[DeTomaso] Hugh Casey's 408C on the dyno

Fri Mar 27 19:31:04 EDT 2015

1.5 HP/CID is very, very good...among the professional class I have seen published on reasonably-priced builds.  The elite get a little beyond that, like 1.6+HP/CID, but with many trick details and suspect reliability in observation.  I have not seen more than 1.25HP/CID on stock/modified/reliable vintage iron heads.  That is normally-aspirated Windsor/Cleveland/Clevors I'm talking about.

-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of Daniel C Jones
Sent: Friday, March 27, 2015 1:24 PM
To: POCA list
Subject: [DeTomaso] Hugh Casey's 408C on the dyno

Dave McLain had another 408C on the dyno recently:

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http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l621/danielcjones2/351%20Cleveland%20Stuff/Hugh_Boyd_Caseys_408C/Hughs_engine_on_dyno_zps1l88pax0.jpg[/IMG]

This one was for Hugh (Boyd) Casey's Pantera.  A SCAT stroker kit with 4"
stroke 4340 forged steel crank, 6" I beam rods and Probe dished forged pistons was chosen.  A Rollmaster timing set that's made for the Cleveland block/SVO style crank combination was used which doesn't require a snout spacer.  Bearings are Clevite CB663HN -1 on the rods and mains are Federal Mogul 4925 M in a 1/2 under set to give rod clearance of 0.0022" and a main bearing clearance of 0.0027" nominal.  Compression worked out to be 10.49:1.

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http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l621/danielcjones2/351%20Cleveland%20Stuff/Hugh_Boyd_Caseys_408C/Assembled_short_block_zpsofc0tgnr.jpg[/IMG]

Hugh's MSD distributor was carried over from his previous engine, along with some other parts like the vintage Mickey Thompson cast aluminum valve covers.  Initial testing revealed the MSD was not advancing.  Dave removed it and sprayed it with penetrating oil which freed the mechanism.  A short quick advance curve was set and the engine tested to find the best total timing which turned out to be 30 degrees (18 degrees initial).  Hugh was missing a timing pointer so we robbed the one from the dyno mule 351C and Dave corrected it for zero before installing the heads.  The oil pump is a stock volume, stock pressure, Melling M84A with a new Melling oil pump drive shaft. The oil pan is an Aviad gated and baffled Pantera road race pan along with the matching pickup:

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http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l621/danielcjones2/351%20Cleveland%20Stuff/Hugh_Boyd_Caseys_408C/Oil_pan_zps8fqmjrxy.jpg[/IMG]

Hugh had purchased Mad Dog's old 180 degree headers so needed a set of heads that would match the later high port header flange.  He also wanted the option to install independent runner EFI in the future.  The only readily available IR intake that fit the bill is the Hall Pantera A3 Weber.  I had a set of new-in-the-box Ford Motorsport E2ZM-6049-A3 high port Cleveland aluminum heads on the shelf that I was saving for a future project but I let Hugh talk me out of them, along with a matching Ford Motorsport A331 high port intake.  We put a similar set of heads and intake manifold on Mark Swarek's 384C.  Externally, the A331 looks like a Torker (and was cast for Ford Motorsport by Edelbrock):

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http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l621/danielcjones2/351%20Cleveland%20Stuff/A331_vs_Torker_01.jpg[/IMG]

but has smaller A3 ports and no cross-over:

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http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l621/danielcjones2/351%20Cleveland%20Stuff/A331_vs_Torker_02.jpg[/IMG]

You can see how much smaller the A3 port is here:

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http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l621/danielcjones2/351%20Cleveland%20Stuff/4V_intake_gasket_on_A3_head.jpg[/IMG]

That's a 4V gasket on top of an A3 port.  What's not obvious is the A3 roof is higher (obscured behind the gasket).  A3 heads can have a couple of different exhaust bolt patterns.  Hugh's heads have the later exhaust port bolt pattern which match Mad Dog's 180 degree high port headers.  The bare head castings and a set of valves were sent to Jon Carls of JDC Engineering in Minonk, IL for his Stage III hand porting ($800 labor) and valve job.

