[DeTomaso] Hugh Casey's 408C on the dyno

[Will Kooiman]

Great job.

I recognize that intake.

Boyd - be careful with the go-pedal.  That¹s a lot of HP on a stock 351C
block.  If you push it too hard, it will come apart.  And even if it
doesn¹t come apart, it will spin - a lot.


On 3/27/15, 7:31 PM, "Tony DiGiovanna" <tonydigi at optonline.net> wrote:

>1.5 HP/CID is very, very good...among the professional class I have seen
>published on reasonably-priced builds.  The elite get a little beyond
>that, like 1.6+HP/CID, but with many trick details and suspect
>reliability in observation.  I have not seen more than 1.25HP/CID on
>stock/modified/reliable vintage iron heads.  That is normally-aspirated
>Windsor/Cleveland/Clevors I'm talking about.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of Daniel C
>Jones
>Sent: Friday, March 27, 2015 1:24 PM
>To: POCA list
>Subject: [DeTomaso] Hugh Casey's 408C on the dyno
>
>Dave McLain had another 408C on the dyno recently:
>
>[IMG]
>http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l621/danielcjones2/351%20Cleveland%20S
>tuff/Hugh_Boyd_Caseys_408C/Hughs_engine_on_dyno_zps1l88pax0.jpg[/IMG]
>
>This one was for Hugh (Boyd) Casey's Pantera.  A SCAT stroker kit with 4"
>stroke 4340 forged steel crank, 6" I beam rods and Probe dished forged
>pistons was chosen.  A Rollmaster timing set that's made for the
>Cleveland block/SVO style crank combination was used which doesn't
>require a snout spacer.  Bearings are Clevite CB663HN -1 on the rods and
>mains are Federal Mogul 4925 M in a 1/2 under set to give rod clearance
>of 0.0022" and a main bearing clearance of 0.0027" nominal.  Compression
>worked out to be 10.49:1.
>
>[IMG]
>http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l621/danielcjones2/351%20Cleveland%20S
>tuff/Hugh_Boyd_Caseys_408C/Assembled_short_block_zpsofc0tgnr.jpg[/IMG]
>
>Hugh's MSD distributor was carried over from his previous engine, along
>with some other parts like the vintage Mickey Thompson cast aluminum
>valve covers.  Initial testing revealed the MSD was not advancing.  Dave
>removed it and sprayed it with penetrating oil which freed the mechanism.
> A short quick advance curve was set and the engine tested to find the
>best total timing which turned out to be 30 degrees (18 degrees initial).
> Hugh was missing a timing pointer so we robbed the one from the dyno
>mule 351C and Dave corrected it for zero before installing the heads.
>The oil pump is a stock volume, stock pressure, Melling M84A with a new
>Melling oil pump drive shaft. The oil pan is an Aviad gated and baffled
>Pantera road race pan along with the matching pickup:
>
>[IMG]
>http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l621/danielcjones2/351%20Cleveland%20S
>tuff/Hugh_Boyd_Caseys_408C/Oil_pan_zps8fqmjrxy.jpg[/IMG]
>
>Hugh had purchased Mad Dog's old 180 degree headers so needed a set of
>heads that would match the later high port header flange.  He also wanted
>the option to install independent runner EFI in the future.  The only
>readily available IR intake that fit the bill is the Hall Pantera A3
>Weber.  I had a set of new-in-the-box Ford Motorsport E2ZM-6049-A3 high
>port Cleveland aluminum heads on the shelf that I was saving for a future
>project but I let Hugh talk me out of them, along with a matching Ford
>Motorsport A331 high port intake.  We put a similar set of heads and
>intake manifold on Mark Swarek's 384C.  Externally, the A331 looks like a
>Torker (and was cast for Ford Motorsport by Edelbrock):
>
> [IMG}
>http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l621/danielcjones2/351%20Cleveland%20S
>tuff/A331_vs_Torker_01.jpg[/IMG]
>
>but has smaller A3 ports and no cross-over:
>
> [IMG]
>http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l621/danielcjones2/351%20Cleveland%20S
>tuff/A331_vs_Torker_02.jpg[/IMG]
>
>You can see how much smaller the A3 port is here:
>
> [IMG]
>http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l621/danielcjones2/351%20Cleveland%20S
>tuff/4V_intake_gasket_on_A3_head.jpg[/IMG]
>
>That's a 4V gasket on top of an A3 port.  What's not obvious is the A3
>roof is higher (obscured behind the gasket).  A3 heads can have a couple
>of different exhaust bolt patterns.  Hugh's heads have the later exhaust
>port bolt pattern which match Mad Dog's 180 degree high port headers.
>The bare head castings and a set of valves were sent to Jon Carls of JDC
>Engineering in Minonk, IL for his Stage III hand porting ($800 labor) and
>valve job.
