get in the car an do anything to the throttle. On this setup,
I
> donat use the big GM style coils. I use an MSD DIS4 and fire, believe
it or
> not, Suzuki motorcycles coils on each plug. This system is running
with
> each injector fired individually. What they call staged injection.
>
> I helped Don Franck install a similar system on his car and after
> something learning, he got it going just fine.
>
> Then my Haltech bit the dust on the Pantera and I ended up putting an
> Electromotive TECGT system. Itas cheaper than the TEC3r, which is
their
> current high end system, and wonat run a V8 using staged injection. I
call
> it batch fire. It injects all injectors at the same time. No big
deal,
> honestly.
> Iave switched back and forth on the GT40 and I canat tell the
differencea|
>
> I really like both systems. They are expensive, especially when you
> consider the throttle bodies and manifold.
>
> If you go with a 4bbl type EFI, you will get some advantages for
starting.
> You wonat have to rejet or rebuild your carburetor.
> Depending on the intake manifold, it will idle the same.
>
> Yes, as the Space City guys know, Iave had issues that had me really
> pissed off, but once I got around some bad wiring, some bad coils
(they
> were used off eBay, me trying to be cheap, and some tuning
understanding, I
> love the systems and wouldnat go back to a carburetor, much as Tom
Upton
> razzes me about it.
>
> Yes, the race car doesnat have EFI. Itas a vintage racer. But itas
got the
> closest, next best thing! Webers!
>
> So what do you want EFI to achieve for you?
> What do you think it will do for you?
> How much you willing to spend?
>
> That will help you get better advice.
> By the way, lots of people like the FAST systems. The software is
easy to
> use and is supposedly aself learninga.
> On a stock motor, that would be a definite maybe with a wide band
closed
> loop.
> If itas got a decent cam and heads, Iall bet you money that the FAST
will
> quickly tell you it canat get there from here.
> Just experiencea|.
>
> FWIW,
> Kirby
>
> > On Nov 3, 2015, at 09:48, Konrad Szwab <kszwab at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Now that I have a bit of time to try to resurrect my poor '73A
Pantera,
> > I would like to ask for recommendations/sources for the
following:
> > 1. Fuel injection system for a '73 Cleveland. Recommended model
and
> > sources, pitfalls in installation. Is there a write up anywhere
from
> > someone who did the conversion ?
> > 2. Brake rebuild kit. Sources, pitfalls ?
> > Thanks,
> > Konrad
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > DeTomaso at poca.com
> > http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> >
> > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
etc.)
> use the links above.
>
>
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