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http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l621/danielcjones2/351%20Cleveland%20Stuff/Hugh_Boyd_Caseys_408C/Ported_A3_intake_ports_zpsts3b1ow2.jpg[/IMG]

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http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l621/danielcjones2/351%20Cleveland%20Stuff/Hugh_Boyd_Caseys_408C/Ported_A3_intake_port_closeup_zpsb6agvrpz.jpg[/IMG]

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http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l621/danielcjones2/351%20Cleveland%20Stuff/Hugh_Boyd_Caseys_408C/Ported_A3_iexhaust_ports_zpszx3lczun.jpg[/IMG]

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http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l621/danielcjones2/351%20Cleveland%20Stuff/Hugh_Boyd_Caseys_408C/Ported_A3_chambers_zpsc4fpjzmi.jpg[/IMG]

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http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l621/danielcjones2/351%20Cleveland%20Stuff/Hugh_Boyd_Caseys_408C/Ported_A3_ibowls_zpscin3i29t.jpg[/IMG]

Results from Jon's porting are shown below:

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http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l621/danielcjones2/351%20Cleveland%20Stuff/Hugh_Boyd_Caseys_408C/Flow%20Chart%20Ported%20A3%20001_zpspui1yms4.jpg[/IMG]

Flow numbers are for head without intake manifold and were taken on a Superflow bench at 28" H2O with a clayed intake radius but no exhaust pipe and a 4" diameter tube to simulate the cylinder wall:

 Lift...Int...Exh
 Inches CFM...CFM
 .......A3....A3
 0.200..161...111
 0.250..197...131
 0.300..234...147
 0.350..270...160
 0.400..298...172
 0.450..323...187
 0.500..345...199
 0.550..363...209
 0.600..370...219
 0.650..---...228
 0.700..---...234
 0.750..---...240
 0.800..---...247

As a comparison, here are the flow numbers for Mark's ported A3 heads, my unported but bowl blended and smoothed A3s and the high ported iron 4V heads pictured above:

 .......Marks A3.....My A3........Iron High Ported 4V  Lift...Int...Exh....Int...Exh....Int...Exh
 Inches CFM...CFM....CFM...CFM....CFM...CFM
 .......A3....A3.....A3....A3.....4V....4V
 0.025..13.9..11.6...15.7..11.7...13.4..14.3
 0.050..34.5..28.6...34.6..28.1...34.1..25.2
 0.100..67.1..57.4...65.5..56.7...69.9..52.9
 0.150..96.1..88.8...95.2..87.5...94.1..80.1
 0.200 135.4 110.0..129.2 109.8..121.0..99.4
 0.300 198.8 145.3..188.8 142.4..183.1 133.4
 0.400 245.5 169.1..242.8 167.0..225.5 158.4
 0.500 288.7 188.6..287.7 186.7..266.1 174.7
 0.600 320.6 206.2..321.4 204.4..300.8 182.6
 0.700 343.0 223.2..337.7 216.3..325.0 188.6
 0.800 353.4 234.1..----- -----..310.3 193.3

I ran the flow numbers through Dynomation to finalize the cam specs.  The goal was for the cam to peak at 6000+ RPM with best average power between
4000 and 6500 RPM.  Given the Pantera ZF 5 speed gear ratios and final drive ratio, this works well for a street driven hydraulic roller stroker Cleveland.  The cam is a custom hydraulic roller from Steve Demos using DM238HR intake lobes and DM242HR exhaust lobes.  Specs are 238/242 degrees duration @ 0.050", 0.620"/0.621" lift (with 1.73:1  ratio rockers), 110 degrees LSA, installed on a 109 ICL.  The cam was ground on a SADI (Selectively Austempered Ductile Iron) core so the MSD cast iron distributor gear could be retained.  To match the cam's requirements, Dave chose a set of PAC Racing p/n 12119X beehive springs set up to give an average of 143 lbs seat load and 360 lbs open load with a spring rate of
345 lbs/inch.  Seated height is 1.800" with an open height of 1.171" for 0.090" bind height clearance.

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http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l621/danielcjones2/351%20Cleveland%20Stuff/Hugh_Boyd_Caseys_408C/PAC_beehive_springs_zpslbjxxrql.jpg[/IMG]

The chrome-moly retainers and locators were also from PAC.  Valves are stainless from SI valves, part numbers 2151SG and 18112 (2.19" diameter intake, 1.71" diameter exhaust) and valve seals are positive Viton.  The roller rocker arms are Comp Cams Ultra Pro Magnum XD 8650 chrome-moly units (p/n 1830-16, 1.73:1 ratio, 7/16" stud).

