[DeTomaso] Techno Question: Competion Brakes

Ken Green kenn_green at yahoo.com
Sun Nov 1 01:03:29 EDT 2015


Chuck,
    There were no issues with the Porsche calipers.  I just ran into the reality that several dimensions have to be worked out:
1)   had to go to 17 inch front wheels;2)   had to make sure the wheel cleared the face of the caliper; and3)   had to find rotors that matched the radial sweep of the pads.
    It turns out that the 996 Turbo calipers use big pads.  It took some looking, but I found a perfect fit in a Coleman Racing rotor.
    I still think the 996 Turbo calipers are a perfect upgrade for anything short of very serious racing.  I also don't want to go bigger than 17 inch front wheels, I personally think 18 inch front wheels are just too big.  I also like using calipers that are made for long term use on a street car, without frequent maintenance, a huge pad selection, and repair parts should be available indefinitely.  The 996 Turbo has nearly the identical weight distribution and the calipers had to meet German vehicle requirements.  And they look really good!
Ken
     From: Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net>
 To: 'Ken Green' <kenn_green at yahoo.com>; detomaso at poca.com 
 Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2015 1:31 PM
 Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno Question: Competion Brakes
   
  Dear Ken,


                  ......since I am not racing for money, I think the brake
  budget is a lower than the stratosphere of exotic brake materials...but
  your comments are well taken.


                  I recall your Porsche brake project.  I am surprised
  that given your engineering skills and automotive enthusiasm that the
  Turbo brakes were unexpectedly problematic.  If you had it to do all
  over, then would you still go Porsche Turbo or would you opt for an
  aftermarket street/track brake system??


                              Warmest regards, Chuck Engles



  From: Ken Green [mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com]
  Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2015 3:24 PM
  To: Charles Engles; detomaso at poca.com
  Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno Question: Competion Brakes


  Seems like the answer depends on wheel and bank account size?  The best
  stuff uses light weight carbon-ceramic rotors and is probably over $10K
  if you can find something that fits.  I also was told that the
  carbon-ceramic rotors do not have nearly the heat capacity of a heavy
  iron rotor, so you need to do something to help dissipate the heat
  before it cooks the wheel bearing.


  I worked with a local shop to adapt Porsche 996 Turbo calipers and ran
  into all kinds of issues I did not anticipate.  It all worked out well,
  but not easily.  I think there are advantages to adapting a street car
  system if you can, because there will be a lot of pad options and parts
  to maintain the calipers.  But you may be forced to 18 inch wheels to
  clear the rotors because that seems the minimum for current super
  cars.  Looks like the Wilwood carbon-ceramic rotor kits use 14 inch
  rotors which probably require 18 inch wheels.


  Ken
  _______________________________________________________________________

  From: Charles Engles <[1]cengles at cox.net>
  To: [2]detomaso at poca.com
  Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2015 12:02 PM
  Subject: [DeTomaso] Techno Question: Competion Brakes

    Dear Forum,
                              I ran the Pantera at TWS.  I have twenty +
    year old Pantera Performance Center brakes, namely, the "NASCAR" set
  up
    IIRC.  Six piston calipers in the front and four piston in the rear.
                              IF I was keen to go back to the track and
  IF I
    wanted the current "state of the art" brake system.......THEN what
  are
    the best regarded competition rotors and calipers with quick change
    pads currently??
                                                  Curious,  Chuck Engles
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References

  1. mailto:cengles at cox.net
  2. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
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  4. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

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-------------- next part --------------
   Chuck,
       There were no issues with the Porsche calipers.  I just ran into
   the reality that several dimensions have to be worked out:
   1)   had to go to 17 inch front wheels;
   2)   had to make sure the wheel cleared the face of the caliper; and
   3)   had to find rotors that matched the radial sweep of the pads.
       It turns out that the 996 Turbo calipers use big pads.  It took
   some looking, but I found a perfect fit in a Coleman Racing rotor.
       I still think the 996 Turbo calipers are a perfect upgrade for
   anything short of very serious racing.  I also don't want to go bigger
   than 17 inch front wheels, I personally think 18 inch front wheels are
   just too big.  I also like using calipers that are made for long term
   use on a street car, without frequent maintenance, a huge pad
   selection, and repair parts should be available indefinitely.  The
   996 Turbo has nearly the identical weight distribution and the calipers
   had to meet German vehicle requirements.  And they look really good!
   Ken
     __________________________________________________________________

   From: Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net>
   To: 'Ken Green' <kenn_green at yahoo.com>; detomaso at poca.com
   Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2015 1:31 PM
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno Question: Competion Brakes
     Dear Ken,
                     ......since I am not racing for money, I think the
   brake
     budget is a lower than the stratosphere of exotic brake
   materials...but
     your comments are well taken.
                     I recall your Porsche brake project.  I am surprised
     that given your engineering skills and automotive enthusiasm that the
     Turbo brakes were unexpectedly problematic.  If you had it to do all
     over, then would you still go Porsche Turbo or would you opt for an
     aftermarket street/track brake system??
                                 Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
     From: Ken Green [mailto:[1]kenn_green at yahoo.com]
     Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2015 3:24 PM
     To: Charles Engles; [2]detomaso at poca.com
     Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno Question: Competion Brakes
     Seems like the answer depends on wheel and bank account size?  The
   best
     stuff uses light weight carbon-ceramic rotors and is probably over
   $10K
     if you can find something that fits.  I also was told that the
     carbon-ceramic rotors do not have nearly the heat capacity of a heavy
     iron rotor, so you need to do something to help dissipate the heat
     before it cooks the wheel bearing.
     I worked with a local shop to adapt Porsche 996 Turbo calipers and
   ran
     into all kinds of issues I did not anticipate.  It all worked out
   well,
     but not easily.  I think there are advantages to adapting a street
   car
     system if you can, because there will be a lot of pad options and
   parts
     to maintain the calipers.  But you may be forced to 18 inch wheels to
     clear the rotors because that seems the minimum for current super
     cars.  Looks like the Wilwood carbon-ceramic rotor kits use 14 inch
     rotors which probably require 18 inch wheels.
     Ken

   _______________________________________________________________________
     From: Charles Engles <[1][3]cengles at cox.net>
     To: [2][4]detomaso at poca.com
     Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2015 12:02 PM
     Subject: [DeTomaso] Techno Question: Competion Brakes
       Dear Forum,
                                 I ran the Pantera at TWS.  I have twenty
   +
       year old Pantera Performance Center brakes, namely, the "NASCAR"
   set
     up
       IIRC.  Six piston calipers in the front and four piston in the
   rear.
                                 IF I was keen to go back to the track and
     IF I
       wanted the current "state of the art" brake system.......THEN what
     are
       the best regarded competition rotors and calipers with quick change
       pads currently??
                                                     Curious,  Chuck
   Engles
     _______________________________________________
     Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
     Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
     DeTomaso mailing list
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     To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
     use the links above.
   References
     1. mailto:[7]cengles at cox.net
     2. mailto:[8]detomaso at poca.com
     3. mailto:[9]DeTomaso at poca.com
     4. [10]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   _______________________________________________
   Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
   Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
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   To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
   use the links above.

References

   1. mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com
   2. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
   3. mailto:cengles at cox.net
   4. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
   5. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
   6. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   7. mailto:cengles at cox.net
   8. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
   9. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  10. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  11. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  12. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com


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