>
>[IMG]
>http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l621/danielcjones2/351%20Cleveland%20S
>tuff/Hugh_Boyd_Caseys_408C/Ported_A3_intake_ports_zpsts3b1ow2.jpg[/IMG]
>
>[IMG]
>http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l621/danielcjones2/351%20Cleveland%20S
>tuff/Hugh_Boyd_Caseys_408C/Ported_A3_intake_port_closeup_zpsb6agvrpz.jpg[/
>IMG]
>
>[IMG]
>http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l621/danielcjones2/351%20Cleveland%20S
>tuff/Hugh_Boyd_Caseys_408C/Ported_A3_iexhaust_ports_zpszx3lczun.jpg[/IMG]
>
>[IMG]
>http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l621/danielcjones2/351%20Cleveland%20S
>tuff/Hugh_Boyd_Caseys_408C/Ported_A3_chambers_zpsc4fpjzmi.jpg[/IMG]
>
>[IMG]
>http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l621/danielcjones2/351%20Cleveland%20S
>tuff/Hugh_Boyd_Caseys_408C/Ported_A3_ibowls_zpscin3i29t.jpg[/IMG]
>
>Results from Jon's porting are shown below:
>
>[IMG]
>http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l621/danielcjones2/351%20Cleveland%20S
>tuff/Hugh_Boyd_Caseys_408C/Flow%20Chart%20Ported%20A3%20001_zpspui1yms4.jp
>g[/IMG]
>
>Flow numbers are for head without intake manifold and were taken on a
>Superflow bench at 28" H2O with a clayed intake radius but no exhaust
>pipe and a 4" diameter tube to simulate the cylinder wall:
>
> Lift...Int...Exh
> Inches CFM...CFM
> .......A3....A3
> 0.200..161...111
> 0.250..197...131
> 0.300..234...147
> 0.350..270...160
> 0.400..298...172
> 0.450..323...187
> 0.500..345...199
> 0.550..363...209
> 0.600..370...219
> 0.650..---...228
> 0.700..---...234
> 0.750..---...240
> 0.800..---...247
>
>As a comparison, here are the flow numbers for Mark's ported A3 heads, my
>unported but bowl blended and smoothed A3s and the high ported iron 4V
>heads pictured above:
>
> .......Marks A3.....My A3........Iron High Ported 4V
>Lift...Int...Exh....Int...Exh....Int...Exh
> Inches CFM...CFM....CFM...CFM....CFM...CFM
> .......A3....A3.....A3....A3.....4V....4V
> 0.025..13.9..11.6...15.7..11.7...13.4..14.3
> 0.050..34.5..28.6...34.6..28.1...34.1..25.2
> 0.100..67.1..57.4...65.5..56.7...69.9..52.9
> 0.150..96.1..88.8...95.2..87.5...94.1..80.1
> 0.200 135.4 110.0..129.2 109.8..121.0..99.4
> 0.300 198.8 145.3..188.8 142.4..183.1 133.4
> 0.400 245.5 169.1..242.8 167.0..225.5 158.4
> 0.500 288.7 188.6..287.7 186.7..266.1 174.7
> 0.600 320.6 206.2..321.4 204.4..300.8 182.6
> 0.700 343.0 223.2..337.7 216.3..325.0 188.6
> 0.800 353.4 234.1..----- -----..310.3 193.3
>
>I ran the flow numbers through Dynomation to finalize the cam specs.  The
>goal was for the cam to peak at 6000+ RPM with best average power between
>4000 and 6500 RPM.  Given the Pantera ZF 5 speed gear ratios and final
>drive ratio, this works well for a street driven hydraulic roller stroker
>Cleveland.  The cam is a custom hydraulic roller from Steve Demos using
>DM238HR intake lobes and DM242HR exhaust lobes.  Specs are 238/242
>degrees duration @ 0.050", 0.620"/0.621" lift (with 1.73:1  ratio
>rockers), 110 degrees LSA, installed on a 109 ICL.  The cam was ground on
>a SADI (Selectively Austempered Ductile Iron) core so the MSD cast iron
>distributor gear could be retained.  To match the cam's requirements,
>Dave chose a set of PAC Racing p/n 12119X beehive springs set up to give
>an average of 143 lbs seat load and 360 lbs open load with a spring rate
>of
>345 lbs/inch.  Seated height is 1.800" with an open height of 1.171" for
>0.090" bind height clearance.
>
>[IMG]
>http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l621/danielcjones2/351%20Cleveland%20S
>tuff/Hugh_Boyd_Caseys_408C/PAC_beehive_springs_zpslbjxxrql.jpg[/IMG]
>
>The chrome-moly retainers and locators were also from PAC.  Valves are
>stainless from SI valves, part numbers 2151SG and 18112 (2.19" diameter
>intake, 1.71" diameter exhaust) and valve seals are positive Viton.  The
>roller rocker arms are Comp Cams Ultra Pro Magnum XD 8650 chrome-moly
>units (p/n 1830-16, 1.73:1 ratio, 7/16" stud).