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http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l621/danielcjones2/351%20Cleveland%20Stuff/Hugh_Boyd_Caseys_408C/Comp_Ultra_Pro_Magnum_XD_roller_rockers_zpsga5ykmqw.jpg[/IMG]

Pushrods are Trend 5/16" X 0.080", 8 inches long.  Lifters are Morel link bar hydraulic roller retrofits.

I thought we had a ported A331 and an unported A331 to test but forgot the ported A331 went on Mark Swarek's engine so we had only the unported intake.  Dave initially broke the engine in using his Holley 950 HP dyno carb then switched to a Bobby Oliver (Competition Carburetion in Nevada) custom built 740 CFM Holley.  I was hoping this engine would top 600 HP and was concerned the smallish carb might limit peak power so discussed the matter with Bobby.  He said the carb might indeed limit the power at peak over a larger carb but would have much better throttle response.  He was willing to build any size carb we wanted but, given that Hugh's engine was a street application with single plane intake and would never see over 6500 RPM, he recommended the 740.  Bobby built the carb from a Holley 82651 which begins life as a Holley 650HP.  The 650HP comes with straight leg boosters but Bobby installed down leg stepped booster and larger 1.750"
diameter throttle plates from a 750 Holley instead of the stock 1.688 diameter.  The 1.250 venturi diameter of the 650 is retained.  Jetting is
68 front and rear with a 6.5 Hg power valve front and rear to give better fuel control for street and road racing.

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http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l621/danielcjones2/351%20Cleveland%20Stuff/Hugh_Boyd_Caseys_408C/Bobby_Oliver_740_CFM_carb_zpsl0ioirhf.jpg[/IMG]

Dave did a back-to-back test against his 950HP and the 740 made the same peak power but picked up 10 lbs-ft of torque so the carb flat out works.
Dave made a wedge spacer to level the carb and removed it to gave it some porting to allow it to better match the intake which Dave noted had some ported in its past.

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http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l621/danielcjones2/351%20Cleveland%20Stuff/Hugh_Boyd_Caseys_408C/Leveling_intake_spacer_zps6qi5ilux.jpg[/IMG]

The blending made no real difference in power but did help the torque a few numbers.  The usual 1" tall spacers (open, 4 hole and HVH merge) were then tested with the 1" open being the best.

Thus far testing was done through my 4-into-1 shorty Pantera headers (from Precison Proformance) with 2 1/2" glass pack mufflers bolted directly to the collectors.  The last test was to remove the glass pack mufflers and run the Pantera shorty headers with a short piece of 2 1/2" diameter pipe.
The engine loved that change and picked up a little over 20 horsepower and
10 lbs-ft of torque.  Final readings were 603 horsepower at 6000 RPM and
552 lbs-ft of torque at 5300 RPM running on Mobil 93 octane gas.  Engine made best power at 30 degrees total timing.  Note the flat torque curve.
>From 4200 RPM up, the engine makes over 500 ft-lbs of torque:

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http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l621/danielcjones2/351%20Cleveland%20Stuff/Hugh_Boyd_Caseys_408C/Boyds%20best%20combo_zpsanmq45a6.jpg[/IMG]

Over 600 HP with a street hydraulic roller cam, a 740 CFM carb and shorty headers is pretty impressive.  Hugh will be running 180 degree headers which should improve torque and horsepower and, if you look closely at the graph, it appears the engine may not have peaked yet.

The overall parts list ended up looking like:

 4.03" bore Probe forged dish top pistons (p/n 14213-030, 1/16", 1/16" with 3/16" oil rings)  Mahle rings (ductile iron top, cast iron second, standard tension oil ring)  SCAT 4340 forged steel rods (6.0" long with 7/16" ARP bolts)  4.00" stroke Scat 4340 forged crankshaft, SVO (Windsor snout with 351C
mains) style crankshaft, neutrally balanced (p/n: 4-351C-4000-6000)  4.03" bore x 4.00" stroke = 408 cubic inches
 10.49:1 compression
 Ford Motorsport A331 intake manifold with leveling spacer by Dave McLain  Ford Motorsport E2ZM-6049-A3 high port aluminum Cleveland heads ported by Jon Carls  SI stainless valves, part numbers 2151SG and 18112 (2.19" diameter intake, 1.71" diameter exhaust)  Viton positive valve seals  Comp Cams Ultra Pro Magnum XD 8650 chrome-moly units (p/n 1830-16,  1.73:1 ratio, 7/16" stud)  Comp Cams guide plates  Trend pushrods 5/16" X 0.080", 8 inches long  Demos hydraulic roller cam (SADI core, 238/242 degrees duration @ 0.050", 0.620"/0.621" lift, 110 LSA)  Morel link bar hydraulic roller retrofit lifters  PAC Racing p/n 12119X beehive springs:
  143 lbs seat, 360 lbs open, 345 lbs/inch spring rate
  1.800" seated height, 1.171" open height, 0.090" bind height clearance  PAC chrome-moly retainers and locators  Rollmaster double roller timing set with integral spacer for the Cleveland block/SVO style crank combination  Aviad gated and baffled Pantera road race oil pan and matching pickup  Clevite CB663HN rod bearings (-1) and Federal Mogul 4925 M main bearings in a 1/2 under set to give rod clearance of 0.0022" and a  main bearing clearance of 0.0027" nominal with the Scat forged steel crank  Romac 351C SFI spec harmonic damper, neutral balance  Flowkooler aluminum water pump  Fel Pro gaskets (including head gaskets)  MSD Pro Billet mechanical advance distributor with cast iron distributor gear, 18 degrees initial timing, 30 degrees total  Autolite 3923 spark plugs (moderate heat range, gapped at 0.045")  Precision Proformance high port 4-into-1 Pantera headers (will get 180 degree high port headers when installed in car)  Custom 740 CFM Holley from Competition Carburetor  Mickey Thompson cast aluminum valve covers

Hugh plans to run a RobbMc Performance 351C mechanical fuel pump (available in versions capable of supporting 550 and 1100 HP) and remote air filters using a Spectre dual inlet air box.  I calculated he'll need around 130 square inches of K&N filter area.

Dan Jones

P.S. Some additional info from the post I put together for Mark Swarek's engine that apply to Hugh's engine.  The Ford Motorsport M-9439-A341 intake manifold gaskets for the A3 heads are no longer available.  Fel Pro makes two intake gasket sets for the Motorsport high port heads.  Though 1229 is listed for A3 heads, the port opening measures close to C302B heads (1.35"
x 2.20").  1265 is listed for B351 and C302B heads but the port size is listed as 1.35" x 2.22".  Both are "trim to fit" for the A3 heads.  P/N
1229 has round holes on both ends in case coolant is run through the intake (Windsor block application).  Both 1229 and 1265 of those are 0.060"
thick.  Fel Pro makes similar intake gaskets in thinner (p/n 12531 is 0.030", 12532 and 1253S2 are 0.045") and thicker (12535 is 0.120") sizes for Yates heads that could probably be adapted if you need to compensate for head or intake milling.  On the exhaust side, Fel Pro makes two different header gaskets for high port heads.  P/N 1417 is for the early exhaust bolt pattern and has a 1.94" diameter round port size.  P/N 1431 is for the later pattern and has a 1.81" diameter round port size.

You can see the evolution of the high port heads here:

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http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l621/danielcjones2/351%20Cleveland%20Stuff/351C_head_comparison_b_exh_cropped.jpg[/IMG]

On the left is an iron 4V modified with an aluminum high port exhaust port plate like they ran in Pro Stock.  You can see the lower edge of the original exhaust port (painted blue).  In the middle is an A3 port which is slightly higher with a more uniform round shape, instead of the weird area changes of the iron 4V port.  At the right is a ported C302B.  Note the C302B ports start out much smaller:

 [IMG]
http://s1127.photobucket.com/user/danielcjones2/media/351%20Cleveland%20Stuff/351C_head_comparison_b_int_cropped.jpg{/IMG
]

Based upon the iron Pro Stock 351C heads, the A3 ports were designed by Jack Roush, Bud Moore and Leonard Wood.  As cast, they have the largest intake port volume (241 cc's) and exhaust port volume (134 cc's) of the high port family of Ford Motorsport heads:

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http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l621/danielcjones2/351%20Cleveland%20Stuff/highport_comparison_cropped.jpg[/IMG]

There's a slight bend on intake port walls to accommodate the pushrods and the raised floor increases port radius, straightening the turn for incoming mixture and minimizing fuel separation.