[DeTomaso] 160 degree thermostat vs 180 degree thermostat

Stephen steve at snclocks.com
Tue May 19 15:54:43 EDT 2015 

Good comments Tomas and Mike - which reminded me that yes, it stuck up from the block.  At which point it realized it was a not fit.  The attached picture shows the duplicate to the one I put in.  The distance from the bottom of the blocking plate to the bottom of the thermostat housing is 33 mm, as per Thomas reference drawings.  The distance from the bottom of the groove for the thermostat in the block to the restrictor plate is 26.5 mm.  So, interference of 6.5 mm.  I popped off the bottom plate by supporting the restrictor plate and tapping out the riveted copper holding it to the plunger inside of the spring.  In popping it off I increased its 'top hat' from the 4 mm original height to a bit over 5 mm.  I then flipped it over and re-riveted it to the copper plunger (bent the rim of copper I had bent to remove it back to where it was.  When done, the distance from the bottom of the thermostat housing to the bottom of the blocking plate was around 24 mm, giving just under 1/8 inch of clearance between the blocking plate and the restrictor.  Then I tested the thermostat on the stove to confirm its operation.

Playing with the one in the picture I also note that the blocking plate is a loose fit to the copper plunger.  I tried to maintain this loose fit when I re-riveted on the plate.

This explains why this thermostat is no longer listed for the 351C.  But, at least the one I played with was able to be made to fit.


Stephen Nelson


-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Drew [mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2015 12:04 PM
To: Tomas Gunnarsson
Cc: Stephen; detomaso at poca.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] 160 degree thermostat vs 180 degree thermostat

Yes, the Ford scheme only partially blocks the orifice; this is by design to allow a small amount of water through the bypass. All other Ford V8s accomplish by having a permanent open bypass whose whose area is about the same as that of the 351C bypass when it is partially blocked by the thermostat. 

It seems to me that this Murray unit is so tall that it might be in compression all the time and prevent the thermostat from even opening?

Must investigate further.....

Mike

Sent from my iPhone

On May 19, 2015, at 13:48, "Tomas Gunnarsson" <guson at home.se> wrote:

> The Ford unit hat is small enough to pass through the restrictor plate hole. It must be as it's secured to the moving part of the thermostat. The Jag unit has a spring suspended plate that's supposed to cover the hole excessively like when you put your hand over the neck of a bottle.
> 
> Tomas
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike Drew" <MikeLDrew at aol.com>
> To: "Stephen" <steve at snclocks.com>
> Cc: "Tomas Gunnarsson" <guson at home.se>; <detomaso at poca.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2015 8:37 PM
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] 160 degree thermostat vs 180 degree thermostat
> 
> 
> Hmm. Looking at the photos the height looks all wrong, as well as the size and shape of the hat. Maybe this alternative might work?  I would want to test-fit one on a bare block to be sure. 
> 
> Check out the images and part numbers here. This is what the Ford 
> units look like. I actually had an original 1972 Ford unit in my hands 
> a few months back when i was helping a guy change it out (it no longer 
> worked) and meant to keep it for reference but it went in the trash 
> instead. :(
> 
> Mike
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On May 19, 2015, at 13:27, "Stephen" <steve at snclocks.com> wrote:
> 
>> Well heck, tried to attach pictures to the original posting - I think they are there, but here they are again.
>> 
>> There was a time that O'Reilly's listed this thermostat for the 351C - back in 2008 to be more specific. 
>> 
>> Stephen Nelson
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Mike Drew [mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com]
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2015 11:01 AM
>> To: Tomas Gunnarsson
>> Cc: Stephen; detomaso at poca.com
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] 160 degree thermostat vs 180 degree 
>> thermostat
>> 
>> Fwiw I just looked at the image on the website and it shows a non-351C unit, no hat. Mifht be just a generic stock image?  The application chart lists a bunch of weird Ford Diesel engines, Mazda, Isuzu etc. and no 351C. I know of no other engine besides the C/M family of Fords that use our thermostat. 
>> 
>> I think this is a swing and a miss?  Stephen--do you actually have photos of this thing?
>> 
>> I have found the various Stant 351C units at O'Reilly easily enough, 
>> armed in advance with the proper part numbers thanks to Garth 
>> Roderick's excellent research. I strongly going to his website and 
>> following the trail he blazed so well...I fear you may be in the 
>> wilderness, and few things suck as much as an overheating Pantera due 
>> to an improper thermostat. :(
>> 
>> Mike
>> 
>> Mike
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On May 19, 2015, at 12:18, "Tomas Gunnarsson" <guson at home.se> wrote:
>> 
>>> Thanks Stephen, this is excellent info! I went to O'Reilley's site and they list a number of veicles for which this is a match. Among them is a Volvo model which should make it easy to find a local supplier here in Sweden.
>>> 
>>> Tomas
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Stephen" <steve at snclocks.com>
>>> To: "'Tomas Gunnarsson'" <guson at home.se>
>>> Cc: <detomaso at poca.com>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2015 5:49 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] 160 degree thermostat vs 180 degree 
>>> thermostat
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Funny story that - went to a number of auto parts houses, all came 
>>> up with standard thermostats (with no blocking plate) for '73 
>>> mustang 351C.  Then I recalled that I had gotten a thermostat for my 
>>> '70 XKE a few years ago from O'Reilly's - and that it is the same as 
>>> for the Stangs.  So, off to my spares collection and found a spare 
>>> thermostat that I bought in 2008.  In as much as O'Reilly's didn't 
>>> list for the Jag I had asked for a thermostat for a '73 Mustang.  
>>> Funniest part is that I then went back to O'Reilly's with the part 
>>> number and bought 2 more for spares.  Also checked with them - there are lots more at other locations.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Murray 3398
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Interestingly, the three I have all have different actuators, but 
>>> overall the same dimensions.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Hope that helps.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Stephen Nelson
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> From: Tomas Gunnarsson [mailto:guson at home.se]
>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2015 4:09 AM
>>> To: steve at snclocks.com
>>> Cc: detomaso at poca.com
>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] 160 degree thermostat vs 180 degree 
>>> thermostat
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Stephen,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> What brand thermostat are you running?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Tomas
>>> 
>>> <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> From: Stephen [steve at snclocks.com]
>>> Sent: 19/5/2015 6:03:18 AM
>>> To: detomaso at poca.com <mailto:detomaso at poca.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] 160 degree thermostat vs 180 degree 
>>> thermostat
>>> 
>>> Interestingly thermodynamics suggests the higher the engine 
>>> temperature (within limits) the higher the efficiency. And, as 
>>> pointed out, less risk of washing oil off the walls of the 
>>> cylinders. I'm running a 190 F thermostat with spring-loaded plate 
>>> to block off the bypass when the thermostat is open.
>>> 
>>> Stephen Nelson
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of B 
>>> Hower via DeTomaso
>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2015 5:58 PM
>>> To: Rob Pulsifer; detomaso at poca.com <mailto:detomaso at poca.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] 160 degree thermostat vs 180 degree 
>>> thermostat
>>> 
>>> They claim that the metal of the cylinder walls wear less at higher 
>>> temperatures starting at around 170°. I have no printed reference.
>>> This is just from my memory. Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no 
>>> tomorrow -- for there may not be ! )
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> From: Rob Pulsifer via DeTomaso <detomaso at poca.com 
>>> <mailto:detomaso at poca.com> >
>>> To: detomaso at poca.com <mailto:detomaso at poca.com>
>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2015 7:27 PM
>>> Subject: [DeTomaso] 160 degree thermostat vs 180 degree thermostat
>>> 
>>> I am currently running a 160 degree thermostat, the engine will hold 
>>> that temperature while on the hwy. I drove over 50 miles, when I 
>>> stopped I found that I had left the cap of the swirl tank. The 
>>> engine didn't over heat, only loss 2 cups of water. The car came 
>>> stock with a
>>> 160 degree thermostat. I now understand that the 180 degree 
>>> thermostat is better. Outside of the temperature will be more 
>>> constant, I really don't see the advantage of a 180 degree thermostat.
>>> 
>>> Robert Pulsifer
>>> --------------------------------------------
>>> On Sun, 5/17/15, detomaso-request at poca.com 
>>> <mailto:detomaso-request at poca.com>  <detomaso-request at poca.com 
>>> <mailto:detomaso-request at poca.com> > wrote:
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>>> Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 131, Issue 20
>>> To: detomaso at poca.com <mailto:detomaso at poca.com>
>>> Date: Sunday, May 17, 2015, 12:00 PM
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>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>> Message: 1
>>> Date: Sat, 16 May 2015 15:04:21 -0400
>>> From: jderyke at aol.com <mailto:jderyke at aol.com>
>>> To: julian_kift at hotmail.com <mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com> , 
>>> panteratime at aol.com <mailto:panteratime at aol.com> , detomaso at poca.com 
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>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Alden Shock Repair
>>> Message-ID: <14d5e1ce35c-58aa-2c158 at webprd-m65.mail.aol.com
>>> <mailto:14d5e1ce35c-58aa-2c158 at webprd-m65.mail.aol.com> >
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>> 
>>> Many Alden shocks leak from the simple o-ring that seals- sort of- 
>>> the external damping adjustment near the bottom, not at the shock 
>>> rod (which is much more serious). Hall used to repair them when they 
>>> sold the things. Who did you buy it from?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> Subject: [DeTomaso] Alden Shock Repair From:detomaso at poca.com 
>>> Folks,Noticed oil leaking from front Alden coil overaluminum shock.
>>> Purchased 3/2005. Although likely only 2000 miles on carsince then, 
>>> they leak!!! Anyone know of a rebuild kit or if rebuilding ashock by 
>>> yourself is doable? Alden isin CA, and it would cost more to shipand 
>>> pay rebuild charge than buy a new Shock likely!!!Also any hints in 
>>> frontshock removal?Thanks!!!!
>>> _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum 
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>>> 
>>> -------------- next part -------------- Many Alden shocks leak from 
>>> the simple o-ring that seals- sort of- the external damping 
>>> adjustment near the bottom, not at the shock rod (which is much more serious).
>>> Hall used to repair them when they sold the things. Who did you buy 
>>> it from?
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> Subject: [DeTomaso] Alden Shock Repair
>>> From: [1]detomaso at poca.com <mailto:detomaso at poca.com> Folks, Noticed 
>>> oil leaking from front Alden coil over aluminum shock.
>>> Purchased 3/200 5. Although likely only
>>> 2000 miles on car since then,
>>> they leak!!! Anyone know of a rebuild kit or if rebuilding a shock 
>>> by yourself is doable? Alden is in CA, and it would cost more to 
>>> ship and pay rebuild charge than buy a new Shoc k likely!!! Also any 
>>> hints in front shock removal? Thanks!!!!
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Detomaso Forum Managed
>>> by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing 
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>>> ------------------------------
>>> 
>>> Message: 2
>>> Date: Sat, 16 May 2015 17:11:58 -0400
>>> From: Rob Dumoulin <rob at dumoulins.net <mailto:rob at dumoulins.net> >
>>> To: Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com <mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com> >
>>> Cc: DeTomaso <detomaso at poca.com <mailto:detomaso at poca.com> >
>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPT Hydrogen powered Toyota
>>> Message-ID:
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>>> <CAEr4y_uA3RDp1scuzHPVLq1yZBzGZQ
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