>
>[IMG]
>http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l621/danielcjones2/351%20Cleveland%20S
>tuff/Hugh_Boyd_Caseys_408C/Comp_Ultra_Pro_Magnum_XD_roller_rockers_zpsga5y
>kmqw.jpg[/IMG]
>
>Pushrods are Trend 5/16" X 0.080", 8 inches long.  Lifters are Morel link
>bar hydraulic roller retrofits.
>
>I thought we had a ported A331 and an unported A331 to test but forgot
>the ported A331 went on Mark Swarek's engine so we had only the unported
>intake.  Dave initially broke the engine in using his Holley 950 HP dyno
>carb then switched to a Bobby Oliver (Competition Carburetion in Nevada)
>custom built 740 CFM Holley.  I was hoping this engine would top 600 HP
>and was concerned the smallish carb might limit peak power so discussed
>the matter with Bobby.  He said the carb might indeed limit the power at
>peak over a larger carb but would have much better throttle response.  He
>was willing to build any size carb we wanted but, given that Hugh's
>engine was a street application with single plane intake and would never
>see over 6500 RPM, he recommended the 740.  Bobby built the carb from a
>Holley 82651 which begins life as a Holley 650HP.  The 650HP comes with
>straight leg boosters but Bobby installed down leg stepped booster and
>larger 1.750"
>diameter throttle plates from a 750 Holley instead of the stock 1.688
>diameter.  The 1.250 venturi diameter of the 650 is retained.  Jetting is
>68 front and rear with a 6.5 Hg power valve front and rear to give better
>fuel control for street and road racing.
>
>[IMG]
>http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l621/danielcjones2/351%20Cleveland%20S
>tuff/Hugh_Boyd_Caseys_408C/Bobby_Oliver_740_CFM_carb_zpsl0ioirhf.jpg[/IMG]
>
>Dave did a back-to-back test against his 950HP and the 740 made the same
>peak power but picked up 10 lbs-ft of torque so the carb flat out works.
>Dave made a wedge spacer to level the carb and removed it to gave it some
>porting to allow it to better match the intake which Dave noted had some
>ported in its past.
>
>[IMG]
>http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l621/danielcjones2/351%20Cleveland%20S
>tuff/Hugh_Boyd_Caseys_408C/Leveling_intake_spacer_zps6qi5ilux.jpg[/IMG]
>
>The blending made no real difference in power but did help the torque a
>few numbers.  The usual 1" tall spacers (open, 4 hole and HVH merge) were
>then tested with the 1" open being the best.
>
>Thus far testing was done through my 4-into-1 shorty Pantera headers
>(from Precison Proformance) with 2 1/2" glass pack mufflers bolted
>directly to the collectors.  The last test was to remove the glass pack
>mufflers and run the Pantera shorty headers with a short piece of 2 1/2"
>diameter pipe.
>The engine loved that change and picked up a little over 20 horsepower and
>10 lbs-ft of torque.  Final readings were 603 horsepower at 6000 RPM and
>552 lbs-ft of torque at 5300 RPM running on Mobil 93 octane gas.  Engine
>made best power at 30 degrees total timing.  Note the flat torque curve.
>From 4200 RPM up, the engine makes over 500 ft-lbs of torque:
>
>[IMG]
>http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l621/danielcjones2/351%20Cleveland%20S
>tuff/Hugh_Boyd_Caseys_408C/Boyds%20best%20combo_zpsanmq45a6.jpg[/IMG]
>
>Over 600 HP with a street hydraulic roller cam, a 740 CFM carb and shorty
>headers is pretty impressive.  Hugh will be running 180 degree headers
>which should improve torque and horsepower and, if you look closely at
>the graph, it appears the engine may not have peaked yet.
>
>The overall parts list ended up looking like:
>
> 4.03" bore Probe forged dish top pistons (p/n 14213-030, 1/16", 1/16"
>with 3/16" oil rings)  Mahle rings (ductile iron top, cast iron second,
>standard tension oil ring)  SCAT 4340 forged steel rods (6.0" long with
>7/16" ARP bolts)  4.00" stroke Scat 4340 forged crankshaft, SVO (Windsor
>snout with 351C
>mains) style crankshaft, neutrally balanced (p/n: 4-351C-4000-6000)
>4.03" bore x 4.00" stroke = 408 cubic inches
> 10.49:1 compression
> Ford Motorsport A331 intake manifold with leveling spacer by Dave McLain
> Ford Motorsport E2ZM-6049-A3 high port aluminum Cleveland heads ported
>by Jon Carls  SI stainless valves, part numbers 2151SG and 18112 (2.19"
>diameter intake, 1.71" diameter exhaust)  Viton positive valve seals
>Comp Cams Ultra Pro Magnum XD 8650 chrome-moly units (p/n 1830-16,
>1.73:1 ratio, 7/16" stud)  Comp Cams guide plates  Trend pushrods 5/16" X
>0.080", 8 inches long  Demos hydraulic roller cam (SADI core, 238/242
>degrees duration @ 0.050", 0.620"/0.621" lift, 110 LSA)  Morel link bar
>hydraulic roller retrofit lifters  PAC Racing p/n 12119X beehive springs:
>  143 lbs seat, 360 lbs open, 345 lbs/inch spring rate
>  1.800" seated height, 1.171" open height, 0.090" bind height clearance
>PAC chrome-moly retainers and locators  Rollmaster double roller timing
>set with integral spacer for the Cleveland block/SVO style crank
>combination  Aviad gated and baffled Pantera road race oil pan and
>matching pickup  Clevite CB663HN rod bearings (-1) and Federal Mogul 4925
>M main bearings in a 1/2 under set to give rod clearance of 0.0022" and a
> main bearing clearance of 0.0027" nominal with the Scat forged steel
>crank  Romac 351C SFI spec harmonic damper, neutral balance  Flowkooler
>aluminum water pump  Fel Pro gaskets (including head gaskets)  MSD Pro
>Billet mechanical advance distributor with cast iron distributor gear, 18
>degrees initial timing, 30 degrees total  Autolite 3923 spark plugs
>(moderate heat range, gapped at 0.045")  Precision Proformance high port
>4-into-1 Pantera headers (will get 180 degree high port headers when
>installed in car)  Custom 740 CFM Holley from Competition Carburetor
>Mickey Thompson cast aluminum valve covers
>
>Hugh plans to run a RobbMc Performance 351C mechanical fuel pump
>(available in versions capable of supporting 550 and 1100 HP) and remote
>air filters using a Spectre dual inlet air box.  I calculated he'll need
>around 130 square inches of K&N filter area.
>
>Dan Jones
>
>P.S. Some additional info from the post I put together for Mark Swarek's
>engine that apply to Hugh's engine.  The Ford Motorsport M-9439-A341
>intake manifold gaskets for the A3 heads are no longer available.  Fel
>Pro makes two intake gasket sets for the Motorsport high port heads.
>Though 1229 is listed for A3 heads, the port opening measures close to
>C302B heads (1.35"
>x 2.20").  1265 is listed for B351 and C302B heads but the port size is
>listed as 1.35" x 2.22".  Both are "trim to fit" for the A3 heads.  P/N
>1229 has round holes on both ends in case coolant is run through the
>intake (Windsor block application).  Both 1229 and 1265 of those are
>0.060"
>thick.  Fel Pro makes similar intake gaskets in thinner (p/n 12531 is
>0.030", 12532 and 1253S2 are 0.045") and thicker (12535 is 0.120") sizes
>for Yates heads that could probably be adapted if you need to compensate
>for head or intake milling.  On the exhaust side, Fel Pro makes two
>different header gaskets for high port heads.  P/N 1417 is for the early
>exhaust bolt pattern and has a 1.94" diameter round port size.  P/N 1431
>is for the later pattern and has a 1.81" diameter round port size.
>
>You can see the evolution of the high port heads here:
>
> [IMG]
>http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l621/danielcjones2/351%20Cleveland%20S
>tuff/351C_head_comparison_b_exh_cropped.jpg[/IMG]
>
>On the left is an iron 4V modified with an aluminum high port exhaust
>port plate like they ran in Pro Stock.  You can see the lower edge of the
>original exhaust port (painted blue).  In the middle is an A3 port which
>is slightly higher with a more uniform round shape, instead of the weird
>area changes of the iron 4V port.  At the right is a ported C302B.  Note
>the C302B ports start out much smaller:
>
> [IMG]
>http://s1127.photobucket.com/user/danielcjones2/media/351%20Cleveland%20St
>uff/351C_head_comparison_b_int_cropped.jpg{/IMG
>]
>
>Based upon the iron Pro Stock 351C heads, the A3 ports were designed by
>Jack Roush, Bud Moore and Leonard Wood.  As cast, they have the largest
>intake port volume (241 cc's) and exhaust port volume (134 cc's) of the
>high port family of Ford Motorsport heads:
>
> [IMG]
>http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l621/danielcjones2/351%20Cleveland%20S
>tuff/highport_comparison_cropped.jpg[/IMG]
>
>There's a slight bend on intake port walls to accommodate the pushrods
>and the raised floor increases port radius, straightening the turn for
>incoming mixture and minimizing fuel separation.
>
>
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